tv BBC News at Six BBC News January 16, 2019 6:00pm-6:30pm GMT
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tonight, the drama continues in westminster — the fate of the government is about to be decided this is a bbc news special. i'm christian fraser live at westminster — where theresa may is back in the house of commons to face a vote of no confidence in her government. after last night's historic defeat on her brexit deal the prime minister faces mps once more — this time to fight for her future. the prime minister has lost control and the government has lost the ability to govern. it would deepen division when we need unity, it would bring chaos when we need certainty and it would bring delay when we need to move forward. this is the scene inside parliament — mps have been debating for more than five hours and vote in an hour's time. and in europe, shock at the scale of theresa may's parliamentary defeat — brussels says it's up to the uk government to clarify its next steps. welcome to westminster,
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where in an hour's time, theresa may's government will face a vote of no confidence in the house of commons, just a day after she suffered a massive defeat there. labour says she's presiding over a zombie government and should resign, but the prime minister says an election is not in the national interest. mr corbyn‘s motion is backed by the snp, the lib dems, plaid cymru and the green party but it's unlikely to be enough to topple the government. last night, mps rejected theresa may's brexit deal in the biggest commons defeat in history. the withdrawal agreement was defeated by a majority of 230 votes. the commons is debating the motion of no confidence submitted by labour. mps will begin voting in an hour, but the government is expected to survive because all conservative mps and their allies in the dup should form a majority. we'll be building up to that vote,
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and hear some of the closing speeches from tom watson for the labour party and michael gove speaking for the government. but first let's look back on the day's events, with our political correspondent jonathan blake. facing a new day and a new fight for her survival. theresa may left downing street on the morning after her nightmare i féfi6u§§0 cg 6 s. against her brexit deal. ihe primeminister 2222252 ! but because no conservative mps want that and the prime minister's allies in the dup have said
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they will back her, she is expected to win. nevertheless, jeremy corbyn opened the debate and argued that it was time for the government to go. this government cannot govern and cannot command the support of parliament on the most important issue facing our country. every single previous prime minister in this situation would have resigned and called an election. it is the duty of this house to show the lead where this government has failed and pass a motion of no confidence so that the people of this country can decide who their mps are and who their government is, and who will deal with the crucial issues facing the people of this country. i commend my motion to the house. theresa may acknowledged her defeat yesterday, but was defiant against the challenge to her authority. last night, the house rejected the deal the government has negotiated with the european union. today it has asked a simpler question — should the next step be a general election? i believe that is the worst
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thing we could do. it would deepen... it would deepen division when we need unity. it would bring chaos when we need certainty. and it would bring delay when we need to move forward. so i believe this house should reject this motion. the man theresa may replaced as prime minister, and who called the eu referendum, offered his thoughts today. obviously, i regret the difficulties and the problems that we've been having trying to implement the result of that referendum, but i don't think it is going to be helped by me giving a running commentary. i support the prime minister and i support her aim to have a partnership deal with europe, that is what needs to be put in place and what parliament needs to deliver, and she has my support as she tries to do that. so what now? theresa may has said it's time to talk and there is no shortage of ideas around here about the best way forward for brexit.
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but what is ideal for one group of mps is the worst—case scenario for another. and theresa may's attempt to keep everybody happy has ended up pleasing no—one. so, after the watershed moment in parliament, the different groups who want different things are gathering to get themselves heard. i think the only credible option for the uk now is to put this back to the electorate. the government, parliament, has failed and we can't go on hoping for the unicorn to appear out of nowhere. one cabinet minister suggested the government would look at staying in a customs union with the eu, a big shift in policy which brexiteers in his party won't like one bit. i think the right answer would be to leave the customs union, but given where we are, we have to be open to proposals that are put forward and make an assessment on those... so it's on the table? well, i'm using my words but you can use your words. i think we should not be... if we're going to engage, we have to engage and we shouldn't be boxing ourselves in.
