good morning. it's tuesday, 103m. it's tuesday, 10am. i'm victoria derbyshire. he was mocked for his disabilities. people have done videos on him, they've mocked him into sweet packets. i mean, you name it, he's done it. he can't speak to defend himself. ican. she set up the online petition, which led to a parliamentary inquiry and a group of mps have today concluded that katie price is right — online abuse of disabled people should be classed as a criminal offence. we'll bring you the story. tell us what you think. also today — we'll know the contenders for this year's oscars in a few hours. will there be a host of brits in contention? who did your make—up? we went for something dramatic, do you like it? you look like a badger. 0h. i want to give the audience a song that they can perform. so, what can they do? we'll run you through the strong contenders at about 10.30am. and are vegans making "misleading"

and "misguided" claims about the benefits of an animal product free diet? the national sheep association thinks so. they have hit back at veganuary. we've brought together a sheep farmer and a vegan campaigner to talk about the claims and counter—claims. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11am this morning. have you received abuse online because of your disabilty? after katie price spoke out about the trolling of her son, a group of mps have today suggested it shld be made a hate crime. do you agree? have you experienced it? come on the programm on facetime and tell us about it so do put your fone nyumber in your email. martin says it is a dangerous precedent, patronising to disabled

people. if someone abuses me, i will stick up for myself. david says it is awful but going through the courts every five minutes is turning us courts every five minutes is turning us into a sue culture for every tiny thing. education is far better. keep courts for more serious crimes. mark adds what about the disability abuse from the government? let us know your views and we will talk more about it after the news. here's annita mcveigh with a summary of the days news. more on that story victoria has just been mentioning. 0nline abuse of people with disabilities should be made a criminal offence, according to a new report by mps. they've backed a petition calling for new laws, started by model katie price. more than 220,000 people supported her demand to make online abuse a criminal offence, after she flagged up trolling about her son harvey's disabilities. the house of commons petitions committee also said the self—regulation of social media has failed. cardiff city football club has expressed "genuine concern" that an argentine footballer, emiliano sala, whom they'd signed from the fench club nantes,

was on a flight, which disappeared between france and cardiff last night. a search is going on for the piper malibu plane, which had two people on board. unconfirmed reports in the french media suggest the 28—year—old striker was one of them. zimbabwe's president, emmerson mnangagwa, has broken off a trip to the davos economic summit to address the violent protests that have gripped his country for the past week. he called for national dialogue and pledged to investigate reports of a brutal crackdown by his security forces — warning that "heads will roll". the opposition says its mps and supporters have been targeted, but ministers accuse them of using the protests, about rising fuel prices, to stoke unrest. human rights groups believe at least 12 people have been killed and many more detained and tortured. the outcome of brexit ahead of next week's major vote on theresa may's alternative withdrawal plan. a number of amendments have been put forward, mrs may will meet her cabinet later,

after telling the commons that she would try and secure concessions from the eu on the plan to avoid a hard irish border. tech companies should use their own software to identify people at risk of suicide, block them from seeing harmful content and offer help and advice. that call comes from the government's suicide prevention minister who says social media companies are exposing users, especially children, to graphic material about self harm. police are appealing for information after a man used a digger to destroy the reception of a new hotel on the day the building was due to be completed. the destruction went on for at least 20 minutes at the travelodge on edge lane in liverpool, before the driver eventually fled. eyewitnesses claimed the driver had been involved in a pay dispute. cristiano ronaldo has accepted a fine and suspended jail term for tax fraud, signing

a deal to settle a case, which will cost him a total of 18.8 million euros. the 33—year—old juventus forward is unlikely to serve any time in jail as the sentence was expected to be within a two—year threshold that can be served on probation as a first offence under spanish law. back to victoria. in just over half an hour, we're going to be talking about a campaign to get the government to extend the length of time that women can freeze their eggs. at the moment, if you freeze your eggs, in most cases, they get automatically destroyed after ten yea rs. fertility experts think that's an arbitrary deadline and they've been talking to the health minister this week. we'll be finding out how that meeting went, in about half an hour. do get in touch with us throughout the morning — use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. should online abuse of people with disabilities be made a criminal offence?

katie price, mum of 16—year—old harvey, thinks so. harvey has complex disability needs and has received horrible trolling online because of his disabilites. today, a group of mps have agreed with the mum of five, and recommended that disabled people should get the same protections under hate crime laws as those who suffer abuse due to race or religion. here's katie price talking about this last year. it started with my son, harvey, he's got complex disability needs and the amount of racial abuse he gets, he gets mocked for his disabilities, people have done videos on him, you name it, he's done it. he can't speak to defend himself. i can. how dark is some of the stuff you've had to face as a family? anyone is

