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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  December 11, 2018 5:00pm-6:00pm GMT

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today at 5pm — we're live at westminster, where the future of the brexit deal is still in doubt, as the prime minister seeks help from fellow eu leaders. theresa may is on a rapid tour of european capitals, including brussels — where she's meeting leaders and officials to ask for more assurances on her brexit deal. but, in the european parliament, the commision president rules out any option of renegotiating the current brexit deal. the deal we've achieved is the best deal possible. it's the only deal possible, . deal possible. it's the only deal possible,. there is no room whatsoever for renegotiation. in westminster — labour leader, jeremy corbyn, faces increasing pressure to hold a vote of no confidence in the government, after they postponed the "meaningful vote" on the withdrawal agreement. and, it's been confirmed that the prime minister will travel to dublin tomorrow, for urgent talks with the taioseach, as she tries to rescue the deal she's put together. i'm shaun ley, with the day's other main stories: uk coastguards pick up six more
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migrants claiming to be iranian, as they crossed the english channel. 100 other people making the same journey have been detained in the last month. scientists from nasa find signs that major glaciers in the east of antarctica are melting away — a part of the continent that was thought to be more stable. today at 5pm — we're live at westminster on the day mps were meant to be taking part in the big vote on the prime minister's brexit plans. but that vote has been delayed, and the prime minister is instead spending the day in european
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capitals — asking fellow leaders to give further assurances on the deal she's negotiated. those assurances are focused on the future of the irish border, but many conservative mps want the deal to be renegotiated. these are the day's developments so far: theresa may is currently in brussels meeting the european council president, donald tusk, we're expecting to get an update on that shortly. he said yesterday that the deal could not be renegotiated. this morning in berlin, mrs may met the german chancellor, angela merkel, who has said there is "no way to change" the brexit deal. this followed a meeting with the dutch prime minister. and, there'll be a meeting with the irish taisoeach tomorrow. on the crucial question of when mps will get that big vote — downing street says it will take place by the 21st of january — which is the final deadline for the deal to be approved. in the commons today — labour forced an emergency debate on the government's handling of the debate. and, jeremy corbyn is being urged by other opposition
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parties to engineer a vote of no confidence in the government. we'll have details and reaction. and, we'll be talking to gina miller, the prominent anti—brexit campaigner, and lord lamont, one of the leading brexit supporters. we start with this report by our europe correspondent damian grammaticas. it's something the eu may never have seen — a british prime minister in trouble at home seeking help in her hour of need. first stop, the netherlands. can she come back with anything that will appease the seething discontent back home? at this late stage, a charm offensive may not be enough to secure real changes to the deal on offer. all the dutch prime minister would say is that their breakfast had been useful. from there it was onto her next stop, but at every turn, the prime minister appears stuck.
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political gridlock at home, and here in berlin, even her car door refused to open. a fundamental problem, she has agreed the deal must have a backstop to avoid border controls ever returning in the island of ireland, and parliament doesn't like it. the uk's junior brexit minister was in brussels with her new demands. good morning. she wants additional legal reassurances that the uk cannot be permanently trapped in the irish backstop. that has been the issue all along. that is the issue that is at the heart of concerns expressed by many members of parliament. eu countries say that mrs may agreed a year ago to the idea of special terms for northern ireland. after months of haggling and drafting, the negotiations are over. translation: we have put so much time and effort into something that we in berlin and brussels don't want. nobody wants the uk to leave.
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now there will be further talks, but i can't imagine where we can substantially change anything. we can't reopen what have been tough negotiations, hard for the eu 27 and the uk. instead, the eu says it can give reassurance, perhaps a document saying ideally, hopefully, the backstop will never be used. there is no room whatsoever for renegotiation, but of course, there is room, if used intelligently, there is room enough to give further clarifications and further interpretations without opening the withdrawal agreement. meeting mrjuncker will be the last item on the prime minister's whistle—stop tour. as donald tusk and a junglejunker has made clear, they will help mrs
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mayweather predicament but they won't ride to the rescue. in a moment we'll get the very latest from westminster with our chief political correspondent vicki young , but first let's go to brussels and our europe correspondent, damian grammaticas. any signals that so issue might be more thanjust any signals that so issue might be more than just the assurance on this plan? she might get a little more than that, but not much more. the signals we've heard so far, is coming from angela merkel is that she has been saying that there will be no renegotiation of the central withdrawal treaty with that crucial irish backstop in it. there could be offered of reassurance, letters on the side, their hearts, to indicate that you doesn't want to see the backstop coming into effect. but, not on the central question. the eu
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and the uk, mrs meir agreed with evil leaders more than a year ago that the irish issue is —— eu leaders that the irish issue would be sorted out. the negotiations have been hammered out in the way that mrs maeda minded, in the way that the uk wanted. the eu now feel that they've conceded that but they will not pursue the other on the basic principle that it is enjoying. the abuses from the talks that are happening right now with doncaster and john zogbyjunker is at the same will be delivered with no fundamental changes, perhaps with more reassurance. our chief political correspondent vicki young is in central lobby for us now. tell is above this afternoon ‘s debate? this was the moment we
