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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  December 19, 2018 4:30am-5:01am GMT

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with prosecutors, who accuse it of a "shocking pattern of illegality." new york's attorney general says mr trump used the trump foundation as a "personal checkbook" for his business and political interests. the charity's lawyer described that statement as misleading. here in britain — the cabinet's agreed to activate plans for a no—deal brexit. two billion pounds is being given to government departments to help them prepare for the uk leaving the eu without a deal. three and a half thousand troops will be put on standby to help maintain essential services if needed. manchester united are seeking their fifth manager in five years. they've sacked jose mourinho after the club's worst start to a season in 28 years. the so—called ‘special one' has faced a barrage of criticism over his signings and the team's style of play. now on bbc news, stephen sackur speaks to the writer lee child on hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen
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sackur. storytelling is one of the most basic human impulses. but few are the storytellers who can draw in millions of readers all over the world, fewer still those who can do it repeatedly. which put my guest today, lee child, ina very which put my guest today, lee child, in a very exclusive club. his first thriller featuring former military policeman jack reacher was published 21 years ago. his latest is his 23rd and his book sales have topped 100 million. fans speculate endlessly about what drives jack reacher, but what drives lee child? lee child, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. you have lived with this fictional characterjack reacher for the last 20 odd years of your life. where did he come from because he certainly didn't come from your own life experiences? not may own
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experiences but my life experiences we re experiences but my life experiences were all in entertainment. i learnt very early that you can never plan and you should never overanalyse something that might or might not work in entertainment. everything is an accident. i wrote jack reacher andi an accident. i wrote jack reacher and i never wanted to know where he came from. i didn't want it burst the bubble or over think anything so for yea rs the bubble or over think anything so for years ijust broke him. then i became secure and i realised, web does he come from? some of it is wish fulfilment, i would like to be this guy. would you really? yes, i would and i expect my readers would as well. it is hundreds and thousands of years ago, he is the night parents, the mysterious stranger, the noble loner who shows up. in westerns in america, 150 yea rs up. in westerns in america, 150 years ago, but they did not invent
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him. before that he was in mediaeval sagas europe. the knight errant literally on battered white horse that would shop in the nick of time, solve the problem and move on. probably borrowed from the scandinavian sagas or the greek legends. you could trace at the same type of guy in religious myths, the saviour that shows up in the right time. is that an intellectualise asian of jack reacher that you have come to as you have been asked this question time and time again. ——or after you have been laid off from yourjob at the television. when you first started sketching out this character, we your where you are drawing on and legend? not clear. 0nly figured it out in retrospect. 0bviously he would have come out from what i had read previously in my life, what i had seen and what i had experienced in terms of myth and legend. aled davies the 20th century
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version of —— i would say he is the 20th century version of solaris a lot or the lone ranger. it is the united states of america, pretty contemporary, and he is a former military policemen. you, you were born in the west midlands in england and had a pretty conventional upbringing with a dad who was a civil servant who i thought wanted you to go into some kind of white—collar profession. they were you, a large growing up in provincial england. how do you feel so provincial england. how do you feel so comfortable writing about this i am strong military man in the middle of america? the american part is this character is always a forced out of the frontier. what worked in europe in the middle ages doesn't work any more because we are densely populated, settled, civilised and so on. the character, no choice of his own, but it was pushed out to where
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there is still a frontier which blames america. and no america well because in college i had married an american woman and i first went to american woman and i first went to america 44 years ago. i have lived there for more than 20. with an outsider‘s i which i think is very much more acute than a native's i, i know america well, i have seen it well and i can describe it well. i can explain and america to americans. —— and outsider‘s eye. —— and native's eye. people say write what you know. you sure as heck don't know much about the military life of a post— military life and frankly, you portray a bloke who is 6.5, £250, fights like a prized fighter, it knows everything there is to know about weaponry. —— 250 pounds. have you had a fistfight at
