hello it's thursday, 10 o'clock, i'm joanna gosling. the man convicted of the manslaughter of speedboat victim charlotte brown has handed himself in in georgia and efforts have begun to bring him back to the uk. i hope thatjustice will be done and my appeal will succeed and that i... that everyone can move forward with their lives. it comes after charlotte's dad made a direct appeal to jack shepherd on this programme yesterday — calling on him to give himself up. we'll have reaction from graham brown, and charlotte's sister katie, in a few minutes‘ time. cases are being dropped and criminals are going free because a new computer system is "unfit for purpose" — that's according to serving police officers who've talked exclusively to this programme. it is overly bureaucratic. it doesn't understand police investigative process at all. we are at breaking point already. and this could probably tip some officers over the edge, i would say.

we've used actors to speak the words of those serving police officers — because they put theirjobs at risk by speaking out about the system which crashes so often it's led to staff being signed off with stress. and a new plan to tackle drug resistant superbugs by developing new kinds of antiobiotics. derek butler has lost three relatives to the superbug mrsa. we'll be talking to him at around 10:30. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. do you worry about giving antibiotics to your children? or are you a gp who is constantly asked to prescribe them when they're not the right treatment? the government has today announced a major plan to develop new antibiotics in an effort to tackle the superbugs that are becoming increasingly resistant to them.

do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about — use the hashtag #victorialive. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you and maybe want to take part in the programme please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. here's carrie gracie with a summary of the day's news. in the past are, we have heard that the former scottish first minister alex salmond has been arrested. in a statement police scotland said a 64—year—old man has been charged and will appear in court later, following his arrest last night. it is unclear at this stage why he has been detained. the family of a woman who died in a speedboat crash on the thames say her killer showed unbelievable arrogance when he appeared on tv. jack shepherd handed himself in the police station in georgia yesterday, six months after being convicted of charlie brown's

manslaughter. yesterday he told reporters he would clear his name. we will be speaking to charlotte's father and sister live on a programme in the next few minutes. and you plan to tackle drug resista nt and you plan to tackle drug resistant superbugs is unveiled by the government including proposals to encourage the development of new antibiotics. health secretary matt hancock said unless new drugs were found, a simple grace to become papal. the government plan to change the way it funds drug companies to encourage them to develop new medicines. a new computer system used by police forces is so i but the purpose, criminals are escaping justice. that is according to serving officers who have been speaking exclusively to this programme. athena was meant to speed up programme. athena was meant to speed up police work but we have been told it regularly crashes, causing cases to be dropped the start being signed off work with stress. programme developers say that it recognises

that improvements need to be made. president trump says he will not deliver his annual state of the union speech until the us government shutdown is over. yesterday house speaker nancy pelosi withdrew an invitation for him to address congress, saying government services should fully reopen first. the shutdown has left 800,000 bed all staff without pay for the past four weeks. the prime minister will aim to find compromise with trade union leaders later, as she discusses the next steps per brexit plan. theresa may will meet the leaders of the tuc, unison, the unite union and the gmb, after her deal was overwhelmingly voted down by mps last week. a number of union leaders have backed calls to delay the uk exit from the eu, and some support another referendum. 0ne exit from the eu, and some support another referendum. one of a story, for many drivers, finding a parking

space or being able to park is the biggest challenge of owning a car. a new trial is hoping to see robots do it. gatwick airport plans to introduce stanley, the parking droid, to its car park. a small robot similar to a forklift truck, which picks up cars, and parks them ina which picks up cars, and parks them in a designated space using gps technology. its creators say it will create more space technology. its creators say it will create more space because cars can be part closer together. good luck with that, gatwick! that is the latest bbc news. back to you, joanna. serving police officers have been talking exclusively redo our programme about a new badly working computer system. one has got in touch to say that athena, the system we are talking about, is a nightmare. and the biggest problem

is that the bosses who don't use the system a re is that the bosses who don't use the system are in denial about how bad it is. everything takes so long that proactive policing and foot patrols are now a thing of the past. the system is unstable and not user—friendly. a simple court file that used to take 45 minutes now ta kes that used to take 45 minutes now takes four hours. another user on twitter says that it has changed how they do business, they have to take they do business, they have to take the entire system down for hours every time they patch it. then they have to roll back a patch, because it killed the entire system the other day. if you have direct experience on that please get in touch with your thoughts through the usual ways of getting in touch. efforts are under way to extradite to the uk the man convicted of the manslaughter of 2a year old charlotte brown — who was killed in a speedboat accident on the thames while on a date. jack shepherd had been on the run for ten months, until he handed himself in to a police station in georgia yesterday. charlotte's sister katie and her dad graham brownjoin me now. they were on the programme

