hello it's wednesday it's10am, i'm victoria derbyshire. new mums are still being forced to sign non—disclosure agreements after claiming they've been discriminated against for having women like hannah, who says she was forced out of herjob after returning from maternity leave. they told me i either sign the nda and left, with no pay—out, it has to be said, or they would start disciplinary proceedings against me, and i would be out within six weeks with no reference. now new research indicates the scale of the practise — which critics describe as legal blackmail. today, the government reveals its plans for the uk's immigration system after brexit. the home secretary says the system will be built around people's skills, rather than which country they come from. we'll have the details. we are in bradford, where mums from all parts of the community are being trained to spot the signs of far right and islamist

radicalisation in their children. this is not a religious problem, this is not a faith problem, this is not an ethnicity problem, this is a problem, because someone has an ideology and a vision, which then becomes a violent act. and young people growing up in care are 13 times more likely to be criminalised than other young people, campaigners say. we speak to 19—yerar—old ella dhillon, who was put in a children's home aged 15 and who tells us the police were called to tackle even low level bad behaviour. the police were used as a behaviour management tool, and that's what i find unacceptable. and infact, one officer joked that. .. what was the joke? that it would be cheaper for a police officer to be stationed at the door, than come down the road, every day. because they were there every day. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until ”am this morning. a question for you today —

do you agree with the the new head of the girls‘ schools association who's written today effectively that reality tv stars are better role models for children than politicians? sue hincks says reality stars set a good exmaplejust as, "some of our more traditional public figures leave a lot to be desired". do you agree? she is a head teacher. one is obviously a group of people who will do anything to get on tv and are forever arguing amongst themselves, because it creates better drama, and the other group, well, the stars of love island, i'm a celeb and towie. would you take dani and jack over theresa and jeremy? harry redknapp overjacob rees—mogg? sue hincks goes on, "so, never mind politicians, if you want to present an argument for deceny, sometimes you're better off getting a healthy dose of reality tv". tell us what you think. frosty tweets: "absolutley — although we should only follow one — harry redknapp".

nan tweets: "politicians aren't good role models. most are liars in it for money and to help their friends. nurses, fire fighters, police should be role models. they work hard for the country". greg says: "neither, thanks, if my kids started looking up to a bunch of vacuous airheads, who think having sex on tv is a good thing, i'd probably disown them". use the hashtag victoria live. send us an email victoria@bbc.co.uk. here'sjoanna with a summary of the day's news. plans for post—brexit immigration will be published later — but the home secretary, sajid javid, says they will not include a specific target to reduce numbers coming into the uk. the new rules will mark an end to the rights of eu citizens to live and work in britain without restrictions. in a bbc interview, mrjavid said ending free movement for eu citizens in favour of a skills—based policy similar to the american

and australian models could make britain more prosperous. business groups are urging politicians to prevent britian leaving the european union without a deal. they saying that with only 100 days to go until brexit there is not enough time for some companies to make contingency plans. five of the uk's leading business groups, representing hundreds of thousands of firms, issued a joint statement saying they were "watching in horror" as westminster infighting left key questions about the uk's plans for brexit unresolved. the competition watchdog says millions of consumers are being "ripped off" for sticking with the same services providers. the competition and markets authority is now calling for major reforms to the way insurance, mortgage, mobile phone and broadband markets operate which could save consumers around £4 billion a year. the cma carried out an investigation following a so—called "super complaint" by the citizens advice bureau. it uncovered problems like year—on—year stealth price rises, costly exit fees and complex processes to cancel contracts. santander has been fined nearly £38 million forfailing

to process the accounts and investments of customer who've died. the financial conduct authority says the bank didn't transfer funds worth more than £183 million to beneficiaries, directly affecting more than 40,000 customers. it added that in some cases funds were held for many years. santander has apologised and says it accepts the findings. the uk risks "sleepwalking" into becoming a cashless society with millions of people disadvantaged as a result, a study has concluded. the report found that eight million people still depend on using banknotes and coins and a cash—free society would create problems for those in debt, or living in rural areas. last year, debit cards overtook cash as the uk's most popular payment method. public health england says the food industry has made mixed progress towards meeting the government's salt reduction targets. it says manufacturers have succeeded in reducing salt in many products such as bread, cereals and cakes, but there's still too much in processed meats. too much salt can raise your blood

pressure, which puts you at increased risk of heart disease and stroke. in the past hour, manchester united have confirmed that their former player, 0le gunnar solskjaer, will take over as caretaker manager until the end of the season. the norweigan spent 11 seasons at old trafford, scoring the winning goal in the 1999 champions league final. man united sacked jose mourinho yesterday after their worst start to a season for 28 years. lewis hamilton has said he is "super proud" of stevenage, after referring to his hometown as "the slums". the formula 1 world champion made the comments at the sports personality of the year show. it sparked outrage on social media from fans and residents of the hertfordshire town. lewis has now shared an online video saying that he "chose the wrong words". i'm super proud of where i came

