hello. good morning. it's monday. it's ten o'clock. i'm victoria derbyshire. jailed after hitting her husband with a hammer almost 20 times. now sally challen is preparing to argue she killed her husabnd of three decades because of years of psychological abuse. we'll talk to one of the couple's sons, who's supporting his mum's bid to be released from prison. the united nations has been to essex to investigate the impact of poverty and austerity and we went with them. this is one resident's story: i don't understand how i can be left living in a shed for 15 months. they couldn't care less. the un's investigator on poverty told us he's seen no evidence from the government of new policies which will help end austerity. "brexit can be stopped", labour's brexit spokesman tells this programme, despite his boss jeremy corbyn saying at the weekend it couldn't be. yes, technically it can be stopped.

the question is what are the decisions that are going to arise and what is the vote going to be? doing the best with what we can over next few weeks and months i think the first decision will be whether parliament supports any deal the prime minister manages bring back. and this dutch man is 69, but says he feels so much younger, and wants his birth certificate changed legally to make him 49. we'll ask emile ratelband why and if he's serious. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. we are each weekday morning. really busy today so do get in touch with us busy today so do get in touch with us that you always do. use the hashtag victoria live or email us. i

wa nt to hashtag victoria live or email us. i want to ask you if you have experienced coercive control in a relationship. as i said at the beginning of the programme, we will beginning of the programme, we will be talking to the son of sally challen, in prison for the murder of her husband. both her sons believe her husband. both her sons believe he was a controlling man and they are supporting her appeal against murder. do let us know your own experiences. you can also text as well and send us a whatsapp message. now here is a summary of the day's news with carole. labour's shadow brexit secretary sir keir starmer has said britain's withdrawalfrom the european union can still be halted. his comments appeared to be at odds with party leaderjeremy corbyn, who said last week "we can't stop brexit". sir keir starmer says they are not at odds with each other and that if the deal is voted down the labour party will push for a general election and then possibly another referendum.

yes, technically it can be stopped. the question is what other decisions that are going to arise and what will the vote be? doing the best that we can with what is coming in the weeks and months, i think the first decision will be will the parliaments aboard any deal that the prime minister brings back. on that deal, the labour party has said we have got conditions. we are not going to bring back a bad deal and we will vote it down. the next question is should there be a general election? of course we say yes because negotiations will have failed. if that doesn't happen, all options need to remain on the table. one option is a public vote. we had a long discussion at a party conference on this and that is the position that we all agreed. staying with brexit, and it's emerged that multiple members of the cabinet expressed significant doubts about theresa may's plan for leaving the eu at the meeting four months ago where they agreed to support it. the bbc has been told that ministers described the proposal,

which would involve maintaining close ties with the european union, as worrying, disappointing and concerning. mrs may is trying to convince them to back herfinal position in time for a possible eu summit later this month. more than 220 people remain unaccounted for as wildfires continue to burn in california. the number of people known to have died has risen to 31 following the discovery of six more bodies. it means the wildfires have killed as many people as the state's previous most deadly blaze. the foreign secretary, jeremy hunt, will press the saudi authorities about the murder ofjamal khashoggi during a visit to the country today. he'll urge them to cooperate fully with the turkish investigation and warn that it is unacceptable that the circumstances surrounding mr khashoggi's murder in istanbul six weeks ago still remain unclear. an investigation by the bbc‘s panorama programme has found the average rent arrears for council tenants on universal credit are two—and—a—half times higher

than for tenants who still receive the old housing benefit. the chancellor announced extra money for universal credit in his budget last month to counter warnings that moving onto the all—in—one benefit system could push people into destitution. israeli troops have clashed with hamas militants during a raid inside the gaza strip. palestinian officials say six people including a senior hamas commander were killed in an israeli special forces operation, and in fighting afterwards involving tank fire and air strikes. israel said one of its army officers died. a new inquest will begin today into the deaths of ten civilians who were killed during an army operation in ballymurphy in west belfast in 1971. the army said those shot were either ira members or people caught in the crossfire between soldiers and republicans. earlier this year, a loyalist paramilitary group claimed

some of the killings. the victims‘ families say they hope to obtain some form of truth. a group of vets has accused the department for environment, food and rural affairs of telling bare faced lies about the effectiveness of one of its badger culls in england. dr iain mcgill, the director of prion interest group, has written to the chief vet, asking her to ensure that defra retracts what he calls insupportable claims that its badger cull policy is working. that is it for now. back to victoria. thank you. at 10:30am we will talk to the dutch pensioner who wa nts to will talk to the dutch pensioner who wants to legally changed his new —— age. he is 69 and he wants to be 20 yea rs age. he is 69 and he wants to be 20 years younger. on twitter: this is ridiculous. tackle the prejudice about age because that is real and young. but age is real. my

