hello, it's tuesday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. detained under the mental health act for having a learning disability and/or autism. a petition has now reached over 20,000 signatures to stop people with either being held in mental health units. it happened to the teenage autistic sons of these two mums who say the experience was deeply traumatic. the children's commissioner for england is here to listen to their stories. this programme can reveal that up to half a million women who work in supermarkets could qualify for thousands of pounds in back pay. in what might be the largest equal pay claim in british legal history, workers on the shop floor are taking their bosses to court. two of them are here. hello, iam hello, i am pam. hello, iam pam. i have worked 27 yea rs hello, iam pam. i have worked 27 years for tesco and i am disappointed are not paid equally with our male counterparts.” disappointed are not paid equally with our male counterparts. i am really disheartened to find that we do not add equal pay in the

distribution centres. my name is ellie. that's ellie and pam. do you work on the shop floor of a supermarket and could you benefit from a successful claim 7 let me know. also today, do you know if this can be recycled in your area? 0rthis? the goverment‘s new recycling strategy aims to make it consistent and straightforward and bring food waste recycling to every council, too. will it work? and some breaking news within the last half hour. manchester united have just announced that manager jose mourinho has left the club "with immediate effect". if you support manchester united, what is your reaction? hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until ”am this morning. most recent figures show 2,400 people with a learning disability or autism are being kept in mental health inpatient units — as are 250 children. they don't have mental health

problems — they have austim or a learning disbaility. we'll talk to parents of children who are stuck and ask the learning disablitiy charity mencap what on earth is going on. if this has happened to you or someone in your family, please do let me know. use the hashtag #victorialive. here's annita mcveigh with a summary of the day's news. thank you, victoria. good morning. jeremy corbyn has tabled a motion of no—confidence in the prime minister after she told parliament it would not get to vote on her brexit deal until the of january. the not get to vote on her brexit deal until the ofjanuary. the motion thatis until the ofjanuary. the motion that is unlikely to be heard with downing street sources suggesting the government will not go along with what it called silly political games. instead cabinet will discuss both of the government should ramp up both of the government should ramp up preparations for a no—deal brexit

any meeting this morning. we have been taking no deal seriously for quite some considerable period. it is not what we want to do are expected because they want to see big deal secured, the board through parliament. but it is right and proper that we maintain our work on preparing for a no deal, however relu cta ntly, preparing for a no deal, however reluctantly, with the money that the chancellor committed, the additional money of half £1 billion in the budget, as well as other work with border force stepping up their work around the border as well as other preparations as well. jose mourinho has left manchester united, the portuguese had been under pressure due to a string of

poor results. they lost 3—1 two rivals liverpool on sunday. the immigration target was originally set by david cameron but remained a conservative manifesto commitment despite having never been met. the current net migration figure stands at 273,000. tug boats are on their way to help a 16,000 tonne russian cargo ship that has run aground for the beach in cornwall. it is off the coast of farm up with the crew of eating on board but it is. there is no cargo and no sign of pollution. rules to make it easier for companies to run individual train services alongside existing franchises could come into force in the new year. the rail regulator has said it wants to create more competition by making it easier to run trains under so—called open access agreements. the office of road and rail had said that the contracts, already in place in some parts of britain's wow network, make

tickets cheaper and improve services. ajudge in the tickets cheaper and improve services. a judge in the american state of missouri has come up with a unique approach to making a hunter see the mistake he has made. as part ofa see the mistake he has made. as part of a sentence, david berry must watch walt disney classic bambi once each month during his year—long prison term after killing hundreds of the year as trophies. the cinema —— the movie has topped the poll is as one of the saddest homes in movie history after a young girl is seen viewing its mother being shot. —— young fawn. we're going to be talking about the tabloid backlash against the duchess of sussex at 10:45 this morning. meghan‘s father thomas markle has accused his daughter of "ghosting" him since she got married. and these are some recent headlines about her. what do you think about the treatment she's been getting? do get in touch with us throughout the morning. use the hashtag — #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe

want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. more than 20,000 people have now signed a government petition to stop people with autism and learning disabilities being detained in mental health units, specifally called assessment and training units, oratus. the units are supposed to be used forjust short periods, but cases have emerged of children being detained for years in such units. some are kept in isolated cells and fed through hatches. the most recent figures show 2,400 people with a learning disability and/or autism are in inpatient units, as well as 250 children. and the average length of stay? almost five and a half years. what's going on? we can talk now to leo. her son stephen is 23 and has learning disabilities and autism. he has recently come home after spending nearly six years in assessment and treatment units. she says his experiences were traumatic. isabelle garnett is also here,

her son matthew is 18. he is also autistic and has mild learning dificulties and spent months sectioned in an atu. kari gerstheimerfrom the learning disability charity mencap is also here. and children's commissioner for england anne longfield. thank you all for coming on the programme. kari gerstheimer —— leo, your son has learning disabilities and autism, why was he detained any mental health unit? the excuse was that his behaviour is too difficult to handle, there was no community placements. and because he had severe self harming, we assumed that the best place for him to go was into a mental institution. i refused to call it a hospital or a treatment

