donald trump's described a meeting with democratic party leaders aimed at ending the partial shut down of the us government as a "a total waste of time." democrats again refused to approve funding for a border wall with mexico. they say the president threw a temper tantrum and walked out. opposition candidate felix tshisekedi has won the democratic republic of congo's tightly contested presidential election. he's promised the first peaceful transfer of power since the country became independent in 1960. but vote tallies by thousands of observers from the catholic church put rival martin fayulu ahead. australian police have arrested a 49—year—old man over 38 suspicious packages mailed to foreign embassies and consulates, including the us, uk, and south korea. the suspect is charged with sending dangerous articles through the post — some were marked as asbestos. you're up to date with the headlines. now on bbc news it's hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm at stephen

sackur. there is 20 of disturbing data pointing to a significant rise in overt anti—semitism in europe and the united states, why? 0ut in overt anti—semitism in europe and the united states, why? out of the jewish community respond? and how much reassurance and protection is being offered tojews whose past has so being offered tojews whose past has so often been written in blood? my guest is pinchas goldschmidt, chief rabbi of moscow, and president of the european conference of rabbis. is rising anti—semitism a symptom of 8“ is rising anti—semitism a symptom of 8——ofa is rising anti—semitism a symptom of 8 —— of a liberal democratic order thatis 8 —— of a liberal democratic order that is starting to crumble?

rabbi pinchas goldschmidt, welcome to hardtalk. thank you. there is a lot of evidence from surveys in opinion polls across europe suggesting thatjews feel much more insecure than they did ten, 20 years ago. why? attacks against the jewish community come from different places. there is the attack from islamic radicals, it islamic terrorism, as we have seen it in toulouse and paris and herbin hagen, and brussels. and we have attacks against religious practice ofjewish

religious practice in the european parliaments, outlawing practices to circumcision and preparing kosher meat and also the far left, with the far right, is getting stronger in many places in europe, and anti—semitism is back in vogue. anti—semitism is back in vogue, you say. the european union has its own survey of fundamental rights and agency devoted to that. and they say anti—semitism has become disturbingly normalised. so do you see governments across europe responding to that reality? governments are trying to respond to those different threats. we have seen, initially, governments providing, especially in western europe, providing for additional security forjewish institutions. we have seen, also, some preventative

measures against people who might become terrorists attacking jewish communities. 0n the other hand, we have seen much less action when it talks about the civil liberties and religious liberties of the jewish community. a asked you about actions and your level of satisfaction with those actions, because you said some things which suggest a deep dissatisfaction. you have referred to the numbers ofjews in europe declining. i think you and others have suggested there is roughly a 1596 have suggested there is roughly a 15% decline in europe's overall jewish population, and clearly that is tied to a significant number of jews choosing to leave and you have said this, "governments must take on responsibility properly protecting jewish citizens and until that happens the jewish community jewish citizens and until that happens thejewish community will remain unprotected is". are you saying thatjews across the continent of europe feel dangerously exposed and unprotected ?

continent of europe feel dangerously exposed and unprotected? in some countries there has been a discussion between the localjewish community and the government, who should pay for protection? in certain communities the cost of protecting a jewish day school, at a synagogue, a kindergarten, sometimes goes more than 50% of the annual budget of the community. and the community comes and tells the government, help us, and the government, help us, and the government tells the community, you are rich enough to take care of your own security needs. but maybe schools and churches and synagogues can protect themselves against theft, but terrorism, it is the government'sjob to theft, but terrorism, it is the government's job to protect the citizen against terrorism. you are 1 of the leading rabbis in effect community in europe. whenjewish families, jewish people come to you and say rabbi i feel very troubled, ido and say rabbi i feel very troubled, i do not feel safe in my community,

whether it be in your home country of russia or in today's hungary or germany or france or the united kingdom, whenjewish germany or france or the united kingdom, when jewish people germany or france or the united kingdom, whenjewish people say this to you, i no longerfeel kingdom, whenjewish people say this to you, i no longer feel safe, kingdom, whenjewish people say this to you, i no longerfeel safe, i am considering leaving, do you encourage them? i think that, in general, the people are leaving, and we are talking the official numbers in european union down from 2,000,000 toi.6 in european union down from 2,000,000 toi.6 million in european union down from 2,000,000 to 1.6 million jews in european union down from 2,000,000 to 1.6 millionjews in europe, they make up their mind on their own. they come to the rabbi only after that —— 2 million. i think at the end of the day, to emigrate, it is the decision of every family and individual. coming back to the big picture and the trent, you have been very outspoken about the degree to which you see echoes in current europe, echoes with a very dark past. he said recently we are going back to the

