good morning. it's wednesday, it's 10am, i'm victoria derbyshire. good morning. none of the pm's top team has resigned — so far — over the brexit withdrawal deal that mrs may has come up with. there's an emergency cabinet meeting this afternoon — what will their verdict be? norman at downing street for you this morning. it's not perfect but it's the best deal we are going to get. mrs may's message to cabinet whose backing will determine whether her deal and maybe her premiership survives. we will tell you what is actually known about this withdrawal agreement, and we want to know from you this morning, is this what you voted for? a third of people in debt wait for more than a year before seeking help — accpording to new research today. we'll talk to this man who took 30 years and debts of £50,000 before he asked for help. where do your children get their news from, and do they know if it's true or fake?

twitter, instagram. normally on the tv and social media such as snapchat and twitter. i get a lot of my news from the tv like itv news, bbc news. some of it comes from social media, mainly snapchat. we've been finding out how youngsters are being taught to spot what is real and what is fake news. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until ”am this morning. this draft agreement and what you have heard of it, doesn't sound like what you voted for in the eu referendum? this is what some you say. suzanne on twitter says, never ina say. suzanne on twitter says, never in a month of sundays, this bunch of jokers is the absolute opposite of what i voted for. graham says, no, we voted leave, parliament had no mandate to look for compromise. robert says, i voted remain and i'm

still utterly confused. david says, this is not what i voted for. this isa this is not what i voted for. this is a debacle, i voted remain. use the #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe want to take part in the programme, it would be good to get your views we re ever it would be good to get your views were ever you are in the country on this draft withdrawal agreement. does it sound like what you voted for? please include your phone number in your message. there is twitter and whatsapp, the usual. first before we get the conversation about brexit, let's bring you the news with ben. the prime minister has agreed a draft brexit deal with eu officials and faces the task of persuading her cabinet, which will meet this afternoon, to back it. ministers were given details of the 500—page agreement in individual briefings with further one—to—one sessions taking place this morning. details leaked so far have drawn hostile reaction from several quarters. the democratic unionists, labour, and a number of conservative mps say they're likely to oppose the plan. an nhs trust at the centre of an alleged maternity care scandal

is being accused by more than 200 families of failing them with poor care. the bbc has been told that dozens of parents say their babies died between 1998 and 2017, because of errors by the shrewsbury and telford trust. the trust says it's co—operating fully with an independent review. the number of people killed in california's deadliest wildfires has now risen to 50 with dozens still missing. firefighters say they've now contained the worst of the fires in the north of the state but they don't expect to fully get it under control until the end of the month. it's the deadliest wildfire in the region's history. melania trump's office has called for the sacking of a top national security aide to president trump. a statement from the office of the first lady says mira ricardel no longer deserves the honour of serving at the white house. us media report that mrs trump's staff clashed with mrs ricardel on a trip

to africa last month, apparently over airline seating. buckingham palace have issued two new portaits to mark prince charles‘ 70th birthday. the heir to the throne will spend the occasion having tea with a group of inspirational 70—year—olds, before attending a private party hosted by the queen at buckingham palace. that's a summary of the news. back to you victoria. question to you this morning. is this the brexit you voted for? use #victorialive. if you're emailing and want to come on to talk about brexit today, do please include your phone number in your message. well, it's been two and a half years in the making and its finally here — the draft agreement on brexit agreed between uk and eu negotiators. theresa may has been briefing her top team — the cabinet — individually last night and this morning. and this afternoon they all come together for a crucial meeting at 2pm. what will their verdict be? norman is in downing street. no resignations so far. is it

looking good for mrs may?|j no resignations so far. is it looking good for mrs may? i think the chances are she will manage to avoid a mass walk—out, or indeed senior resignations. lower down the cabinet ranks, things become a bit more problematic, people have cited the names of people like penny mordaunt, esther mcvey. interestingly, penny mordaunt, the international development secretary, was seeing mrs may about 8:30am this morning, for about half an hour, so quite a short meeting. lot of speculation about whether she could possibly quit. i just sense that the mood isn't quite therefore that open revolt. in part because the stakes are so revolt. in part because the stakes are so enormously high if there was to bea are so enormously high if there was to be a mass resignation or pivotal figures were to quit, that would probably scupper mrs may's brexit deal. it could fatally undermine her leadership. it could sort of cascade us

leadership. it could sort of cascade us towards no deal. the stakes for individual ministers are enormous. they have some really tough decisions to make, never mind all their doubts and reservations about brexit. i think mrs may has been quite canny about this in the way she has chosen to see individual ministers one—on—one, in other words to eye ball ministers one—on—one, in other words to eyeball them ahead of the crucial cabinet meeting. if you think about it, it is easy as a group to say we don't like this, we're not going to put up with it. much harder to say on your own to mrs may, sorry, i can't go along with it. i think psychologically that is quite a clever move. but we will have to see. as i say, for many people, this is an enormous issue of principle about the future destiny of our country. if the cabinet do sign it off she has got to sell it to her own mps and parliament. some of the reaction from conservative backbenchers among others has been furious. jacob rees—mogg, for example, who would like a hard