unit. my son does not need any treatment. he does not have a mental health issue or problem. therefore, health issue or problem. therefore, he should not be... he does not need to go to those sort of places. how has it been for him, in the end, he was there for six years? so, he was two years was there for six years? so, he was two yea rs in was there for six years? so, he was two years in one unit, 18 miles away from islington, and then from islington he moved to clacton on sea, another 78 miles. that one of the hardest one to get to. it can ta ke the hardest one to get to. it can take up to five hours to get there. what sort of drugs were administered to him? eight site -- eight anti—psychotic drugs. 80 different ones. this was for a young man who

did not have mental health issues. —— eight different ones. did not have mental health issues. -- eight different ones. yes, when i asked them why they were feeding my son this chemical mix, they said it was because of his self harming. if you are a self harm with severe autism, like my son, apparently that means that he is considered to be mentally ill. if we put ourselves in the position for a moment, medical professionals go into the profession to look after and care for people, to look after and care for people, to hopefully get them better. so they could have been trying to protect your son from himself, is that fair? no, it is definitely not fair. from my own experience and experience of friends of mine, we all feel that instead of helping them, they are harming them.

anti—psychotic medicines have huge implications on the immune system is and health. side effects are horrendous. we know that some people have died from taking those horrible drugs, and why should...? i am have died from taking those horrible drugs, and why should...? iam not suggesting that i am against medication, but i am against such a cocktail of drugs. in my opinion, as a mother, but also as a human being, when i expressed the stephen, i was told... i was asked rather, when i expressed the stephen, i was told... iwas asked rather, if when i expressed the stephen, i was told... i was asked rather, if you buy any chance a medical professional, a nurse, a doctor? well, you do not have to be one to

know the harm this is getting, because my thoughts when i asked these questions, the harm it was doing. i asked these questions, the harm it was doing. iasked if these questions, the harm it was doing. i asked if he was getting, why he was being given these dogs? you do not know which one is working. why are you getting all of them together to him? let me bring in kari gerstheimer, autism, mild learning difficulties and detained any mental health unit from the age of 15 and elise atus. why? the former care minister commissioned a case review of matthew's and it concluded that matthew's sectioning was predictable and preventable and concluded that it was caused by a failure injoint working between health education and social care. it also made the point that matthew's case was not isolated at all, and that actually, both leo and myself work with other families and try to

support them, and we know this is a very common pattern, that young people with autism and learning disabilities, or both, reached crisis point in the communityjust cos crisis point in the communityjust cos there are not the services available. sorry to interrupt, can i put this to you. this is from annette who has treated, it takes the opinions of two assessing doctors or psychiatrists an improved mental health professional to decide whether someone is mental ill, dinda best to themselves or others and to then detain them under the mental health act, it is not a decision taken health act, it is not a decision ta ken lightly. health act, it is not a decision taken lightly. so, if you have autism, the mental health act as it stands at the moment, it is being reviewed, but it says that autism is a mental disorder. it is not. and actually, what we are seeing is distressed behaviour that is avoidable, because of the need is not being met. and this is the case of my son who has been out now for coming up to two years. how is he

doing? amazingly. when he was in the atu, he was overmedicated, restrained, injected every two weeks, restrained by six adults and injected in the bottom with high doses of anti—psychotic medication. he is not psychotic, he is artistic. so he is distressed. the impact of those anti—psychotic drugs would be to dull him, contain him effectively. yes, what you don't get in and atu is treatment, you get seclusion and over medication and in the worst cases we have seen many examples, you get abuse and neglect. physical abuse, like my son has had. let me bring in kari gerstheimer from the charity mencap and anne longfield, the children's commissioner. are we suggesting that people need criteria to be sectioned under the mental health act forjust

having a learning disability orjust having a learning disability orjust having autism? that is correct, as the law stands. wow. that is almost unbelievable. i know. it is really tragic. so what bc is multiple failures the community. this leads to behaviours which, really, are a form of communication and an expression of the stress because needs are not properly being met in the community. and then people end up the community. and then people end up in assessment and treatment units. what do you think of that? it isa units. what do you think of that? it is a national scandal. the money is in the wrong place, there is too much money being spent on the extraordinarily expensive placements in treatment units. we are working with a family at the moment and the cost per week is £15,000. there must be more money spent on prevention. we need to see the evaluation report that nhs england has commissioned on

the government's programme of discharges from assessment and treatment units. so, the nhs england had targets, which they are about to fail to meet. the target state that they will close 35, up to 50% of these beds in assessment and treatment units by march 2019 and they are not going to even reach the bottom end of that target. and you wa nt bottom end of that target. and you want those beds to be closed because you hope it would lead to better and more appropriate care for people with severe disabilities? bed closures must be accompanied by greater investment in the community, greater investment in the community, greater investment in workforce, specialised workforce to work with people with a learning disability and or autism. anne longfield, you are the children's commissioner for england, 250 children with either a learning disability or autism, or