past. we are going back to a 1914 yearin past. we are going back to a 1914 year in europe, i don't think we can exclude the possibility of total dictatorships, where the situation ofjewish communities is going to become similar to those times when there were no democratic governments. are you serious about that? is europe so fragile?” governments. are you serious about that? is europe so fragile? i think the post—world war ii order was put into question and we are going through a loss of turbulence and i think that brexit is 1 of the symptoms —— lot of. other problems europe is going through. and there are quitea europe is going through. and there are quite a pupil at egel parties on the european continent whose political agenda is to leave the european union is make quite a lot of political parties will stop when we are having a conversation about anti—semitism and you choose to alight on politics and you make reference to a particular phenomenon in the united kingdom we know as brexit, surely you are making a very

dangerous and unwarranted association between a political movement, which, you know, is driven toa movement, which, you know, is driven to a certain extent by a form of nationalism, and then, at the other end of your spectrum, anti—semitism. and you clearly associate the 2 things or is it not extremely serious in its own way? nationalism does not always bring with it anti—semitism. but nationalism can bea anti—semitism. but nationalism can be a positive force and is has been a positive force in many political systems. however, once it is unchecked and what is a liberal democracy? it is aiming to —— minority my country that i totally disagree with that they can live as they want according to the faith they want according to the faith they would like to live with. if the premise of a liberal democracy is put into question, so is the welfare

of those minorities and religious groups also put into question. are you an agreement with the son of george soros, the financier, jewish financier who made enormous amounts of money in the financial markets of the united states, who has become something of a hate figure for particular nationalists in europe, and i'm thinking, for example, of hungarian nationalists and the most visible example of that would be prime minister viktor 0rban, his son, mr soros‘s son, alexander soros, said this recently, "something fundamental change in 2016 across the world" he associated it with donald trump as well, "there was lloyd langford, chairman of goldman sachs, all of them pointed out they were jewish. it was dog whistle language about special

interests. a genie was let out of the bottle." when you talk about your dark era, going back to 1914, do you see donald trump, the european nationalist movement, all of this of a peace, all of it a threat to the jews? i don't want to get involved too much in political discourse between right and left and if donald trump is part of the phenomena or the cause will stop but if we are talking about hungry, for example, we know the european union has many problems with hungry, taking hungry to court. we know that the jewish community and taking hungry to court. we know that thejewish community and hungary has trouble with its government. we know that the jewish community is trouble with its government. we know that thejewish community is quite unhappy with this new holocaust museum created by the government. so we have a certain problem in quite a few countries, they are rewriting revisionist history of the holocaust and this is against the local community. it's all about connections though. again, i am

mindful of, when that horrible, absolutely disgusting attack on jewish worshippers at the synagogue in pittsburgh in the united states happened, there were people who made links with donald trump's words on race and migration, donald trump's particular words after that cha rlottesville particular words after that charlottesville clash between neofascists and antifascist protesters when he said there were good people on both sides. are you somebody, because you are a very influential rabbi, are you somebody who worries that this problem does go to the very top in some of the most important countries in the world and that you feel political leaders have to be held to account? i think that the political discourse in europe, as well as in washington, has become much more divisive and, again, to accuse a certain political figure of being conducive to this, i would even go back to, i think it's

the internet to change much of the political discourse in the world. it has been used to get people to start terrorist attacks against the jewish community in europe. i think that this new world, which has been created by the internet, in this turbulence it has also created this new divisiveness in united states as well. interesting you talk about the internet and the degree to which it can facilitate the spread of hate and anti—semitism. i notice the french government is spending millions of dollars now on a specific online —based campaign to combat hate speech and anti—semitism. the german government has appointed an anti—semitism tsar. do you believe that these sorts of actions are going to make a difference? the answer is yes. i

