tv The Tech Giants BBC News November 17, 2018 12:30am-1:01am GMT
12:30 am
to shore up her government, following widespread opposition to her brexit deal with the eu. mrs may has won the support of some of her key brexiteer ministers, but she has had to defend herself against further calls from critics to stand down. donald trump says he has personally finished writing his answers to questions posed by the mueller inquiry into russian interference in the last us presidential election. mr trump said he had not yet submitted the responses because he'd been very busy. he again described the investigation as a witch hunt. the white house has agreed temporarily to allow the cnn journalist, jim acosta, back into press briefings, after a court ordered it to do so. the journalist's pass was revoked last week after he argued with president trump during a news conference. levels of poverty in some of britain's towns and cities are a disgrace according to a united nations survey. a un envoy concluded that government policies have inflicted unnecessary
12:31 am
misery and suffering on millions, including many people in work, despite the uk being the world's fifth richest economy. and the united nations warns it will get worse after brexit, as our social affairs correspondent michael buchanan reports. i am watching poverty cripple my mother. i lost my house, and it's a lonely world out here. to go to school, go to college and spend all your money on university... it doesn't work like that anymore. often ignored, but for the past ten days, the poor have been listened to. why are so many people crumbling under their burden and losing their fight? here injaywick in essex, england's poorest area, the united nations came to hear what it's like to have little. if i was to die now, no—one would miss me. i'm useless, i can't provide for my family. i'm just going to end it. the meeting was one of nine held across the uk by the un's special investigator on extreme poverty.
12:32 am
his conclusion — the government is in denial about the problem. what i saw is a lot of misery. a lot of people who feel that the system is failing them. a lot of people who feel that the system is really there just to punish them. philip alston said he found staggering levels of child poverty, and a harsh welfare regime that tells the poor... that people who need benefits should be reminded constantly that they are lucky to get anything, that nothing will be made easy. he called for immediate changes to universal credit, the main welfare reform, and deplored the disproportionate effect on women of benefit changes. if you had got a group of misogynists in a room and said, "guys, how can we make this system work for men and not for women?" they wouldn't have come up with too many other ideas
12:33 am
than what's already in place. as you'd expect, ministers have hit back, saying they completely disagree with the un's analysis. they say that household incomes have never been higher, there are one million fewer people living in absolute poverty than in 2010, and that they're committed to providing the right support to those in need. the un's criticisms won't quickly improve the lot of the poor, in jaywick or elsewhere, but they may focus more minds on the daily struggles of millions of britons. michael buchanan, bbc news. now on bbc news, the tech giants: beyond fake news. ladies and gentlemen, welcome here to our panel discussion. welcome to every one watching around the world. and to our panellists who have joined us. the star using them. we have management grew from facebook,
12:34 am
i removed from google, and the jag gardai from twitter. thank you all of you for being here. and i am going to start by asking all of them for 30 seconds each your analysis of the seriousness of the fake news problem. anish, what you start? thank you. we think it is a nexus and shall throw to the platform. we ta ke and shall throw to the platform. we take this problem very seriously for two reasons. the first is that as a social media platform we're focused oi'i social media platform we're focused on the quality of interaction and misinformation in baxter. as a social media platform you need to do social media platform you need to do social good, and misinformation is the exact opposite of that. we think it isa the exact opposite of that. we think it is a serious one. that google, we think it is an incredibly important problem, and that google has a responsibility to be part of the solution. and people come to google, they expect answers. we hope that we can through technology and partnerships were journalists and others provide high—quality authoritative content when they come to us for those questions. thank you
12:35 am
matthew. twitter‘s mission is to serve the public conversation. people come to twitter to find out what's going on and did tell the world what's happening. if we can't bea world what's happening. if we can't be a source of quality information for them they will stop using the product. so it is incredibly important for us as a platform, but also for us to recognise the impact of this type of news out the world. manish, all of you part of the problem or part of the solution? mark zuckerberg admitted to congress he was slow to respond to fake news. has also been slow to respond to the lynchings in india? is an interesting way of looking at it. the first i would like to say as a social media platform we have always been upfront with the mistakes that we have made. we go back to 2016 will pretty much obviously — we committed certain mistakes as forest elections are concerned. we learnt from what we have undergone. i think you and your question, as a platform, facebook is incredibly interested in actually being part of
12:36 am
the solution. it is incredibly interested in making sure that the quality of content on the platform is ofa quality of content on the platform is of a very high nature. it is incredibly interested in finding information. specific to those lynchings, i haven't seen mark zuckerberg give television interview about them. i can't speak for mark zuckerberg. i can tell you that is incredibly and intensely spacer she is incredibly and intensely interested in india. he has created a larger routines that are looking at this issue. he is also looking at another of other areas, including creating a war room in washington, dc looking at elections. in terms of misinformation, there are another thing to me to talk about ever get the opportunity. to specifically, though, around whatsapp, and the lynchings, and all the trouble is we have seen in india, the indian government has said that whatsapp can't be bystander but this it that responsibility. are they right? before and so the question, let me pretested. i worked on facebook and
