hello, it's friday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm chloe tilley. our top story — we've got an exclusive interview with the only female afghan barrister currently practising in britain, who says she's been sacked by her clients several times because of her race. one defendent told her, "i want someone white because the judge will believe them". we'll speak to rahana popal, live from outside the court where she's working today. the women who risk their lives to have a baby. this programme has been inside a unique clinic offering new hope to women who've had a heart attack and want to have a child. and i spoke about it at length with my cardiologist and hejust said, you know, "i think it's best you put that out of your mind". since the high court's decision to block the parole granted to the serial sex offender, john worboys, the new head of the parole board says panels have lost confidence in their decisions, causing long delays in the release of prisoners.

the board was subject to an unprecedented amount of publicity, the like of which we hadn't experienced before. i think there was a loss of confidence amongst ourselves a little bit and perhaps a loss of confidence in the wider public and that was something that i'm very keen to repair. we'll speak to a woman whose daughter was murdered 30 years ago. she has had to face a parole board many times and says it's a frightening experience for victims and theirfamilies, and panels need to treat them with more respect. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. have you been banned from using social media at work? some parents are asking nannies to sign contracts stopping them from using social media, for fear they will become too absorbed and not look after the kids properly. should we all face a ban on facebook, twitter and instagram at work?

or do we need to be trusted to know when it's appropriate and when it isn't? does it depend the on job? tell me your experiences this morning. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about. use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. good morning, it's 10 o'clock. here's annita in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the day's news. good morning. the only female afghan barrister practising in the uk has told this programme she wants the ministry ofjustice to take action on diversity, after several defendants sacked her because of her race. rehana popal, who's an immigration and civil law specialist, says one defendant said they wanted "someone white because the judge will believe them". she says that although discrimination is never deliberate,

the justice system has to show diversity. and chloe will be speaking to ms popal in the next few minutes. the new head of the parole board says the release rate for prisoners has fallen since the high court's decision in march to block the parole granted to the serial sex offender, john worboys. in herfirst interview, caroline corby told the bbc that her organisation had lost the confidence of the public. she said fewer prisoners were being released and panels were demanding more information before making decisions. australian police have said they're treating a knife attack in the centre of melbourne as terrorism. one person was killed and at least two others wounded in the incident. the suspect who was shot and then arrested at the scene has died in hospital. the uk economy grew by 0.6% in the last quarter, according to the latest figures. the office for national statistics says the economy saw a strong summer, although longer—term economic growth remained subdued. there were some signs of weakness in september,

with slowing retail sales and a drop in domestic car purchases. a 16—year—old girl has been arrested suspicion of murder over the stabbing of a man in south london. ayodeji habeeb azeez, who was 22, was stabbed and pronounced dead in anerley on sunday. the teenager is the third person to be arrested over the attack. two men, aged 19 and 21, were arrested on suspicion of murder on sunday and both have been released under investigation. the dup has accused the prime minister of breaking promises over plans to avoid a hard irish border post—brexit. the party reacted angrily to a letter from theresa may to dup leader arlene foster, which was leaked to the times. in it, mrs may explains the eu wants a contingency of northern ireland staying in a customs union if no border solution is found during the post—brexit transition period. downing street reiterated the pm is committed to avoiding a hard border. there's been a sharp decline in the number of children

being born globally. a report published in the lancet says that in 1950, women were having an average of around five children in their lifetime, but that figure has now halved. cyprus has the lowest birth rate in the world, with women there having one child on average. the prime minister is in belgium, where she has laid a wreath to honour the fallen soldiers of the first world war. ceremonies are taking place in the belgian city of mons, and at thiepval cemetery in france. they will start three days of remembrance events, including a concert at the royal albert hall and wreath—laying at the cenotaph, to mark the centenary of the armistice deal which ended the four—year conflict. that is a summary of the main news today. back to you. do get in touch with us throughout the morning. use the hashtag victoria live.

if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. the only female afghan barrister practising in the uk is calling on the ministry ofjustice to take action on diversity after she says several defendants sacked her because of her race. one told rehana popal, "i want someone white because the judge will believe them". and in the latest case, the client said he didn't want an asian woman but a white man to represent him. rehana popaljoins us now from outside a court in north london, where she's working today. first of all, just take us through some of the instances where you have been pulled off cases because of your race. i mean, the most recent one is the one i tweeted about, whereby a solicitor called me to say

the client no longer wanted to instruct me because they wanted a white male barrister. unfortunately, it has happened several times in the past and it is just, it has happened several times in the past and it isjust, sadly, the reality that ethnic minorities like myself have faced while at the bar. is this racism on the part of clients or is this clients being savvy and saying, "you know what? i'm going to get a better outcome because of the justice system being swayed towards white people".|j think it is a mixture of both. there will obviously have do hold some kind of prejudicial views for them to have come to say that. —— they will obviously. but equally, there isa will obviously. but equally, there is a serious problem in relation to perception here. whichever way we look at it, the problem i have had is that clients have thought that their cases would be more likely to be believed by a judge if it was presented by a white male barrister. that is a serious concern because if

