our top story: us defence secretary jim mattis is to quit hisjob in the trump administration. his departure had been anticipated in parts of the us media after president trump decided to withdraw us troops from syria — despite opposition from international allies and members of the us military. one of the uk's busiest airports, london gatwick, is shut down, as the army and police hunt the drone operators who've disrupted hundreds of commercial flights. and this video is trending on bbc.com. it's santa obama — the former us president paid a surprise visit to a children's hospital in washington with a sack full of presents. he spoke to children and their families and thanked the staff for looking after all of them over the christmas holidays. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, stephen sackur speaks to musician mark knopfler on hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk,

i'm stephen sackur. in the pantheon of rock ‘n‘ roll greats, a special place is reserved for guitar virtuosos. think eric clapton, jimmy page, or my guest today, mark knopfler, frontman of dire straits, one of the biggest bands in the world in the ‘80s and ‘90s. unlike so many other rock stars, knopfler never fully embraced the world of excess and celebrity. he forged a solo career, writing, performing, and working with the likes of tina turner and emmylou harris. a low—key, grounded rock legend — whoever heard of such a thing? mark knopfler, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. you've been writing music for many, many decades now. you are still at it, writing, singing, touring around the world. how different does it feel now from back in your youth, making it big in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s? it feels... i feel older. it gets harder touring. if there are steps that you take, then the touring would be the final

one, after writing and after recording. then the touring would probably be the first casualty, i think, with advancing years. i think i will have to put the brakes on there, before too long. i just wonder whether you feel, in a sense, liberated, freer? because now, frankly, having made an awful lot of money over the years, you are not driven by a sort of commercial need, you are not driven by expectations in the same way as a young man would be, and you're not actually trapped in a band the way you used to be. so do you feel free? yes, i think it's as close as you can come to a pretty cool way of going about things. and also i built my own studio, which again, i got too late, like everything. if i'd done it 20 years ago, i think it would be a little bit better. but it's a great thing to have, to do all my recording

in as well, in london. i called you a guitar virtuoso, a rock ‘n‘ roll star. do you see yourself that way? not at all. i play seriously, and anybody who is involved in music the way that, say, the guys in my band are, they would understand that it's a bottomless thing, it's an endless thing. it's like equating yourself with another piece of a great global jigsaw, that you never get to finish. let's actually reflect on what the sound is like today. so many people watching this will remember dire straits from your biggest early hit, sultans of swing, and then the album which sold many tens of millions, brothers in arms. but let us look at the latest album, one particular track of the album. let's look at the style you have today. # flash goes a little hummingbird,

a dart and worried thread. # at the screen door by his lemon tree. # out here with the quick and the dead. # designer blinds above la frame the perfect view. # it's going to be another day of sun and shameless blue. so there is mark knopfler with his band, playing good on you son. and it's funny, you giggled as you watched that, particularly that shot of the geezers all clapping in line. that's not rock ‘n‘ roll as you knew it, is it? not exactly, no. let's go in and do some handclaps. and, you know, whenever i see them in a line like that, i always — it always makes me laugh, because at the end of shows, they all come to the front of the stage and do a bow, and they're always —

the crowds are always wanting another song. and it always happens that way, and ijust call them terrible actors, and go on, go and do some bad acting. i want to reflect on how you got into music, and what really motivated you within music. and i found this quote from you a while back where you said, as a kid, chuck berry made a huge impression on me. by 12 or 13 i was also listening to bob dylan, and i was in love with the twang, with the immediacy of rock ‘n‘ roll. but i was also deeply concerned about the words. it was never just about the music. explain that to me, this storytelling thing that you seem to have. well, that's right, and chuck berry would be an example of that — tremendous lyrics. well, ijust rememberfrom my mother — i think it would be the bbc, in fact. it would be children's favourites,

and this is going back a long time. to being a very young child. i asked my mother, actually, how i used to listen, and she said very seriously. you know, so i could sing, apparently, rudolph the red—nosed reindeer at 18 months. so i remember the words to a lot of those songs. i can sing you the big rock candy mountain, even though i didn't know what it was. it was a hobo song. i didn't know what a hobo was, but i knew i liked it, and i did fasten on the lyrics. and as a young man, if we fast—forward to your teens and early 20s, you discover that you could play, and you were forming bands with mates and that sort of thing. but you were, at the same time, actually training to be a journalist for a while.

