to press his case for a wall on the southern border between the us and mexico. it was an election campaign promise, but he insisted then that mexico would pay for it. now he wants billion of dollars from congress instead and the political row over that has partially shut down the government, leaving hundreds of thousands of federal employees without pay. after the president, a broadcast response from the democrats in congress. speaker of the house, nancy pelosi, and chuck schumer, minority leader in the senate, accused the president of malice, and urged him to re—open the government as soon as possible. mps have defeated the british government and passed a vote that might make the no—deal brexit less likely. the house of commons voted to limit the government's tax raising powers if the uk leave the eu without a formal agreement. ministers say the change is minor and technical. you are up—to—date on the headlines. time now for hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk, with me, stephen sackur. brexit is tearing at the fabric of british politics. prime minister's theresa may's proposed deal is hated by many in her conservative party. it may well be rejected in a parliamentary vote next week. but the opposition labour party is riven by division too. a clear majority of labour members seem to want a referendum as a pathway to reversing brexit. the party leaderjeremy corbyn says brexit can't be stopped. my corbyn says brexit can't be stopped. my guess is that the leader of unite, britain's biggest trade union and biggest donor to labour, len mccluskey. could brexit break the left a pa rt? len mccluskey, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you. i think nobody would argue that brexit is the defining issue in britain today, perhaps the biggest decision that country has had to make for a generation and more. would you agree it has proved to be extraordinarily difficult to find a coherent position in the left, the labour movement? well, i think the reality, stephen, is of course to an a half years ago your question was spot on, the decision which the british people were asked to make was a defining decision. my union campaigned strongly, more than anyone else, more money, more

resources , anyone else, more money, more resources, on the platform of remain and reform. unfortunately we lost, and reform. unfortunately we lost, and therefore we have a situation where the british people have decided that they want to leave the european union. the big issue therefore is not that it is the end of the world, because it isn't, but what kind of agreement can you strike in order to leave the european union? unfortunately we have had a conservative government that has effectively wasted two yea rs that has effectively wasted two years arguing among itself. well, let's go through this step—by—step. not so long ago in an interview with a german magazine, just before christmas, jeremy corbyn said brexit cannot be stopped, quite baldly and simply. do you cannot be stopped, quite baldly and 7 cannot be stopped, quite baldly and ? cannot be stopped, quite baldly and simply. do you agree? i think he was making the point... do you agree? i think he was making the point that the electorate, having decided that we should leave, article 50 having been treated, he was effectively saying, we have to get on with it, it can't be stopped and we need now

to concentrate our energies, all our energies in trying to strike a deal that can be acceptable to our nation. of course it can be stopped, everybody knows it can be stopped, because the british government could unilaterally revoked article 50, which would mean that we stay in the eu, the european courts have already ruled on that, or indeed the british government could seek a delay of the leaving of the european union to give time, for example, for a second referendum. so to say it it can't be stopped is factually wrong. well they can certainly delay the question of article 50. it is my view that they should delay it. at the moment we are in a position or it looks as though the prime minister's deal is going to be defeated in parliament. and then there is a number of sequences that we have to go through, a vote of no confidence, a vote by parliament as to whether or not it is acceptable for a no deal, which would be catastrophic in my opinion. and

therefore there needs to be a solution and a way out of this. i am hoping that the government will accept that there needs to be an extension of article 50 to give more time for debate and discussion. so did jeremy corbyn misspeak when he said brexit can't be stopped? no, i don't think he did, the question you asked me was, is there any cohesion ina asked me was, is there any cohesion in a policy on the left for brexit? well, 18 months agojeremy corbyn put to the british people and ma nifesto put to the british people and manifesto that gave away out, it came within touching distance of power, had he won the election i believe now we would be out of the european union, by the 29th of march, but we would have an agreement, and an agreement that united the nation, both for 48% and the 52%. let'sjust pick away at that a little bit. jeremy corbyn says he has the basis for an agreement with the eu 27. he says frankly if he were in power he could deliver it very quickly. that