they are having that perception, then there's something wrong in how then there's something wrong in how the justice system is then there's something wrong in how thejustice system is being perceived to outsiders. that needs to be remedied urgently. do you think this is about race or being a woman 01’ think this is about race or being a woman or both? both, squarely both. imean, woman or both? both, squarely both. i mean, every single time when it has been said to me, it is always the alternative is not, i want a white female, it has always been clearly a nd white female, it has always been clearly and specifically a white male. so it is in equal measures both, in my opinion. when you talk to female colleagues and indeed male collea g u es to female colleagues and indeed male colleagues about this, are you finding that there is a pattern for other women and ethnic minority barristers? from the twitter response, it has been incredibly overwhelming, and actually, so many people have now reached out and got in touch with me and said, "me, too, actually, i have had this". 15 years

ago, people have said they were refused instruction because they we re refused instruction because they were jewish refused instruction because they werejewish or because they were indian. actually, it has been men and women who have come back and said this has happened to them. i think there is a wider problem but i'm glad i've started the conversation where people have now started to reach out and say, "actually, this is happening". on a personal level, what does it do to you to receive those phone calls?m is very heart—warming to know i'm not on my own, that i have a wider backing from those in the profession. i have had some backlash which has been difficult to deal with, but if i can be in a very small way a part of igniting this conversation and perhaps leading to positive change and actions, then i'm happy to be a part of this in that sense. i wasn't clear, what i meant was, how does it feel when you

get a phone call from a solicitor, saying, "bit awkward, the client does not want to use you"? how does that make you feel? clearly, as a professional it makes you feel one way but on a personal level, it must hit hard. yeah. do you know what is really sad in all of this? i am numb to it now. it has happened so often that when it happens, it is kind of almost, rolling your eyes, it has happened again. the first time it happened, it was heartbreaking but it has happened so much that i kind of thing that is just the way the world is. ifi of thing that is just the way the world is. if i let it consume me, it would really affect me. so i have just got to shrug it off and move on and let my work speak for itself. do you think solicitors should be stronger with their clients and say, "hang ona stronger with their clients and say, "hang on a minute, she is the best person to carry out this work for you, we are not removing the instruction"? i would love if a

solicitor would do that. ifully understand that the solicitor has do, at the same time, deal with the client's request. i think all that would happen in the future is that the client would... would put their request in a different manner, like, "i wanta request in a different manner, like, "i want a different barrister because i've heard really good things about this person and i would prefer them or i think i would have a better relationship with them". they can put it inside me different ways. it is a difficult one but i wish solicitors could or should do more, potentially. should the rules changed so clients effectively dead dues their barrister but the solicitor chooses who they believe would be the best person to represent them? that is a very difficult one to square because on one hand, choice is very important. it is important individuals can choose who they want to represent them. i have had clients where i have been dealing with serious allegations like rape and the client has chosen to have a barrister of

the same sex as opposed to me. it is important that they feel comfortable in them telling their story with their barrister. it is difficult but i think we need to put in further buffers or rules to ensure that barristers are not disconnected against on the basis of their gender 01’ against on the basis of their gender or ethnic orientation. what needs to change now? i think there needs to be an honest dialogue. i think there needs to be more barristers who come out, all solicitors, who can come out, all solicitors, who can come out and say, firstly, that this is an issue they have faced and secondly how they have dealt with it and be frank about the difficulties in coming out to speak about this. without an honest dialogue, we can't honestly move on to a solution. what the solution is, i can't be, i don't have an answer at this precise moment in time. the only thing i can say is that i think solicitors should stand more firmly and

strongly with their barrister, and be clear to clients about what request they can make. let me read you a statement from the ministry of justice. "the lord chancellor is committed to increasing the diversity of our world—renowned judiciary, and we are pleased that recent statistics show increased black and ethnic minority and gender representation. but we know more must be done, and we recently launched a programme to help more candidates from underrepresented groups apply to be judges." so what should the ministry of justice do now in your view?|j so what should the ministry of justice do now in your view? i think it needs to... it is one thing try to diversify the judiciary but the reality is, the judiciary is recruited from barristers or from solicitors who have been in a profession for 10—15 years. we are dealing with an historic problem. we need to go deeper than that. the ministry ofjustice needs to do more in the recruitment and retention of female barristers and solicitors, both coming to the bar and stevie

solicitors profession. i think there needs to be a better in recruiting individuals from bme backgrounds and more women so individuals from bme backgrounds and more women so eventually, in about ten or 15 years, when it comes to recruiting from the profession for the judiciary, recruiting from the profession for thejudiciary, they recruiting from the profession for the judiciary, they have a wider pool to choose from. it is very difficult for the law at this stage, for the judiciary difficult for the law at this stage, for thejudiciary to be recruiting more bme candidates when in fact, the reality is, they are disproportionately underrepresented because historically, they have been underappreciated. we need to look further because we need to go beyond just thejudiciary but further because we need to go beyond just the judiciary but how we recruit and retain young people in the profession. thank you for joining us. we will let you get on with your day job now. joining us. we will let you get on with your dayjob now. rehana popal in north london, there. at the start of the year, the parole board was thrown into crisis and the man in charge forced to resign. it was over a decision to release a serial sex offender from prison. john worboys was convicted of rape and a number of sexual assaults, but police believe he may have