80—year—old mother with dementia thinks she is at school and not in a ca re thinks she is at school and not in a care home. can we change her age to 11? thank you very much. do get in touch. contact us on twitter or by email. do include your phone number in your message if you would like to ta ke in your message if you would like to take part in the programme. if you are texting you will be charged your standard message rate. sally challen was jailed for a minimum of 22 years for killing her husband of 30 years, richard, with a hammer. she hit him with it almost 20 times. now she's preparing to challenge her conviction at the court of appeal. her lawyers will argue she killed her controlling husband only after enduring decades of psychological abuse. sally challen‘s case is being supported by her sons and one of them, david, is here now. thank you for coming on the programme. in what way did your

father coercively control your mother? my father met my mother when he was 22 and she was 15 and he cheated on her early and she confronted him early and he said don't make me choose between you and her because i will choose her and that was the start of the controlling relationship when she accepted it. he said what she could and couldn't say, what she could eat, where she could go. he verbally fat shamed her in front of us, he cheated her relentlessly, and he made her question her own sanity. he really contorted her mind over a0 yea rs really contorted her mind over a0 years from the age of 15 to the age of 56. as you and your brother were growing up, where you really aware of your father's continual humiliation of your mother? we were aware. we saw it. from a young age, it wasn't so present and we couldn't see it. it is very under the radar in terms of what you can and cannot see. we didn't have a term for abuse. that wasn't a law, coercive

control, until 2015, so it was too ha rd to control, until 2015, so it was too hard to reported until the moment that we had phone records, and you said you know what i really question it, i thought i was going mad. this is going to the court of appeal later on this month on behalf of your mother. why was it not presented at her original trial in 2010? psychological abuse wasn't a legislation at that time and only the last ten years of her life were looked at. the psychological reports we re looked at. the psychological reports were only looking at depression at the time. if there is no legislation for psychological abuse, what can you do? but also at the same time, the evidence wasn't there. the evidence didn't present itself and reports gathered only in the last ten yea rs reports gathered only in the last ten years did not take into account the last a0 years, which you have got to take into account in a case like my mother's. what are you trying to change at this appeal? we

are not only trying to recognise our mother's right to be recognised as a victim of domestic violence, we are looking at developing the idea of coercive control. as a law in 2015, it is there but it is greatly an misunderstood by the cps, prosecuting qcs, front line policing and the government because they don't give enough money to the victims of domestic violence and they don't do enough to stop it.|j use a mac professionals, police officers, prosecutors and lawyers, they don't understand what coercive control it? —— are you saying professionals ? control it? —— are you saying professionals? you can't hope to understand domestic violence without understanding coercive control because it is the heart and foundation of domestic violence. the first incident might be a slap in domestic violence but a lot of the time it is about control. ifjudges accept your argument, potentially your mother could be released. that is what you are hoping for? yes. of

course i want my mother to serve time for the crime that he has committed and we are notjustify what she has done. we want to acknowledge how this has happened so it never happens again and we can give a voice to later victims of domestic violence. thousands across the country. your mum had actually left your dad a year before the attack took place but then there was some kind of reconciliation, i understand, and that is when she took a hammer to your father. do you know what was going on that date which led to that? she started to speak to him again and my father got in there again and started to communicate with her. the idea of a post up to an agreement was put together by himself to sign away their rights to the home that they lived in. —— post nuptial agreement. what was suggested in that agreement? that she would sign away the house and she would stop smoking, giving full control over to

my father. he saw her as weak and living outside the relationship for the first time in 31 years of marriage, you could see this push and pull. the divorce lawyer said he never had a client that had gone back and forth over divorce proceedings as much as her. this really shows that contorted mind. she was gaslight it into questioning her sanity. after a0 years of psychological abuse, you have got to recognise it. it is her right to be recognised. but that particular day? that particular day? i had lived with her for the last year and in the last two weeks i could see that she was running away, her mind wasn't present and he wasn't there. as much as i would have loved to be there for her as a son, the abuse wasn't recognised, i had no time and i couldn't do anything about it. there was no help for her. this could all be avoided if psychological abuse is recognised at an earlier stage and this is why this is so important now. and you

are trying to change the murder conviction from murder to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility. what does your mother feel about what she did to your father? complete remorse of course. she tells me that of course she regrets it. i don't need to hear it. i know that. she still loves my father. that is bizarre to most people but that is the power of coercive control. she has not lived ina coercive control. she has not lived in a world where he is not around and he has made it that way. i love my father. i see my father in my face every day in the mirror but i need to recognise what he has done. and i do. and people need to recognise it, too, because there are so recognise it, too, because there are so many recognise it, too, because there are so many more recognise it, too, because there are so many more charismatic men and women out there as well, but domestic violence is gendered and thatis domestic violence is gendered and that is the only way we are going to

solve this, not just that is the only way we are going to solve this, notjust at that is the only way we are going to solve this, not just at the society injustice but as people. we need to pick out these instances to stop it happening because coercive control is very difficult to spot. does your mother recognise now that she was controlled in the way that you have described? yes. the first year on remand in prison, she went to a women's institute course and she learnt about power and control, and the mother i saw as a shepherd throughout my life came out and told mei throughout my life came out and told me i can't believe it. i looked at my brother and we both couldn't believe it. things that you would normally consider wrong in a relationship, she thought they were right. but they only have friends together, which my father created in her life. my brother has a girlfriend who offered her support and my father told him to leave her because she is going nowhere in life. he told my brother to play the field. he tried to isolate her. this was calculated throughout the entire