12:37 am
no more than happy to answer questions on behalf of whatsapp, but this is my personal interpretation of what i have seen. . facebook is whatsapp, so... again, these are two organisations that are somewhat internally. i am a facebook representative, not necessarily whatsapp. i'm happy to talk about this. it is learning process for all of us. there is an incredible amount of us. there is an incredible amount of which opens on the platform, an incredible amount of knowledge on the platform. as forest whatsapp is concerned to think they're making some changes in india in terms of restructuring operations in terms of looking at the quality of information that is going. so we have done a lot of things which are trained to combat the nature of the problem. we believe this is a serious wrong. what is a serious wrong. what's a quick show of hands, how many people use whatsapp on, say, a daily basis? so that'sjust about everybody here. how many people he think it's a problem, fake
12:38 am
news on social media? so at, again, virtually the whole of the audience. i reincarnated as google, you also pa rt i reincarnated as google, you also part of the problem? you a new tube, so part of the problem? you a new tube, so much video there, is out there, i do platform. so you are speaking about you tube ? do platform. so you are speaking about you tube? yes. i would say that youtube is a unique entity. as you saw early today there was a panellist on youtube today, a youtube who was to debunk news and information. i think that what is interesting about you tube is that when it was launched most of the users were really focused on life style users were really focused on lifestyle and entertainment, and i think that we have learnt that more and more people are coming, particularly in a plastic india, for news and news and information, informational content. as a result, we have been learning and adjusting and leveraging what we have found from google. are you learning, you adjusting, fast enough, in terms of youtube? because you look at something like the florida shooting,
12:39 am
and you get ill people are saying it isa and you get ill people are saying it is a government put up job, and you get ill people are saying it is a government put upjob, and the gonzalez, the student who became famous after the school shooting video of her doctored tearing up the us constitution, which is actually tearing upa us constitution, which is actually tearing up a target? all that is on a platform. i would say that we have actually learned from the specific incidence and actually, earlier this month, about a month ago, earlier this year, we announced that we would implement changes to youtube to give users more context. it is or isa to give users more context. it is or is a balance between free speech and given people an opportunity and a voice and ensuring that it is a safe platform for people to use, that they are not subject to bullying. we have done can community gardens for that. and also providing more opportunities in britain new situations that this is going to youtube or macro content that they will actually get news from authoritative sources, including from text, which often moves faster than video. didak, in terms of
12:40 am
twitter, us elections, facebook, twitter, us elections, facebook, twitter, they were the playground for fake news. what twitter, they were the playground forfake news. what are twitter, they were the playground for fake news. what are you twitter, they were the playground forfake news. what are you doing to actually combat fake accounts, because often what starts as fake on twitter then cascades down in india across all social media platforms. yes. we have learnt a lot of lessons, i was a come from the 2016 your selection in particular. and how the platform was manipulated by certain parties to spread certain types of information. so it actually sow types of information. so it actually sow division within the population. we've ta ken sow division within the population. we've taken a tell of those learnings and put them into work very specific last week for the midterms. what we learn were behavioural patterns they were able to identify when people are either using malicious automation or human automated co—ordination to amplify trends to insert fake news. these are things that we are learning very
12:41 am
fa st are things that we are learning very fast and adjusting so that fake accounts don't have accountability. with fake accounts, we have gone through eliminating millions and millions of those accounts, and you'll notice that those recounts reappear but our technology is getting better at identifying the when a comeback. and we have the a lot of steps removed his accounts for recounts. here, the level of trolling is something else, off the scale, in india. rape threats, death threats, it is always impossible to get the stuff taken down. why? it shouldn't be. 0ut one priority at twitter is to focus on the health of the public conversation, and that is not healthy. it is not cover you except that is a major failure? absolutely. we do have reporting structures in place of a kind of content to be reported, but the problem is is that the burden of reporting is on the people that are
12:42 am
suffering from harassment, and it is out suffering from harassment, and it is our responsibility and gold to be more proactive in the goal so the builder had to return the content to us. builder had to return the content to us. people reported and the complaint that nothing happens and it stays there, and that is their father that a problem. i hear that so father that a problem. i hear that so often as they interview people to people about different times where they feel that they are targeted. manish, coming back to fake news and facebook, why is it proving so difficult for facebook, because the un savaged facebook about the way it was used to whip up ahead against the reach of muslims. in sri lanka, one of the presidential staff recently attacked muslims, saying the seeds are ours, the wind is facebook. i would like as they question in two ways. one is that it essentially the nature of misinformation and social media. what we are finding a period of time is combating against misinformation is combating against misinformation is not just a is combating against misinformation is notjust a platform problem. it is notjust a platform problem. it is notjust a platform problem. it is not just facebook is notjust a platform problem. it is notjust facebook that is involved in this, but a societal