brexit said he will not send in a letter calling for a vote of no—confidence in mrs may within the next 2a hours with the threat that he could do it after that. is that the next move of the people who hate the next move of the people who hate the sound of this agreement from within the conservative party?|j think the truth is they have not yet decided but it is very definitely an option. i was speaking to one of jacob rees—mogg's key lieutenants, if you like, and he said to me "nothing is off the table." and by that he said dumber he meant they are prepared to start a leadership contest are prepared to start a leadership co ntest — — are prepared to start a leadership contest —— and by that he meant. they have two lines possibly. one is to provide the leadership contest and the second is defeating mrs may in the commons. both of which, they acknowledge, would result in a chaotic political crisis. no one quite knows what would follow. in a funny sort of way, that danger is

almost mrs may's strongest card, the fear of what toppling her or her brexit might actually result in. what we will hear from the prime minister today is sort of a message of, ok, this might not be absolutely what you want but it's the best we are going to get. there is no better deal on the table and it's in the national interest. her argument being, look, if you vote this down you may not get brexit at all. in terms of the detail they think the document, yes, it involves concessions and compromise, but in key areas, for example, in ensuring there is no separate customs arrangements for northern ireland, they say absolutely no there isn't, and in terms of an exit process to get us out of this customs arrangement, they say, yes, there is an arbitration mechanism. there is an arbitration mechanism. there is an awful lot of detail and legal text to go through. but i think their hope is that on balance

ministers will balk at, as it were, pressing the nuclear button and rejecting her deal. very briefly, norman, mrs may has no majority without democratic unionist politicians and the ones i've heard in the media in the last 2a hours are emphatic they will vote against this. you know, that is the other titanic wave coming towards mrs may and not just brexit, titanic wave coming towards mrs may and notjust brexit, but she has so incensed, angered, alienating the dup, on whom she depends to govern, that you wonder how on earth does she get legislation through now with the dup on the war path, incensed, furious? she seems to have lost the pf°p furious? she seems to have lost the prop they provide to her parliamentary majority. so, it's not just about brexit, it's about can mrs may govern without the dup? and really, it is hard to see how she is going to manage to get votes through

without their support. thank you, norman. thank you for your messages. chris on facebook says i hope this shoddy deal is ripped up and will leave with no deal is that is the only true brexit. bill on twitter says, this is not brexit and i think the establishment were never going to allow the vote to succeed. crazy home use on twitter says it is simple, we were told we could leave with the benefits of eu membership and have an extra £350 million a week. this is now obviously alive. we are suddenly better informed. i'm joined now by some mps who the prime minister will need to sell her brexit deal to. jenny chapman is a shadow brexit minister. mark francois is a conservative and the vice chair of the european research group — that's a group of pro—brexit backbench mps. we will also speak to his colleague ina we will also speak to his colleague in a moment philip dilley who is up

for a second referendum. and, layla moran is the lib dem spokesperson for education. they want a referendum on the final deal. welcome to all of you. mark francois, let me put this to you, this might be the best it can get, and the alternative is possibly no brexit at all. well, i don't accept that and we have yet to see the precise text, but going by all the lea ks precise text, but going by all the leaks that have been in the media and the various hints and suggestions, if this goes through cabinet, and i yet hope that it won't, but if it goes through cabinet then we will undoubtedly vote against it in the house of commons. you have just vote against it in the house of commons. you havejust said that vote against it in the house of commons. you have just said that the dup will do the same. i believe the bulk of the labour party will. i believe the liberals will and i believe the liberals will and i believe the liberals will and i believe the snp will. so there is absolutely no way, even if cabinet approve this today that it will ever

get through parliament. do you agree with that assessment, jenny chapman, from labour? at the moment it looks unlikely but there is the significant caveat that we haven't seen it. so we all need to take a breath, i think, seen it. so we all need to take a breath, ithink, and seen it. so we all need to take a breath, i think, and wait until we have seen it. certainly, at this stage the indications that support for this is looking pretty thin on the ground at the moment. lejla moran, would you vote for what this sounds like? no, we have always been quite clear that we would want something that had all the same benefits, and in fact we would rather have stayed in the eu, which we know very well, but critically, what strikes me is this is all today speaking about selling it to us and what i'm more interested in is is this what the people actually wanted? a small snapshot of messages i received today, both remainers and leavers don't like the sound of it. that's why this is where a people's vote is necessary because it is only logical that now that it has come back and we know what it was, i don't remember seeing this kind of a

deal during the leave campaign, nobody wanted this, and it's interesting that the hardliners are deserting theresa may. this is why it needs to go back to the people and we double—check what they wanted and we double—check what they wanted and they need that option to remain in the eu if they feel that is a better option. mark francois, i want to talk through with you the potential scenarios if parliament does vote this down. what do you think will happen after that? well, let's see if we get to that. lets see if it gets through cabinet first. let's take out fences once at a time. i'm working on the sun shcherbak cabinet says yes, might be wrong but i want to work through what will happen. i get what you're doing but i want to make a point about cabinet, those people are at the apex of the british political system. within the conservative party they are the officers, if you like, and the decision they make todayis like, and the decision they make today is undoubtedly the most important decision that any of them

will ever make in their lives. they will ever make in their lives. they will have to live with the consequences of that forever. yeah, but you heard lord hain on the radio this morning, a eurosceptic and former conservative leader, says people like you need to see the bigger picture or was there might not be a bigger picture.|j bigger picture or was there might not be a bigger picture. i seen the bigger picture, 17.4 million times over, and the british people voted to leave. this is not leaving, it is half in and half out and it's actually worse than what we have at the moment, which is why i think cabinet ministers have got to look into their hearts and their consciences today and do what is right for the country. and by that you mean resign, and no one has resigned so far. we haven't had the cabinet meeting yet. i think what we are all wondering is this is the destiny of our country at stake, no doubt about that. is there somewhere in that cabinet a winston churchill, if you like, who will have the moral courage to stand up and say that this is wrong? i'm just going to

