australia's prime minister has delivered a national apology to victims of child sexual abuse. in a speech in parliament, scott morrison said australia had failed to listen, to believe, and to provide justice. he also announced measures to better protect children. saudi arabia's foreign minister has described the killing ofjournalist jamal khashoggi as murder. but he insisted it was the result of a rogue operation. turkey's president says he will reveal what happened on tuesday. about 2,000 honduran migrants are continuing their march towards the united states, after crossing into mexico. mexican police are monitoring the convoy, but there were no attempts to block them. president trump says he is determined to stop what he called an onslaught of illegal aliens from entering the us. now on bbc news, it is hardtalk, with zeinab badawi. welcome to hardtalk,

with me, zeinab badawi. my guest is a former business executive turned politician. he is saulos chilima, the vice president of the small southern african state of malawi. he was president mutharika's running mate in the elections in 2014. now he has left the ruling democratic progressive party, and says he will run against him in the presidential elections next year to, as he puts it, save the country from destruction and corruption. why is he criticising a government of which he still is a member? and, if corruption is really as bad as he describes, why doesn't the vice president use his influence to stop the rot? will saulos chilima, malawi, welcome

to hardtalk. thank you. why are you running against the very man you stood within 2014 on a joint ticket? times change. and first of all, it isa times change. and first of all, it is a constitutional right in malawi for any person above the age of 35, and who has got the right qualifications, to contest for office. i am not saying that you are not fit to run for president, i am just enquiring why you have turned against peter mutharika, and yet you

we re against peter mutharika, and yet you were campaigning with him on a joint ticket only in 2013. i don't think it is turning against him, it is just i would like to exercise my constitutional right and contest the office of president. so you want to exercise your constitutional right. are you also exercising in discharging your duties right now as vice president? well, the vice president's officers are delegated office, constitution, so as i sit here and when i go back home i still am going to go to my office, report 01’ am going to go to my office, report or duties, and because the office of the vice president needs to be run bya the vice president needs to be run by a team of supporting technocrats and headed by an individual, i am still in that office. so do you have meetings with president mutharika? not afterjune. meetings with president mutharika? not afterjune. not since june, which is when you left the ruling dpp party? absolutely, absolutely. do you meet any of the cabinet and this is? not officially, except when

we attend functions together sometimes. it could be cultural events or church functions, and when you meet, you say hello, because we worked together before. but you are still drawing your salary as vice president, even though clearly you are not discharging your duties? well, iam. are not discharging your duties? well, i am. you said you haven't met the president since june? well, i am. you said you haven't met the president since june ?|j well, i am. you said you haven't met the president since june? i haven't met him, not at all, but what i am saying is the officers there, the office has not been vacated. i am still in that office and therefore i am available to provide counsel, to respond to enquiries by citizens, to respond to enquiries by citizens, to respond to enquiries by citizens, to respond to enquiries by different organisations, there is meetings, and there is guidance provided in that office. but you know the suspicion about why you have not left the government is mac no, what is the suspicion? i will give you an example of some of the things which have been said online by malawians. why is mr chilima not resigning to

show he wants change? he is using the money in tax money provided to the money in tax money provided to the vice president to run his own campaign. is that not corruption? another says if i were in his position i would publicly apologise to malawians that i am part of that failure. you are in a very difficult position. accept that. well, maybe yes, maybe no. look. idon‘t position. accept that. well, maybe yes, maybe no. look. i don't think that it yes, maybe no. look. i don't think thatitis yes, maybe no. look. i don't think that it is entirely correct to say that it is entirely correct to say that i am using government money to support the utm activities, that's not correct. that's your new party that you set up injuly, the united... it is a misrepresentation to suggest we are using taxpayers' money to run our activities, because it is not taxpayers money. but you are receiving a salary. well, the salary is there, and i have a contract which runs up to may 2019. which is when the elections are due.