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if we go forward and the prime minister breaks a manifesto commitment to deliver a customs union, then i'm afraid i wouldn't like to call how big the split would be in the party. just hours after the vote, the government is clamouring to find common ground. theresa may will have to do more than just listen to mps on all sides if she is to have any hope of finding a clear way through. jonathan blake, bbc news, westminster. with me are two men who voted against the prime minister's brexit deal — the conservative mp, johnny mercer. tell us about a big set piece event like this because what happens for backbench mps like yourself? there are chances to speak and put your view across and then you listen to as many as you can, i have been
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there all afternoon and i will go back after this interview and then the vote comes at a set time but you need to be there and are before that in case a motion is called. so you are tightly marshalled, they want to know where you are. it's your responsibility where you are; ' ' .,,. ' ' know where you are. it's your responsibility where you 53’s: i' ' .,,. ' ' responsibility where you are, i would look silly if i didn't turn up. what could happen by monday if the prime minister has to present what she wants to do next? she needs to look at this in a new way. people voted for brexit for all sorts of different reasons, in plymouth it was the hope it gave to people and i understand that, we cannot then come to london and so the deal is not very good so take it anyway and we will move on, this is a big deal to
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a lot of people that represents aspiration that got them out to vote in bigger numbers than before. things like sovereignty around ireland and the european court of human rights, those are issues to people in plymouth, people in london talk about savings and interest rates, they don't care so much because they don't have any savings so this deal has to match what people voted for. with your constituents in mind and that demand for sovereignty, when you voted against the deal last night, what changes might she compliment that would get you to vote for it? let's look at northern ireland, the uk is becoming a junior partner in an international relationship, when people vote for sovereignty that is not taking back control, there are
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other things around the european court ofjustice, £39 billion is a lot of money for something you don't think is very good, so there are elements that are really good work qualifications have been recognised in europe, citizens‘ rights, iam not saying throw it all out but let‘s listen to what people are saying and the prime minister cannot keep doing the same thing. you might have heard thejustice secretary today talking about what happens next and the red line is the prime minister is sticking to, he suggested that maybe those red lines have to turn pink and the conservatives have to find a compromise with labour, would you support that? i would, compromise with labour, would you support that? iwould, ithink coming into this, it was a mass divisive issue and i would try to bind everyone together, make it an
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issue of national importance. there are millions of labour voters who voted for this as well. we have to come together and meet this challenge, get everybody in and meet this challenge of what people voted for because there was no unilateral way that this prime minister could drive through legislation. it‘s been painful to watch and i don‘t want to see that again, i want to see us work together so we can move on.|j will have to let you go, johnny, because i know they will be calling soon. let‘s cross to the lobby. over there is our chief political correspondent, vicki young, and we don‘t expect the prime minister to lose this vote. no, because the brexiteers who helped inflict that huge defeat last night have all said they will vote for the conservative government so that is clear and the
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dup have said the same, but there is some anxiety in downing street, we could say that and be confident but as they would see it they have had the biggest defeat in history inflicted last night, many in their own party are unhappy and the last thing they wanted to do today was fun those claims and risk anything so that is why the prime minister and staff have been cautious about what they will do next because the idea that theresa may would pick up the phone tojeremy corbyn, that might not have gone down too well, after this is out of the way if she wins then things might change and plans are being put in place, one minister said this would be formal and organised, it had to be clear what they want and they will speak to not just labour what they want and they will speak to notjust labour but other opposition parties and parliamentarians, so that is to come in the next few days. let‘s speak to
