to the united nations, nikki haley, following her shock resignation. the move fuelled speculation that she has presidential ambitions. but in her resignation letter, she said she would support his re—election bid in 2020. hurricane michael has strengthened further as it bears down on america's gulf coast. forecasters have warned of three—metre storm surges and winds approaching 200 kilometres an hour. mass evacuations are under way — and alabama, florida and georgia have declared states of emergency. florida's governor has described the hurricane as a monster storm which kept getting more dangerous. turkish authorities are set to search the saudi consulate in istanbul, as the investigation into missing journalist jamal khashoggi gathers pace. turkey's president has challenged the saudi authorities to produce the evidence that he's safe. you are up—to—date on the headlines.

now on bbc news — hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. almost two billion of the world's people are muslim, and yet half of them, the female half, have traditionally played little or no role in the institutions of theirfaith. that is changing, albeit very slowly. my guest today, sherin khankan, became scandinavia's first female imam when she opened the mariam mosque in copenhagen. her focus on women's rights in a 21st century brand of islamic practice has stirred controversy and debate far beyond denmark's borders. is islam ready to empower women? sherin khankan, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you, stephen. you are one of europe's very few female imams, but you're also a writer, a social activist. what do you see as your most important role? actually, i'm not one of a few. there are actually quite a lot of female imams around the world, also in europe, so it's a myth that female imams is a totally new phenomenon. well, how many? we've had female imams in china since 1820, in the us, in canada, in germany they have a very large community for female imams. halima krausen in hamburg, rabeya muller in cologne, and in berlin they have started a mosque also with female imams, and in munster they have also communities, and also they started a centre for islamic theology, where there in the future they're about to educate a generation of female imams.

in switzerland as well. in somalia they also have... i take the point, there are some. yes. within the scope of this vast community of worldwide muslims, it is still an extraordinarily unusual thing to be. but i just wonder whether for you it is the religious practice that's most important, or the social activism that goes with it? it's both. actually, the worshipping of god, it is only 10% of the work that we do in the mariam mosque, because we have the friday prayer. but, besides that, 90% of our work is centred around human rights work. recently i have developed, together with the group of activists in denmark, nine theses on muslim reform based on islamic principles ofjustice, and they are, of course, the women's right to service female imams. today it is seen by too many muslims as something very rare and strange, and before we started the mosque two years ago in denmark the majority of muslims in denmark

didn't even know that female imams was a possibility. and why? it's because we have normalised these patriarchal structures within religious institutions for decades. so you see it as yourjob in the mariam mosque to espouse a sort of feminist version of islam, is that right? i do believe that we all should be feminist. feminism is about giving men and women equal opportunities. so, to me, that's the fundament of everything. i do believe that in the mariam mosque we are fighting to challenge these patriarchal structures, and we also want to give women the possibility of leading the prayer, disseminating new narratives on islam in europe. and would you accept that your faith, islam, is very far from being gender equal, is riven with misogyny? yes, unfortunately islam

is being interpreted discriminatory and, of course, this affects women all over the world. and because of that, we would like to give a rereading of the koran with a focus on gender equality. when you start a mosque with female imams, you meet a lot of opposition, and people get upset because you change the structure and then you change the power balance. so one of the questions that we often get, as many other women who are seeking to change the power balances concerning women's rights, it's the question about legitimacy, and our legitimacy is based on knowledge, it's based on the needs in our society and it's based on islamic theology. let's tease that out a little bit and let's get to your background.

many people watching and listening will not know your own background. it is fascinating. you come from a mixed marriage. your father was a muslim from syria, who went into exile in scandinavia. your mother is finnish and a christian. so, for you, in many ways, being brought up in scandinavia in a mixed marriage, choosing to be muslim is absolutely about that, it's about a choice you made. exactly. and i wonder why, as a teenager, you chose very deliberately to take the muslim faith? i took the choice as a late teenager. when i was around 19 my journey started. i studied islam at the university. i went to syria. i did my thesis on sufism and islamic activism, and when i was sitting in the mosque belonging to the grand mufti of syria, at that time, in 1999, just before bashar al—assad took over power, i was wondering what would it be if the mufti was a woman, or if the imam was a woman. what would it sound like, and could we change or challenge these patriarchal structures if we were disseminating new narratives on islam? so, you talk about legitimacy.

i don't know whether you are a fluent arabic speaker? i don't know how well—versed in the koran you became as a young woman in your 20s. did you, like so many muslim scholars, go to a madrasa, to a religious college, did you immerse yourself in the koran for years? because a lot of people around the world, muslims around the world, will say to themselves, who is this woman? what does she really know about my religion? its theology, the koran, the hadith and everything else. i am a sociologist of religion, a theologist in islam, a specialist in sufism and islamic activism in the middle east, i studied arabic language at copenhagen university, i studied arabic language in egypt and ultimately in syria and damascus. sorry to interrupt, i just want... arabic language is a very difficult language and i am still on that journey.