which is when the elections are due. which is when the elections are due. which is when the elections are due, number two is the security details provided by the state, because i am still vice president. has president mutharika asked you to go? no, he hasn't. it is odd, because three cabinet ministers say it is difficult to understand how saulos chilima can discharge his responsibility to advise the president or collective cabinet responsibility when he has clearly taken a stand that are supposed to and challenges the policies of the current cabinet government. well, again, that is strange. i don't think that the policy of the government is to promote corruption. that is what we are fighting against. and speaking against corruption, speaking against nepotism, is actually not quite speaking against, you know, a government. 0r government policy, rather. it is speaking against the evils. so i would disagree with insinuations to the effect that i am speaking against government policy. it is not government policy to promote corruption. but you are not

obviously part of collective responsibility. don't you feel uncomfortable, yourself, saying i am vice president but actually, president mutharika, i have left your party, i am going to stand against eu next year, but yes, i am ready to report for duty to use. well, i don't feel uncomfortable at all. like i said, the office is there, and i am in it, and i still work. you are staying put. absolutely. so you brought up the issue of corruption. the information minister says the vice president is the second most powerful person in the second most powerful person in the country and has been there for five years. the question is where was he of all this time? to come out 110w was he of all this time? to come out now and expose corruption? interesting. it was over the four yea rs, interesting. it was over the four years, this is 4.5 years, i have spoken against corruption at different times. i am champion of the construction transparency initiative is back home. we look at contracts and things in that arena.

i have rebuked poor workmanship. i have spoken against poor ethics, poor ethics, rather, when i presented the public lecture at the university of malawi. these i was speaking when i was actively involved in government affairs, so it is incorrect to say that. but if corruption has reached what you have described as an embarrassing level, you are in a very influential position to do something about it, number two position to do something about it, numbertwo in position to do something about it, number two in the government. why didn't you stop the rot? uc, first is you engage, and say look, there is you engage, and say look, there isa is you engage, and say look, there is a problem here, can we do something about it? and you speak, you know, publicly, with these pronouncements. stopping it means that when you make a recommendation, it is taken on board. i am not the final decision maker. i can only make recommendations. who is the final decision maker? it is the

president of the country. you can't imply that the president of the country is guilty of any corruption. no, i'm not. you are not saying that. but he has condemned corruption just as much as you have. he insist that all the accusations that are made about corruption a com plete that are made about corruption a complete nonsense. he says we are fighting corruption. if we all work together we can stop scourge, but not one person. so, i mean, he is on the same page as you are. well, the corruption story in malawi is an interesting one. nobody disagrees that there is corruption. from the president to opposition leaders, the businesses, to the donor community, everyone. i will give you an example. the malawi economicjustice network says 30% of public services get propped up by corruption. what i would say is, we really, seriously fighting corruption? that is the question we should be addressing, and that is where we are coming from. we are saying i don't agree

that fight is ongoing, but it should be. i don't want to go and start making allegations against people here, but we do know that there is cases of corruption back home that are not being pursued because the people are protected within government. they belong to the ruling party. well, i mean, the anti—corruption bureau ruling party. well, i mean, the anti—corru ption bureau that ruling party. well, i mean, the anti—corruption bureau that exist in the country has been looking at various allegations that have come up, you know, contracts and money missing and so on and so forth, and it is said, quite clearly, at least in peter mutharika's case, that he has not benefited personally from any kind of wrongdoing. i mean, malawi, as you say quite rightly, is still reeling from the cash gate scandal of 2013— 2014 under the former president, banda, when tens of millions of dollars went missing, officials and politicians all caught up officials and politicians all caught up in that. but the thing is, as the president says, you've all got to come together to try to rid this