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ki rsty in the next few days. let‘s speak to kirsty blackman from the snp. has your party had the call to meet with the prime minister? the first minister had a call last night but she said today she believed the prime minister's position was delusional because even after that large defeat, she still doesn't seem to want to change her deal in any fundamental way so she will come to talk to us about this but she needs to come with an open mind and listen to come with an open mind and listen to us, we will ask to extend 50 immediately, she will have to go to brussels and ask for that and we wa nt brussels and ask for that and we want for our people's vote, she cannot get her deal through the house of commons and it's clear that she cannot but she needs to put it to people, she needs to put it to them against the choice to remain in
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them against the choice to remain in the eu. there is nothing she could say that would bring new onside because you are not looking for a deal, you just want to stay in the eu and you want a second referendum, you are not in the market for a negotiated deal. yes, we want to stay in the eu but back in december 2016 we were saying that if the uk was going to leave the eu, it should stay in the customs union and single market, and theresa may refused to listen to that position and chose to pander to when that was never going to theimuse i. theimuse and the belief that - brexit belief that brexit the belief that - could. = the he belief that - could. = the house only thing that could pass the house was that possible a relationship to the eu. do you think parliament and the house of commons
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could genuinely have power in this? there have been shenanigans about meaningful votes and amendments but do you think that come next week when those amendments go down, it is a chance for parliament to have a say? i think it is and that is quite the snp are continuing to try to work with people across parties, whether it's for a people's vote for the meetings we had on customs union and single market membership which we had with applied comrades, the greens and the lib dems and we invited labour but they didn't come. we have been reaching out to try and build consensus and theresa may needs to do that rather than try to pander to the needs to do that rather than try to panderto the erg. needs to do that rather than try to pander to the erg. thank you, kirsty blackman. we will have to see what form those talks take and where they get the prime minister because many
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of her own mps can see her dilemma, if she moves more towards softer brexit, we had members of her own party saying they would split the party, the other option is no deal, which many people think would be bad for the country so those are the two options, as she keeps pointing out you have to replace that no deal to default position with something else and that is what she will try to do in the next few days. indeed, it is a conundrum. let me read you one line from the dup, arlene foster and parliamentary leader nigel dodds have met the prime minister this evening, arlene foster said they had a useful discussion, these are critical times for the uk and we indicated that we would act in the national interest so they will vote with the government tonight. she
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said lessons will need to be learned from the vote in parliament, the issue of the backstop needs to be dealt with and we will work to that end. let‘s pick up with katy balls and the guardian columnist polly toynbee. the first formal confidence vote since the fixed—term parliaments act came in and it may not be the only one in the weeks to come. it looks like theresa may is on course to win this barring a massive shock, but this will not be the last because labour‘s plan is to have lots of confidence votes and hope one works and you get to an early election, and theresa may will find it harder to windows as she has to tell mps what plan b is for a brexit deal because that is when she makes enemies, whether your sceptics oi’ makes enemies, whether your sceptics or cori remainers. it's a difficult
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balancing act forjeremy corbyn because obviously he wants an election but if he keeps bringing forth votes of no confidence, he will be seen by many voters as getting in the way of progress. yes, it has to be played with care but it theresa may makes this sort of move he wants, suppose she did change her mind and went for a customs union and approached labour's position, he would then be in a good position to call for yet another vote of confidence because she would lose so many of her erg or extreme brexiteers, sol many of her erg or extreme brexiteers, so i think it might be seen as dirty play if he engaged in talks with her that she has not leaned out to him at all, she hasn't spoken to him and when she talks about wanting to be consensual it doesn't include the labour leaders,
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and until she does that labour could make as much mayhem as they like. and until she does that labour could make as much mayhem as they likem does seem strange that she said she would reach out to senior parliamentary figures and wouldn‘t reach out to the leader of the opposition, given thatjeremy corbyn is more brexit than she is. in her defence, the first thing jeremy corbyn did after she lost that vote last night was try to bring down her government, which didn‘t send a message that they would have cross— party message that they would have cross—party consensus message that they would have cross—pa i’ty consensus as message that they would have cross—party consensus as the first thing on his mind, and it looks toxic to the conservative party for theresa may to be close tojeremy corbyn but some mps like hilary benn and yvette cooper in the labour party, who are seen more as figures who act in the national interest and those are figures she could get away