pause there becausejenny chapman rolled her eyes from the reference to winston churchill. why was that? i'm not trying to offend mark in any way at all, he seems like a perfectly nice chap. but invoking winston churchill and wartime spirit and all of these things, we are all tired of this. actually, what we wa nt tired of this. actually, what we want isa tired of this. actually, what we want is a nice, reasonable discussion about a deal. we have set out our tests about how we are going tojudge this deal out our tests about how we are going to judge this deal and out our tests about how we are going tojudge this deal and we are going tojudge this deal and we are going to vote according to that. let's just get real and stop with some of this over the top, trying to emotor people into doing something, rather than actually a reasoned argument. there have been too few reasoned argument throughout this whole process and it has to stop now and we've got to do this properly. winston churchill is a bad person to evoke both as he was pretty pro—european and there are question marks over whether he would agree with this. but i agree withjenny completely, because we have been

missing this level of detail. what i keep getting his constituents saying, i know so much more now than idid saying, i know so much more now than i did back then when i voted. everyone knows more, heiner mora, i'm sure everyone in this room knows more and everyone watching knows more. “— more and everyone watching knows more. —— i know more. people can have their say knowing more and more detail. you wanted to wanted to respond to respond, mark francois. yes, people will get emotive about this because it's the future of our whole country. if you are not going to get emotive about this, what on earth are you going to get emotive about? there are great things at sta ke about? there are great things at stake here. history willjudge what every member of that cabinet does today for the rest of their lives. caring and hyperbole are different things and i think the public has become very used to being able to judge the difference, is howl become very used to being able to judge the difference, is how i would respond to that one, mark. on twitter, quack educ says this is treason, theresa may needs to be

removed asap, this is not what the electro— voted for. we voted to leave the eu completely. if the brexiteer cabinet members do not design dummett resigned later today the conservative party will not recover “— the conservative party will not recover —— the electorate. oliver on twitter says i want to be clear i may remain and i wouldn't vote for this absurd deal, we would still have to abide by eu decisions and laws and have no say in them? absolutely not, no deal or no brexit, pick one. say on facebook says they remain cannot negotiate brexit, simple. iwant says they remain cannot negotiate brexit, simple. i want to talk through a scenario of ulema defeating the sand voting against it. mark francois, what happens after that? —— a remain person. it. mark francois, what happens after that? -- a remain person. the government would look at an alternative. we have argued consistently in the erg is a better option that we call super canada. would that be with theresa may still

as your leader and british prime minister? well, we would have to wait and see, i think. for a prime minister to lose a fundamental vote ona minister to lose a fundamental vote on a crunch issue of policy in the house of commons is distinctly suboptimal. in your view she would have to go? i didn't say that. you pretty much did, we are not stupid! but if the prime minister persists on this course and if the officers, if you like, in the cabinet go with it then it would be down to us, the backbenchers, the poor bloody infa ntry backbenchers, the poor bloody infantry in the conservative party, to stop it, and we will. philip lee, i'm not sure if you could hear your conservative colleague mark francois talk about what might happen if parliament defeat this draft withdrawal agreement, but basically it sounds like mrs may would not be long for this world. what would you say to that? i really don't want to see the prime minister resigning.

indeed, for the prime minister to be removed, i think realistically she would have to voluntarily go because there is no majority in the conservative party to remove her. what i want to see is the deal voted downjust like mark. i don't think the details of the deal that we are aware of in any way match the vote leave campaign promises of the 2016 referendum and that's why i resigned injune, called referendum and that's why i resigned in june, called for the referendum and that's why i resigned injune, called forthe informed consent of the public to be sought ina furthervote. consent of the public to be sought in a further vote. maybe the promises were all bs back then. we all know that. is that true? i have had people crying in the surgery because of that, the £350 million for the nhs every week. you have had people crying because of what? because they believed that and realise pretty soon afterwards it was a complete life and they felt totally duped and it now feels like we are being blackmailed. either you acce pt

we are being blackmailed. either you accept no deal what you accept this frankly botched brexit and it doesn't have to be that way. frankly botched brexit and it doesn't have to be that waym frankly botched brexit and it doesn't have to be that way. it was a lwa ys doesn't have to be that way. it was always going to be a compromise, always. yes, absolutely. i was elected on a mandate of an exit from brexit and the people's vote and thatis brexit and the people's vote and that is what i will try and deliver but there is another way theresa may could have done this. i was elected la st could have done this. i was elected last summerand could have done this. i was elected last summer and there was a hung parliament deliver. when a hung parliament deliver. when a hung parliament is delivered that is the people saying to the prime minister, work across party and find something everyone can get behind. but instead she went into bed with the ha rdliners she went into bed with the hardliners and dup who are all over twitter and the television deserting her. she has botched the strategy. there is something in what labour said at the lack of willingness of the prime ministers not reaching out to other parties —— what layla moran said. yasin iain duncan—smith this morning. she hasn't picked up the phone to anybody in any other party, keirstarmer