yes. you became a newspaper reporter in yorkshire. so again, i see some sort of storytelling about it. yes, i made it through a course at harlow, a full—time course injournalism. and by some miracle i got on it, and enjoyed it, and it was the making of me. i think in some ways it, i think, it was a great thing for a young me to have done, because it sharpened me up. you had to get yourself organised, and it taught you how to condense, and it taught you how to — a beginning, a middle, and an end, and to deal with stuff. so, if i give you an example, if i go off to interview the cast of a pantomime in leeds, which is where i ended up working for six years or so — well, i actually worked in leeds on the paper for a couple of years. that's all that i did on the paper. but if you go and do a job like that, then you post your piece for the paper. but i would have my notes and i would be looking at it, and some of it would just be becoming a song in my mind,

which it did, in fact, in the end — one more matinee. and i realised that i was becoming — slowly becoming what they call a songwriter. so your way of thinking about yourself starts to change. you think of yourself as a kid who plays guitar, and then you start thinking of yourself as a songwriter, and that's a whole different thing. it is different, and you're very self—deprecating when you talk about your relationship with the guitar. because again, i mentioned other great sort of rock ‘n‘ roll legend guitarists, like clapton, jimi hendrix, jimmy page, and your name comes up to. but you say, and you have said it several times, i am not in love with the guitar in that way. i am first and foremost about the songs, about the writing, not about the guitar. well, i do love the guitar, don't get me wrong.

i mean, i love guitars, and i love cheap guitars as well as expensive ones. that's another thing that people assume — that you're playing some massive, flash thing, but you're not always. you have to love the thing, completely. all i was talking about in the interview that you will have read was i'll have been saying that i've been using the guitar to write the song with. in other words, the song is what's the important thing, and you're trying to do the best thing by the songs. let's talk about a specific song, which in a sense changed your life. sultans of swing. you had formed dire straits. your brother was part of the band, your friends as well. you had had some success, but the song was your breakthrough. it took you into the charts, it took you into new territory for touring. let's remind people

what it was like, late ‘70s, early ‘80s, when sultans of swing was on every playlist. # we are the sultans. # we are the sultans of swing. so it's you, the red jacket, the bandanna, and the guitar. that, i suppose, was the time when you became a rock star. i get the feeling you were very uncomfortable, even from the beginning, with being a rock star. yes, i remember doing — i think i did 18 interviews in amsterdam. we were number one there in holland, and germany, and france, and everywhere, and all these journalists. and i remember lying on my bed afterwards thinking somebody had grabbed the thread,

the wool from my sweater, and just kept pulling it. so... that's a really interesting metaphor. you mean, you felt... shredded. shredded, and exposed. yes, because when you're a songwriter, you're looking at the world, or i am. and, you know, the feeling that i got was that the world was suddenly looking at me. now, it's actually not as important as you think. after a while you start to realise, in fact, that music doesn't matter that much, to most people, anyway, and you learn to get it in perspective. but i think it really did rock me at the beginning, yeah. you as a band were selling millions of records. you were touring all the time. of course there's that famous phrase — rock ‘n‘ roll is usually preceded by sex and drugs. i mean, was there a time in your life where you felt you were not being true to yourself, because you were being dragged into, or indeed maybe even embracing, a lifestyle that wasn't really you? well, i don't — i would recommend

success to anybody. don't — don't think that, you know, that it's not great. and it is great, and it's what i wanted. it is what we wanted. you know, that — that's certainly true. but there is a downside to it. well, here's a thing. you said it's great, referring to years of great success, but it is hard. it is traumatic, and there's a lot of insanity. what did you mean by the insanity and the trauma? i think anything that gets too big, anything that gets too successful, you know, you're going to be in touch with the downside of it. and it's up to you to... trauma, though? yes, i think it is traumatic. it is traumatic for some people. and i think, even for the businesspeople who are looking after you, even for management, it's like...

you know, it's like trying to ride two wild horses at the same time, you know? it's not the easiest thing, always. well, you are being a bit elliptical, but trauma is a big word. i'm just wondering at what point you felt traumatised, and what was it, really, that was giving you that trauma? well, i mean, ithought... really, for me, it was the writing that was suffering most of all. it was that you get on this big roundabout, and the tours were so long, and i'm talking about 250 shows a year, or whatever it would be, or that kind of thing. and, of course, you're getting exposed to a worldwide audience, and all the rest of it, but there was no time to... to me, there was no time to recover from any of it. you know, we'd be playing five or six — six nights a week usually, and there's just no let—up, whereas now, ifeel as though i can

