this is bbc news. the headlines: for the first time in its history, mississippi has chosen a woman to represent the state in the us senate. republican cindy hyde—smith's win also extends the gop's majority in the senate to six. donald trump says he may pull out of a meeting with president putin because of the situation in ukraine. president trump says he wants more details about the detention of ukrainian sailors and three navy ships, after a tense confrontation over the crimea. the british government says there's been a significant increase in migrant boats crossing the english channel. home secretary, sajid javid, says the traffic is being organised by criminal gangs, and he's promised more cooperation with the french authorities. it's estimated 110 migrants have made it across in the last month. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk.

i'm stephen sackur. on 11 december, two—and—a—half years of posturing, politicking and poisonous disagreement will come to a head. the uk parliament votes on whether to accept the brexit deal prime minister theresa may has negotiated with the eu. her case boils down to this — it is the least worst option. but many in her own party, as well as the opposition, simply do not buy it. my my guess is former government ministerjojohnson, who my guess is former government ministerjo johnson, who resigned my guess is former government ministerjojohnson, who resigned in order to oppose this deal. does he have a credible alternative? —— guest. jojohnson, welcome to hardtalk.

great to be here. when you quit the governmentjust a great to be here. when you quit the government just a couple great to be here. when you quit the governmentjust a couple of great to be here. when you quit the government just a couple of weeks ago, you came out with mr —— very powerful statement. you describe brexit as a failure of rajesh statecraft on a scale not seen in the scillies crisis. you have been intimately connected with the brexit project from the very beginning. do you feel a very deep sense of guilt? i feel we are you feel a very deep sense of guilt? ifeel we are in you feel a very deep sense of guilt? i feel we are in an appalling situation right now and the government is presenting us with a choice that is completely accept a bull, that is what i was referring to. it is the choice that the government is framing between the prime minister's deal on one hand, which will trap us in this client

subordinate relationship with the eu for the foreseeable future, then on the other hand, the threat of a chaotic exit, and no—deal brexit that will be disastrous for our business community and lead to an all manner of chaos for residents in my constituency because we will see traffic backed up from the channel ports at the 20 and along the m26, thatis ports at the 20 and along the m26, that is a completely false choice for the government to present us with and that is a failure of statecraft. that phrase is such a grandiose phrase that surely we cannot place all of the blame on decisions taken in the last few weeks and one. my point to you, and your internet connection, is that your internet connection, is that you go back to the very beginning of this. you were one of the key architects of that conservative ma nifesto architects of that conservative manifesto on and david cameron was the leader of your party, which pledged to the british public and in out referendum on britain's

membership in the european union. when we talk about statecraft in the widest sense, do we agree that you need to take a share of the blame? yes, of course. i certainly find myself to be part responsible for the situation the country it is in. it was a mistake? the origins of internal conservative party tensions in europe go long decades. bay and said that by having an in out referendum, which had been avoided foran referendum, which had been avoided for an awful long time as a proposition within the conservative party. it was a position taken by david cameron advised by people as yourself. is interesting that you seem to be saying that was fundamental mistake. david cameron to the decision to hold a referendum injanuary to the decision to hold a referendum in january 2013 in to the decision to hold a referendum injanuary 2013 in a speech to bloomberg at headquarters in london, that predated my arrival. nonetheless, i certainly helped him and george osborne put together the

2015 manifesto on which we won a majority, that included, as you rightly say, the commitment to hold a referendum and to implement the result. do i think that was a mistake? knows. 0n result. do i think that was a mistake? knows. on balance, ithink on balance holding a referendum was the right thing to do, the campaign on both sides was not strong campaign, it was full of reckless promises, undeliverable commitments to the british people which are now coming home to roost and that is what we are now having to undertake thatis what we are now having to undertake that is what we have been on picking over the subsequent 28 months. the current prime minister theresa may has been honouring our commitment that 2015 manifesto to deliver the result and to honour that result and she has concluded, this massive agreement, 585 pages of the withdrawal agreement, 26 pages of rather high—level waffle in the political declaration, that constitutes the deal on which, as you said in your introduction, parliament is going to vote in just over a fortnight ‘s time.

