the united states has officially asked turkey for a surveillance recording said to have been made by turkish intelligence of the saudi journalist and government critic jamal khashoggi being murdered and dismembered in the saudi consulate in istanbul. president trump has again praised the saudi leadership and its strong trade and security relationship with the us, but rejected suggestions he's trying to cover up what may have happened. british prime minister has asked european union leaders for more flexibility over brexit and the irish border. theresa may had been urged to come up with new proposals to break the deadlock, but the president of the european parliament said he'd heard nothing new, at talks in brussels. three days of mourning have been declared in crimea after a gun and bomb attack on a college left at least 19 people dead. russian investigators say the assault was carried out by an 18—year—old student at the school. it's just after liz30am. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur.

to mark the one—year anniversary of catalonia's hugely controversial independence referendum, more than 150,000 catalans took to the streets of barcelona. some blocked roads and rail lines, and they scuffled with police. it was a howl of frustration from people whose dream has been thwarted. well, my guest today is ernest maragall, self—styled minister of foreign action in the catalan regional government. was the separatists‘ decision to go for broke a year ago a major strategic error? ernest maragall, welcome to

hardtalk. thank you. here we are, one year on from that referendum, which you separatists claim gave you a mandate for independence, which, of course, the madrid government declared completely illegal. and many people believe that right now, your movement has lost momentum and has no clear strategy. that's a legit and thought, this one. but i think things are slightly different —— legitimate thought. we're finding our new path, no, we're building this new path. after these troubles in the last year, we've had to... how to say, how do you say, a bad year? you've had a black year... in terms of repression and injustice. we have suffered. we

are still suffering in this situation of high pressure coming from the spanish state. on focused really on what seems to be a lack of direction inside the separatist movement. for example, you brought out huge crowds onto the streets of barcelona and other cities to mark the one—year anniversary of that referendum that you held, but there we re referendum that you held, but there were clear divisions within the crowd. there were some people within that crowd who wanted direct action, who wore hoods, who undertook violent acts against train tracks, against roads. how do you feel about those people? i don't like this attitude. we don't share it. our focus is on three clear elements, maintain dialogue and peaceful baby for a bus. i'm going to stop you there, before we get to number three, let's get to peaceful behaviour because you're catalan president, he praised those who blocked the roads and train tracks and tried to enter the catalan

parliament. let me finish. he said, iurge parliament. let me finish. he said, i urge them to keep up the pressure. to keep up the pressure doesn't mean violence, doesn't mean entering the parliament of course. he was talking about the need for us to maintain to apply positive pressure over the spanish government but the truth is, mr maragall, your split, the truth is the former exiled former president of the region, carles puigdemont, he reflected on what he saw on the streets and he said if these people are violent, that is these people are violent, that is the only way to overcome. that's what i was trying to say, exactly. its the only way to act and behave is this one. that's our first

strategy for this present period, in this new and different period in. there's these committees for the defence of rubber republic, set up by young catalan activists. for example, one of them was seen a few weeks ago to put up an effigy of a policeman, hung from a street lamp in barcelona. now, when you see those sorts of images with the words written leave none of them alive, how do you feel about these activists who are on your side?” activists who are on your side?|j feel absolutely activists who are on your side?” feel absolutely against these attitudes, but i'm sure these attitudes, but i'm sure these attitudes are not giving character to the process and to our movement. they are very, very, very small. very marginal sectors. we cannot accept that this is the present definition of the republican process. yesterday we had a demonstration in barcelona, because

it was the first anniversary of the putting injail of our two it was the first anniversary of the putting in jail of our two civic leaders. again it was once more singing songs and chants. you're losing control of some elements on the separatist side. i wouldn't say so. the separatist side. i wouldn't say so. i wouldn't say so. i think in any case it is clear we need to clarify and to express our new strategy in order to send a message to all citizens, including these radicals, perhaps comprehensive reactions, to know whether we are... what do we want for the next period, which is our goal is. and our goals are three clear goals. you already laid out dialogue, let's hear the other to quickly. what are the other two goals? i was not talking about goals, about attitudes, about the strategy. i think the other want is

widening our support, and the third one is to be present in europe and in international in the shannons to be understood. -- institutions. we'll get through all of this but there are specific issues before we do that i want to put to use. one is about the prisoners. there are nine high profile political prisoners right now. mr ca rles high profile political prisoners right now. mr carles puigdemont‘s in exile, but these nine, including his deputy, there they sit in prison and they're accused of very serious crimes by the spanish government. sedition, rebellion etc. you have said that you want the government in madrid to intervene in their cases, to release these people. surely the message of your movement from the very beginning is the spanish courts have been politicised in the past