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with having dialogue with. but any opposition would have had to hold this vote of no—confidence. we have had the most cataclysmic failure of any government, so had the most cataclysmic failure of any government, so how could any opposition not say this prime minister should fall? and we want a general election and do we want brexit or remain? they want an election, i think the only position they could fetch up with, given that 80% of labour members want another referendum, and they are remainers, labour would have to enter a general election saying they would promise the voters that they get the final site and we ourselves will be remainers. but some labour voters would see that as a betrayal of the vote in 2016? but not half as many as the other way round, if labour
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goes to assist brexit it will lose millions of votes, probably to the liberal democrats and the greens. it has many more remainers and relatively few leavers in some difficult seat, ha rd—fought relatively few leavers in some difficult seat, hard—fought mps but the majority of support is for remain. the prime minister said she is sticking to her red lines, but could she maybe make those lines more pink after this provoked a night? perhaps because if she does stick to her red lines these will be short conversations across the house. there is not much to talk about, she‘s not willing to budge on the customs union or freedom about, she‘s not willing to budge on the customs union orfreedom of movement so it‘s hard to see where these conversations will go. her priority is to get through the vote but when she won the vote called by her own mps
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but when she won the vote called by her own mstust but when she won the vote called by her own mps just before christmas, the point was that once she had won that she was immune from the challenge for a year, but that is not the case here so even after this vote has gone away, she is not out of the danger zone. if we get are motion on monday were some detail, presumably we will get some indicative votes on where a majority may like so would you have a vote on a second referendum or the norway option or canada? parliament has to seize control because effectively we don't have a government, this government has almost fallen because it cannot get a majority so parliament has to ask its own members what they want and then there will be a fight for what order those indicative votes come in because everyone wants to be the la st because everyone wants to be the last man standing and the people's vote people would say they want to
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be the last option when everything fails to get a majority, turned back to the people. polly and katie, nice to the people. polly and katie, nice to see you both. let‘s consider the reaction to last night‘s vote from other parts of the eu. the german chancellor angela merkel said there was still time to negotiate, ahead of the uk‘s scheduled departure on the 29th of march. the eu‘s chief negotiator michel barnier said he profoundly regretted the commons vote and that it was now up to the british government to say how it intended to proceed. the irish prime minister leo varadkar says his government‘s contingency plans for a no—deal brexit were now being implemented. 0ur europe correspondent adam fleming reports from strasbourg. quite a contrast to the prime minister can face when
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she talks to mps about brexit, this is how the eu chief "brexit" negotiator was received in the european parliament. despite his plan‘s heavy defeat last night. it is too early to address the consequences of this vote, we have always respected and we continue to respect the democratic parliamentary debate in the uk and i will not speculate on different scenarios. eu leaders are in a bullish mood. in a coordinated media blitz starting moments after last night‘s vote they quickly doused any illusions that the eu would now rush forward with compromise solutions. the eu insists the ball is now in the uk‘s court. translation: it is now up to the uk to tell us what happens next, we still have time to negotiate but we will first wait to hear from the british prime minister. what ireland does not want to hear from theresa may is a demand for changes to the backstop, that fallback plan in the brexit deal to avoid a hard border between the republic of ireland and northern ireland. some people may believe that a hard border can be
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avoided just by saying there will not be one. in order to avoid it you need an agreement on customs and regulations and that is why the backstop is so important. so far, the eu has not flinched in its support for the backstop. there are only ten weeks to go until brexit day but the eu is still taking the long view, they will not budge now until mps start uniting around one particular alternative to theresa may‘s plan, and even then, brussels is not making any promises. there is a growing sense here that mps could still go for a softer brexit or a second referendum resulting in maybe no brexit at all. that is why the eu prefer that the dust will settle before they take any action. which could take a while. emanuel macron is one of many eu leaders assuming the government will now end up asking the eu for more time, effectively delaying brexit. translation: that is what they will