both, are currently detained, using the mental health act. what do you think of that? well, i think one of the things that we have just heard is that it is almost unbelievable to see how quickly this can happen. i have spoken to parents and met some last week, and heard some of these things, and they are incredibly disturbing in some ways but also shocking that any relatively short period of time, you're kind of basic requirement as a parent to ensure that your child is safe is beyond your own means, and the length of time that children are being kept its horrific, it is like the time has stood still. i am talking to the nhs, i think serious people are looking at this but the system has got to a stage where it started off in the wrong place, it has complicated itself, the money is in the wrong place and children have fallen through the gap. you come in then as the advocate, what can you do for the children? well, shining

the light on that, showing what is happening, brokering responsible people together and holding them to account, which has already started, but swiftly moving the on at pace. i would like this to be resolved over the coming months, not years, so actually individual children, general, i can help, but it is better than that, and i wanted to be resolved this time next year. it needs to be completely different. cani needs to be completely different. can i say that programmes like yourself, bbc, all of the journalist that are bringing these cases out, they are of immense help. and we wa nt they are of immense help. and we want it out there because it is like isabel said, and kari gerstheimer said, it is a shameful national scandal, it is a disgraceful way of treating our children in this country, one of the greatest countries in the world, to have this shameful, dirty secret. and

therefore, i ask parents that are going through what we have both been through, to speak out. do not hide. do not be fearful, because if you sure they are, people will abuse that. 0k, well, thank you so much for coming on the programme. rosanna says, iam for coming on the programme. rosanna says, i am artistic and have profound mental health issues. when i have been in mental health wards, it has been necessary, if not always a great experience. balance is needed. my parents could not protect me from myself and i had to be kept safe. phil says thank you for pointing out that learning disabilities and autism is not a mental health issue. we will continue to follow this. thank you for coming on this programme. do get in touch with us throughout the morning. use the hashtag — #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you, and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. still to come:

a new government strategy to tackle waste as part of plans to make recycling less confusing. but what do you think of paying a returnable deposit on bottles, cans and disposable cups? let us know. it seems hardly a day goes by without yet another critical headline about the duchess of sussex. but a few months ago, it seemed she could do no wrong. so, is the media treating her unfairly? we'll get reaction. in the past half hour, its been announced that jose mourinho has left man united. the portuguese manager has been under pressure as the club have struggled to keep up with their rivals at the top of the premier league. on sunday they lost 3—1 to rivals manchester united. 0ur correspondent john watson is salford. why has he left? that is a good question. it is a that the club has opted to make this decision now. perhaps the line in the sand was when it would be mathematically

impossible for manchester united to qualify for the champions league. perhaps that would be the point at which the club would have been pushed into making the move. but as we know, with the january transfer window around the corner, perhaps we are looking to recruitment them. whether or not they feel thatjose mourinho is not the right man to lead them into that period. but i think performances on the pitch is why the clu b performances on the pitch is why the club has decided to act. the key question that has been put tojose mourinho this season has that could any other money to get more out of the same players, a very assembled expensive squad. paul pogba has fallen out of favour, world cup winner. he was on the substitute bench for the key game at liverpool over the weekend. you would imagine he has been brought in to star in this team and the club feel it is simply not going well for manchester united at the moment and have felt that the time was to act. performances on the pitch have not been up to scratch and that has been reflected with wherever club currently a re reflected with wherever club currently are in the table, 19 points off of the league leaders liverpool, 11 points off of fourth

placed chelsea and there was a danger of not qualifying for the champions league next season through the elite, and ultimately, i think thatis the elite, and ultimately, i think that is why they have made this move. but somewhat surprising, you must look at the performances, the other team across town, manchester city under pep guardiola with the performances they have been putting in along with liverpool, manchester united are nowhere near matching that. it is clearly why they feel now with the time for him to go. who do you think will be the next manager of manchester united ? do you think will be the next manager of manchester united? the clu b manager of manchester united? the club has suggested they could bring any club has suggested they could bring a ny ca reta ker club has suggested they could bring any caretaker manager until the end of the season but we understand that will not be michael carrick, currentlyjose mourinho's will not be michael carrick, currently jose mourinho's assistant. it will not be arsene wenger, but we understand it will be an external candidate. the club have said that that will give them time to go through a fool recruitment process. economic margin that will govern the time that they need to bring in the right candidate. but you have to look around the premier league, budgeting at the bottom it a name

that be linked for them to be that he has managed to improve tottenham hotspur in the time that he has been at the club. you also wonder who else they will look to. —— mauricio pochettino at tottenham. but it will not be michael carrick. you must think that mauricio pochettino will be at the top of that list. but it is worth pointing out, jose millie newall, all the success that he has had in his career, he also won europa league and the league cup at the beginning of this time at manchester united. they qualified for the champions league last season. but there is often much made ofjose mourinho's third season at every clu b ofjose mourinho's third season at every club he has been. he has won the league title at every club he has been at. except for manchester united. yes, he has been quite grumpyfor united. yes, he has been quite grumpy for some time. thank you for that update. this programme can reveal that 500,000 supermarket workers