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thought we would be building up to the biggest name in an recent parliamentary history. that confidential decision by the prime minister to delay that meaningful vote m ea ns minister to delay that meaningful vote means that there is a lot of protesters out here but not much going on inside. jeremy corbyn did manage to secure this emergency debate to discuss that decision by the comic. what opposition parties are saying is that she's running scared. that she knew that the deal was so scared. that she knew that the deal was so bad that she couldn't visit to the house of commons because it could be defeated sue buckley. this is what the labour leader had to say. as mr speaker, if the prime minister comes back with nothing more than warm words, then she must immediately put her deal to the house. hear, hear! no more delays, no more tricks, let parliament take control. the labour leader saying he wants things to move pretty quickly once
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the prime minister gets home. we know that she is travelling to dublin tomorrow to meet the irish prime minister, leo varadkar, because that issue of the irish backstop is so fundamental. the government assays that are the only deadline it is giving for the vote to happen is on the 21st of january. ministers in the house of in is a's absence were defending her decision to travel abroad. i think anybody who has observed my right honourable friend, the prime minister, in action both in her current office and the other offices she has held over the years will be in no doubt about her commitment to parliamentary accountability, whatever the cost to her in terms of the time that you, sir, rightly, should say that she should be spending — and she accepts she should spend — in answering questions from colleagues in every party, in every corner of this house. that question remains whether she
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can get anything substantial enough to serve swayed the dup and those on the inside. there was some talk today of conservative mps putting in a sufficient number of letters, expressing no confidence in the prime minister. what is your understanding of that? we've been here before, with lots of rumours circulating about reaching that crucial number, but 48. that would be enough to trigger a vote of no—confidence in the premised that she would have to win if she were to stay on as the leader of the conservative party. lots of mps are saying that they feel they are close to that number. we've been here before, but it does feel different this time. number of people having said that they are billing to put that letter to sir grain brady, the
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chair of the committee. only he knows, of course. he previously did say that the bonus that should expect to be in the country if she we re expect to be in the country if she were to be told that they reach that number. everybody wondering what the truth is about all of that. there does feel like the anger on the conservative benches on what's been going on. the former conservative chancellor and brexit supporter lord lamont is here. let's hope we get some peace at a top here. i'm wondering, what are the prospects of the prime minister coming back from the strip today with something many film which would satisfy you and some of your colleagues? i think she needs to come back with a significant automation, and probably something thatis automation, and probably something that is legally binding. there was talk this morning of the protocol which wouldn't be in the withdrawal agreement but would be legally
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binding. isure agreement but would be legally binding. i sure it is by themselves will not be enough. it needs to be something firm. the key point about the irish backstop is the inability to get out of it. if the exit mechanism for getting out where all told, i think that would relieve a lot of anxiety about this whole agreement. although there are many other things that people object to, they would then become temporary and could be accepted because there would be an end to them eventually. you know how the system works. what are the prospects of the prime minister, in your view, are the prospects of the prime minister, in yourview, getting are the prospects of the prime minister, in your view, getting that scale of change? many eu negotiations go on and giotto, this is the final deal, there would be any change. it wouldn't be the first time that that proved to be empty rhetoric and the so—called final deal was the ultimate deal. we may see this run after christmas. i didn't think it will be over in a
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few days. but that make you nervous? of course it makes me nervous. i wonder what confidence in the market but there is no avoiding it, i'm afraid. the prime minister pushes it was the 21st of january, is a man becomes a bit of a binary choice. the prospect of no deal, or this deal, possibly no brexit at all. what would be your view then?|j think what would be your view then?” think it would be a binary choice. this deal before the defects, or no deal. although i could no dealfor businesses option, i think it's been heavily demonised. with proper preparation, i think we could prepare for it i don't think it would be catastrophic, as people have been saying. you are wild a transition period under the rules, so transition period under the rules, so everything could remain the same
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for a while. colleagues of yours think that a few months is nothing like long enough to the will of the challenges of brexit. the real difficulty is that the government has been saying, it is this deal was oi’, has been saying, it is this deal was or, in the kitchen chaos. there may have to, and say, we've prepared for this motherwell, and it be so bad. what what's your view on the balance of options therefore your colleagues? some of whom are clearly more identity of money were yesterday or the day before for some kind of challenge to the prime minister. the problem with the challenge is that it's going to take time, even with an accelerated timetable. when days matter, i'm not sure we can afford that luxury. secondly, the parameter might win a vote of no—confidence. secondly, the parameter might win a vote of no-confidence. so, well then? do you take the view, in the second we're in, web you would like