assaulted 100 more women. the parole board originally said he would be released, but the high court overturned that decision. so what went wrong? and what repercussions have there been? the new chair of the parole board has been talking to the bbc‘s home affairs correspondant danny shaw. he's here now. hello. just remind people, people will be familiar with the namejohn worboys but reminders of the background. he was known as the black lab rapists for carrying out a number of drug assisted sexual assault in rates, plying women with champagne on the pretext he had won the lottery —— the black cab rapist. he essentially assaulted them. he was convicted of a relatively small number of attacks but police believe he had carried out dozens more. the question for the parole board was whether it was safe for him to be released and a 3—person panel concluded it was but the high court then found they had made a serious error because they had not taken

account of this pattern of wider alleged offending. the decision was overturned. the parole board is now reconsidering the case ofjohn worboys, a separate panel of people is looking at the case now. it has led to a real lack of confidence in the parole board, hasn't it? yes, thatis the parole board, hasn't it? yes, that is certainly the concern of the new chair, caroline corby, who took over from new chair, caroline corby, who took overfrom nick hardwick, who new chair, caroline corby, who took over from nick hardwick, who was forced to step down by thejustice secretary, david gauke. there were questions about the independence of the parole board because of that decision and forced removal. caroline corby says she had it written into her contract that there will be a process if the secretary of state wants to remove her, an independent process. she's also very concerned about the ethnic make—up of the parole board. it has 240 members, the people that make decisions about the release of prisoners and those 240, only 13 are from ethnic minority backgrounds and none of them are black. when you consider that across england and wales, some 22,000 prisoners are

from ethnic minorities, and 10,000 of them are black, then you can see the significant concern that caroline corby suggests they have around that. the parole board has been making changes, it has become more transparent, 500 case summaries, summaries of the decisions it has made, has been sent to victims of crime so there is more openness. further changes are under way and there will be a review mechanism so people can challenge decisions more easily and wider reforms the government is looking at, too. buti reforms the government is looking at, too. but i have been talking to caroline corby and i asked her about the impact of thejohn worboys case and what effect that had had on the release of prisoners since then. when i took over as interim chair in april, it was obviously a very difficult period for the board. we saw the departure of our previous chair in difficult circumstances. the board was subject to an unprecedented amount of publicity, the like of which we hadn't experienced before. i think there was a loss of confidence amongst ourselves a little bit and perhaps a loss of confidence in the wider public.

that was something i'm very keen to repair. i genuinely do think we take our risk assessment responsibilities extremely seriously. that loss of confidence, did that manifest itself in members being more risk averse? these things are hard to exactly measure. we do not have a target release rate. our members see each case and decide it on its merits. but if you look over a long period of time, our release rate is around 49%. in the immediate aftermath of the worboys case, that dropped to about 42%. it has since come up to around 46% so i think we are returning to trend levels, but i think we did see that a little bit in the release rate, perhaps a loss of confidence and we also saw more adjournments and deferrals. i think that's very understandable given that in the worboys case, there was some criticism about the dossier, and whether all the documents were in the dossier that should have been. i think understandably,

panel members are feeling they want to be absolutely sure they've got everything they should have and if they haven't got it, they are asking for a case to be adjourned or deferred. thank you forjoining us. but has the parole board changed enough, and has it become harder to be released ? here to talk about this is simon creighton, a solicitor who regularly represents offenders at parole board hearings. marie mccourt is in salford. marie's daughter helen was murdered 30 years ago, when she was 22, and marie is campaigning for a new law that would stop prisoners being released unless they show remorse. and mark day is here from the prison reform trust. thank you forjoining us. i want to start by speaking to you, marie, if i may. as someone who has been through such a terrible ordeal, and

somebody who has regularly had to go to pa role somebody who has regularly had to go to parole board hearings, what went through your mind when you heard that initial decision thatjohn worboys was going to be released, before it was overturned? worboys was going to be released, before it was overturned ?|j worboys was going to be released, before it was overturned? i was absolutely horrified, more so because none of the people who were his victims had even been notified, as far as his victims had even been notified, as farasi his victims had even been notified, as far as i am his victims had even been notified, as far as i am aware. his victims had even been notified, as far as i am aware. they hadn't been notified of his release until it went public. do you think that there is enough attention given to victims' families and survivors of crime when it comes to these parole board hearings? when it comes to the pa role board hearings? when it comes to the parole board hearings, i think that we are sort of at the very bottom rung of the ladder. we are there, purely to read a statement as to how the release of this person and the crime they committed against either oui’ crime they committed against either our loved ones, murdered, or if you area our loved ones, murdered, or if you are a victim of that crime. they

need to listen carefully to what these people are saying. it is very difficult for them to go into a prison and read a statement out to a pa role prison and read a statement out to a parole board. they have to remember, we are going into the prisoner's home and therefore, we are on edge again over that. the parole board only seem interested, to me, in how it has affected us, like it will help them in some little way, but i don't think they take our statements fully into contacts over the release of the prisoner. i think they make the decision themselves. —— fully into context. they make the decision regardless of what the victim or theirfamily say regardless of what the victim or their family say about the crime. simon, you regularly represent offenders that these parole board reviews. what differences and changes have you seen since thejohn

