hello. it's wednesday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. this morning — how to stop the violence — a special programme on knife crime. 119 violent deaths in the capital so far this year... more than the whole of last year. today we bring together the met police, parents who've lost teenage sons, stabbing victims, ex gang members and residents of the capital to talk about what's behind the surge in violent crime, and how it can be tackled... earlier in the year i was stabbed ten times and here is one of my scars. my name is jennifer blake and at the age of 13, i got caught up in gangs. we need to come together as a community to stop this. good morning, i lost my son dwayne simpson to knife crime in 2014. he was killed with a sword. as parents, we are heartbroken and terrified

with the surge in knife crime. wherever you are in the country, do join the conversation. good morning, we're live until 11 this morning. we're not naive enough to think we'll find the answers in the next hour, but with this group of people — all of whom have direct experience knife crime in one way or another, we're going to try. here's annita with a summary of the day's news so far. the us democrats have taken control of the house of representatives in the mid—term elections, dealing a blow to president donald trump. it's the first time in eight years that the democrats have controlled the lower chamber of congress, and will enable them to subject the president to more

scrutiny than ever before. but mr trump's republicans are set to strengthen their grip on the senate. the president has called the result a "tremendous success". our washington correspondent chris buckler explained more about the significance of the democrats winning the house. it does make a real difference to president trump because up to this point, he has had republicans in both parts of congress essentially being able to push through the policies that he wants. yes, there have been times when he has been frustrated because there have been republicans who have decided that they don't want to back him, famously including the latejohn mccain and at times other senators as well who have felt uncomfortable. but generally, he has added his own way. all of that change is now because the democrats suddenly have this power orjust to block legislation is mentioned, they could also start to launch an inquiry and investigate things, potentially

looking into donald trump's tax affairs, whether there are potential conflict of interest, all things which will irritate donald trump. up to this point, he has felt that his way is the right way. if he wants to get things done, the suggestion is that he will have to work with democrats. and given those deep divides that exist in american politics right now, . .. and at 11 o'clock bbc news will have a special programme on the midterm elections — live from washington. the environment secretary, michael gove, has called for the cabinet to be given full legal advice on the irish backstop — the mechanism that would ensure there is no hard border between northern ireland and the republic. mr gove says there are concerns among ministers that they'll only be given a summary, before having to decide on whether to back a brexit deal with brussels. downing street says it doesn't comment on legal advice. 21 people, including children as young as 12 years old, have been found inside a refrigerated lorry entering the uk.

the group, thought to be from vietnam, were concealed among a load of sparkling water. they were found at the port of newhaven in sussex on thursday. details of the border force operation are just emerging, but a criminal investigation is under way. a romanian man has been charged with assisting unlawful entry into the uk. marks and spencer has reported a fall in clothing and food sales in the past six months. but six months after announcing a hundred store closures, pre—tax profits rose by 7%, to £127 million. the retailer said profits has risen because it had cut costs. but the boss, steve rowe, told the bbc "significa nt further change" was needed. heathrow airport is warning passengers to expect disruption to flights this morning because of a problem with runway lights. international flights were grounded overnight because some planes were unable to land in the dark. a spokesperson for the airport said the issue had been resolved, but warned passengers

to contact their airline before travelling. this morning, we're talking about knife crime. five fatal stabbings injust six days in london. 119 murders in the city this year. that's three more so far than in the whole of last year. and just last night two more young men, one a teenager, were stabbed in separate incidents just an hour apart — mercifully, they weren't killed. those are the bare statistics — they don't of course reveal the pain and devastation, the ripple effect through families, schools and communities when someone is killed in a stabbing or a shooting. today it's reported that doctors from an east london hospital are calling for school hometimes to be staggered to reduce the numbers stabbed on their way home. with sadiq khan, the city's mayor, warning this week that the tide

of violence afflicting london could take a generation to turn around, what can be done? and what's it like for those parents who've lost their children to violence? and what's it like for those parents who've lost their children to violence? and for other mums and dads, why would you let your teenager out in certain parts of london when kids are being stabbed to death in broad daylight? thousands of police officers have been cut from the met in recent years, but are the issues that led to these shocking statistics more deep—rooted and complex? we're devoting our programme today to the violence on london's streets — why it's surging and what needs to be done about it. people living here say there was a chase around the suburban streets... ..the exact spot where an hour later, this young 16—year—old was pronounced dead... ..and there's anger and fear at yet another killing. five deadly stabbings in six days on london's streets. the latest in tulse hill, to the south of the capital. the 16—year—old victim hasn't yet been named.

witnesses said he was found by his mum, lying on the ground. a kitchen knife was thrown in the bushes, less than 20 yards from the crime scene. people are getting used to it. 0h, they're just going out their business. even today, i'm looking out my window, people stopping by, looking, "oh, another one," and they're just going about their business, so it's like people are getting used to it, you know? it has to stop — we cannot be getting used to this! it comes just days after two more teenagers were stabbed to death. 15—year—old jay hughes was described as a sweet boy who wanted to become a cartoonist. he was killed at a fast—food shop in south—east london. not far away in clapham, crowds gathered to remember 17—year—old college student malcolm mide—madariola. one of his friends said, "he was sweet and nice, and used to message me when i was sad." the latest violence brings the number killed in london this year to 119.