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to see a change of leader?” second we're in, web you would like to see a change of leader? i was implying it's a bit of a diversion. at the end of this process, do you think a change of leadership would be ideal? i'm not arguing for a change in leadership, our mind going for a change in policy. lots of the criticism has been about how the government has handled the process. has been confident, organise, possessing a free kick sends? what's your view on that? the irish border has become the premise on which everything is built. it shouldn't dominate as mad as it has. secondly, i think the government has have a brexit that satisfies not just the 5296, brexit that satisfies not just the 52%, but the 48% as well. that could be done. in trying to strike that balance, and you accept that the prime minister has come up with a hybrid deal that is trying to please all camps? ultimately, is that
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possible? i don't think the hybrid solution works. possibly, the prime minister thought it was all about immigration. it's not all about innovation for leavers. we need a good economic solution. notjust a solution that is politically convenient. when the prime minister goes to dublin tomorrow, what should you be asking the taioseach to do? what you think you would be prepared to do beyond four su assurances around the backstop? personally, what is a backstop? and a backstop is an insurer is a policy. why should we've an insurance policy against think the government is legally binding. the taioseach has said there will never be a hard border, even as there is no deal. why do we've this convoluted backstop, which seems to be another
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word for guaranteed ? backstop, which seems to be another word for guaranteed?” backstop, which seems to be another word for guaranteed? i don't understand it. the eu says it very clearly, given this will be a frontier, that is non—negotiable. it's the eu that wants a hard border, nobody else wants it. they see it as part of what is necessary. they may have their reasons. what if we've a free trade but that free trade agreement, that doesn't arise. this strong phrase from brussels, never stop, no agreement, this strong phrase from brussels, neverstop, no agreement, no this strong phrase from brussels, never stop, no agreement, no brexit deal that britain can swallow. do you think that's false? ‘s sometimes in the past, we've seen the eu take radical positions. john clwyd junkers, this morning said, will see what we can do to facilitate betting passing. , two room do think they've? i don't think they've a lot, this is a tall order. do you think the premise though, she that
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that do you think the parameter with a —— comeback with a deal that your collea g u es a —— comeback with a deal that your colleagues can support? i think that's difficult. but you don't think it's likely? i think it's very difficult. is the eu don't want to have the position of having no deal. any more than the people in this country. undoubtably, there are a lot of people nervous about it. partly, it's the governments fault because it hasn't been seen to be preparing properly. certainly, if the common equity move to wto terms, the common equity move to wto terms, the government was at the wife of behind it. thank you forjoining us. later in the programme, we will be talking to gina miller. a prominent
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activist that was part of that legal case, giving parliament the right to vote on the side of the brexit processes stop we will talk to her later on. the question of preventing it hard border between northern ireland and the republic with the so—called backstop agreement is probably the most controversial part of the prime minister's get brexit plan. the dup says the withdrawal agreement leaves northern ireland following different rules to the uk. some parties in northern ireland ta ke some parties in northern ireland take a different view to that. many businesses think that they are very keen to avoid any kind of new trade barriers. our ireland correspondent chris page reports. it's difficult to tell where it is, but it's easy to see how it's affected the brexit process. the irish border has been the most difficult issue for negotiators to resolve. the sticking point is the backstop, an arrangement to ensure there will be no checks on the land frontier, even if trade talks aren't successful. under the backstop, there would be
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some checks on goods coming across the irish sea from great britain into northern ireland, because this part of the uk would continue to follow rules of the eu single market. a number of mps argue that would mean the united kingdom would not be so united, one of the main reasons why this deal has run into so much political trouble. whether they transport products by land, sea orair, businesses say they need the uncertainty to end. the boss of this haulage firm said the lack of clarity is crippling. the politicians have displayed themselves in a very poor light, at this moment in time, our confidence in them as decision—makers at this time is at an all—time low. we run a business. if we ran it as they run parliament, we would be out of business. most political parties here opposed brexit, as did 56% of voters in the referendum. four parties who campaigned to remain have come together with the joint message of — back the backstop.
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they say the prime minister should protect it, no matter what happens now. she's been sent off now in search of unicorn brexit which doesn't exist, and we all have to wait with the continuing uncertainty and instability. so should the eu soften its position on the backstop? some would say that would make a deal more reachable. people are not recognising that the eu are there to negotiate for them, not for us. the uk government is there to put our case. northern ireland's biggest party has a different slogan — bin the backstop. the democratic unionists, whose ten mps keep theresa may in power, say she has to radically change strategy. this is a prime minister whojust seems to find a brick wall and beat her head against it. she did the same last week with the legal opinion. up to the last minute, she resisted it, got a bloody nose as a result from parliament, and then gave in. and she seems to be doing the same again. the disagreements, debates and disputes have been going on for two and a half years, but this border is still the biggest barrier on the road to brexit.