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as an adult? five years ago was the last time i had a fistfight as an adult. were you good? did you win? i was creaky because i am old now but idid win was creaky because i am old now but i did win and it surprised me, shocked me and shall, how fast you revert to that of feral streak. i'm intrigued. who were you fighting and why? was late at night in new york city and i was working home and cab stopped on the other side of broadway and very tiny six driver was trying to get a drunken frat boy out of the back of the cab because he was about to throw up. sikh. the boy was being abusive and i thought this is a real—life reach0ut that. i pulled the boy out of the back of the cab and he was foolish enough to hit me in the eye brow. reacherfull
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stop it required a response we had a fistfight. you channelled your in a reacher? i did. this is the point that explains reacher‘s appeal. we are all, mostly, i mean the majority of us, we are all decent hearted full of goodwill and would help a stranger as well as possible. most people are intimidated or inhibited by fear or propriety or maybe the problems are at work and they don't make waves. we all work with low levels of frustration that we can't do the right thing when we want to. that is why we love it in fiction. we turned to fiction for consolation. here is a guy who will do the right thing, no matter what the odds are and that gives us consolation and satisfaction and makes a still better about the world. what about guns? guns feature prominently in a lot of the books and jack reacher is not adverse to
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shooting people in the front and indeedin shooting people in the front and indeed in the back. if necessary. i just wonder whether there is a danger that you fetishise, glamorise, i'm not sure what the right word is, but your relationship with violence and indeed gun violence is complex. it is. and i make reacher make the point many times, never tell soldier that guns are fun because that word you use, set as a jay shannon, is the problem. gun ownership in america is huge. maybe i—handed million people. —— fetishisation. i know people will shoot a couple of beer which then feed theirfamily shoot a couple of beer which then feed their family through the winter. —— deer. 0n the other hand, the sort of person who fetishises is
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a serious problem. they are not all the same. you need to look at the mosaic and look at the ones who are dangerous and the ones that hard. and reacher tries to make the point that a gun is a tool. nobody fetishises black & decker cordless drill. nobody fetishises a certain type of a screwdriver. why is it that guns get fetishised? it is a mental health issue. people get turned on by the machines. are you an advocate for much tougher gun control in the united states?” would like to see some kind of sensible control, yeah. but it would you take somebody‘s —— i don't want to ta ke you take somebody‘s —— i don't want to take somebody‘s grandfather's garnet that will help them feed theirfamily for a garnet that will help them feed their family for a year but garnet that will help them feed theirfamily for a year but i do wa nt to ta ke theirfamily for a year but i do want to take guns away from people who have no legitimate reason to have one other than fun. —— gun. you
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meet people who enjoy guns. you say that betty white these books for entertainment and guns are a big feature. —— you say that but you write these books. i see it as a sophisticated response from the audience, that most book readers are more educated, more thoughtful, more sensitive people than nonbook readers, that's just the sensitive people than nonbook readers, that'sjust the name sensitive people than nonbook readers, that's just the name of the game. they know that pitch lady justice like reacher dispensers, is wrong. they know it shouldn't happen in real life, they know it can't exist in real life but a thoroughly agree that in real life and yes of course, in due process, we need fair trial, we need rules that respect the accused just as much as the victim. they are very comfortable with that. but they find it frustrating because it's a long drawnout process and sometimes the bad guy get away on a technicality and in the back of everybody‘s brain
