our top story. venezuela has broken diplomatic relations with the the united states after washington recognised the country's opposition leader as the legitimate president. earlierjuan guaido unilaterally declared himself venezuela's acting leader, in front of a crowd of tens of thousands of anti—government protestors. however nicolas maduro insists that he remains in control. president trump has said he might deliver an alternative to the traditional state of the union address, after he was blocked from appearing in the chamber by the speaker of the house nancy pelosi. the democrats say the event cannot go ahead because of the government shutdown. sub—zero conditision have frozen parts of the stunning waterfalls. the waters are still flowing — but the spray is covering nearby trees and buildings with a glistening coat of ice. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, it's hardtalk.

hello, and welcome to hardtalk. i'm shaun ley. malaysia has had its first change of government in 60 years. it took a huge corruption scandal to topple the previous one, yet the same two names dominate the country's political debate, which have done for the last 20 years. mahathir, a retired prime minister who returned to power at the age of 92, and anwar, the man who was jailed, then pardoned, and now is mahathir‘s chosen successoi’. syed saddiq is the youngest cabinet minister in asia, in a country where the average age is the mid—20s. he says malaysia is a country of reform and modernisation. no country for old men, or is malaysia still trapped in an attitudes shaped in its colonial past? syed saddiq, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. last year's general election resulted in the first change in government since independence in the mid—1950s. i mean, it's a hugely significant moment in malaysia's history. how important do you think that election will be for the country's future? to me, the fact that this is the first change in government for malaysia will allow for the youth to shape the future of malaysia for the next 20 to 30 years. we have never had a change in government, and now we do. i believe what we do in the next term will determine what is to come for the next 20 years. i am very hopeful and optimistic, especially when we have more and more young people shaping the future of our beloved of malaysia.

you have given them an opportunity to do that by lowering the voting age from 21 to 18, why? yes, it will be tabled in parliament most likely in march. and this is something that all the parties of the governing coalition support, so it should become law? we need a two third majority and a constitutional amendment, but as soon as we discussed this in cabinet, i brought this up, and there is consensus on that, i have been engaging with all opposition parties, amanah, pbb and all the opposition parties, and there seems to be a consensus on this issue. so, hopefully, we will get a unanimous decision through parliament to reduce voting age to 18 years old. so, from 21 to 18, what will that mean in terms of the numbers it for the next few decades.

now they're about 2.6, let's not forget, election will come in about 2022, that means those who are 15 today will be allowed to vote, which means that about 50% of those on the electoral roll will come from young people of malaysia. that means any party, whether it's my party or the opposition, cannot mess with the youth of malaysia. so they can vote, but many of them at the moment can't find a job. that is an issue. that is why the first thing which i want to do... it is a big issue, what is it, about 10.8%? i think it's about 10.7%. the plan of the government is to reduce youth unemployment into the single digit. it is still significantly lower than the global average of 18% but we can't fall behind

thailand, singapore... i was going to say, in the region it is higher, singapore is 4.5%, thailand, 6%, vietnam, 7%, i mean, you know the statistics better than i do. china is the country that has the same level of youth unemployment. but it is not so much the numbers which is a story for every single one of those young people who wants a job and can't find one, it is about how that matches the economy and the ambitions you have. exactly. 204,000 graduates without a job at the last statistics your government released, 40.5% of malaysia's unemployed, and yet only 4% of their vacancies are for graduates or professionals, that's quite a mismatch. but i believe in the next few years we will resolve the structural issues. one is, we need to start looking into the gig economy, we need to start looking into the fourth industrial revolution, where jobs will slowly be replaced with automation, but i believe the future lies in vocational education. and under my ministry there are 22 vocational institutions, and the rate of employment for the graduates is at 94%, much higher than graduates of universities. so, malaysia's universities, what, are they quality, or are theyjust teaching the wrong subjects? i believe as long as we update the subjects, try to shorten the time to ensure that the subjects which we teach continuously get updated...