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chris page, bbc news, belfast. i'm here with gina miller. good to see you. we're battling against the trials. we've just been talking toward the mod, we think that that he doesn't think there will be significant changes from today's talk. what is your reading of thing today? i think there is no surprise. everyone has got to their guns and said this is the only deal. what mrs may has done, those that are in the norway camp, those who think it should go back, she can now say, i've tried, i've gone back and this is the only deal on the table. talking about who is the assurances
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around the backstop issue, and you accept that assurances will not be enough? that the news be something legally enforceable, written in, if not to the agreement itself but as an amendment? we've to agree that this withdrawal agreement will become international treaties and we will be down by it. it's not like parliament binding on the hands of future parliament. or, like you have a new party in power suit you can overturn that the manifested. this will be international law that has to be written in. if not, it has no legal weight. do to be written in. if not, it has no legalweight. do you to be written in. if not, it has no legal weight. do you accept that people have a valid concern that the uk could be topped by this backstop condition? absolutely. you could not write it with deal. ironically, this gives away parliamentary sovereignty. this is an agreement of the budget, not one that anyone
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should sign up to. it is the worst of all deals. so you think people should get another say in the matter? i've always said that parliament should resolve this. it's why i thought for parliament. i can't see any outcome that will create a solution to this. if the kind by the 21st of january, then it has to be put back to the people. we cannot carry on with this weight. were wasting money and time and in all of this. the rest of the world is looking at us and thinking, what is looking at us and thinking, what is going on? this country we used to respect is in chaos. parliament is now ina respect is in chaos. parliament is now in a position to... but that last week was a very significant, it's giving parliament a different kind of role in this entire process. you think that this current hostage issue and the house of commons has the means to make instruction, therefore, people should get their own sake? i think what the mps need
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to do is, while they make this phrase, there is no majority in parliament for the deal. they've to understand, the gully, there is no agreed outcome, then no deal is probably the only legal outcome. they've to wake up to that. they've contracted it to a place where they can agree to something the majority. at the moment, there is no majority for anything in that house. it's a bit of a challenge for people who have said all along, we should be respecting the result of 2016 and respecting the result of 2016 and respecting the result of 2016 and respecting the fact that was the democratic mandate given to government. you'll save yourself. —— yorked said it yourself. it's a big lea p yorked said it yourself. it's a big leap for people to say the need to bea leap for people to say the need to be a second—hand of exercise, when the first one hasn't delivered on the first one hasn't delivered on the result. i've been round the country. the majority of the people do not trust politicians of this house. they want to have the final
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say. every poll shows it. it's not necessarily, we can't predict the outcome. people are saying, give us a chance to finally have a say on that. you'd been said many times, the reason you want it because you think that a good chance of getting rid of brexit once and for all. they've said. always said, this is about an informed choice. i think people should know all options and other people have their views. we've to draw a line under this. how on earth are we going to get out of this mess? we can't carry on like this mess? we can't carry on like this for years, we've to have a final say, draw a line under it and absolutely agreed to move on. there's a lot of abuse being directed at you personally, is that still going on? the death threats are ata still going on? the death threats are at a premium at a moment. it's
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extraordinarily. for somebody to stand up and have their say. this is the, was, on in parliament, is happening because i admitted my time, safety, money, and my belief that limit is sovereign. but that because i invested my time. the crowd behind me, are being on the size of the godman. still a very strong pro—brexit concluded today. and those that are against the entire process. as we arrived today, is there to say, feelings were running even more hype than yesterday. there was a bit of an intensity in the shouting and campaigning today. our thanks to a gina millerand campaigning today. our thanks to a gina miller and local mod. —— lord lamont. tony connelly is the europe editor for ireland's public broadcaster rte — and is in brussels for us now. beyond all be some bikes, what
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leeway do you did it for more than the old reassurance for mrs may today? the eu has been crystal clear that they cannot reopen the withdrawal agreement. it clear that other have been signals that the eu would be prepared to offer some kind of side declaration or letter of intent. that would spell out that the backstop is not necessarily something that is permanent. it's not something that all sides want to see in place. it's there as an insured and policy. clearly, they will have to work carefully to do that. it's not clear from will have to work carefully to do that. it's not clearfrom my vantage point that they will have time to do that ahead of the european council this week. eu leaders, meeting on thursday and friday. donald tusk,
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the european council president, have let it to the fact that they will have to discuss brexit. so far, no doubt has been proposed by the british side. theresa may has been making love or correct and angle before coming to brussels this —— theresa may has been meeting mark ripped and angela merkel. theresa may cannot deliver promises to parliament. i suspect that to reason me is somehow playing for time. let that cook for a while. we've seen that cook for a while. we've seen that there will not be another vote, potentially before the 21st of january. i think that's what her strategy could be at the moment, is of high—risk one. strategy could be at the moment, is of high-risk one. one of the issues you can maybe shed some light on. to