allowed freedom of speech. people know when you cross the line. and that's when something needs to be done. i couldn't even say on here 110w done. i couldn't even say on here now what things are said about harvey. it's absolutely atrocious and people shouldn't get away with it. but the thing is, if someone said it live like us now, you would get in trouble. but because it is online and written down, people don't take it as serious. i've had two people arrested by the police, they took it as far as they could but they couldn't charge them with anything because there is nothing in place. it's not just anything because there is nothing in place. it's notjust people with disabilities, it could be anyone, 93v, disabilities, it could be anyone, gay, straight, in the workplace, teacher, teenager, anything. something needs to be done, there is nothing in place whatsoever so i will fight as much as i can to get online abuse a criminal offence. what about that argument of free speech? some people will say, yes, that stuff is awful, but we have to allow people to say even awful things, because that's part of our democracy. absolutely, allow freedom of speech, because you can say things that people don't agree with

but there are certain things. maybe when i say, why don't you go and die? why don't you kill yourself, i don't like the colour of your skin? things like that and even worse which i can't say, we have to discuss at which level you should charge people. in the last hour, katie has tweeted: "i am very pleased that my campaign has been taken so seriously by parliament. we will not stop until this is a crime. # ha rveys law". here are some of the tweets harvey price has received. this is a tweet addressed to katie — "i've got some sweets for harvey here, i hope he chokes on them". "why does harvey price look like a member of the ira?" and here is a tweet from a now suspended twitter account created just to post memes and abuse aimed at harvey. let's talk to the labour mp helenjones, chair of the house of commons petitions committee. mencap. kevin quit twitter because

of abuse about his autism. he is a mistake. thank you for talking to us. mistake. thank you for talking to us. helenjones, mistake. thank you for talking to us. helen jones, let mistake. thank you for talking to us. helenjones, let me begin with you. what kind of abuse did you discover was being aimed at people with disabilities? we discovered that sadly, harvey's abuse was not unique. lots of people receive appalling abuse online, been told you should have been aborted, you have no right to live. and they have often been told they are not disabled, they are a fraud. so that many of them are then advised to not use social media at all. we don't think that's any more acceptable than telling people not to go out, because they might receive abuse. it has to be dealt with. it has a real effect on people's health and well—being. many disabled people

rely on social media to connect with others, to advance their careers, for campaigning and so on. so, to deny them the use of that we think is profoundly wrong. kevin, you have autism, as opposed to a disability. you have received abuse online. tell oui’ you have received abuse online. tell our audience about that. as you know, victoria, we have spoken before. i have received disability abuse on social media, like harvey has received impersonation, i received twitter impersonation. i quit twitter a few years back. it is my voice, it is part of me communicating to the outside world. i have been campaigning for many years on social media, to make disability abuse a hate crime. i have spoken to many people in parliament. i have been campaigning on the subject for nearly nine years now. i will be glad when the day comes when disability hate crime law

is made a serious offence and that people are prosecuted. you say there was a twitter impersonator, what we re was a twitter impersonator, what were they doing in your name? it was a fake account? yes, they were basically claiming my twitter account and pretending to be me. and impersonating me. i got the police involved, cid involved. police came to my house and took exhibits away, to my house and took exhibits away, to try to track and locate these people but they... we are powerless. the social media giants are hugely responsible for, you know, for online abuse but they simply don't do enough. when the police intervene with the social media giants, it can ta ke with the social media giants, it can take them up to six months to get all the relevant information to take all the relevant information to take a prosecution to the cps. by that time, it's way after six months and then the police are absolutely powerless. i will bring in amy clark

from mencap and who gave evidence to helen jones's committee from mencap and who gave evidence to helenjones's committee and rob holland is here from mencap as well. amy, what kind of things, what kind of abuse have you received online? when ijoined of abuse have you received online? when i joined a of abuse have you received online? when ijoined a group on facebook, somebody commented about the point of the group to do with tv programme that the bbc does. and it is rude to me and used the r word. i left the group. i reported it. i did not have a lot of feedback but i was pleased he got rid of it quickly. how did it make you feel when he called you the r word? shocked. he formed a group for that purpose. it was rude. sol

thought, why do a group if you're not going to be nice to people? i think it's important people with learning disabilities find a group not to be insulted, unless they are not to be insulted, unless they are not being nice themselves. many people would agree with that. do you think it should be specifically a criminal offence to be abusive to someone criminal offence to be abusive to someone because of their disability? yeah. it should be banned, as racism, sexism, that's not allowed. that's the law. so, i think people with disability should have the same law. rob holland, do you think people with disability should get the same protections under hate crime laws as those who experience abuse because of their race or religion? isn't that already legislation out there like harassment legislation to protect

people? we at mencap really welcome today's report which makes a recommendation to strengthen the law and bring it in line with the lawful race and religion. as amy says, people with learning disabilities and disabled people should enjoy the same protections under the law as anybody else. even though there is already legislation out there that could prosecute trolls? it seems to be the case that there are very few prosecutions when it comes to online abuse facing disabled people. strengthening the law and bringing it in line with the race and religion would send a really strong message that the law treats disabled people in the same way. head on, how do you respond that there is legislation out there and this would be sort of duplicating it? there is, but the legislation as it exists is very fragmented. if you commit a crime of abusing a disabled person, unlike attacking someone because of their race or religion, it isn't a separate crime in itself, you have