marriage. you are in your early 20s when your dad was killed by your mum. can you describe the media reporting at the time and what you thought of it? the media reporting is as it is today. it takes the side that my mother was vengeful and a jealous housewife and that is what you get with a lot of media reporting of domestic violence. if a woman steps out of line, they get a ha rd woman steps out of line, they get a hard slap down because they are stepping out of line. what is she stepping out of line. what is she stepping out of line. what is she stepping out of line for? you get a harsher sentence and harsher reporting and that is a fact. there has been a report collated on the media reporting of my mother's case since it was first reported and it has turned it on its head because people have recognised there is another side to the story and it is domestic violence. not that she is a calculated, cold—blooded murderer. domestic violence. not that she is a calculated, cold—blooded murdererlj have calculated, cold—blooded murderer.” have many messages coming in as you are talking, david. this email: i was ina are talking, david. this email: i was in a relationship with a narcissist the two years and he

gradually tried to cut me off from all my friends and family. he would try to tell me they didn't like me. he destroyed my phone which he knew contained many special photos. he chipped away very subtly and he was totally charming in public. the only way i got over it was having zero contact as he was very manipulative and he managed to talk me around, pretending he had had counselling and he had changed. it is a very difficult thing to recognise and breathe unless you have come across it. dave said: i have been in controlling relationship. i had to account for everything i had spent from my own account. he had online access to it. i had to provide receipts for everything, even cash withdrawals. i got out eventually but i can understand sally challen. this viewer said: i am going through a divorce and the judge dealing with our case has ruled that i was not in a coercive marriage even though the judge did not see my letters from itp confirming i was. i can relate

to this woman and listening to her son this morning. —— letters from my gp. and this: coercive control is not limited to adult to adult relationships. i lived with it from my teenage son for a number of years so my teenage son for a number of years so that my mental health failed. social services and mental health services did nothing. as you pointed out, coercive control has been against the law, has been defined in legislation in this country for three years, but you say it is still not taken seriously enough. what would lead to people taking it more seriously? young people think nonphysical violence in relationships is normal so we can assume that coercive control is not in the public arena and being looked at. what we can do is hope to recognised this appeal and recognise a victim of domestic violence and recognise that we don't properly understand it and there needs to be proper understanding of that proper guidelines for prosecuting qcs and proper help and support for police

to be trained up in it. but of course they need their help on the public to gather evidence. we need to obviously be aware of each other. we all have incidents where we can see control in each other‘s relationships but do we know how far that control goes in that situation? no. just ask and be patient. we have got to be there for each other. i know that sounds like baby proofing us asa know that sounds like baby proofing us as a society that somebody might be voiceless in a relationship and they might need that person and support. that is so important for the youth growing up today. my mother was 15 and she went through a coercive controlled relationship. that is happening again today, a0 yea rs that is happening again today, a0 years on. thank you for coming on the programme, david. the court of appeal hearing begins on the 28th and of course we will report back. if you have been affected by any of theissues if you have been affected by any of the issues we have been talking about, you can go to the bbc action line page on the website to access

support. this morning, ministers from 27 eu countries are meeting for an update on how brexit negotiations are going. there are reports that a deal is in sight, but is theresa may ready to sell any deal to her own party? let's speak to our political guru norman smith. where are we today? i hate to say it but we could be reaching a pivotal moment. i know i have but we could be reaching a pivotal moment. i knowl have said but we could be reaching a pivotal moment. i know i have said that numerous times but the next a8 hours look as though they could be critical in terms of whether we crashed out without a deal. why? because the thinking in government is that if they can't make decisive progress in the next a8 hours, there is no chance of an eu summit this month and if there is no summit this month, and ministers say they have really got to start throwing money at no deal and increasing the amount of effort they have put into preparing for no deal. that create a different dynamic, a different momentum where you start trundling

down the track towards no deal. added to which, the viewing government is they would really like to get the crucial vote in the comments done and dusted by christmas. if there is no summit this month, then that big commons vote probably disappears into the new year. i think the view of many in government is that it will be harder to win them because if you have the boat before christmas, there is a sort of end of term over with sentiment, which might help mrs may get the vote through. the next a8 hours could indeed be pivotal. this morning i have got to say that ministers were giving nothing away when they were pressed about what was going to happen in the next couple of days. listen to michael gove leaving home. could the uk be held against its will in brussels? the negotiating tea m will in brussels? the negotiating team are out there and i wish them all good luck in getting the right