that's already more than the whole of last year. 42 of those victims were under the age of 25. young men like rhyhiem ainsworth barton — the 17—year—old wanted to become an architect. in may, he was shot and killed, out playing football with his friends. let my son be the last, and be an example to everyone. just let it stop. in april, this 18—year—old was found fatally stabbed in forest green east london. a football supporter, he was killed as he arrived home from a west ham game, dying just metres from his own front door. your next door neighbours... really good kid.

do you miss him? yeah, i don't think i really understand that he's gone yet. let's speak to rico finlayson, who is 21 — rico spent six weeks in hospital after he says he was caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and repeatedly stabbed by a gang in london last year. barry and margaret mizen — ten years ago, barry and margaret's 16—year—old son jimmy was killed in an unprovoked attack in a london bakery. it was on january the 2nd it was onjanuary the 2nd and i remember my cousin stayed over. we hadn't seen him in a long time, so

it was good to see him again. it was a day when he decided he needed to go back to his house to see his pa rents, go back to his house to see his parents, but he spent the night over at ours. so we decided we wanted to go out and i always used to recommend this place, an indian restau ra nt recommend this place, an indian resta u ra nt i recommend this place, an indian restaurant i love to go to. and because it was so local to my friends' area, we decided to meet him. so it was me and my cousin and my friend, and i went to harrow, all rayners lane, precisely, and retarded to make our way to the restau ra nt — — retarded to make our way to the restaurant —— we decided to make our way to the restaurant. it was three minutes away from my friend's house. and we realised that there was a pack of people behind me, but i never paid too much attention to it at the start. and then a minute after, me and my cousin and my friend looked back and they were much closer than before. they seemed to bea much closer than before. they seemed to be a bit further away, so we

couldn't see. as they got closer, we realised they all had balaclavas and masks on and they were holding kitchen knives. they all had weapons in their hands. and after we realised that, we decided we had to run away because we were terrified. we didn't know what to do. i remember running away, and they were just really shouting out names, calling us so many things. and i remember gaining distance on them. so they wasn't really catching up as much. but then they got interrupted by two normal civilians who were out in the area on the night. and at that moment, we all froze because we thought the people in front of us we re thought the people in front of us were the people behind us who had been chasing us. can i ask how many times you were stabbed? ten times, all over my arm, my legs. i had to go through a lot of operations. i was in hospitalfor six weeks. it

wasn't a good experience. that is an understatement. you are comfortable showing our audience your scars, because i ask you earlier. would that be a that is fine. i have got one here. hold that up to the camera? and i have got one more here. can i ask about the ones on your chest, are you comfortable with that? yeah. this is where my operation happened. and also around here. are you able to describe what it feels like when you are stabbed ten times? at that moment, i had a lot of adrenaline, to be honest. but i remember the knives really piercing through my body. it was

shocking. once i was stabbed, i didn't have any strength to move. i collapsed on the floor. i had to protect my face because they were trying to get my face for some reason. how did you survive? i ask myself that question every day. i remember shouting for help. as soon asi remember shouting for help. as soon as i started shouting for help, they run away. they must have been shocked by my voice, because i was shouting pretty loud. how safe do you feel now? i don't feel safe at all. when i am in london, i don't even feel safe getting a bus. i get a taxi because the streets ain't safe a ny a taxi because the streets ain't safe any more. anything can happen. it could happen to anybody. in normal civilians like me can get stabbed, so anyone else can. martin is assistant commissioner at the metropolitan police. thank you for

taking time with us. when you hear a 21—year—old man said he does not feel safe at all on the streets of london, what do you say to him? the first thing is that what happened to rico is shocking and hideous and brings home to all of us how significant these actions are that people are taking. as a police officer, i find people are taking. as a police officer, ifind it people are taking. as a police officer, i find it upsetting that you don't feel safe in london. but i understand why you wouldn't. there is no doubt that there is far too much knife crime in london at the moment. any knife crime is too much. do you think we have let people like rico down? as a professional, i feel uncomfortable that not only rico, but others sitting here who have lost loved ones, i feel responsible. we are here to protect people. i don't think it's possible that we alone can provide all of this and we can never prevent everything. it is

out can never prevent everything. it is our single biggest priority to deal with this knife crime. but of course, with this knife crime. but of course , we with this knife crime. but of course, we have to do everything we can to try and make people feel safe. but & why someone like rico doesn't. my children travel on buses going into school in london. i have teenaged children who travel on buses. do you feel safe about your children going out? s‘ ifeel relatively safe. is that because they are white? i don't think so. the figures are shocking and any knife crime is too much. we have put in an enormous effort and we have reduced the number of people who have been stabbed. we are now seeing reductions, but one is still too many. and so many people get affected by it. rico was obviously enormously effective, but everyone close to him, that is what happens as well —— he was enormously