to prove hostility. and that comes in at to prove hostility. and that comes inata to prove hostility. and that comes in at a sentencing, when the sentence can be increased. we think it should be a specific crime and we think the government needs to review the law and to give parliament a timetable for when it's going to come through with proposals. we think the social media companies need to do more, too. they need to do more to track down abuse, close accou nts do more to track down abuse, close accounts and communicate to people what is acceptable and what isn't. it's acceptable to disagree over an issue. it isn't acceptable to abuse people personally. everybody knows that, don't they? sadly, they don't. well, they do but do it anyway. kim says well done to katie price and may you get the outcome harvey and thousands more people deserve. it is despicable. another person says some abuse disabled people like me get is disgusting. lee says whilst i agree disabled people need protecting, i don't agree it should be a criminal offence as they courts are blocked up offence as they courts are blocked up now. we already have legislation in place to protect people with disabilities. mps are only backing

this because katie price is involved, nothing else. is that true? that is not true. we took evidence from disabled people all about the country. it was very common to hear the same stories over and over again about the kind of abuse they received. lee says education is far better, the police already waste precious time dealing with trivial online stuff. this person says online abuse should be a crime, and whoever it is aimed at, not just disabled crime, and whoever it is aimed at, notjust disabled people. tracy says as katie said, there is freedom of speech but consequences. keep up the fight. tell us about this recommendation of a register of offenders as well. we are saying that there doesn't need to be a separate register. but if our recommendations are accepted and this becomes a crime, employers can check through a dbs check whether someone they are employing to work with disabled people has a conviction for a disability hate

crime. we think that is a better way to go then having a separate register. to stop them being employed? if you have committed a hate crime against disabled people, clearly, you a re hate crime against disabled people, clearly, you are not the right person to be employed working with disabled people. is there any evidence that is happening?m disabled people. is there any evidence that is happening? it can happen, simply because at the moment there are no real checks on people. because they wouldn't have a criminal record for that. we want to see that happen. we want to see government to consult with disabled people themselves about what should be done about internet safety. we we re be done about internet safety. we were quite shocked to see in their last green paper on internet safety, they hadn't consulted with disabled people at all. thank you all, thank you for coming on the programme, we appreciate it. still to come: could black panther be the first comic superhero movie to bag a best picture nomination? we'll be taking you through the runners and riders.

that will be at about 10:30am. campaigners met the health minister to push for a law to allow women to freeze their eggs longer than the current ten year limit. they say they left that meeting shocked and disappointed. we will find out why. there are 11,500 suicides each year in england — which means around 13 people end their life every day. men are three times more likely to die by suicide?than women and suicide is the leading cause of death in men under 50. suicide is a leading cause of death in young people. the government will today set out its latest suicide prevention strategy — the plan is to use artifical intelligence to try and identify the most vulnerable people online to try and get them the help they need. the ministerfor suicide prevention who was appointed by theresa may last year will also be looking at why self harm amongst young people is on the rise

and she will explain how she wants families who have been affected by suicide to get the support they need. labour mp for liverpool wavertree luciana berger is here — she sits on the health andsocial care select committee. that committee will this afternoon question the minister for suicide prevention on the government's plans. in bristol isjoy hibbins — she's the founder of the charity suicide crisis, and in devon is tom metcalf who has experienced depression and suicidal thoughts oveer several years. this employing the latest technology such as artificial intelligence or predictive analytics to help identify those who are at risk, what do you think of that idea? it is definitely one thing that can be deployed. i would say that in of itself it is a drop in the ocean in how we should contend with a very serious issue, as you have rightly

highlighted, the greatest killer of men under the age of 50 in our country and the greatest killer of young people across the whole of the united kingdom. 6000 people take their lives every year and we should do everything possible to minimise that. there are easy things that can be done very quickly, if you were to put into a search engine the term "suicide" it is great to see some help support available at the start of those search returns. but, equally, within that first page, you will see different pages that will actually describe the methods that people could use. we know that all the guidelines tell us that is one thing that can make a massive difference. we shouldn't promote those, make those readily available for people to learn about. one tiny aspect of things we should be looking at. we have seen strides and developments in recent years. we have seen online social media companies do more to ensure people search for terms and have things like the samaritans pop up and help

numbers. there is so much more we should be doing off—line as well to be contending with this issue. to make sure we have suicide prevention plans in place —— make proper suicide prevention. that we hold not health service but our local authorities and justice system in particular to account. those are the tangible things we need to see progress that we haven't thus five. joy, progress that we haven't thus five. joy, is there a crisis in this country when it comes to suicide? -- haven't, thus far. we tend not to talk in terms of there being a crisis. in terms of suicide prevention, we notice that there is a lot of influence on zero suicide within the nhs. it has important to recognise it is more than the nhs. we runa recognise it is more than the nhs. we run a suicide crisis centre in gloucester, independent from the nhs. we have been running services for five and a half years. we've never had a suicide of a client underourcare.