deal. what about a referendum mechanism? i think it is important that we deliver on the referendum result which means delivering on the referendum result. there is a view that the idea of there being only a8 hours to go is being deliberately hyped up by downing street. look at the papers. we are all talking about a8 hours to sort brexit, to crank up the pressure on the eu to budge on this issue of the backstop to really put the squeeze on them in the hope that they will crack and lo and behold, mrs may will be able to present a deal to the cabinet either tomorrow or later in the week. thank you very much, norman. i've been speaking to the shadow brexit secretary, labour's sir keir starmer. yes or no, can brexit be stopped? yes. how? technically it can be stopped. the question is what are the decisions which will arise and what are the votes going to be? doing the best with what we can

with what is likely to happen over the next weeks or months, i think the first decision will be whether parliament supports any deal the pm manages to bring back. on that question, the labour party has said we've got conditions, we are not going to back a bad deal, and if it isn't a good deal we will vote it down. the next decision, should there be another general election? we say yes, of course we say yes because the negotiations will have failed. if that doesn't happen then all options need to remain on the table. why... one option is a public vote. we had a long discussion at our party conference on this and that's the position we all agreed. even jeremy corbyn? yes, jeremy, the whole of the shadow cabinet, the whole of the party, coalesced around that decision which is the labour party decision. that's the official position? why isjeremy corbyn telling a german newspaper that brexit cannot be stopped? i think he was answering a question about the last referendum and whether we respected it etc, which of course we do. actually, if you look at the structured approach,

what is going to happen... he was really explicit. brexit can't be stopped. jeremy, myself, the whole labour party discussed this at conference and came up with a strong position which says all options must remain on the table. should your supporters trust labour's official position, which you havejust laid out, or the leader's actual position, which people actually think he wants the uk to leave the eu? jeremy and i and the shadow cabinet discuss this regularly. we were all together going into our party conference. there were different views about what position we should take. but we all came together around that decision. jeremy agrees with it. i agree with it. i accept that in our party there are different views, different strengths of views, practically every member has a view on brexit, not many have the same view. but in the end the question is what is the party's position? you say the official position is what people should trust,

not what they might think jeremy corbyn secretly thinks? yes, we had a big motion at conference. at our conference the delegates get to vote on those motions. we voted unanimously to support that motion. that means unanimously everybody voted for it. that is our position. the official position is brexit can be stopped, potentially via a second referendum and remain will be on that ballot? well, the motion didn't proceed in those terms. it looked at the decisions we've got to make. first decision, is there a deal which can be supported or not? we do need a deal. this prime minister looks like she is increasingly incapable of delivering the right deal. we are focused on that first question. obviously, if she fails in that, there really ought to be a general election, but we have a fixed term parliament act, as you know now, which says that you only have elections every five years. before that act it would have been unthinkable for a prime minister to simply continue if she lost a vote like this. there actually should be a general election. if that isn't the case,

there are more options on the table, including a public vote. how are you... no deal, most people agree, isn't in the national interest. no. and that is labour's position. how are you going to prevent the country leaving the eu with no deal if parliament rejects mrs may's deal? first thing is, no deal would be very bad for the country. i really don'tjust mean trade. before i was an mp i was director of public prosecutions. i was working with eurojust, one of the european agencies that shares information about terrorism, intercepts terrorist cells etc. we can't put ourselves in a position where we can't be part of all that. i don't think anybody, whichever way they voted, would want that. how would you prevent the country leaving the eu with no deal? i think the majority in parliament would not countenance no deal. that majority will therefore speak. what do you mean? what does that mean in practical terms? more mps in parliament will not accept no deal. what will we do about it? first there is bound to be a motion

which would be backed very heavily, saying there is no mandate to leave without a deal. would that be binding? it may or may not be, there will be an argument about that with different views, but even if it isn't there is legislation going through which could be amended. dominic raab, the brexit secretary, issued 106 technical notices. in that it says there's got to be 51 changes to legislation by next march for no deal. we are not going to have a lack of opportunity to vote on no deal. i don't think, in my heart of hearts, that this prime minister would attempt to take us out without a deal. she's done a lot of work on things like counterterrorism, and the security of the nation, i don't think she would put that in jeopardy. if she saw that 80, 90% of mps simply wouldn't back her on that... she knows that now, doesn't she? i think this talk of we will leave in march without a deal, i think it is a bluff. it is designed to say vote for my deal or you'll get something worse. thank you very much. thank you. sir keir starmer, labour's brexit spokesman. now we can talk to

justine greening. she with education secretary in theresa may's comes into early earlier this year and she is in our westminster studio. she's called for a referendum to be held on whatever deal the pm comes back from brussels with. how many ministers do you think are on the brink of resigning likejo johnson last week? i don't know the number but i know there will be mps considering resigning given what is the right thing to do personally. the misgivings like mrs may's deal, the worst of all worlds, having less say over the way that we govern our lives, i know that weighs very heavily on the minds of many mps. including ministers. you say you don't know the number but you do know for sure that some remain leaning ministers are considering their positions? yes. give us a vague idea of how many you think.