from. i hope i represent in the best way. nobody‘s perfect, i definitely make mistakes. lewis hamilton. lets join victoria. nice to have you joining us. good morning. we'll be talking about the government's new immigration plans later in the programme. we will bring you the details. if you've got something to say about the plans let us know. i had the home secretary say on the radio this morning there is no specific target in this immigration white paper, the effective consultation paper. the target of trying to bring net migration down to below 100,000 has been dropped. it is not in there. what also won't be in there is what the threshold will be for people who want to come here. and the salary of £30,000 has been mentioned for high skill workers and lots of people pointing out they are high skilled workers, nurses, junior doctors, etc, who are on way below 30,000. that wouldn't bea on way below 30,000. that wouldn't be a good threshold. do get in touch with us

throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live. last year, we revealed maternity discrimination was being hidden because of the use of gagging orders. now we've seen research looking into the experiences of hundreds of women who've had babies and who've been affected by non—disclosure agreements — also known as ndas. critics describe them as "legal blackmail". the campaign group pregnant then screwed has carried out a survey which they say suggests 91% of women who are forced out of theirjob due to pregnancy or maternity prejudice, felt signing an nda was their only option. one woman said she signed one, because she had had two miscarriages and thought the stress of going through a tribunal would cause another one. another because her baby was stillborn and she had absolutely no strength whatsoever to fight it. the issue will be discussed in parliament today. i've been speaking to hannah martin, who says she was forced to resign from herjob and sign a non—disclosure agreement after

she got back from maternity leave. karen jackson, director of law firm didlaw and?a specialist in discrimination cases. and jeli brearly — runs pregnant then screwed, which collects the expereinces of mums who say they've faced discrimination at work — and who will be speaking to mps about the issue later today. i started by asking hannah what she experienced when she went back to work after her maternity leave. i had my review, which was faultless, i had an excellent review, but two months after the review, i got called into a meeting by my employers, my line managers and the head of hr and told i had to leave. why? they said that i was rubbish, i had always been rubbish at myjob, they had warned me, many times and they wanted me to leave there and then. all of which was untrue. did they use the word rubbish? they didn't, i didn't want to swear. the actual words were,

"you,'re bleep, you have always been "you're bleep, you have always been bleep, you know that. are you joking me? no. oh, my goodness. how did you react? ifelt like i was being ambushed. i had no preparation for the meeting. i was called from my desk, where i was working. it was completely out of the blue. i wasn't expecting it. having had a faultless appraisal, to be quite frank, i was so angry and shocked, i was just trying not to cry. how do you know it was related to you having just returned from maternity leave? when i first came back off maternity leave, which was about seven, eight months earlier, one of my employers said to me to be careful, because perception was everything. having a child in childcare, i had to leave work at 5:30pm, every day and working in an advertising agency, i was always the first person to leave. and they hired a younger, much cheaper guy around the time this happened and what i believe happened, and i was since told by other

people, was that he was basically prepped to take over my role. why did you sign a gagging order, a nondisclosure agreement? because i wasn't given any other choice. they told me, i either sign the nda and left, with no pay—out, it has to be said, or they would start disciplinary proceedings against me and i would be out within six weeks with no reference. so, when you consider those two options, what kind of thoughts did you have? well, i sought legal advice and i was told by the lawyer that i had a good case for sexual discrimination and constructive dismissal. however, it would take about a year to go to a tribunal, i would have to pay upfront for my legal fees with no guarantee that i would win and i would also be unemployable, as a result. ifelt i had no choice. i felt bullied. i worked in a very male industry, this had happened to lots of women.

ifelt i had no choice but to sign the nda. you are obviously telling our audience about what happened to you, despite signing the nda. how is that possible? it took me ten years to have the courage to speak out. they made it very difficult. the nda made me very scared because, obviously, i could not talk about it to anyone. they've made it very difficult to get another job. they told me that the story i had to tell was i couldn't cope with the hours of work and that is why i left. which, of course, made it very difficult to get another job because when i was interviewing and they asked me, why did you leave your lastjob? i said, i couldn't cope with the hours. they would say, how can you cope with the hours here? it also felt that i was being forced to keep their guilty secret. i couldn't get support from other people. i thought it was only happening to me because i couldn't share my experience. 0nly ten years later, the company has actually closed down now, i never revealed the company name, but it took that long for me to have confidence to speak out. karenjackson, should these

kind of nondisclosure agreements be banned, in your view? it's a tricky one, because in some circumstances, they are quite useful for the employees, who are victims of discrimination. because you might want protection of confidentiality? absolutely. because for all the reasons explained by hannah, you don't really want your next employer to know why you left your previous employer, so there are some benefits. i think the main issue with ndas is that it cloaks this conduct and we repeatedly see good companies, big companies, well— known companies, flouting the discrimination laws in this country, silencing women with ndas and the problem just continues. what is the solution? is it bosses? is it parliamentarians? what would you both say? i think it's a combination and we were talking before and we have achieved quite good success in employment law around naming and shaming, the minimum wage regulations,

and lately, general pay. and lately, gender pay. so when you start to get reputation in play because you are exposing companies who are behaving badly, that's when they start to listen. money, they don't really care, they are quite happy to pay things off. but there needs to be some kind of sanction, whether public or not, that makes them think, actually, we need to tackle what is going on in our organisations. are you naming and shaming them, jolie? no, we can't, because we will then be liable, but we are in parliament today making a recommendation to government, which is that nondisclosure agreements, their use is monitored. at the moment, nobody knows what is going on, apart from the lawyer that deals with the contract. so we want to see all nondisclosure agreements being reported to a body, that body monitoring what is going on, and if they see that there is a problem, if they are being used to mask

