tv BBC News at Six BBC News November 15, 2018 6:00pm-6:31pm GMT
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tonight at six, in the past half—hour, theresa may has stressed her belief in the brexit agreement. i believe that this is a deal which does deliver that, which is in the national interest, and am i going to see this through? yes. it comes after a morning of ministerial resignations, the brexit secretary, dominic raab, who negotiated the deal with brussels, quit the cabinet. her own leadership position is also under threat, leading brexiteerjacob rees—mogg submits a letter of no confidence in the prime minister and says he expects there will be a vote on herfuture by her own mps. good evening from westminster on
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what has been the most dramatic of days as the prime minister fights for herfuture. in days as the prime minister fights for her future. in the last few moments, theresa may has vowed to fight on for a draft brexit agreement, insisting it delivers what people voted for and is in the national interest. today began with a raft of resignations as four ministers in total, two cabinet ministers in total, two cabinet ministers among them, the brexit secretary himself dominic raab, followed within the hour by work and pensions secretary esther mcvey. theresa may then spent three hours on veith defending the draft brexit withdrawal agreement with the eu amid criticism from mps on all sides. and then more drama outside as the leading eurosceptic mpjacob rees—mogg announced he was submitting a letter of no confidence in the prime minister's leadership, saying a brexit deal had turned out to be worse than anticipated. let's listen to what theresa may had to say just a few minutes ago. serving in high office is an honour and privilege.
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it is also a heavy responsibility. that is true at any time, but especially when the stakes are so high. negotiating the uk's withdrawal from the eu after a0 yea rs withdrawal from the eu after a0 years and building from the ground up years and building from the ground upa new years and building from the ground up a new and enduring relationship for the good of our children and grandchildren is a matter of the highest consequence. it touches almost every area of our national life, a whole economy and virtually everyjob. the livelihoods of our fellow citizens, our integrity as a united kingdom four nations, our safety and security, all of these are at stake. my approach throughout has been to put the national interest first. not a partisan interest, and certainly not my own political interest. i do notjudge harshly those of my colleagues who
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seek to do the same but to reach a different conclusion. they must do what they believe to be right, just as i do. i am sorry that they have chosen to leave the government, and i thank them for their service. but i believe with every fibre of my being that because i have set out is the right one for our country and all our people. from the very beginning, i have known what i wanted to deliver for the british people, to honour their vote in the referendum. full control of our borders by bringing an end to the free movement of people, once and for all. full control of our money, so we decide ourselves how to spend it on priorities like our nhs. full control of our laws, by ending the jurisdiction of the european court ofjustice in the united kingdom. getting us out of the common
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agricultural policy and common fisheries policy for good. that is exactly what this agreement will deliver — free movement ended, vast annual payments stopped, the jurisdiction of the ec] over, out of the cap, out of the cfp. this is a brexit that delivers on the priorities of the british people. in achieving these objectives, i'm also determined to protect the things that are important to us, protect the hundreds of thousands of manufacturing jobs that put food on the tables of working families right across the uk. those jobs rely on cross—border trade in goods, with parts flowing easily in and of the uk, allowing for integrated supply chains. this agreement protects that, protects the close security co—operation that keeps us safe, this agreement does that. protect the integrity of the united kingdom and the peace settlement in northern ireland by leaving the united kingdom and having no hard border. this agreement does that as well. yes, difficult and sometimes
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uncomfortable decisions have had to be made, i understand fully that there are some who are unhappy with those compromises. yes, difficult and sometimes uncomfortable decisions have had to be made, i understand fully that there are some who are unhappy with those compromises. but this deal delivers what people voted for and it is in the national interest, and we can only secure it if we unite behind the agreement reached in cabinet yesterday. if we do not move forward with that agreement, nobody can know for sure the consequences that will follow. it would be to take a path of deep and grave uncertainty when the british people just want us to get on with it. they are looking to the conservative party to deliver, to deliver a brexit that works for the whole uk, a strong economy that keeps jobs safe and wages rising, and first—class public services we can rely on, an nhs there for all of us, great schools for every child, and the homes that families need.