phone to anybody in any other party, keir starmer the labour brexit spokesperson also i think that reveals this lack of confidence. —— you have seen iain duncan—smith. she's not sure she can get this through the cabinet. it looks like a deal designed to get through for the benefit of the tory party rather than the benefit of the country. that has always been the fundamental problem with her approach. all four of you coming from different wings of you coming from different wings of the political spectrum, you have all said emphatically you will vote against this. i haven't said that. i said we would look at the deal and apply our tests. it is really going to bea apply our tests. it is really going to be a struggle for all of us. but iagree, to be a struggle for all of us. but i agree, let's read it first, at least that! i take that point, jenny chapman. if it comes to the point where you have read it and you think it doesn't satisfy our six tests, which i have not spoken to anyone in reva who thinks it will, when push comes to shove, will you really vote against it? —— anyone in labour.“

it is not a good deal for the country and my constituents i will have to vote against it. you cannot look yourself in the mirror and think you have voted for something that you know is not good enough. but are the alternatives more unpalatable? there are many alternatives and what the prime minister is trying to do is to say, to one group of people she is saying the alternative is no brexit, to be ofa group the alternative is no brexit, to be of a group of people she is saying the alternative is no deal. you cannot have it both ways. there are many things that could happen. the alternatives, no deal, general election, which you say you would like, if that doesn't happen you say you would like a referendum on the deal. or an extension to the negotiation period, or she can come to parliament and seek clear negotiating objectives with the consent of parliament which she should have done in the first place. the red lines were inherently illogical. there was no way that they would all work out. so actually, there is a point there, if the red lines were not there in the first place they may have been another way. phillip lee, when push comes to shove will you vote against

it knowing the alternatives? yes, i feel like i keep repeating myself. any deal with any detail i want to be subject to a people's vote. it is a very simple principle. where we are going to end up is not what was promised. this is political fraud and i'm not putting my name to it. if the public, having read the deal and understand that northern ireland will be treated differently, having understood we are going to be taking the obligations are not the benefits in effect of eu membership, if they understand all of that and then vote for it, i am a democrat and i respect that, but none of that appeared on the side of a bus in 2016. and as a consequence, for the sake of my brexit voters and remain voters, i cannot vote for this deal. cani voters, i cannot vote for this deal. can i make a point? yes. your viewers will have seen none of the four of us is enthusiastic for this, none of the fall of us have said we

are going to vote for it, three of the four of us have said we will vote against it and the fourth from the labour party has said they will probably vote against it. —— the fall of us. this is the difficulty, once you get outside the camp that there is hardly anybody who wants this and the cabinet know that. —— once you get outside the cabinet. if they approve it today it will never get through the house of commons and the last ten minutes of discussion on your programme prove exactly that point. phillip lee is on the remain wing of the tory party and i'm on the leave wing but we have both said for our own the leave wing but we have both said for our own reasons we the leave wing but we have both said for our own reasons we will not vote for our own reasons we will not vote for this. try and find some tory backbenchers who will come on your programme and say they will vote for it. they will say we need to read it first. john says on text brexit but a lwa ys first. john says on text brexit but always involve compromise, naive to think otherwise. richard tweets, brexiteers and remainers need a reality check, compromise is a fundamental part of party politics and nobody should expect to get everything they want. adam gee

milos, i'm 27 and voted to leave it one half years ago, totally dismayed by this draft deal and the way forward is to have a clean break with the eu, something that should have been done two and a half years ago but never was. calum best 20 and he e—mails, i campaigned for an voted remain but have since become a staunch advocate for brexit. i think it's time we got out and we did it properly and if we can't get a good deal we must leave with no deal. if the rumours about the draft are true then the pm is looking towards a bad deal and that is unacceptable and not what the people chose in 2016. wherever you are in the country, tell us from what you have gleaned about this draft withdrawal agreement, and obviously none of us have read it except the primer stand her closest aides and a few cabinet members from the sainte devote —— the prime minister. is this what you voted for? —— from the sound of it. our reality check correspondent chris morris is here.

i haven't read it! if i had i wouldn't tell you! what do we know about the deal that what we think is in it? a lot of it is known because it's been public knowledge for months, the financial settlement, divorce or, £39 billion plus things on citizens‘ rights which many brits in the eu are still deeply unhappy about. it‘s the key bits, the key legal language we don‘t know yet surrounding particularly the backstop in northern ireland. the other thing worth pointing out this morning is, understandably, we are staring at our own navel because brexit is basically about us but the withdrawal agreement needs to be agreed with the eu too. now that the backstop contains as a potential scenario a uk wide temporary customs union, that is a pretty big trade agreement. other countries will also have lawyers pouring through the detail making sure they don‘t think

the uk would get any kind of competitive advantage and also making sure that there are not things in there they cannot live with. trade agreement of a kind normally takes months and months, sometimes years to negotiate.“ normally takes months and months, sometimes years to negotiate. it is worth repeating, this is the withdrawal agreement. this is not the trade deal. this is what happens until the end of transition, or intimidation, as the prime minister calls it, to the end of 2020. that's right. this is the withdrawal agreement, alongside it it may also be published today, an outline political decoration fault of the withdrawal agreement will be 500 pages, the outline declaration about the future, roughly five pages, that will set the tone and aspiration, if you like, for the relationship that is to come on foreign policy, security but most importantly of course on trade and economic policy. the government will use that to say, look, we have a direction, this is not a blind brexit, but i think it‘s fairto not a blind brexit, but i think it‘s fair to say it will still be fairly foggy because we don‘t know where it