think that's the internet is under regulated. i think the french laws which have dealt with that, punishing those who use the internet to call on violence and anti—semitism, that is the right way to go. the co—ordinator against anti—semitism of the european union and others are on the right track. not enough is being done. at the conference of european rabbis we are having a special side session at the next world economic forum in davos inafew next world economic forum in davos in a few weeks we will talk about the regulation of hate speech in the internet. we're talking about hate speech the internet. we have talked about the isolated acts of violence that have been in europe and, as it is discussed, in the united states as well. but you can play some of that, if i may say so, with some things that are very different. —— but conflict. at the conference of european rabbis you made a point of really hammering belgium and the

flanders region in particularfor their laws outlawing the slaughter of animals their laws outlawing the slaughter ofanimals in their laws outlawing the slaughter of animals in kosherfashion, the animal is clearly alive and fully conscious when it is bled to death and slaughtered. you said that the a cts and slaughtered. you said that the acts to outlaw that kind of animal killing are a form of anti—semitism. to most people in europe it is nothing to do with anti—semitism, it is simply about animal cruelty and preventing it. it is politically correct anti—semitism. let's take a look at the history of this law. the first country where this law was passed was switzerland. i am swiss born and in 1895 switzerland wanted to stop russian jews to emigrate in 1895 switzerland wanted to stop russianjews to emigrate to switzerland. it was an anti—immigration measure. let's go forward. 1933, hitler comes to power in germany. 0ne

forward. 1933, hitler comes to power in germany. one of the first anti—jewish laws passed in germany is this anti— shechita law. why? he wa nted jews is this anti— shechita law. why? he wanted jews to leave germany. but times change. i use suggesting to me, notjust times change. i use suggesting to me, not just belgium times change. i use suggesting to me, notjust belgium but a host of countries that have outlawed this form of animal slaughter, which, remember, isn'tjust form of animal slaughter, which, remember, isn't just threatening kosher slaughter, but halal slaughter as well, i use suggesting that the people behind the bands are driven by anti—semitism today in the zist driven by anti—semitism today in the 21st century in europe? these laws have much more to do with two leg at animals than 4—legged animals. it has to do much more with immigration and emigration than with any animals. so you see the line intent in people who claim to be acting in the interests of protecting animals from cruelty lice geert wilders from 2012 at the head of the far right party in holland says we have to stop islam. marine le pen used this in her presidential campaign. it is openly said, let's talk about

circumcision for a while. jews kabine living in europe for thousands years, for a thousand yea rs jews thousands years, for a thousand years jews have thousands years, for a thousand yearsjews have been attacked because of circumcision. why?, because of circumcision. why?, because there were a fewjews. how manyjews in europe today? 2 million. how many muslims? more than 40 million. again wejews are the collateral damage. interesting you put it in the historical context. throughout the interview i have fell from your consciousness notjust of the present bite of the past in europe and what has happened tojews in the past. interesting that the former chief rabbi in britain jonathan sacks said in the middle ages jews were persecuted jonathan sacks said in the middle agesjews were persecuted because of their religion, in the 19th and 20th centuries they were rishard because of their race, and today in the 21st—ce ntu ry of their race, and today in the 21st—century jews were of their race, and today in the 21st—centuryjews were attacked because of the existence of their nationstate israel. do you feel that israel has now become front and

centre in ways in which people who have anti semitic intent are now using the israel issue to get at the jewish people? not everyone who criticises israel is an anti—semite. however, if you go and you delegitimise israel, let's say another form of pds. that is the divestments. the boycott divestments, and you say that every people in the world have a right for a nationstate besides thejews, that's also another form of political anti—semitism. that's also another form of political anti-semitism. is it? it is anti— israel and its government and its policies in occupied territory, but is it anti—semitism? i think that... legitimate criticism of israel you can find in thejewish community as well, but there is a red line, which, when it is passed, i think that it is another form of anti—semitism. i think that it is another form of anti-semitism. when you observe in

britain the fallout between the jewish community and the leader of the main opposition party in the united kingdom, jeremy corbyn, leader of the labour party, with clear, over allegations from the jewish establishment that jeremy corbyn has aided and abetted anti—semitism, do you worry about the degree to which there is now this gulf between one of the main political parties and thejewish community in britain?” political parties and thejewish community in britain? i think that a jewish community anywhere in europe, also elsewhere, when it can vote for both main parties, and on the right and on the left, and if one of the parties comes to power and can continue to live if life in a normal fashion, that is a way for the jewish community to live in a secure fashion. if the jewish jewish community to live in a secure fashion. if thejewish community knows that if they are going to vote for one candidate they can flourish, if they vote for another party,