and must not be politicised in the future. so why are you calling for the government to influence the independent judiciary? the government to influence the independentjudiciary? no, the spanish government has a lot of tools and rules and rights to intervene in a sense, notjust giving instructions to a prosecutor for one personal case, or individual, or group case. there was a recent appeal on the basis of the families saying this was intolerable and unreasonable distress being imposed on the prisoners' families and the supreme court threw it out. that's the process of law. the supreme court in spain is independent. it should be independent. it should be independent. at this moment, we could say it's much more than independent, it's a real political power by itself. they have their own ideology and they've decided to apply... to appropriate the constitution. they have... our own interpretation of the constitution

in spain, the 78 constitution we agree with, and they've put in the concept of unity above the rule of law, above the democratic will of the people and society. they have no right to do this. well, if you take that position, you question the independence of the courts in the spanish system... but not in the way that they are obeying the spanish government. they are acting... for their own design and their own purpose. if that's your view, if you can't control them now, how are you going to control them when ninov your political leadership are actually on trial? i think you were right before, what we are trying to build, we need to express our common united strategy at this moment before thejudgement united strategy at this moment before the judgement arrives. it

could be different if we are able to build this establishment, express it, explain to the citizenship and arrive at this moment... it's difficult. we will have a clear possibility of managing the situation, of acting as real responsible for the social and political institutional reaction. it will be necessary to have a reaction. well, we'll see if that happens. let me ask you something else, which is deeply political. it seems to me last year, one year ago, you were in a direct confrontation with the madrid government and the head of that madrid government was mr rajoy, and the ppe, popular party, which clearly was absolutely intent upon confrontation with your objectives. there was a clash. direct clash between the two. there things are different now. there is a socialist government led by pedro sanchezin socialist government led by pedro sanchez in madrid. they've tried to

reach out to you, they sent a message saying we're interested in a dialogue, we're interested in offering more autonomy, that a financial package, we'd like to sit down and talk. you yourself are a socialist, just like pedro sanchez isa socialist, just like pedro sanchez is a socialist, you're in a very different political context now so why not take advantage of that and actually talk? such governing is thanks to our vote. you put them in power in a way, the nationalist votes in the spanish parliament put them in power. hang on, does that give you the right to ignore mr sanchez? you said to him, your leader, mr torah, has sanchez? you said to him, your leader, mrtorah, has said sanchez? you said to him, your leader, mr torah, has said to mr sanchez, unless you commit to giving us an sanchez, unless you commit to giving us an independence referendum within one month, we will withdraw our support from your government. that's blackmail. i think it's an expression of urgency. you have to understand that we are living with

oui’ understand that we are living with our prisoners injail, with our leaders in exile also, and with natural... coming from our society. they are urging us to take decisions, to run, to claim a republic already without waiting for anything. we are looking for real a nswer anything. we are looking for real answer is because the spanish socialist government hasn't given us any answers. my point is this... i interviewed dot.. there's no real dialogue offer of us still. that's not what was put to me by the spanish foreign minister, joseph borrell, a few weeks ago, i interviewed him, he said firstly we are committed to dialogue but he also said we have changed the narrative, the spanish people, including the people of catalonia, now see there is a government in place that is not unreasonable, that's trying to find a new path and

if you in catalonia continue to reject a meaningful dialogue, the blame would be with you, not with madrid. it's what they're trying to establish is a common topic accepted all over europe, minister borrell, but things are very different. but let's go back to our goals. 0ur goals is freedom for our prisoners, democracy in the sense of reaching an agreement about how to express oui’ an agreement about how to express our right to decide our future, an agreement about how to express our right to decide ourfuture, and respect our institutions at the present moment. the possibility of really doing an executive useful government action. these three goals, freedom, democracy and government are not still on the table coming from any message from the spanish socialist party. they are talking about a new one...

