Skip to main content

tv   Dateline London  BBC News  December 9, 2018 2:30am-3:00am GMT

2:30 am
he says will make the air rises he says will make the air cleaner and the nations in the world head to a country that loves its fossil fuels to write a new rulebook to curb climate change. welcome to all of you. on tuesday, mps will vote on whether or not to accept the brexit terms negotiated with the european union by theresa may. the prospect of defeat looms large, not least after this week?s vote in which the house of commons found the government in contempt of parliament. ministers had been resisting publishing the full legal advice which confirmed that, during its transition out of the eu, the uk can't unilaterally withdraw from a key part of the agreement. it took barely a handful of mps from mrs may's conservatives to rebel to ensure the government?s defeat on the contempt motion. many more than that have said they'll vote against on tuesday. david, prediction is mug's game, even more in this case. do you have any sense how this week will pan out? you havejust asked me to be a mug!
2:31 am
welcome to the programme! i will respectfully decline. i will help you out a bit more with some form of analytical framework for this. the big question is, is there any kind of settlement or deal or proposition for a deal which parliament could agree upon? is there such a thing? nevermind theresa may's dealfor the moment, that will almost certainly be defeated on tuesday. that is one prediction i think everybody can make. the second thing, what is the form of government which we could have short of the general election which would deliver that one deal that parliament could agree about? just keep your eyes on those two questions. on the question of why it would be
2:32 am
short of a general election, mps have tied their hands on the general election. the good old system where you voted down what the government did, they held a no—confidence vote, that was defeated, then you went to the queen and she called a general election, that option isn't there any more. that was abolished during the period of the coalition government. now, effectively, two thirds of mps have to effectively agree that they won the general election. of course, the problem with that is, the people who think they are likely to lose a majority tend not to want to vote for it, unless somebody can convince them that they would look silly if they don't, so i might lose my seat but at least i won't look stupid.
2:33 am
the polls don't exactly shout confidence for the conservatives were labour as to what the result would be. that is also a dubious proposition. a waste of a good crisis to have a general election. a general election would resolve anything. you have two major parties both non—functioning coalitions. you are saying to the electorate, would you like the other non—functioning coalition, which will then fail to resolve the question on the table, which is brexit. i'm hoping this crisis will get deeper and even more dramatic so something might happen. when you say a promising way, what is the promise that is held at broadview? i have always thought brexit could not be delivered because it was a stupid question with a muddy answer we have spent two years not deciding what we mean by it. clearly that is politically undeliverable.
2:34 am
it will need to go back to some other resolution which looks more likely to be another referendum, then we can possibly get back to governing the country as opposed to worrying about chasing unicorns. agnes, we heard on saturday morning from amber rudd, newly returned to the cabinet, saying she thought there was a plan b, the norway plus option. all of these variations, we don't need to get hung up on the details, but all of these variations are effectively require a compromise of one kind or another. do you detect any willingness to compromise, is there a realisation among politicians that compromise is inevitable? the britain i know today is not the britain we have known for decades. it is behaving in a very un—british way, we don't understand what is going on. we thought you didn't do ideology. you have been doing it for 2.5
2:35 am
yea rs. we were relying in europe for you to not do passion, which is so dangerous and politics. look at what has been going on in paris. you have been doing it for two and a half years. we hope that somehow you will become british again. i put my hope and faith in the british parliament, because britain is a great democracy, after all. the end of the line could come from british mps. if they decided, british mps, to revoke article 50. i know it is wild optimism on my part. so you think anybody in brussels who thinks that theresa may could win this vote on tuesday, that is for the birds, we should look for another option, whichjeremy corbyn has said to allow for more negotiations, where he prime minister, that is an option he would consider. it would not be easier... it wouldn't be in the interests of britain.
2:36 am
we haven't talked about the interest of britain for two and a half years. at least everybody would find closure. in two generations‘s time, then you would join again because it would take it that much time to realise it was a bad idea. but at least britain could go back to just doing what it should be doing, looking at the nhs, looking at so many other issues. greg, are you fascinated by this? baffled ? i am enjoying it. i am nervous about covering it because it is utterly unpredictable and the result of the next 72 hours, seven days, seven weeks is unknowable. parliament became much more important this week. two key votes in parliament were asserting its authority to shape the deal. the non—binding decision from the european court that gives parliament the right if it is confirmed to
2:37 am
revoke article 50. my question for the constitutional scholars is, what happens parliament says we have made no progress, we revoke article 50, and the government decides not to do it. the revocation i think is a red herring, unfortunately. it would anull the result of the referendum by parliament unilaterally and they are very few takers for that. almost any other course of action we could imagine after theresa may's deal is defeated would require an application for an extension of article 50, and that does require the eu to agree. it was relevant to the degree that it was to another referendum to give parliament the ability to revoke article 50. or a general election.