you have obviously spoken to them.” think at the end of the day it is impossible to put the number on it. i literally can't have a gazillion conversations with every single minister in parliament. i think all iam minister in parliament. i think all i am saying is that we know that many mps across the house have deep misgivings about what the government strategy is. i certainly can't support an outcome on brexit which leaves us with less say over our lives, which put at risk the good friday agreement. my view is that parliament needs to recognise that it is gridlock. mps have different views on this but it is nevertheless gridlocked. we need to take responsibility for working out how we are going to navigate our country through this moment. i think the only way we can do that is to recognise it is going to be people who have that meaningful vote and it has got to be people that break the deadlock. the drip drip of resignations is apparently having zero effect on the prime minister

and her negotiations. of course she has got to get on and finish off thatjob. i think my point in all of this is that i have got my view about the deal and i don't think it isa about the deal and i don't think it is a good one and not in the interests of our country but i think eve ryo ne interests of our country but i think everyone should be allowed to have their say. if people in britain think it is a good deal, by all means they should be able to have it but i don't believe parliament will vote it through. so what is the point of her getting on with the job and finishing the job as you put it? i still think people should have the choice and the bottom line, victoria, is we have effectively three deals on the table for people to choose. one is the existing deal that we have already got with the rebate and all of that. the second is the deal the prime minister is finishing off, however that ends up. and then there is leaving on wto rules, and after that

you would need a free trade agreement. all of them have pros and cons but the only people who can really decide on what they think is the best one of those roots are the british people and we should have the confidence to trust them and give them that choice. if mrs may's deal is rejected by parliament, by you and your colleagues, she will have to stand down, when she, because she will have no authority? i don't think that is necessarily the case. come on! i think for the conservative party and for labour, and you have just seen sir keir starmer, the challenge brexit is it cuts across party political lines. in parliament we have been trying to process this decision by the british people in an institution which deals with party lines and it has simply been unable to do that which is why in the end i think you do need to give it back to people to have the final say. but that is also why it doesn't necessarily follow that if the prime minister has done their best to get a deal... we have got to respect her. she has had two years, since she trickled article 50, try

to get a deal, she put it before parliament and everyone said no way, how can she possibly carry on? if someone how can she possibly carry on? if someone else takes over, this could mean this country could leave the eu without a deal in march. i think parliament will vote against a notable departure. i think you will see parliament voted against these different routes forward. we need to go somewhere. we can't go nowhere as a country. the best way to block the deadlock is to give the final decision back to the british people. but i think it needs some honesty from politicians, as well, about not just the honesty from politicians, as well, about notjust the advantages but also the disadvantages of each of these routes. none of them will be easy for our country. all of them will have significant challenges. there needs to be honesty from westminster to the british public about the choices on the table. they should be allowed to make the choices for themselves. thank you for coming onto the programme.

justin green, former education secretary. —— justine greening. still to come. it's a rundown seaside village in essex — and it's also the most deprived part of england — and now united nations is in town to investigate poverty and deprivation injaywick sands. the united nations are coming here. let's talk to the dutch man?who's trying to legally change his?age from 69 to a9 with the aim of boosting his?online dating? prospects. emile ratelband, a motivational speaker? is attempting?to move his birthday from 11 march 19a9 to 11 march 1969. ?"you can change your name. you can change your gender. why not your age? nowhere are you so discriminated against as with your age," mr? ratelband?told a dutch newspaper.

he's here, as is writerjane fae, who doesn't agree that self—identifying your gender is the same as self—identifying your age, which is what emile is trying to do. good morning to both of you. is this simplya good morning to both of you. is this simply a publicity stunt, or are you serious? i'm really serious. i am the kind of guy who always goes to the kind of guy who always goes to the front. as an example, 35 years ago i went to a dentist to get my feelings out of my mouth, i had to speak to five dentists before someone speak to five dentists before someone would. emile ratelband, what's the problem for you with being 69? my my doctor says my biological age is a0, a2. he put it on paper. i want to be that age, a9, i said. a0, a2. he put it on paper. i want to be that age, 49, i said. what can you not do at 69 that you would be able to do at a9?

you not do at 69 that you would be able to do at 49? we have hired an appointment in holland. all of those people unemployed are above 55. when you are 55 you are not able to get a job. but you are not unemployed. of course not. so that isn't a reason. ifi course not. so that isn't a reason. if i want to buy a house i can't get a mortgage any more. do you have a mortgage? i do, but if i want a new houseit mortgage? i do, but if i want a new house it will be possible to get a mortgage because i'm too old. most people say, you're almost 70, do you really understand the problems nowadays because you are an old man? i say nowadays because you are an old man? isay i'm nowadays because you are an old man? i say i'm not old i am wise. i must a lwa ys i say i'm not old i am wise. i must always defend myself. sometimes i have to lie about my age. i don't wa nt have to lie about my age. i don't want that. why do you have to lie about your age? because if you go to some people they say, you look younger than you are, so you have the lie to them. i don't want to do