they're talking about a new institute an autonomous institute. coming back ten years ago, it isn't adding nothing new, it is not answering our claim. are you prepared to bring down this government? it's not our purpose to bring down this government. but are you prepared to do it? we have to be always... in politics one always has to be prepared to take the decisions you don't want to. but if you do that... if i tell you now that we'll never do it then i'm announcing any possibility of having a... hang on, let me ask this question, you know if you bring down the socialist government, according to the opinion polls, there is a very high chance if there is a snap election the next government of spain will be absolutely opposed to any sort of

meaningful dialogue. that's the reason why we're not interested in bringing down this government. it's not our will, it's not ourjust... not our last word on it. we will do all is possible to reach an agreement with the spanish government. you've boxed yourselves into a corner, that's the truth. when you say to me, our desire right now is to broaden our support, the fundamental problem as separatists in catalonia is despite all of the effo rts in catalonia is despite all of the efforts you've made, and last year's dramatic independence referendum that you held, that the opinion polls are absolutely clear. you do not command and overwhelming majority of the people of catalonia on your side. look at the december election result, which was very close. look at the opinion polls today, which show 46% of catalans favour independence. almost 45% opposed it. this is a region

com pletely opposed it. this is a region completely divided. you don't have the momentum that would take your movement towards independence. the momentum that would take your movement towards independencem any case, you have won the last four opportunities to express our well, that's votes, in 2014 with a proper consultation. my catalans point is it is not that you can't win elections, these are the words of a historian, she says some of us believe that, despite the fact of victory and a referendum might be valid and legitimate with a win or simply 51%, the truth is in terms of secession from spain, you need a much wider majority than that and you can't win that wider majority. why we can't? it is our goal. i said it before. it is part of our goals. it is exactly this one. we are conscious of this. we know that it

will be hard to overcome the 50% of cata la n will be hard to overcome the 50% of catalan society in favour of our project. we will have no right to claim for international support. that is our duty, this is our task, thatis that is our duty, this is our task, that is why we need time, that is why we need stability, executive government, stable, sure, credible. i see what you're saying. you need time, you need to show in the cata la n time, you need to show in the catalan region that you have a sta ble catalan region that you have a stable government that is good for the people. another of your problems... we have to gain this. yes, you do. the problem is that people of catalonia right now have real fear people of catalonia right now have realfear and economic people of catalonia right now have real fear and economic fears connected with the uncertainty that you guys have stirred up. six, seven yea rs you guys have stirred up. six, seven years ago, this kind of proposal, this republic for a new catalonian state, would have received no more than 20%. and we have already made a

great lap, a great forward advance from 20 to almost 50. then it is not a fixed, stable, closed situation. it is another element. the bloc for the republic is different because it is diverse, left, central right, ce ntre—left, is diverse, left, central right, centre—left, everything else. is diverse, left, central right, centre-left, everything else. yes, the separatist movement... there is still a project, a common purpose, a real future. still a project, a common purpose, a realfuture. 0n still a project, a common purpose, a real future. 0n the other side, still a project, a common purpose, a realfuture. 0n the other side, the other 50%, to say, there is no project. they have not offered anything except to be against. the one thing they have... hang on, let me ask a question. 0ne one thing they have... hang on, let me ask a question. one thing they have on their side, the catalan opponents of separation and independence, is evidence that

business in catalonia does not want to continue with this separatist political project. for example, 3000 companies shifted their official headquarters out of catalonia as a result of the uncertainty stirred up by that referendum of yours. look at some of the biggest tanks, they have moved their headquarters, their official headquarters away from catalonia —— banks. look at gas naturale, another company, and talk about foreign investment falling away, it suggests there is a real danger to catalonia's prosperity if you continue your campaign. facts are saying almost exactly to the contrary. it is true, some big corporations, big business sector have taken precautions and have protected... yes, because they don't like the uncertainty. but they don't like the uncertainty. but they don't like uncertainty exactly. but it depends on how the climate of

dialogue is reached between the spanish state and catalan institutions. and the economic fuels at the moment, we are growing more than spain, we are growing much more than spain, we are growing much more than the eu countries. we have enormous surplus, almost the second in europe. we have a lot of views that show... minister, the very fact that show... minister, the very fact that catalonia has prospered within spain suggest to me that many cata la ns spain suggest to me that many catalans will listen to you and thick, you know what, the status quo has allowed us to be a prosperous people —— think. inside the spanish nation. i understand you, but the question is that we are not here because of the economic given, or a sense of being not prosperous — that is not a revolution of necessity.