yesterday. there was a sudden change in developments, so thank you for coming in. let's take a look at the pictures of him, because he was on television after he handed himself m, television after he handed himself in,jack television after he handed himself in, jack shepherd, and i think we can see him actually walking in front of the cameras and smiling. and i know katie that really affected you to see that. quite a shock to see him smiling, waving, just strolling in still as if he has done no wrong, and still claiming innocence and making excuses, saying that he wants justice. what about justice for charlie? it is just unbelievable. i don't think he has shown any remorse. he just seems to not accept or have no knowledge of the devastation, hurt and pain he

has caused. he's in the nile of what his actions have done. he'sjust thinking about himself at this stage —— he's in denial. thinking about himself at this stage -- he's in denial. yesterday, graham, you put out an appeal to him to give himself up. let's just see what you said yesterday. i would say to jack shepherd, you have caused our family a lot of harm and devastation but, really, you need to look at what you've done and come back and atone for the damage that you've done. you need to come back and serve your sentence, not only because that's the right thing to do, but you need to do that so that you can begin to move on yourself. it can't be any fun being a fugitive. it doesn't sound any fun to me. but please, if you're watching this, hand yourself in. there's an awful lot of resources, the police, the home office, the national crime agency, they are looking for you, and i am personally never going to rest or stop until you are in custody.

do you think that may have somehow made a difference? we had the home secretary's visit and i came out of that and you just felt that the momentum and the resources and the priority, if they were not there before, were now there, and i think that possibly gave it the shock and momentum that it needed. i think possibly, i don't know whyjack shepherd chose to hang himself in. possibly, i don't know whyjack shepherd chose to hang himself inlj think he has done it for selfish reasons. i don't think he has seen that and felt remorse and any ownership of what has happened. the first thing he did was do a tv interview, and to claim innocence. if he wanted to defend himself he should have turned up at trial, and given his statement under oath, but

he made no comment statement to being cautioned in the interview with police, so, how can we believe what he is saying now?|j with police, so, how can we believe what he is saying now? i can tell you're both really angry, understandably so, about how things have unfolded, how long this has taken. did you feel emotion yesterday that this moment you have been waiting for the so long had happened? it was a very emotional moment. the three years, it has been quite draining. apart from the devastation of losing charlotte, we have had delay after delay. we eventually get to the court and the trial and jack shepherd was not there, and that robbed us of, i don't know, seeing him on the stand, and his version of what happened, so we have only ever heard his

statements from afar, this time he is from georgia, and yesterday was like a release. it was like a release is the only way i could describe it. how about you? shock and relief, but just describe it. how about you? shock and relief, butjust now, increasingly angry at the fact that he is still fighting against, he has been found guilty, and he is still saying that he wants to carry on with his appeal, he wants to fight his extradition. when will he have some decency and have some respect for the back that he has cost charlie pro—life, and what he's put us charlie pro—life, and what he's put us through? we have to sit through that file, and he was off in georgia looking at the scenery and out socialising. —— we have to sit

through that trial. he's protesting his innocence, and graham, he's accusing you of having put on pressure that led them being charged over something he said was originally treated as tragic accident. i was involved in a tragic accident in 2015. in which a lady called charlotte brown tragically died. after a long period were the police treated it, rightly, i believe, as an accident, after significant pressure from her father, the police decided to prosecute me for manslaughter. i hope thatjustice will be done and that my appeal will succeed and i canjust... that everyone can move forward with their lives. it is incredibly inaccurate. the laws on the river need to be

tightened and police burst did struggle with what had happened —— police at first struggled with what had happened because there is no equivalent of death by dangerous driving on the water but if it was ina car, driving on the water but if it was in a car, he would have been arrested straightaway. it was an extremely complex, difficult case, something which was totally out of my control. the cps made the decision to get the case reviewed because of its complexities by the serious homicide squad who took it over and they did a fantastic investigation, and they managed to get it past the cbs because the labour —— the level of proof for gross negligence is very high. to say that i could possibly influence thatis say that i could possibly influence that is very misleading and inaccurate. i'm in a low level

position in the civil service. and in actual fact ifjack shepherd knew the truth, and the truth was after the truth, and the truth was after the death of my daughter, i was so profoundly affected by it, i had to retire, so i have taken partial retirement, and my work, the ministry ofjustice have given me a low—level admin role to help me through this, so to say that i have any influence at all is so inaccurate, it defies belief. so jack shepherd must believe what he wants to believe, but people who know me and know what the family's been through and the criminal justice system, it is very inaccurate to say that... his reasons for not turning up have changed. there was a statement that he lost faith in his uk lawyer, he said he went to georgia to see friends then stayed, he is not

consistent in what he's saying and it does not match his original statement. defined at how long it might take for him to come back to this country, we are joined might take for him to come back to this country, we arejoined by might take for him to come back to this country, we are joined by a former head of extradition at the cps, and now a lawyer at the firm peters and peters. how long did it take? —— could it take? peters and peters. how long did it take? -- could it take? georgian theocracy is not going to be the quickest, i'm assuming. there are various layers involving diplomatic as well as legal processes —— georgian bureaucracy. but he wants to come back now, so he may consent to come back now, so he may consent to his extradition which could fast forward the process. there's a suggestion that his georgian lawyer has not ruled him fighting extradition. if he chose to do that how long could the process then