affected. lorraine jones, your son was killed or macro years ago —— four years ago. our does the violent crime in the capital at the moment make you feel? it is hard to put it into words, victoria. when i had to verify dwayne's body, he was so deformed, swollen. he was in a very bad way. i couldn't let the rest of the family see him. the past week has been extremely difficult for me, because it has spun me into the trauma again. the ripple effects are devastating. they are life—changing. ididn't devastating. they are life—changing. i didn't honestly imagine that i would feel like this today. and it's because of what is taking place. it's terrifying. as a community

leader, i have worked relentlessly through my pain and with what is being said about what is going to be done, i find being said about what is going to be done, ifind it being said about what is going to be done, i find it hard to look into parents' eyes and tell them that we are going to solve this, because there are failings. what are those failings? in my view, we need more to be done. in fact, we need what has already been said to be done by the government, from the police and from some of the community. we will talk about solutions later in the programme. i want to bring in barry and margaret. ten years ago, their 16—year—old son jimmy was killed and margaret. ten years ago, their 16—year—old sonjimmy was killed in an unprovoked attack in a london bakery. since then, they have campaigned to raise awareness of the potentially lethal unintended consequences of young people's

actions. i wonder what you say to somebody like lorraine? your son died ten years ago. you think about your children every day, of course. but what can you say to lorraine but may console her in some way? we meet lots of pa rents may console her in some way? we meet lots of parents who have been bereaved by violence, and we say, a lwa ys bereaved by violence, and we say, always talk about your children, which i am sure lorraine does. i think talking and sharing really helps. and we encourage them to bring something good out of what happened. and i know lorraine has. on the dayjimmy died, that night, i promisedjimmy on the dayjimmy died, that night, i promised jimmy that i would always do my best to keep his name in life and dedicate my life to working for peace. bringing something good out of it has beenjimmy‘s charity. i encourage everyone to do as much as they can to bring something good and

we are there if anyone wants to speak to us. let me tell the audience that we are seeing jimmy there on the screen. there are over 100 people on the streets of london might now who will not be walking the streets of london a year from now. because they will have been killed? in a violent incident. the most important thing we can do is to ca re most important thing we can do is to care for the victims and families of victims as much as we can to help them manage that new reality. it is also important that people are held to account for what has happened, and that will only happen if we allow the police to do theirjob. most importantly, the community must come together to try and find... not solutions, but let's work together to do prevention. forget 10—year plans for now. this is something that needs to happen today. if you are aware of something, young rico's attackers were never brought to

justice. if you are aware of information, please share that because that will bring a tiny bit of comfort. now, you are going to tell us about rahim, who you met as an eight—year—old boy. he was sent to jamaica to keep him out of trouble, effectively. he came back to britain. he wanted to make music, and three months later he was shot dead. how did that happen? there we re dead. how did that happen? there were a number of failings towards raheem. first and foremost, he attended six different schools between the age of eight and 16. for me, the issues around inclusion and exclusion for young people, its education and it should be informal and formal. i think they misunderstood raheem in that respect. he needed different support, and that was where i tried

to come in one encountered him at the age of eight, working for southwark council as a sports coach. i saw southwark council as a sports coach. isawa southwark council as a sports coach. i saw a young me and i want to be there for him. it was about getting to understand his place in society and where you could go in this hearing him towards his passions, which were music and sport. he just needed support and to talk to people and have them understand where he was able to go in society. and when you heard the news that he had been shot dead? he was with me that day. he was coaching with my football club, city of london fc, by the barbican. he came to learn how to be a coach. he was working there for three orfour a coach. he was working there for three or four weeks and enjoying it. i left him to go home with my brother, who got him home. it was a very hot day. we said, stay at home

and relax. if you want to go out, give titan or myself a call and we will take you out. we said to him, you are one mistake away from something happening again. and the mistake he made that day was leaving his house to go and play football rather than calling me and tyson, which we find hard to comprehend that he didn't take on board, that was just raheem. he was very forthright and wanted to do things his way. when i found out, i was never treated, because i was literally just with never treated, because i was literallyjust with him that day —— i was devastated. i am still trying to work through it. inter not letting anybody forget him. what about the ripple effect on siblings and wider family, friends, about the ripple effect on siblings and widerfamily, friends, schools, when a boy is killed in a violent incident? well, it affects so many people. it is notjust the parents

and siblings. i said boys because it is mostly boys. it is. but it is the whole effect on the whole community. five young people have been killed in london and that is affecting the whole of london. london is morning at the moment. we go outside to luton and other places. we travelled the country and we meet lots of people who say it is happening in our town. we have to do as much as we can. there are a lot of people crying today. we are going to talk about some of the reasons why in a moment. barry, how do you rationalise what happened tojimmy? by rationalise what happened tojimmy? by bringing something good from what happened to my son. thankfully, we have the strength to manage that. i like to talk about my son and share his story. but also, the impact we have on young people and the comments we get coming back, i think we are having some sort of effect on