never had a suicide of a client under our care. whether they've been under our care. whether they've been underourcare fora under our care. whether they've been under our care for a period of days, weeks or months. we've been very pleased to share some of the things we've learned as to why clients survive under our care, with the health select committee, a couple of years ago. what would you say are the reasons why? the reasons why clients under our care survive our multitude. we provide a combination of suicide crisis centre, home visits, and emergency phone lines. because we recognised, very early on, that not everybody who is in crisis would get to our suicide crisis would get to our suicide crisis centre. i've got no doubt that our ability to go out to people's homes, at short notice, has saved lives. we also work very differently from mental health services. it was my only experience under mental health crisis services in 2012 that showed me that there was a different approach needed. in many ways, i set up the opposite of what i experienced under mental

health crisis services. so, for example, a big team was involved, a different person from the crisis team, coming out every day. so only two members of our team are involved. we openly care for our clients. and that is not incompatible with a professional relationship. i found the clinical distance under mental health services sometimes created a barrier. because when a person is approaching the point of suicide, they may well have detached and disconnected from everyone around them. it's like you have a kind of tunnel vision. ijust them. it's like you have a kind of tunnel vision. i just want to ask, what do you think of those points thatjoy has made? what do you think of those points that joy has made? she makes important points about how we focus on prevention and how we have a system at the moment, not through any clinical professional‘s fault, but at the moment it is so much geared to what we do when someone is ina geared to what we do when someone is in a crisis. at that very end point. we hear about crisis teams. but the

previous support that has been available in our communities to keep people well beyond the nhs, out of the nhs. things like our community centres and youth services and children's centres, helping young families, for example. when those services are pared back or don't exist at all, it is not surprising to see more people in crisis. that doesn't help the person affected. particularly if they are at the point where they are at the point where they think about taking their own life. they are very expensive. we should do everything possible to ta ke we should do everything possible to take it out of the nhs, think about our communities, workplaces and places of education to keep people well and contend with what is a crisis in our country of mental health. thank you very much. thank you for coming on the programme. cardiff city football club is seriously concerned that one of its new players might have been on a light aircraft which disappeared on a flight from france last night.

emiliano sala just signed from cardiff —— back cardiff city from nantes. he disappeared over the channel islands this morning. what can you tell our audience, paul? we know that a small aircraft took off from nantes heading to cardiff and went missing off the coast of alderney near guernsey in the channel islands around 8:30pm. yesterday evening. the concern at cardiff city football club is that their club record signing, emiliano sala, who they just their club record signing, emiliano sala, who theyjust signed on saturday was one of two people on board that aircraft. it has gone missing. weather forecasters tell us that weather conditions when that plane took off were not unusual, not out of the ordinary. but after the plane went missing at 8:30pm, the weather seems to have taken a turn

for the worse, which hampered somewhat of the search and rescue effort. we understand the search is on going again this morning. while there isn't yet confirmation that emiliano sala was one of two people on board the aircraft, there is a genuine sense of concern here this morning at the football club and outside it, too, in cardiff, that he may have been one of two people on board. cardiff city saying this morning they are seeking clarification on what may have happened here. thank you. more from paul to come through the morning. still to come: we'll be bringing together a sheep farmer and a vegan to debate whether claims about the benefits of a meat free diet are misleading people later today, we'll find out which films have been nominated for this year's academy awards. of course, predicting the result of the oscars can be a tricky business — especially as the academy's membership, which votes for the awards, is changing year by year — but our entertainment

correspondent lizo mzimba is here with some predictions of what we might look out for in the nominations. what british films or actors have a shot at earning a nomination? the big one is the favourite, this marvellous comedy drama about queen anne and the court, people competing for favouritism within that environment. starring the great 0livia colman as queen anne, who is almost certain to get a best actress nomination. alongside rachel weiss, probably going to get a best supporting actress nomination. let's not forget the male side, you also have christian bale, an extraordinary transformation into former vice president dick cheney in the film vice. while people have

robins with the style of the film, people are unanimously saying his performance is extorted —— but while people have problems with. you could head for another academy award. somebody who has never been nominated for an academy award in the past, the wonderful richard e grant. withnail and i for goodness' sake. he is expected to get his first ever award nomination to the academy awards for a film called can you ever forgive academy awards for a film called can you everforgive me. he plays a disgraced writer with melissa mccarthy who turns to forgery to make ends meet. good brits in front of the camera trying to get a nomination. highly expected to. which films could win big this year? i think it's a very close race between quite a few films. green book is probably the favourite, a

story about a white chauffeur and black musician driving through the deep south in america but a lot of strong competition from a star is born, a remake of a remake of a remake starring bradley cooper and lady gaga. that will almost certainly lead the nominations across the board. people have been wowed by what bradley cooper has done as an actor, writer and director and producer on there. and lady gaga has not fallen into the category of musician... well, they can kind kind of act a bit. she is extraordinarily good. that stands a good chance of being in there but on the other hand a film like roma, a gorgeous sumptuous black and white, spanish language two and a quarter hour epic set in the 19705. it is a wonderful, wonderful piece of cinema. not the kind of thing people might say is going to get them packing into cinema5 and theatres acro55 packing into cinema5 and theatres across the country. it is also a