patently is not credible, because we have the president of the commission, jean—claude juncker, and every single head of government of the eu 27 saying the deal that theresa may, after tortured negotiation, the deal she finally struck with the eu 27 was notjust the best deal available but the only deal available. i don't accept that. imean, the deal available. i don't accept that. i mean, the reality is that, had labour won the last election, then i believe we would now have an agreement, because there was a different approach from corbyn than theresa may. if you recall back then, theresa may took and a as very aggressive stand. you can't rewrite history, mr mccluskey, and as i say to you in the last weeks and months the message has been simple, this is the message has been simple, this is the best deal, this is the only deal. so that is where we are. so when labour says we will go back to brussels and negotiate a completely different deal... i think they can. pate ntly they different deal... i think they can. patently they can't, not only

because the eu... you are making them mistake of assuming that europe would treat the labor party and a labour government in a different way that they treated a conservative government. and that is rewriting history. because when you say that this deal is being thrashed out after torturous negotiations, that is patents on. we didn't have any negotiations. we had no negotiations at all, which was clarity, other than a conservative govern who were trying to be aggressive, and we finally are told that, in the final weeks, as we ran up finally are told that, in the final weeks, as we ran up and ran out of time, they had thrashed out 2a hours a day to thrash out a deal, a deal that isn't ideal. what labour that would have done had they been in power, they would have approached europe and said, our people decided we wa nt europe and said, our people decided we want to come out, and we will respect that, but we want a close relationship. we want access, let me make this point, we want access to a

tariff free single market, so do europe! let's talk about where we are today. there is no point either of us dwelling too much on what might have happened in the past. where we are today is that there is an extraordinary rift developing between people such as yourself and jeremy corbyn, the atmosphere will ensure figures at the top of the leadership of the labour movement, and the memberships, both of your union and the labour party, too, paul after poll, revealed in the last few weeks want a second referendum, they want the chance, now that they have seen what deals are available, they want the chance to vote now on whether to push ahead with brexit or not. well, what opinion polls are we talking about? are these the same opinion polls that said that remain would win comfortably? are they the same opinion polls has said that labour that would be annihilated 18 months ago and it might be the end of the

labour party? the problem with opinion polls is that they have no credibility any more. don't they, in your view, any credibility any more? of all the agencies, the most recent one i have seen, january two, yougov poll of 108a members, 72% support a second referendum. 18%, not even close, 18%. .. but second referendum. 18%, not even close, 18%." but you have second referendum. 18%, not even close, 18%. .. but you have seen another opinion poll this week indicating that 56% of labour members are happy with the manner in which corbyn has dealt with this whole situation. you represent unite, you have more than! million members, you are the biggest trade union in britain, listen to one young unite member, elsie greenwood, who wrote this open letter to you, members that lemccluskey is meant to represent, the majority of them, young people such as my think, —— myself, think young people should back this vote. it is clear that these decisions go past party lines. hang on. it is important. unite

jobs, my members' colleagues' jobs and it is a fact that people including len need to recognise. and it is a fact that people including len need to recogniselj am including len need to recognise.” am delighted that someone like elsie isa am delighted that someone like elsie is a member of the union. i have 1.4 million members. as far as we can tell, from all of the evidence, a clear majority of your members... that is not true! well, it is true. no, it is untrue! i am the best judge of what the members want. over two years, judge of what the members want. over two yea rs, we judge of what the members want. over two years, we didn't do an opinion poll, we have had a brexit watch since the referendum results. and at that time, and right through, there doesn't appear to be any great movement within what our members a say. last year my policy conference, two 1/2—hour debate, high—level contributions, and we arrived at a particular policy. our policy

desperately is to have a general election, that is the people's vote that i want —— 2.5 hour. at general election that will enable the british people to make a judgement on going forward, including on the question of brexit. yes, but as you know, going back to the world of reality, it is not like the labour party and opposition members parliament can force another general election. i don't know that that is true yet, macro to, i don't know that that is true. there are sequences to go through. there will be vote of no—confidence. we don't know what the dup are saying if this deal is being forced through. we don't know whether they will withdraw their support for government, and that will make it impossible for the government to continue. you are right we are in the realm of uncertainty but again i wa nted the realm of uncertainty but again i wanted it away at the way in which the labour movement has been divided on this issue, so let's move away from opinion polls, let'sjust look at what other people in similar positions to yours have concluded, for example, tuc leader, the amalgamation of trade unions in the

