the latest headlines for you from bbc news: the venezuelan president, nicolas maduro, has responded with defiance to the us, the european union and several latin american countries who've recognised the opposition leader, juan guaido as interim president. he has declared himself acting leader. nicolas maduro has said he's breaking off relations with the us and giving american diplomats 72 hours to leave. president trump is looking into giving his annual state of the union address somewhere other than the house of representatives, where it's normally held. the house speaker, nancy pelosi, who's a democrat, has insisted he cannot speak there until the partial government shutdown ends. emergency teams in guernsey have suspended the search for a light aircraft missing over the english channel since monday evening. the plane was carrying footballer emiliano sala, newly signed to cardiff city, and pilot david ibbotson. no wreckage has been found. it's time now for hardtalk.

hello, and welcome to hardtalk. i'm shaun ley. malaysia has had its first change of government in 60 years. it took a huge corruption scandal to topple the previous one, yet the same two names dominate the country's political debate, which have done for the last 20 years. mahathir, a retired prime minister who returned to power at the age of 92, and anwar, the man who was jailed, then pardoned, and now is mahathir‘s chosen successoi’. syed saddiq is the youngest cabinet minister in asia, in a country where the average age is the mid—20s. he says malaysia is a country of reform and modernisation. no country for old men, or is malaysia still trapped in an attitudes shaped in its colonial past? syed saddiq, welcome to hardtalk.

thank you veryimuch. in government since independence back in the mid—1950s. i mean, it's a hugely significant moment in malaysia's history. how important do you think that election will be for the country's future? to me, the fact that this is the first change in government for malaysia will allow for the youth to shape the future of malaysia for the next 20 to 30 years. we have never had a change in government, and now we do. and i believe what we do in the next term will determine what is to come for the next 20 years. i am very hopeful and optimistic, especially when we have more and more young people shaping the future of our beloved of malaysia. you have given them an opportunity to do that by lowering the voting age from 21 to 18, why?

yes, it will be tabled in parliament most likely in march. and this is something that all the parties of the governing coalition support, so it should become law? we need a two—third majority and a constitutional amendment, but as soon as we discussed this in cabinet, i brought this up, with all opposition parties, amanah, pbb and all the opposition parties, so, hopefully, we will get a unanimous decision tdt tfie' hex? tew 5213135; the electignwillrsgme' of those on the electoral roll

williomeiromyoung people of malaysia. that means any party, whether it's my party or the opposition, cannot mess with the youth of malaysia. so they can vote, but many of them at the moment can't find a job. that is an issue. that is why the first thing which i want to do... it is a big issue, what is it, about 10.8%? i think it's about 10.7%. 0k. the plan of the government is to reduce youth unemployment into the single digit. it is still significantly lower than the global average of 18% but we can't fall behind thailand, singapore... i was going to say, in the region it is higher, isn't it, i mean, singapore is 4.5%, thailand, 6%, vietnam, 7%, i mean, you know the statistics better than i do. china is the country that has the same level of youth unemployment. but it is not so much the numbers which is a story for every single one of those young people who wants a job and can't find one, it is about how that matches the economy and the ambitions you have. exactly. 204,000 graduates without a job at the last statistics your government released, 40.5% of malaysia's unemployed,

and yet only 4% of their vacancies are for graduates or professionals, that's quite a mismatch. but i believe in the next few years we will resolve the structural issues. one is, we need to start looking into the gig economy, we need to start looking into the fourth industrial revolution, where jobs will slowly be replaced with automation, but i believe the future lies in vocational education. and under my ministry there are 22 vocational institutions, and the rate of employment for the graduates is at 94%, much higher than graduates of universities. so, malaysia's universities, what, are they quality, or are theyjust teaching the wrong subjects? i believe as long as we update the subjects, try to shorten the time to ensure that the subjects which we teach continuously get updated... so, some of them are out of date? yes, so, the good thing is the ministry of education and doctor mahatir is looking to phase out unnecessary subjects and to always update the curriculum. can you give me some examples of what you mean by unnecessary