the whole issue. do you think that through your son's story, you have been able to turn other teenagers away from knife crime or keep them of trouble? the biggest impact we haveis of trouble? the biggest impact we have is in engaging young people to get involved in the issues within their areas, to be change—makers and peacemakers. so not to be passive, not to wait for others to do stuff? no, which is so important. the majority of young people are wonderful young people. we need to do this for them and all humanity. we need to come together as a city. let me read messages from people watching. one of them says when i was 16, i was held up at knife—point in the hounslow area. within one minute of the event, i phoned the police and they told me if i don't know who they are, we can't do

anything about it. they drove around for a maximum of three minutes and told me they couldn't see the group. it was a group of around 16 men/ boys aged 14 to 21, and it seemed obvious to me that they could find them if they could be bothered. i would not ask you about that specific incident, but you do hear complaints that the police don't ta ke complaints that the police don't take some of this stuff seriously. sorry to interrupt. i am rico's father and shortly after the attack, the fallout was that no one has been held accountable. beyond that, the charges have been dropped. the police wrote to us to say, no further action. so seven matt attackers tried to kill my son six months ago and no one is being held the task. how difficult is that for you as a family? i as it was

horrendous, but it is actually normal. we never had faith in the police for starters as a community. and when we talk about things like racial profiling and all these other factors that have served as a barrier between the police force and the community, yet still they are here now, saying, we need your help. we need your help a long time ago. we need your help a long time ago. we need your help a long time ago. we need to be more active. we need to be everywhere now. we were the first people to feel the cuts. justin, do you want to come and sit here so that martin can address you directly? martin hewitt is an assista nt directly? martin hewitt is an assistant commissioner at the met. could you talk to justin assistant commissioner at the met. could you talk tojustin directly? obviously, it is hard to hear your personal experience of that and i'm aware that the people in the investigation that we were trying to bring tojustice, we

investigation that we were trying to bring to justice, we were not able to bring charges against those people. in each of these incidences, we will be doing everything we can. it doesn't stop if you get to that decision, and we work closely with the families. there are family liaison officers with each family. the families. there are family liaison officers with each familylj have had no support. the family has had no support. i have met with other partners to give my son trauma therapy. some of the things you are saying are great, but they are not real. when you are presenting over 119 deaths in yourjurisdiction and you are telling me it's perfectly safe for your children to travel on the bus, are you serious? i don't know one family member who feel safe to travel in london. but you see death every day and you think it is safe for your teenage children to be ona safe for your teenage children to be on a bus. i want to be in your world, because i don't see it. there are far too many deaths in london. it is important to say that those

119 deaths are not all young people. and they have not all taken place on the street. we need to be clear about that. i am not saying that eve ryo ne about that. i am not saying that everyone is safe. clearly, there are too many violent crimes happening. but in our city, with the scale of our city, i equally don't think that every single person is an safe all the time. that back i don't think every person is unsafe. we all feel u nsafe every person is unsafe. we all feel unsafe about issues, but the point about the support you had, i am really disappointed if that is what happened. i can certainly look at that, because we work with any family that are the victims when one of theirfamily family that are the victims when one of their family members family that are the victims when one of theirfamily members is killed or seriously injured. and it feels like it is getting worse. sorry, what is getting worse? the sense of a lack of feeling safe. i lost my son and i

didn't get support. i had to advocate for myself. when blame was killed, i had to wait three months before i could bury him. so he was on ice. i had to support my children. dwayne is one of seven, and because i am a pasta, i have a lot of people that i support. i had to mobilise around that because it took so long to find the killer. with the technology that we have today, the cctv, the policing skills, i am devastated that it was dropped. i have been hearing this from many families. i run a boxing gym. we are working with hundreds of children with some of our police office rs children with some of our police officers that are just excellent in lambeth. but still, i cannot sit

comfortably, because there are a lot of failings and the support for victims. .. of failings and the support for victims... speak to the victims themselves, it is not here. let me just cut in. the police can only work on the evidence they have. if they haven't got the evidence to arrest and prosecute, that evidence lies within our communities. this is a rallying call for everybody in london. if you have evidence, to allow some of these issues to at least be eased a wee bit, please come forward with the evidence. if the police the evidence. —— give the police the evidence. new labour it is strategic engagement which we have put forward. we know how to get it done but we are not given power to engage with young people. on thei on the i know you two have to leave us, barry and margaret, but thank you very much —— and i know that.

this can to do an acquisition teenagers. it is a serious problem in london and other areas have had a problem as well —— this is a serious problem as well —— this is a serious problem in london. eight of 44 police forces 38 recorded an increase, including the country's biggest force the met office —— out of. alone they have dealt with 190 murders. in a moment we will look at why this is happening. —— 119 numbers. —— 119 murders. police were called here to the tulse hill estate last night at ten to 11 to reports... as he was just 15 years old. another teenage knife crime victim... candles today at the spot where a 17—year—old boy was stabbed to death last week. five knife murders in less than a week is unusual in london.