netflix release but had a cinema release as well. the sheer artistry of it alfonso cuaron, he of it directed by alfonso cuaron, he directed gravity. what will win? pick them until the night itself. you had talked about 0livia colman and you mentioned lady gaga, that is very competitive but two of the names you would expect to be non—native? thi5 this is one of the most competitive be5t this is one of the most competitive best actress time5 this is one of the most competitive best actress times we've ever seen. another one in their expected to be nominated i5 glenn close, for a film the wife, 5he nominated i5 glenn close, for a film the wife, she plays opposite jonathan pryce. in my mind she is ju5t jonathan pryce. in my mind she is just about possibly the front runner and even though 0livia colman i5 extraordinary and america's discovering her, we've known she's fantastic four years, obviously, and

they love lady gaga, people switching chandra and saying look what i can do. glenn close has been nominated for an oscar six times, hollywood and the oscars like awarding somebody they feel has been overlooked in the past. you look at the greats like paul newman, opportunity, they won probably for their worst ever nominated performances but it's like we haven't recognised in the past, we need to do so in cheek past, we need to do so and she could fall into that category. you look at the performances she is up against, lady gaga, 0livia colman, they have plenty of time in the future, this might be our last time to recognise an extraordinary actress, extraordinary career, extraordinaire performance. she is probably the front runner. the national television awards, and and deck nominated for best elevation presenters, one half of the deal hasn't been around for the last two months, could they make it a team in

a row? i think they could, i think lots of people are not expecting them to. i think they are not expecting to because obviously and has had his issues, drink—driving conviction in the last 12 months but i think what they will be more concerned about is what will happen next year and hopefully theoretically and mcpartlin has had a trouble—free 12 months, they are back recording britain's got talent and and celebrity. if they don't then deny people will say i think that's understandable but next year they hope the public will have forgiven and will look forward, not backwards. i will be the real issue in twelvemonth. ask me that then. i will, thanks, cheers. fertility experts who've been lobbying ministers to try to extend the ten year time limit on egg freezing have told this programme they are deeply disappointed by the government's response. unless they have a medical condition, women who freeze their eggs have a decade to use them or they're destroyed.

but campaigners say the 10—year limit is causing a growing number of women are to be faced with losing their chance to have a baby or rushing to find a sperm donor, so they can re—freeze an embryo. this programme has learned that there is a legal challenge to this ruling being brought in the coming weeks — by a woman whose eggs were destroyed. yesterday fertility experts and campaigners went to the department of health to try and get that time limit changed. in a moment we'll speak to baroness deech who was at that meeting. but first let's hear from claire fenelon, who has frozen eggs which will reach their limit in the coming months, fertility specialist professor geeta nargund, and sabrina maydew, who froze her eggs after a cancer scare. she reached the ten year time limit last month, and when she realised the deadline was approaching, she faced a dilemma. i think i was trying to avoid it, to a certain extent, because i didn't realise that you... there were other options, in the sense that you could now move your eggs across borders.

when i had them frozen, you couldn't. and what i didn't want to do was fertilise the eggs, without a partner. so, just to let our audience know, if you fertilise the eggs, then you have further time to store them. that's right, you get an extra ten years, again. so, i wasn't quite sure what my options were, so i delayed a bit. and it was just a very difficult time. and, to explain again, in order to fertilise them, you have to find a sperm donor. correct. 0k, right, do carry on. i didn't have a partner and i didn't specifically want to use a donor. yeah. you looked abroad? well, i went and had a meeting with the clinic, where the eggs had been frozen and they presented me with a couple of options. one was getting a donor and refreezing them. the other was possibly moving it abroad, moving them abroad, rather. you're faced with a stark choice of letting them destroy the eggs... theyjust take them out of the freezer and let them destroy...

be destroyed. or to have them fertilised by, in my case, by an unknown donor. but, actually, something else happened, which has given you a stay of execution? correct. i'm probably the only woman who jumped forjoy, by being told she is prematurely infertile because that allows you to keep the eggs for 55 additional years. in the hope that some treatment will be developed that would help your infertility? i suppose so. it is a bit absurd, really. but, yes. so, i was able to keep them here without fertilising them. but the chances of you having a child one day have receded? probably, yes. let me bring in claire. claire, hello to you. hi. sorry. that's all right, don't worry. claire and frankie. claire, i understand you have at the most about six months to use the eggs you froze ten years ago or they

will be destroyed. what do you think of this ten year time limit? well, there doesn't seem to be a reason for the time limit. it was, from what i understand, theyjust picked a number out of the air. so, it seems ridiculous that people are trying to be sensible in preserving their fertility while they deal with issues that they're going through in their life or waiting to meet the right partner. yeah. if the eggs, you know, have then to be destroyed after ten years for no reason, then it seems... it doesn't seem like a sensible law, really. one potential concern is that changing the time limit, extending it, might encourage women to have babies when they're a lot older. with all the complications and costs that that might bring. what do you say about that? well... the complications...