another party will come to power, this means great problems or an end to the jewish this means great problems or an end to thejewish history of this country, that is when the problem starts. only if you are suggesting to me thatjeremy corbyn's labour party is an existential threat to the jewish community in party is an existential threat to thejewish community in britain, are you seriously saying that?” thejewish community in britain, are you seriously saying that? i think that the british jewish community you seriously saying that? i think that the britishjewish community is the best to answer this question, however i have seen the turbulence. let us remember that despite all the allegations about jeremy corbyn let us remember that despite all the allegations aboutjeremy corbyn and his actions in the past, and his words in the past, jeremy corbyn insists that throughout his political career he has been a fighter against, and an enemy of all forms of racism, including, he a lwa ys forms of racism, including, he always says, anti—semitism. forms of racism, including, he always says, anti-semitism. that's maybe what he says, but i have seen the reaction of the jewish establishment here, i have seen what the rabbi jonathan sacks

establishment here, i have seen what the rabbijonathan sacks has said, that the person who is very careful with his word, and i think that after rabbi sacks said what he said, we in europe have to accept the opinion of the jewish we in europe have to accept the opinion of thejewish community. see, some observers of this debate and this argument, and this rift that has developed see a fundamental hypocrisy among many jewish that has developed see a fundamental hypocrisy among manyjewish people, because while they castigatejeremy corbyn for some of his associations in the past, some of his words in the past, they look across the water to israel, to the leader of israel, prime minister benjamin netanyahu, who just recently hosted for five days of warmth and friendship prime minister viktor 0rban of hungary, who has long associations with far right elements include anti—semitic elements in hungary, they see benjamin netanyahu making a point of journeying all the way to brazil to declare his friendship light and partnership with the new president of brazil, mr bolsinaro, who has a

long record of making statements which are deeply troubling in terms of attitudes towards minorities, gay people and women. where is the consistency here? i would like to say first of all to british jews, they are british citizens. when they vote for the president, for the prime minister of a member of parliament, the vote here in great britain, they don't vote in israel. now, the israeli prime minister... but nobody is accusing benjamin netanyahu but nobody is accusing benjamin neta nyahu of anti—semitism but nobody is accusing benjamin netanyahu of anti—semitism because he develops a very warm friendship with viktor 0rban who manyjews regard as deeply dangerous to the future ofjewish communities in europe. so what i was about to say is that benjamin netanyahu was selected by the israelis to take ca re of selected by the israelis to take care of israel. israel's government is first object is to make sure that an israeli child can walk to kindergarten in ber sheba without rockets exploding over his head. we

and the conference of european rabbis in europe are the cost 0deons of the jewish past —— rabbis in europe are the cost 0deons of thejewish past —— cost 0deons of the jewish past and the jewish future, so it is ourjob to make sure that in europejews can live well, in security... -- custodians. i understand what you're saying. let me ask you a blunt question, what do you as the chief of the conference of european rabbis, what do you think of benjamin netanyahu cosying up think of benjamin netanyahu cosying up to viktor0rban think of benjamin netanyahu cosying up to viktor 0rban and the leadership in poland, both of which have very troubling attitudes many jews in europe? i think that... tell me what you think. ok, i think that the israeli government many times deals with governments. i think in officially the government is also in touch with hamas and with other organisations which are not exactly fill a samite and they have to deal with them because they want to make sure that israel stays secure a ——

semites. i am sure that israel stays secure a —— semites. iam not sure that israel stays secure a —— semites. i am not going to criticise the israeli state government. however it is ourjob as european jews, as the conference of european rabbis, to make sure that thejewish communities are not going to be undermined by the far right. just a final thought, and it involves your personal life as well. you have made a life of the last three decades in russia and actually the position for jews in russia appears on the face of it to have improved over the last 30 years. i dare say you have been involved in that. benjamin netanyahu again, quoting him, when there are serious, horrible terror attacks which involve jewish serious, horrible terror attacks which involvejewish people being killed in europe, he always says to the jews off, in killed in europe, he always says to thejews off, in this case, i am quoting france, thejews of europe, he says, listen, israel isn'tjust the place in whose direction you pray, the state of israel is your home, and israel is waiting for you with open arms. as a europeanjews who has made a life in russia, do you think it is wise and helpful for the israeli prime minister to