detectives believe all of the stabbings are unrelated. overall, the murder rate in the capital has been rising. there have been 119 violent deaths since january, now higher than the whole of last year, with two months still to go. of those, 42 victims were young, from 16—24 years old. 20 were teenagers. the latest rise is most worrying when you look at the trend. violence in london does now seemed to be going back up from a low point of 83 killings in 2014. most of those deaths are in central london boroughs like southwark south of the thames, or waltham forest in the north—east. we just came out of our house, and our house was a crime scene, and it was like "what the hell?" we didn't know that it was... and where that window's boarded up there, that's where the gunshot went in, do you think? yeah. we just heard an awful yell, that you could only describe as just complete fear, then i saw sammy approach someone and he wasjust shouting, "i've been attacked."

but that date only show is part of what's going on. if you go further back, we are still well below the murder rate at the start of the century, when drug and gun activity spiked. when you look at knife crime more widely, again there's been a significant rise over the last five years. police say those crimes are getting more serious, with more group attacks, and weapons like machetes used more often. many will say that the met police doesn't have a handle on it, or you haven't had a handle on it over the last year? no, i don't agree with that. the figures are too high, i definitely agree with that, but that's why it's such a high priority for us. the reasons why this is happening are complex. some blame the rise in social media, others cuts to police budgets. injune, the mayor of london said there are now 3.3 officers for every 1,000 people, the lowest rate in 20 years. others point to a reduction in stop—and—search. there were 135,000 searches in london in a year tojune, down from a peak of 600,000 a decade ago. but it's difficult to blame any

single factor for the rise in violence, and that makes itjust as difficult to start tackling the problem. let's carry on this conversation. if you are just let's carry on this conversation. if you arejustjoining us on bbc news or bbc two, we are continuing the conversation about the knife crime epidemic. we spoke to a young man who was stabbed at the start of the programme who said he does not feel safe in london at the moment, and we just heard from his dad as well. we heard from the parents who had lost sons, itjust heard from the parents who had lost sons, it just happens heard from the parents who had lost sons, itjust happens to be sons. we're talking about why there is a rise in violent crime. jennifer and enrique, you were both in gangs. jennifer, you were in a gang from the age of 13, arrested over 30 times and you turned your life around. what attracted you to the gangin around. what attracted you to the gang in the first place? a lot of

things attract. at the end of the day i think for me it was a cultural battle i was going to. when you were 13? what do you mean? when you are 13, you don't think, "i'm in the middle of a cultural battle, i'm going tojoin a middle of a cultural battle, i'm going to join a gang." my periods arejamaican and i was going to join a gang." my periods are jamaican and i was born here, so for me going to school, i started at secondary school, so for me to go to school and the girls looking different, in church, the way i looked, the way i had to go home after school finished, it was just this battle i was going through with my identity, understanding who i was as an individual. why did i gang attract you? i was now seeing girls that were different than me, and they were doing things that seemed exciting, because i was more at home, or it was from home to church, home, or it was from home to church, home to church, so it was like, i'm seeing girls and they are doing different things, it was exciting, that adrenaline, because they were

doing things i wanted to be part of. for me, it was, "i'm enjoying this, let me do what they're doing," and thatis let me do what they're doing," and that is where the problem started. what kind of violent activities did you get in? so the initiation, and that hasn't stopped today... what does that mean? having to go through initiation to prove yourself, that you are worthy to be part of it, and it was knife—point robberies. it started off petty with shoplifting, then bigger, knife—point robberies, thenit then bigger, knife—point robberies, then it started being beating people up. the initiations went up to a stage where sexual exploitation through girls, and itjust went through girls, and itjust went through every stage, trying to prove yourself that you are worthy to be pa rt yourself that you are worthy to be part of this family you are in. enrique, at 21, you have been arrested for attempted murder, violent disorder, criminal damage and carrying a knife. you have been involved in many dangerous

activities, you've been stabbed on three separate occasions. you nearly died. what was influencing you, motivating you to live that kind of life? first of all i didn't decide to become a gang member, i never thought i would become a proper gang member. it kind of all started in school, growing up with the people in my area, in the same school and stuff like that, it all started like a family, to be honest. we all started one day after school, and a close friend of mine got stabbed in front of me, and from there, you know, we decided to take revenge, and that is where everything started off. i was stabbed at the age of 17 andl off. i was stabbed at the age of 17 and i nearly lost my life, and that same yearl and i nearly lost my life, and that same year i was arrested for attempted murder... did you try to sta b attempted murder... did you try to stab someone? bill-mac, i didn't, but after i got stabbed and nearly lost my life that is when i gave my life to christ and turned my life

around. right. what about the other reasons why? dan, david, what do you say, from your work, your experience, why do people get involved, well, carry a knife, either end up using it or getting involved in some violent incident?” think a lot of people get involved, and the youth work i do, and what i hear about, they are looking for a place of belonging, but they are also... the whole thing about not being safe on the streets, so they don't feel safe on the streets, like we are hearing parents don't feel their children are safe on the streets. one of our youth leaders the other day went to go and pick up a young person to take him out for the day in the period came out, the mother, and said, "don't forget your knife,"... to the child? how mother, and said, "don't forget your knife,". .. to the child? how old was the child? about 13 years old. wow, that is unbelievable. what is going on there? children don't feel safe, pa rents on there? children don't feel safe, parents don't feel safe, and it carries on. i had a six-year-old threatening me with a knife in a school situation, so the situation is getting worse and getting younger. i think we need early intervention... what does that mean?

