with me is iain martin, columnist for the times here in london. the frenchjournalist agnes poirier. the writer on arab affairs abdel bari atwan. and annalisa piras, the italian writer and filmaker. as we go to air, jamal khashoggi hasn't been seen for 11 days — since he entered saudi arabia's consulate in istanbul. the saudi government says accusations that it ordered the killing of the 59—year—old, who writes for the washington post and has been critical of the regime, aren't true. the secretary general of the united nations has demanded the truth and says whoever is involved must be held legally accountable. what should be the international response? abdel bari atwan, you've known khashoggi for 30 years, so it must be a difficult topic for you to talk about. to be honest, as a middle eastern journalist, i am sad and scared. sad because i know the man for the last 35 years.

he's very decent. he is actually very objective — sometimes he takes a position which is pro—government, but when he realised the situation in saudi arabia when it comes to the freedom of expression, of human rights, when he realised it was unbearable, he raised his voice to say enough was enough. scared because it seems if this kind... the people who committed this crime, if they get away with it, all of us will be threatened as journalists, especially if we are living in the west. the message is very clear — wherever you are, we can reach you. this is the message to people who would like to criticise these autocratic regimes, to criticise the abuse of human rights. and we will talk more about the situation in saudi arabia,

but you say you are scared — was he scared? did he ever talk to you about that? he was living in self—imposed exile. would he have been nervous going into that consulate? he was very nervous, before that. he felt very lonely. his wife was not allowed to go and join him in the united states and to live with him and that is why... his family, his sons and daughter, were under house arrest in saudi arabia. they could not leave and join him. he realised that the crown prince of saudi arabia would not leave him alone. so maybe this is the reason. he was depressed. he went to turkey hoping that he could find protection there. he has good relations with president erdogan of turkey. he bought a flat hoping he could settle down. he wanted to establish an organisation to monitor human

rights abuse in the gulf region, which is at its peak these days. so maybe that is why he was killed. but to be killed in a brutal way, to enter your country's consulate for marriage papers and never to get out alive, or even in plastic bags... we don't know. turkey says it has audio recordings that proves what you are saying — the saudi government says that is not the case. they say the fact is he has not been seen for 11 days. we should all discuss what should happen now. what can a response be? first of all, we note that there is an investment conference taking place in ten days' time in riyadh. it is interesting that it is civil society, in a way,

that is applying pressure. it is not governments for the moment. governments need evidence, fine. but it looks as if something very grim happened to jamal khashoggi. media partners and business partners have started pulling out of this conference, which is pretty important for the crown prince. they pulled out pretty quickly. every single one of us, britain, france, are not going to stop selling arms to saudi arabia. on the other hand, the un was very vocal about what happened in istanbul. and so that is what international organisations are for as well, and i completely agree with bari that saudi arabia should not get away with a crime like this. remember, just a few months ago, this charm offensive of the crown prince in paris and london — this young guy, a reformer, and then the prime minister of lebanon on was for weeks detained in saudi arabia, and hundreds

of royals and businessmen at the ritz—carlton, who only managed to get released because they transferred billions of cash. this is a ruthless regime. so i think if a crime has been committed, yes, they should not get away with it. otherwise it will be like putin sending killers to britain. some people have already made those parallels. annalisa? this is the fundamental question — yes, saudi arabia is the biggest buyer of weapons in the world, compared to its size. it is the biggest oil producer after russia, but does that mean they can do whatever they want? we know that saudi arabia has an abysmal record in supporting terrible interpretations of islam, such as isis. they have been committing horrendous

crimes in yemen towards civilians. this is the last straw. it should not be only the media partners, as has just been mentioned, that have pulled out from this huge investment conference, which is key for saudi arabia, because saudi arabia has been trying to diversify its economy from oil to something else. they need investment. it is a hugely important conference in riyadh. the media has pulled out, which is very good, but it should be government, high profile people, and the un should take action. and britain's stance? very strong links between britain and saudi arabia. there are very strong links, and this is incredibly difficult and complex for the west, which has effectively, on american advice, has backed mohammed bin salman, and has backed the new leadership and has spent the last year or so crawling to the saudis in the expectation... seeing it as the end

of the cold war, and modernisation. there is now a question mark against that. there are questions for trump to answer, because it seems clear, and you look at how mohammed bin salman behaved, for example, very disrespectfully towards president obama in the oval office, and he was enabled by trump to forge this great bond with him. it would not be surprising if mbs felt enabled or liberated in terms of taking on journalists by some of the rhetoric coming from trump, describing journalists as enemies of the people and setting up the media as a target. but this is not only going on because of what trump does. of course...

