tv Talking Books Cookery Specials BBC News October 8, 2018 2:30am-3:01am BST
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on the campaign trail last month. he is ahead of the left—wing workers party candidate, fernando haddad. the next round of votes will take place at the end of october. climate scientists say the world must act rapidly to prevent a dangerous rise in its temperature. the intergovernmental panel says massive changes will be needed to keep global warming to below 1.5 degrees celsius. these include changes to the food we eat and the way energy is generated. police in turkey are continuing their investigations into the disappearance of the saudi arabian journalist jamal khashoggi from the kingdom's consulate in istanbul. saudi arabia has denied mr khashoggi was murdered in the consulate when he went to collect documents for his forthcoming marriage. the scottish national party leader, nicola sturgeon, has said her party's 35 mps would vote in favour of another eu referendum if given the opportunity to do so at westminster.
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her comments are a boost to the campaign for a so—called people's vote, although the first minister said the real solution for scotland was independence. our scotland editor sarah smith reports. calls for a second referendum on the terms of brexit were accompanied through central london today by hundreds of dogs. their owners delighted to hear the snp now support their cause. while labour has not ruled out supporting a so—called people's vote, theresa may has said it will not happen. nicola sturgeon told the andrew marr show that, faced with a choice between a cobbled—together brexit deal or no deal at all, mps should look at an alternative. there's no doubt the calls for a second referendum would grow in those circumstances, and i've said before we would not stand in the way of a second referendum, a so—called people's vote.
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i think the snp mps would undoubtedly vote for that proposition. they would — that's a very important moment. the snp are the largest uk party to party to commit to a second referendum on brexit, with 35 mps now prepared to support it. but, for many nationalists, that is not the referendum they really care about. tens of thousands joined a march in edinburgh yesterday in support of a second referendum on scottish independence. opinion polls published today suggest support is growing, but the question is when to call another vote. as soon as possible, because we're out of europe by april. when would it be right to have another independence referendum? two years after brexit. i think then we'll see the damage that it's done to scotland's economy. i understand why there's a delay, because you need to find out
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what the terms of brexit are before we have a second referendum. nicola sturgeon promised an update on the timing of an independence referendum this autumn. now, she says we must wait until we know the details of any brexit deal. the challenge is how to maintain her supporters‘ enthusiasm as she keeps them waiting. sarah smith, bbc news. now on bbc news, it is talking books. hello, and welcome to talking books, with me, gavin esler. we're in london where it's no exaggeration to say, some 30 years ago, the food was pretty terrible. nowadays, it's home to plenty of michelin starred restaurants. one of those responsible for this transformation is the restauranteur and author, rick stein. i'm going to meet him to find out how his love of simple ingredients and travel informs his writing and his cooking. in restaurant kitchens, everything's all prepped up before you start. this is a way of cooking fish which i really like, which is actually cooking it under the salamander. it's quite a sort of
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pure way of cooking. so there we go. rick stein, hello and welcome. you have, as i say, written a lot of books. do you find the act of writing quite difficult? because you did at first, didn't you, the very first one you did? yeah, my very first book was called english seafood cookery and i called myself richard stein, because "rick" sounded a bit racy, a bit american. was it difficult to write that one? yes, it was, because now i have people helping me cook recipes, so the books i do now, i work with a girl called portia, and we talk food all day long, we cook together and then i write up the recipes, but in those days, i did everything myself, and the only way i could test the recipes, really, we used to have these literary lunches of seafood, which is when i had a load of recipes i'd just got down for the book and get, actually, the waiting staff in, to sort of try the recipes
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and see what they said. but it's also difficult because of the sort of discipline of writing. it took me about two years. as i then discovered, the only way to do it is to do a little bit each day, particularly when i did the autobiography, you just have to say i'm going to do 1,000 words a day and you end up doing 500. and the other thing i sort of realised after a while is it doesn't not matter what you write down the first time. i always thinks it's a bit like plasterers, you come and you do the first coat and it looks rough because you know you're going to come back and do the second one. and that, to my way of thinking, that's the way to do it. because, once you've got it down on paper, it sort of assumes a life of its own. and i think half the thing about writing is just sort of thinking this is no good. my thoughts are just crazy. but what actually — the first book i did, the cookery book, it won a prize, it won a food prize — it was the glenfiddich award at the time — and i couldn't believe that i won a prize for it because it just never occurred to me that a) anybody would be interested