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asa and in the back of everybody‘s brain as a kind of atavistic response, they want summary justice. because they want summary justice. because they are self—denying about that in real life, they love it in fiction. do you like the idea of summary justice. clear, absolute lines between right and wrong. a black and white view of the world which doesn't allow for much relativism and shilly—shallying around ? doesn't allow for much relativism and shilly—shallying around? while your books aren't political, you are deeply fed up with some aspects of society in the western world and some of that is connected to the role of institutions, the role of intervention was in that comes with the state and yourjack reacher is a quy the state and yourjack reacher is a guy that won't be doing with any of that, has no trunk with the rules and regulations of society. he is just so confident in himself to deliver his own form ofjustice. i'm a bit like that. for me, i am tired of co nsta ntly a bit like that. for me, i am tired of constantly read abating the same questions will stop for instance, i saw online about some couple are
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thinking this country, nazis, they called their baby adolf and so on. we have been there and done that. that is a settled question. we don't have to argue about whether that is a cce pta ble have to argue about whether that is acceptable or tolerable any more. we have had that discussion 70 years ago. summary justice for, have had that discussion 70 years ago. summaryjustice for, i mean, if reacher met somebody dressed up in a nazi uniform, giving a nazi salute, sure, he would punch them in the face because there is nothing more to be said. that to you is the solution to more problems than we actually allow for, punching somebody in the face maybe even shooting them? i pick we should do that with certain sorts of people, once in awhile, sure. ithink that with certain sorts of people, once in awhile, sure. i think donald trump well be a fan ofjack once in awhile, sure. i think donald trump well be a fan of jack reacher. eleanor kitty reddit, which don't think you does. is at trouble you that —— doesn't trouble you that this message plays into that notion? we have had enough of rules and
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rules —based systems, i'm going to do what i think is right. —— i don't think he does. to we already know the answer to that? you would reject the answer to that? you would reject the notion that the spirit in your books might match the spirit of a trump in age and the united states? there is a simplicity about the champion thing which is not reflected really in any book because it requires —— trumpian, it is what is missing in the trump coalition. although you'll books aren't overtly political, do you plant storylines, notions, scenes, in books, that exhibit perhaps you're deeper feelings about the way society should be? and a also try and use them as a way of a subliminal or hidden message to the sort of person who might superficially liken on the
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right. give me an example. one of the books is about gays in the military and reacher who is classed to the bosom of certain right—wing types, they love him, they use reacher to give the message that there is nothing wrong with that. i use that there are a gay people in the military? i remember my own father who was not particularly homophobic butjust a very repressed and conventional man, i once asked him whether gay people should be in the military and he said of course, we have a0 million men in uniform, of course plenty of them were gay. i askedif of course plenty of them were gay. i asked if it bothered him and he said why on earth would it bother me? is the body brings me a of ammunition, what do i care about his sexual oriel at —— orientation was i don't know if you put labels on yourself and all. if people heard that and put the label of liberal on
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you, do you see yourself that? is jack reacher a liberal?” you, do you see yourself that? is jack reacher a liberal? i am a writer so liberal, yes, based in liberty. completely believe in liberty. completely believe in liberty and democracy, so i am a democrat. they —— labels have been misappropriated. liberal is a term of abuse? i think it's a gorgeous concept. the business of writing. you have been extraordinarily successful in commercial terms and i just wonder having written that ist book, seen it take off and away could not imagine, whether you, early on and felt that you had a formula here that you want it, both wa nted formula here that you want it, both wanted and needed, to replicate. it's a good question because formula can be imposed from i side or another and i feel for me, can be imposed from i side or anotherand ifeel for me, in can be imposed from i side or another and ifeel for me, in as much as there is a formula, it's imposed by the reader's desire. i feel i am very much in partnership with the reader. it struck me so
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much. ati point, iforget who was interviewing you, you said the writer is the servant of the reader. it almost conjures up in my mind servitude, where you are trapped, you are locked, you've done so well and the readers love it and goodness knows, 100,000,000 books, you can't escape. it's not that, it's almost like a function. imagine you have a fa ntasy like a function. imagine you have a fantasy mediaeval court and the king has his own personal storyteller. that guy ‘sjob is has his own personal storyteller. that guy ‘s job is to entertain the king. it is explicit. that guy doesn't have liberty. he might have some other stories in his passion he said he wants to tell but the king says no, i want another1 like last week! my says no, i want another! like last week! my readers say that as well and it's not the big sacrifice to a vague plans might otherwise have. the reverse may be true. people love these books and they look forward to these books and they look forward to the next 1. it would be utterly perverse to me to say, i know you