will end up. that 5—page document is due to be made into a slightly longer document which other eu leaders will sign off as the road map for the way forward. of course, still got to get past these guys in parliament first. and ladies. thank you, chris. i used guys in the general sense. i was being facetious, you know we love you. chris morris from the bbc‘s reality check. we brought together a group of people we call our brexit bunch. one of them was from the lowestoft fish market alliance. she sells fish in the town every morning and she was definitely in favour of leaving the eu and i think we can talk to june right now. how are you? good money, victoria. i‘m fine, thank you. thank you forjoining us. we hope to talk to more of the brexit bunch in the next half—hour. from

what you have heard about this withdrawal agreement draft, what do you think? the whole thing is an absolute crime scene. i cannot believe after 22 months we have come to this. brexit means brexit, no deal is better than a bad deal. theresa may‘s words, not mine. and, you know, a little quote i‘d like to say to everyone today, courage is what it takes to stand up and speak. courage is also what it takes to sit down. winston churchill. in her case, step—down. that‘s what she needs to do because i really don‘t think any legitimate ha rd—working, honest politician will stand by this. so you want her to go. yes. who do you think could do a better job in these trying circumstances? john redwood. i think he could be a very good caretaker. i‘m not saying he would take the job for the foreseeable future but at this stage

my money would be onjohn redwood. he worked very well with margaret thatcher. he‘s a very honest guy. he‘s decent and he knows his stuff and! he‘s decent and he knows his stuff and i think he would do it for the country and rather than for his own career. your message to the cabinet when they get together for this to be an emergency cabinet meeting this afternoon? what do you want to say to them? you are public servants. you are not our masters. do the right thing for the people of great britain. that means reject it? yes, certainly! thank you, june. thank you forjoining us. jenny chapman from labour, shadow brexit minister, layla moran, education spokesperson from the liberal democrats advocating for a referendum on the deal, mark francois, conservative backbench mp, vice—chair of the european research group and also phillip blake who is a conservative backbench mp as well. he is also

containing four the so—called people‘s vote —— philip lee. keep your messages coming in. i‘m asking, is this what you voted for? in a moment we‘ll talk to a man who got himself into debts of up to £50,000, as new research says a third of people in debt take a year before asking for help. can your children spot "fake news" when they‘re browsing the internet? do get in touch with us throughout the morning. use the #victorialive. a third of people in debt wait for more than a year

before seeking help — according to new research today — often because of embarassment or burying their heads in the sand because of the stress of it all. so how do we get people to seek out help and what help do they need? now banks, businesses and charities — along with the government — are coming together to try and find ways to encourage people let‘s talk now to david cook, who at one point was £50,000 in debt, causing in part the breakdown of his 32 year marriage, lucretia murray who works on the front line of a citizens advice centre in london dealing with people and their debts, and caroline siarkiewicz from debt charity the money advice service. thank you so much. thank you for coming on the programme overview.

explain to the audience, david, how you got up into debts of up to 50,000 clients? —— you got up into debts of up to 50,000 clients? -- £50,000.” 50,000 clients? -- £50,000. i got a stage of my life where i was not able to manage money. i got further and further into debt and theyjust built up and built up. where you getting easy credit? credit was very easy to get. no problems in being able to get additional funds of money. too easy to get, actually. what we‘re spending money on? money. too easy to get, actually. what we're spending money on? just anything, nothing in particular, just had no control over money at all. and never pay anything back. and prose canter the dollar, most of them ended up being envelopes in jewels, you never used a deal with them. the phone would ring and you wouldn‘t answer the phone. you just didn‘t want to acknowledge the fact that you were in a lot of financial difficulties. how stressful was it?

very. couldn‘t sleep, family life and people around you, it didn‘t help a lot the situation. 30 years before you restart for help.“ help a lot the situation. 30 years before you restart for help. it took mea before you restart for help. it took me a good 30 years. —— before he reached out for help. to get a handle on it and deal with it. i found that a lot of companies approach you. you mean debt collection companies. yes, quite aggressive and it didn‘t help me wanting to deal with the situation. are you surprised by the research which suggests that people wait a year, david was talking about 30 yea rs, year, david was talking about 30 years, but people wait 12 months before seeking help? people do that for different reasons, because it is very stressful. our clients come to us very stressful. our clients come to us at the last minute at citizens advice, they don't know what to do, how to get out of debt, but also

they are probably embarrassed about it. so they are having problems disclosing it to their families, haven't told friends, so it has taken them some time to actually seek help with managing their money. david story illustrates the important thing is, when you do get help you can turn your life around, and that is the important message for people out there. you are not alone. one of the things about being in debt is you feel completely isolated, that only you are struggling with this, but there are 8 million people across the uk who are 8 million people across the uk who a re overly 8 million people across the uk who are overly indebted, struggling with their bills, as some of those on the crisis point and others, but we know that people who talk about their debts, they are not alone, is not unusual, go and get some help and you can turn your life around. where do you turn to first? where do you go? one of the things about people struggling with debt, people don't

know that we help is available. so they are hiding from a situation as david had said, they don't open envelopes, they will not take phone calls, but free help is out there, and one of the things that we need to do asa and one of the things that we need to do as a sector is tell people that help is at hand, so the money advice service has a debt advice service, you can check that out on our website, and that will give you access to hundreds of organisations who you can talk to face—to—face, online or over the phone. so the big message for us this week is, talk about your money, talk about your debt, you can get help. definitely. we offer telephone and e—mail gateways so that they can come into our offices, and it was available but there are different barriers in different communities. at enfield we have a very diverse community where maybe the first language isn't english and they find it difficult