parliament is going to vote in just over a fortnight 's time. if i may. for a second, you have sat in government with important positions, presentation more recently, sat in a government which has tried to find a compromise, to deliver a on the result of the referendum, to get written out of the eu but in a way that delivers as frictionless economic relationship with the eu as possible. it seems to me that with all of its pluses and minuses, is what theresa may has come up with. well, we have a deal now. it is the product onto a half years of negotiation, but in my mind it is the worst of all worlds. it really is hopeless and it is for that reason that i took the decision that ican no reason that i took the decision that i can no longer stay in the government. you only took it on the last minute of the last hours. you have been sitting in government, watching theresa may and her advisers are towards this deal for an awful long time and you are

supportive of it. precisely because i felt that we had a duty to offer the random —— on the referendum result, that is why i voted to start the article 50 process at the beginning of 2017, and that is why i kept my peace with in government and allow the private is that the greatest possible manoeuvre to reach a deal in the national interest. it was only when the deal came back and we sort its emerging shape in the chequers agreement over the summer, it was only when it came back i could see that it would lend us in the worst of all worlds, trap in the subordinate relationship with the eu that any games or sovereignty, but at massive economic cost, the very opposite of what was promised, that i realised i could no longer be a pa rt i realised i could no longer be a part of it or support it. theresa may's letter to the nation says this, we will, as a result of my deal, the one she has negotiated after so much effort, we will take back control of our borders are putting an end to free movement of people once and for all. we will

ta ke people once and for all. we will take back our control of our money, ending vast payments back to the eu. we will take the trouble of our laws, ending thejurisdiction we will take the trouble of our laws, ending the jurisdiction of the eu court ofjustice in the uk. those are three fundamental pillars she is delivering. well, i strongly disagree. i think that brexit, as hill, is not being delivered. we are not gaining control of our trade policy. the eu will continue to set oui’ policy. the eu will continue to set ourframe and policy. the eu will continue to set our frame and policy for trade as we are in the customs territory. as trump said this morning, this is a good dealfor the eu but it won't facilitate uk trade deals for countries outside the eu, such as the us. with respect, you don't know that she don't have a future trade relationship that will ultimately be negotiated in the second phase of this between britain and the eu. you don't know how free britain's deals will be with other countries. there are some basic realities here, the

eu isa are some basic realities here, the eu is a market that is five times the size of the uk's. we will need to negotiate access to that market and part of the whole package of our future relationship that is foreshadowed in the political declaration is that the provision for our membership of the civil customs tariff or will be at the very heart of it. the eu will shape oui’ very heart of it. the eu will shape our trade policy and that is why president trump is essentially right. it will not be possible for us right. it will not be possible for us to craft a meaningful trade deals with countries such as the us. for those people who do not follow the ins and outs of british politics every day, some will not know that you were an ardent remainer. surely, underpinning your position today is the fact that you believe leaving the fact that you believe leaving the eu is a terrible position for britain in any case and what you have chosen to do at the 11th, well, the last minute of the last hour of this process, is actually act upon yourfundamental this process, is actually act upon your fundamental instinct, which this process, is actually act upon yourfundamental instinct, which is to try to block brexit happening at all. i wanted the pm to bring back

at great deal that was in the national interest and i suspended belief for two years to do so. as i saw the chequers proposal emerged and the final deal that has come out of brussels more recently, that we will be trapped in the worst of all possible worlds and i do want to be a part of that. i mentioned politicking and poisonous atmosphere is in my introduction, just a point of interest to me but also political principle, when the chequers deal was created in the summer, your brother, who obviously is a dairy seniorfigure in the brother, who obviously is a dairy senior figure in the government, foreign secretary, after two days of negotiation, he flounced out, saying it represented what he called a suicide vest rap around the british body politic, you at the time were still not in the cabinet, but a senior minister. you didn't say a word, you can say anything. why not? at that point, negotiations with the

eu were ongoing and i didn't want to do anything that would limit the prime minister's freedom of manoeuvre. i did want to be accused of tying her hands and weakening our negotiating session in brussels, thatis negotiating session in brussels, that is why i kept my peace until she could march reached an agreement. it was at that point where i felt i had done my duty, allowed her maximum space to conduct allowed her maximum space to conduct a deal but i thought it wouldn't be in than astle interest, poor and less control than we were before. utterly pointless. but it will not look have us leaving the eu without anything whatsoever. go, but that is not the relevant benchmark. anything whatsoever. go, but that is not the relevant benchmarkm anything whatsoever. go, but that is not the relevant benchmark. it might be the relevant benchmark, according toa be the relevant benchmark, according to a lot of people ‘s minds, if theresa may does not win a majority for the steel in the house of commons, the ultimate direction of travel to a no deal, a crashed out brexit on march 2019 topic that is the false choice which the government is presenting to mps and the country as a whole. of course we