uk, frances o'grady, she in her new yea rs uk, frances o'grady, she in her new years m essa g e uk, frances o'grady, she in her new years message made it quite plain that as far as she was concerned britain's workers need a second referendum, that is the only way she said to protect members' jobs. some of the biggest unions, your collea g u es of the biggest unions, your colleagues in the gmb for example that maybe be their official union policy that there should be a second referendum. why is your conclusion so different from all of theirs? because both the gmb and the tuc and unite have a common policy that we wa nt unite have a common policy that we want people's vote and we are calling it a general election and thatis calling it a general election and that is precisely what the tuc policies is, and michael colleagues in the gmb, i am very close to their leader, wants the same thing, now, you have to go through a number of sequential steps in order to see whether or not that should happen. the truth of the matter is i don't often agree with jacob rees—mogg, but he said just a few weeks back, when nearly 40% of conservative mps voted against the prime minister, he

said it would be normal convention for the prime minister is to step down. i believe that is still an issue. the prime minister has lost authority, credibility, and her government has lost the right to govern. now, in those circumstances, labour has to pursue its policies. sure, but if labour cannot deliver ona sure, but if labour cannot deliver on a general election, then you surely are duty—bound to consider the other option. of course. unlike many of your colleagues, you do not wa nt to many of your colleagues, you do not want to talk about a second referendum on... steven, that is not strictly true. i wrote an article just recently saying that a second referendum now looks very likely. it is not the preferred option for our movement. but my policy... a second referendum for you now looks very likely? in terms of the political developments, i made a statement that that is emerging. my union's

policy is... hang on, can i stop you for a second, because if you think a second referendum is very likely, your phrase now, what would unite's position be going into a second referendum? if there was a referendum, if there was a referendum, if there was a referendum requiring people to vote on remaining in the european union, my union's position would be to remain in europe. but the reality at the moment. no, stephen, whati remain in europe. but the reality at the moment. no, stephen, what i am saying is really important for me. labour ram an election 18 months ago and the manifesto was clear, it would axe that the democratic vote of the referendum and it would take us of the referendum and it would take us out of europe, but it would negotiate a deal. the mess that we are in is because this government, and theresa may clinging onto power, has put us into this situation — there is a vacuum. colleagues are now talking about norway plus because of the vacuum. people are

desperate. the one thing that unites everybody at the moment, two things, firstly, the deal is not good enough, and secondly, there shouldn't be a no deal. now, in the situation where, day by day, things change, my union will look at these developments very closely. that is our policy. and we will make decisions. ifi if i may say so, you have made a major change. insert them the 2018 you declared that remaining in the eu must not be an option. are you telling me today that you think a referendum is likely and if it does come, your union will advocate remain? if we have a referendum. the likelihood of it changing, you are quoting me in september, the likelihood of it now being a referendum has waned dramatically. surely you mean not waned but

increased? you surely you mean not waned but increased ? you don't surely you mean not waned but increased? you don't think the referendum encha nters have increased? i think what is happening is that the government stands has shifted dramatically as well. i think where we are at is that the secrecy think where we are at is that the secrecy of what we are going through will reach a point where the deal is rejected, there will be other options including today, talking about an amendment to a bill that means you can not have a no deal brexit. it has to bring with it an extension of article 50 and then debate and discussion must take place in relation to what the options are. an option of a general election is still very much on the cards. is it not the truth that behind all of this detail and the complications, and you are right, is uncertainty, isn't the truth that you and your close allyjeremy corbyn actually do not want written