could qualify for thousands of pounds in back pay, in what might be the largest equal pay claim in british legal history. if you are a woman and work at tesco, asda, morrisons and sainsbury‘s, you could receive up to £20,000. lawyers say staff working on the shop floor, who are mostly women, are paid less than their male colleagues who work in warehouses. the supermarkets involved are strongly contesting the claims, and say they simply pay the market rate for very different jobs. we've got two supermarket workers here who are taking claims against their employers. pam jenkins works for tesco, and ellie christian works at asda. and from leigh day, the lawyers bringing their case, is solicitor kiran daurka. kiran daurka, you think the figures could be as high as 500,000 workers entitled to a back pay? on average we think that is the loss for each store worker that works on an hourly basis for the four big supermarkets. how have you got that figure? basis for the four big supermarkets.

how have you got that figure7m basis for the four big supermarkets. how have you got that figure? it is based on those implied by those big supermarkets. pamela, hello. how long have you worked at tesco britton 27 years. i work nights, i start at ten in the evening ride through to 6am. i get the stock from the warehouse from the cages that the warehouse from the cages that the distribution mean load up. we ta ke the distribution mean load up. we take it to our section and have to break it down because there is everything in these pages from all aspects of the store. we break it down and put it onto the shelf and interact with the customers as well. how much more to those blokes who worked in the distribution and where errors are and warehousing errors earn compared to do? between £1 and £3 more than others. but you do differentjobs. £3 more than others. but you do different jobs. yes, we do a similar job but it is different. they load up job but it is different. they load up the cages in the warehouse and we

have to unload them on the shop floor, put them on the shelves. we also to tag the high—value stock. and face—to—face with the customers. you deserve a double pay for that, don't you? certainly at the weekends! ellie, hello. hello. let me read this tesco statement, we work hard to make sure our employees are paid well. how long have you been working as that? two years. when you discovered that men in the distribution, mostly men, in the distribution, mostly men, in the distribution areas were being paid how much more than new...? £1, up to £3 per hour. how did you feel? it should be equal. you argue that you are doing the same equaljob to

them? there are clearly differences. yes, but the stuff that comes into us, we have to be zaurus because it is not up to the standard that it should be when it comes in. yes. brian on the e—mail says that... i wish to state that meals that like myself work in such supermarkets and deserve to be paid the same rate as we re deserve to be paid the same rate as were starr. you would agree with that? yes. my job might not be as physical, but the mental stress with operating the tilt is tiring and i believe that we should be doing the same rate of pay. this person text mining has said they are different jobs and different here. it angers me that they suggest they are doing the same work. it is harder physically in the warehouse. men and women are paid the same in the warehouse. i am women are paid the same in the warehouse. i am sure women are paid the same in the warehouse. i am sure that they are paid the same in the store. we are

not suggesting that we do the same job but we contribute equally to the profits of tesco, or the supermarket profits. these contribute to the tesco profit. how do you argue about that, kiran daurka? there are clearly differences. palm has made a point that we contribute equally to the profits of tesco. but the city equal pay claim, equal pay for equal work but it is not the same, is it? well, if you have just explained, there is additional demands placed on the store workers on the front line. last week, a survey was released that suggested that the gross retail, shop workers this 253 assaults, every day to effect the people are assaulted. there are with the public. wendy has said that i work with the supermarket on a petrol station. they get paid the same as customer assistance as chicken operators but have much more responsibility. we have to serve

customers, the stock from the store, record and deal with paperwork and he was health and safety on the forecourt, monitor levels of fuel, open and close the car arch, and so on. “— open and close the car arch, and so on. —— open and close the garage. this is the book to someone who just so this is the book to someone who just so that the till. it is notjust sitting at the till, we are face—to—face with the customers as well. as you have said that our hourly rates at the same for male and female colleagues in store and this is the same in our depots. pay rates and stores differ from distribution centres because the demands of the jobs in stores and distribution centres are very different. they operate in different market sectors and we paid a different market lead in the sectors regardless of gender. what do you think will happen? the supermarkets are fighting and it could take years to work through the system? it could but we are ready to talk to them. we hope that they value their employees, the biggest assets, and we are ready to resolve it before

next christmas. ok, so you're suggesting that you delay the inevitable and it is sorted now? yes, ido inevitable and it is sorted now? yes, i do not want to stress again, but in 1970 the equal pay act came into play, there should have been sorted them. our supermarkets doing good practice at the moment? some are on top of this and are paying distributions that the same as shop workers. ok. and you have said that the supermarkets can afford it? well, with the profits they have had over 30 years of underpaying woman on the shop floor. they have been benefiting from that all that time. 0ne viewer has said that the hope that these women blues the attempts because the two jobs are different. another said that i work in a warehouse with very few access to get to work. lifting things in the