have other options, that is why i feel it is important that we could the people a chance to save whether they want to proceed with brexit now we know what it is. it is an idealised position to take. you are ignoring everything happened around you. the president of the european commission is saying that this is the best deal britain can get, in fa ct, the best deal britain can get, in fact, it is the only deal that the eu will consider giving to the uk and if it doesn't take it, the clear implication is there will be no renegotiation. no further negotiation, this is it.|j renegotiation. no further negotiation, this is it. i am not suggesting a renegotiation, i think the prime minister has got the best deal that britain could get under the circumstances. what i am saying is that now that we know what the copy reality of a negotiated brexiteers, that we go back the people and say you want to brexit, this is the negotiated brexit which the prime minister has delivered. is the prime minister has delivered. is the only brexit that is negotiable, on the table, now over to you. if you want it, this is it, if you

don't want it, there is an opportunity to reconsider this position. are you a gambler? instinctively, as a person, argue a risk taking gambler? it is important to be entrepreneurial in life, i support people who take risks, if you want to stand by your convictions in politics sometimes you have to do that copy this is the most extraordinary risk that you are suggesting that the whole nation ta kes. suggesting that the whole nation takes. there is the suggestion that if it goes wrong is it cost the nation enormously. is there not an arrogant —— arrogance in you demanding the nation take that risk? listen, i am just a backbench mps putting their due out. is up to people whether they want to take any notice of me. all i am now saying is that we know what brexit looks like is the province and the government has been to an years negotiating it. i think will be a travesty of democracy to ignore the public will let alone what i think, ignore the public and say this is the brexit you are going to get, like it or not. actually, when i look at my

mailbag as a constituency mp, i see residents in my constituency saying they don't want this brexit, neither remainers all leaders want this because it is the worst of all worlds. i want to come to your proposition in a moment, but consider this idea of risk a little more. theresa may said this in the commons yesterday, she said, no one knows what will happen if this deal doesn't pass, but it will open the door to more division, more uncertainty, and all of the risk that that will entail. surely, whatever you think of herjudgement in the last few weeks, you surely agree with that? no, i think proceeding on this basis with a ford, botched brexit leaving us in the worst of all worlds would be the worst. the conservative party will be blamed for bungling brexit, a half in, heart out relationship that leaves us half in, heart out relationship that leaves us poorer half in, heart out relationship that leaves us poorer than we were before. we will not be forgiven for that. on the contrary, surely this

goes against everything that churchill said about democracy, the least worst system. it is not good, but better than the others. the conservative approach is to leave things as they are if you don't have a better solution. we don't have a better solution for the arrangements we currently enjoy in the eu, that is what which are put back to the dish people, we got the negotiated brexit that the prime minister secured, you either want that all you crash out altogether that no deal at all. let's unpick this proposition of a second referendum. is contracted beginning. you are are the man who wrote the manifestoes that said the conservative party promises the british people and in out referendum which will settle the matter britain in europe once and for all. you are now the man who appears to be going back to the same public and saying, whatever i promised you before about referendum that would settle the matter was com plete that would settle the matter was complete rubbish, i don't like the result, the ongoing to do it all again. that is not credible. it

potentially will settle the matter. you said that last time. we put her offer to the public, if they want to accept that, that's it. you lose your credibility when you come back and say we're going to do it again. toa and say we're going to do it again. to a certain extent, but actually, you've got to realise, the referendum we had injune, 2016 isn't the same as the decision we'd be asking the public to make now. we have 385 pages of a legal agreement and a 26 page political declaration. -- 585 and a 26 page political declaration. —— 585 pages. and a 26 page political declaration. -- 585 pages. in brief, there's a few specific mechanics here i don't understand. the british parliament has passed an eu withdrawal act, that and the eu's treaty says that... at least the article 50 rules say that we're leaving, absolutely categorically leaving on march the 29th, 2019. i don't understand, least of all in timing, how you can get a referendum which