0k. you talk about egypt. i wonder, for example, what do you think the revered islamic scholars of al—azhar university would make of your claims to be redefining a non—patriarchal, non—misogynist islam ? as in any university, there are mixed views. at al—azhar university, concerning the concept of female imams, you will find scholars say that female imams is a possibility, it is legal. three out of four islamic schools allow female imams leading the prayers for other women. so it's actually not that controversial, even though they don't think it is a great idea, they still have to accept it. they have to accept it because it was part of our islamic tradition. in the first house mosque in the islamic civilisation, that was the house mosque of the prophet muhammad in modena in 600, women were leading the prayer for other women in his own house mosque, that was aisha and umm salama, after his death they led the prayer for other women in the mosque. there are also hadith stories that are the written narratives of what we think the prophet said and did.

so there are also truthful narratives about the prophet visiting the house of a very famous woman, she was famous because of her way of recycling the koran and her knowledge of islam and he asked her to lead the prayerfor his household. so we have at least three stories connecting women to leading the prayer and being female imams, so it is not a new phenomenon. it is part of our islamic tradition. and because of this, the scholars at al—azhar have to accept this is actually a part of the tradition. you say they have to accept it, but it seems to me in all sorts of ways what you interpret as the right path for your religion varies a great deal from the accepted path that so many muslims around the world regard as the convention and the orthodoxy of their religion. i am thinking of the interpretation of sharia law, with regard to divorce, to property rights, all sorts of ways in which, frankly, women appear to be treated

as second—class to men. and this is what we want to change. we want to change the practice, the way sharia is being practised and manifested in our world today. today muslim women do not even have the basic right to islamic divorce. that is also one of the nine theses of reform that we are going to implement. do you... sorry to interrupt again, but do you do divorces in a different way in the mariam mosque? yes, we give women the right to divorce. in the islamic marriage contract, it is stated very clearly that muslim women have the right to divorce, polygamy is forbidden and if mental or physical violence occur, the marriage is annulled. we implemented the women's right to divorce in the contract. but are muslim men in copenhagen signing on to this? unfortunately there are only two islamic communities in denmark and we are one of them who give the women the right to divorce in the marriage contract and this

is what we want to change. we want to standardise the practice where male imams implement the right to divorce in the contract, and it is really crucial because today there are women all over the world who are trapped in violent marriages and they cannot even get the islamic divorce because the husband refuses. so we have to implement that right. you keep telling me we have to do this, we need to do that, and i understand and ifeel your passion, but the truth is it isn't gonna happen unless you take the bulk of the muslim community with you, and before we get to the outside world, let's stick with denmark. i think i nearly 300,000 muslims in denmark, roughly 5% of the population. yes. you in your mariam mosque, which has garnered a huge amount of publicity, but it hasn't actually collected a huge number of members and followers. i mean, you only have about 150 members of your congregation. yes, but that is in denmark.

that is my point. you're not drawing in the vast majority of danish muslims. actually it is not quite true, because the effect of our work is more than these 150 members. we have implemented the woman's right to divorce, we are performing interfaith marriages, i will come back to that later. we have given women the possibility of leading the prayer, giving the hudba, disseminating new messages on islam in europe, and we are changing things. sometimes we believe that it takes the masses to change a fundament, or to change our structure, or to change the future, but actually sometimes a small group of people are actually able to create change. and we had a visitor from indonesia, who was the grand imam from indonesia, who represents 200,000 muslim devotees, every friday they come for his friday prayer. he came to the mariam mosque, he blessed the mosque and he said that female imams is a blessing and a necessity. so we have a lot of support inside denmark and also abroad. but to become a member you have to sign up and you have to pay and you have to dedicate yourself. so you cannot really conclude

anything from a specific number of members. i understand that you are saying that your reach goes far beyond the physical boundaries of copenhagen and your mosque‘s congregation, and i also understand that by writing this book, for example, ‘women are the future of islam', you are sending the message which, through the dissemination of the book, is reaching an awful lot of people. yes. but you're fighting against a sort of, huge weight of muslim opinion, but notjust opinion, but also, frankly, resources. i'm thinking, for example, of saudi arabia. yes. which invests billions and billions of dollars in mosque building, in madrassas, in education, right across the muslim world, indeed in europe as well as in many different parts of the world. yes, that's true.