control the pace a little better. would it be right to speculate that one of the very difficult things for you is the success of dire straits seems to have destroyed your relationship with your brother, david, who was in the band at the beginning, was part of the sultans of swing rise, but then very soon after left the band ? that must have been very hard. yes, i mean, ithink there are casualties. where i wanted to go was to — was into film, was into different kinds of records, different kinds of ensembles, and also into production, and working with different artists, and everything else. so i was always looking to increase my vocabulary, and i was always looking to improve as a writer. he said, to paraphrase him, he said you, mark, wanted to run

the band like a monarchy. he saw the band as a democracy. well, it's possible. but uh... are you in touch with him today? we don't really communicate, no. how much of a sadness is that? well, it is, it is. there are casualties i'm afraid with this game but you've got to be, you know, you've got to be the right kind of person to do this. it means that you've got to be completely committed to it. and you've got to be very... i thought you were going to say selfish. not necessarily in a bad way, because you developed this very successful solo career, you wrote film music, people will remember the score to local hero, you also, as a producer,

worked with some of the greatest names, bob dylan, tina turner, emmylou harris in a country music venture. but that was you leaving the band behind. i mean, do you think psychologically you were actually a guy who was better suited to being on your own in terms of the artistic? i do, i do. and i wanted to work with other musicians as well and other instruments, and to have a different kind of palate. when i go on tour this time, i'll have about ten musicians, so even just getting towards the end of my time on stage, and i'm still thinking, that's — i should really have a trombone in there, you know. it's just the way that i am. you couldn't have control with a guy like dylan. you produced at least one of his albums in the early ‘80s. you worked on some of his best—known

songs of that period, but... yes, but i was just finding out that production probably wasn't going to be for me. i was just going to say, how difficult was it? i don't know what it was like working with dylan. you tell me, was it easy or was it actually quite tough? well, i think producing is a movable feast. sometimes you'rejust directing traffic. and other times, you're really involved with a song or you'd be running down a song together. there's no law, and no one song is the same and no one day will necessarily be the same. i think you've just got to be ready for whatever turns up. but it didn't suit me terribly well. i'm just interested — bob dylan has, at times, it seems, been quite difficult to work with.

how did you find it? well, i think all of these situations can provide their trickier moments, but i don't want to gossip about that too much. oh, yeah. when you reflect on the different styles that you've become involved in, you came up with a phrase at one point you said, there was one particular album you worked on around 2012, you said, it's a little bit mississippi, it's a little bit geordie. where is your soul, your roots? that's a tricky one. i think i said somewhere, where the delta meets the tyne, i think i said once. and for people who don't know around the world, the tyne is the river that runs through newcastle, the people from newcastle are known as geordies. you weren't born there but you were raised there. my mum was a geordie. there are songs written

with reflections on the north—east and on things you remember from your dad and from newcastle. would you say if you cut right through to the mark knopfler quick, that that is where your roots of your soul are? yes, i think so. i think that my love for northumberland has gone on growing and i had a love affair with the town when i was a teenager, but as i got older, that moved out of town and went out to the countryside, the glorious countryside of northumberland, so i always like to get my northumbrian fix, if i can. music has changed for a great deal over 50 years of your career. right now, it'sall about downloads, it's streaming music, and album sales, which used to be the great measure of success, whether it be vinyl or cd, all of that has changed and it seems that the big money for people like you with a big name in rock ‘n‘ roll, the big money is in touring.

do you feel that the balance has shifted in a good or a difficult way for musicians today? well, obviously you don't go touring to lose money, but... do you feel pressure to go back? some people have talked about a dire straits reunion and your matejohn illsley, who was obviously in the band for a long time, he's talked about his readiness for a dire straits reunion because, frankly, apart from anything else, it would be a massive payday. those big arenas and stadiums around the world, you would make a fortune. are you tempted ? do you think so? everyone else is doing it, from the rolling stones on. maybe, i don't really want to have — it's not my... i'm not particularly interested in that. i've done pretty well. i've got the studio, and i've put a lot into that. never mind the commercial side of it but from the artistic point of view, would you, do you think, always rule out a dire straits reunion?

i think so, and the only thing that i thought a few years ago was that it might be possible to do something for charity, but the only trouble with that would be, is that everything else that would surround that then, that once, as soon as you'd started working in that direction, the pressures to do a whole bunch of associated stuff would bejust too much. and you'd be unable, you'd be trying to recoup costs here, there and everywhere, and it would just end being a whole other big project that would take up a whole lot of time. and i've always been in a situation where i wanted do something musical, i wanted to go somewhere different, wanted to explore something in another way.