12:43 am
issue. i think the response of facebook is not just issue. i think the response of facebook is notjust been to learn from their mistakes that they have makeover to tackle that on three different fronts. the first one is essentially looking at the product and trade to combat misinformation. the second is through education. the third is essentially looking at some of these trends and how we get better at them. but you except that you have to get a lot better, because i spoke there about the rohingya crisis. mark zuckerberg spoke about getting more burmese speaking experts. we still know how many have been hired. that is your problem across the board. you need any more humans, the new? and much better algorithms. we do. and it is a continuous process of learning. 0n that, we are increasing the number of people looking at this problem, and almost doubling the number. as and almost doubling the number. as an acknowledgement of the problem,
12:44 am
as far as the algorithms are concerned, there is a continuous process of improvement, and we try to get better at it. are we to realise that this is not a solution that only facebook in england. misinformation, i nevera that only facebook in england. misinformation, i never a fact that the journalist was that when i was in the 905. usually the journalist was that when i was in the 905. u5ually get a bit ever are long—time. in the 905. u5ually get a bit ever are long-time. the effort to combat it... yes, but it feels that it has been whether those now on social media. that is that it has been a generation ago and now. its ability has spread and its ability has 5pread has spread and its ability has spread and cause a mechanic. has spread and its ability has spread and cause a mechaniclj has spread and its ability has spread and cause a mechanic. i think that morality i5 spread and cause a mechanic. i think that morality is a challenge. and i think that we tried to combat that. third—party fact checking programme we have launch, for example, it is not assume is looking at that, but oui’ not assume is looking at that, but our readers. we try to do several things. where not a company that — under present we are perfect. i will
12:45 am
not that we are successful the time. but we learn from our failures. irene, let me bring you in in terms of google and the search engine, because why— why if i type in where was because why— why if i type in where wa5 barack because why— why if i type in where wa5 ba rack 0bama because why— why if i type in where wa5 barack 0bama borne voters google technical conspiracy story, story that we know has been debunked, we know it is like it still there as the 11 hit? you more interested in click5 than the truth? the 11 hit? you more interested in clicks than the truth? as a search engine, we are not more interested in clicks than the truth. 0ur engine, we are not more interested in clicks than the truth. our goal is to make sure that if you are asking question of google that you get a torrent of content. it should be where he was born and you should be able to find conspiracy theories, if at all, way down. that is not the case, and that i5 down. that is not the case, and that is the case with so many other things that attract so many click5. i have not look about myself so can not speak to that specific incident. 0ne not speak to that specific incident. one of the things we think is really important is strength in
12:46 am
authoritative sources, so when people asking questions they rise up. we are doing that in a number of ways. we are working with news organisations and journalist, doing training on verification and on the technology side, making sure that when news organisation and others are creating fact checked content that its services on google and circuses in that way. why isn't stuff that is fake not been taken. google is a search engine, we are not coaxing that attract has in the content, we are pointing... you are decimating the content to billions. that is not what we want to do and certainly... maybe not what you want to do but that is the reality of what is happening. it is a constant battle for us to train the algorithm to ensure that it is actually servicing the content we want. we have thousands of search teams around the world trying to hone that specific search. a few quickfire
12:47 am
governance questions to all of you. which of your companie5 governance questions to all of you. which of your companies has a head of fa ke which of your companies has a head of fake news that has been appointed at what level? we don't have that position at twitter. facebook? no. google? no. do you have a head of department that is focused on attacking fake news?” department that is focused on attacking fake news? i can speak for india... i can speak for facebook india... i can speak for facebook india. india we do. we have made a new hire which we are an outing in a while. we have a committee of product policy... you have a head of finance, you have a head of sales, why, it used either by saying you are taking this seriously, why do you not have a head that is looking
12:48 am
specifically at attacking the problem of fake news? because we need to look at this from all angles within the organisation. you can say that of sales and marketing, finance, any of those departments. specifically to the issue of misinformation, it is a multifaceted blonde that requires product engineers as well as people who understand the policy and ecosystem who can collaborate together. our number—1 objective at twitter, that applies to the into our company, product, engineering, policy, everyone. is the health of the public conversation. you don't have somebody a ward level... for your r&d budget, or king at new ways to attack this problem, what proportion is spent on combating fake news?” don't know the exact number but it is the number—1 objective our product engineering teams is the health of public conversation.” know what you said about speaking for facebook but not whatsapp, whatsapp has a grievance officer for