browser is much more physically demanding than working in store. thank you all for coming on the programme. happy christmas. the government is launching its waste strategy for england today. as part of it, there are plans to get businesses and us as consumers to take more responsibility for how we dispose of everyday items. the strategy will make it easier for people to know what they can recycle wherever they live in the country, with more consistent schemes from council to council. there'll also be more pressure on businesses to make products more sustainable to start with. if the plans go ahead, the 5p plastic bag charge in shops could be increased, and every home will have food waste collections. "do not flush" will become mandatory on baby wipe packaging, and some single use plastics like straws, cotton buds and stirrers will be banned. to talk more about this with us this morning are richard kirkman, the chief technology and innovation officer at waste

managmeet company veolia. karen cannard, who is a recycling blogger in somerset and julie brown, who is the owner of loose, which is a plastic—free shop in gloucestershire, where customers are encouraged to bring their own containers. lets get reaction from you. what do you think of these proposals?” think this is the lodestar for recycling. we have had nothing happening forfive recycling. we have had nothing happening for five years and now we're going to reinvent recycling across the whole country, which is very good. there's been a lack of policy direction but the government has worked hard and consulted and that we have across government bind

toa that we have across government bind to a proper strategy recommending some great things such as increased food waste, deposit return systems. it isa food waste, deposit return systems. it is a great start. karen? i think it is great. it is about time we are at this point where we are looking at this point where we are looking at the materials collected across the country and also research that the country and also research that the producer takes far more responsibility for investing in material collection and recycling and the design at the very start. what do you think of that, richard? there was more responsibility on the manufacturing end. this will shift the cost from general taxation to people that produce materials in the first place, they were passed onto consumers which is a good thing because you will make a decision when you buy things, to not buying packaging were not tying things that

are of the package, and it puts design and as a producer is to redesign packaging. keller is what yourjob redesign packaging. keller is what your job involves. redesign packaging. keller is what yourjob involves. reconnect when the waste is produced back with industry. so, milk bottles we will ta ke two industry. so, milk bottles we will take two east london and make them back into milk bottles. it is our job to collect waste back to resources . job to collect waste back to resources. karen, in terms of the retu rna ble resources. karen, in terms of the returnable bottles, the deposit system, i know it happened in the old days, i remember my mum doing it. explain how that will work and whether you think it will change people'sbehaviour because that is key, isn't it? the deposit system is a great example of what richard's talking about when you shift the financial burden for dealing with waste back to producers, they will change the design of what they produce, and they are going to start

thinking about having to collect that waste so that they can turn it back into their products. deposit syste m back into their products. deposit system is a good example that approach. as consumers when we buy a can or bottle we will pay a small deposit upfront and when we take it back to a huge network of return points we will get that back and at the back end of that system you will see a huge amount of good quality materials that people like richard and drinks manufacturers can turn back into cans and bottles so we are shifting into a secondary market, which is what we should be doing. karen, everybody was shocked by the spotlight on plastic simulations for example but even that was not enough for many people do change their behaviour when it comes to recycling. why do we have to be pushed into it like this?” recycling. why do we have to be pushed into it like this? i think the attitudes to environmental taxes are changing. there was a challenge,

on bbc radio sussex, why do we keep having to do stuff? partly it is because we are used to others having to do it for us, and we have to play our own part, will we are, producers or whether we are consumers that product. when it comes to plastic, there has been much confusion across there has been much confusion across the country, because different local authorities collect different plastics. what i always say to anybody who isn't sure is to check with your local council. don't worry what is happening in the council next to you, just focus on europe council. and there's that comes to district level, not county level, where there have been differences in the past, it is important that you focus on your local council. the websites are available and the

majority of us own smartphones where you can get recycling officers available at the end of your own or twitter and facebook. that helps to ease that confusion if you knew who to ask. asking about the plastics that are in front of us in the studio here. people use that as an excuse not to do as much recycling as they can. which of these are recycling? the complexity of plastic is that there are lots of different polymers, and they are as different as metal and paper. generally speaking the bottles are nearly always collected by local authorities, they are very re cycla ble. authorities, they are very recyclable. pots and pans and trays are sometimes collected by local authorities and brougham, quite rarely. —— film is quite rarely collected. you have to look on the website to see which boyle and which

plastic. they need to stop putting it in the sea, this material, that is what we are talking about. the carrier bag is a good example. we have seen 15 billion less of them being used. that is an example of another thing we can be thinking about as well as recycling, we can also work to reduce it, which is important. tesco one metre long life milk carton, a cardboard carton out 0verton waxy plastic with a solar panel interior. what about feral? the short answer about foil is that it can be recycled. if it has got food contamination on it it will prevent it being recycled so people need to remove food and that is why the government strategy has food waste collection in it, everything else is left it dry and recyclable if we collect the boot properly.