subjects, or things that no longer serve the purpose of the economy? exactly. so, each university will have their compulsory subjects, so different universities have different subjects, whether it's history or religious education. the point is to ensure that we are industry driven an industry led. while we should not forget about humanities, there must be a balance. the midf research, which analyses the economy for manufacturers, wrote at the time, the last time employment figures came out, "we view the rising youth unemployment rate is possibly due to skills mismatch. for example, out of all vacancies, 76% were for elementary occupations. the next biggest category was 10%, and that's for plants and machinery operators and assemblers, which are semiskilled." so, i mean, there is a huge problem here. and i accept what you're saying about change and evolution and all the rest of it, but it doesn't help someone in their early—to—mid—20s who has trained and tried to become qualified and then is told "sorry, we don't yet have work for you." they will go abroad, won't they? this is why it is critical to update the curriculum and... it doesn't help those people

who have already graduated. but we need to look into vocational education, re—skilling and up—skilling, where the government subsidises a significant amount and puts through our young graduates through a skill—based internship process, so that even though they might start out with phased—out jobs, in the end they can be re—skilled further, government invest in them, end up in the industry place, and in the end they get betterjobs for the future. are they going to hang around for that, or are theyjust going to go abroad? i have a strong feeling that if you are able to invest enough, they will stay in malaysia. there is new hope and great optimism. we do plan to bring those who are abroad back and keep those who are in the country in the country. no more brain drain. malaysia is a young country. the average age is about 28. you are just slightly younger at 26. yet you're a minister in a cabinet which is led by the oldest head of government in the world. yes, i always joke around that one of the reasons i was brought in is to average the age of the cabinet, 93—year—old and a 25—year—old. but i think this shows a new future for malaysia. it is notjust about me. iam young.

the point is. youth represention and not about youth representation alone. but you're still a minority. but you're a long way behind. sure, they should listen to you, and they should listen to you with respect, but in the end your views are going to count far less than all those men and women in their 50s and 60s and 70s and 90s, aren't they? i disagree. the unique part is, when i am 25, there is a form of idealism. at the same time, i speak my mind. the cabinet allows me to speak my mind on these issue. and they listen. that is where we see, for an example, reducing the age of 21 to 18 years old, reducing the definition of youth, from 1a to 13, on education reform and many landmark changes which have taken place factored in the voices of the youth ministry. and in terms of what this will mean in the government you serve i suppose it is... i mean, you said, i think late last year you were quoted as saying, "mahathir mohamad is meticulous, he's hard—working and tireless. i got tired following him in the campaign.

he was receptive to using new ideas like using social media or live streaming speeches." i think some people watching and listening might think it is hard to imaginethat he knows much about instagram and facebook when he grew up in the generation that had to rely on shortwave the and the telegraph. yes, but, i mean, he is always adaptive to changes. i remember during the times of the election when we didn't have control of the media, it was monopolised by the government, we didn't have a lot of resources like the ruling government then, we had to think of unconventional methods to reach out to the community. that is where he really used facebook live. every week we had policy talks which reaches out to hundreds and thousands of people. and during the final day of election his facebook live, there was 270,000 live views, a record high in asean. we do find unique ways to reach out and send a message to the malaysian populace. for a man who is still in touch in the way you describe, and is still engaged and, as you say, is willing to listen to young people and take on board your concerns and adapt

the next election. 5 if you look at the other people who are part of the presidential council, none say that it is two years. so doctor mahatir has said two years, but no—one will hold him

to it if he says, "actually, i am enjoying this, it is quite refreshing. i was prime minister 20 years ago, i am back, now i am back i don't feel like retiring." it could go on and on and on. yes, but knowing him, he is very focused on reforming the country. yes, nothing else to lose. he already has a legacy. he brought dysfunctional opposition to win a landmark election. he has nothing else to lose. he just wants to ensure that malaysia's name will be in the eyes of the world. well, it is certainly that. you understand that some people will say that's a test of, to use the expression, "old wine in a new bottle." he reinvented himself. but he is the same old politician from 20—30 years ago, some of whose methods were very heavily internationally criticised, not least what he did to the man who he now says was dismissed from the cabinet over allegations of homosexuality. ..—a:5 9:3 $ he has freed up the media. i mean, during the 8:30 prime news back then they would never criticise the government, and now almost every day... no, but he was the government.