scourge. come together to try to rid this scourge. why can't you work with him, rather than standing against him? first and foremost, the cash gate story, we need to look at it on a continuum. i think you can't pinpoint a particular period between this day and that day, it has been going on foreverfew this day and that day, it has been going on forever few years. and the fa ct going on forever few years. and the fact that there is a need for collective efforts is also true. and we agree with that. however, if we are going to selectively pursue corruption cases, then we are not leaving our commitment, we are not leaving our commitment, we are not leaving our commitment, we are not leaving our promise. we need a situation where from top to bottom ofa situation where from top to bottom of a body that is suspected must be brought under investigations —— living our prop mike promise. and if the case is proven, prosecuted and sent to jail. that is the only way that we are going to be seen to be really living our promise. 0therwise it is rhetoric, and some of us tire

of the rhetoric only thing we must ta ke of the rhetoric only thing we must take drastic action. so just sticking with the corruption allegations that have swirled around former presidentjoyce banda, and i'm not saying that she is guilty in any way, and in fact she has returned to malawi to contest the elections, but her record is poor, and we know that donor countries withdrew funding to malawi, aid which accounted for about 40% of malawi's budget. president mutharika reminded everybody in june malawi's budget. president mutharika reminded everybody injune only that when his government came in, he says there is absolutely no money, the government was literally bankrupt. the deficit the previous government that was as huge as the national budget, arrears in billions, both local and international loans, and so on. so why then have you met with joyce banda in september and talked about how you have a common vision? look, first and foremost, let's clarify a bit about the donor aid. it is not entirely correct to say

that the aid was withdrawn. yes, budget support, as in direct budget. well, that is what the president said. donors who are providing 40% of our budget left us. the money still comes in through other channels, off budget financing is there, billions of dollars still comes into malawi. but the point is her presidency, even if she wasn't personally culpable, was very tainted. shaw, right. meeting of former president is not an issue. and having a vision as to make different people is also not an issue. and pronouncing the fact that people have got a similar vision, or they see the same picture, i don't think it matters whether they are up, you know, convicts or not. their brain is still there. no, she isn't. iam not brain is still there. no, she isn't. i am not saying anything personally against her. but i am just doing it to you, here i am saying i am really against corruption, and we are not

doing enough, and yet you applaud president under whom there was this rampant corruption, as we know from the cash gate scandal, and you say we have a common vision with her. well, well, you just said that she is not a convict, and she is not under the law. but she presided over great corruption going on. what i am saying is she is not a convict, she is not answering corruption charges at this stage. was her record good on tackling corruption? well, i can reserve that. you can reserve a? i can tell you, you know what happened? can tell you, you know what happened ? the can tell you, you know what happened? the donors pulled out, tens of millions have gone missing. look, to say that her corruption record was poor, i think it is an unfair conclusion. but to say that under her regime we uncovered serious or massive plunder, that is correct. so the point we should be making is, did she do enough? is the

a nswer yes making is, did she do enough? is the answer yes or no? the same under stephen says that not enough has been done, but we are fighting it. absolutely. the point being, iam fighting it. absolutely. the point being, i am saying, having a common vision does not necessarily mean that you do everything the same way. the reason anybody who has got a monopoly of first and foremost the knowledge of the issues, the problems in malawi. the solutions people come out with because these are what the individuals want to bring. if we say, for instance, we need to sort out security because over the last three, four, five yea rs we have over the last three, four, five years we have had problems with the deficit. that is a problem, how it is result is dependent on individual administration. i will ask you about policies in an minutes. all of this

boils down to what the president said about you, mr vice president, you want to be president, that is what he says all this is at the. really? will you do want to be president, don't you? really? will you do want to be president, don't you ?|j really? will you do want to be president, don't you? i always put an if, if i go through and i dashed —— andi an if, if i go through and i dashed —— and i am nominated. that is that i will contest. it might not happened. you might not stand?” would like to go through a democratic recess. this is one of the parties you created.” democratic recess. this is one of the parties you created. i am one of the parties you created. i am one of the founders. you may not be the presidential candidate.“ the founders. you may not be the presidential candidate. if someone else comes up, so be it. elections in may next year, does that give you enough time to build a solid race when you have the established parties particularly in the south and central regions, the ruling party with its stronghold in the south and the opposition party, the