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that is what the people we serve expect, and that is what we owe it to them to deliver. so that was the prime minister speaking just a few minutes ago, a very difficult day for her in the house of commons as she answered questions after three hours on their feet, going to that press conference in determined mood, you would suggest, from what she was saying. we will talk more about that in a second. penny mordaunt, the secretary of state for international to be in, has gone into downing street, she is one of those nine, ten, 11 cabinet secretaries who had difficulties with this deal, and she is one of those three, really, that we expected might resign today. former brexit secretary dominic raab has been speaking to laura kuenssberg, he was the first to go this morning, talking about his
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decision to speak down, this is what he had to say. i have been fighting for a good brexit deal, but the terms proposed to the cabinet had two major and fatal flaws. the first is that the terms being offered by the eu threaten the united kingdom, and the second is that they would lead to an indefinite if not permanent situation where we are locked into a regime with no say over rules and laws being applied and no exit mechanism. i think that would be devastating for public trust in democracy. the prime minister says thatis democracy. the prime minister says that is not the case, that the deal has managed to avoid both of those things. we have different views, and in fairness she needs a brexit secretary that will pursue the deal that she wants to put to the country with conviction. i don't feel i can do that in good conscience, but i hold her in high esteem, i think she should continue, but i think we need to change the course of brexit. dominic raab, who resigned earlier, the second brexit secretary to go. that post is still
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open, some speculation that michael gove had been approached. bob neill isa gove had been approached. bob neill is a conservative mp, and kate hoey, labour, bob neill, you arts a supporter of the prime minister, do you think she would fight if there was a leadership contest, stay on if she won by one vote?|j was a leadership contest, stay on if she won by one vote? i think she made that very clear at the press conference less than half an hour or so conference less than half an hour or so ago, she has got enormous stamina and determination, she is absolutely convinced that this is the best deal, the best way forward to get the balance that we need to deliver brexit in a way that does not harm the economic interests of the country. she will stick to her guns, i'm certain. she said britain would leave on marta 29th, it is not certain she can get that through the house of commons, so does that increase the risk of no—deal?m does, andi increase the risk of no—deal?m does, and i think that would be a dangerous thing for this country, and that is why i set myself in the
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commons today that anyone who thinks of voting against the deal should think very carefully about the damage that no—deal would have two jobs, businesses and people's livelihoods. that would be hung around the necks of any government in power at the time, we really ought to avoid it, that is why my collea g u es ought to avoid it, that is why my colleagues on the conservative side need to get behind her, not undermine it. kate hoey, it is not certain that her own body will let her put that to the vote, what would you say about the deal on the table? i think it is not acceptable, and i don't really think when people listen or read over the next few days these 585 pages, they think it is what they voted for. they wanted to leave, they didn't vote to stay in everett, be out a little bit, have a bit of the eu. what we have seen today, particularly to do with the northern ireland debate and the whole way that we could end up that they could actually be very different from the rest of the united kingdom, ifeelvery
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different from the rest of the united kingdom, i feel very strongly about that, but labour generally, i thinkjeremy corbyn made his position clear today. at the moment, there is no way labour is going to be supporting that deal, because they feel that it doesn't meet all they feel that it doesn't meet all the demands that we make. they feel that it doesn't meet all the demands that we makem they feel that it doesn't meet all the demands that we make. if i had said to you 90 months ago that the uk was going to leave the common agricultural policy, the common fisheries policy, would get back its own laws and decisions over its own laws, which she says will happen after the withdrawal agreement, as pa rt after the withdrawal agreement, as part of the trade agreement, payments to the eu will stop, you would have ripped my arm off was a brexiteer! that is what we should be getting, but we're not actually getting, but we're not actually getting that, you know? the reality is that we will still be paying for much longer than we need to. the whole problem was that we went to the eu almost cap in hand, saying, what will you give us? we are a confident country, the fifth biggest economy, we can handle things without having the eu tell us what