when they open the letters to understand what it is. if they don't know that help is available for them to explain the content and the invitations, they will be more happy to come to us if they know that there is a service that they can go to. david, what do you say to those who would point out that you are an individual with free choice and you chose to sign up to credit cards and got yourself into this scenario?“ has taken a long time to get things under control. but there are people out there can help. the biggest problem ifound out there can help. the biggest problem i found was out there can help. the biggest problem ifound was how some out there can help. the biggest problem i found was how some of the companies approach you. if they were to approach people better, they would be able to get back in touch and deal with them. i am slowly getting back, hopefully should be debt free within12 months. in about 12 months. i have managed to clear most of my debts of. my score is

growing up. you mean your credit rating. yes, this month it has gone up rating. yes, this month it has gone up 181 points. it isjust about having the right people out there to help and support people. —— disappear people that have been in debt. —— to support people. disappear people that have been in debt. -- to support people. did you talk to family and friends about it? denly about it but they didn‘t change how i dealt with money. i myself got into those difficulties but i am getting back on my feet financially. thank you all, thank you for your good advice, as well. no problem. today‘s crunch daily in downing street. —— today is crunch daily in downing street. —— today is crunch day in downing street with theresa may

trying to convince her cabinet members that they should back the draft brexit agreement she and her negotiators have come up with. the work and pensions secretary esther mcvey was keeping things close to her chest when she spoke to reporters this morning. secretary. morning. can you back this deal? i‘m just going to read all the papers about it now. is it the brexit you were hoping for? bye now. will you be voting for it? see you later. some more messages, ann says there should be another referendum, i voted for leave, to save the nhs. we we re voted for leave, to save the nhs. we were promised more money for investment in the nhs, we were totally uninformed. served down the river. sam says i‘m 65 and ready to leave based on the little information, i made a big mistake. we need a second vote now that we know the ramifications for leaving.

i would now vote to remain. jonathan says, we‘re all being grossly disrespected by brussels, and it has become about new gizmos, not what changes what the public voted for. ubercorn by interference in the campaign and now it is like divorce lawyers extending an acrimonious divorce to make more money for themselves. this is about disgusting behaviours. another says, and much more must we suffer before somebody stops this nightmare? another viewer says i live in germany and watch this with a different perspective, it has been clear that the british don‘t care about the fracture brexit will have on the rest of europe. i hope the government collapses and beget another referendum. thank you for those. keep them coming in. there are so many. fake news. the phrase made popular by donald trump. and, while he may use it to discredit news he simply doesn‘t like, there is a more serious side to it. an enormous amount of news that‘s not true

is now being circulated around the internet, in an attempt to manipulate people into believing and feeling certain things. so, spotting the real from the fakes has never been more important, and where better to start learning than at school? our technology correspondent rory cellanjones has been helping to teach children, who spend their lives bombarded with information. here is a complex. ocon has given as some figures about where children are getting their news from, from social media, still from tv news as well but it is a big information they are getting. they trust us twice as much as they trust social media platforms. they understand the concept of fake news. just over half of the children questioned in this ofcom survey said when they see faq story that am not sure what to do about it, a third said they would go to their parents and discuss it with them, 40% said they would just ignore it, leave it there. we wanted

to go toa ignore it, leave it there. we wanted to go to a school and put them through an exercise and see how they got on, an exercise designed to highlight what happens when a new story breaks and what fake news can arrive in the newsroom, and how we deal with it. so this was an exercise, let‘s see how they did. where does your news come from? let‘s ask some south wales teenagers. social media sites such as twitter, instagram. normally i don‘t really bother with the news, but sometimes my mother will talk to me about it, or i will see it when i scroll past things on the internet. normally on the tv and social media, such as snapchat and twitter. i get a lot of my news from the tv, like itv news, bbc news. some of it comes from social media, mainly snapchat, and generally my mum tells me most things. in the morning sometimes i watch a bit of news, and i also talk to my grandad. but, can this class work out what is true and what is not? we are going to put them

through an exercise. you are a reporter in the bbc‘s social media unit. there‘s a big news story that‘s going to break, and you need to make lots of decisions. hey, you made it. welcome to the social media team. the scenario involves social media platforms crashing under what looks like a major cyber attack. the class of reporters have work to do. so, this whole exercise is about three things. speed, impact and accuracy. can they get the story, get it up there fast, but make sure that it is right? let‘s see how they do. someone has written in saying a crashed satellite is behind the problem, and they have a picture to prove it. but is this real? you think they are fake, don‘t you? i think it was fake. it looked straight from the start, a bit fake. check the picture

for artistic merit. which of those two? i believe we should ask a researcher to check the picture for time and location stamps. wait, it looks like they are fake! eventually it becomes clear, the photo is fake. a really good save there. this group isn‘t unusual in turning to social media for information. the media regulator ofcom asked 12—15—year—olds where they went for news. top came bbc one and bbc two. facebook was in second place. followed by itv. in fourth place came youtube, and another social media platform, instagram, was fifth. things are hotting up with the banks also affected by the cyber attack. there is a march on downing street. or is there? other news sources are running with it, what do you think? other social media sites like these have posted it, but maybe we should wait to get more detail on it. i think we should wait to get more