it goes without saying that wahabi, the saudi interpretation of islam, is a million miles from yours, so how can you compete? it is not a matter of competition, it is a matter of establishing a solid alternative to wahabism, to salafism, to islamism, it is about establishing this solid alternative. we are actually not here to delegitimise islamist groups, or traditionalist groups, or conservative groups. we are here to create... that is exactly what you are doing, accusing them of misogyny, of systematic discrimination. but the thing is how do you do it? how do you deliver your criticism? i always deliver my criticism in a very nuanced form and i think that is really crucial. and the thing is here that i am here to create an alternative, i am here to serve a new generation of muslims in denmark and abroad who have some acute needs when it comes to islam and how to practise islam in the 21st century.

but you're talking about radical change within your faith, and within its systems and institutions. you can't achieve that, frankly, by a softly—softly message saying "i still want to be friends with the saudis." you will have to be a revolutionary. i do not want to be friends with the saudis. i was talking about the conservatives or the traditionalists, because the majority of muslims in denmark are traditionalist or conservative. do you agree with this, these are interesting words from the former state department envoy of president 0bama to muslims around the world. at the end of her posting, she said this, after considering what she had seen in the muslim world. she said that saudi influence was pernicious and pervasive. the us must stop supporting

extremist imams. do you share that deep concern about the way in which saudi money is influencing the muslim world? yes, i do share that concern and this is why i have established this alternative. we want to create alternatives, we want to disseminate new narratives on islam in europe and abroad and we are not only talking... this is about creating change on the ground. and if we look at the changes that we have made so far, let me give you an example. the necessity of interfaith marriages. today, muslim women cannot marry outside their faith unless the man converts to islam, unless you are a cultural muslim and you do not really practice islam. so this is actually an acute dilemma. we have couples coming from norway, sweden, denmark, france, even the uk to get married in the maryam mosque because we are able to serve them and we are rereading the koran with a focus on gender equality,

allowing muslim women to marry non—muslims. in tunisia, they changed the law last year, in december 2017, so it's also legally possible to marry outside islam for a woman. it has always been a possibility for the man because it is stated clearly in the koran that a muslim man can marry ajew, or a christian, or a non—muslim, but the opposite is not stated clearly. but it is also not stated that a woman can't. so we use that as our legitimacy. but you've got another problem. there are many people in denmark, politicians of the right and the far right, secularists, those who have a deep suspicion of islam in all of its forms, who look at you and feel that you represent a danger because you appear to make islam more acceptable to a danish mindset when, in fact, they say, many of your core attitudes are just as alien to danish values as the so—called islamists. it's a very little minority who are giving that statement.

let's go through a view of their specific points about you. you claimed at the beginning of the maryam mosque experiment, or the founding of the mosque, you said you were going to have mixed friday prayers. exactly. but then you backed off that. friday prayers, i don't believe you do a mixed prayer now. that's true. but i didn't back off. when you create a community, people come and theyjoin you. that's the power of democracy. so the majority, they voted for a women's mosque on friday, because they wanted to establish a magical sphere with women only, where women could say what they want and express themselves. and in the beginning, i was really sad about the decision. you had to back off a little bit. i didn't back off. i accepted it. you have to accept the majority. that's the power of democracy.

let's go to another point... i have to make the conclusion because the conclusion is vital. when you want to create change, you have to understand the art of nourishing. if you burn all the bridges behind you, you can not be a bridge builder. interesting point. i realised later that because we have a women's mosque only on friday and all other days it's for men — we have men coming from different countries to pray because we are centred in the middle of copenhagen as the only mosque. very... but my point was that if you want to create change, you have to do it slowly and wisely and we can do the real revolutions, like the interfaith marriages, giving women the right to divorce, we can do these things because we are actually on safe theological ground because nobody can criticise us. but you are making such interesting points and i need to pick away at them a little bit. yes. your philosophy is fascinating. move slowly, you say, never burn bridges and in that way, you create change. where do you stand on gay marriage? surely as a dane, who believes

in an open and tolerant society, i imagine you would support the notion of gay wedding, yet you won't allow them in your mosque. why? personally i favour gay marriage, but i am part of a mosque and we cannot carry all of the battles on our shoulders. if we were doing gay marriages at this stage... but what about your core principles? sometimes it's not a matter of core principles, it's a matter of understanding that you are a part of a greater movement. that what we are doing in order to serve the women's cause is something greater, and we cannot carry all the battles on our shoulders because we will lose our legitimacy within a second. so, so... this is such an interesting and difficult balancing act. so, luckily, there are other mosque communities around the world who do gay marriages and i am so happy for them. so i hear from you that it is a delicate and sensitive balancing act. let's just take one more example. yes. a number of danish people, who are your political opponents

on the right, regard your stand after the crisis over the cartoon in 2005... 2006. i think it was 2005 it first came out. but anyway, that cartoon became a sort of litmus test in denmark for whether you were supportive of free speech, tolerance of all opinion or whether, in the case of many muslims in the country, you said that the offensiveness of that cartoon to you trumped all else. it seemed to many... no. you said... that's not my quotation. i'm not quoting you, but this is your quotation. used more delicately." yes. you said, "where is the dialogue that the mocker, the cartoonist in this case, is claiming to establish" ? it sounded to many danes as if you were defending the right of muslims in denmark not to be offended and were not defending the rights of the cartoonist.