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about a small fish restaurant in padstow, and b) anybody would be interested in me, and c) i couldn't write anyway. i think what i learnt then was that, of course they'd be interested, because the next generation's coming on, and you are endlessly, the industry, the literature, and books and everything, notjust books, but film, always needs younger people coming up. and that's what i didn't get at the time. i thought, "why me?" and i'm sure a lot of young people feel the same way. your autobiography, under a mackerel sky — you'd better explain the title first. well, i didn't come up with it. it was actually someone at ebury books, one of the editors, but i thought it was such a good one because, when my father died, and i left england rather hurriedly, i was walking out of a pub in notting hill gate, and there was a mackerel sky and i put it in the book, and a mackerel sky is a sign of sort of big change ahead, which indeed was the case for me. i didn't name it that, but it's just the best name possible as far as i'm concerned, because obviously a lot
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of it is about my life as a seafood cook, so it worked a treat. the thing that really struck me about your book was how rootless you were at first. you just didn't really know who you were. there's a great quote right at the start from james thurber, "all men should strive to learn before they die what they're running from and to, and why." i love james thurber, and those fables. the book was called further fables of our time, itjust has these little bits of sort of... i think a lot of comedians are highly intelligent and highly thoughtful people and, obviously, he was a great writer. but really it is, and i think life is a bit of a quest to find out who you are, and what you're doing and why. and i think, certainly in my case, because i had quite an upsetting experience when my father committed suicide, when i was 17, 18, i sort of feel i've been
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on the run ever since. if something like that happens in your family, you are a bit apt to go off the rails, but also to work a bit harder than anybody else to try and prove you are somebody because it's such a sot of confidence zapper, i think. maybe we could get a reading from you of the start of the book, or when you're talking about... in many ways it was a happy childhood, quite a privileged childhood, in fact, but you write very movingly. and perhaps you could read a little bit of how your mother protected you from some of the things that were going on. yeah. "my mother spent much of my childhood trying to hide the worst from me..." this was about my father's illness. "i merely knew that my father was someone that i was scared of. most of the time, i was uneasy in his presence. years later i did a television programme on manic depression with stephen fry.
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stephen, who is himself bipolar, said in that programme, that in his depressive stage, he felt completely useless. i think that's how my father must have felt. most of my life, i've had to fight against a creeping conviction that i might be completely useless too. and at such times, i can understand that my father wouldn't have wanted me to be like him. but the result was that he could be very tough on me." that's taken quite a lot of time to work through. also, my mother was very good after my father's death about it. when you think of somebody being incredibly sort of low, you just think, i am so ordinary, such a completely non—person, i don't want my darling son to be like me. nowadays, we are more familiar with — some of the taboos have been broken about talking about mental illness. it certainly was not true when you were a child. was that difficult to write? i suppose not because he's dead. i've been very lucky that
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all my family have been very supportive, my brothers and my sister, in me saying things like that because i think they all feel the same way about it. he's dead, my mother's dead, and i think it's — i've never felt that i shouldn't say because everybody, there is probably not a family in this world that hasn't got some skeleton in the cupboard, but something that they'd rather people not know about, but i think it's important that the people do know about it, that we all suffer, in some way, somebody with mental illness, probably. i'm sort of writing about life, not writing about specific circumstances. you go through some of the jobs you did, really menialjobs. you were sweeping up, literally sweeping up, onion, then there's another passage perhaps you could read too of how you found out what had happened to your father and, again, this is very, very moving.