it depends what you mean by old. i mean, if you're talking women having babies in their 60s from eggs that they've frozen in their 205, i think there's other issues around that, which is not... not to do with the quality of the eggs but, you know, it's to do with having children at that age and bringing up a family at that age. but i'm 49, i've got an 18—month—old and i don't feel any different to the 25—year—olds that i meet that have got kids. but that's... you know, everybody's situation is different. i doubt that there would be an influx of women wanting to have children in their 50s and 60s. frankie, your 18—month—old, was conceived using one of the eggs that you had stored. yes. how would you have felt, then, had that time limit come earlier and you didn't have the opportunity to use one of those eggs

to conceive a child? i would have felt... i would have felt quite cheated because, you know, i had made provision. and it's not provisions to actually have a child, because there is no guarantee that it will work. it'sjust, you know, extending your fertility life, which could go either way. but i would have... i would have been devastated if i wasn't able to have him just because a law, which has no reason, no reason to say why it should be ten years, and there's no reason to say why it shouldn't be ten years. let me bring in professor geeta nargund, who is a fertility specialist. do you know why it's ten years? well, it was just an arbitrary ten year storage limit. so, no particular reason. no. should it be changed? absolutely. it's essential that it needs to be changed because at that time

when it was made, the long—term risks of frozen eggs and embryos were not known. and also, the modern technology called vitrification, or fast freezing, did not exist. we now have modern technology with high success rates. we have established safety and efficacy and the law must change in line with the technological advances and also societal changes. 0k. what should it be changed to, then? well, to me, i don't think we should have a blanket change of extension of storage. i believe that a rolling time limit of extension of five years or ten years at a time is most sensible. because, if we extend it for a very long time, then, yes, there is a risk that, potentially, women who are a lot older, in their 60s or so, could use them, which is not something we would want. also, i fear... it's only a fear, whether there would be intergenerational donation. so, it would be sensible

just to extend by five to ten years at a time, taking a woman's age, her fertility and also a clinician's report. and that is something that needs to be done now. we have sabrina here, we have claire. they are both saying. and we don't want women who freeze their eggs to find out that, oh, they've got to rush and use them now. the whole idea is to take the pressure off. and then trying to put pressure on them to use the eggs doesn't make sense. we can speak now to baroness deech who met with health minister yesterday to discuss possible changes to the rules about egg freezing. she is a cross—bench peer in the house of lords, as well as a former chair of the human fertilisation and embryology authority. good morning. how did you find a meeting that the health minister?|j

was meeting that the health minister?” was absurd and dismay, there was a lack of understanding of the law, lack of understanding of the law, lack of understanding of the law, lack of sympathy for the plight of women caught in this situation. a lack of understanding how the house of lords works. and indeed a disregard for the very clear breaches of human rights law which are involved in maintaining the current law. that's quite a lot of criticism directed towards the health minister. you shop? i was rather shocked, professorjackson who is the foremost expert on this, and i, presented her with a way to d raft and i, presented her with a way to draft regulations, nothing in primary legislation, a small change in the regulations would achieve what'sjust been mentioned, one could have a rolling cycle of extensions, the minister it seemed to think that any touching of the law would be opposed by the house of lords which is extraordinary because the house of lords is full of medical experts and scientific experts and has taken a lead in

every progressive expansion of the law in this field. i think she was frightened that the anti—abortionists would pile on but i don't think that would happen because this is circumscribed and she didn't seem to be concerned about the very obvious breaches of human rights law. why would she feel, and it's jackie d'0r prize, the health minister, why would she feel the anti—abortionists would pile in? the government has a fear every time you start discussing fertility reproductive health that the people who are very much opposed to abortion use that as an excuse to try and tighten the law. but all we are talking about is a change to secondary legislation and regulations, so tightly circumscribed this could not happen. it would be very easy to do, would not cost anything, would give hope to women, it would end the discrimination between men and women, there is nothing medically wrong with that. i simply cannot see

why the government won't allow this, i really don't understand their lack of attention to the women. don't they, potentially, field that it's a matter of conscience for individual politicians, the government should not necessarily take a view on this. we all ready have a law that allows a freezing, the conscience that has been settled, it's a question of extending it by fibre ten years, given that men can freeze their sperm readily are to 55 years, it's clearly discriminatory so i can see what the problem is and of course at the moment, women are wasting their money on this heartbreak. you pay thousands to have the procedure, once your eggs are in storage the clinic has got you over a barrel. because every year they can charge you would ever they want for storage and use and lee have to pay because if you don't, they will destroy your eggs. what about concerns of older mothers, if you allow a woman to continually freeze eggs in potentially you have a lot of comic

you have more older mothers with the releva nt you have more older mothers with the relevant cost to the nhs?” you have more older mothers with the relevant cost to the nhs? i don't think that's the case, in fact the law at the moment anchorages that. if you allow longer extensions when it would strike a freezing much younger and at the law stands there isn't a limit on the age of a woman who can use eggs are some other means of in vitro fertilisation. and at the moment if the eggs were allowed to perish after ten years able men of say 45 might well want to find a surrogate or donor egg. by no means are you starting the situation, it would get better if you change the law. we've learned is going to be a legal challenge from a woman whose eggs have been destroyed over the coming weeks. what do you think of a case like that?” over the coming weeks. what do you think of a case like that? i don't know the specifics. but i have no doubt and professor jackson know the specifics. but i have no doubt and professorjackson has no doubt, the current law offence against article eight of the european convention on human rights which is about interference in