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to do and what not to do, and to still end up with the ec] ruling over our decisions is not sensible, and yes, we have got the end of free movement, which was obviously very important, but it is all hedged around with ifs and buts, and frankly i don't trust the eu, because the eu commission will do anything they can to make this as difficult as possible. the concerns that people have any house of commons, and this is the withdrawal agreement, we have distressed that, not the final deal, what is the incentive for the eu to offer something that britain wanted once the money has been paid and the maximum moment of leverage has gone? 0nce maximum moment of leverage has gone? once you look at the very considerable detail in this draft withdrawal agreement, it sets out recognition by both sides, and in thejoint recognition by both sides, and in the joint political statement as well, that there are disadvantages ina well, that there are disadvantages in a disorderly withdrawal from the eu for both of them, that is clear in london, where a huge chunk of the financial services for the whole of the eu sits. it is not in any one's
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interest to have that. but kate misses the key point, a lot of critics to — it is because this is not the final deal that it is daft to blow up the whole process for the sake of the irish backstop, which is no more than an insurance policy. come on! you don't criticise someone for taking out insurance on a house, you are dancing on the head of a needle and putting jobs at risk. the problem with the backstop is that the irish government are delighted with it, it is giving them what they have been asking for a long time, there is a lot of other stuff about northern ireland that people have not read yet, about having joint authorities on things we have always opposed, and now this is all going through as part of this, because the eu and the irish government have been working very hard... we need to get real and not dance on theoretical points. the prime minister was asked twice to give reasons why a wto deal would not... every respectable economist knows
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that it would be a huge kick to the economy. i want to get your thoughts on the leadership challenge, let's listen to jacob rees—mogg who has put a letter forward to the 1922 committee, this is what he said outside the house of commons. what we need isa the house of commons. what we need is a leader who will say to the european union, it is impossible to divide the united kingdom, it is impossible to agree to a situation where we have a perpetual customs union, it is impossible to pay £39 billion of taxpayers' money for a few promises which is meant to be 39 billion for and implementation of a deal, and it is impossible for us to allow the continuing jurisdiction of the european court ofjustice. the problem is that the negotiations have given away on all the key points. jacob rees-mogg says the problem is that it has given away,
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as he was saying before, the money and all the leverage at the outset, any withdrawal agreement. the problem that the brexiteer never a nswer problem that the brexiteer never answer is this — just as the prime minister khan split northern ireland from the union, so an irish taoiseach could never put a border on the island of ireland, he has a veto and he is hanging that over the negotiations. everyone, the eu, the irish republic, the british government, no—one will put up a border, we only had a hard border when there was ira terrorism, there is no reason to have a hard border. the irish republic as different excise duties and vat, customs are involved, quite often stopping people because they believe they have been smuggling. this is possible, we had experts at the northern ireland select committee who made it clear that really expert customs people have been involved for a long time, this can be done with goodwill, this could be working, and it was until leo varadkar stopped his officials meeting with british officials. this isa
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meeting with british officials. this is a rather unseemly blame game with the irish republic that helps nobody, we need to cooperate with ireland going forward, they have obligations on being the external frontier of the eu. we must never be complacent about the importance of the good friday agreement at the peaceit the good friday agreement at the peace it has brought to ireland, and that involves legal obligations not to create a hard border. the belfast agreement said nothing about borders, hardly anything about the eu... because it was predicated on us eu... because it was predicated on us being in the eu. desperate complacency by the brexiteers about ireland. let me ask you about the vote, ifs graham brady gets the a8 letters he needs and there is vote next week, let's say, and it is hypothetical, that she wins, but 100 vote against because it will be a referendum on her deal, can she go one? she has made it clear that she will, and i am certain that she will, and i am certain that she will, and i am certain that she will, and if they were so foolish as to do that, the rules mean there can