take? if you bought it, which would be unusual, then —— if he fought it, it could take many months, he could have a technical argument on whether gross negligence or manslaughter is also an offence in georgia because that has to be dual criminality in this kind of case, but i can't think of many other technical arguments he could run so it might be that processes in georgia just take a long time. you had a question for nick, graham. even matter if he fought it and he was successful what would that then mean? does he stay ina georgian would that then mean? does he stay in a georgian prison would he then be released? i suspect he will stay ina georgian be released? i suspect he will stay in a georgian prison throughout the extradition process. if he was discharged after successfully resisting an extradition request he would be theoretically safe in georgia but if he moved to any other

country then the process could start again and he would have an extradition request for any other country that he found himself in. and in terms of bringing him back here, then ultimately, and facing trial, the fact that he has been on the run, he launched an appeal whilst he was on the run, having been on the run, how does that impact on what has gone on before and infuture? impact on what has gone on before and in future? it will not impact on his appeal which willjust won its course. he will be brought back and he will be charged with failing conditions of bail and will be taken in front of the crown court, the judge who presided over his trial, he will take a very dim view, as any judge would if somebody absconded in the circumstances, causing so much distress to charlotte's family, and still maintain his appeal, which he was entitled to do but it could be perceived that the stress he is causing has aggravated circumstances which would be an extra 12 months he

could have to serve, and may stand evenif could have to serve, and may stand even if he successfully appeal his conviction. so, grim and katie, the next thing is thinking about when you might be back in court and come face to face with him —— graham and katie. he has his appeal hearing, i do not know which is heard first but i guess it will play out. it has been widely reported that a serious offe nce been widely reported that a serious offence in exeter has to go to be dealt with. i don't think we should talk about other offences, but in terms of being in court, you were in court and you had come face—to—face with him. how do you feel now about that? we didn't realise how close we would come to him. just... that? we didn't realise how close we

would come to him. just... he has shown himself, from what i've seen of him, to be a very arrogant, immature man who needs to face up to what he has done, sol immature man who needs to face up to what he has done, so i will be at the court hearings to see that he does face up to what he has done. and we can just does face up to what he has done. and we canjust hope that we are close now to getting justice for charlotte. let's not forget, this is about our daughter who cannot be here, who has had her life robbed from her because of this man. she would still be alive if it was not forjack shepherd. and the pain and devastation caused, everyone who knew charlotte knew what a wonderful, caring, loving person she was which is the polar opposite to what everything shepherd is. thank you both for coming in. it is obviously awful for you to talk about it. we appreciate you coming in to talk about this case. thank

you, and thank you as well, nick. the former scottish first minister alex salmond has been arrested and charged. 0ur alex salmond has been arrested and charged. our home affairs correspondent for scotland is in glasgow, what can you tell us, reevel? a bold, blandly statement that says a 64—year—old man has been arrested and charged and the report has gone to the procurator fiscal. i have had it confirmed that man is alex salmond. we don't know yet what he has been charged with which court he has been charged with which court he will appear in but we expect him to appear in court at a later date. he's in custody. this follows allegations made a year ago in january last year by two women who worked for mr salmond at the scottish government, in december 2013. they complained about his conduct. there was an internal investigation launched by the scottish government. that investigation was complained about

by mr salmond, as being unfair. he took the scottish government to court, and last month he won a victory in which a judge said that investigation had had on their elements to it. in the meantime, in september last year, police scotland said they were beginning their own inquiry into the allegations made against mr salmond, and it is that inquiry which has led to today's arrest and charges. alongside all of this political machinations is the fa ct this political machinations is the fact that nicola sturgeon, the current first minister, has referred herself to an independent adviser and also msp is at holyrood have said they will carry out their own inquiry into how the allegations we re inquiry into how the allegations were reviewed. thank you very much. serving police officers have exclusively told us a new computer

system is so "unfit for purpose", criminals are "escaping justice". it's called athena, and nine police forces use it in england and wales. it promised to speed up how quickly crimes were detected — but we've learnt it regularly crashes, causing cases to be dropped, and staff getting signed off work with stress. the system developers have apologised to officers for any disruption caused, while the forces argue the system has still brought many benefits. ? 0ur reporterjames waterhouse has the story. i think the first two weeks when we had athena brought in were probably the worst two weeks of my entire career. it has let the whole criminal justice system down. there were times when detainees missed their medication. it takes a long time to input the information. a lot longer than it did previously. non—functioning, and with cases being thrown out, that can't be right. at present it is absolutely not fit for purpose. officers are already at breaking point. we can't carry on like this. enough‘s enough. it has made an impossible job unbearable. it took the murder of two

schoolgirls to fundamentally change how police forces talk to each other. in 2002, holly wells and jessica chapman were killed by ian huntley. he was a school caretaker in soham in cambridge. huntley was given two life sentences. the resulting inquiry, the bichard report, found that the humberside and cambridge forces didn't disclose that he'd been accused of several sex—related crimes, including sex with underage girls. there were eight separate bits of intelligence, but because they were not held together nothing happened. in respect of the two most important recommendations, the police national it intelligence system and a registration or barring scheme for those working with children, a very great deal remains to be done before we can claim success. that was 200a.