discrimination, sexual harassment, they have the jurisdiction to go and investigate and act. right, which might shine a light on discrimination cases, but it might not? well, if they then force the company to put into place processes, training, so that this can't happen again, then it means that no women will further encounter discrimination, and if they do continue to do it, then they will start to the public then they will start to talk the public about what is happening. hannah's story i find really shocking. you've talked before on oui’ programme, we have spoken to women who have similar shocking stories. how often is this going on? how widespread is this? i'm not shocked, in the least. it's very widespread. we hear these stories, we see the stories all the time. there are 390,000 women a year who encounter pregnancy and maternity discrimination, 77% of working mums. ndas are just the tip of the iceberg. they are really the lucky ones. they are the women who get compensation and get a good reference.

most women... in return for their silence? in return for their silence. most women walk away with nothing but humiliation. they don't have the privilege to fight this. if we can find a way of exposing the use of nondisclosure agreements, we have a chance of unpicking what is going on further down and seeing what is happening behind closed office doors. but apart from it being against the law, which should be enough for any boss not to break the law, but clearly it's not, because they know they are probably going to get away with it, bosses, whether male or female, have daughters, wives, sisters who work, so it sort ofjust doesn't make sense because they would want the people in theirfamily to be treated fairly? absolutely. and the great thing is, i was on your show last year, we are still here talking about it. but there has been no improvement. there hasn't been any improvement, but we

still need to keep calling it out, talking about it, and we do need all the women we possibly can find and also the men, the fathers, brothers. because they want their daughters to be able to go to work in an environment that is free of harassment, where they can have a child, go back to work and it is not a problem, in the way that fathers do. so we just need to keep making a noise about it. what would you say to either a pregnant woman or a mum who hasjust gone back to work with a new baby, what advice would you give them, having heard your story, hannah, what would you say to them? in terms of preventing discrimination, iwould initiate conversations with my company, i would ask them how they are judging your performance, i would ask them for particular kind of goals you can work towards, so that you are aware of what you need to do to do yourjob well. so they can't spring something on your, or can't, behind your back, be thinking, you are leaving work at 5:30pm, you are not really

committed to the job. i would initiate those open discussions. get it written down, get it sorted, get parameters ready for when you get back? yes. when you return to work? absolutely. thank you, hannah. really appreciate your time. hannah martin. thank you. thank you too, jolie, and karenjackson, as well. this text from one woman who doesn't leave her name. i went back to work after a year off and i went part—time. they changed myjob role to something unrecognisable to what i had left. they expected the same amount of work in fewer hours and we re amount of work in fewer hours and were unsympathetic when i raised my concerns with how different things we re concerns with how different things were and said, move on if you don't like it. i did. i wasn't the only one this happened to. it is common practice to edge out maternity staff or change theirjob practice to edge out maternity staff or change their job and practice to edge out maternity staff or change theirjob and this was a job in the public sector. tim says its appalling new mums can be robbed of theirjobs. its appalling new mums can be robbed of their jobs. 0bviously. its appalling new mums can be robbed of theirjobs. 0bviously. and

another person, women being forced to sign nda is after being forced out of a job is absolutely outrageous and every company who has done this should be forced to pay every one of their victims full pay. transform as a shocking but sadly not surprising, if you have your own examples, please share them with us. you don't have to leave your name. still to come: are reality tv stars better role models for children and young people than our politiica ns? that's what the new head of the girls' schools association says today. do you agree? jim tweets this: "i couldn't think of a worse role model than a politician. they lie, cheat and are extremely self centred, arrogant and ignorant all traits you don't want see". tanya says on twitter: "both are a vacuous infection on society". we will talk to an mp and reality star. that is all before 11am. we'll find out today what the uk's immigration system will look like after brexit. the plans should have been announced last year — but there were massively delayed.

the new system will kick in from 2021. the home secretary, sajid javid, says talents and skills will be prioritised in the future — rather than nationality. let's chat to norman smith. what are we expecting in the so—called white paper, a consultation paper? it is. it is a big moment. immigration was at the heart of so much of the brexit debate. today, we get the government's vision of what the immigration rules should be once we leave the eu. broadly, what they are is ripping up freedom of movement, that ends. under the new scheme, eu nationals will get no preferential access to come and work here, to get benefits or to use public services like the health service or get kids into school, anything like that. they will be treated exactly the same as anyone else coming to britain from the rest of the uk. however, the government is proposing

introducing a new visa system which bea introducing a new visa system which be a skilled workers only visa system. if you are an unskilled worker hoping to come to britain in the future, your chances of getting in our very, very small indeed. under the skilled worker scheme, you will need a job paying £30,000. if you have a job paying less than that you have a job paying less than that you have a job paying less than that you have no automatic right to come in. for highly skilled, brain surgeons, brilliant engineers, those kind of people, they will be no cap on the numbers that can come in. what is interesting about this white paper you sense the tension is rippling through cabinet over this paper. because there is no real agreement over this 30,000 threshold. we learned that figure will be put out to consultation and review because some in the cabinet are worried that lots of people businesses would like to be recruited that businesses can't recruited that businesses can't recruit because they are paid less