so, some of them are out of date? yes, so, the good thing is the ministry of education is looking to phase out unnecessary subjects and to always update the curriculum. can you give me some examples of what you mean by unnecessary subjects, or things that no longer serve the purpose of the economy? exactly. so, each university will have their compulsory subjects, so different universities have different subjects, whether it's history or religious education. the point is to ensure that we are industry driven an industry led. while we should not forget the humanities, there must be a balance. the midf research, which analyses the economy for manufacturers, wrote at the time, the last time employment figures came out, "we view the rising youth unemployment rate is possibly due to skills mismatch. fer “emele eat sf all veeanflfi‘b operators and assemblers, which are semiskilled." so, i mean, there is a huge problem here. i accept what you're saying about change and evolution and all the rest of it, but it doesn't help someone in their early—to—mid—20s who has trained and tried to become qualified and then is told

by their country, sorry, we don't yet have work for you. they will go abroad, won't they? this is why it is critical to update the curriculum and... it doesn't help those people who have already graduated. we needfta lfiqk’ifltq'vfifiafieflfll’ in the end they can be re—skilled further, government invest in them, end up in the industry place, and in the end they get betterjobs for the future. are they going to hang around for that, or are theyjust going to go abroad? i have a strong feeling that if you are able to invest enough, they will stay in malaysia. there is new hope and great optimism. we do plan to bring those who are abroad back and keep those who are in the country in the country. no more brain drain. malaysia is a young country.

the average age is about 28. you are just slightly younger at 26. yet you're a minister in a cabinet which is led by the oldest head of government in the world. yes, i always joke around that one of the reasons i was brought in is to average the age of the cabinet, 93—year—old and a 25—year—old. but i think this shows a new future for malaysia. it is notjust about me. iam young. there is mr yeo bee, ministerfor the environment, 35 years old. there are two or three deputy ministers below a0 years old. the point is, youth represention in cabinet has increased, and not about youth representation alone. but you're still a minority. but you're a long way behind. sure, they should listen to you, and they should listen to you with respect, but in the end your views are going to count far less than all those men and women in their 50s and 60s and 70s and 90s. i disagree. the unique part is, when 25, there is a form of idealism. i speak my mind.

lmihatermohamad,ismeticulng i was tired following him in the campaign. he was receptive to using new ideas like using social media or live streaming speeches." people watching and listening might think it is hard to imagine that he knows much about instagram and facebook when he grew up in the generation that had to rely on shortwave the and the telegraph. yes, but he is always adaptive to changes. i remember during the times of the election when we didn't have control of the media, it was monopolised by the government, we didn't have a lot of resources like the ruling government then, we had to think of unconventional methods to reach out to the community. that is where he really used facebook live. every week we had policy talks which reaches out to hundreds of thousands people. and during the final day of election his facebook live had more than 270,000 live views, a record high in asean. we do find unique ways to reach out and send a message to the malaysian populace. a man who is still in touch

in the way you describe and is still engaged and, as you say, is willing to listen to young people and take on board your concerns and adapt policy accordingly, i mean, it doesn't sound like a man who is ready for retirement. i mean, he has mentioned and signalled many, many times, even though there were some portions of the community who said, "please stay on, please stay on," he has said time after time, the most recent one in our party general assembly, you would expect that a time when he says, "i will stay on as long as possible", he said that he will step down before the next election. in 2022? yes. so the suggestion he will go next year, there is no guarantee of that? no. i was one of the persons who signed the agreement between all coalition partners. i am a member of the presidential pakatan harapan. there is no agreement it should be two years. right. that's very interesting,

because it has been said quite a lot by people in public. yes, becauase the one who said it, doctor mahatir, if you look at the other people who are part of the presidential council, none say that it is two years. so doctor mahatir has said two years, but no—one will hold him to it if he says, "i am enjoying this, it is refreshing. i was prime minister 20 years ago, now i am back i don't feel like retiring." it could go on and on and on. yes, but knowing him he is very focused on reforming the country. yes, nothing else to lose. he already has a legacy. he brought dysfunctional opposition to win a landmark election. he has nothing else to lose. he just wants to ensure that malaysia's name will be in the eyes of the world. well it is certainly that. you understand people will say that's a test of, to use the expression, "old wine in a new bottle." he reinvented himself. but he is the same old politician from 20 or 30 years ago, some of whose methods were very heavily internationally criticised, not least what he did to the man who he now says will be a successor, anwar, who 20 years ago was dismissed from the cabinet over allegations of homosexuality.