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i suppose, ijust — at the time, i wanted to experience what it was like doing quite sort of tough and boring manual labour. i'd been reading a lot of hemingway at the time i think. all the time i was that age, i was pitying myself, saying, how would i cope in this or that situation? "i was sweeping the road outside the natural history museum, when my flatmate tim drove up in his land rover. ‘i think you should get in‘, he said in a tight voice. he then told me that my father had died. i often think i have no memory for detail, but i can remember every colour, every hue of that moment. the greyness of the sky, the blue—green of the land rover, the darker green of its seats, the coat i was wearing, a brown raincoat, short and, i thought, italian—looking, which i had worn with such swagger at school with the blue scarf, which meant i'd been awarded my colours for rugby. the coat was showing its age and i had tied it round with a bit of parcel twine to keep out the wind on london's streets."
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that's quite not a bad bit of writing, is it? basically, i was just thinking, if somebody was to analyse that, and basically what i'm doing is using the slight patheticness of me to outline how i actually felt underneath. you discovered that your father had jumped off a cliff, and then, in a curious way, did that liberate you to go off and do the hemingway thing, be the macho guy, going off to australia? i suppose in some sense it liberated me, yes. but — i was awfully confused. i still think, even at my age now, that was the making of me and partly because i did it on my own. if you're on your own, then there's a lot of times when you're going to feel incredibly lonely, but there are also times when you so crave, as a result of the loneliness and the craving to find other people, that you do make lots of friends. sometimes that didn't work out too
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well but other times, it really did. i think as a right of passage, it's not a bad one to be able to cope as a 19—year—old and realise you can. as you can see, i'm the clumsiest cook known to man, which i think is why some people quite like me cooking because i'm sort of more like them. you're relatable. yeah. this is what chefs do, right, that's coriander, but rather than chop it like you or i would, they slice it neatly. half the time, i say i don't want that, it looks too bloody smart. there's a lovely passage again, in this book, in which you say, "all the cooking i've ever done since is, in some way, an attempt to recapture some of the flavours of the cooking at home when i was a boy. pollock fish cakes, dazzling fresh mackerel, just put under the grill with a sprig of fennel, are the best i've ever eaten." i mean, throughout your books, it's simple food simply done, but in a way which is elaborate in the taste. is that a fair kind of summary?
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it is. i just think that for so many people, if you've had a nice childhood, it is recreating childhood memories in so many things that you do, in my case with food. that's why i've always tried to keep everything i do, fish cooking, simple. a) because my mother cooked things simple and i've always been quite supportive of british cuisine, even when everybody thought it was the worst in the world. i was doing some filming in france once — this is about ten years ago — and this girl said, "you eat a lot of boiled meats in england, don't you?" isaid, "no!" but i think it's sort of, really it's about simple cooking of really excellent ingredients. that's basically what i have done all my life. one of the interesting things you also say in your autobiography
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is, your mother was a great cook but, for instance, you write about making bouillabaise and how hard it was to get the ingredients, you say, "the olive oil, perhaps from the chemist." is that where you got it? well, yeah, that was the only place you could get it because that was the only thing the english used it for, unblocking your ears. no wonder the french thought we ate boiled meat. hake is a fish if you go to western europe, france or spain, you eat a lot of it. in the uk we catch it but we sell it abroad. i always get a bit amused, because a lot of cornish people think the spanish have got all of our hake quota and nicking our hake, especially around cornwall, there is lots there, especially in the irish sea. we don't eat it anyway, so don't be so dog in the manger about it! it's extraordinary to me. it's a member of the cod family and very much like cod, a bit softer than cod but it comes
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in nice, thick steaks. if anything i think it's a bit tastier than cod. for the spanish it's their favourite fish. we are very conservative in our taste. need somebody to come along and change it. one of the things — you say this repeatedly in a number of your books — the test is, would i cook this at home? and i think that is why people like your books. because it's not "please stir this risotto for the next 25 minutes." it's something that we would actually do. and the tips are just as important as the recipes. that's very nice of you to say that. i think it is absolutely right, because sometimes when you look at cookery books you think, christ, who's going to bother with that, you know? and that was very much the case in the ‘80s and early ‘90s, and a lot of chefs came along with tremendous reputations and just put the recipes they used in their kitchens in books, you know? fortunately everybody has
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become a lot, you know, the processes have become a lot more simple, because half the time nobody would cook them anyway. most kitchens have got every stock known to man in the fridge, and everything all prepped up, so you've got onions, tomatoes, everything chopped up and ready to go. you want to think of a new recipe, you just get it out of the fridge and off you go. i love those sort of books where it's like "meals in ten and a half minutes." you think, for whom? yes, exactly. you also wrote "i sort of liked cooking and i sort of didn't." what was the "didn't" bit? i didn't really like the hours. i never did. you know, i had my sister who lived in london, in my main years that i was cooking, and much of the time there was only two or three other people in the kitchen. iwas thinking, god, you know, she lives in islington, and there were parties every weekend, and i was always stuck in the kitchen. that's what i didn't like.