i just find that far more absorbing and far more fascinating. i never thought i'd ever make a film, be able to create a film score. i never thought i'd ever be able to do a musical, a musical, you'rejoking. and say when this local hero thing came together... you're about to be — you are involved in the making of the music of a musical version of the movie local hero. the bill forsyth story. i didn't think i'd be the man for that, but then i could write songs for the characters. but one other aspect of the weird sort of interplay of art and commerce today. i did notice earlier this year, an investment company by the name of real exchange has bought a portion of the dire straits back catalogue and they sold it to investors saying, if you buy a share of the dire straits back catalogue, you're going to produce a cash yield

of 8% in the first year and a forecast of i2—is% annualised rate of returns over 10 years. well, it's nothing. it was an ex—manager selling his little share of — selling a share of something, that's all. were you appalled ? yeah, pretty much, but it's not my style. i wouldn't have done it. you never know what people will do. i'm just mindful that you wrote one of the most famous lines in songs, "money for nothing". and it was a reflection, i remember the story of the song is about a guy looking at some pop stars on the tv and griping about how they get away with making money for nothing. when you consider your career, its ups and downs and its flow, do you think there's anything truthful about that money for nothing? well, can be, but ijust consider myself the luckiest guy in the world. when i'm going to the studio is when i feel the happiest. that's really where i feel as though i'm going where i belong.

and i've tried a lot of other things and i don't think that they've worked as well. music, for you, it sounds like, has never been work. no, it hasn't been like work, and so i've probably never worked a day, all those days, with music. yeah, that's right. mark knopfler, it's a great way to end. thank you very much being on hardtalk. pleasure. i appreciate it, thank you very much indeed. hello there. on thursday, most of the showers were across eastern areas, many eastern areas did manage to dodge them and actually had a fine end to the day.

—— western. but as we head on into this morning, certainly for the early hours, it's looking wetter and windier as the next frontal system pushes up from the south—west, bringing outbreaks of rain to england and wales, and as far north as northern ireland, perhaps the far south of scotland. very mild in the south as well to begin friday morning, all thanks to these mild plumes hiding with this weather system. now, the weather front straddling central areas will tend to linger on throughout the day, so it looks like northern england, southern scotland, and northern ireland will hold on to cloud and outbreaks of rain, whereas for the rest of england and wales, skies will tend to brighten up into the afternoon, with some sunshine developing. apart from a few showers for scotland, there'll be some sunshine here as well. quite a divide in temperatures. south of that weather front, it's very mild across much of england and wales, ii to maybe 14 degrees in london. to the north of it, temperatures nearer normal for the time of year. so that's how it's looking through today. now, as we end the day, it looks like the winds picking up

further across england and wales, gusting a0 to maybe 50 miles an hour for cornwall and devon, and across the english channel. you can see the isobars blowing in from the west. as we head on into saturday, we'll see this brief ridge of high—pressure, which will bring a fine day for most. this next weather system, though, will bring some rain to some of us for sunday. so this is the picture for saturday then, we've got fairly brisk westerly winds, a little bit lighter certainly than what we'll see through today. plenty of sunshine. a few showers across the north—west, pretty normal temperatures for the time of year, but again, quite mild across the south. now, it'll stay dry through saturday night, before this next weather system begins to push up from the south—west of england, bringing the next spell of wet and windy weather, again to the southern half of the country, as we move on into sunday, but it's going to be a fairly mild start once again to sunday, a few chilly spots further north. the rain will be quite heavy for a time as it pushes its way eastwards. so into sunday afternoon, i think we should start to see a little bit of dry weather, although it'll stay quite cloudy with a few showers around.

the best of the sunshine for the northern half of the country. nearer normal temperatures in the north, again pretty mild in the south, 12s and 13s. this weather front may return northwards again, aut as a big area of high pressure beginning to build late on christmas eve and christmas day, it looks like things will settle down. so many of us will have a dry day through christmas day, with maybe a little bit of sunshine. the only clear spells overnight christmas eve means we could see some patchy frost and fog in places. however, for most, it's going to be mainly dry. i'm mariko oi in singapore. the headlines: us defence secretaryjim mattis says he will quit hisjob, hinting that his views aren't in line with donald trump's. there is mounting criticism of the president's decision

to withdraw us troops from syria. critics say it could embolden so—called islamic state. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: london gatwick airport is shut down for a second day, as ongoing flights by illegal drones leave 100,000 passengers in limbo. we have on—site the police, supported by the security services and the military, looking at every opportunity we have to disable