judge him on his policies today. he has freed up the media. during the 8:30 prime news back then they would never criticise the government, and now almost every day... he was the government. it doesn't matter whether the media criticises him. it is about how he behaves. it has changed significantly. the media is free to report. the malaysian anticorru ption commission reports to the parliament, no longer under his purview. we have decentralised power, put a two term limit on the prime minister. many institutional reforms which goes beyond the personality of the leader, that is the future of malaysia. i take your point, that is thepoint ,, ,. , you've got to get to. right now he is in charge... he has led those reforms. let's leave aside what he said when he dismissed them when he said, he was quoted as saying, "i can't have a sodomiser no—one would be safe." and you can understand, can't you, anwar might be a little bit cautious

about believing that he will really get power from a man who not only did that to him, whose regime played such a part in his imprisonment and all of the rest of it that happened to him, even though he was eventually pardoned by the king, was described by amnesty international during his time in prison as a prisoner -§ --—--;—-; —-+ “"l;*a; , —— fl isn't it hard to imagine mahathir handing over power to a man who just five years ago said he wasn't even qualified to be a chief minister of one of the malay states, never mind the prime minister? if this coalition is governed based on caution, we would never be able to win the election. the reason we were able to do so is because these leaders were able to put their differences aside and unite for a common

cause and purpose. power. no, not for power, to bring down the biggest global kleptocracy. currently... that's the most important. let me interrupt you. you say is not about power. listen to what mahathir said about anwar in february 2014, just under five years ago. "he formed a party purely to ensure he becomes a prime minister, not to fight for race, religion and nation. everywhere he struggled it is only to become prime minister." and are we to believe that mahathir has now completely changed his view of anwar, now saying, "i was wrong about anwar, he's a really good guy not for political convenience, because i can trust him to take the reins of power?" in 2018, we signed an agreement, the members of the presidential pakatan harapan signed an agreement... this is the governing coalition. exactly, not in 2014, but in 2018 that he would be the prime minister and then will become anwar and they have been meeting closely, almost weekly, so i believe... almost weekly.

very impressive. some people might meet every couple of days at that level of government. i will leave that. perhaps i am being mischievous. more serious is this, mahathir is 94 next year and you say he might go on until 95, you have given him that flexibility, it's not me. anwar will be 72, 70 three. you and your colleagues have given him that flexibility. in a country with a median age half a century lower than anwar‘s age, why not skip a generation, let the young people, not necessarily you, i won't embarrass you, someone who is nearly 40 take charge? it is: a". ec'eemeflhulufki , — ,, , w ,,, ,, was made by all of us. ,,... . .. ,, 3127 esiq’vixifiifififi-ur . i 77 f for the next 50 or 100 years‘s time, we will be voted out

at one point in time, but what matters is institutional reforms, empowering the youth today. even when there is a change in government, the voices of young people... and communities, communities need to have an equal voice. in the end... so why have you joined a party which only permits people from indigenous communities to stand for election? beceuse i believe whet'is most- for all malaysians is important. not all parties are. it introductd affirmative—action poliicies, if it still has political that is the kind of thing that would prove what you mean, notjust the warm words,

i am sure they are sincere, but they don't matter a jot unless you change 90% of the population, they came from the indigenous community. only 9% were held by the indigenous community. 5.5.4 552522525i5‘5‘1055' — — ., ~ ,, ,-., imprisoned by the past, why is your party still imprisoned by the past? while we expand malaysia's economic pie, we pursue a policy of equitable economic opportunity, to see that malaysia is a country which doesn't consider discrimination along race

and religious lines is wrong. social and economic equity is also reflected in racial and religious inequities. what about other minority communities? you took some affirmative action of your own, numan afifi, a prominent campaigner for gay rights. if you want to ask about numan, you can ask him yourself. he made the position to lead the team when the time came. he determined when the time came? he did. i gave him the option. you offered him a job? yes. even if somebody said, we don't like gay rights campaigners in our government? let's be fair, there are about 2,000 employees in my ministry. if i have a policy of assessing each and every one of their sexualities, it becomes almost impossible for me to do so. the work is based on the merit. that's what matters the most when we move forward. charles santiago, an mp,

who supports your coalition as it happend, in pakatan hara pan, the "alliance of hope" as it translates, he says numan afifi was the victim of regressive treatment. if you believe so, i have his phone number, you can call him now. you can call him after. maybe after the programme, we will lose time. what do you make of charles santiago‘s comments? the most important thing is to allow these individuals... was it regressive treatment? this part, i disagree. 0k. i think what matters to most is that everyone should have a voice in this new malaysia. talking about equality, we will leave aside the question of women in cabinet, meant to be 30%, only 18%. we hope it changes. women in parliament. women in cabinet. that was the pledge. we care about it a lot. malaysian history.

isa woman, so we've made progress, in our last few minutes, let's take another example. king mohammed, who will be succeeded shortly after we recorded this interview, he announced his resignation. threee people who criticised him were arrested for sedition. malaysia is a constitutional monarchy, a part of our identity