details of other people. i think we should post it. you think we should post it. but the others vote to be cautious, and they are right. there is no demo. so, how do the budding reporters think they are doing so far? i think we are doing really well. obviously we have got to get the balance between the speed and accuracy, but the most important thing is making sure it is really accurate. and their teacher says they are sometimes smarter than their parents. we do hear the student saying that they almost become the educators for their parents now in terms of social media, so their parents might have seen something that has popped up on a facebook account or something similar, and then they are almost relying on their children to tell them that that can't be trusted because it is not from a trusted source, or that hasn't been verified. very often now they are able to spot something is fake, which is really, really important. hello, i'm ruby. i guess you all know how i stopped the virus. so, basically, ifound

the erasmus code. the story is coming to a head. a teenage coder seems to have saved the day by stopping the cyber attack. but is she for real? are we going to ask her to back her story up, or are we going to say they don‘t believe her? i don't believe her. you don‘t believe her? why not? she doesn't look sure, she looks very shaky and like she doesn't want to be there. she looks like she doesn't want to kill the virus off. you think she is fake? it is ruby from earlier. i stopped the virus. this time, he is being too cynical. it turns out ruby is for real. let‘s get your reactions. she was genuine. yes, she didn't look genuine to me. tonight, after a day of chaos after the data virus caused

a meltdown of social media platforms, closing airports and preventing bank withdrawals, there is praise for a teenager who brought it all to an end. and in other news, do television newsreaders even listen to what they are saying? so, how does huw edwards think the class performed ? well done, you got a pretty good story there. you did miss one or two things along the way, but luckily, you had some help from colleagues to steer you in the right direction. i learned that you can't trust everything, you have to check everything, the date and where it was. i have learned that it is better to be safe than sorry, so i will definitely be more careful about which news is true, and which news is false. i've realised that you need to triple—check everything you read to make sure it is actually genuine. it is very easy to be fooled. definitely going to check everything that i see on the internet carefully now, and make sure that what i am

believing is true. it was hard to make some decisions on some of the fake news because it looked very true. the exercise is over. our young reporters are off 0 for well—deserved lunch break, confident they are better equipped to spot what is real and what is fake. they were really smart kids and they drill down into each example and mostly drill down into each example and m ostly got drill down into each example and mostly got to the truth. i had given them a little lecture beforehand about what fake news was. they kind of admitted that they did fall for staff. voters a re of admitted that they did fall for staff. voters are particularly powerful, some extraordinary photos that surface, around hurricanes and so on “— that surface, around hurricanes and so on —— photographs are particularly powerful, a shark swimming down the freeway in houston, texas, it turns out there have been seen in a shopping centre in kuwait, in another bit of fake news. there was a lot of fake news out there, and getting to grips with

it, they are, in some senses doing that faster than their parents, as you heard the teacher say, they are telling their parents to wise up when their parents say i saw this on facebook. there was some big work of media education to be done. and if people search bbc fake news, they can find out more. yes, they can do that, it is called bbc i reporter. the small town of barrow—in—furness in cumbria made news earlier this year after it emerged that 12 people had died there from suspected drug overdoses in just four months. it had one of the highest heroin related death rates for a number of years. one man, struggling with a 20—year—addiction, was bobby—joe strike. despite wanting to get clean, he seemed resigned to his fate. but there is some good news that i

was told you about in a moment. —— i will tell you about. you start getting a bit fidgety, and you know, i start picking normally. normally instantly i start picking spots that are not there, or i think i‘ve got them. what we‘ve got here is a £10 bag of heroin and a £10 bag of crack cocaine. that‘s the proper stuff. bobby strike, moments after injecting heroin and crack cocaine. it seems like one‘s too many and a thousand‘s never enough. his addiction meant he was injecting up to six times a day. i‘ve been using since i was 17 years old. i‘m now 39 years old nearly. when we met in april there had been an unprecedented 12 drug—related deaths in bobby‘s hometown of barrow—in—furness injust four months. sometimes i will pick myself until i bleed. the former dj seemed resigned to his own fate. you know the chances of you reaching

old age are very slim. oh, i know it‘s pretty limited, very limited, in fact. you‘re ok with that? well, yeah. some people think that they‘ve got insects underneath their skin. it‘s sad. it‘s very sad. all i can wish you is genuinely the very best of luck. thank you. and you‘re going to need it. thanks very much. thank you. you‘re welcome. well, that was then and this is now, and you look totally different. i feel completely different as well. i bet you do. clean for five months. yeah. four months. it was july. july 3rd i stopped using. i‘m now actually eight days with no methadone, no subutex, no substitute, not getting any sleep but i knew that was going to come. but, yeah, i feel great. do you? yeah. and what about mentally, the fact that you‘ve been four months without substitutes, heroin, whatever?