private and family life and death ends against article or team which prohibits discrimination on the grounds of marital status and gender. so i think it's an open and shut case. 0k, thank you for talking to us, thank you for coming on the programme. the ministry ofjustice has apologised after major computer failures across england have left judges and the cps struggling to access vital case information. the system is quite new — it's known as the common platform programme. it's shared between police, courts and the cps and is supposed to make information sharing easier. last week, another system, the criminaljustice secure email, also went down. jonathan black is a solicitor specialising in criminal defence. hello, good morning. thank you for coming on the programme. is this a big deal? it's a massive deal. at a time when there has been much in the media and news about the crumbling court estate, the closure of court

will brings, police stations, we are in hearing from the ministry of justice that start response is efficiency through the triple transformation and through online courts and online efficiency. if we can't get this right, then this system itself is falling apart or has fallen apart and collapse, it's essential people have access to the papers, it's essential for the efficiency of the justice system that the papers are served, not only within the common platform which you mentioned but also within the secure e—mail service which we receive collectively, 75 doesn't embers of the legal profession received e—mails on friday apologising, thursday, apologising for the outage and on friday explaining they are slowly getting the system back up and running but the inbox containing all the e—mails which we may have received on cases we are working on for the past 3—4 months, the inbox

will be empty and will be repopulated over a period of two weeks. what impact could that have a impact —— on ongoing cases? weeks. what impact could that have a impact -- on ongoing cases? delays. a big theme from the ministry of justice the past 5—10 years is stop delaying justice. we seen in the courts for the last two working days and for the perceivable future problems were laptops have had to be passed around the court using mobile data, not using the wi—fi which is also down. we've had people in custody who is not being able to access the papers other than through the police liaison officer who is allocated to each court and prince of several copies for each person which flies in the face of the digital revolution which the government and ministry ofjustice has been trying to implement and engaging champion. what do you think of what happened ? engaging champion. what do you think of what happened? next week the

government is putting on a series of events promoting digital services. it is for members of the public to attend and to engage with and to discuss how they feel digital services are working and how it can make them better. if they can get the basics right they cannot even start putting resources into such events. what has gone wrong, could just not be teething problems? they don't have back up, they have spent over £1 billion on the it infrastructure, they have required all legal professionals to invest heavily in information technology hardware and software but they haven't invested in any sufficient back—up. haven't invested in any sufficient back-up. and that's the problem. 0k. if this were any other government department it would be headline news. echoes of the criminaljustice system and not always, unless there isa system and not always, unless there is a big story about someone under serving seeding legal aid it's not

necessarily in the headlines. 0k. thank you, thank you very much, jonathan black. i want to show you this video which is one of the most watched on our website this morning. it's about kaiden williams, who has a skin condition called vitiligo. but that hasn't stopped him landing a modelling contract with primark. sheep farmers are hitting back at vegans. "veganuary", the campaign to get people to go vegan for one month, reckon that by the end of this month half a million people around the world will have tried moving to a plant—based diet. sheep farmers say the veganuary campaign is "misleading and misguided". let's bring together dave egan and a sheep farmer. —— aid of egan. let's talk now to phil stocker, who's a sheep farmer and chief executive of the national sheep association, which represents the industry. he says veganuary is full of misleading and inaccurate claims. and ed winters, an animal rights activist, also known as earthling ed, who wants to see a vegan world.

phil, what is misleading about veganuary? i think it's the narrator very one to choose the diet they should eat, the statistics spread around are misleading and don't take into account the fact sheep are being produced in a very natural way, they are produced in a very dishes product and i argue they are contributing to a positive environment rather than damaging the planet, a lot of the statistics and m essa g es planet, a lot of the statistics and messages going out are misleading and don't reflect the way sheep farming is taking place in the uk. before you respond, what's the thing that most misleading in your view.” think it's that eating meat is damaging to people's health and we know that as part of a balanced diet it's a very healthy way to keep yourself in good order.” it's a very healthy way to keep yourself in good order. i think there's two things to consider. first the environmental point to put forward , first the environmental point to put forward, the wrist studies released la st forward, the wrist studies released last year, the first was the most comprehensive that looked between arming and the environment, looked

at 190 countries, 40,000 farms, revealed that a vegan diet or life style revealed that a vegan diet or lifestyle is this in the biggest way we can reduce our impact. the second was the most comprehensive study conducted between food and the environment, in this country, the uk we have to reduce pork, beef and bmb we have to reduce pork, beef and lamb consumption by 90% to avoid meeting a two celsius threshold rise that would be catastrophic. when we look at the science behind these issues we are talking about it is very much stacked in favour of the egan lifestyle. can i come back and the environmental diet. for a long time cattle and sheep had been criticised for putting methane out which is a greenhouse gas. recently there's been studies that have been done that showed me think reacts in a very different way to carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide that comes from fossil fuels and if you think methane coming from ruminants from animals it's part of a natural