as in yearone intervention... what does that mean? as in year one or two, because children don't understand the consequences of holding a knife. what we have now is a problem, gangsters are waiting outside schools and picking off the most vulnerable parents, targeting them, and we need to make sure we get in early to prevent this from actually ever happening. what about other reasons? cressida dick, your boss, she has spoken about obviously social media, said insurers of music, the county lines operation, vulnerable kids being used to sell crack cocaine in counties around, what are your thoughts, martin? definitely i would agree with everything being said so far. we have a really clear role to play around enforcement, we do, but getting ourselves out of this situation will not be a police solution entirely, and there are far too many young people for whom the kind of things we just spoke about

are just normal existence and normal life, and i think for lots of these young people, they are finding themselves drawn into a way of behaving. it's not a positive choice. in some cases, it might be, but you are drawn into this situation then you are surrounded, as you see, even at a very young e, as you see, even at a very young age, surrounded by these kind of behaviours. the drug issue we spoke about, the so—called county lines, with... and it is almost like apprenticing young children into being involved in carrying the drugs, so the younger ones will be carrying drugs to different places, they are then in a position where they are then in a position where they are then in a position where they are being asked to sort through initiation rites, as wasjust spoken about there, they are witnessing violence, seeing the criminality, and that makes it incredibly hard for those young people to get out of that situation later down the line. i guess what is really key... have worked in this area for years and there is no one single answer, and i think that is often... when it gets reported or people speak about it, they want to come up with "the

answer is this," but the answer is there are whole range of different reasons, people are in fear, and when we have period advising children to take knaves, that is really scary, i think —— we have parents advising children. at the same thing we have youngsters drawn m, same thing we have youngsters drawn in, and by the time they get to their mid—teens, and it is really ha rd their mid—teens, and it is really hard for them at that stage to take a different direction. are we talking about cressida dick that had to quit... no, that is the head of the net, you are talking about the former home secretary.” the net, you are talking about the former home secretary. i am a coach of the anti—knife crime forum in southwark, which supports and works with a southwark, which supports and works witha numberof southwark, which supports and works with a number of parents and young people in a number of settings, you know, across the borough. ithink there is something about demystifying the myth of a gang getting you rich, it's going to give you money... it's true, that does happen. you do get rich in gangs. you money... it's true, that does happen. you do get rich in gangsm does, but for a lot of young people

actually their lives are sacrificed on the street for it. being in a gang doesn't make you rich. with the police, i actually think you need to not look at this as a black issue where black kids are being profiled more than whites. if you stop more white and other ethnic groups with a stop and search on the street, you will find more knaves, and i have been listening in the old bailey for weeks, my name is saundra, and these we re weeks, my name is saundra, and these were friends, not a gang, they met in primary school, three white, one mixed race, one black, not a typical scenario, and they are from luton. basically if you don't start getting the resources, and the government needs to give your resources, to do your job, needs to give your resources, to do yourjob, keeping these young people in check, helping the schools and pa rents to in check, helping the schools and parents to work with them, that you will have a situation where more young people will have knives, because they are all armed, even the

victim who was murdered. we are going to read some messages. "on twitter —— knife crime is multifaceted and we need to stop labelling it as black—on—black violence." another one, "surely the reason is the lack of law enforcement, and immediate reinstatement of the police officers cut since 2010 is essential," "then a steady growth so the population feels safe in their homes and communities." "i'm a mum of three teenagers and i am trying to move the outside of london because i know my kids are not safe." "the police don't care, they have no time. gun and knife crime is here to stay until the ipa stabbed. was caught on that point, assistant commissioner martin hewitt, you have said knife deaths are not cause in the collective outrage they should because the majority of victims are from black communities. the reality is the majority of the young boys being killed and who are being seriously injured or black boys in london, and we can dance around, and, you know, that is not about, i

know people have used the word profiling, but that is a fact of what is happening, and when we speak about the fear and how much this is in communities, it is not spread evenly across the communities of london. and then i think you get to some of the points made at the beginning, for me, it is about some young people in london are growing up young people in london are growing up in theirlife young people in london are growing up in their life opportunities are limited, in various different ways, which turned them into a path where they find themselves in a place where this kind of violence is what is happening, and that is certain communities, and many of those communities, and many of those communities are a minority communities are a minority communities in london, but too many of the young boys that are being seriously injured and killed our black boys, and we have to be honest about that in the way we do deal with. is there a link between the net having a nap around 2000 fewer officers since 2010 and the rise in violent crime? —— having around 2000 viewer. there is no doubt we are