2:38 am
or a leadership election for the conservative party. i feel like that woman who said, not again! this is essentially an english problem. scotland voted the other way, northern ireland voted the other way, england and wales have an identity problem which they have to somehow address. it is also a very big northern ireland problem. one of the interesting straws in the wind are a couple of polls that suggest that people in northern ireland might actually preferred unity with ireland's than a no deal brexit. northern ireland has got itself into a position whereby if voted
2:39 am
to remain, is represented in parliament entirely by people who are hardline brexiteers and the people who would best represent the people who wanted to stay will take up their seats in parliament. another well functioning political system! in the good friday agreement, that is the tipping point when it could reunite with the republic. a few have a majority of citizens in northern ireland saying we want to join the republic, then that would be called for. another referendum! "let them drive less" had appeared to be emmanuel macron‘s initial response to the giletjaune, or yellow vest, protests which erupted across frances over his plan to increase fuel taxes. the president said he was doing his bit for the environment. "those who complain about higher fuel prices also demand action against air pollution because their children are sick." it did nothing to dispel his reputation for regal arrogance. after a weekend in which paris resonated to the sound of tear gas and stun grenades, his government suspended the fuel tax increase with mr macron‘s prime minister conceding, "this anger is rooted in a profound injustice."
2:40 am
agnes, how do you look on the week's events? do you think last weekend's protests and the response of the macron government represents a turning point for his government? definitely. his last breath, really. i mean strangely, we thought last yesterday would be the first test. we had three months of strikes. transport was quite impossible. the country was quite paralysed. the protests were organised by the trade unions and the left and right parties, well organised, unlike what is going on at the moment. we thought, ok, he has done it. onto the next reform. this one, we did not see it coming at all. i was worried before
2:41 am
the first day of action on the 17th of november, the first saturday, because there was something going on on social networks, the yellow vests. it is a revolt, not a movement yet. it is like in the 1880s when the trade unions were born out of revolt. you need some organisation, some delegation, some representation. some way of taking it forward. exactly. we haven't got that yet. that is why the situation is quite volatile and dangerous for french democracy, because we are talking about who are the yellow vests ? we know and we don't know. it is about 5 million people who belong to the lower—middle class, but socially, geographically or professionally, they are artisans, small shopkeepers, farmers, self—employed people. they all talk about macron having to resign, they
2:42 am
have the head of macron rolling down the shone so lazy. macron has been in powerfor 18 months. he wasn't even born when the public policies that started the 30 years of gradual... how do you call it? you know, poison seeping through the french system. and responsible for this immense and very deep anger. and at the moment, it is the get off one's chest moment, and in a french way, very violent. it is worrying because we are talking about people who have come to paris to actually kill the police force. we are used to the theatre of politics, but usually, it is quite safe because there is an organisation behind it. there are people to deal with. exactly. the trade unions talk to the police, the police stopped them. there is the theatre,
2:43 am
we love a good demonstration, but this is different. hence, the danger. there is a lot for people to be angry about. from the american perspective, fuel taxes of this kind would be political unacceptable anyway. france's richest 1% controlled 20—plus percent of the country's wealth. so much for a revolution 250 years ago. america is france's oldest ally, do you look at this and think, what on earth is going on? i look at it as, we are used to these episodic outbursts in france caused by this inequality, but usually they are at a much smaller scale and they burn themselves out after a couple of days. this one seems completely... it developed so quickly, it seems really out of control at this point. what occurs to me is the conditions in spain, parts of italy, it is not like europe is going strong.
2:44 am
is this going to show up in england, some anger with brexit? where does the spread? it is hard tojudge. i don't see much of a comparison to the united states at this point, where the president doesn't believe in climate change. we'll talk about that in a bit. in terms of street protests of this kind, nothing you would be used to? no, we would need to go back to 1968 to see this in the states. it doesn't seem to be about climate policy. the diesel tax, yes, that triggered it. as agnes says, we have had 30 years of rising inequality and it seems to me the common thread in all these movements is rage of inequality, rage at the lack of attention to those who have suffered from the global concentration of wealth.