worboys case? i think that what has been said in the interview with the chair of the parole board is very true. but i think that when she talks about a loss of confidence in the parole board, i'm not clear if she is referring to a loss of confidence from the wider public or a loss of confidence from the other people who are stakeholders, like prisoners, lawyers, people in prisons making reports, probation officers. i think the loss of confidence comes on both sides. there has been a massive reluctance on the part of members of the parole board to progress cases. thereafter adjournments happening all the time. because they are afraid they will be criticised? they now feel they have to look into areas that perhaps before they felt that they were —— that were outside of their remit. but wouldn't the public want that, mark, don't you think?” but wouldn't the public want that, mark, don't you think? i think that, as marie says, victims have been poorly served by the justice system

and that is across the system. it is vital that victims, certainly at the sentencing stage, that their concerns are fully taken into account in a sentence that is passed. for indeterminate sentences, so prisoners the people the parole board primarily deal with, that is reflected in the length of tariff which those prisoners are given, thatis which those prisoners are given, that is the punishment part of the sentence. once that part of the sentence. once that part of the sentence is served, it then. the pa role sentence is served, it then. the parole board to determine release. —— falls to the parole board. that testis —— falls to the parole board. that test is based purely on risk and it is imported the parole board hearing is imported the parole board hearing is not a retrial of the offence, it is not a retrial of the offence, it is purely an application and a risk test. no doubt the parole board could be better at making sure that victims are fully informed of the process but the parole board also relies on the other parts of the system to do theirjob effectively. it is also the responsibility of the

prison and probation service to ensure that victims are informed of the process. it is a complex system and it all needs to work together to ensure that victims are fully informed, that they have a role to play in the hearing and four incidents, victims can have a role in saying what might be in the licence conditions, which are attached to people when they are released. you talked a little bit about the delays, simon, that have come about since thejohn worboys case but varies greater transparency now, danny shaw was telling us that summaries are being sent to victims' families so they can understand the decision that has been made. families so they can understand the decision that has been madem families so they can understand the decision that has been made. it is helpful to stand back and look at what transparency means in the pa role what transparency means in the parole process, ithink. the reason why victims have been excluded from an understanding is because the decision was taken to keep parole proceedings private and because they originate from a process where prisoners did not really have rights within that system. what has happened over the years is that the

courts have intervened in these proceedings to make them more procedurally fair for prisoners. but in doing so, they have not extended that to make it an open system for everyone involved. one thing that many people working in parole have been asking for and campaigning for, for many years, is for the parole board to become a proper court, not just some kind of said part of the home office and the ministry of justice but a court in its own right “ some justice but a court in its own right —— some sort of said part. it will have the power to control proceedings, to be heard in public which has not previously been available. we saw earlier this year, the oj simpson parole proceedings which were televised, and everyone knew what was going on. one of the reasons victims feel excluded is that the secrecy that surrounds the pa role that the secrecy that surrounds the parole system was originally designed to keep prisoners quite but it means everyone else does not know what is happening either. marie, would you welcome that? well, i do think, we should have, it should be open to the public. that is what we

say, justice has to be seen to be done. ifeel say, justice has to be seen to be done. i feel that say, justice has to be seen to be done. ifeel that in say, justice has to be seen to be done. i feel that in cases, say, justice has to be seen to be done. ifeel that in cases, and i talk about where it is a murderer, and as regards helen's law, i want killers who hide their victim ‘s body to do their sentence and do not reveal where the remains can be recovered for the family, that they should remain in prison until they speak with the department and say what they did. they should not be released. it should be nobody, no parole. —— no body, no parole. i don't mind if my daughter's kelly gets released, as long as he tells me where her body can be recovered from. —— my daughter's killer gets released. i want her out of his clutches. let me put some points which have coming to us just now on the text and e—mail, david says, "no

murderer should even be considered for release on parole until they have disclosed the location of any body, no ifs or buts", exactly what you said, marie. barney says, "who appoints people to the parole board and what qualifications are required". and vincent says any violent crime should not have any pa role violent crime should not have any parole attached. do you think, simon, it is fair, the point that marie and david make, that it is about deals, it is about helping families and if somebody like a murderer is going to say, "this is where the body is buried and i'm showing remorse", that is reasonable and if not, no parole. one of the reasons why people need to be better educated and why an open system would help if that some things about pa role would help if that some things about parole are counterintuitive. what the parole system is for is to decide whether somebody is at risk of committing further cereus offences. for example, on the question of remorse, there has been of psychological studies that say

showing remorse is not necessarily linked to risk and there can be powerful reasons why people won't show remorse that can actually inhibit them from offending them in the future, the shame of what they've done. should be parole board be deciding just about risk or do you think lamarck, that actually, it should also be about considering victims' families concerned and if they don't know where a body is regular is not showing remorse, they shouldn't be released? if factors are relevant to risk, yes, they should be considered. simon is right that there is debate and indeed evidence which shows that remorse does not necessarily play stra ig htforwa rdly does not necessarily play straightforwardly into an assessment of risk. it is the parole board's duty to decide upon release based solely on the test of risk. i think it is important that it maintains that role. as i said, it is that the sentencing stage —— at the