to be in the eu at all? you should have come at it the campaign during the referendum. i went all over the country. i stood withjeremy corbyn on the same platform, remain and reform. the idea that europe is a pa na cea for reform. the idea that europe is a panacea for the working class is not true. but that is my point. you and jeremy corbyn feel that you can do deliver your socialist reject for britain much more effectively outside the eu. the reality is what we argued for was a reformed europe. and we have been vindicated. we have the rise of the fascist and neofascist right wing right across europe. we have austria, italy, and neofascist running their governments now. our appeal to our european cou nterpa rts now. our appeal to our european counterparts was austerity, which is triple —— crippled the whole of europe including britain needs to be changed. that if you are suggesting

that the political colour of the eu is increasingly right and centre right and is increasingly right and centre rightand anti— is increasingly right and centre right and anti— empathetic to the interests of the labour movement and you are also telling me that you see no sign of the eu preparing to take on what you would regard as necessary reform , we on what you would regard as necessary reform, we come back to this point, and jeremy corbyn put it ina guardian this point, and jeremy corbyn put it in a guardian interview recently where he said i do not want to be told by somebody else, meaning the eu, that we can not use state aid in order to develop industry in this country. so why not be honest and say you know what? we are done with the eu. obviously we have had a referendum result that tells us we are done with the eu and we are re—emerging from it. we very rarely have referendums. referendums are not a general election. a referendum isa not a general election. a referendum is a specific question on the specific issue. we have had that and therefore saying that we are out of

therefore saying that we are out of the eu does not negate the fact that what labour would have done is take us what labour would have done is take us out of the eu that we would have negotiated a deal that would have united the nation. is disingenuous at the moment is that the prime minister is trying to say she is trying to carry out the wishes of the british people. she has done nothing to placate the 52% who voted leave for two main reasons, the forgotten towns and cities that have been de— industrialised. the conservative government says nothing about investing into those communities. and the whole issue of migrant labour, the second issue that caused people to vote, the conservative party have said nothing about it. let's work it out for a moment. i know you are not so keen on polling evidence but a lot of evidence suggests that one of the key reasons that the uk voted to

leave the eu was that they were worried about migration. so you are saying that the tories are offering a ring on that, what does labour of a? labour offers labour market reform a is. when we come out of europe, the free movement of labour.. however, it will be replaced by another ability of labour. if you are negotiating access to a tariff free market then you have to develop one of the other fundamentals of the eu, the free movement of labour. : mobility of labour but it would be based on labour market regulations. at the moment. it is not migrant workers who are to blame, they are like you and me, they want to make a better life of themselves and their family. it is the greedy bosses who use migrant labour to undercut pay and conditions and caused so much distress amongst our communities.

you want to be in the closest of close relationships with the single market that you want to end the principle of removal and of labour. i struggle to see how the eu would buy that. of course it would. i remember a discussion, i don't often quote tony blair, but i remember an interview he did when he said look, we can stay in europe because we can still reach an agreement over the free movement of labour. i have spoken to many european leaders about it. the reality is of course you can have labour market regulations. if you negotiate that in the deal. i want to keep this simple. ina in the deal. i want to keep this simple. in a socialist corbyn led labour government would there be a pledge to cut migration? it is not about cutting migration. what pledge has a government ever given on immigration that it has ever come anywhere near to? it is dishonest. on the one thing aboutjeremy corbyn is that he is not dishonest. situation will be under a labour

government there will be labour market regulations that would stop the abuse of working people including migrant workers. the result of that, in my opinion is a reduction of migrant labour coming into the country because of greedy bosses, if they can not use and abuse them, they will not call upon them. just another thought about the future of a notional corbyn led socialist labour government in a post—brexit britain. you say that is inevitable, brexit will happen. every single economic analysis run by the imf for them the lead, whoever, all independent analyst say that brexit will be a net negative to the uk economy. you will be smaller after brexit then it would have been had brexit not happen. in that context, how it is don mcdonald, the putative chancellor, deliver on all the spending promises, the socialist building infrastructure and investment programmes that he has promised?