2:45 am
talking about the end of the world, we are talking about the end of the month. carbon taxes, diesel taxes, are in place all around the world. this is not necessarily attacks the poor. the fact that those who already felt under pressure precede the rich being let off and the poor are being hit is really rooted in something much deeper and more lasting. that is why withdrawing its... the irony is that there is this pressure advance, the rising inequality. the welfare system is generous. france is a champion of welfare spending. 57% of gdp is redistributed. the health system is superb. isn't there a classic problem of the long—term objectives of the president taking longer to come through than people's
2:46 am
patients is likely to last. macron has done all kinds of things, let's take the example of class sizes, he has significantly reduced class sizes. that is supposed to help the educational standards and levels of ordinary people, so they can aspire to take the newjobs which are likely to come up, rather than for continuously that they could go back to alljobs that are gone, because he doesn't believe they will exist, and they want. at the one level, we always say we want politicians that plan for the long—term plan for the long term, but such politicians are generally punished for not keeping their eye firmly on the short term. just one other small observation — always leave people's cars alone. it is astonishing the psychological attachment people have to their cars. as the president said, don't touch their cars, with the french people.
2:47 am
the only thing when i was a school governor that would get the parents going was when you interfered with the parking. droping off and picking up, all of that. do you think macron has a grasp of how serious the situation is? oh, yes, completely. but the yellow vests, if you compare their demands, and they are as varied as they are vague, but a french newspaper said, let's look at them. 50 demands going from leaving the european union, to laving the nato, having less taxes that were public services. they compared it to the french politician's political programmes, and it corresponded to marine le pen's programme. the opposed extremes. we thought that france didn't have any populism,
2:48 am
or at least on the side, and it is happening, it is happening. with fake news playing part and russia today playing part... when you describe the people who were taking part, the name pierre bouchard inevitably came to mind. you know better than i do, you really have been here before, but maybe not so much on the streets. except boucha rd was really a conformist. it was small shopkeepers. this is much wider. it is a bit of that, a bit of the 1880s. i could go on forever. a bit of the 1934 extreme right leagues. i could go on. how many hours do we have? not enough, sadly!
2:49 am
another president, a different take on climate change. welcoming delegates to a global conference intended to draw up rules for curbing man's contribution to climate change in katowice, poland's head of state, andrzej duda, pointed to coal waiting to be extracted that could heat homes and feed industry for another 200 years. it would be hard not to use them. it perfectly illustrates the special pleading by nations rich and poor that always undermined attempts to draw up rules for this. how optimistic are you about this? i don't thing we are going to get a tremendous breakthrough from this. as far as poland and coal, it is odd to see poland clinging to that last bit of soviet—style economy, when i'm sure they would like to think of themselves as another country now. a lot of people say 50 years, if you are lucky. extractable coal.
2:50 am
this is really about the mythology of mining, i think, although the number of miners itself has been drastically reduced in the last few years. it is a bit like fishing, where the economic impact is small, numbers are small, but there is an emotional attachment. there is. coal‘s role in poland as energy is pretty important. but the coal—fired power stations are old, most of the mines barely break even or run a deficit. poland is having to import coal to run its coal—fired power stations. far be to make the leap at this point. there is a kind of mythologicalfear of very embedded union power. there is a practical thing facing the talks, the us is effectively now disavowed the whole process,
2:51 am
said the paris agreement three years ago is not my wedded to. right. coal resonates in the us emotionally. the symbolic value of it, will play an important role in the 2020 election. trump managed to win because he convinced 200,000 or so people in the midwest that his industrial policy, his ability to bring back some of these coaljobs that had been lost was a reason to vote for him. that will be tested in four years and it could well be that same mythological 200,000 people or so who decide next election. coal is important and the idea of bringing it back, in the us, is not deemed very credible. no—one in investing in it because it doesn't have a future. the irony of trump is my position, on the one hand he is in the knock—down fight with china over who owns the future.