requires parliamentary legislation and a very complex process to set it in train, how you can get that done before the clock runs out on much the 29th, 2019. you're right, you wouldn't get it done by the 29th of march, 2019, and it would require the agreement of our european partners to suspend the article 50 process or extend the article 50 process or extend the article 50 process to give us time, a few extra months, to hold a referendum. you said parental is a, there is no majority in the british parliament, as far as anyone can tell, to get any of that done. as things stand today, that's probably true, i would concede that, but this is a very dynamic situation and everyone would recognise if the prime minister's deal is voted down in a couple of weeks' time, everyone in parliament would be looking for a way through and one of the most obvious way is through is a referendum that puts this question back to the british people. only, jo johnson, if you can a nswer people. only, jo johnson, if you can answer the most basic question of all, what's the question on the

ballot paper for the second referendum? ballot paper for the second referendum ? you thought ballot paper for the second referendum? you thought about it because there is a simple way out. parliament will legislate, there will be extensive debates in parliament. the electoral commission will test the question as legislation goes through the house of commons. what i think is important for the question is it doesn't disenfranchise strong groups within society, people who've got strong views for leave, strong views for remain and strong views in support of the prime minister's deal. you've already laid out three different territories, are you suggesting this won't be a binary referendum? word it's possibly it's not a non—binary referendum, but what is relevant is parliament will determine the question on the advice given by the electoral commission. if you would, frame for me, it's not your decision, it will be a collective decision in the end, but

frame for me a question you think would work. you're familiar with how we elect mayers in metro cities across the country, london, birmingham, manchester and so on. we have a preferential vote with a first preference, where you identify the candidate you want to be mayor most, then you identify the person you could live with as a second choice and progressively as candidates are eliminated, those that get second preference votes are redistributed. it's a system of voting with the millionaire with in at least six maher collections across the country. it's a system which is well understood and can easily be deployed in the event parliament decides bennies to be three options, remain, leave without a deal or leave with the prime minister's deal that's been negotiated over the last 2.5 years. what you've outlined is compensated. it is if you want it to be. it doesn't have to be. we've selected mayers like this in london, we've done so on many occasions. the mayor

of london is one thing, we started with a quote from you, a grandiose quote about historic decision is more important and more challenging as anything since suez, we're not talking about collecting the mayor of london or manchester, withington about something that shapes britain for the next 50 or 100 years. be quite easily managed to make choices based on different parties‘ ma nifestoes based on different parties‘ manifestoes and. they quite easily choose between candidates representing up to ten different political parties. it's to undermine the ability of the electorate or to undermine the... it could damage the economy to 8% of gdp by 2030 with a no deal. you're rolling the dice accepting that that is a part of your gamble. well, if mps choose to put that particular scenario on the ballot paper, i will... you said yourself that it would have to be on the ballot paper. ultimately that would be one of the possible outcomes. i would obviously argue

strongly against a no deal outcome of that sort, and i'm sure the empire business community would as well. i can't believe there are many mps environment who would welcome that. you have a opportunity to support theresa may with what she acknowledges as a compromise deal, you have the opportunity to be sure britain would avoid that fate. but you're rolling the dice. look, i think the prime minister's deal has extraordinary floors. it will leave us poorer, extraordinary floors. it will leave us poorer, it will leave us less in control. we won't get any of the advantages with brexit in terms of the ability to do trade deals and turbocharged our economy and deregulation and lower taxes and do all manner of standards, which was the brexit vision. none of that is going to come to pass and that's why i think it would be a travesty of democracy if we didn't go back to people and say, is this the brexit

you actually want? in the 1840s arguments over the corn laws, trade and tariffs destroyed the conservative party for an awful long time, decades. that's happening again, your party is going to be destroyed over the next few weeks, isn't it? it's important we come together. come on, people aren't coming together. you and your brother have fallen out completely. my brother have fallen out completely. my brother and i are in total agreement on the question for the need to reject this deal. but from different ends of the perspective. borisjohnson, former different ends of the perspective. boris johnson, former foreign secretary, he's calling it shameful capitulation and surrender, vassalage, colonisation, in slave mode, suicide vest around the body of britain's. that's his language from the point of view of an ardern at brexiteer —— in slave meant. you're an —— ardent laxity —— enslavement. whether you are remain or leave, all of us care about being in control of our lawmaking