stronghold in the centre? what is important is what i am offering. let me put it this way, the elections are not about the new president or replacing the party. message we are taking across is this is the future of the country. therefore, we in the utm think first and foremost, we will reach out to as many places as weekend and we believe our message is right. —— as we can. we also are know—how and expertise to indicate ina know—how and expertise to indicate in a language that resonates vary well with the people of malawi. it doesn't matter whether there are six month left, give it a very big shot, our best effort in order for us to penetrate. by the way, there are certain people in parts of the country that are already excited. euphoria is one thing, but making

sure we succeed is our mission.” will say you have an uphill struggle, you have the strongholds of the ruling party and the main opposition party that polled 28% of the malawi congress party in 2014, quite substantial. looking at what needs to be done, accurate to is a poor country, the united states —— united nations says that 79 people people in malawi are in extreme poverty. you have said that one of your eye—catching policies is you will create 1 million jobs in your eye—catching policies is you will create1 millionjobs in a yea rs. will create1 millionjobs in a years. do you really think that is possible? the ruling party says that is pure fantasy. it is possible. we should look at the economy and see what has been a progression? sitting here today, we have described as the law of the human development

country, the un development tax —— index, while income country according to the world bank. and of course, the statistics from the national statistic office will say the poverty levels are going higher. now, creating 1 millionjobs in an environment is a challenge. but unemployment is also one of the highest. therefore, we are looking at the fact that there is high unemployment, as opportunity. there are sectors that today are idle, there is the agricultural sector, which employs close to 60% of the people, which we think can absorb people, which we think can absorb people there. and economists said creating 1 millionjobs people there. and economists said creating 1 million jobs within a year might be a tall order, especially considering the accurate

economic environment, where will the jobs be created, in the public or private sector? your answer is the agricultural sector? it will be an individual —— interventionist of the agricultural will be one, the civil service will be at those. there are high unemployment rates in the public and private sector because instead of employing, companies are laying people off. we are proponents of1 million laying people off. we are proponents of1millionjobs laying people off. we are proponents of1 millionjobs because we need first of all, to create a critical mass. would need to create a base thatis mass. would need to create a base that is going to consume what organisations are going to be...m is whether or not it can be done. the body is disagree that it would be wonderful but your set a high bar for yourself. i have done so because it can be done. i believe it can be done and it will be done. will you campaign on that? in 2019, we will come back and say here is 1 campaign on that? in 2019, we will come back and say here is1 million job. 18 million people in malawi and

you will create 1 million jobs? job. 18 million people in malawi and you will create1 millionjobs? the current government has been applauded, it has built some key infrastructure, emphasised impressive road to make. i should say that the imf and the world bank have said that current president has done very well, encouraging progress has been made in human development in recent years in malawi. it also said last year that malawi is one of the ten countries in africa who improved the most last year after implementing regular treat it reforms which have made business easier. the imf has said growth is at 4%, inflation is getting under control. you are done such a bad job after all. pat yourself on the back that you have been part of that.” do not want that credit, it goes to one person. the imf hasjust slashed growth projected —— projection to

3.2%. not bad. good or bad, good or bad, we think we should be a lot better than where we are today. that is what i don't to say. talking about agriculture, you talk about expansion, something that comes up perpetually when we talk about malawi. around half of the export earnings are from tobacco. that is not the great then, obviously smoking cigarettes is very harmful, the who liked the city end of smoking. it is a cash crop, not a food crop and there is a lot of food insecurity. plus, there is lot of child labour, 38% of children between 5— of intent work somewhere in the malawi economy and a lot of them on tobacco forms. they get nicotine poisoning handling the tobacco lee's. terrible. what is your policy on tobacco, do away with it in agriculture? no. ithink your policy on tobacco, do away with it in agriculture? no. i think you