than 30,000. the argument is that it would damage the economy. the most interesting row is over this target of getting net migration down to the tens of thousands, something mrs may has stuck to again and again. this morning number ten said they are sticking to that and when the home secretary, sajid javid appeared on the wireless, he did not commit to that figure, prompting number ten to ring up and in effect correct the home secretary. must have a listen to sajid javid on the radio dancing around the 10,000 figure without committing to it. 0ur our objective is clear. it's about bringing net migration down. the current levels are unsustainable. you said that very clearly but i am just trying to be absolutely clear. has the tens of thousands figure been abandoned? we remain committed to our manifesto. you are keeping it? we remain committed to our objective of bringing net migration down. you just won't use those words

tens of thousands are you? it is in your manifesto. i just tens of thousands are you? it is in your manifesto. ijust read you the precise words of the manifesto, it is our objective to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands rather than hundreds of thousands. i am merely inviting you since you say you are sticking to the manifesto, i am inviting you to repeat those words. what was clear from the manifesto is our commitment to bringing net migration down and that is what this new system is. you won't use that word tens of thousands? right? ithink won't use that word tens of thousands? right? i thinki won't use that word tens of thousands? right? ithinki have been very clear on this. you shouldn't last but as soon as the politician says i have been very clear, you know itjust isn't clear. thank you. the publication comes later. sajid javid will give a statement to the commens which you will watch on the commens which you will watch on the bbc news channel. the terror attacks of the last year brought renewed focus on what causes radicalisation and how it can be stopped. often, it is young people who are vulnerable to extremist messages. we've been in bradford, where mums

are being trained to spot the signs of both far right and islamist radicalisation in their children. bbc asian network's shabnam mahmood has been given exclusive access and has this report. sirens. the terror attacks of 2017, in which 36 people were killed, brought renewed focus on the causes of radicalisation. the manchester arena, london bridge, and westminster bridge attacks were all carried out by those with extreme islamist views. and there were at least 12 far right terror attacks last year, the most high profile on muslims in finsbury park, which killed one and injured dozens. one of the key elements of the government's fight against terror is the prevent programme. it's designed to support people at risk ofjoining extremist groups and carrying out terrorist activities. it uses early intervention through community and religious groups, to safeguard vulnerable individuals, some of whom get referred by teachers, health workers, community leaders, and even parents.

but it's not without controversy, with some claiming it unfairly targets muslims. the government funds hundreds of de—radicalisation programmes across the country. this one is taking place at a community centre here in the heart of bradford and is targeting mothers. talk about it as a family. look at what's acceptable, what's not acceptable... this might look like any mother and toddler group, but these mums are here being trained to recognise signs of extremism. as much as all this information you've got to remember, the internet is not designed for kids, all right? it's designed for adults... the women are from a variety of backgrounds and religions, including muslim, hindu and christian. it was really important for me to come to this course, because i wanted more of an insight

into this grooming and extremist groups and radicalisation of children. i wanted to know more about signs, and things i can look into, that can help me to understand how they're working and how they are reeling children in. is that a real concern in the community here in bradford? about radicalisation, about extremism ? i think it is. i think it is, because it's out there a lot more now, isn't it? you hear on all sorts, the children going missing, getting involved in these kinds of groups. different type of groups that parents are aware of. you have kids that are playing games and talking to people and we don't even know who they're talking to. when the kids play the games, is there a fear, then, that perhaps they could be radicalised or drawn into extremism of some kind?

to be honest, at first, i didn't think that was possible. i didn't. i didn't think they could do that, over games. but now that it's out there more and you hear about it a lot more, you are aware of it, even through this course, it's helped us, how we can keep tabs on that and it is happening. this prevent—funded scheme, mothers against radicalisation, is a voluntary one, for mums who want to keep their children safe, not because they are at a particular risk from any kind of extremism, nor have they been referred to prevent. it's run locally by sofia mahmood. in bradford, what we're looking at, which we have been looking at for many years, is early intervention. it's set up over a series of six weeks and it's a series of workshops that we deliver around radicalisation, ideology safeguarding, having difficult conversations for mothers within the communities, to raise awareness on signs and symptoms of radicalisation.

to have a better understanding of what extremism is, to have an understanding of how to work with services, to ensure that your children are safe. say if your child, god forbid, that he, you know... you spotted some signs of radicalisation, would you report him to the police? yeah. i would, just to safeguard my child. for the sake of my own child. to make sure that i can get him or her the help that they need, i would. i really don't know, you see, that's quite a difficult question for me. because being a mum, as well, it's like, am i doing the right thing? am i going to hurt my child? i don't think i would. i don't know. i really don't know. you would, because you... i would, because for me personally, it so that i can protect my child. absolutely. for it to go any further or for it to affect my other children or other children that are part of my children's group, to protect them. and myself as a family, i would. i probably would, but i would get guidance from family members,