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be no further challenge for a year, so be no further challenge for a year, soi be no further challenge for a year, so i would be tempted to say bring it on. do you know where it is tonight? i don't know, graham brady will not tell anyone without going through the due process, but people like jacob ought to remember that the only person they are helping in this isjeremy corbyn. if you undermine to me, it helps this isjeremy corbyn. if you undermine to me, it helszeremy corbyn and his agenda. undermine to me, it helszeremy corbyn and his agendalj undermine to me, it helszeremy corbyn and his agenda. i don't have to get involved in their elections! thank you both very much indeed. live now to brussels, ros atkins is there for us, what will they be making up what is going on at westminster in an extraordinary day? well, christian, they are not saying very much publicly, so we can't be 100% sure what they are making of this, but i think we can make an educated guess. this is not the scenario that the european union would be hoping for, it has invested a huge amount of time and effort and political capital into negotiating this deal with theresa may, it has even set a date for a summit at the
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end of the month on the 25th, where they want this deal to be signed off, and all day long we have heard from big hitters across the eu, the president of the european council, the president of the european parliament, angela merkel, michel barnier, the negotiator, all saying that this deal is as good as it is going to get, and they hope the uk will go for it. and now they have to sit back and watch the drama playing out in westminster. let's gets two european perspectives, and joined by the secretary—general of the european movement international, which represents pro—organisations across europe, and also by a german business reporter, good to see you both. this is not what the european union wants at all, is it? no, they we re union wants at all, is it? no, they were hoping for a quick decision, but it has been going on for a while, i have talked to so many senior officials who say that britain is not really engaging with
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us, so it is a repetition of what we have seen in the past two years. there is bewildered and in brussels about what goes on in london, like was just about what goes on in london, like wasjust said, it about what goes on in london, like was just said, it was to be expected, but the dramatic way everything is unravelling in london at the moment has left people speechless. it is just a reminder that there is no better deal than eu membership, in fact, that there is no better deal than eu membership, infact, the that there is no better deal than eu membership, in fact, the divisions that we see in london isjust membership, in fact, the divisions that we see in london is just a way of underlining that fact. we are hearing from critics theresa may that she could have got more from the european union, that she didn't have to accept a deal on these terms, would that be a realistic proposition if someone else was leading the uk? no way, this is as good as it gets, from the beginning the eu was in a stronger position because the eu knew a no—deal situation was very bad but more so
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for the situation was very bad but more so forthe uk, so they situation was very bad but more so for the uk, so they have not barged at all, there is a lot of unity among the 27 member states, there is no way anyone else would have got a better deal. wouldn't it be better to show a better way of avoiding no—deal than crashing into it at the end of march? there are things that are more important for the eu, obviously there will be losers on both sides, it was always a lose lose scenario, but the fundamental principle upon which the eu is based, open markets, the rule of law, they are far more important, and the eu has gone as far as possible to accommodate uk, andi far as possible to accommodate uk, and i agree that it has been quite flexible and generous in the final deal. people who support brexit, silke, would say germany has many businesses which do millions of euros of businesses with the uk,
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they will want a deal whatever. euros of businesses with the uk, they will want a deal whateverlj think that was a misconception prevailing in the uk from the beginning, that there would be the possibility of a fudge, and obviously a no—deal scenario is not great for the german car industry, but there are 27 member states, and i don't think that angela merkel is willing to sacrifice the unity of the eu or the single market for the sake of the german car industry. both of you, in different ways, cover the european union, its strengths and weaknesses — brexit was seen as strengths and weaknesses — brexit was seen as a terrible blow to the organisation, but do you think the problem is that are playing out with brexit in some ways strengthening the hand of people likejean—claude juncker, who advised all members not to consider leaving? it has certainly demonstrated the value of being part of the eu. what has been going on in the uk for the past two yea rs, going on in the uk for the past two years, the economic cost, the social unrest, the political unravelling that has taken place, that has