sentencing stage —— at the sentencing stage —— at the sentencing stage where the impact of the crime on the victim is rightly taken into the crime on the victim is rightly ta ken into account. the crime on the victim is rightly taken into account. so it needs to be earlier than at the parole board stage? marie, iwant be earlier than at the parole board stage? marie, i want to leave you with the last word. could you just give us an insight into what it is like as a mother who lost her daughter, who was murdered 30 years ago, to go into one of these parole board hearings? what is it like for you? it is horrific, it really is. but i am determined to do it. entering the prison, being searched, being taken along, when they are in open conditions or grade c prisons, we have prisoners walking around us. we don't know what they are there for. like i is up and down and it is very unnerving. —— they are eyeing us very unnerving. —— they are eyeing us up and down. i think the parole board don't listen to what we are saying in our statements. i have

things in my statement which are saying that this man would be a danger if he was released without showing remorse. and that is why remorse is some important. they have to say what they did, they have to own up to it, because they are not safe to be released back into the public until they accept their guilt and take the punishment for that. marie, thank you so much for speaking to us today. and to simon and mark for coming in. we were talking a few moments ago to a barrister, the only afghan female barrister, the only afghan female barrister practising in the uk, who was telling us she has been taken off several cases because clients say it is down to her race, they wa nt say it is down to her race, they want a white man to represent them in court. jane says, "having watched your programme, it seems to me that clients are not against the solicitor or the barrister but it is the belief thatjudges are biased or racist. if the client believes the

judge is more likely to believe the white male than the black woman, it isa white male than the black woman, it is a reflection on the judge". this one on twitter says, "yes, it is about race and gender in the legal system. i have a friend from ghana, a practising barrister and her best friend who is also a barrister is english and white and they would agree". this one says," kudos to the afg ha n agree". this one says," kudos to the afghan barrister for speaking out. things need to change and quickly". interested to get your thoughts if you are in the legal profession. is this a problem, something you recognise? get in touch on social media. still to come: we'll talk about a new equal pay advice service aimed at women on low incomes who believe they are experiencing pay discrimination and do not have access to legal advice. and "we're not in step". reports this morning that strictly star dannyjothules' dance partner amy fled training in tears after a massive row. we'll talk about tensions in creative partnerships

with a former latin and ballroom british champion. a unique new clinic is helping women who've had heart attacks to have babies. it's the first in the world to treat women who have a what's called a spontaneous coronary artetry dissection, which essentially leads to severe heart attack. it mainly effects young, otherwise healthy women, and until now the advice has been that survivors shouldn't risk a pregnancy as it could kill them. but this hospital is now offering them hope, as our reporterjames melley has been finding out. they said to me, "you must never consider having children, because it's something that we don't think your heart could cope with. it's going become like a grieving process, because i can see that this is hard news for you to swallow". there is resistance notjust

in the uk, there's resistance from other groups transatla ntically and across the world. can you remember what happened on the day you had your heart attack? woke up at about eight o'clock in the morning, and ifelt very, very, very poorly. i put my hand to my head and i was drenched in sweat. it was like someone had got hold of myjaw. no chest pain, but someone had got me like that and i knew straight away that it was a heart attack, without a shadow of a doubt. i was definitely very poorly. i felt like i was dying. there was no doubt in my mind whatsoever. despite being a healthy thirtysomething, hayley had a heart attack in 2009. i can remember saying to them, "am i dying?, because i was aware that nothing was working. isaid, "am i dying?" and theyjust kept saying,

"we're trying everything we can, but nothing's working". i was aware that my husband was on the way, mum and dad, and i was trying to be brave for them. so if i was going to die, i wanted them to know that i was ok. so i was laughing and joking to make them think i was ok when really, i was really frightened. but if i was going to go, i want them to know that i was still laughing when i went. she didn't know it at the time, but hayley had suffered a spontaneous coronary artery dissection, or scad. it's a rare condition, but is the leading cause of heart attacks in young women. part of a blood vessel wall supplying the heart tears, reducing the amount of blood getting to the heart and stopping it from working. the exact cause isn't known, but many cases seem to be

connected to pregnancy, although that wasn't the case for hayley. hayley recovered from her heart attack, but was told that her life plans would have to change. when i saw the doctor, he said, "we don't know why this has happened, we don't know what this is, this is an out of the blue heart attack. we suggest you take things very easy and never have children. your heart would not sustain the ability for you to have children. it's risky for you to have children". determined not to be defined by the condition, hayley got fit and has run several marathons. but she has never come to terms with not being able to have children. it was another thing that was stolen from me. i almost don't allow myself to think about it, because it could take you down a dark path of sadness. so i don't allow myself to dwell on it, but there was sadness and i felt less of a person, less of a woman, more of a failure, more... faulty, like i was a faulty person.

i'm not whole. just sad, really. hayley‘s experience is not unusual. many women that have had scad are told not to risk getting pregnant. like hayley, many are put off having children. victoria had her heart attack a few weeks after having her second baby. she'd felt ill, and was told she needed surgery. that night was awful. it was absolutely awful. and yeah, you almostjust feel like, "i'm so fragile. could ijust drop dead? what if i die before they get me into surgery?" i would have that nightmare over and over again when i was in the garden with the children and i was literally lying there and my daughter was screaming in the garden. it was absolutely terrible. that took quite a long time to go, that nightmare.