saudi arabia is always cracking down on dissent... but taking the decision to do something so transgressive as killing a journalist on foreign soil and expecting to get away with it, then someone has given mbs the impression that he can do whatever he likes, and that seems to have been the president of the united states. i agree 100% with iain. i was shocked to listen to president trump on fox news saying that the crime did not take place on american soil. that he's not an american citizen. and we have $110 billion worth of arms deals so we should not swallow this. we should actually go ahead with business. that is what trump said.

so it means it is a huge encouragement to other people in the middle east to kill journalists, or kill anybody. it means money is more important than human rights. it means deals are more important than freedom of expression. that is shocking. this is the man, the leader of the free world, and we're not talking about russia, we are talking about the united states. so this attitude against journalists, to give priority to arms deals, i think it is shocking. in europe this year, fourjournalist have been killed. so we are witnessing a kind of escalation against the messengers. and that is a very big issue. i think that there is a problem in saudi arabia. we have also to denounce and to look very carefully at what is happening against journalists. because the moment in which you start getting impunity for journalists. ..

and this is happening in europe as well. we have had malta, bulgaria, slovakia, countries that are normally supposed to be civilised countries that respect freedom of expression, we have had journalists killed and no repercussions. again it comes back to what is done. businesses and media companies can pull out of a conference but doesn't there have to be a lead taken, then, by western governments? possibly, but the interesting aspect of this in terms of us policy is that that lead does not seem to really... isn't really going to come from trump. but congress is taking a great interest in this for the reasons that we describe, because it is an outrage but also because it is an american publication involved. and there is the potential there for us policy in the region to be upended. if american lawmakers essentially forced a shift,

potentially even at some point in the future it's not impossible to imagine sanctions — that runs directly counter to policy which is pursued byjohn bolton via trump of seeing saudi as a modernising saudi — that has been the narrative of the last 18 months. a modernising saudi, through which the region can be remade. saudi as an ally, amazingly, of israel, primarily to target iran and shift american policy from the obama years. that policy approach now has the added complication that it's going to be a live issue in washington. how close the us should be to the saudi regime... it's an added complication but i don't think it's going to count for anything. trump being trump, he's

going to swallow that. we're not going to, but he will. it's not going to change us policy in the middle east. what i believe, there should be a move from the west to say to mohammed bin salman, the crown prince, enough is enough, you must stop these massacres, these war crimes in yemen. we must respect the freedom of expression, and these countries, the west, we are coming to the west simply because we believe in freedom of expression, we can be safe here. the message is very clear, we are not safe. personally, i received death threats from middle eastern governments. but being in western countries i feel safe and they cannot come. but now, they want to terrorise us. they want to terrorise the opposition. the opposition living in the west. and this is the message.

we must actually stand together and say that these kind of crimes are not acceptable and should not be happening, and anybody who commits them should be punished. the conference that was mentioned, british and french have flooded resources into trying to make saudi the next big, open market. that is complicated. if this conference collapses, you start to see... i don't seek trump shifting, but europe might be key. a very interesting point. thank you very much on that. we will turn our attentions to european matters. some british cabinet ministers made their considerable concerns known this week about the suggestion that the uk could remain in a customs union beyond 2020. it appears to be one brexit option on the table — to give negotiators more time to work on a trade deal in the run up to the imminent eu summit.