maybe ask somebody, first, rather than straightaway going to the police. because that is my child. and if my child is going to get into trouble by the police, then that would be a worry for me. but can you imagine an overprotective grandma saying, "no, no, no, don't go to the police". they will definitely say no, you know that. can you imagine that? but then the kids will carry on doing it. but there's a point there, because once you tell the police, they'll stop. for me, it was just about a refresh about the uniform and let that not be a barrier to us helping you. the scheme works with the local council and the police, delivering sessions on internet safety, extremism, and building relationships. it was really nice — we developed a bond, so that if i had a question about islam, rather than having that fear... you can openly speak. because a lot of people they are afraid, they will see a muslim person walking down the street with an abaya on or a hijab on, they are scared to approach them or talk to them

or say hello to them. actually, if you say hello or want to know anything, we will openly tell you whatever you want to know about us. in the past, the government's prevent programme has been criticised for targeting specifically those from the muslim communities. there was a stigma attached to prevent, that it was muslim communities and we need to change that taboo. we need to make sure that this is going out to all communities, this is not a religious problem, this is not a faith problem, this is not an ethnicity problem. this is a problem because someone has an ideology and a vision, which then becomes a violent act. new figures show the number of individuals referred to prevent, for having extreme views, were 7,318 this year. that's a jump on the year before, when there were 6,093 referrals. and significantly, while the numbers referred for having extreme islamist views has fallen by 1a%, to 3,197, those being referred for having

far—right views has jumped by 35%, with 1,312 referrals in 2018. west yorkshire police say the bradford course is important for local women. i think what it is, it's the lack of education and about how to do and how to report. so, my role is all about empowering women and going out and educating them. but on the main, i think the community of bradford, you know, they're fairly well equipped and know when to call us. despite their different backgrounds, they all have one goal in common, they are working together to protect their families and communities from extremism. the big thing was, we are all mums and we all want to do what's best for them. we want everything for our children. it doesn't matter if you're muslim or not. we want the same thing.

we want our kids to be safe. it depends how us parents take it. if i have ignorance, my child will be ignorant as well. how would you like to travel through an underground tunnel for miles in an electric car, at speeds of up to 150mph, to try and beat the traffic queues? well, take a look at this. the controverisal tech guru elon musk has uneviled a prototype tunnel in los angeles, which he says could, in the future, help get people around the city. some people think it's great, but others say it's just an over—hyped hole. 0ur man in la, peter bowes, has been to take a closer look. this is the start of the tunnel. it's a very narrow tunnel, just wide enough for a family car. in this case, a modified tesla model x. to get through this tunnel, it has what they call alignment wheels on the front. they keep it on track, as it's heading through this stretch of tunnel, which isjust over a mile long.

let's talk about all this and how we'll travel in the future to shona ghosh, a senior tech reporterfrom business insider, and gareth corfield from tech website, the register. what do you think? a very ambitious idea. you already can travel in a tunnel by taking the tube so i am interested in the difference. that was my first thought, but it is different if it comes to pass? the only difference is this will be a tunnel system, so elon musk us thought very hard and come up with an underground bus network, theoretically capable of blowing 150 miles an hour, but i'm struggling to think about what is unique. what about the magnetic plates, 150 mph? pretty interesting. it is different. you are both sceptical! a really fun idea, we love the idea of getting into a self driving car, bypassing

the traffic, but what is not clear is... it is difficult and complex, creating a new tunnel system, you have other existing infrastructure in the way, water and sewage systems, so practically, how is an entirely new tunnel network going to work? lots of questions need to be a nswered work? lots of questions need to be answered before we can envisage getting into this, hurling ourselves through this tube at 150 kilometres per hour. do you agree? i largely agree. the real challenge is a civil engineering one, not a tech one. we can do magnetic plates, levitating trains like injapan, we can do tunnelling, lifts to lift the vehicles up and down from the surface. the question is the tunnel network itself, as shona identifies. take a city like london, we have

crossrail threading train tunnels very carefully through existing systems, how do you fit a new tunnel syste m systems, how do you fit a new tunnel system in through that network? what do you think of him? an interesting chap. larger than life. do you think of him? an interesting chap. largerthan life. like do you think of him? an interesting chap. larger than life. like all good entrepreneurs, he talks big game, really enthusiastic about what he is doing, highly ambitious, multiple projects going on at the same time, he has got tesla, space x, here is another one he describes asa x, here is another one he describes as a side project, really interesting, highly ambitious, some of the things, whether they come to pass, we can be a little sceptical, but you have to admire reaching for the moon. what do you think of him? again, interesting character. i think he certainly has a lot of ideas, a lot may be good, some bad. a bit ofa ideas, a lot may be good, some bad. a bit of a circus show man in that he likes to talk himself up and be in the limelight, he likes to be...