it really was horrible. after successful surgery and time recovering, victoria is keen to try for another baby, but she says her original doctors have warned her not to. i spoke about it at length with my cardiologist, and hejust said, "i think it's best that you put that out of your mind. and then i met dr abi, and obviously heard about her wonderful pioneering clinic at chelsea and westminster and the work that she's done with scad survivors and pregnancies. and that gave me hope to think that actually, it might not be completely out of the question. dr abi al—hussaini, or dr abi, as she's known to her patients, set up a clinic at the chelsea and westminster hospital in 2017 after being approached by women like victoria who've had a heart attack and who were desperate to have a baby. i do see a lot of patients who have come to me upset or not happy that they've

been told they cannot go on and have a child ever again. and that's been one of the reasons why i went in to establish a scad pregnancy clinic, to give these patients the correct advice to allow them to make an informed decision for themselves of whether they should consider a future pregnancy or not. dr abi assesses her patients to let them know the risks associated with a pregnancy, and if they choose to go through with having a child, has a team of specialists to support the women through to birth. bella was one of the first babies born at dr abi's clinic. she is mum julie murphy's second baby, after she had her heart attack after coming back from her honeymoon. i couldn't even walk up the stairs when i came home from hospital. that was really difficult to get my head around.

i wasn't allowed to open a window, or even lift up the kettle. it was really difficult in the early days, and i did have some counselling. julie had originally been told she shouldn't try for a baby before she was referred to dr abi. she was anxious about what she might be told. i was worried that they would say there's no possibility, or it would be too dangerous for us to try to have a baby, that it might mean i'm putting my life at risk. was it scary for you? yeah. it's the unknown. there's always that risk that the scad may reoccur. i'm very aware that there are ladies that have had a scad during pregnancy or following pregnancy. so even though that wasn't the case for us, we didn't know whether it may or may not happen. dr abi's clinic is the only one of its kind in the world,

so women that have suffered scad elsewhere often get in touch. but she has come across some opposition to her work from other doctors. in america, they are very much anti becoming pregnant any time after a heart attack, or having had a spontaneous coronary artery dissection. but again, i think that's because there hasn't been a huge amount of research. there is a good amount of research at the moment that's being developed. for women that have survived scad, there will always be a risk of a further one. but dr al—hussaini and her team offer hope for women who want to start a family after a heart attack. but for victoria's husband richard, the risk could still be too great. it's the unknown risk of, will it happen again? so you've got to live with that while going through a difficult time anyway. it's a lot to ask. i feel like it's out of my control and i'm being told

what i can and can't do. it's nice to quantify that and for someone as an expert, dr abi, to say, "listen, these are the facts. this is the risk that you've got to take into consideration", and then to make an informed decision from there. coming up... ‘we're not in step' — reports this morning that strictly star dannyjothules' dance partner amy fled training in tears after a massive row — we'll talk about tensions in creative partnerships with a former latin and ballroom british champion. do get in touch with us throughout the morning, earlier we were asking for comments on manny is not using social media because they were not commentating —— concentrating on theirjob. we'll ask you people should use social

media at work. people say it should be banned because people don't get paid to go on facebook. they get paid to go on facebook. they get paid to go on facebook. they get paid to theirjob. an anonymous text says my mother—in—law is disabled and has home care each morning to help us start the day. regular qera spends more time on her phone than helping my mother—in—law get out of bed and get relief on the day. it's often left to my father—in—law who is 80 to do most things as the carer to make breakfast or take a bath. the company refuses to listen to the concerns my husband raised as we don't live in the house though we do often visit. vincent got in touch. i see people, sorry, almost always winning, walking with children into with their nose buried in a phone. it is dangerous for the child and for me, as i am a van driver, as i am looking out of the kid and it

makes me really mad. do get in touch with us throughout the morning, use the hashtag victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. nearly 50 years since the equal pay act, which makes it illegal to pay women less than men for the same work, many women in the uk still earn less than their male counterparts. now a new service is being launched to help women in low paid jobs access the help they need to fight pay discrimination.? money to set up that fund came from the back pay paid to carrie gracie, who of course resigned as bbc china editor in january in a dispute over equal pay. injune, the bbc apologised for underpaying her. well, carrie gracie is here. and also with me is kay collins, who was working as a chef when she found out her male counterpart was earning £6,000 more than her,

while doing the same job, and spent three years in and out of court before winning her case. thank you forjoining us today. carrie, starting with you and i know you don't want to go into the huge detail, but people will want to know, do you think the bbc has changed and is looking at the issue? i think like all employers it's a moment for the bbc. we have got #metoo and the gender pay gap and the equal pay fight at the bbc which involved a lot of shouting, including me and it's a moment where we have to look at what is going on and what we see is pay discrimination which is embedded in many workplaces across the country. that is my experience because when i went public hundreds of women wrote to me to talk about the pay problems