processes . in control of our lawmaking processes. its inherent in our democracy you need the consent of the government, that's what we're losing over the regulation of vast swathes of our economy with the prime minister's deal and that is unsustainable and unacceptable. what is at stake is the current state of the conservative party.|j is at stake is the current state of the conservative party. i don't deny the conservative party. i don't deny the party is divided, who could? the important thing is we don't do something because it's on the table, it's a bad option. we need to go back to the people and ask them to confirm this is the brexit they want, and if not, let's pause and give them the option to stay in the european union. in all honesty, what do you think this brexit crisis has done, is doing, will do to britain's political fabric? well, done, is doing, will do to britain's politicalfabric? well, look, clearly it's a difficult time in politics. the opportunity cost of brexit is enormous. we are wasting so much brain power across government, across the country that could be better deployed solving the

real causes of brexit. 0ur could be better deployed solving the real causes of brexit. our low productivity, poor social mobility, housing crisis, income inequality, all these bundle fundamental issues we should be tackling because their government is doing so much thinking about brexit and mitigating the damage it's going to be doing to our economy and our society. so the wasted opportunity... you really think another referendum is going to solve that problem?” think another referendum is going to solve that problem? i do. it's an opportunity to rethink this course. believe me, if we accept the prime minister's deal, we're not going to stop talking about brexit. we will talk about the transition period, on what basis do we extend it, the trading relationship, for how long, with who. it's never going to stop. jojohnson, we with who. it's never going to stop. jo johnson, we have with who. it's never going to stop. jojohnson, we have to stop right there but thank you for coming on hardtalk. thank you. hello there.

we've replaced our cold, dry weather now with something a lot more unsettled — wet, windy and much milder conditions, which will be with us in fact for the next few days. now, through today this next area of low pressure means business. it's going to be quite a deep area of low, bringing gales and heavy rain. in fact, there could be some disruption to travel throughout today, so keep tuned to your bbc local radio for all the local updates there. now, we're starting the day off, though, on a pretty mild note. we've lost the overnight frost that we've seen for the last week or so. temperatures starting off around six to eight degrees. now, we're dragging this milder air from the azores on a south—westerly wind. might not feel so mild, though, because of the gales and the rain, but it really will be milder than what we've been used to. spells of pretty heavy rain through the morning moving northwards, follow followed

by showery bursts of rain further south during the afternoon. and then an area of much heavier, persistent rain for scotland, where we could see some pretty high rainfall totals on the hills there. temperatures, double figures for all, as high as 1a or 15 across the south—east, but it's going to be very windy indeed. 60—65mph in exposure across western coasts, and then later in the day closer to 70mph perhaps for the north—east of scotland and the northern isles. and it's a brief window of fine weather during wednesday evening before the next bout of wet and windy weather starts to spread into the south of the country as we head into the early part of thursday. now, there could be a very windy spell of weather across parts of wales and the western half of england through thursday morning, as this next little area of low pressure moves north—eastwards. and with it, again, a spell of pretty heavy rain, which will clear through.

and by thursday afternoon we should see a little bit of brightness breaking out, just a few blustery showers, maybe heavy and thundery, across south—western areas. temperatures down a degree or so on wednesday's values, closer to nine to 13 degrees. as we end the week, low pressure still very much in charge. again, very windy, particularly across northern areas. as you can see, tightly packed isobars there. it's going to be i think a bright day on friday. most of the showers, blustery showers, will be across northern and western areas. and these will be increasingly wintry over the hills, as it will be a chillier day across the north. but very blustery, again, with the risk of gales across scotland, maybe into the far north of england. blustery across the south, though not quite as windy as it will be further north. and you'll notice a little bit cooler, with temperatures of nine to ten or 11 celsius. as we head on in towards the weekend, we maintain an unsettled theme, quite blustery, strong south—westerly winds. again, fairly mild across england and wales. turning a bit cooler, though, for scotland and northern ireland. this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock.

our top story: donald trump threatens to pull out of a meeting with president putin as russia's conflict with ukraine intensifies. a sharp increase in migrant boats crossing the channel to the uk. ministers say it is being organised by criminal gangs. we track down some of those responsible. us republicans extend their majority in the senate, following a rerun election in mississippi dogged by racial tension. and an end to concrete that cracks and crumbles. we meet the scientists who have created a material that self—repairs. and brexit impact. the bank of england will today lay out its assessments of how britain