that. i want legalisation. the lie to them. i don't want to do that. iwant legalisation. it's my feeling. you won't get an extra 20 yea rs of life. feeling. you won't get an extra 20 years of life. that's not true. there was an examination in 2010 over here in england, they put old people in a new environment with younger people, and they saw that they became younger and healthier. you have seven children with twins on the way, you are surrounded by younger people. i know, and i want legalisation. i want you to respect my feeling. if you respect my feeling, i want to go to court, and i want to say i want legalisation. you have compared this with trans people who legally change their gender. exact. we have the free will. in the past we had to do what the state, the church, what our pa rents told the state, the church, what our parents told us. now we can go where we want, we can change our names, we can change our agenda. why can't i

change my age? does he have a point? lam change my age? does he have a point? i am flabbergasted. i started out thinking i was going to be sympathetic i am less sympathetic the more i listen, because i thought we we re the more i listen, because i thought we were talking about discrimination. aegis domination. yes, andl discrimination. aegis domination. yes, and i thought perhaps in holland you have less robust laws. —— age discrimination. a mortgage company is not interested in your e, company is not interested in your age, it is how many years you're likely to be alive. doesn't matter what age it says. tell him about what age it says. tell him about what you feel about the comparison with trans people. people fib everywhere, i fib on tinder, i thought everybody did. there is to

skim the nation against —— there is discrimination against —— there is discrimination against trans people. it is a medical...” respect your meaning. my doctor said that. that's the beautiful thing about living here now in 2018. i can say what i like you can say what you like i can do whatever i like. say what i like you can say what you like i can do whateverl like. there isn't a recognised condition of age dysphoria, there is gender dysphoria. we now have the first people in holland who have x on the passport, instead of man or woman. we don't have that any more. we are before everybody in holland. this

comes back to the fact that you keep saying it's a choice. it isn't a choice. you are talking about something that is physiological. some people would like to retire early. i went to a shrink and he said perhaps you have peter pan complex. i was lying on the couch and he was examining me. he said no, you don't have peter pan complex, that means if you are getting old you cannot accept it. then he said perhaps you have another complex. are you aware of what you are going through, what is going to happen to you, he said. he examined me again. he said you are fully aware of what you are doing. it's my feeling, it's your feeling, when you are a man, your feeling, when you are a man, you had a feeling, i want to be a woman, iam you had a feeling, i want to be a woman, i am a you had a feeling, i want to be a woman, i am a woman. you had a feeling, i want to be a woman, i am a woman. that's ok. i have a feeling that i want to be younger. you respect me, i respect you. we don't have to enter this discussion because it is your feeling. no, no. it's yourfeeling,

it's my feeling, i want you to respect me. it's not purely about a feeling. it's about a sense of identity that persists. it has strong biological roots that people are transgender. it has decades of understanding and background to it. what you are actually doing is trying to make a comparison that is really quite tasteless.” trying to make a comparison that is really quite tasteless. i don't agree. it is causing harm to people and grief. please let her finish her sentence. you are causing harm. you are causing grief. you do not need to go down this route in order to get some sort of proportionality. look in the future. people get older. people get better. if you have this standpoint from age, we have this standpoint from age, we have to stop working when we are 67, we cannot increase our quality of life because we are getting older.

1296 life because we are getting older. 12% of the people are older than 60. in 20 years, more than 35% of people will become older than 65. if we have a different stamp on them. if we ta ke have a different stamp on them. if we take a biological stamp instead ofa we take a biological stamp instead of a physical stamp about the age you really are. then you have a different opportunity. it has to do with beliefs. you have presented your arguments to the court. when do they decide? four weeks. we shall see what happens. thank you both. susan says if a man chooses to change his age will he forfeit his pension? you accept that. thank you. almost1 million children die from pneumonia around the world each year. new research by the charity, save the children, estimates that number could reach nearly

eleven—million by 2030 without improvements in vaccination rates and access to treatment. pneumonia kills more children around the world than any other infectious disease?— more than malaria and measles combined. the disease is most prevalent in countries in south asia and sub—saharan africa. we can speak now to dr afeworki abraham — save the children's? public health specialist in kenya, where thosaunds of children under five die from pneumonia each year. thank you for talking to us. what are you trying to do about this? ain't you for having me. —— thank you for having me. i work in tenure asa you for having me. i work in tenure as a health specialist. one of my jobsis as a health specialist. one of my jobs is to design programmes for children and others close to several

counties in tenure. i'm working this programme to see that the quality of ca re programme to see that the quality of care being given to children and mothers is of a higher standard. at the same time, i work together with the same time, i work together with the minister of health to see, to improve some of the capacities, the gaps they have, in terms of knowledge of the disease, prevention of the disease, and treatment. pneumonia is one of the key diseases in kenya. we are focusing on pneumonia particularly. inaudible sorry to interrupts, doctor abraham, why are so many dying from this disease. in kenya it kills around 10,000 children each year. the main reasons are lack of access. mothers,