co nsta ntly the israeli prime minister to constantly tell jews the israeli prime minister to constantly telljews that ultimately, by implication, the only safe place for jews ultimately, by implication, the only safe place forjews is israel?” think that israel is adding to the safety of jews think that israel is adding to the safety ofjews not only to the jews living is israel —— in israel but also the jews living is israel —— in israel but also thejews living outside of israel. if tomorrow, god forbid, the state of israel did not exist any more, i think the situation ofjews in the whole world will change radically. we know what it meant to bejewish... radically. we know what it meant to be jewish. .. i totally understand that. i don't think you are answering my specific point. is it your perspective that israel is ultimately the only safe place, truly safe place for the jewish people? so, it is the job of an israeli prime minister, is rayleigh politicians to invitejews to come to israel. it is ourjob of the conference of european rabbis to make sure that jews conference of european rabbis to make sure thatjews in europe can live safely. and you believe they can? i believe that the future of jews in europe is dependent on the

future of europe. if europe gets its act together, and we are going to go through these changes and turbulence, and europe is going to come out as a stronger entity, a safe entity, that i think there is also a quantity which —— continuity forjews in europe. pinchas goldschmidt, i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. thank you very much indeed. hello. 0ur weather prospects are still looking comparatively quiet through the next few days. if anything, our major shift will be to rather more cloudy weather. today, though, some slightly milder air making a return to our shores for some, but not actually in the most traditional way that we see milder air arriving. normally it comes sweeping up from the south—west

off the atlantic. at the moment we have high pressure, and our milder air will be toppling in to the north of it, behind a warmer weather front which is sinking its way south. so first thing, still very chilly with a frost across southernmost counties of england. this line of cloud here just about marks out the warm weather front. to the rear of it, quite a lot of cloud through the course of the day, butjust slightly milder weather than we saw through midweek. so top temperatres in double figures for belfast. we're going to struggle at around 6 or 7 in the likes of cardiff and london. and we will struggle throughout the day, i think, to see much in the way of sunshine. 0vernight thursday into friday, that weather front slides away into the continent. plenty of cloud around, and we sit in the relatively milder air. so our map is green for first thing friday, rather than seeing that blue as we will do to the south first thing thursday. temperatures — well, they're down the lower end of single figures, but essentially frost—free to get friday under way. another day offering us quite a lot of cloud. we have got a northerly breeze, but remember it's tipped around that area of high pressure,

so instead of actually coming straight from the arctic, it's been modified by the atlantic. hence things will start to get milder, actually, as that northerly breeze drags the milder airfurther south. so, for the weekend, our temperatures making a return closer to average. it could be quite windy through the weekend, actually, as areas of low pressure try to erode this high. the isobars become increasingly tighter packed. much of the rain will fizzle out before it sinks too far south, i think, across the uk. greatest chance of any significant rain probably for northern ireland and scotland, but quite cloudy on saturday. as i said, it will be a windy day as well and temperatures more typically average values for the time of year, perhaps 10—12 degrees. some brightness, hopefully, across eastern counties. similar picture again for saturday, the high still sitting to the south—west. this low tumbling over the top of it, bringing some rain in briefly, i think, to scotland, northern ireland, perhaps some patchy rain

for northern england. if anything, perhaps sunday the slightly brighter day of the two. and again, temperatures a little more favourable than we've had in recent days — back into double figures for most of us. this is the briefing, i'm maryam moshiri. our top story: disruptive and deadly. record snowfall hits parts of europe. there are avalanche alerts for austria and the alps. the democratic republic of congo names its new president. felix tshisekedi promises the country's first peaceful transfer of power. us secretary of state mike pompeo is in the middle east with a reassurance of his country's commitment to the region. in business: rough road ahead forjaguar land rover. the luxury carmaker to announce thousands ofjob cuts as it battles brexit, diesel decline, and a china slowdown. also coming up in the business briefing: hopes of a trade war truce