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what extent can mrs may get something in these next few days, including in dublin tomorrow, which is legally enforceable. something that she can say, it's baked into this agreement in some kind of way thatis this agreement in some kind of way that is legally enforceable. do you think that's beyond the these few days of talks now? i think it is a remote possibility because the legal text is closed. a declaration could amplify or clarify what is in the withdrawal agreement and what is in the political declaration. it depends on what she's looking for. there was a clue from the leader of the commons this morning andrea leadsom who said that the house of commons clued in due course get some detail if the backstop came into effect and every year that it was in play. but that would be way beyond what the eu could agree to because you would
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have an international legally binding treaty that was then held hostage by the house of commons from year to year. so the legal nature of this i think is going to be a tricky thing for both theresa may and the european union. good to talk to you. thank you. let's step away from brexit for a moment to take a look at some of today's other stories... six people claiming to be migrants from iran have been rescued from a small boat off the coast of kent. more than 100 migrants — the majority believed to be iranian — crossed the channel from france in november. the uk authorities are warning about the dangers of sailing small boats betwen calais and dover — the world's busiest shipping lane. colin campbell has this exclusive report. emerging from the darkness, an inflatable dinghy. it's 2am, we are in the middle of the english channel. the dinghy is motoring at full speed
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from france towards the kent coast. are you ok? 0k? we get the thumbs up. however, the boat is dangerously overcrowded, taking on water. the six migrants, cold, scared, desperate. but determined to get to the uk. this dinghy is in a precarious position. it's vulnerable because it's now entering the shipping lane and there are a number of ships coming towards it. so we are shepherding it, almost i think at the moment, so it remains in a safe position. we're on board a doverfishing boat. this is the third migrant rescue for skipper matthew coker in three months. there was five ships coming down in one line. and it cuts across in front of them. i don't know, if we hadn't been with him, those ships wouldn't have gone round it. because i'm only just picking him up. so i don't think they would have seen him. as you can see, there's no light on the boat at all. the migrants were wrapped in blankets and scarves,
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speaking little english. where are you from? you are iranian? iran! the water at the moment appears to be going into the back of the dinghy. but they are continuing, they're not stopping, they don't want our help. it's a desperate race to try to get to the uk for these people. although they decline our offers of help, they do stop to ask for water, which i lower down to them in a net. in the last three months, more than 100 migrants have made this treacherous crossing. translation: look, i will check the weather. you have waves in the sea. a fortnight ago, we exposed how some of the smuggling operations are being planned from the makeshift migrant camp in dunkirk. we secretly filmed using an undercover researcher. translation: a boat will cost you £3000 — £4000. i'm taking three people with me. they pay in cash. we get the boat and off we go.
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last night the weather and sea conditions in the channel were good. but in a small boat, in the dark, it's still incredibly dangerous. the message is going back to the camps or to the people on the other side, to the gangs, that it's working. so more are going to come. and i'm certain they will keep coming until there is an absolute tragedy. these migrants were safely rescued by the rnli and the border force. but it is a potentially deadly route that more and more are trying. despite winter, despite the risks, the migrants keep coming. also making headlines today... wages grew by 3.3% in the year to october — the biggest annual increase in a decade. ministers have welcomed the figures, but the tuc, which represents unions, said the pay growth was "little consolation" for workers who've experienced what it calls the "longest pay squeeze in 200 years". over the same twelve months, the number of people in work rose by 79,000 to almost 32.5 million, a record high. a paedophile has beenjailed
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for life for murdering two nine year old girls in 1986. russell bishop, who's 52, sexually assaulted and strangled nicola fellows and karen hadaway near brighton. the following year he was acquitted of what had become known as the "babes in the wood" killings. his conviction follows the discovery of new forensic evidence. police investigating allegations of mistreatment of patients at blackpool victoria hospital have arrested two more healthcare professionals. a man and a woman are being questioned on suspicion of administering a poison or noxious substance. the first arrest was made last month. back to huw at westminster. welcome back to westminster — on the day mps were meant to be taking part in the big vote —
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on the prime minister's brexit plans. but that vote has been delayed — and the prime minister is instead spending the day in european capitals — asking fellow leaders to give further assurances on the deal she's negotiated. those assurances are focused on the future of the irish border — but many conservative mps want the deal to be renegotiated. these are the day's developments so far. theresa may is currently in brussels meeting the european council president — donald tusk — we're expecting to get an update on that shortly — he said yesterday that the deal could not be renegotiated. this morning — in berlin — mrs may met the german chancellor angela merkel — who has said there is ‘no way to change' the brexit deal — this followed a meeting with the dutch prime minister — and there'll be a meeting with the irish taisoeach tomorrow. on the crucial question of when mps will get that big vote — downing street says it will take place by the 21st january — which is the final deadline for the deal to be approved. that is the last possible day it can
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happen. in the commons today — labour forced an emergency debate — on the government's handling of the debate — and jeremy corbyn is being urged by other opposition parties to engineer a vote of no confidence in the government. chris wilkins is with me , a former director of strategy and speech writer for theresa may. so what are theresa may's options now? i think she will try to get annually language from the european partners that will help her. the ideal would be some legally binding document. there has been talk of a cold sore idea, a kind of appendix to the agreement that has already been signed off. —— codicil.