john gave the best answer when he was asked that question. he said he found the magic money tree that was planted in the cayman islands. he was going to uproot it and return it to the uk. that is £40 billion a year robbed from you and i, from the treasury, by greedy fatcats... year robbed from you and i, from the treasury, by greedy fatcats. .. and that will build a socialist britain? of course it would. £40 billion a year? downright it would. and the reality is that labour is given promises that ordinary working people are interested in. disorderly no deal brexit could cost up disorderly no deal brexit could cost up to eight or 9% of gdp over the next ten years. how all $40 billion from the cayman sulphur?” next ten years. how all $40 billion from the cayman sulphur? i agree, that would be catastrophic. that is why we oppose it. we do not want a no deal brexit. but the stance of the labour party today means you

could be the enablers of such a brexit. that is so facile an accusation. a conservative prime minister did it in a short term of time when we were asking for aalot term of time when we were asking for a a lot longer. it is a conservative prime minister in terms of theresa may who is now wasting two years with term of divisions and suddenly commentators want to try and blame jeremy corbyn for bringing about brexit. it is unfair and wrong. if labour was in power now we would have an agreement with europe that would unite our nation and would make certain that our economy, rather than slipping backwards with the investment and regional investment banks and national investment banks and national investment banks and national investment banks with the ability to investment banks with the ability to invest on manufacturing, we would

have an economy that was growing with real and decent jobs, have an economy that was growing with real and decentjobs, well—paid jobs are not the precarious race to the bottom that we currently have. we have run out of time but i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. hello there. high tides combined with brisk winds to give a little bit of coastal flooding across some parts of eastern england on tuesday. there were some showers as well, you can see the way these speckled shower clouds were racing from north to south, blown along on those strong winds. and the winds will still be quite brisk across the east on wednesday, still quite a few isobars, white lines on the chart. further west, high pressure builds in, the winds fall lighter.

but we do have a weak frontal system into the north—west. that'll bring some cloud and some patchy rain, but it will also usher in some slightly milder air. so this is how we start wednesday morning. quite windy, particularly in the east. those winds feeding some showers into eastern coasts of england. for many places, we're looking at a dry day, with some good spells of sunshine. but cloud will be thickening all the while for northern ireland and the western side of scotland, and here, we will see some patchy rain as that warm front starts to push its way in, but temperatures will start to rise. nine degrees there in stornoway. a little bit chillier from aberdeen down to glasgow, but here, we'll hold onto some brightness. northern ireland clouding over as the day wears on. and then across england and wales, many places fine with some sunshine. temperatures of five to eight degrees but it will be quite windy, particularly in the east. that wind feeding some showers into eastern coastal areas, and also making it feel a little bit colder than those temperatures suggest. but as we go through wednesday night, you can see on the map more cloud toppling south eastwards, but also milder air with it.

so a frost on thursday morning, likely to be confined to north—west england, the midlands, wales, and down towards the south—west. most other places will be starting thursday above freezing, but it will be pretty cloudy for most of us. where we have that chilly start in the south, that's where we're likely to have the best of the sunshine through the day. north—east england and north—east scotland also doing quite well for brightness and sunshine. but elsewhere, a lot of cloud, maybe the odd spot of drizzle, still quite chilly in the south, but those temperatures climbing across north—western parts of the uk. and more and more of us see that milder air spreading in as we get on into friday. still large slabs of cloud floating around, some spells of sunshine as well, and temperature wise, we're looking at highs of eight to 10 degrees. now, as we head towards the start of the weekend, an area of low pressure is going to pass just to the north of the british isles. this frontal system bringing some outbreaks of rain in northern areas on friday night, into the first part

of saturday, but that will tend to clear away, actually, leaving us with a lot of dry weather through the weekend. it will be fairly mild, fairly windy as well, and there is the chance of some rain at times in the north. this is the briefing — i'm sally bundock. our top story: president trump addresses the nation — saying his controversial mexican border wall is vital for america's security. this is a choice between right and wrong, justice and injustice, this is about whether we fulfil our sacred duty to the american citizens we serve. to the american citizens we serve. the democrats give their response, urging the president to re—open the federal government without delay. tonight and throughout this debate and throughout his presidency, president trump has appealed to fear, not facts, division not unity.