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demonstrated how difficult it is to be outside, and it has pushed member states together in a sense of unity that they did not have after a series of crises over the last ten years... and they do not have it on issues like immigration, do they? certainly, but it has underlined the fa ct certainly, but it has underlined the fact that when it comes to the fundamental values, they are united. angela merkel spoke earlier, silke, saying this is the deal all we are looking at no—deal, might she compromise if she needs to?|j looking at no—deal, might she compromise if she needs to? i doubt it. why? she has got no incentive. 0k, she could try to avoid a hard brexit, but why should she compromise? i think she is expecting the uk to move. silke, petros, thank you very much indeed. christian, while you cover thejohn in westminster, the eu is preparing for a summit on sunday week, all preparing for when the leaders of the 27 come to town to brussels on
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the 27 come to town to brussels on the 25th of november two, in theory, meet with theresa may and sign off this withdrawal agreement. they are now in the strange situation of having, months into this negotiation, having signed off, and now they have to wait to see if the uk will show up for that in a position where it can actually say yes. there will have to watch patiently, because it is possible there will be a leadership contest here at the house of commons, ros, thank you, not a lot they can do about that, apart from the gone and plan for the summit. rob wotton, goodness me, what a day, do you remember when dominic raab resigned?! it is interesting you put it that way, i was going to go further back, there are not many good things about getting older, but one of them is perspective, and i bumped into an old colleague, 30 yea rs bumped into an old colleague, 30 years ago we covered the maastricht treaty which brought about the european union, and i said to him,
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how do you think this compares to mackie said this was local difficulty, this is national implosion. that is a strong phrase, but i do think what we are seeing is a profound national crisis. up until now it had been sort of under the radar, backwards and forwards, largely private, but because now there is paper, words on paper, a treaty, a plan, a shade for withdrawal, that has now brought this simmering row that has been there for two and a half years out into the absolute explosion that we are seeing today. it is a crisis, because if we think hypothetically about what might happen over the course of the next week, let's says she wins the next vote, and we just heard from bob neill that she will stay on even if she wins by one vote, she stays, she parted to the vote, she stays, she parted to the vote but those of the vote, where do we go then? exactly, that is why i call this a profound national crisis, because the stakes are high,
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written's place in the world, but because there is no agreement among the senior politicians about exactly what you should do, and it seems to me the real problem is, whether it was theresa may leading the conservative party or anybody else, or perhaps any deals in this parliament, if you're not going to get theresa may's deal through parliament, what steel does? i mean, i ask you, christian, the politicians you have been speaking to, what kind of deal, what kind of future relationship can get the support of the 650 people in their plans? that is why we are in a profound crisis. michel barnier says they have exhausted all remove the -- -- all they have exhausted all remove the —— —— all room for manoeuvre. this is what ken clarke said about a potential vote of no—confidence. is what ken clarke said about a potential vote of no-confidence. of all the stupid things to introduce into the present crisis, to have a conservative leadership election going on ever six weeks, with blood running in the gutters, a whole lot of silly arguments about europe
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between the contenders, i can't think of anything more useless to engage in. i think if they get in the necessary number of letters, which they keep threatening to, for six months, they put the letters in, i think she will win the vote of confidence. ken clarke talking earlier. let's show you the picture at downing street at the moment, we can show you the live shot, because we are expecting penny mordaunt to come out that door any time soon, or maybe she will go through the back if she has resigned, one of the three we are keeping an eye on. some activity there, but we will go back if we see penny mordaunt in the next few minutes. instead, ian blackford, leader of the snp in the house of commons, nice to see you. i heard your question to theresa during the three—hour debate, you were a bit miffed, more than miffed that there is no mention of scotland in the document. almost a 600 page document, scotland is not mentioned