thank you for coming on the programme “— thank you for coming on the programme —— if we collect the food properly. there is much more about this on the bbc news website including an explainer the white plastic recycling is confusing. it is really useful and helpful. the cabinet's meeting as we speak to discuss how ready, or otherwise, we are to leave the eu with no deal. meanwhile, the government has dismissed the labour leader jeremy corbyn's demand for a no—confidence vote in theresa may, and challenged him to call for a no confidence motion in her government instead. if that happened, and was passed, it would trigger a general election. that would be within two weeks. norman smith is in downing street for us, where that cabinet meeting is under way. if they decide no—deal preparations have to be stepped up, can we take

that as the cabinet verdict that her deal will fail in january? that as the cabinet verdict that her dealwill fail in january? not quite, but what we can take is a growing concern that may be where we are now heading because we're only 101 days from brexit bay. so time is getting pretty short. mrs may's decision to delay the vote on her brexit deal until mid—january, that further cracks down the time if her deal gets voted down, which most people think it will. that only leaves you about two months and the harsh truth is there would be no time to come up with any plan b, never the that mrs may seems to have been pulling out all of the other options, whether it be a second referendum, or whether it be the norway option or whatever, she was dead set on her deal. the question is, what happens if, as seems likely, it goes down? the answer is that we are tiptoeing ever closer to

no—deal. what is interesting is, if you listen to the hardline brexiteers, who a few days ago they we re brexiteers, who a few days ago they were trying to oust mrs may, now that are rallying round behind the prime minister, not behind the deal but behind the prime minister and wide? because they have also calculated that if mrs may's deal goes down they can see a head then the finishing line of no—deal. so did they thereafter the first time, cbs, hard—headed decisions being taken cbs, hard—headed decisions being ta ken about cbs, hard—headed decisions being taken about no—deal. andrea leadsom, one of the leading cabinet brexiteers has floated the idea run managed no—deal, which means that we give the eu money to give us more that we can get our act together on no—deal. here she was leaving home this morning. morning, mrs leadsom. are you supporting a no—deal brexit? we are preparing for all eventualities, we're certainly not intending to have a no—deal brexit, but parliament does need to vote for a deal, otherwise the legal default position is we will head

for no deal in march 2019. is a managed no deal an option? in my view, it certainly is, if all else fails, but what we're trying for is the prime minister's deal and she's working very hard on making that — addressing the concerns that have been expressed by all parliamentarians. thanks very much. but isn't the prime minister's deal dead in the water? no, it certainly isn't. why not? see you. see you later. you know there is no parliamentary majority for it. 0n suspicion of many at westminster is that this is all part of mrs may's grand game plan. in other words, to push it right to the wire so that mps, when they have to decide whether they are going to vote against her deal in the middle of january, will have to calculate, doi of january, will have to calculate, do i really want to take that risk if the alternative is crashing out

of the eu without any sort of agreement at all, and all of the risks that might entail for business and jobs. there is a view that this is mrs may playing hardball and pushing it to the wire. joining me now to talk about labour's position is the shadow international trade and business minister, bill esterson. when will you call a motion of no—confidence in the government? when will you call a motion of no-confidence in the government? be what about on the prime minister's deal so we can demonstrate how little support there is only in parliament. what norman was saying exactly right. it was due to be voted on on the 11th of december, now it will be the 13th of january at the earliest. that is not good enough. the prime minister is running down the clock. yesterday we put forward a vote of no—confidence in the prime minister, to highlight the fact that she is delaying it and uploading it and acting in her

pa rty‘s interest uploading it and acting in her party's interest when she should be acting in the national interest. —— uploading it. when will you put forward a vote of no—confidence the government? i'm asking you this week when you're going to do it. we will get that at the right time. you don't know when? i am not going to sit here today because there are discussions going on elsewhere. do you know and you are not say or do you know and you are not say or do you not know? i have no doubt that it will happen but the vote that matters is the boat on the prime minister's deal. —— the vote. the deal does not work. look into the far distance, it can't be right. fudge—macro if the deal was voted down on january 13, is

fudge—macro if the deal was voted down onjanuary13, is that when labour will launch the no—confidence motion in the government? she could bring that matter when this week, the three more days this week when we could have a vote on the deal and we could have a vote on the deal and we must reject no—deal as well. she is playing a game brinksmanship not just the parliament but with the future of our country. some of your supporters think you are playing games as well, and your own mps, actually. if you were being honest with people, shouldn't you be saying the reason you haven't done this is because ifjeremy corbyn tries and fails to purse general election then you have to decide whether to back a second referendum and as asp doesn't wa nt second referendum and as asp doesn't want a second referendum even though many of your members do. —— as a eurosceptic. it is a question of when and not if we have a vote of no—confidence in the government.