under enormous stretch in terms of what we are trying to do policing wise, and this is our absolute priority, dealing with violence, but as people know there are many other things we have to deal with. this is the number one priority. are number one priority at the moment, quite rightly so when you listen to stories. michael, let me introduce you. alsojoining us is michaeljonas snr. michael's17—year—old son — also called michael — was killed in south london one year ago but no one has been caught for the crime. you see the worst moment of your life was seeing your teenage son in hospital. i got the chance to see my son not alive, i got a chance to see his motionless body, and that's when i went... iweb to identify this person, and i'm still going to the hospital, thinking to myself, "this

can't be michael," —— i went to identify. but after arriving at the hospital, and these people ask me a few questions, and the answers to the question was "yes", and they said to me, "confirm. we will let you into that room," and i went into the room and it was michael... so... at that moment... even though i was saying it and stuff like that, i just wasn't believing it was really michael that i have spoken to a few days ago. because you were in denial. and i keep asking myself, is this michael?

i remember i went back and i rang his phone, i rang his number, but no answer. so, yeah, at the time, i kept thinking to myself, "yeah, that's really michael there," so luckily it took an amount of pictures, which are still open to this moment. and when your team, which was a few days ago, —— when one year past, which was a few days ago. i still can't really get over that michael is lying in the cemetery. what's my main problem now? it that i keep thinking to myself, "maybe... there

are good doctors in london who can maybe go back to the cemetery and get michael out. those caught but, you know, he's gone —— but, you know, he is gone. he has deteriorated, and everything. his body, ashes to ashes, as you know, he is back to the earth. can i ask you, michael, how do you deal with the fact that you have brought this little boy into the world, you have brought him up, threw been a toddler, through primary school, you have got him almost to secondary school, then he is taken from you, just on the verge of becoming an adult? the last time i was with michael, i remember, i hugged him.

we were walking in norwood, and i hugged him. and i was saying to michael, "now you're becoming a big man, now," and he said, "oh, yeah," andi man, now," and he said, "oh, yeah," and i said to him," this is what daddy is going to do now," and i told him all the things i would do for him, because michael reached the stage where even though i have other kids, i reached a stage with michael where i had to see him through, so had to put him through because he was the biggest boy, so i made my mind up, i'm going to do everything for michael. i planned a holiday, to ta ke for michael. i planned a holiday, to take on holiday, as and son. it was just going to be me and michael alone. —— as father and son. i promised him i was even going to buy him or paired for his 17th birthday, but after contacting relatives and

family members, and we disagreed about how we thought michael —— i was going to buy him a moped for his 17th birthday. we thought he would be driving all over the place, he would have traffic offences, then the more major things, crushing and killing himself. you thought it would be too dangerous? then i thought, i would feel so bad about buying michael a moped. and michael, stabbed by people, he lost his life, andi stabbed by people, he lost his life, and i feel so bad, stabbed by people, he lost his life, and ifeel so bad, because i thought, if i bought michael motorbike, michael would have been moving faster, so at that time when he was in that part you wouldn't have been there, because he would have been there, because he would have been there, because he would have been moving, he maybe would have been moving, he maybe would have roared past that part if they had to pass it, and he would have been elsewhere —— he would have rode

past that park. we don't know why michael was in the park with those people... i would just like to see, we are here discussing knife crime. cressida dick has given a sharp focus on the community, and all the problems at the moment, music, you know, all coming from the community. myself, the guys behind me, everyone else here, we have been working in the community for ever. we were the first people to bear the brunt of that cuts crime, so white can't we see why things have exasperated with cuts crime, as i am calling it? economic sanctions on communities. this is why we will have more situations like michael and so forth, if you don't get the funding to the people, like ourselves, who are happy to be on the front line helping communities. talking about cuts, youth services, budgets, they have been cut by £21 million since 2011, 2012. 36% in cash terms. they

cannot bear the brunt of this. we need to have employment, training, real meaningful opportunities to get used off the streets. they have hopes and they have dreams. they have futures. a lot of those youths on the streets, you know, because it riles me, because i have mentored so many boys over the last 10—15 years, and girls too, who are straight a students, who have potential, and that potential has just students, who have potential, and that potential hasjust not been harnessed... to add to that, i have been working with young people since age of 18 and i am 36, that half my life. i got fed up working for the public sector, and i set it up myself, because i couldn't wait for charitable donations in order to carry out my work. let me just finished. i'm a limited country the

company, we go direct to the schools and negotiate contracts, and we shouldn't be having to do that. we are talking about now going into schools and talking to primary age children about being safe and about why you should not carry a knife. we have these doctors today in an east london hospital, it has been reported, saying "what about staggering home time?" what you think about that, jennifer? good idea or not? every idea, it is an idea. young people are being stabbed at night time as well, so what we put in place for that? is it asbos? what we do? there is a problem, like isaid, what we do? there is a problem, like i said, that needs to be tackled first. i'm the british taxpayer, right. i pay 100,000, conservatively, to lock up a young child in a prison cell. that's £100,000 of my money, yet it is