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i think that is a stretch too far but could you meeting to persuade conservative mps in particular to change their mind and vote for this. because polite words are not going to do the trick? there might have been a time when that would have worked. if you wind back a few months you would have imagined getting to this point with this kind of deal and maybe parliament voting it down and then some slightly warmer words and did going to buy the second time after the mps had best save of the but the difficulty now is mps i think i've lost faith and trust in effectively the centre and trust in effectively the centre and that is because the way that negotiations i think i've been good. a failure to reach a more obviously on the part of number ten to some more moderate conservative and labour mps more moderate conservative and labourmpsi more moderate conservative and
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labourmps i think more moderate conservative and labour mps i think has destroyed a bit of the trust that was there. i think what the way the system has gone, there has been a sense in which number ten since the election have been living day—to—day trying to get through every day without any big strategy, any thinking ahead and recognising that rather than playing up recognising that rather than playing up to the likes ofjacob rees—mogg, actually the majority was more in the centre ground of parliament with those moderates and conservative labour mps. the prime minister has been badly advised? it would be better i think to have recognised the way this was going and put in place a strategy to reach out to those kind of groups. and what does that say about her own political instincts are would she not instinctively have thought that that was the right course? it is a very difficult situation and especially after the election. it was quite confused picture and not the
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situation anyone wanted to be in. you are then at the point of thinking how you get through the day, the week. she has been focused on getting the deal and bring it back and i think the deal but she brought back was as good a deal as you could've expected in the circumstances. but the political handling has been the problem. that is an important point about the nature of the deal and going back to that speech at lancaster house from the prime minister, many would say she's in that bothered because she boxed or serving in that speech and lay down those red lines and conditions precisely to please some in the conservative party. and thereby laying the trap that later she would walk into as these people see it. i know that people say that, i have a different interpretation. i think lancaster house was the starting point of the two—year negotiation process and it was not the end point. it was always the
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opening gambit. in any negotiation you start with the maximum bet you wa nt you start with the maximum bet you want and then recognise as you go through that you're going to compromise and find middle ground. if you are buying a house we negotiate to find a middle ground on price. so i find it strange that people say that lancaster house was the final deal, it was only a starting point. do you think that this will come back in some form in the new year, is that the kind of timing you would be looking at and if it is not to do with legally enforcea ble if it is not to do with legally enforceable additions of some kind, do you think that the deal then will fail? i think now it is difficult to see how it could go through because of that loss of trust. i think the prime minister will bring it back and get some movement from her european partners and i think that the vote will take place injanuary. but then if it does not go through
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at that point i think the prime minister has got to think about what some people here are demanding, a second referendum to let the people have their say. thank you very much. the prime minister has been in brussels having those talks today with a multitask and others. she has just been speaking and i understand she is that the ambassador ‘s residence in brussels. this is what she had to say. reports tonight that the aetiology says there are enough letters to trigger a no—confidence vote in your leadership. what i've been to the here in europe over the past day is doing what i promised parliament i would do, to speak to other leaders in europe about the concerns that parliament have raised about the backstop. and i had breakfast with prime minister mark rutte, i saw angela merkel over
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lunch, i'm meeting with donald tusk this evening and there is a shared determination to deal with the issue and address this problem. i would going to be seeing the taoiseach leo varadkar tomorrow and then returning to the eu council on thursday. the deal we have negotiated is a deal that honours the referendum and is the best deal available and indeed the best deal available and indeed the only deal available. the backstop which is the issue that parliament has raised, the backstop isa parliament has raised, the backstop is a necessary parliament has raised, the backstop is a necessary guarantee parliament has raised, the backstop is a necessary guarantee for the people of northern ireland and whatever outcome you want, whatever relationship with europe in the future, there is no deal available but does not have the backstop within it. we do not want the backstop to be used and if it is we wa nt backstop to be used and if it is we want to make sure it isjust temporary and it is those assurances that i will be seeking over the coming days. so no, you have not been told about these 48 plus letters ? been told about these 48 plus letters? i have been here in europe dealing with the issue are promised
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parliament i would be dealing with which is the backstop in northern ireland and the backstop for northern ireland, talking to fellow leaders about concerns that parliament have raised. i've seen shared determination to deal with the issue. the backstop is a guarantee to the people of northern ireland but we want to know it can only be temporary if brought into use and it is those assurances that i will be seeking in the coming days. but we've had this emphatic commitment from brussels that nothing will be negotiated again and given that and the fact that you have not been able to put the withdrawal agreement to the vote in the commons, will you be stepping up the commons, will you be stepping up the no deal preparations now? we have already stepped up no deal preparations, that has been happening in recent days. but cabinet will be discussing what is the sensible thing for government to do, to make sure that those contingency arrangements are in place. so we will be looking at what further more we need to do in