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my older sisterjaney, who sadly died in the mid—1980s, she said to me, when i would be saying to her it was so boring to spend every winter in padstow, she said, there's no substitute for really good fresh fish and people will end up beating a path to your door. and they did. the other thing that runs through your book and your career is your love of cornwall. you are really rooted in that place. every time i come down the hill into padstow and look across the estuary i think, "this is where i want to be." i think it is very human that as much as i believe i would love to spend all my life there, i would get bored. but as a place to spend most of my childhood and most of my adult life, it's just my spiritual home, really. it's very difficult to sort of put your finger on what's so special about it. i suppose it's always because it's
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this peninsula jutting out into the atlantic, it's a bit cut off from the rest of the world and we all like to think of it as being cut off. we like this idea that you keep still bumping into cornish people who have never been across the tamar, the river that separates cornwall from devon. i mean, that's really good. it's lovely, in this sort of mad world that people still feel so rooted in such a place. and the fact that although i have lived there for over a0 years, i will never be considered a local. you know, no chance of that. did you find the business side of it quite tricky? because there is a lot of, you know, those people who love to create in the kitchen, and then actually making the finances add up and being able to pay your way is a different skill, isn't it? i think i was sort of lucky, because i originally opened the building, the seafood restaurant, as a nightclub. i bought it with a friend of mine, my best friend johnny, off a guy who had been
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running it as a nightclub. a nightclub in padstow, i might have said this in the book, is like an opera house in the middle of the amazon. certainly in the ‘70s. we were a couple of nice boys in our early 20s, we couldn't run it properly and it was closed down, really, because it was declared an unruly house or something like that and the police took away our licenses, the booze licence. i was faced with imminent bankruptcy and the restaurant was the only thing i could do and my fear at the time was of going bust again. we didn't go bust because my mother and his mother bailed us out. but it is a salutary lesson, for anybody who has gone bankrupt, it's such a terrible thing to happen to you. i thought, i am never going to let that happen again. so i have always been first and foremost about making profit
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and that has always stuck with me. i am not particularly good at figures but i know that if you keep piling lobster on a plate for your customerjust because you like your customer, it's not going to happen. how have our tastes changed? the french person who said we all eat boiled meat, and over—boiled cabbage is the other thing, they have certainly changed. that is why when you write books about mexico and india and travelling in europe, they sell, because of what the british are more open to now. yes, it is really down to a mix, i think, of obviously much cheaper travel and available travel, but also a rise in, sort of — i would put it, for want of another word, leisurejournalism. when i started cooking in the late ‘70s there were not many restaurants in the uk, and not many journalists writing about food.
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and all activities, whether it is what you are doing in your home or whatever, has become part of everybody‘s life. and everybody likes to cook. what i always find extraordinary is, why wouldn't anybody like to cook? it's what we have to do every day. everybody likes sex, why wouldn't we like food too? it's bleeding obvious. let me take you up on that. do you sometimes wonder whether the more cookery programmes there are, the more books written about cookery, the less we actually cook, because we're spending all our time watching you on tv and ordering takeaway pizza? ithink... i mean, i know it's a question, but you are actually stating something which i think is fairly true. that is a problem. but there are certainly more people cooking now.