it‘s not been easy. it‘s certainly not been easy. but i certainly feel a lot stronger than i‘ve ever done. you know? i‘ve just found faith, really. that‘s been a massive part of myjourney. a massive part of myjourney. so, i‘ve found community, i found i‘ve got new family, i‘ve got my old family coming back into my life. in fact, i‘m going to see my mum today. i‘ve not seen her for seven years. really? so, yeah good things are happening. but you look physically different. your hair is different, your skin is bright, your eyes are bright. that‘s the holy spirit, though. that‘s not having heroin forfour months. yeah, just being high on life and just getting on with it and doing good deeds, really, just getting on with life. we saw in that clip you tell michael that drugs have been in your life since the age of 17. younger. really? heroin was 17. heroin was 17, ok. list for our audience the drugs that you have taken over decades. from 11 or 12 years old,

i started on cannabis. then i thought i was being clever, i did lsd in a science class. i thought i would do my own little science test. then it was amphetamine, heroin at 17, ecstasy, lsd, ketamine, dmt, gas, glue, just anything and everything. if it was going i‘d have it. prescription drugs. i‘ve never really been one for alcohol. but, yeah, if it got me away from my own head and my own reality then i was doing it. is that what led you down that path, do you think? trying to find a way of escaping. probably a load of self—pity when i was younger. i set fire to my school when i was five years old and ended up in a boarding school. i probably blamed my mum for that but it was me who set fire to the school, nobody else, you know? i was a difficult one. it‘s about growing up as well, isn‘t it? i don‘t know, it‘s just about growing up. what made the difference this time?

what was it? in the article just then it was saying that 12 people had died between december and april, it‘s now actually 15, the numbers have risen. seeing myself on the tv put things into perspective a little bit. so seeing you like that with michael? absolutely. it took me a couple of months after the article. it went out in april and it wasjuly i finally stopped. but i can see other people‘s faults, they can see mine, but i can‘t see my own. but seeing it on tv from that perspective, it hit home. what did you see that made you think i‘ve got to get off the heroin? that i was going to die, purely and simply that. it was either that or i was going to die. there is a saying, jails, institutions and death. i‘ve done the other two. i don‘t really want to do the third one. it was close. very close, in fact. thank you for your many messages

about the brexit withdrawal agreement. i have been asking, does it sound like what you voted for when you voted in the eu referendum? james curle said, do these political leaders think that we will take the betrayal lying down? the danger to democracy is real, we, the people, will ever trust them again. i see real danger to the country, the possibility of a revolution is likely, as a law—abiding person i‘ve never likely, as a law—abiding person i‘ve never broken the law in my life says james, but i willjoin those willing to fight for our democracy. it is time for the cabinet to show moral courage or lose the moraljust —— the trust of the people. let‘s talk to another of our brexit bunch — david hoey, runs a small business who travels regularly between belfast and london. he voted for brexit and was a coordinator for leave.eu. how are you? good morning. i'm going to put this e—mail to you, from

john, he says he‘s not that the conservative fan but he has respect for the prime minister for the conservative fan but he has respect for the prime ministerfor the role that she has stuck to her guns, have i missed something? everyone on your show talks as if they have read the 500 page draft, and they haven‘t. do you have respect for the prime minister in what she‘s trying to do? imight minister in what she‘s trying to do? i might have if i actually understood what she‘d been trying to do. the room also the information that we have at the present time doesn‘t sound like anything that was in the party manifesto in 2017 and doesn‘t sound like anything close to the lancaster house speech. we have to wait and see the final details but it doesn‘t sound like she has delivered what she was promising, herself, she was setting out to deliver. maybe she overpromised like a number of people did. we have to wait and see. i don‘t think it is about overpromising. it is about

simply not delivering on the premises she made. you cannot overpromised unless you have a sense of what you have already. she just hasn‘t negotiated terribly well, in business terms, it has been pretty appalling, watching the negotiations going on. what would be a message to the cabinet as they get together at upn this afternoon in downing street? look at your conscience and what was promised in 2017, what is promised at lancaster house and make a judgment on whether that has ashley been delivered. do you think it‘s possible there could be no brexit at all? i don't know, i have another conference... if you have to 90, another conference... if you have to go, it is fine, honestly. basically i don‘t know where we‘re headed at the present time. i don‘t think the reason may knows where she is

headed. thanks, david. david, joining us from a conference. neil says the population is assuming the worst, we have yet to hear the fa cts , worst, we have yet to hear the facts, and i am sure that they would be great. thank you for your company, bbc newsroom live is next. we‘re back tomorrow. goodbye. company, bbc newsroom live is next. we're back tomorrow. goodbye. good morning. some of us woke up to beautiful skies this morning but further north, that is more in the way of outbreaks of rain, abbot and windy start. you can see on the radar that rain pushing gradually north. it will ease as we move through the afternoon. bryan price for much of england and wales were some good spells of sunshine. some sunshine —— dry and bright for much of england and wales. temperatures generally above average for the time of year, in the mid teens. as we move of year, in the mid teens. as we move through tonight, or in a way of

rain, pushing into western parts, of northern ireland and north—west scotland. cloudier in the north with temperatures holding on to double figures. some mist and fog to start the day, particularly for central and eastern england, oh though it‘ll be hard to pinpoint exactly where it is. bright intervals developing but that mist and fog could be stubborn to clear. some outbreaks of rain in the north and west, and, again, temperatures will be mild. i‘m annita mcveigh in westminster, where theresa may will today try to secure cabinet backing for a brexit withdrawal agreement. the prime minister will try to head

off any threat of resignations, telling ministers the deal she‘s secured from brussels is the best the uk can get. a deal is going to look pretty much like this one seems to look like. it isn‘t going to be dramatically different from that. therefore, they‘ve got to keep that big picture in mind and they have to stick together, above all. this morning, ministers are still going into number 10 for one to one briefings on the details but there‘s opposition across the commons. we haven‘t been briefed on the text, we are really working on what the headlines that have been leaked or indicating, and if it is the case then i think there is serious trouble