it doesn't matter whether the media criticises him. it is about how he behaves. today it has changed significantly. the media is free to report. at the same time, the malaysian anticorruption commission reports to the parliament, no longer under his purview. we have decentralised power, put a two—term limit on the prime minister. many institutional reforms which goes beyond the personality of the leader, that is the future of malaysia. i take your point, but that is future you've got to get to. right now he is in charge... he has led those reforms. 2l: .;;; as; lll l:;f lllwl” lllllll llll in my cabinet, imagine a gay prime minister. anwar sued him for defamation. this is a very good argument you're making and it is the question of whether somebody who has been so prominent, behaved in the past, can change and whether they can be a catalyst for change or not. and you can understand, can't you, anwar may be just a little bit

cautious about believing that he will really get power from a man who not only did that to him, whose regime played such a part in his imprisonment and all of the rest of it that happened to him, even though he was eventually pardoned by the king, was described by amnesty international during his time in prison as a prisoner of conscience, a man who was there not for the crime he committed but because of his politically inconvenience to the government led by mahathir. isn't it hard to imagine mahathir handing over power to a man who just five years ago said he wasn't even qualified to be a chief minister of one of the malay states, never mind the prime minister? if this coalition is governed based on caution, we would never be able to win the election. the reason we were able to do so is because these leaders were able to put their differences aside and unite for a common cause and purpose. power. no, it's not for power, to bring down the biggest global kleptocracy. currently... that's the most important. you say is not about power. listen. ts. what mahathir ted : ~

just under five years ago. not to fight for race, religion and nation. everywhere he struggled it is only to become prime minister." of anwar, is now saying, "i was wrong about anwar, he's a really good guy not for political convenience, because i can trust him to take the reins of power?" and in 2018, we signed an agreement, the members of the presidential pakatan harapan signed an agreement... this is the governing coalition. exactly, so, not in 2014, but in 2018 that he would be the prime minister and then will come anwar and they have been meeting closely, meeting almost weekly, so i believe... almost weekly. very impressive. some people might meet every couple of days at that level of government. i will leave that. perhaps i am being mischievous. more serious is this, mahathir is 94 next year,

you've he might go on until 95, you have given him that flexibility, it's not me. anwar will be 72, 73. you and your colleagues have given him that flexibility. in a country with a median age half a century lower even than anwar‘s age, why notjust skip a generation, let the young people, not necessarily you, i won't embarrass you like that, someone who is merely a0 take charge? i think what matters is the demand and the will of the people, and when we entered into that coalition, a difficult coalition, but we were able to put aside our differences, it is an agreement which was made by all of us. i believe whether it's dr mahathir or anwar ibrahim, the youth leadership of the coalition will always be respected and their voices heard. as i mentioned before, my goal in this new malaysia is not to govern for the next 50 or 100 years, we will be voted out at one point in time, but what matters is institutional reforms, what matters is empowering the youth today. even when there is a change in government, the voices of young people... and communities, communities across the board need

to have an equal voice. of course. in the end... so why have you joined a party which only permits people from indigenous communities to stand for election? because i believe what's most important is that the coalition which governs all malaysians is important. not all parties are. this is a country which had race riots at the end of 1960s, it introduced affirmative—action poliicies, if it still has political parties that are based on race, and notjust traditionally based on race, but that actually prevent you from being a candidate if you were from the 24% that was chinese or the 7% who is indian, or other minority communities, that's the kind of thing that would prove what you mean, notjust the warm words, i am sure they are sincere but they don't matter a jot unless you change the things for opportunity. let's look at malaysian history. in 1957, when we sought independence, the indigenous

community only held about 2—3% of the economic equity of the nation. 90% of the population came from the indigenous community. on top of that, out of 8,000 businesses in the 1970s, only 9% were held by the indigenous community. we are not... and now we're in 2019. exactly, exactly. so you are telling me don't be imprisoned by the past, 5, ll, lvll szlél..l l’lfi what about other minority communities?

mmmmmmqf you can ask him yourself. he made the position to lead the team when the time came. he determined when the time came? he did. even ifsomebodg, said ! in our government? the point is the work is based on merit. i think that is what matters the most when we move forward. charles santiago, an mp, who supports your coalition as it translates. pa katan ha £2 ggg translates, he says numan afifi was the victim

of regressive treatment. if you believe so, i have his phone number, you can call him now. you can call him after. maybe after the programme, we will lose time. what do you make of charles santiago‘s comments? the most important thing is to allow these individuals... was it regressive treatment? this part, i disagree. 0k. i think what matters to most is that everyone should have a voice liza _: l l: ll ll ll,:3—ll.l. §