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one of the problems is, it is a bit like being a teacher, you have to keep one step ahead of your students. but i think that's great. people are so, sort of, when you talk to people who are really into cooking, it's a lovely thing. also, my second or third book came out, i first did the penguin one, when the second one came out, i remember a guy coming up to me in a restaurant, in the conservatory at the front of the restaurant, saying it changed his life. he said, "i would have never thought of cooking before." he saw my first series and he said he loved cooking now. i think for me that was a tremendous gratification, that a lot of men started thinking it was ok to cook. you do say in one of your books that recipes are also designed to use brought—in products, from mayonnaise to chilli sauce. has your view of that changed, how you make stuff? it has, really, because when i first did the first book, it was harder to get things.
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but i remember in the very first book i did a lengthy recipe for making your own puff pastry. and when i finally had to sort of write, "you can actually get really good puff pastry in the supermarket," i thought, i don't really want to be saying this. it wasn'tjust me. i remember delia smith doing a book about cutting corners and buying things, and i think it'sjust that we've all changed. in the early days you had to make everything yourself but now, you know, because the supply of good quality — notjust fresh produce, but things like stocks and sauces — is so advanced and it's so easy to get good sauces, so why not bring them into a good recipe? do you have a sense of mission about these books? i'm afraid so! you're an evangelist? iam. i think if you care for something you end up being a bit of an evangelist anyway, because you're just saying, "why can't they see this?" do you sometimes think,
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looking back at your books, tv presenting, the business that you run, all the people that you give work to, all the other people you give pleasure to for your books, we're sitting here by the river thames, on a beautiful day, the rootless kid who didn't really know what he was doing and was sweeping the streets — you have come quite a long way. yeah, i suppose so. but i sort of... i think the problem is that you sort of think somebody‘s going to find you out. you're a bluffer, really? yeah, in some curious way. on that happy note, i think we will leave it. rick stein, thank you very much. it has been really nice, gavin. it's really nice being interviewed by somebody who knows how to do it properly. look at that. i'd be happy to eat that. good morning.
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it was a weekend of weather conditions on saturday in scotland and northern ireland we had this guy and northern ireland we had this guy and sunshine and by sunday replaced by cloudy, will wet and windy weather at times. so much so we had a few inches of rainfall across. on to show you the rainfall sunday because the rain will be across scotla nd because the rain will be across scotland for monday and possibly into tuesday as well. it will be relentless if we stretch out over to the atlantic you can see this work whether that will continue to feed in across the far north—west. this morning we continue the north—south divide. the south—westerly will a lwa ys divide. the south—westerly will always blue cloud along the west and
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sunshine further east. refrain in a little more detail. the middle of the afternoon some will be heavy across the western isles and into western scotland for a few days after it we could see the possibility of localised flooding. notice windy sunday but still notable south—west wind. more cloud to northern ireland that should sin and break in places especially in sheltered eastern areas across england and wales. as a consequence, the temperatures may be up at this degree also from what we thought we can. high possible of 18 degrees. as we move from monday into tuesday it is almost a repeat performance. we still have a plume of moist air stretching across the far north—west, bringing more heavy rain at times. south and west we will see the south—westerly flow with a little less cloud around on tuesday that it will be warmer again. highs of 20 degrees, above average for this time of year. tuesday night
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into wednesday we could see the wind light and into wednesday we could see the wind lightand a into wednesday we could see the wind light and a touch and produced patchy mist and for. hopefully that will be enough of a breeze to lift that readily in the wind will change direction slowly but surely and that will dry the weather front in scotla nd will dry the weather front in scotland a little further north and allow for more sunshine to come through. at the same time, more warmth with a dry source from the near continent. on wednesday temperatures could reach 19 or 20 in scotland. 23, 24. not bad for this time of year. still dry and pleasa ntly warm time of year. still dry and pleasantly warm on thursday but a chance of wet weather to come on friday. take care. welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. my name is lewis vaughanjones. our top stories: brazil's right—wing congressman jair bolsonaro takes a commanding lead in the presidential election. but he will face a run—off with leftist rival fernando haddad. saving lives, saving endangered species.
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climate scientists warn we need immediate and far—reaching action to prevent a dangerous rise in global temperatures. tributes are paid to the 20 people killed in a car crash involving a stretch limousine in the us state of new york. and, after their dramatic cave rescue, the boys from thailand are back on the football field as special guests at the youth olympics in argentina.
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