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are looking forward to the next1 but you can't have it. you can have this completely different thing instead because of my own personal arrogant choice. it's not arrogant, it's just allowing the full lee child or i was going to say, jim grant, because in the end, this is about who you are, you arejim grant, your writer ‘s name is lee child that if you look deep intojim grant, maybe he has other things you wa nt to grant, maybe he has other things you want to say. the audience sees you as lee child. i could always say it and write it. i think it. the only person i really need to satisfy with my random thoughts as myself. suppose you were harry came playing for spurs. the person that goes to, i was going to say white hart lane, but the new place. the person who goes to the ground knows they will watch football, they know that up front. they are not walking along to the stadium thinking, is it going to
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be basketball rugby or hockey? you need to have some kind of reliability and entertainment. the audience needs to be able to trust the writer. but you're constraining yourself not just by the writer. but you're constraining yourself notjust by saying, well, i'm a writer, so i'm going to write, like hurricane would say i'm a footballer, i play football. you rightly specific stories. —— harry came. i guess what i'm asking is, are you truly, properly, deep down inside is fulfilled as you believe you can never be by continually, if i use them braised churning outjack reachers, rather than anything else. ican reachers, rather than anything else. i can say that because i don't think of myself as a writer per se. i'm not trying to be camus, i didn't lie in black polo necked leatherjacket, are not assessed with being a writer, i want to be an entertainer and people fall into a channel. you
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look around the entertainment scene today, people do their thing and i'm the guy that writes jack reacher. it's just that simple. the guy that writes jack reacher. it'sjust that simple. you have, in the past, said some interesting things about the snobbishness in the literary world. he pointed to some writer that you said you like. martin amis, ian mcewan, others. he said, they are good and i like some of their books but they couldn't probably do what i do wear as i am pretty darn sure i could do what they do. i think those are the facts of the writing landscape. if they could do it, why don't they? maybe for snobbish or other reasons, they don't value what you do. in a sense, to use a metaphor, they see it as junk food as opposed to a proper gourmet meal. but suppose you were a gourmet meal. but suppose you were a gourmet at great restaurants, wouldn't you one day go and eat at
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mcdonald's so your children could go to college, your grandchildren could have a house and so on. would you sacrifice one meal to ensure the security of your family so literally right —— literary writers, i love what they do and respected com pletely what they do and respected completely but just take what they do and respected completely butjust take a year off, make a fortune and the family will be ok forever. is that not an irresistible proposition? if they are not doing it, they are incredibly self—sacrificing under half of their children or grandchildren or they can't do it. we talked about your success and your characterjack reacher made the leap, he is good at leaping, made the leap from the page is the big screen. dash to the big screen. you are someone, screen. dash to the big screen. you are someone, not wholly involved. tom cruise playing jack reacher, you are never tom cruise playing jack reacher, you a re never really tom cruise playing jack reacher, you are never really satisfied or convinced about it. strictly speaking, i was rather detached from that decision. not that i wasn't involved. for me, the book is the
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ultimate product. there is nothing beyond the book. the book doesn't become better because it becomes a movie. the movie is peripheral. it's almost inevitably worse. i can think of only two movies that were better than the books that they have been based on but to me, it was not an important decision. i thought the book was the ultimate product. but my readers over the years were very unhappy with tom cruise which i thought ultimately was a little superficial. he said, and i quote, tom cruise for all his talent didn't have the physicality. he didn't, for the reader. jack reacher is supposed to be six foot five and £250. tom is half jack reacher‘s size. to be six foot five and £250. tom is half jack reacher's size. could you not stop that casting and get somebody more appropriate?”