cannot just say do it in agriculture? no. i think you cannotjust say do away it in agriculture? no. i think you cannot just say do away with it in agriculture? no. i think you cannotjust say do away with it. we are mindful of the anti—smoking lobby and the dangers associated with tobacco in terms of the nicotine, et cetera. we are also aware that we need to devise —— diversify away from tobacco and that is being done. will you do more of that? will have to do a lot more of that? will have to do a lot more of that but you cannot wish away that industry because it has got an impact on this is, transport, suppliers. you set the bar high yourself with the million jobs, why not tobacco? we have two diversify, not tobacco? we have two diversify, no two ways about it. it would not happen tomorrow. like the 1 million jobs, or not to that in one year because you got to diversify away from tobacco so you prove on your export earnings. —— improved. from tobacco so you prove on your export earnings. -- improved. you are ceo of air tel communications in malawi, what makes you think that

you can succeed where you think others have failed? first and foremost, success is a choice. think you thought saying that. i would like to see this, when i got voted into power in 2014 over as chairman of public sector reforms and the results are there for all to see. we started very well and we continue to say that for us to succeed we need a political driver, which i was graciously appointed to. we have recorded some successes. it is pointless to nominate them here, but the point is that there is a good record performance and with the labour of passion and the zeal and the know—how that i possess, i do not see why we cannot turn around the economy. we can do a lot to. if

i was given that opportunity, i would do it and perform wonders.” can say that. vice president of malawi, saulos chilima, thank you very much indeed for coming on heart book. thank you. thank you. -- coming on heart book. —— coming on hardtalk. hello. we have had some warmth in the sunshine this weekend, but by the end of the week things are looking much colder. more on that in a moment. slightly colder air behind sunday's cold front and north—westerly wind as we go through monday. this area of high pressure is a dominant feature through much of the week but this front is never too far away from the far north of scotland. that will bring strong winds, outbreaks of rain to 0rkney and shetland, some of that may filter to the northern highlands, but for much of scotland, northern ireland, england and wales, it is a dry and fine start to the new week.

some spells of sunshine. a little bit more cloud for western fringes through the afternoon and these are average wind strengths through monday, some strong gusts for northern and western scotland, 50—60 mph, locally 70mph. a windy day and a cool day, 10 or 11 celsius. a cool day across the weekend compared to the weekend, with highs generally between 12 and 14 celsius. for most, it stays dry through the evening and overnight. more persistent rain working its way southwards across scotland, particularly for northern and western scotland and those strong winds extending to northern england and northern ireland. further south it stays dry but quite breezy. all this combined, it would not be as cold a night as the one just gone, lows between 5 and 10 celsius. more persistent rain for scotland on tuesday, courtesy of this front, which is still here. notice the squeeze in the isobars, it's still windy particularly across scotland, northern ireland and into northern england. some strong winds compared to the weekend. and persistent rain particularly for northern and western scotland, not so much getting across to aberdeenshire, towards the borders. dry here and sunshine. cloud across north—west england and northern ireland, the best of the sunshine further south and east you are, helping temperatures up to 15 or 16 celsius.

similar temperatures for the eastern side of scotland, 12 or 13 further west. by the time we get to wednesday, our front has pulled away, looking dry across scotland, one or two showers, but then a fairly moist windflow, that will generate a little more cloud, but for most it stays dry. some spells of sunshine coming through, particularly across the east, temperatures up to 14 celsius. that mild air doesn't last very much longer, slowly we pull away as a go towards the weekend, this plunge of arctic air pushing its way southwards. it'll feel very much colder by friday and then into the weekend. those strong and cold northerly winds and the chance to see some snow in the hills of scotland and northern england. this is the briefing,

i'm sally bundock. our top stories: australia's prime minister gives a national apology to victims of child sexual abuse. to the children we failed, sorry. to the parents whose trust was betrayed, and who have struggled to pick up the pieces, sorry. as saudi arabia describes the killing ofjournalist jamal khashoggi as murder, turkey says it will reveal the entire truth about his death. the british prime minister will tell mps the brexit deal is nearly done. but will they believe her? italy's government defends its big spending plans, as another deadline looms in its showdown with the european union.