fast forward to 2011 and a new database was set up to allow all 43 forces across the uk to share intelligence on 15 million people, including suspects, criminals and victims. the year after that, at a cost of £32 million, seven forces signed up to project athena, and new online system pulling everything together. it promised to speed up the detecting of crimes and the identifying of suspects. that was the hope. nine forces have now signed up to athena. we have spoken to serving officers from three of them, hertfordshire and bedfordshire, which had it rolled out after a delay last year and essex, which started on it in 2015. actors are speaking their words because they have risked their careers by talking to us. from day one it malfunctioned. nearly four years later

it is still malfunctioning. it is overly bureaucratic. it doesn't understand police investigative process at all. we are at breaking point already. this will probably tip some officers over the edge, i would say. the system does two main things — sharing intelligence, which most officers have welcomed and say works, but also builds cases from the point of arrest to sending the file it is here that it appears to break down. once they are in custody the process can take a while. we used to get it done and dusted with one officer, now i clock on duty and wait for athena to load. it is unusual if it allows me into it first time. i then have to select endless buttons to look at the overnight crimes. most of the time a glitch in the system means that i can't

look at the detail recorded on the crime. after morning meetings i allocate the crimes for my area to local officers. this now takes me at least half of my shift because the system is so obstructive. even for a simple shoplift i have to press about 50 buttons. with a 30 second minimum loading time between each task. with a prisoner in custody we are still looking at at least five hours overtime. it often requires information that is totally irrelevant. and if you missjust one data entry point, like whether a solicitor is male orfemale, i have to send it back to the officer to rectify and reject the whole case. caroline woodley is a criminal lawyer in essex. her clients usually come to her after they find themselves in handcuffs. usually it would take 20 minutes to book someone in, 30 minutes. sometimes if the computer is not working it can take hours. it can take 1—2 hours,

it can take longer than that. and if there is a lot of people waiting to be booked in that delay is then compounded with people waiting, some clients can be waiting 2—4 hours, just to be booked into custody. that is a couple of hours where you are not being risk—assessed, so, you know, if they have got mental health needs, that is not being looked at, you are not able to let someone know you have been arrested. if you are a juvenile, you can't call your mum to say where you are. and you're not getting access to legal advice. these frustrations highlight what has been a pretty difficult timeline for policing. we've already had austerity measures. athena was brought in to save money. these officers argue that it is taking them from the streets and glueing them to a desk. it directly affects members of the public because we are not on the streets as much as we should be. when you put

detainees in the custody block they have various illnesses, ailments, medical conditions that are all recorded. if they need medication at certain times. it became very dangerous because we were unable to access their records. as a custody officer, we were more focused on the computer than on the block. and the prime role of the custody officer is to look after the inmates who are in the custody block. forces claim there are lots of benefits to athena and say it is a strong intelligence system but they admit they can see why officers are frustrated. someone who is playing themselves is paul, who is playing themselves is paul, who was a detective at essex police where he served for 30 years. the fa ct where he served for 30 years. the fact is, police services were told to save money, the seven respective forces collaborated, thinking that the money they were spending was good but who is to answer for these issues, and more to the point, what

issues, and more to the point, what is the future, what does the future look like not only for officers but for the public? the sharing of intelligence is fantastic. and so it should be. buti intelligence is fantastic. and so it should be. but i go back to the point around, if officers are given a simple task in order to investigate a crime, they can't carry that out because they have got such a bureaucratic computer system. the public won't report crimes. this is crime suppression. because they are not getting the outcome that they would like. the developers behind athena arab company called northgate public services which recognises the last ill issues to be ironed out. they stated... few will argue with the endeavour of

making it easier for forces to talk to each other. but the sticking point that these officers is the effect it's having on the day—to—day jobs and crucially the prospect of criminals escaping the law simply because of a computer crashing. the police service are fantastic but sometimes they are not very good at putting their hands up when they have got it wrong and that's what i find quite sad. i'll talk to james ina find quite sad. i'll talk to james in a moment. some comments coming into us, and anonymous textures, says an officer who has used it enough forfour years says an officer who has used it enough for four years is far outweighed by the positives, pro—training to all forces who have adopted this but given experience in time with the system and efforts will be seen. these officers can be institutionalised when it comes to