you can compare him to an american version of richard branson except richard branson has a track record by and large of mostly delivering what he says he will deliver whereas with the elon musk, we have tesla, they are cars, they work, kind of, but his big successes space better macro works, reusable space rocket project, credit where it is due, phenomenal technical achievement —— reusable space rocket project, space x. what should we be looking out for, interesting innovative projects? in terms of transport, things building on the existing infrastructure. we already have a complex and largely functional road infrastructure in the uk so what builds on that? electric vehicles, a good example, but still lots of problems that need to be sold like

battery technology. and also where the demand is, is their huge demand for a brand—new tunnel network of high—speed autonomous vehicles? flying taxis, another idea whether wealthy mostly male billionaires say, this will be great, but who is asking for this stuff? people are moving incrementally and they want incremental problem solved and environmental is a huge element. what are the future transport mechanisms that solve environmental problems while using existing infrastructure? those are the technologies to look for. thank you very much. shona and gareth, thank you. children growing up in care are at least 13 times more likely to be criminalised than other young people according to the howard league for penal reform. why? i've been talking to andrew nielson from the organisation, and also to 19—year—old ella dhillon who went into a children's home aged 15 after she says her parents couldn't keep her safe. she described the first children's home she went to. it was one of the worst

homes that i've lived in, i would say, probably. there was a very low amount of staff, a lot of different children coming in. after i moved in, another child moved in. it was very chaotic, i think would be the word. and it led me, after ten days, to being kicked out of the home and criminalised for two counts of gbh and criminal damage. what had happened in those ten days while you have been in that first children's home? very little, which was the point. nobody explained to me what was going on. nobody really explained to me what being "looked after" meant, or what was going on, or what the plan was. nobody did anything, and i was told i could not leave the home when other young people could, i didn't react very well. there were also two male staff on a night shift that said to me, "do you think that is going to get you kicked out of the home?"

so i showed them that i could get kicked out of the home. i succeeded in what was my goal at that time. right. how did you react, which led to the staff calling police? i didn't actually damage anything. i will still maintain, i did not actually damage anything. i ripped a lot of paper up, it is one of my weird things. i will rip paper up into tiny little pieces, and they called that criminal damage. seriously? you are not winding us up here, that is the truth? that was when they first said that you are causing criminal damage to the home. after that, i threw some tissue... i turned over some sofas. they had industrial big blue tissues and we threw them down the stairs, and things like that. but no real damage was caused to the level that they tried to say in court was caused. initially, they said it was... i can't remember, but a very high amount, and itjust wasn't accurate.

so you were arrested and you were charged with two counts of gbh, criminal damage to the value of £600, and as you made clear, you were convicted, you were found guilty of that. the next placement was a bit more successful, i think. it was another home. was that better? i had a quick foster placement between then. emergency how many days? i think eight, after i got out of the cells after maybe 2a hours because they could not find me a placement. let's just get this right. you were in the first children's home for ten days. yes. 2a hours of which were spent in a police cell. so it was ten days, then 2k hours in a cell, and then they were able to find me a placement. for eight days? yes, for eight days. and then you moved where? a little village in leicestershire. that was a children's home? yes, i was there for a year and a bit. it was a pretty successful placement.

how were you treated there that was different to previous places? it had a strong residential care manager that really understood about child ren's rights and gave me my passion for them. what does that mean? the idea that we have all got an innate right to certain freedoms, and she gave me the passion to fight for those and to be a voice. i was very lucky to have her as my manager. she then left due to changes within the company and it left a very inexperienced team, which led to more police call outs. it led to behaviour, that would have been managed within the home, being criminalised. not me personally within that home, but a young person smashed the house up and moved to birmingham, and it was a pretty... it became more of a common occurrence than before... sorry to interrupt. but what would you expect

to happen if someone smashed up a children's home? what would you expect the staff to do? it was, with that incident, that it should never have happened. it should never have got to that point. yes, they should have been experienced staff. in that home, they were so young. so young. how old? like 21. and you, at that stage, were how old? i was 15 or16, 17. sorry, 16 or 17. they were really young. the majority of them were in their 20s. did you think they didn't really know what they were doing? they had two weeks' training. they don't have social work qualifications, they didn't have any real training — it was online after that two week initial training period, they had no idea. some of the staff did not even cook for themselves at home. we had a member of staff that learned how to make a bacon sandwich

because i taught her. she didn't have those life skills but was supposed to be teaching us them, and supposed to be keeping us safe. so it deteriorated in that place. yes. so your point is, yes, i might have got angry, but actually, there is no need to call the police. potentially in that first situation, the police were necessary. were? potentially. the 2a hours in a cell was not necessary because, you know, an act does exist which says children should not be kept in cells. but in my final residential home, the police were used as behaviour management tools, and that is what i find unacceptable. that whole thing in a family home, when they are like, "wait till your dad gets home", that's what the police were used as. in fact, one officerjoked...

yes, that it would be cheaper for a police officer to be stationed at the door than come down the road every day. because they were there every day. one girl was missing from the care home, we all knew she was in the park and who she was with, but they called the police and created a police record for that child. i got arrested and charged for criminal damage for smashing a mug. that's always a really fun one to explain when you have got a cbs check. but didn't they write later and say there would be no further action on that? no, that was another one where i blew smoke in a staff member's face, and i was arrested and held overnight on the offence of assault. on that incident, a few months later, i got the no further action letter. but you were charged with criminal damage because you broke a mug? yes. were you found guilty?