especially in some remote areas, northern kenya, northwest, there is a lack of education, lack of knowledge, and lack of recognition of the danger signs, so children die before they are diagnosed. also, infrastructure, there is no transport system. they cannot reach places of help. that is another way we are addressing the problem. another one is vaccination. children are not immunised against pneumonia. 50% of children don't receive any vaccinations for pneumonia. other underlying factors are there, for example nutrition. if children are undernourished they don't have the capability to fight the disease. thank you very much. i appreciate

how busy you are. thank you very much. thank you for getting in touch with us, particularly on the issue of coercive control. we were speaking to the son of a mother who was about to the son of a mother who was about to go to the court of appeal to argue that she suffered decades of coercive control at the hands of her husband who she killed in 2010 with a hammer. jamie says, i'm disgusted by this story, that woman murdered somebody and you are using this story to push your own political agenda. she's a convicted murderer. you are making out that this man deserved to be murdered. women can be abusive... women can also be abusive. this text says, i was in controlling relationship for ten yea rs, controlling relationship for ten years, my girlfriend controlled what i could wear, who i could see. she would get extremely angry if i talked to any woman, even if it was a passing comment with someone. i lost my friends, my confidence, etc.

i married a wonderful woman just over a year ago, we have two wonderful children. i now understand what a healthy, balanced relationship is. this text says, my story is the same as this young man's mother. a charming man to the outside world who cut me off for my family, even my daughter, and totally controlled me. psychologically, as well. i haven't recovered, neither have the children, even though we have been divorced for many years. there are many more which i will try and read before the end of the programme. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. the essex village of jaywick hit the headlines recently when an ally of donald trump tried to pass off an old photo of one its rundown streets as a vision of broken america in a campaign advert. that happened to coincide with a visit from the united nations, whose special investigator

on poverty is currenly travelling around britain examining the effects of eight years of austerity on the uk. during his fact—finding mission to jaywick yesterday, professor philip alston told this programme the government's spending and welfare policies since 2010 were ‘an experiment unlike anything tried elsewhere in the world' . he also questioned the government's recent claim that austerity was at an end. the government says that household incomes have never been higher and there are 1 million fewer people living in absolute poverty than in 2010. but what effect has austerity — reduced spending and radical changes to the welfare state — had on places like jaywick? ? when i came to jaywick, this was a shop, this was a casino, loads of fruit machines,

loads of great life, that is where all the young people went. jaywick had so much culture and class in those days. it used to be thriving because we used to have a butlins in the town and the butlins employed a lot of people. all the people that couldn't get chalets at butlins used to come to jaywick instead. it was amazing, it was like a holiday village, it always felt you was on holiday. but can you imagine when they shut butlins in 198a? what that did to jaywick? well, it went from like the costa deljaywick to a ghost town. i still walk with a limp now and i'm in a lot of pain. the pain i have for the rest of my life, it is a lifelong disability. i'm a horror film fan.

you'll have to bear with the way it looks, all my worldly possessions are in here. i'm assuming i've got asbestos in here. plus the damp. cold weather. when it gets to wintertime, you have to acclimatise, so to speak. i don't understand how i can be left living in a shed for 15 months. they couldn't care less. they must think we are just the scum of the earth and, yeah, that we have brought this on ourselves. i have reasons to stay in jaywick. i have a terrible past.

prison, things like that. and that is my old life. i don't want to be around people from my old life. you have to do these assessments, then you have to wait to see whether you pass, so to speak. my attitude is, do you want to take a look at the gaping holes? it's expensive being homeless. when you want a hot meal and you have to spend £5 at least on a takeaway, you can't wash your clothes so therefore i am buying clothes, wearing them every day and then

going round the charity shops buying other ones. some people would probably argue you should give up smoking... but i am not going to give up the one thing i enjoy in life. the problem you have here injaywick is people to have somewhere to live. there is not enough property for people to live anyway and people sleeping in sheds etc. but really they should be social housing, as i put it. there is not even a shop from there to there in about a mile radius. there is not even one shop. so how do think these old ladies fe3l, how do you think mrsjones feels when she wants to get a loaf of bread and she's 85 years old? she can't even get down here to get a loaf of bread. the united nations are coming to jaywick? we are great and we are worth saving. i want them to see jaywick. i want them to see the lovely community we have here and the beautiful people who are here, but i want them to realise what sort of a rundown area we have got here and how much we are in need of it

all being rebuilt. it is great that those at the top are doing well, that is how it should be and it can help, but you need to make sure that there is basic dignity, that there is fairness, that there is socialjustice in the bottom ten, 20%, even a0% of the population. i don't think any changes of this magnitude and based on such clearly different principles have really been implemented in other countries. so i think that's another reason why the uk is of particular importance for me. i am watching poverty cripple my mother and potentially destroy my siblings' future and my own. why are so many people crumbling under their burden and losing their fight? why in a country such as this is all i see around me poverty? we have paid our taxes, we are hard workers, we are active in our community. we are the very people who the government should be investing in. but still we are facing the very real and quite terrifying possibility of being homeless.