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relation to those no deal preparations. but what i'm discussing with european leaders and will continue to discuss is how we can provide that assurance that the backstop for northern ireland, where that to be used, we need certainty that to be used, we need certainty that it that to be used, we need certainty thatitis that to be used, we need certainty that it is only temporary. any idea at the end of today whether we are any closer to a date with about to be put to the house of commons as you might what i have started today is the discussions with other fellow leaders in europe about the issue. of course we do have the 21st of january date that we reference to which parliament has set and so we need to look at the issue before then. but we're just at the start of and discussions. thank you. the prime minister there just a short time ago. john trickett is with us,
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shadow labour minister. the prime minister is trying to get more assurances around this agreement. if she succeeds with that bring more of your colleagues on board ? she succeeds with that bring more of your colleagues on board? there was a referendum, ithink your colleagues on board? there was a referendum, i think the people gave us a clear instruction to find a way to brexit but not in a damaging way which would damage the unity of the country and cause problems with the economy. this is not what is on offer and i feel the prime minister is on a mission impossible this evening and probably tomorrow. she looks as if she's trying to find a way to present a package in a new way, a package which is not going to work and will not convince parliament or the country. i'm afraid it looks as though this is aiming to the endgame. even if some of the assurances can be made legally enforcea ble assurances can be made legally enforceable and baked into the agreement in some way? enforceable and baked into the
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7ii enforceable and baked into the agreement in some way? i do not think the agreement works. it is damaging for northern ireland, i think everyone knows that. one of the great achievements of british statecraft was what happened in northern ireland and now we have failing reddish statecraft on a colossal scale and we cannot put up with what has happened in northern ireland. —— failing british statecraft. this feels slightly high—handed on the part of the prime minister, not carrying people with. and from the beginning once she lost a majority she needed to adopt a different style. mps will be under a lot of rasher if this boat is not held until january, lot of rasher if this boat is not held untiljanuary, we are approaching the 21st of january and people are getting nervous about the whole process. what is your sense of bad timing and what will happen if she comes back in the first two weeks of january with little time
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left? the key thing for the moment and let's see where she gets too. we have got to come back, there has not been a vote in parliament, it should have been tonight. let's see where we get in january. have been tonight. let's see where we get injanuary. there are a number of different options and what we should say is parliament will not allow us to crash out with the kind of disastrous consequences which might arise. but we are running out of time and i sometimes wonder if there is a shrewd calculation on the pa rt there is a shrewd calculation on the part of theresa may, if she gets close enough to the cliff edge that we will vote for a bad deal out of here. but that is not going to happen. given what happened yesterday and what was meant to happen tonight as you say, can you now see circumstances for a second vote of the people, a second referendum which may be two or three weeks ago you would not have seen? we not ruling that out, it is quite
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possible there will be. it feels as though we're moving on from where we are, we have to have about once we've seen a deal and i think that the country expects us not to play party politics but to listen to what she has to say and then make a decision of that it feels as if we're moving on into another phase. thank you. and just a thought on this deal and what the public reception of the deal is. to what extent reception of the deal is. to what exte nt d oes reception of the deal is. to what extent does the public respond to the various elements of the deal that theresa may has negotiated with the eu. no better person to talk to about the state of public opinion thanjohn about the state of public opinion than john curtice, professor of politics at strathclyde university. what can you tell us about public perception of the deal but theresa may is proposing? the problem for the prime minister is she struggling to gain the support of mps and also she has had little success in
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gaining the support of the wider public. we have had half a dozen opinion polls in the last for five days on the subject addressing the issue in different ways. asking if it isa issue in different ways. asking if it is a good or bad deal but roughly speaking only around one in five people support the deal and think it is going to be good. the problem for the prime minister is that this is not just the prime minister is that this is notjust simply the prime minister is that this is not just simply fuelled by the views of remaining voters who perhaps she might never have expected to win over to her deal. the problem is these are also the views of leave voters and they are almost as critical as remaining voters. and so far watches try to say to mps is on trying to fulfil the mandate that believe vote gave us two years ago but the problem is the very people who voted that way for the most part are saying this is not a deal in
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which we have any confidence. when we look then possible adjustments or changes to it, what are people saying about the kind of range of changes that are possible which might sway them in either direction, do we have any sense of that? the truth is the focus at westminster is on this very particular issue of the backstop. apart from polling in northern ireland itself were ironically the backstop does not seem ironically the backstop does not seem to be that unpopular, not least because of the views of the nationalist population, but on the side of the water bill has been very little polling on the specifics of the deal and certainly not on the issue of northern ireland. what you need to realise here is that probably many leave voters. the first thing is that they're listening to boris johnson, jacob rees—mogg, and hearing they do not like it. the second is at the end of the day there are still this distaste for the kind of brexit that theresa may has in mind that stems