they had people would come up to be on the street or on buses, railway platforms to talk about their problems and i now feel it is out there and a lot of us don't see it because it's so deeply embedded, historically, culturally, socially, economically and we don't talk about it. pay is such a taboo and today the biggest lesson for me is that everybody should be talking about their pay. it is a tricky one. were you able to talk about pay? is that how you found out you were being paid £6,000 less than a man?” how you found out you were being paid £6,000 less than a man? i was working with my mail counterpart and he was discussing a prospectus and a couege he was discussing a prospectus and a college magazine which stated a motor mechanic earned £25,000 a year and he said that £4000 a year more thanl and he said that £4000 a year more than i earn and i didn't think i heard him right, and i said, you earn £21,000 per year? heard him right, and i said, you earn £21,000 peryear? i heard him right, and i said, you earn £21,000 per year? i only earn 16. and he said, you've been here a

lot longer. he had been there one year and lot longer. he had been there one yearandl lot longer. he had been there one yearand i was 15 lot longer. he had been there one year and i was 15 years older and with more experience, so i went to see my line manager in her office and asked if it was the case that the chap was being paid more than me and she said yes. and i said, why is he paid more than me? she shrugged her shoulders and said, i don't know. carry on. i'm interested to know. carry on. i'm interested to know how management responded when you said you had to pay me the same. not very well. i had to write a letter to my manager in the first instance and then i had to be interviewed by two other area managers over the space of six months and i had my appeal turned down and i reay peeled and that was turned down on the basis that my male counterpart did different work to me, which was put into a letter by my then line manager, who was a

woman andl by my then line manager, who was a woman and i expected a lot more support and i got from her and that is howl support and i got from her and that is how i ended up having to go to court because they would not resolve it and they did not even interview my male counterpart to find out if he did these extra jobs. i know he did not do them and he wrote it in a letter that he did not do them. and he consequently was more or less forced out of hisjob because he supported me with this letter. and it took you more than three years in and out of court before winning your case but you did win your case and thatis case but you did win your case and that is the important thing, but it took a huge toll on your family live, didn't it? definitely it did. i lost a lot of weight and i was quite depressed fro while because i just thought it was going to be resolved after working but this group is such a long time and i expected them to think, we are sorry, this should not have happened

and here is the money we owe you and i could have kept myjob because i was dismissed during the process.” think that is the point because people might sit and look at you and say you earn a huge amount of money at the bbc, even before the backpay was given and there is probably not that risk for you because you can afford it. the fact you are giving £361,000 to afford it. the fact you are giving £361 , 000 to establish afford it. the fact you are giving £361,000 to establish this new service to help people people will say, there is no risk for you. if you lost yourjob in the process you can take the hit, but of other people watching this, it's terrifying. i agree. there was some risk for me but it's not about me. everything that kay has said is so familiar to me. i everything that kay has said is so familiarto me. i pay everything that kay has said is so familiar to me. i pay tribute to her for her courage in going through all of that because i went through a year of of that because i went through a yearofan of that because i went through a year of an internal battle, and like you say, i was a high—profile figure andi you say, i was a high—profile figure and i was not sacked. and i had the

sport bbc winning, amazing women, articulate, curious, dedicated, persevering journalists, many of them and i had a union behind me, them and i had a union behind me, the nuj, and i had a great lawyer working for me. parliament were asking questions on the bbc and the regulator were asking questions and ke, and many women who go through this, they don't have that support and that is why we need to launch the equal pay advice service because we wa nt the equal pay advice service because we want women not to be so lonely and confused. it's very difficult and confused. it's very difficult and employers are likely to say that, they will say there is a difference between the job that, they will say there is a difference between thejob he is doing and you are doing and the thing is some of those points might be legitimate and reasonable and some of them will be pretexts to explain and cover up the fact they have been underpaying women for that long and you need help as a woman to

navigate all of that so the service is intended to provide expert employment lawyers to give women free assistance and are not unionised so they don't have the help of a union and they need help, both to discuss it and understand what the legal rights are a situation and to coach them on how to navigate this so they don't have to navigate this so they don't have to lose theirjob and to limit —— liaise with the employer, so the charity who are doing the service, they can go in and negotiate with an employer. so hopefully women who ta ke employer. so hopefully women who take up this in future will have a more conciliatory, positive solutions focused conversation with their employer and i think employers are more aware of it now after meeting the gender pay gap. they are hopefully wanting to sort it out. and more aware after what you did. do you ever look back and feel sad

that so much of it was around you and that you have a high salary and in some ways the headlines focused ona in some ways the headlines focused on a high—profile talent rather than women like k or other women watching the programme. it's great that you have got k to talk about it because this is what it is about because it is ok and people who were funding the service, it is life changing money they are talking about. my salary was paid for by the public at the bbc, high salary and i didn't need the money and i wanted to do it asa need the money and i wanted to do it as a point of principle to do the fight for equality and to give the money away and it's something we need to be aware of, to talk about pay so we can deal with it and deal with it constructively and hopefully employers will step up and have a conversation in the future in a more constructive way. the bbc has received 1407 the