procedural change and by embracing it positives will become apparent and no, i am it positives will become apparent and no, iam nota senior it positives will become apparent and no, i am not a senior officer or hold a financial stake. david says we have a similar problem with something called niche in wales, the problem to me seems that these are designed by it specialists with no contact with front line staff who need to use these. another anonymous viewer says athena is truly designed, crimes are going on recorded, minor and serious. you need to ask which firm officers who now sit in senior positions within the company purchased this from. let's get the latest from james. welljames joins me now because officers received an email about athena since our filming? — what does it say? yesterday the deputy chief constable of essex police matthew horne emailed all five and a half thousand staff — and he describes feeling disheartened that both the force and athena are appearing "negatively" in today's victoria derbyshire programme. he says "i'm sorry there are colleagues that do not believe that your leaders are genuinely

working on these issues which are genuinely aimed at making our working lives better. he describes athena as a house, and now all eight other forces are on board it's now built, and it's time to improve it. officers at hertfordshire have had a similar email from their assistant chief constable mike colbourne, warning them about today's film — and stressing the benefits of athena allowing forces to talk to each other, unlike before. so what can we take from this? that athena isn't going anywhere for now. the leadership is saying stick with it, we will make it better. you can see them nodding to frustration, these are planned outages. the analogy we are given is that it's a £35 million train running down the track, it's hard to reverse that despite is now knowing officers would like that to happen. some of them. james, thank you. we can speak to simon kempton from the police federation — which represents rank

and file officers. thank you for coming in and i know you're forced to set uses the niche system which was mentioned in the tweet i have read out. we've not been able to speak to anyone from niche to get their view on what's been said but what's your experience been, you had similar, had you?” spoke to colleagues first of all in essex this morning and i have to say, i'm really gratified that senior say, i'm really gratified that senior managers say, i'm really gratified that senior managers they aren't gauged with the problem and they genuinely believe they are doing all they can to solve the issue. but the frustration is we could have avoided this by better testing i think at the beginning. the police federation with policing inside, we undertook a national survey, the police officers. the first that ever been done and they told us all these issues, issues with lots of different systems, notjust issues, issues with lots of different systems, not just seen. and what isn't happening is when these companies come to the procurement process, i believe the government and senior officers in

the police should say we are going to test it, get what we call the sign off from front line officers and they say it's good we will buy your product if they say it needs work, we will come back. we could have been able to pick up these problems along time ago. that's the frustration. the public will be thinking there are so many desperate systems at, we've heard from the deputy chief constable of their six saying they are working to fix that but in the meantime went people here people are not being prosecuted as the result of issues within a computer system, it would make people question their faith in the whole system. that's right, there's fewer officers today than at any time in my life and i'm not young. the fewer officers, the more reliant we are an it so that's why it's

important that works first time, every time. real disappointment is we are having to push our officers further and further, we heard on the videojust further and further, we heard on the video just before we spoke, officers are being pushed over the edge because of the stress they get caught between trying to do as good a job as possible but with one hand tied behind their back with bad it. having to replicate work, putting the same data into different systems time and again because they don't speak to each other and these issues should relatively easy to overcome. something called api that's computer speak, it's how different systems speak, it's how different systems speak to each other so if you put something on is too cramped and you posted automatically to twitter or facebook on the reason you can do thatis facebook on the reason you can do that is the api on these systems allows the systems to talk. not all systems do that. hopefully it'll better fanaticism. i've been systems do that. hopefully it'll betterfanaticism. i've been begging softwa re betterfanaticism. i've been begging software producers, open up your api and at the systems top to each other

and at the systems top to each other and that will allow us to give a better service to the public. we are getting lots of comments on this, one twitter users says as well as crashing and being slow my case was assigned a police officer who gone on maternity leave. an anonymous texture, a senior serving officer says acuna rises every day, it's not designed forfront line says acuna rises every day, it's not designed for front line usage, it's about system and no one will put their hands up and admit it is flawed. nine forces claim there at lots of benefits to athena and say it's a stronger intelligence system but say they see what officers are frustrated, northgate public services which developed athena says as with any major it undertaking of this kind some challenges have been encountered. athena connects to and relies on many components of it which makes it a complex solution. we recognise there are small number of areas of the solution where improvements can be made and we apologise for difficulties this has caused. thank you so much, simon. coming up injust a moment...