30,000 pairs to send someone to eton. what are we doing, as i have a choice i would rather spend 30,000 -- £30,000 to choice i would rather spend 30,000 —— £30,000 to send someone to eton. would the late night we know the profile of people who go on to commit this yet still we are not allowed to work with them. yet you wa nt allowed to work with them. yet you want to give the funding to prisons and everyone else, yet you have seen the relationship... 20 years ago i said we needed a family support model to go in and do the work... we are aware we are now. we still need to do the work with families... hang on, iwant to do the work with families... hang on, i want to spread it around everybody. to see what the home office is doing, they say we are consulting on a new approach on tackling serious violence. they have done this in glasgow, we reported it from there, and it has been phenomenally successful, they halved their murder rate over a period of time. they say it would see police officers, local authority and health ca re officers, local authority and health care professionals, being given a new legal duty to take action to prevent it. a new legal duty? is

that some kind of symbolism. you have a moral duty. we very clearly have a moral duty. we very clearly have a moral duty. we very clearly have a legal duty. i have worked in the past with that model up in scotland, and the model in glasgow is good. and i was with the people from scotland only a couple of weeks ago. they accept, you can'tjust pick that up and drop it into a city like london. but the point is the basis of that model is about all the things that have just been talked about, hitting those issues, why someone ends up with the late opportunity that puts them into... and it is about education and prevention —— ends up with a life opportunity. home office as we have also announced a new £29 endowment fund full stop former home secretary amber rudd put some money towards that, in the net. —— endowment fund. and former home secretary amber rudd. what would help you to see for going out at it? it would be nice to going out at it? it would be nice to go on the street and not to see

people, you know, how the criminal is get up, usually, tracksuits and that, and every time i see that it brings me back to that day where i got stabbed, so it makes me feel a little paranoid in a way. if there we re little paranoid in a way. if there were more officers there, perhaps the criminals would recede?” were more officers there, perhaps the criminals would recede? i would like more police officers to be able to do more than we do now but we are never going to be on every street, every day, and i think that's a slightly different point.” slightly different point. ijust wa nt to slightly different point. ijust want to say i spoke to our minister for policing. my name is saundra, andi for policing. my name is saundra, and i spoke about cuts. there is one in bedfordshire. making people aware of the consequences of carry a knife. they need to be aware of the bad character rap when you go into the courts. it is life limiting. why are to be teaching our kids about the life limiting opportunities if they get a bad rap by carrying a knife? have to read this message

then we will hear from... sorry, just because we need to carry on. this bureau says "i'm a black man of middle age and i can tell you this stuff simply characterises black people as pathologically violent. it is not a black issue if you use statistics properly. " very briefly, solutions? i have heard what everyone says and everyone has made a lot of good points. the solution is not having more police officers because, again, you can have many people, but if they don't know what to do we'll have the same crime. it is also not giving young people any consequences and stuff like that, because a young person knows the consequences of carrying a knife anyway. i am a pastor at spac nation andl anyway. i am a pastor at spac nation and i will just anyway. i am a pastor at spac nation and i willjust be very honest, for the last few years have seen hundreds of young people's legs being changed by the methods we put in place at spac nation, we have had gang members coming to the church, becoming leaders of the community. it is as simple as that... sorry, we

are coming right to the end of the programme. because you said, "i have turned my life around, you can do this as well"? that is the end, i'm sorry. thank you very much. really appreciate your time. thank you very much for coming on the programme. and, clearly, the competition will continue. thank for your company as well. bbc newsroom live is next. good morning. if you stepped outside already you will be familiar with sites like this. really soggy out and about. very little in the way of sunshine. you can see the massive cloud across the uk this morning and this is the heaviest rain sitting across the west of scotland and into northern ireland where it will pretty much stay for the rest of the day. heavy showers following elsewhere particularly in southern and western areas, and we have already had a few points of

lightning is that is certainly possible, the odd thunder rumbled. not as mild as yesterday but a southerly breeze is quite strong, so if it is 12 degrees it is of course tempered by all the cloud and rain around. the wind as well. we do finally lose that as we go through the night, little ridge of high pressure ensuring it will be chilly, frost and eastern areas, but then again tomorrow the front invigorates itself across the western side of the country. some areas will see yet more rain. already an engine some western areas through the night and another inch of rain to come tonight and again potentially for tomorrow. a rather wet and windy day on friday. you're watching a us election special on bbc world news. i'm laura trevelyan.

a divided america becomes even more divided. in a blow to president trump, democrats capture the house of representatives for the first time in eight years. todayis today is more than about democrats and republicans, it's about restoring the constitutions, checks and balances to the trump administration. but republicans gain ground in the senate, with a number of democrats losing their seats. and i'm lucy hockings in london. president trump calls the results a tremendous success, but what does this mean for his agenda? the president is going to continue doing exactly what he came to washington to do. an election of firsts, two muslim women and the first native american women willjoin congress.