10 downing street stamped on the idea pretty quickly, adamant that it won't allow the country to be tied into an indefinite customs union. at the same time, chancellor philip hammond was sounding pretty upbeat at the imf meeting in bali, saying he felt discussions were picking up pace, and that britain could expereince an economic boost from brexit, as long as a deal is done. iain, a few days away, that eu summit. what is your reading of where we are right now? that the most optimisitic person is the usually eeyore—like, gloom—laden philip hammond, that is a problem. i think that, essentially, the deal is in serious jeopardy... the prospects of reaching a deal? the prospects of reaching a deal on our... so philip hammond is not right?

i think he is wrong. the complications of the politics here suggest that theresa may is trapped in a maze. the british domestic policy, it is very difficult to see how she can get what the european union needs her to get through in terms of commitments on the irish border and on the customs backstop, which has become so confusing, even to the people in britain and on the continent who are writing about it and conducting negotiations. the terminology is increasingly baffling. but theresa may does not have a majority, she relies on the ulster unionist dup for her majority in parliament. and they seem pretty determined not to accept, not to swallow what she has to offer as a compromise to try to get some sort of deal through.

so the politics are incredibly difficult. now, it is not impossible that at some point in the next week to ten days, there is a classic european fudge, that new forms of language are concocted that allow a deal to be patched together. but i think it is increasingly difficult to see that happening, actually. is anyone else more optimistic than iain at all? i think that he's onto something. i think the european union has been very good at kicking the can down the road, and that is probably what is going to happen. the president of the commission was very upbeat this week. he said that we will find a deal. so my impression is that there will be some kind of fudge, this invisible border in northern ireland, there will be some magic there.

a deal will be found and then there will be this frictionless trade, which is the keyword at the moment. nobody wants a mess, so they will get frictionless trade. a long transition, 21, 24 months, and then maybe we will know something about it. but on the other hand, what is happening on saturday with the people's vote march, with people actually in britain starting to realise that it is an awful mess, a dog's dinner, and people are starting to shift opinion towards a second vote... they are not. the polls tell us that they are. they simply are not. look atjohn curtice on this, leading british experts on this. this is one of the most

astonishing things about life in britain since the referendum, people who voted leave are still broadly in favour of leave. those who voted remain are still broadly in favour of remain. there have been little bits of fluctuation but there is no evidence that... there have been several polls saying that there has been a shift. i think there are plenty that say otherwise. the eu summit begins on thursday. i think there will be a deal. a deal or a fudge? classic european fudge, i think that was the phrase? fudge doesn't exist on the continent. it is a british invention. far too sweet, in my opinion. so i think there will be a deal. the problem is, the eu is faced always with the chance that

something in uk domestic politics is going to derail what they are doing in brussels. that is to say, i mean, last time, arlene foster from the dup said, actually, no. and theresa may had to go back to london to discuss. the basic extension of the transitional period for me is the only way out. because it gives more time for them to sit down... and it gives more time to britain and the tory and labour parties to sort out the mess and perhaps after march, to have new elections or leadership contests, and so it isjust buying time basically for britain to find a new voice oi’ an agreement. i'm not sure about this second referendum. it depends also on the question asked. look at the labour conference. labour does not want a second

referendum, so i'm not sure it is the answered. how many referendums will it take? best of three or maybe best of five, just keep on going! there is a positive side for theresa may to chair a meeting of the inner cabinet. definitely she has something in hand. it is not her style to call the cabinet for this reason so maybe there is some good news, but the problem is, inside the conservative party, inside the government itself, inside this shaky alliance between the unionists and theresa may and the conservative party, the division here is actually causing a problem. so we don't see the whole conservative party united behind theresa may. certainly not. and if there is a deal or a prospect of a deal, is it going to last?

is it going to succeed? what is the reaction of the parliament, for example? the problem is that the week in which this has been happening, this was supposed to be sorted this week, so at that key meeting of the inner cabinet, the prime minister did not say very much. she chaired the meeting, she did not say, i have the makings of a deal here, because that is what seems to have gone wrong in the last week and which is the reason i am now so pessimistic about it, is that the meeting between michel barnier, the eu's chief negotiator, and arlene foster, who you mentioned, the dup leader, went extremely badly. the british have made a long tradition of misunderstanding the european union. misunderstanding its values and what it is about and that is why the british have messed up the negotiation. however, the european union seems to be making a fatal misunderstanding

about northern ireland and about what it is and the fact that it is part of the united kingdom, and foster and herfellow dup mps are digging their heels in because they are absolutely furious, annoyed with the way london has handled it, but there is no way they are going to vote for something that as they see it is dividing up the uk. the european union is still wanting potentially there to be checks between one part of the uk, northern ireland, and the rest of the uk, britain. and that is something which the dup is making very clear that it simply will not vote for. before this week the british government broadly expected the dup to go along with whatever... we had known for a long time that this is a problem. everyone has been saying, it will be fudged, and the dup suspect that the fudge is really a stitch up of them, and this is the week in which they have said they are not