it didn't go to court, it was a community thing where i had to write a letter apologising and pay for it. 0k. i'm going to ask you about the impact on your adult life of these things that happened when you were a child in the moment. i just want to bring in andrew, if i may. first of all, ella's experience in those homes and the way there was police involvement in those years. what do you say about that? well, sadly, it is typical of the stories that we hear and the briefing that we are publishing has other stories from other young people that we have interviewed. and it is this pattern of, it is not every home, but some children's homes dealing with some very vulnerable young people not in a good way, and relying on the police almost as a respite service. our initial concerns around residential care and criminalisation very much came from the police, it was the police themselves that raised it with us. we think some homes call us out too

much, and they are calling us out for things parents would never use the police for. that is why we are doing this programme of work. and this shocking statistic that children in care are 13 times more likely to be criminalised than other children. yes, and that's an underestimate because the official figures only count children who have been continuously in care for at least 12 months. as ella's story tells us, many children are in care for short periods, and they might come out of the care system and go back in again. those children and their criminalisation won't be captured, but certainly we do know, even with the figures as they are, that children in residential care are disproportionately criminalised compared to children in other care settings, never mind children outside the system. it is interesting that you say the police have come to you about this issue, it is an issue for them. they don't want to be called out for what might be regarded as minor teenage things that happen in most homes up and down the country. but they are then going on to investigate and prosecute, so is that not slightly disingenuous? i mean, ella says she was charged

with criminal damage, and she's adamant that was for smashing a mug. that is absurd and a waste of taxpayer's money. we have moved on, fortunately, from where we were when ella was in the system. it wasn't that long ago, you are only 19 now. it was two years ago. this has moved up the agenda. certainly, wherever possible, police would try not to criminalise, but it is notjust their decision. there are all sorts of different parts of system. so your message then is to staff at children's homes, both private and voluntary, and what is that message? 0ur message is really that it is not rocket science. a good home which treats children well and where staff present a degree of parental role modelling is a home where criminalisation is much less likely to occur, and as ella says, where incidents don't actually happen.

things don't escalate to the point where a young person kicks off and the police are called. where we have seen good homes, that is exactly what they are. they are notjust residential care centres, they are a home. the staff care. andrew and ella. who do you think make better role models for kids — politicians or reality tv stars? a leading headteacher has said today that when it comes to showing decency, you're better off with love island stars than an mp from any party. sue hincks, the new head of the girls' schools association, says public figures need to know that young people are watching everything they do. here's a snapshot of some reality stars and some politicans over recent months. from the moment i got in here, you have made me laugh every single day, and you always manage to bring out the best in me. i am so lucky to have met someone

like you so early on. i'm going to talk to your colleague now, james cleverly, conservative mp and vice—chair of the conservative party. i gather that you don't necessarily want to talk to each other. if you need to go... are you happy to? i will go, that's fine. 0k, all right. dojoin us. good morning to you. you can step in, if you like. fine, i am happy to. i want to couple up with this girl because she has got an absolutely amazing personality. i clicked with her straightaway, and i have really enjoyed spending time with her. i love how she's really kind, she puts people before herself. i thought i had lost her at one point, but luckily not. you carry on, i will check my phone. yeah, great. amazing. you carry on. sorry... let's not be patronising. i am not, i can't get a word in edgeways. please don't speak to her in that fashion. you have had more than, you have had 50% each. thank you forjoining us, we appreciate it. she is my life, you know?

i am a bit scared, actually. what are you scared about? when you get older, like with sandra, i do love her too much. if anything happened, it willjust kill me. that's enough, put down the microphone. mr president, are you worried about indictments coming down in this investigation? mr president? i tell you what, cnn should be ashamed of itself having you working for them. you are a rude, terrible person. you should not be working for cnn. go ahead. let's speak to one of westminster‘s youngest mps, labour mp for midlothian, danielle rowley — she's 28 and was elected last year. also with us is ryan cleary who starred in this year's survival of the fittest on itv2 and emma kelly who's deputy entertainment editor at the metro newspaper. do you agree with this headteacher,

sue hincks, that effectively reality tv stars are better role models for children and young people than politicians? i do. like the clips we saw, they show a massive gap as to why, how the reality stars act and influence younger people and how adults are acting and how it is not acceptable. what do you think? i agree. that depends on the reality star and the politician but i think reality stars are more electable to young people and show practical ways of acting and respectfully whereas in parliament and places like that, you do not always get that.|j in parliament and places like that, you do not always get that. i don't agree. i will be the odd one out. i think politicians have a lot of potential to be really good role models and we have got great people in parliament now and in communities as well doing really good work so i think both have potential to do a lot of good. yeah. i am going to give you some examples, so, tommy

from towie, tough essex lad, but he broke down and talked about his depression and he has been encouraging others to speak out. i could give you seven examples. and from the politician side, heidi alan, talking about having an abortion, lloyd russell on our programme the other week, told us about being hiv—positive. labour mp vicky foxcroft talking about her five—day—old baby dying when she was a teenager. there are some examples that you would also hold up from the side of the politicians? 10096. there will always be good politicians and bad reality stars, it is not a blanket sort of generalisation, but i think politicians cannot automatically be role models just because of the job they are in and