and it is a lonely world out there. and you don't realise how lonely it gets until you lose everything. there was no way out, we were relying on food banks, we could just afford to feed the kids. i stood at the side of the road one day contemplating life and thought if i was to die now, no—one would miss me, i am useless, i cannot provide for my family. i am just going to end it. the government expects so many young people to go to school, go to college and spend all your money on university because then you will finally get the job you want. it doesn't work like that any more. the council ignore us because we are from jaywick, but we will not be ignored. applause now we have reached a defining moment on this long, hard journey. opening a new chapter in our country's economic history where we can look confidently to the future and set our course for where this remarkable country will go next.

because today, mr deputy speaker, i can report to the british people that their hard work is paying off and the era of austerity is finally coming to an end. cheering maybe i should just go home if austerity is all over. i haven't seen that most of the key policies that have come with austerity have been rolled back by any means. i mean, if it indicates a willingness to start re—examining some of those policies, i think that would be very welcome. i think austerities are going to get worse. the way they are being squeezed and squeezed etc. me personally ijust want somewhere to rebuild jaywick, it is the way it should be. just my little moment of peace in jaywick. some keys and a door, a front door to walk into, a place to invite a girl to. to have a cup of coffee. the basic things in life. tendring district council point out

that they've recently spent £6.5 million on roads and drainage injaywick sands, and they are building ten new homes for community use. when the poverty investigator reports back we will tell you what he has to say. a bbc panorama investigation into the impact of the government's controversial new benefit system, universal credit, has revealed that council tenants owe, on average, two and a half times as much in unpaid rent as those still on the old benefits. in some areas things are even more extreme — our reporter catrin nye has been investigating this. what have you found? we contacted every local authority in the uk that has council houses asking about their rent arrears. 129 councils responded and it showed us that the average rent owed for tenants on universal credit

is £662 — for those still on housing benefit it's £262. so that average is two and a half times as much. for the last nine months we've been filming with the housing department in flilntshire in north wales?dealing?because it's one of the first places to have universal credit rolled out. 23% of benefit claimants there are on it?there?compared to 10% across the whole uk. we found the situation there even worse. rent arrears there are four times as bad for those on uc — in september they were six times as high. compared with those on the old benefits system. and what's the impact of these rent arrears? well for some people it means eviction — while we have been filming we have seen while we have been filming we have seen people who have had to deal with that. some are facing homelessness having moved onto universal credit.

and it's having a big impact on council budgets. over the 18 months they have had universal credit in flintshire, their rent arrears bill has gone up by half £1 million. and they specifically blame universal credit for a large proportion of that. one very significant part of universal credit that councils say is causing big problems is the fact that rent money is now given to claimants themselves and not direct to the council as it was before. that means some people — if they're short of cash don't pay their rent and buy other essentials like food instead. flintshire, and other councils, say universal credit is just transferring costs from central government to them. what do the government say? the department for work and pensions say it is possible to arrange for rent to go to landlords direct — which is true — but councils as well as private landlords have told us it's very difficult to arrange in practice. you have to be in a crisis situation

in order to get it. the government has also announced significant extra funding in the budget. this is for universal credit. critics say that extra money is good but it is some of these fundamental principles, like this way of paying rent, like the delays, but need a rethink. what time is it on tonight? 7:30pm. thanks very much. this text says, it is time for clarity, we don't require permission from the eu to leave, we can just leave and keep the money. we will trade with europe just like we do perfectly well with the rest of the world. andy says if mr starmer stops brexit, what labour get wiped out in the midlands and north of england.

the labour party is in london, you know? this text says mr starmer is a traitor to labour supporters who voted to leave the eu. let's hope they don't do well in the next general election. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. thank you for your company today. have a good day. he may have had to do some shower dodging this morning. as we go through into the afternoon, more showers to dodge. that is the theme for today, sunny spells and showers. this was the scene early on the isle of wight, showers looking threatening. bolts of the showers towards the south—east of england and through southern counties, and quite a few showers to northern wales and up to scotland, too. blustery conditions with no showers.

the eastern england, the midlands, and eastern parts of scotland looking pretty dry with the risk of the shower here lower compared with the shower here lower compared with the west. showers still piling on from the west. as we go through the night, then the clear spells. temperatures getting down to around six that eight celsius. staying on the mild side. that will continue for much of the week, temperatures above average the time of year. tuesday, fewer showers, lengthy spells of sunshine, with maximum tebbit are similar to today, 12 to 14 tebbit are similar to today, 12 to 1a degrees. —— temperatures similar. goodbye. you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's 11:00am and these are

the main stories this morning: pressure on theresa may to get cabinet backing for her eu withdrawal plans, as labour's spokesman says brexit could be stopped if the she can't bring back a deal. if she fails they would have to be a general election. that's on the table including a public vote. at least 29 people have died and more than 200 are missing as wildfires continue to spread across the us state of california. two men are to appear in court charged in connection with a collision in sheffield on friday which killed four people, including a father and his son. "motivated by spite". the australian woman accused of starting a nationwide food scare by placing needles in strawberries.