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couldn't at the time. did you try? i didn't. i took a split second decision that he would be fun to work with, he was, i have nothing bad to say about him but the readers convinced me they are not happy so we are moving it from future films. tom cruise will not be jack reacher any more, it will be somebody on long form television, we don't know but hopefully the readers will participate. this is important for a lot of people who love the motion of more jack reacher on the screen but you say it will be some sort of long—term tv series. you say it will be some sort of long-term tv series. but to use brand names, a 10—12 hour season that can be binge watched and screened. when? hopefully within a year. we've done a deal in the past couple of weeks and we will start recruiting writers. who have you done the deal with? sky dance television in los angeles. it will be on... they will sell it to
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whichever platform. it's another payday. hopefully. am struggling to believe you haven't thought hard about who will playjack reacher because it will live and die by the possibility. part of that reason is sure anybody we know now is right. what i would love to happen is a com plete what i would love to happen is a complete unknown do it. jack reacher isa complete unknown do it. jack reacher is a huge guy and he's not very good looking, he is ugly, battered looking, he is ugly, battered looking and are not many who look like that, actors tend to be hanson is with a bit of luck, we could find a character actor who's been around for a while or a completely unknown person in the same model using years ago sean connery becamejames bond. television is a little bit more star driven than the movies so we can afford to look around more. a final port and i think i'm right in saying this one, the latest, is the 23rd.
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you are in your 60s a new done fabulously well and we discussed all about. our us committed to the next and the next and the next jack reacher as ever before? -- are you as committed ? reacher as ever before? -- are you as committed? i will wait to see out bills when i am writing it. but in about a third of next year's and it's still feeling good so that is fine. i will know, i don't would do this, when i feel like that, that is the time to stop because the one thing i do not want to do is be that quy thing i do not want to do is be that guy who sticks around a couple of yea rs guy who sticks around a couple of years too long. i don't want to be remembered for two lousy books at the end of my career as opposed to the end of my career as opposed to the good ones. lee child, it's been a pleasure avignon hardtalk. thank you very much indeed. after tuesday's rain, most of us will get to see some
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sunshine in the day ahead, but there will be showers around, too. as we take a look at the big picture, this is tuesday's weather front that has now moved out to the east. this weather front approaching from the west will pep up the showers across western parts later in the day. a cooler start to the day for wednesday. there may be a touch of frost, sheltered glens in scotland. some of us, though, are in low single figures. early showers towards south—east england and east anglia, though the bulk of these are going to fade into the afternoon. showers scattered about through western parts, heavy ones, maybe a rumble of thunder. gusty winds as well. not as windy as it was on tuesday. the showers get heavier and more widespread late in the day. it's not a cold wind direction, but temperatures are down compared with tuesday's readings. some of us will sink down into single figures. but, then again, it's not as windy. and there will be a bit of sunshine around. now, for a time going
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into the evening, the first part of the night, some of these showers will work eastwards across the uk. again, some heavy ones around. for the second half of wednesday night, they are mostly around southern and western coastal areas. still quite breezy out there. and still some temperatures heading down towards low single figures. but, for most of us, we are a good few degrees above freezing as thursday begins. the big picture again for thursday, you'll notice low pressure to the north—west of the british isles. areas closest to that most likely to see some further showers on thursday. and that's across scotland, northern ireland, north—west england, north and west wales, somejust pushing a little bit further eastwards on through the day. it is still quite breezy out there. for large parts of the midlands, east anglia, southern england, and some towards the north—east of scotland it will be largely dry and there will be the best
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of the available sunny spells here. temperatures are fairly close to average, but still on the mild side the further south you are. that's out thursday is shaping up. going into friday, an area of rain moving northwards with sunshine following on behind. it may hang around parts of northern ireland, southern scotland and northern england. the far north of scotland may stay dry with just the odd shower around. quite strong winds behind, and with this weather system, but mild air with it as well. a bit on the chilly side across northern scotland. could be some early fog around here to start the day. looking into the weekend, saturday is going to be the driest day. on sunday, outbreaks of rain or showers around. still breezy over the weekend, but for the last weekend before christmas it's still looking mild. bye— bye. you said the writer is the servant of the reader. this is the briefing. i'm sally bundock. our top stories: bracing for a no—deal brexit. brussels is set to unveil its advice to businesses across the continent. the uk government promises a post brexit shake—up of the immigration system, focusing on peoples' skills, not nationality, from 2021. five years of rising poverty
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in russia pose a challenge to vladimir putin's popularity. we report from siberia, where many face a grim future. and jose mourinho's out, but who's in? manchester united seek their fifth manager in five years. also coming up in business briefing: so, will they or won't they raise us rates? as the federal reserve deliberates, president trump steps
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