a new plan to fight superbugs — ministers want drug firms to develop new antibiotics and stop people overusing existing ones. we're getting reaction from one man who has lost three relatives to mrsa, and now campaigns to bring down rates for all drug resistant illnesses. and — do you know your ‘backstop' from your ‘article 50'? your ‘customs union‘ from your ‘no deal‘? we‘re simplifying brexitjargon with a children‘s author and two stand—up comedians. 0veruse of antibiotics is making infections harder to treat and is responsible for thousands of deaths each year. today, the government is to say drug—resistant superbugs are as big a threat as climate change. and to tackle this they‘re unveiling a new five year plan to deal with the issue. the plan will include a scheme to incentivise companies to develop new drugs and to cut the use of antibiotics in humans. since 2014, the uk has already cut the?amount? of antibiotics it uses by? more than?7 per cent. (ani) ?but the number

of? drug—resista nt infections has increased by 35% from 2013 to 2017. we can speak now to dr clare gerada — a gp and former chair of the royal college of gps,;dr manal mohammed, ? lecturer and researcher in microbiology at the university of westminster; and in salford we can speak to derek butler — he has lost three relatives to mrsa, and now campaigns to bring down rates for all drug resistant illnesses. welcome all of you and thank you for joining us. tell us exactly what a superbug is, it is a day when we are busting jargon, let‘s be absolutely clear what we are talking about and how common these things are stop superbugs are bacterium that become resista nt to superbugs are bacterium that become

resistant to more than antibiotics that used to be effective. we have many examples of superbugs. that infected humans and also can infect animals like mrsa stop sta phylococcus. animals like mrsa stop staphylococcus. we have foodborne pathogens that can be associated with sporadic cases and outbreaks which can affect many people. bacteria have developed defence mechanisms because of the overuse of antibiotics. they become resistant, the antibiotic becomes not effective at all, not being able to kill the bacteria or inhibit the growth. there are two macro aspects being talked about today from the government talking about prescribing, we‘ll talk about that ina prescribing, we‘ll talk about that in a moment but the other thing is encouraging drugs companies to develop more treatments. i isn‘t there a treatment for mrsa, is it

because drugs companies don‘t have the incentives or is it because it is so fiendishly difficult? there are drugs, 0k is so fiendishly difficult? there are drugs, ok but as i said, the bacteria have developed resistance, they don‘t become effective. and the issueis they don‘t become effective. and the issue is mainly it‘s based on the misuse of the antibiotics. we overuse antibiotics and not only for use in humans in clinical medicine but also in food, we use antibiotics as food additives or growth promotion in order to increase the growth for the animal or production. we can soon products, those annals... milk and food. so this is annals... milk and food. so this is a big issue. and about x are there and the companies develop antibiotics but it‘s very expensive at the moment. and antibiotics, the cycle will be repeated. there are

some antibiotics in the development, theissue some antibiotics in the development, the issue that the bacteria will develop against the systems will starve you are fighting a losing battle. it is worrying, isn't it? looking at the statistics, the prescribing of antibiotics has gone down, drug—resistant prescribing of antibiotics has gone down, drug—resista nt infections prescribing of antibiotics has gone down, drug—resistant infections are going up. how much have things changed in terms of what you are doing and understanding amongst patients? i think there's been a massive change in patients and the publicly of antibiotics. i've been a gp for30 publicly of antibiotics. i've been a gp for 30 years of 30 years ago patients would demand antibiotics, you would be giving them most like smarties. ten years ago we became aware of resistance and the problem of patients still demanding them. now it's difficult, if i have a mother with a young child, please ta ke mother with a young child, please take these and the biotics, your child needs them, the mother will say i don't want them. there has beena say i don't want them. there has been a change, good change. as you said in your piece, this is as

serious as climate change and it's notjust serious as climate change and it's not just having a serious as climate change and it's notjust having a sore serious as climate change and it's not just having a sore throat that won't be managed, it you won't have your hip replacement, cancer treatment, your renal transplant. you cannot survive without antibiotics. in terms of understanding when you or your child is prescribed antibiotics for the greater good, the use of under biotics is supposed to be reduced but it‘s not going to have a direct effect on that child in particular, is it? it will, if you are for use under biotics at a young age, you become resistant. your child becomes resistant to antibiotics, and if you then... how much would you have to ta ke then... how much would you have to take the then to be resistant? those individual resistance and is heard resistance which is what we have been talking about. i don't know how much you have to take what i do know most people do not require antibiotics. most people throughout their life don't require antibiotics. it's unusual to get a bacterial infection that requires

antibiotics yet it was one of the most commonly used drugs. i would like to say now, the electronic systems, medical record systems take you through an algorithm and the final bit of it is saying you really really sure you need to prescribed antibiotics? we are putting systems in the practice to start reminding us in the practice to start reminding us not to prescribe them and as i said, ithink us not to prescribe them and as i said, i think the public is coming with us on this. most of the infection she get our viral infections and time willjust heal. derek, i mentioned three people who we re very derek, i mentioned three people who were very close to you died at mrsa which is obviously absolutely devastating for you. you have this awful personal experience of what drug—resistant awful personal experience of what drug—resista nt infections can awful personal experience of what drug—resistant infections can do. sorry... yes, it gives me a different perspective of the issue come third to the other people on the show. to be honest with you i see one simple problem. and that is