12:49 am
india, that is based out of an us. a5 extraordinaire correct isn't it? —— that is extraordinary, isn't it? what we have discovered is that the grievance officer, allocation of the grievance officer, allocation of the grievance officer, allocation of the grievance officer, where are the teams that can solve the product is the most efficient way of solving the most efficient way of solving the problem. let me ask about some other thing you are doing in more detail. of you said you are learning, manish, iwant detail. of you said you are learning, manish, i want to look at the scale of what you are doing. facebook is working here in india with boom as a third party fact checker. it is illegal literature, boom employs six people. —— it is in all your literature. facebook has $11 billion revenue in eight —— 2018. there is a massive mix that
12:50 am
bastinac mismatched, isn't it. what is the mismatched you are talking about isn't it? i am talking about the scale of facebook‘s response. when facebook talk about working with boom, ritu has six people trying to debunk all of this tidal wave of stories we are talking about stop we just wave of stories we are talking about stop wejust added wave of stories we are talking about stop we just added another third—party fact checker recently, afp. just a point. nobody at facebook, or me at this point in time is going to say that it is a one—day solve or about... time is going to say that it is a one—day solve or about. . ” time is going to say that it is a one-day solve or about... i am asking you about the scale of your response, is it in any way sufficient to match the scale of the problem. my entity that is that it isa problem. my entity that is that it is a work in progress. we have to increase the network of third—party fa ct increase the network of third—party fact check is in india. i know that, thatis fact check is in india. i know that, that is a job i am personally responsible for. we had to improve the ways we combat misinformation on the ways we combat misinformation on the platform, we had to scale up, there is no doubt about that. but to say there is a mismatched is personally unfair because we are
12:51 am
trying to do a seriousjob of, adding the problem from three or four perspectives. we found that over a period of time improvements have been made. there is research out there including university research that says facebook's response to fake news from 2016 until now has improved significantly. but i wonder, just a final point on this, i wonder if pa rt final point on this, i wonder if part of the reason that the scale of it is not sufficient is simply because what is in the uppermost of perhaps all the platforms's mind is your business model. we talked about whatsapp earlier, the indian government say there has to be a workaround to encryption, but whatsapp says no, encryption is outing. facebook obsessed by growth, growth, growth. —— encryption is our thing. you say you are serious about
12:52 am
fa ke thing. you say you are serious about fake news but perhaps that is trumped by your business model. you have to ask me a question. is it? no. google? i should say our business model is fundamentally different. people are coming for search. if there are coming to us it is our goal fundamental to make sure they are getting good answers. what is the most important thing, is it a business model or is it taking this problem as seriously as you said right at the start? our business model is not fundamentally at odds with tackling this issue or trying to be part of the solution at all. in fact if we succeed in making sure out in fact if we succeed in making sure our platform is a place where people can get high quality information, that helps our business model will stop what about twitter's is in this model —— what about twitter's business model. does that supersede
12:53 am
tackling the problem we have with fa ke tackling the problem we have with fake news? absolutely not. our number—1 objective above any other in that company is the health of the public conversation. if you ask any of the —— executive... public conversation. if you ask any of the -- executive... why is it so problematic to take down fake sites? the philosophically, there is the question to be answered and one eve ryo ne question to be answered and one everyone to participate in, do you wa nt everyone to participate in, do you want individual companies like ours making decisions about what is true and not true. i get there are going to be certain circumstances when those are obvious. do you think your company should be doing that?” think it would be enormously challenging and if we did we would be having a discussion about how we we re be having a discussion about how we were not successful there as well. i don't think there are easy answers. but i do think it is important that we have these dialogues and are open to... we are not looking for easy a nswe i’s , we to... we are not looking for easy answers, we are looking for any a nswe i’s answers, we are looking for any a nswers to answers, we are looking for any answers to improve the situation. exactly, and one of the things you are going to see is all of us trying different things and learning from
12:54 am
each other to improve this. it is certainly not in service to our business model to have information thatis business model to have information that is inaccurate in our platform. i want to ask a question to all of you once again, how long should we give you, the authorities the view, to sort this all out before taking tougher action, sanctions perhaps, breaking you up, perhaps you are too big. tougher legislation.” breaking you up, perhaps you are too big. tougher legislation. i think the answer to that is the reason that some of us are here today is to have these conversations where we can participate with all members of society to have —— come to some sort of way to improve the platform. i don't think it is a question of time. 0ver don't think it is a question of time. over the past couple of years we have improved, made changes on a platform, and tried to bring a lot of infrastructure to solve the problem. we realise it is a challenge but with facebook and whatsapp, there is a lot of good that comes out of facebook and whatsapp. it is the story is that comes out that are the outliers. that is the gun lobby defence.