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from the chequers agreement back in july. many leave voters either want to leave without a deal or at least what they want is to head for a kind of free trade agreement. and what theresa may is arguing for and says that she has in mind is a sufficiently far away from that vision of many leave voters that at the end of the day at least half of them are now saying i do not want this deal. so the problem is it is not just the details this deal. so the problem is it is notjust the details of this deal. so the problem is it is not just the details of the this deal. so the problem is it is notjust the details of the backstop but much more broadly the direction in which theresa may wants to take this long—term relationship with the eu. and that is one that many leave voters do not wish to endorse. are we any position today to say anything about public perceptions of the possibility of a second vote, ? we are and the truth is some opinion polls are in favour of that and
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others say the majority are against it. it depends on how you ask the question. if you ask whether people should have the final say and crucially you do not specify what the options might be on the ballot paper, sometimes you get quite substantial majorities in favour. ask people if they want another referendum between remain or leave a number of holes say there are still majority against. the idea of a second referendum is primarily something that appeals to the remaining voters because they think it might be a mechanism whereby brexit‘s might be reversed. i think it is difficult to argue that this is something over which there is any clear consensus. something that many leave voters would be disappointed m, leave voters would be disappointed in, is ending up with a second referendum. many thanks. let's
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consider the option that theresa may subbing for, this possible additional note to the withdrawal agreement and talk more about this with professor elaine fahy from city university in london. this potentially for lots of people is a slightly complex notion of adding something to an agreement that is already in place. is it practical? absolutely, there is an immense history of adding prodigals and declarations in eu law. a host of situations where this can be done and it is legally possible absolutely to add in text at any stage but the question is how much it can negate the contents of the text. and then it depends on the political will to do that. do you detect the will is there or not? well the member states have to vote for this withdrawal agreement by qualified majority. there is some
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disagreement but legally it is possible to get through by qualified majority to make stage —— to make changes but the question is will the changes but the question is will the changes alter what has been agreed. leo varadkar has been very clear in saying if we reopen this agreement for this one issue then people must realise that the entire thing is reopened. was that realistic orjust a threat? it is a realistic proposition given the immense scale of substance that is involved in such an agreement. it is possible to see how legally these issues can be opened up but politically it is a very wide—ranging idea. opened up but politically it is a very wide-ranging idea. when we look at the issue of trying to make an agreement more credible for some of these conservative mps, by including an element which is to do with
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something that is legally enforcea ble something that is legally enforceable how long would it take to negotiate like that? there is a view that what has been agreed, it can simply be changed to northern ireland specific idea which does not sound especially onerous or difficult. it is more the political controversy of opening up the entire thing just to get this particular thing just to get this particular thing established. is it your reading of the agreement that the backstop could leave the uk vulnerable to being trapped in some kind of position for ever more is there a credibility around the arbitration process which would allow the uk to get out of it? to some extent the advice from the attorney general is very clear. the backstop is the backstop and not the temporary idea. but the question remains what powers the stormont committee would have to open up this idea and there is political concern
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about how powerful they would be. is it opening up the entire substance of what has been agreed. so it remains a very unhappy state of affairs. as an academic in years to come how do you think people will look back on this process, as an intriguing process of the weight government has handled a negotiation where the stakes are incredibly high, and interesting way in which the eu has responded, where will be the eu has responded, where will be the interest for you? well no treaty in the world does not have a whole range of prodigals. that is entirely normal in international law making. so to some extent brexit is not so much different to that butjust the sta kes a re much different to that butjust the stakes are so much higher. but as
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the process of government, as the quality of the process, to what extent will not be of interest? the transparency as to how the negotiations have been opened up, online and out there, it is quite clear how the steps have taken place so clear how the steps have taken place so in some ways it is more transparent than the average international lawmaking process. good to see you. a very lively evening on college green with a degree of understatement we could say that. sophie will be here with bbc news at six in a few minutes and are coverage continues throughout the evening. let's take a temperatures are falling across the eastern side of england now and frost already with us in parts of east anglia. in contrast much more cloud further west and temperatures will hold up at around eight or 9 degrees. we have some very heavy
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rainfora time degrees. we have some very heavy rain for a time across northern ireland, western scotland, wales and the south west of england overnight. perhaps some thought as well but the breeze starting to pick up. —— sam fogg. it looks to be quite a drab day tomorrow for parts of scotland and northern ireland. increasing amounts of sunshine across england as we start to chill the error as this south easterly digs in. colder again on thursday but something different heading our way for the weekend. more on that later. russia. the prime minister is on a whirlwind tour of europe as she tries to convince eu leaders to help save her brexit deal.
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from the netherlands to germany then brussels in a day — theresa may remains determined despite being told there's no room for the deal to be reneogotiated. what has been shown to me from those meetings is there is a shared determination to deal with this issue and address this problem. the deal we have achieved is the best deal possible, it's the only deal possible. in westminster more speculation about theresa may's leadership and whether she can survive this. we'll have the latest. also tonight: only just afloat — six migrants are rescued from the channel as they try to reach the kent coast. for the first time scientists see evidence that glaciers are melting in east antarctica, threatening a significant rise in sea levels across the globe.

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