that doctors are still prescribing antibiotics the same way they were in 1945. guesswork. in otherwords, a patient comes, they are not sure, isa a patient comes, they are not sure, is a viral or bacterial, if it is bacterial, which bacteria is it? i leave we need to step into the 215t—century and yes, we need to develop new antimicrobials but we need to prevent infections and we need to prevent infections and we need to prevent infections and we need to treat the infection is correctly, right, first time.” don‘t know if you could hear what was saying but she said from the gp prospective and have changed a lot and the message is getting through toa and the message is getting through to a lot of people who are saying you don‘t want antibiotics now because they are worried. it is but we need rapid testing. that gp can test someone and within10—15 minutes they can prescribe the correct antibiotics. the one that

will treat the infection properly. not a broad spectrum which is part of the problem in the first place. he is absolutely right. we are talking about near testing, you come with a sore throat, can i do a swap, cani with a sore throat, can i do a swap, can i ask you to wait in the waiting room and get a result? at the moment we don't have the technology to do that and it's not set up in the clinical systems but hopefully that is the future, that we will be able to be much more accurate. is it available, it‘s just not ruled out? you can do it in hospitals. we now have sequencing technology. we can sequence have sequencing technology. we can sequence the genome of the bacteria within minutes. and we can determine the antimicrobial resistance mechanisms and identify the best antibiotic but this is not available in all clinics. it still expensive. gene sequencing in new gp practice

isn't around the corner. the tory on e—mail says at halloween took my son to the gp with a rash of his mouth, he wasn‘t given antibiotics, it developed into pneumonia, toxic shock, he was in intensive care for over a week and in hospitalfor a month. i took him to my gp under walk—in—centre, he was transferred to hospital and discharged the same day. the following morning i took into the hospital, he was discharged, the following day he was admitted by emergency ambulance to resuscitation with a complete colla pse resuscitation with a complete collapse long and pneumonia. 0nly then did they start and the biotics. i asked my day might —— myself every day, what if he had a short course of antibiotics? that's the problem we face every day and i worry about this. some people need antibiotics and are we going to be scaling up the risks of not prescribing rather than prescribing but, you know, that i think is an exceptional case. 0n

the whole, what we have is a young person coming in with a sore throat of two days duration, a little bit of two days duration, a little bit of pass on the tonsils wanting antibiotics. 0n the whole those at viral infections that will get better with antibiotics. thank you all very much. do you know your backstop from your article 50? how about the difference between a customs union and the single market? there‘s a good chance that before the eu referendum, you might not even have heard the words and phrases that now dominate the debate about how, when and whether we leave the european union. in a moment we‘re going to hear from the children‘s author and broadcaster micheal rosen and two standup comedians who are going to try to cut through the jargon. but first, how much do you know about some of those words and phrases from the world of brexit? we went to ask people in south london. what‘s known by the customs union? uh. basically we all trade together as one. what's that, mate? customs union? i don't understand that. well, you have the customs union which is the breaking down

of borders so that a washing machine can be moved from place to place. so, we're tied to, with europe, with the what? with the customs union, does that mean much to you? i don't know. sorry. that‘s all right, no problem. cheers, see you later. what is meant by the single market? no idea. the single market is the removal of borders and customs arrangements between states, isn't it? isn't it brussels? they run us. yeah. they tell us what to do. have you heard anyone use the phrase customs union in the single market? no. and how does the customs union differ from the single market? the single market would be basically... ithink... that's a really good question! and what does wto stand for? world trade organisation. wto ? i ain‘t got a clue, mate. no idea. world trade organisation maybe, or something like that. yeah, exactly, world trade organisation. what you think is meant by a no deal?

that we are not going to leave the eu. i don't understand it but i was told to vote out. the deal means we leave e f 7.2 5 z; i; ; ,,i| any idea what the erg is? no. european research group. no, i don't know what that is. what‘s the backstop? the backstop? oh, no. if i said the northern irish backstop, would that help? i don‘t know... still. that's through the irish border, isn't it? it's in northern ireland, isn't it? the... if you can't come to an arrangement between britain and northern ireland, you have to rely on that because no—one can agree on anything in northern ireland.

no idea. years after doing it, which wig-35 dgnggi which ends on march 29th. yeah, exactly, yeah. what you think is meant by hard brexit? i don‘t know. how about a withdrawal agreement? no idea. 0k, what about the eea? nope. did i get that one right? they are pretty representative. the people we found yesterday. - of people we found yesterday. lots of people we found yesterday. lots of people finding this difficult to grapple with. with us now to talk through some of those tricky terms and what they mean

are the children‘s author michael rosen — who wrote ‘we‘re going on a bear hunt‘ and hosts a radio programme looking at the world of words and how we use them. also here are standup comedians simon evans and matt forde. matt used to work for the labour party so knows a thing or two about political communication. whose fault is this, who is not communicating this well enough? we use these words but not well enough, we talk about an article, and then we talk about an article, and then we have a thing called article 50, we have a thing called article 50, we move to cross what happens is words are being used in ways that are unfamiliar. if you sit back stop, what is that? it‘s an american metaphor. we‘ve got something quite complicated, this guy stands behind the baseball and says that a backstop. if you want the idea catching, you have a wicketkeeper but we call it a backstop. it wicketkeeper wouldn't say implausible. why is it a backstop?