that undoubtedly will happen. if that does not happen we have to keep all options on the table. that is the programme we are pursuing. but you know what really matters is, that we reject this rubbish deal and the prospect of no—deal which would be even worse, although not much to be even worse, although not much to be back because they both destroy the economy, and we try and find a majority in parliament for a deal we can negotiate with the european union from scratch. one of your mps said the back you had not heard no—confidence motion in the government was bottling it. this is one of your own mps. government was bottling it. this is one of your own mp5. you have bottled it. told last week we should have called the no—confidence motion then. some people are saying that with hindsight we were right to wait. that was why yesterdayjeremy put the motion of no—confidence in the prime minister. sometimes, you can't win. there is no legalforce.

it isa can't win. there is no legalforce. it is a gimmick. what we're trying to do, which is why so many of my collea g u es to do, which is why so many of my colleagues signed it, is to put pressure on the prime minister to have the boat on her deal. we have got to have that because it is the important thing —— the vote on her deal. that is the important thing. the real objective is to get that vote so we can reject no—deal and her deal and move forward on something that parliament can agree on and that the county can get behind, we can negotiate with the eu, and have an outcome to brexit that does not destroy the economy and people's jobs. are absolutely 100% nothing to do withjeremy corbyn having tried to put off the day when he has to say i will back a second referendum or to say no, i wa nt second referendum or to say no, i want brexit. of course not. we have left all options on the table, that this conference policy, and that is the way we are going forward.

more on that story that jose mourinho has left man united. he's been under pressure as the club have struggled to keep up with their rivals at the top of the premier league. football writerjonathan wilson wrote about why things go wrong for mourinho in a third season at a club. hello, jonathan, it seems like the same pattern repeated. is that what is going on? it is the third season, three years and a day since he was sacked by chelsea, so there is this recurring pattern in the third season going on. since he was at

porto and at inter—milan, real madrid, chelsea, the second time round, he won the league in his second season, but it did not happen at manchester united, and that is the concern forjose mourinho, at no point has he looked on top of the job, has he looked like being the champion he used to be. and see past it? maybe yes. the truth is, the vast majority of managers, and our perspective is skewed by sir alex ferguson was a massive outlier, the fa ct ferguson was a massive outlier, the fact is that most managers have about a decade when they are really at the peak. it is an exhausting job to keep evolving. sir alex ferguson's capacity to keep doing that was, essentiallyjust ferguson's capacity to keep doing that was, essentially just the two of them and nobody else who has done it so consistently, to be able to adapt to changes in the game. what

has been apparent in the last 2.5 yea rs has been apparent in the last 2.5 years is that mourinho's football looks old—fashioned years is that mourinho's football looks old —fashioned and years is that mourinho's football looks old—fashioned and slow. everyone else at the highest level is pressing, playing this aggressive, energetic game and that is not his way of doing things. you may say there's more than one way to skina may say there's more than one way to skin a cat, but his way seems to have been superseded, and it has not produced results. the duchess of sussex's family troubles have been playing out in the media over the past few months. yesterday, herfather accused his daughter of "ghosting" him, cutting off contact, since she married prince harry. thomas markle suggested the royal couple could have been influenced by press reports about him. kensington palace declined to comment. let's take a look at some of the headlines that have been written about the duchess in recent months. there have been reports accusing meghan of being "difficult" and "controlling", and there have also been media stories of a rift with william and kate, and tensions in the royalfamily. she has been criticised by her half—sister for choosing

this photo for the front of her and prince harry's christmas card, where the couple have their backs to the camera. so is this the usual press aproach to newly famous people — build them up, and them pull them back down? well, joining us now is fashion designer and presenter amal fashanu. also, royal commentator and biographer claudia joseph, and professor suzanne franks, who is head ofjournalism at city university. welcome overview, and thank you for your patience. what is going on, as a professor ofjournalism? your patience. what is going on, as a professor of journalism? you got to keep the story going, so you build them up and knock them down and this is a great story, and it is another manifestation of how royalty has turned into a form of celebrity and we are treating it like we would any other celebrity story with these sort of ups and downs and ins and outs to keep the punters watching.

if meghan's family were not talking to the papers and tv we would not have this story. but the reality is there have been rumours for a long time about the duchess being difficult and these stories start happening when people resign from the palace and move down to windsor to kensington palace. all of the stories are not made up. are they putting two and two together and coming up with wide? inevitably, in some cases. it depends who's reporting. —— coming up with five. there are bound to be tensions. kate and meghan are different people, not natural friends, would not have come across one another in a different light. they don't have to be best buddies. i think reporters are

taking bits and exacerbating the problem. william and harry have been together for a long time. kate was pa rt of together for a long time. kate was part of actually are. they live close to each other, the others wanted to. it is significant that they are moving down to windsor and you get past that. regardless of her father talking to the press, i think it isa father talking to the press, i think it is a case of the media being interested. that was in meghan and her story and her life and even if her story and her life and even if her father was not speaking they would invent things about her, anyway. she has created this kind of phenomenon and people want to know about her, but it is on the other way the media are constantly attacking her. she's a newlywed. she is pregnant right now. some people on twitter criticise her paulinho up at the british fashion awards. that is just ridiculous tittle tattle. but you only need one critical tuitt