2:52 am
in the other hand, he is trying to prop up i9th—century technology, which everybody knows is moribund. it won't create jobs. it will be done by robots anyway. what is john's opinion on this having on china? it takes the pressure wrath. you have a lot of vested interest in process trouble. but china has bet its future on future technologies and low—carbon technologies. they understand basic physics and they know what the risks are. the threat of climate change, but also the next iteration of the chinese economy is to move up that value chain. for them, it is also a huge opportunity. this will process is meant to be about moving beyond a voluntary status, like in indonesia, but that is vague about how you apply it. nationalism is on the rise. presumably, that mitigate against the sort of agreements? nationalism, and a location almost
2:53 am
of the masculine past in things like mining. the same, funnily enough, applies to fishing. this notion of these hard status jobs, kind of rugged people have done them over the years, it gives them a place in society. there is a degree of truth in that. in the end, the question always was whether you would be prepared to pay the cost in the immediate term to prepare for the long term. this is the second time this theme has come up on this programme. climate change is that in spades. unless you are a denialist, you know that you have got to do for the future of humanity and for our grandchildren, etc. to decide that you do not know it is a real decision. now, in the end, very, very few politicians will take
2:54 am
the decision not to know it. you really have to be perverse. even in the states, quite a number of states and governors and so on have wanted to welcome in that the technology and want to be part of it. it is happening on a local or city region. do the indonesians know that in a way which solves their current problems? that's always the tricky bit. if "advanced countries", developed economies can do it and said they are doing it, it is harder in developing countries, but they are 60% or something of the current climate changing problem is coming from the developing world. but it's also having the people on board. that is what you're seeing in france. you must make the transition just and fairfor everyone. for instance, there was this eco—tax that was adopted before president macron was elected. if you look at the revenues,
2:55 am
about 32 billion euros, only a fourth of the money was going to be reinvested in helping to adjust. we have the answer now, it should be more! you should help people who rely on their cars to go about their day, to switch to electric cars, with real incentives. make it so that everybody... they can afford doing it. the consequences are in the future. the action needs to be now. the energy that the obama administration put into it, the paris agreement and the diplomatic corps did a brilliant job. none of these things apply in poland so it'll be slower and trickier. i don't think it will go backwards at this point, just won't go forwards fast enough. that's dateline london. thank you forjoining us.
2:56 am
i'll be back next week, unless theresa may decides to appoint me ambassador to the un, of course. from all of us, goodbye. good morning. saturday was a windy, showery day for many of us, and there's still plenty of showers to come, with the winds still remaining a feature. but they are slowly going to ease over the next few hours, and for the bulk of us on sunday, it will be a dry one with sunny spells, but noticeably cooler. now, the strongest of the winds over the next few hours will slowly start to ease, but we could still potentially see gale—force gusts in places and a rash of showers to come. one of the reasons why they're going to ease away is a change of wind direction, starting to push
2:57 am
that little frontal system further south in the early hours of sunday morning. introducing some colder air behind it, the wind direction coming from a north—westerly. so, we could have some early showers, they will ease away and it's an improving picture as we go through sunday. clearer skies and sunny spells. a few showers into north wales and northern ireland during the afternoon, maybe one or two for the western isles, not as windy as the last few days, but you have to factor in the direction of the wind, because that's just going to make it feel cooler out there. 6 to 7 degrees in the north, we might just see i! down in the south—west. overnight sunday night, we keep those clear skies and the winds falling lighter still. so, the temperatures are likely to fall away, particularly in the northern half of the country. scotland, northern england, we will see temperatures falling below freezing in rural spots, and a frost first thing. a chilly start generally across the country.
2:58 am
a cold start to the new working week, but a dry, bright one, again, some sunshine coming through, just a few isolated showers out to the west. this is going to be the trend as we move into the week. so, the best of the drier, sunnier weather is likely to be sheltered eastern areas, but that's where the coolest of the weather is going to be. 4—6 degrees, 10—12 the high further west. this is going to be the theme. to the east, we're always dragging in the colder air from the near continent, but the west wants to drag back this milder air and the south—westerly winds, and that could also bring more unsettled weather with it. so, we see this again on tuesday, a southerly wind drives in the weather front, and further east, the drier the brighter, but the colder the weather is likely to be. 4—6 again the high, 10—12 into the south—west. and it does look as though further ahead, we start to see that milder weather pushing its way in. as that bumps into the cold air, it could get a bit tricky with some wintery weather to higher ground. welcome to bbc news —
2:59 am
broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. i'm reged ahmad. our top stories — chief of staffjohn kelly is the latest member of donald trump's administration to leave the white house. shock at the un climate talks after the us, russia and others object to a major scientific report on global warming. a fragile order is restored to the streets in france, hundreds are arrested in the lith weekend of anti—government protests. and, the story of the "girl in the mosaic" as she finally re—joins the rest of her family in a display in turkey.
3:00 am

29 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on