going to vote for that. but then they could be outnumbered by labour mps voting. they might be. so then, in that equation, theresa may does not need the dup any more. but that is a catastrophic miscalculation by her because in the middle of all of this is the uk budget, the finance bill. only a couple of weeks away. october 29th. which the government hilariously put in there so that it would not get tangled up in all of the brexit stuff. but then there is the possibility that tory rebels combined with the dup, combining with the labour opposition, could vote down or amend elements of the government's finance bill, meaning britain does not have a financial settlement. despite what number ten is trying to present, that is effectively

the end of the government. how can we get out of this mess? it it seems it is going on and on. so i disagree with you, why can't we have a referendum? let the british people decide. we did have one and i don't really want to revisit that. we are trying to look ahead to this week. your thoughts about other european countries looking in, listening to all of this, they will be leading this summit on thursday... there is boredom and irritation because in the continental eyes, britain hasn't moved from having your cake and eating it and cherry—picking, and so there is a boredom about that. one thing that is changing, and i think it is relevant with the possible fudge, is that there is much more disposition to hear about the freedom of movement. a lot of countries in europe are moving towards a tougher line on immigration, so i think it could be part of maybe a second vote on the deal, the deal could go back to the people

saying, look, we have secured maybe stricter controls on freedom of movement... that ship has sailed several years ago. there was a referendum in britain and the people... people did not vote for this mess. people voted to leave the european union, and britain is going to leave the european union. on that note, that is where we end dateline london for this week. let's see what happens at the summit and see what we might be discussing around the table this time next week. join us then if you can. thanks for watching. hello.

i think the main message is that the weather will improve over the next 2a hours, but until then, we still have some very heavy rain on the way. hopefully this next spell of rain is not going to last as long as the one we have had currently. the good news is also that the winds are starting to ease so as we go through tonight, we really are going to lose those gale force winds, as this tail end of storm callum slowly starts to clear away from the uk, but for the time being, there is still an amber warning in force from the met office for southern parts of wales. this is where we have seen very troublesome weather with all of that flooding rain, and untilaround 6pm, there is a chance of encountering heavy falls of rain in the south. also heavy rain in the north west of england, wales, northern ireland as well. to the east and south—east that has been a completely different story, very warm. look at the temperatures at 8 o'clock this evening, temperatures are still into the 20s. this air is mild, how warm this air is coming in from the south.

it is driving this extreme weather front, very warm air to the east and the colder air tucking in out in the atlantic. in the early hours of sunday morning, it is 5 degrees in western scotland, 15 in norwich, and in between, we have that spell of heavy rain once again so this is the next spell of heavy rain, starting tonight, the early hours of the morning, in the morning on sunday and in the afternoon, it moves further north. you can see that contrast in the temperature between the north west of the uk and east anglia and the southeast. we are still going to have warm weather on sunday. this is the morning. from 6 o'clock it is raining in the south, it spills across the midlands, wales into yorkshire, so areas that have not seen too much rain will get some whereas in the north west, a totally different story. it is raining here at the moment, but tomorrow you will get the sunshine in belfast and glasgow. still warm in london and norwich, around 18 degrees, above—average for

the time of year but lower than what we have had. on monday, high pressure finally starts to build across the uk, at least temporarily. there is a weather front in the southeast. there could be a bit of rain around for a time, but overall, the message is that the weather is improving later on sunday and into monday. this is bbc news. the headlines at 5pm. president trump has a warning for saudi arabia if claims it's involved in the murder of a saudi journalist are stood up. we're going to get to the bottom of it and there will be severe punishment. more than 30 flood warnings are in place, as storm callum continues to bring heavy rain and strong winds to many areas. the chancellor is coming under growing pressure from his own mps to find extra funding for universal credit. the first ever national album day — celebrating the country's love of vinyl across all genres of music. also in the next hour, an amnesty on hospital equipment. patients are urged to return

crutches, walking frames and wheel chairs to the nhs so they can be reused or recycled.