queries sincejuly the bbc has received 1407 the queries since july 2017 the bbc has received 1407 the queries sincejuly 2017 and of these, 316, including men have been awarded increases while 144 these, 316, including men have been awarded increases while144 queries remain unresolved. in response to the payment dispute with carry the bbc said it acknowledge that carrie was told she would be paid in line with the north america editor when she took the role of china editor and she accepted the role on that understanding. i added that the bbc is committed to the principle of equal pay and acts in accordance with the values. you may have seen this morning reports that strictly star dannyjothules has fallen out with his dance partner amy dowden. tensions are obviously running high going into week 8. last weekend, the couple finished bottom of the leaderboard but made it through the dance—off. so what pressures are there on couples who spend so much

time together training? we thought we'd ask someone in the know. anthony rutherford is a former latin and ballroom champion, who has taken part in a number of group dances on strictly and is also friends with most of the professional dancers. high, anthony. how are you doing? it's very difficult for us to understand when we tune in on saturday in see a two—minute bt of them training and having some sweat and tears and then the polished performance. the giver is a sense of the intensity in that training room —— so give us. the intensity in that training room -- so give us. what happens a lot of time is the couples come into the competition that they see the sequences and the shiny glitterball and everything looks glamorous and i don't think the celebrities realise how much work they need to put in to become a really good dancer on the saturday night show. so we start off on monday morning and the couple

start rehearsing and sometimes there is commitment that goes on about thursday and then they will set out everything out in the studio and thenit everything out in the studio and then it is time for the show and the professional get their routines ready and it is a full week for the professionals and the celebrities end up matching them for the work ethic. and for the professionals they are used the abuse on the body, for want of a better word, but the celebrities will come in having aches and and blisters, and that presumably will cause arguments, tension, they are tired. it goes to ways. everybody‘s personalities different but you get one person who

will really buy into the whole ethic where you get up, dance, sleep, dance, and you get the other ones who really did not realise that they we re who really did not realise that they were buying into this lifestyle to the next 12 weeks. something like the next 12 weeks. something like thejungle the next 12 weeks. something like the jungle where they can leave it at any the jungle where they can leave it atany time the jungle where they can leave it at any time because they are eating horrible stuff, that is fine. whereas with strictly you have 13 million people who would give anything to get on that show so that in terms of social media, they cannot complain too much, people will not buy it because they don't see what they do through the week that the tension starts to build around this time because it's halfway through and it starts getting really serious and people are looking and getting pushed to be told to get into the final and the people who mess up go out early because it's inevitable that they are not good enough and then it gets to this point where the professionals don't want to let the

celebrities down and vice versa. this is when the tension starts happening. there are reports in the papers, and we don't know whether it's true, that the producers got involved and tried to smooth it out between amy and danny. do the producers sometimes have to get involved when their fallout?” producers sometimes have to get involved when their fallout? i have to be honest, i've never seen it first hand. i know that over the time i've known everybody on strictly and been involved in different bits and bobs there has been couples that did not get on. it doesn't go into the show and you would never know but it's like any work, you can have a boss screaming at you for 12 hours a day but you can leave the job but with strictly it is different because you are under scrutiny for the whole 12 weeks and i can think of a couple that went that way and the couples that went that way and the couples that ended up going out early so it wasn't too bad. i want to know who.

i couldn't possibly say. everybody makes out as though they are friends and 99% of the time they are and the couples work well together. for example, faye and giovanni, she is used to working and dancing and touring and her work ethic is really good and giovanni is pushing her so much. it's what you are used to i suppose. anthony, thank you ever so much. anthony rutherford blair, speaking to us about strictly. finally this morning, commemorations are taking place this weekend to mark the centenary of the armistice that ended the first world war. guns stopped firing along the western front 100 years ago this sunday. theresa may is in belgium, and in the past hour, alongside the belgian prime minister, she's laid wreaths at the graves of the first uk soldier to be killed in the war, john parr, and the last uk soldier to be killed on the western front, george ellison. mrs may has said, "we remember the heroes who lost their lives

in the horror of the trenches. as the sun sets on 100 years of remembrance, we will never forget their sacrifice." there will be full coverage of the commemorations today, and across the weekend, here on the bbc, as the nation remembers. from us all, goodbye. we have a mostly dry day during the daylight hours across england and wales but things will go downhill as we go into the later stages of the day and into the evening. a few showers across eastern parts but sunny spells here and the wind is increasing all the while and it is towards the west we have heavy rain moving into northern ireland, pushing into the far west and south

west england. and more so towards south wales and there is an amber warning in south—west wales. further heavy rain expected through the rest of the day and more flooding is likely. the rain will move east overnight eventually pushing into the north sea and clear skies overnight with temperatures down to seven or 11 degrees and then throughout the weekend it stays fairly unsettled and there will be a mixture of sunny spells and some showers. goodbye. you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's11am and these are the main

stories this morning. police in melbourne are treating a knife attack in the city centre as a terrorist incident after one person was killed and two injured. the attacker was shot at the scene and later died in hospital. a short time, probably about half—an—hour after the alleged offender arrived at the hospital, he succumbed to his injuries and died at hospital from that gunshot wound. the dup accuse the prime minister of breaking her promise over plans to avoid a hard irish border, after brexit. the prime minister has laid wreaths at the graves of the first and last british soldiers killed in the first world war, to mark the armistice centenary.