they have to show they can be role models and like you said, there are people in communities working really ha rd people in communities working really hard but often we see the worst examples, like in the clips you showed. i think people have to prove themselves as role models. showed. i think people have to prove themselves as role modelslj showed. i think people have to prove themselves as role models. i also think the social media presence of reality stars is more prominent. i think with mps, they are not relatable in terms of you cannot access them, through social media. you can, they cannot always reply, but you can access them, most are on social media. but i would not say they are or regularly posting. they are. iam they are or regularly posting. they are. i am following them.|j they are or regularly posting. they are. i am following them. i think thatis are. i am following them. i think that is a problem that maybe people do not think politicians are active enough because i am on instagram, twitter, facebook, keeping in touch with my constituents all the time and letting them know what i am up to and! and letting them know what i am up to and i know a lot of colleagues are as well but maybe that is a question, how do we make sure people

are aware of that and engaging with other small? is it because you are one of the younger politicians? would you say the old politicians are as savvy with instagram question maybe not instagram! are as savvy with instagram question maybe not instagram !|j are as savvy with instagram question maybe not instagram! i do not know. i follow a few colleagues, emily thornberry, great instagram, always posting really interesting things. whenever i visit schools which i do a lot in my constituency, i say, follow me on social media, what social media platforms do you use? what sue hincks is talking about specifically is behaviour. we could have edited those clips in a different way, we should have shown —— we could have shown massive rows on towie, what i feel you always see with reality stars is even the worst ones, the most argumentative, most controversial, it is usually edited in some way to show there is a bit

of good in them, always some kind of redemption, can you always say that about politicians? i don't think so. 0bviously, about politicians? i don't think so. obviously, in their personal lives, there is good, but what we are seeing is the professional side. we seeing is the professional side. we see the worst of it. reality stars, you see them for the most part as they are, making careers off their personalities rather than policies, a bit easierfor them personalities rather than policies, a bit easier for them to personalities rather than policies, a bit easierfor them to be more emotional and open and talking about things like sexuality or difficulties, mental health. a little bit easier for them to come across as good role models. do you feel like a role model?” across as good role models. do you feel like a role model? i would say absolutely for the lg bt feel like a role model? i would say absolutely for the lgbt community within television this year, i came out on survival of the fittest. i we nt out on survival of the fittest. i went on to another show currently showing and the response i have had from people on instagram and on the street and in person is amazing. people that have said they have watched the show, for comfortable

that they can now come out and speak about their sexuality, be open. i feel that in some ways i am a role model and it is comforting to know people have got that because i never had it growing up, especially not through television or media. do you feel a responsibility and are you 0k with it? i feel i am feel a responsibility and are you 0k with it? i feel! am happy about it, the responsibility. the other day, someone the responsibility. the other day, someone said to me in the street, i watched the show and i am with my auntie and i just watched the show and i am with my auntie and ijust came up to her. it felt really rewarding. sometimes people can watch a show and get something from it and that is what i feel people are doing from the shows i have been on. do you feel like a role model? i have had an interesting journey with that question, when i was first elected, young, unexpectedly, people said, young, unexpectedly, people said, you are a role model for other young women wanting to get into politics. i thought, i am not a role women wanting to get into politics. ithought, lam not a role model, i

struggled with it. but over the past year, when i have visited schools, spoken to constituents, they have said, you are young woman from a working—class background, in your community, that is going to encourage other young women who do not see anyone on telly or in politics from that kind of background, so i think i have come to accept now that i am and it is a really positive thing. samantha bond twitter, i have been appalled recently that the weight politicians have been speaking to the prime minister, vicious and unnecessary. words hurt. a point can be made without behaving like bullies. another, politicians have a bully culture you can see in parliament, doa culture you can see in parliament, do a greeting each other publicly. anyone showing love and humour is better than a politician —— degrading each other publicly. another says they are both a mindless rabble, not one springs to mindless rabble, not one springs to mind that i would want a child to look up to. one more, my parents and later my teachers were my role models, whatever happened to that

way of doing things? well your pa rents you way of doing things? well your parents you are role models? yeah. yeah. and my grandparents, 89 and 91, fascinating lives, helped raise me as well, they are always my role models. thank you all of you for coming on the programme. newsroom live is next. have a lovely day. we are back tomorrow. a quieter day weather wise, dry and brighter rob cross good parts of the uk but showers affecting the midlands and central and southern england and eastern parts of england, quite heavy and this is the radar image from earlier, a few showers on western coast of wales and across england. a few showers this afternoon across the southern coast of england as well. most

having a dry afternoon with lengthy spells of sunshine particularly in central and eastern areas and the north—east scotland and maximum temperatures 7—10. much compared to yesterday. tonight we will continue with with showers moving east and varying amounts of cloud. where there are lengthy breaks in the cloud in eastern scotland and north—east england, temperatures close to freezing. thursday, sunny spells, some showers, most likely for scotland and northern ireland and the far north of england. bye— bye. you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's 11 am and these are the main stories this morning.

a plan for immigration after brexit — the government says it will prioritise skills not nationality. the uk's biggest business groups appeal to mps to avoid a no—deal brexit, warning hundreds of thousands of companies won't be ready. the european commission will publish details shortly of its contingency plans for a possible no deal. a warning from the competitions watchdog — millions of consumers are being "ripped off" for sticking with the same service providers. tech entrepreneur elon musk unveils an underground tunnel designed to transport cars around los angeles at speed to avoid congestion. lewis hamilton says he's "super proud" of his hometown stevenage after referring to its "slums" at the sports personality of the year ceremony.