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once, northern ireland is mentioned 100 times, gibraltar, cyprus, the isle of man, but we are disregarded. i think it does say something about the attitude of the government to our devolved institution, the scottish government went given any side of the agreement until after the cabinet meeting, the prime minister has previously said this is supposed to be a partnership of equals. what we have tried to say all the way through this is we want to make sure we can protect scotland's interest, stay in the singles market and the customs union, but on the basis that we wish to compromise, but it is difficult when you are met with a government that has closed years to where we are at. i have sympathy for the prime minister, she has brought a deal forward today that seems to satisfy nobody, the cabinet is divided, she talks about taking back control budget cannot even control her own cabinet. their response to your question was this, scotland is pa rt your question was this, scotland is part of the united kingdom, we are leaving the eu as one united kingdom, no mention of wales either. she was saying that northern ireland
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isa she was saying that northern ireland is a specific issue because, as you well know, it is the only part of the uk that shares a border with the eu. i think the important part is that there is a differentiation for northern ireland, and i welcome that, we all understand the importance of the good friday agreement, we have had relative peace in ireland for the last 20 yea rs, peace in ireland for the last 20 yea rs , we peace in ireland for the last 20 yea rs, we have peace in ireland for the last 20 years, we have a responsibility to make sure that is maintained, and thatis make sure that is maintained, and that is fantastic, but the point we have made from day one, if the uk wa nts to have made from day one, if the uk wants to leave the single market and the customs union, and i don't think it should, there is no reason we cannot have differentiation for scotland, and if it is good enough for northern ireland, it should be good enough for scotland. i need to reflect on the fact that 62% of the people of scotland voted to remain. 0ur rights, our views, people of scotland voted to remain. 0ur rights, ourviews, ourwishes people of scotland voted to remain. 0ur rights, our views, our wishes as european citizens, as well as scottish and uk citizens, should be respected. nicola sturgeon picked up ona respected. nicola sturgeon picked up on a point that northern ireland will have a heavier, biggerfoot on a point that northern ireland will have a heavier, bigger foot in the single market as part of the backstop arrangement, if there is no deal after december 2020. why would
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that cause scotland problems, if they are partly in the single market? because it enhances the attractions of northern ireland as a destination for investment. you would lose investors to northern ireland? there is a great attraction for northern ireland, and i want to make sure scotland is a destination as well. i don't want to leave the eu,i as well. i don't want to leave the eu, iam as well. i don't want to leave the eu, i am quite clear about that, but if the uk is leaving and we are part of that, i want at the very least for us to remain in the single market and the customs union, and free movement, we have demographic challenges, and we have been enriched by migration into scotland, andi enriched by migration into scotland, and i want to make sure our industries, agricultural industries, tourism, the health service and so on, have the opportunity to attract people. our view is we have a devolved parliament in edinburgh, we need to make sure we can speak up and affect this debate and get things that the people of scotland want. on the point, i will be asking eve ryo ne want. on the point, i will be asking everyone who comes here denied,
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eve ryo ne everyone who comes here denied, everyone on the opposite benches safe there is no majority for no—deal, we need a second referendum — how do you get there? nobody satisfactorily answers that question. the prime minister has been explicit there will not be a second vote. let me help on that one, because i have written to the prime minister, together with jeremy corbyn, with vince cable and with plaid cymru, and i ask that the normal procedures take place, which would be that we have the opportunity to amend what ever the government brings forward ahead of that meaningful vote, and one of the things i want to see is a proposition for the uk to stay... so an amendment to whatever was put before you, a vote on the amendment, trying to get 20 tory mps...? we know that being out of the customs union is going to costjobs. i don't think that is worth paying. i want to say to mps of every party to think very carefully about where
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we are at and i do believe that there can be a majority in the house of commons and stay in the single market. that has to be the series of amendments. i don't think parliament can support this deal and i think we have to look at the option of the people's vote. this prime minister i’u ns people's vote. this prime minister runs a minority administration. parliament has to take control of this process. the prime minister can't dictate what she thinks is right for the people of these islands. very good to talk to you. thank you very much for coming to talk to us. you are right, she does run a minority government because the dup has walked away. the deputy of the dup has had to they want a prime minister that believes in brexit, a prime minister, he said, that matches actions with words. before
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