gaseous cycle that this planet has adapted to cope with over thousands of years. are we couple with that? absolutely not, look at what the un is telling us, some of the most prestigious and respected bodies tell us, the lancet, the university of oxford, the nature journal, all of oxford, the nature journal, all of these studies and institutions say clearly animal agriculture is the leading driver of so many environmental problems we face, it's bigger thanjust environmental problems we face, it's bigger than just methane admissions. we're looking at water pollution, habitat destruction, species extinction. a lot of the science is flawed and it's fairly new. were talking about are subject not terribly well understood. what scientific bodies are you referencing? this information coming from oxford university going into the international panel on climate change report, saying methane has a short—term life cycle of between 4-10 short—term life cycle of between 4—10 years, whereas the greenhouse

gases, carbon dioxide and much longer. methane has a cycling thing, the gas is released, the planet adapt to cope, they disburse and dissolve, more methane is being produced. we would argue the numbers of sheep kept in the uk over the last 40—50 years have not contributed adult to greenhouse gas or global warming —— global warming. i will read some e—mails. debra says sheep farmers have a vested interest in flogging the nation decaying flesh of the species of goss. it's a scientific fact a well—balanced tobacco and bad world link in your life expectancy. we are not in the stone age. mark says the health benefits are no interest, i don't wa nt to benefits are no interest, i don't want to be part of cruel and violent animal exportation. considering the impact on ourselves isn't a matter of the real issue which is speciesism. johnny says before we see your item is for it says he loves his sheep, i will groan. do

you? i do. you can deliberately breed baby animals to die in the state of terror and say you love them, people naturally eat meat but just be honest about where it comes from. pain and terror. absolutely not. i would argue, when we are trying to find sustainability, sheep or almost the ultimate in renewable technology, most of the grass is growing with no more than sunlight and rain and solid, most of the grass is not treated with any great chemical fertilisers, grass is not treated with any great chemicalfertilisers, it reduces grass, ruminants and she'd come be bad, converted into high—quality protein, that evans, minerals. cholesterol, saturated fat. eaten as pa rt cholesterol, saturated fat. eaten as part of a healthy diet along with vegetables, there was a health practitioner's conference in cardiff backin practitioner's conference in cardiff back in the new year at 96% of the health professionals are great red

meat as part of a diet was a healthy way to sustain ourselves. studies from harbord and cornell and other prestigious institutions clearly show there's a direct relation between consuming products and leading diseases and i want to get back to that point about looking after animals. in the lamb industry to6 after animals. in the lamb industry to 6 million baby lambs style with the first two days of being born because farmers breed them to give birth in winterso because farmers breed them to give birth in winter so they capitalise on the spring lamb tradition. that's absolutely not. let him respond, he isa absolutely not. let him respond, he is a sheep farmer. absolutely not correct. the majority of the sheep bmb correct. the majority of the sheep lamb in late february, march and into april and if anything over the last five years, lambing is shifting later so can become less reliant on input and work alongside the natural growth pattern and seasons. it's not right they are pushed to lamb earlierfor right they are pushed to lamb earlier for the right they are pushed to lamb earlierfor the spring right they are pushed to lamb earlier for the spring trade. that statistic comes from the national disease for animal service, it's an

organisation that works in the industry and they say between 10—25% newborn lambs die within the first three days of birth because she capitalise and take money at the berry profitable time of year. it's a different issue. a semi natural farming system, lots remain in semi—wild conditions on the hills, you're bound to get losses and we do get losses but that's a trade—off from living in a natural situation. reduce losses by bringing them in does, housing, go into a more intensive direction but we don't wa nt to intensive direction but we don't want to do that. we are going to's is here at the end the programme but thank you both. paul says meat is a need for humans as respectable and natural protein, what is damaging farming is the chemicals they put on the land. thank you for all of your comments. lots of you have been in touch about online abuse and the suicide prevention plan, contact the bbc action like help at any time.

back tomorrow at 10am. have a good day. hello there. a real wintry mix of weather outside at the moment. for many it dry and bright, some sunshine, some showers moving in across northern and western areas. those falling as snow. mainly over the high ground. but still at low levels. showers moving further east. moving through the higher ground, the pennines, wales, some accumulations gathering. some snow at lower levels, heavier showers, maximum temperatures for — 6 degrees. sunshine in between. through tonight, temperatures falling quite quickly, a risk of is, quite widespread across the uk,

further wintry showers in northern ireland, twisting them, north wales. these are the overnight temperatures, widely below freezing. —2 and bonus for degrees. a cold, frosty and icy start to the day. during wednesday fewer showers around, one or two wintry showers to be found, quite cold. goodbye. v - . . . it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: which disappeared last'nig h‘fiwefi the english channel. it that the aircraft

but we are a search if a searc itf ., ”if" ' ' ' a see sea. arm?" ”if" , , , mp5 put forward proposals to change theresa may's brexit deal, whether to hold another referendum on its final plan. the number of people in work in the uk has reached a record high.