12:55 am
comes out that are the outliers. that is the gun lobby defencem comes out that are the outliers. that is the gun lobby defence. it is not, that is not true. what we are saying is we are understanding the problem, we are grappling with the problem, we are grappling with the problem, it is not a one—day process or even probably six months. we are sitting here out of a genuine desire to make an impact. when are the three companies trying to battle solutions for all of us to solve this problem. i work very closely with the head of news integrity at facebook and we have done training is together. last week, all the companies were together in the united states ahead of the election working together on these very issues. in the united states they we re issues. in the united states they were murmuring about this. i'm going to go back to the audience, i asked ifa to go back to the audience, i asked if a show of hands at the start, a final show of hands. in terms of what you have heard so far, who here it is more optimistic about trying to get to grips with this problem in
12:56 am
terms of what the tech companies are doing, given what you have heard. who is more optimistic. we have a lot of work to do. a lot of work, you talk about a lot of learning is, i can't let you come back but i think that shows you the scale of the challenge for all of you. our many problems at that is just a little glimpse. i want to thank you, the audience, i want to thank you for watching at home, around the world, and i want to thank our panellists for joining us world, and i want to thank our panellists forjoining us here today's discussion. applause. some of us got to see sunshine on friday but for many more today was spent under cloud shrouded in mist and murk. but as we progress through the weekend, more and more of us will see that sunshine. with that though, it will start to turn chilly.
12:57 am
high pressure anchored across the heart of europe, winds moving high pressure around in a clockwise direction, that gives us a south—easterly wind which will bring us some dry air. watch the cloud, it starts to break up. we will see more and more sunshine. let's look at that in more detail. a lot of cloud, some mist and murk and fog to start the day, the odd spot of drizzle. east anglia and northern scotland seeing some brightness, the cloud retreating westwards during the day, more and more of us see those blue skies overhead, so by lunchtime devon and cornwall and west wales might still have some cloud but for the midlands, east anglia and the south—east there should be some sunshine. north—east england and eastern scotland, particularly around higher ground, may well keep more cloud. it will take awhile to up across northern ireland, but western and northern scotland will see some sunshine. temperatures around 11 or 12 degrees, but a noticeable easterly breeze particularly
12:58 am
in the south, making it feel cooler than that. into early sunday with clear skies overhead it is going to be a cool night, probably too much of a breeze to allow things to get really cold, but your towns and cities will get down to 4— five degrees, maybe just a bit colder than that in the countryside. getting on into sunday it is a beautiful looking day to most of us, we will see plenty of sunshine, still perhaps some cloud at times feeding into some of the eastern slopes of the pennines, parts of eastern scotland, and those temperatures, 9—12, just subtly creeping downwards. a sign of what is to come, because going into the start of the new working week, high pressure will still be sitting here, those winds moving clockwise, but that will introduce some colder air from the east and that will also bring back the cloud. more cloud around on monday, perhaps the odd spot of drizzle, still a keen breeze particularly in the south, and the coldest feel will be in southern areas. single digits here, we may get to 10
12:59 am
degrees for belfast and glasgow, but it does look decidedly chilly into the middle part of the week. there will be cloud and the odd spot of drizzle, and over high ground maybe just a flake or two of something wintry. hello and welcome to bbc news. it's been another turbulent day for the british prime minister. theresa may has again been selling her draft brexit agreement, this time to the british public on a radio phone in. she also announced a new brexit secretary, previously a junior minister who supports leaving the european union. the moves come amid speculation that a leadership challenge against mrs may is about to be launched by hard—line brexiteer members of her own party.
1:00 am
39 Views
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on