0n the other hand i was nuancing the debate. i said that we have to understand that we are living world, and if you are living in a globalised world you have to ask yourself do you want a dialogue with people? they said they wanted a dialogue with muslims in denmark. so if you truly wish for a dialogue, you have to ask the essential question, what is important to you and why? and freedom of speech is an essential value to the majority of muslims in the world. and the sacredness of the koran is also an essential value to many muslims in the world. so we have a group of muslims who have different principles that they value at the same time. my point is that we have to understand that we have people among us who have values that are essential to them at the same time. so it's not a matter of favouring the sacredness of the koran over freedom of speech. it's a matter of understanding that if you want to enter the dialogue,

you have to be — you have understand that people have different principles of what is valuable at the same time. all right. i do get the sense throughout this that you are trying to find a very fine line to conduct your work. yes. but, but, yes... hang on. but you've written the book and it is all about how you want to see a feminist take within islam. and i understand that. but you say at the end in a very searingly honest passage at the end that this comes at a price. this is not easy and we have to pay a price if we really want to fight for our principles and values. and you paid a very personal price, which you reveal at the end of the book. it cost you your marriage. to a man who you characterise as a good man... yes. but he was of pakistani—danish origin, his view of his religion was different to yours. he felt that your fight for what you believed in was dangerous to your family, and in the end it seems

it ruined your marriage. was it worth it? yes, it was. i think that there are so many people who support the revolution and they want the changes. they just don't want their daughter or their wife to be a head of the revolution. and somebody has to lead the revolution. to me it was not a matter of choice, i didn't make a choice. because i placed myself at the head of the revolution and it's impossible to withdraw when you have just started it. but that has a cost that goes beyond you. your husband, of course, your children, your wider family. that must be something that weighs heavy. of course it does. and you're at peace with the decisions you have taken, the fight you are fighting? i'm at peace and my four children are very proud of what i'm doing, and i have a family who is really supportive. so i am at peace. fascinating.

thank you very much forjoining us. thank you. hello. we'll start the forecast with some sunshine and end with something quite different, but for wednesday, the sunshine we saw on tuesday across england and wales extends across northern ireland and scotland. finally, we say goodbye to this rain bearing front. however, it's all change again by the time we get to friday. potentially, some disruptive, wet and windy weather pushing across the uk, but we'll talk about that in more detail in just a moment's time. first to wednesday, which is going to be a fine, dry day, plenty of

sunshine across the uk. there will be a little bit more cloud across northern and western scotland first thing, it will soon thin and break. fairly noticeable south or south—east breeze. you can see how that warmth extends across england and wales into northern ireland and scotland. temperatures widely in the high teens, low 20 celsius, perhaps even 23 or 2a for east anglia and south—east england. the skies will turn hazy across the south—west and southern england later in the day. outbreaks of rain pushing their way northwards overnight into south—west england, wales, northern ireland, the midlands. northwest england probably staying mainly dry across scotland and the east of england. look at these temperatures, this is what you expect by day at this time of the year. a very mild night as we go into thursday. but thursday's going to be a transition day, we have not one but two fronts working their way across england.

patches of early—morning rain in south—west england. more rain arriving into south—west england, wales, northern ireland, western scotland. it will eventually push its way up into the midlands and north—west england. ahead of this, we've still got some warmth across east anglia, south—east england. 21 or 22 celsius here. starting to see something cooler further west. then some very turbulent weather potentially friday. a deep area of low pressure, tightly packed isoba rs, so gales and heavy rain. we've got multiple heavy warnings in place at the moment. that will be pushing its way across the uk, bringing heavy rain into western scotland, northern wales and south—west england. still very windy through the afternoon. that rain may not get across to the far south—east of england until late in the day. these are the average, sustained winds, but the gusts could well get up to 50 or 60 miles an hour, maybe even higher. so potentially some disruptive winds, keep an eye on the warnings. there are lots of them

and they are all on our website. bye— bye. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top story: hurricane michael bears down on america's gulf coast. massive storm surges and winds approaching 200 kilometres an hour are expected within hours. the imf warns of ‘dangerous undercurrents‘ in the global economy — and says there's a real risk of another financial crisis. and our mental health is getting worse — with few countries doing enough to help. a major new report gives a bleak outlook. in business briefing: survivors of the sulawesi earthquake and tsunami are returning to work as they try to put the horror of the disaster behind them.