and it can be a story in a newspaper. jonathan says all of this nonsense needs to stop, the press are doing the same thing to meghan and kate that they did to princess diana and i'm surprised that william and harry have allowed it to go on. is that they're not? it has become this endless celebrity feeding frenzy of a story. that is entirely the same. there are differences. we're not talking about somebody who got married at 19 and we didn't have a clue, and came from a very sheltered background. we're talking about somebody who has a lot more to say for herself and more potential influence. there are parallels but there are differences as well. tina says the negative press is outrageous, prince harry has found a lot of his life, leave them alone to enjoy marriage. this is unacceptable behaviour. meghan has had a lot to

deal with, getting a handle on the royal family is a lot, to deal with, and they are goading her, like they did with diana. claudia, do you find that you have meghan fans on your back bailey wright write a better?” did —— when you write about meghan. the comments can be vicious compared with the stories that i write about cake. people say that i'm being racist, which i am not, and being sexist, and as a woman journalist, racist, which i am not, and being sexist, and as a womanjournalist, i hardly am sexist. they don't understand. meghan is hugely popular in this country. she is being paid for by the public purse. and people are interested in her. and what she wears is very important because she's boosting the british or

canadian fashion economy, whichever nationality she is wearing. what she wears is important and that is part of our role, part of it is to promote british fashion. and she does it very well. and why shouldn't be right about it? she's on a public stage. and that is her role, to take it. it has, for some reason, it has got much more vicious. people are viciously for meghan audaciously against. why'd you think that is? she just brings up passion in people. i am she just brings up passion in people. lam not she just brings up passion in people. i am not sure she just brings up passion in people. lam not sure it she just brings up passion in people. i am not sure it is to do with being mixed race, if am honest. i question if it is because she is mixed race. what do you think? it might have a bit to do with it. we have not seen the stories about cake. we are seeing them about meghan. they are both young,

beautiful women. the only difference is the fact that meghan is an actress and she is mixed race. it could be because of her career, because of where she came from or because of where she came from or because she is mixed race, which i genuinely hope it is not. that is nonsense , genuinely hope it is not. that is nonsense, isn't it? kate is a very different person. she's very quiet. she's not trying to change the royal family, to do anything differently. she's like william. she doesn't like the publicity. she doesn't like being in the public eye. she has beenin being in the public eye. she has been in the press. lots of stories about her, over time. been in the press. lots of stories about her, overtime. not been in the press. lots of stories about her, over time. not so quickly perhaps, but there are. but she's not breaking the rules in the same way as meghan. people admire meghan because she is trying to bring the royal family into the 21st century, and she's doing it very quickly, and royalists will not like that because it is too much. she has taken a

different approach to her role from kate. she is likely to court more controversy in that sort of way. but there are stories about people on no staff resigning, 5am e—mails. you don't get those sort of stories about cake. -- about kate. how do you know that these stories are true? that is so unfair. national newspapers are self regulated. you might get people making up stories online but national newspapers do not make up stories. i will read this, meghan markle is acting the pa rt this, meghan markle is acting the part of the duchess of sussex but she hasn't got a clue how a member of the royal family should behave. kate was eager to learn and has done a fantasticjob. if the reports are true that william and harry are falling out because of meghan then

thatis falling out because of meghan then that is a travesty. thank you all for coming on the programme, thank you for your patience, appreciate it. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. thank you for your company today. have a good day. good morning. we've had some very wet and windy weather so far this morning. the strong winds will continue into the afternoon. some gale force winds on irish sea coasts, and they will start to ease off later in the afternoon. strong winds gusting up to 45 mph, and heavy rain moving eastwards as we go through the afternoon. you can see the black arrows, the winds gusting, then some brighter skies developing here through the afternoon. it will turn chilly with temperatures

dropping away. elsewhere, temperatures between 8—11 celsius. that heavy rain will spread out into the north sea overnight. clear spells and she was then living in through the early hours of wednesday. chilly compared to last night, temperatures down to the low single figures. wednesday, a mixture of sunny spells and showers. she was around coastal areas. the further north and east you are, it will stay mostly dry, and temperatures, down a bit from today. goodbye. you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's11.00am and these are the main stories this morning: plans to overhaul england's waste systems are unveiled to make it easier to know "what"

and "when" to recycle. what we need to do is to make sure that that food waste does not go to landfill, because that creates significant environmental harms and we want to avoid that. and we'll be putting your questions about recycling to our expert panel in #bbcaskthis, just after 11.30am. the cabinet meets to discuss plans for a no deal brexit after theresa may said mps won't get to vote on her deal until late january. jose mourinho has been sacked as the manager of manchester united, after their worst start to a season in 28 years. a clampdown on the cost of overd rafts, regulators announce measures to make them more affordable.