this is not a revolution of desperation. it is a kind of revolution... a new kind of european democratic movement established more in conviction, in our personality, our writes, it is not nationalistic, it is not ethnic, it is notjust rejecting against the spanish people. well, a final point... it is a real affirmation... it is valuable for europe. we know it. well, you keep telling me that you, as a separate independent nation would be great for europe. your problem, this is my final question, your problem as ministerfor action in europe is that europe doesn't believe you. jean—claude juncker the president of the commission said not long ago my goodness, you know, if the catalans ever did get their independence we would be looking at a european union which would consist of about 98 states. we don't want that. there is

no treaty for the question over the issue of nations inside the state to ta ke issue of nations inside the state to take the decision... there is no provision. it would be no more than two, three, four cases, scotland, flemish... well, who are you to say? you can't say what you might open up in terms of other separatist movements around europe. you have no idea. it makes sense. it is already happening. to open the real debate at the european level about the internal enlargement, to say the requisite, the democratic equality that would be required for the people to express their will in this sense, why not? to be honest, at the moment, europe's problems with

brexit, with some match of what's happening in eastern europe with nationalism and populism, frankly, i don't think your vision of europe considering a future of regions and fragmentation... it is a medium - long—term vision it is a fantasy. no, nota long—term vision it is a fantasy. no, not a fantasy. a final thought from a striking quote from a leading journalist in one of catalonia's biggest newspapers, juan lopez wrote this. catalonia doesn't have the strength for unilateral independence. what it does have is a massive ability to destabilise the whole spain. that is where we are today, isn't it? no, because... i know him very well. this is a friend of mine. and i think that his diagnosis is a part of the truth, because we have had this ability, we have had these extreme movements,

for instance, but we also have the knowledge, the will to accept a real debate with the spanish state about the real conditions of the relations. we are putting on the table our independence, but we are open to discuss real alternatives, a real offer for the open to discuss real alternatives, a real offerfor the spanish open to discuss real alternatives, a real offer for the spanish socialist government, which has not been formal, has not been expressed still. but why not? instead of choosing yes or no about independence, why not choose a or b about independence or a kind of devolution? why not? this is the real dialogue that we could have really opened already. and the spanish socialist government is not able to open. well, in terms of dialogue, we have to stop our dialogue. it is a pity. ernest maragall, thank you very much. thank you very much, thank you very much.

hello there. the last couple of days, we've had quite a lot of cloud across england and wales, with some clearer skies further north. the cloud has been down to this weather front that's increasingly been trying to move away, replaced by this build of pressure coming in from the atlantic, and that's what's been clearing the skies. and yesterday, we had a fine and clear end to the day across the northern half of the uk. and that's led to temperatures dropping like a stone. it's certainly going to be a cold start to the morning, particularly in the countryside, across the northern half of the uk. temperatures down to just below freezing in katesbridge in northern ireland first thing, and also a few spots in scotland seeing a patchy frost. but, for most, a chilly start. the far south of england, though, still having quite a bit of cloud first thing in the morning, maybe a few mist patches for the thames estuary and up over

the tops of the downs. and as we go through the rest of the day, you'll notice the cloud thickening across western scotland, where there'll also be a few light showers coming and going across the western isles and the northern isles. it should stay mostly dry for the mainland, though. temperatures between 12 and 16 degrees. as i say, a lot of dry and bright weather. now, as we go through into thursday night time, thickening cloud will work into the north—west of the country, and that will help lift the temperatures towards the end of the night. but it's going to be a colder night across parts of england and wales, particularly in the countryside, again, temperatures getting into low single figures, there could be a few patches of mist and fog around as well. for friday, well, we've still got our area of high pressure with us but this weather front will be bringing thickening cloud to the north—west of the country and outbreaks of rain ultimately to scotland. further south, in northern ireland, we are closer to the influence of a high pressure, so the front does come through, but the rain's going to be quite light and patchy, just turning quite cloudy, really, through the afternoon. we'll probably see things turning

damp for a time across north—west england and the north of wales too. whilst the skies brighten scotland for the north of friday afternoon, there should be some sunshine in southern england and wales. highs of up to 17 degrees. heading on into the weekend, well, we've got this warm front moving in off the atlantic, and again, that's going to be bringing some more rain across scotland, even pushing into eastern areas as we go through the morning. the afternoon, well, it should become really quite warm for the time of year across eastern areas of scotland and north—east england. and thanks to the foehn effect, and we can see temperatures pushing up to around 18 degrees or so. and for england and wales, the weather stays quite quiet, variable cloud, some bright or sunny spells, but we could see mist and fog patches to start the day. and that theme will continue probably into saturday as well. mist and fog patches around this weekend but the weather mostly dry for most of us. that's your weather. this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock.

our top story: still no progress in brussels on brexit and the uk's transition out of the eu could be extended for another year to the end of 2021. the us asks turkey to hand over a surveillance recording said to provide strong evidence that the saudi journalist jamal khashoggi was killed in istanbul. crimea begins three days of mourning after the gun and bomb attack at a college that left at least 19 people dead. in business, #metoo sweeps across india as women take to social media to speak out over workplace harassment. also coming up in the business briefing: a no—deal brexit will set britain's car industry back two decades,