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do, i know them, first they come to us asking for improvements, eventually, they will decide it is going to take more time to renegotiate something. for now, in brussels, it is an exercise in watching the uk, waiting for change, and hoping eu unity lasts until this brexit process is resolved. and our europe correspondent damian grammaticas is in brussels. damien, i wonder why the eu would wa nt to damien, i wonder why the eu would want to offer the uk something more when it knows the government is tacitly backing a backbench motion which would rule out no deal. with the eu think we could set this out and maybe the uk comes back to bus? certainly what the eu sees at this point is this fog of political
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confusion enveloping london and they will not move, they have made clear today, until that lifts and there is an idea of what will now happen on the uk side, so the eu believe they have already gone very far in the deal on the table, that that does address a lot of issues that need to be addressed if the uk is leaving, citizens and money and all those and issues go 44:55:53.3; 2:5?! 4-225; {355—425 £2:a- i375 , . .,,. 7 ., , w, 24:55:53.2: 2-:55=! 24:55:52; {25255—4225 =":':: 53'5:5 . . .,,. 7 ., . .., the questions are now for - uk government to answer ab“) . f 7— questions are now for - uk government to answer q sort = questions are now for - uk g( deal nent to answer q sort= questions are now for - uk g( deal they to answer q sort= questions are now for - uk g( deal they want, .wer g sort= and what we did from the irish prime minister here from the irish prime minister and michel barnier was this statement that if it theresa may‘s original red lines, if they change the eu would respond very quickly. that would not change the bulk of
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the deal but it could change the prospect for what future relationship there was and that could shift things in parliament in london but at the moment the eu says the uk has to work out what it wa nts. the uk has to work out what it wants. it's interesting you point to the future relationship because barry gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, said today he might be able to accept the withdrawal agreement if they could shape the future relationship and change the detail in that, because thatis change the detail in that, because that is non—binding, could they reopen part of that if the government moves on its red lines?|j think that is possible and that is what michel barnier signalled today, so did leo varadkar, and that is the easy thing for the eu to reopen that political document that goes alongside the withdrawal treaty,
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which talks about the future relationship and that document at the minute is vague because the way theresa may negotiated with her own red lines, she left it vague so it appealed to everybody, it doesn‘t really fix anything which is part of the reason this deal has had so many problems in parliament, so i think thatis problems in parliament, so i think that is one offer that the eu can‘t make but that again comes back to the difficulty which is what would get through parliament in westminster? what could theresa may get a majority for, what does she wa nt to get a majority for, what does she want to achieve, and that is still a question that eu leaders are focusing on. the scale of the defeat yesterday has forced a question to the front and they will wait for a nswe rs. the front and they will wait for answers. which is why those indicative votes on monday could be
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important. angela merkel says she is prepared to look again, i sense there is a firmer line coming from there is a firmer line coming from the french and maybe powerflows through paris more at the moment. is it really the french taking the lead on this? you always have this push and pull going on and those two big polls, paris and berlin, and you have a more pragmatic side in berlin with angela merkel, driven a bit more by german economic industrial interests and that strategic situation, wanting to read some settle m e nt situation, wanting to read some settlement of this issue with all the other issues around europe, in paris you have president macron, much tougher line that he is inclined to take with the uk, he said today that the pressure was now on the uk and you heard him saying
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in the report that he expected the uk to come back and ask for more time, his europe minister today said the problem is uk politicians and they could not agree on anything. who holds the whip hand? i think we see a pragmatic coming together of both and if any thing pragmatism won until now but we will see as the pressure goes on who digs in most and if that deadline continues to creep closer without resolution, people will face some tough choices. this i mentioned earlier that we had some detail on the meeting between nigel dodds, the parliamentary leader of the dup, and arlene foster, talking to the pm about where we go.
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