where did that come from? people struggle with these things because the words used are not familiar. that is part of the problem. let's ta ke that is part of the problem. let's take a look at the actual explanation of backstop. a back—up plan to ensure there are no physical are checks on people or barriers are checks on people or goods forcing the border between northern ireland and the republic of ireland after the uk please the eu if we leave without a deal. but that‘s not true, it‘s a new arrangement. 0r carrying on the arrangement. 0r carrying on the arrangement after brexit. but to see arrangement after brexit. but to see a backstop suggests someone is going to pick up the pieces, metaphorically at that. this is the thing, it‘s like we can boil it down into the explanation but it‘s so complicated. how do you deal with that in the world of comedy? analogies are helpful. that's part of the problem, the backstop itself is an analogy, so you are doing an analogy of an analogy. or even a metaphor. it's trying to break

through the pomposity. a difference between legitimate, i don't have a problem with the backstop as a metaphor for an analogy, it's other stuff, when people used deliberately opaque language like borisjohnson and jacob rees mogg to obfuscate and create a sense of confusion. the backstop pretty much makes sense to me. i don't have a problem with that. it makes sense to some extent but all that is, delaying the point at which you have to engage with what is actually happening. by using a simple word like waxed up the suggestion is, you understand, it's a backstop. how are you going to do it? you got a situation in ireland, you have a soft border and no one is being is stopped and the backstop as the proposition that if no arrangement is come to them that is guaranteed but you haven't explained how. by calling it a backstop all you have done is... hiding behind it is the good friday agreement. every time they said backstop theirs is a

good bit going on, we‘ve got to do this because of the good friday agreement, but they say backstop come they are hiding behind it and that‘s something quite massive. come they are hiding behind it and that's something quite massive. this is part of the problem with the withdrawal agreement, the whole withdrawal agreement, the whole withdrawal agreement, the whole withdrawal agreement is immensely vague. read even 2—3 pages of it, most of it has not agreed. very few areas we have actually agreed the departure. we are arguing about the future relationship... it is death to stand up. you must not talk about it at all. all you can talk about on stage as a stand—up is how boring it is, how long it's taking. i have a joke to the effect it's taking longer to detach politically than europe than it did geologically and at that level people can understand we all recognise an emotional reaction to the whole thing. but as soon as you reaction to the whole thing. but as soon as you try and identify or isolate any particular part of this proposal, everyone's eyes frost over. let's move onto no deal.

britain leaving the european union was no formal agreement in the uk withdrawal of future trade relations. there‘s actually a lot of confusion around that with some people thinking no deal means not even leaving, no brexit at all. that is worrying, i went to a great presentation at kings college and 30-40% of presentation at kings college and 30—40% of people think no deal means no brexit. i suppose what you are saying, that‘s quite interesting, in the world of contracts, some of us signed contracts, freelancers, the idea there is no deal walk away, no deal between you. no deal is a deal. what? no deal is a delay? no deal is a day, you don't walk away with nothing, you walk away with a certain set of rules, wto rules. whether it‘s no deal with the eu, that‘s all right. no deal works for me. even brexit means different

things to different people, doesn‘t it? there is soft brexit. let‘s say what soft brexit means, there it is. it's in the jargon. do you remember greg said? and hard exit... comes down to what you think the european union is. but other people it means the single market and customs union. i don't think the vast majority of people knew what the single market customs union was before the referendum, they become

terribly animated about. yesterday in the commons theresa may was seen tojeremy in the commons theresa may was seen to jeremy corbyn in the commons theresa may was seen tojeremy corbyn he didn‘t understand that she was raising various issues around the common market and customs union, i don‘t know that was true. i think it's a game of monopoly, the eu is a game of monopoly, you are playing financial games inside this system of rules that is inside the box of the monopoly game, the monopoly board and what‘s happening, britannia says don‘t want to play any more. you get me? do you know what? i think this was supposed to be, we were hoping everyone would understand that! what you want to do is fill a bath with sand, take out the plug on film at an player back in reverse. if you have found that you understand the issues any better asa you understand the issues any better as a result of what‘s been expressed you can stay up—to—date throughout the day with bbc news breaking down the day with bbc news breaking down the jargon on brexit. you can use the jargon on brexit. you can use the jargon on brexit. you can use

the jargon busting guide to check the jargon busting guide to check the most used terms and phrases. check that out online. the bbc news app. thank you for your company today. i will be here same time tomorrow. have a great afternoon. goodbye. hello, good morning. still rather cold out there are across many parts of the uk. someone three showers affecting the far south—east of england. continuing to clear away. going to stay quite chilly across the east with sunny spells. further west the cloud increasing, patchy rain across west wales, the of england, patchy rain moving the west of scotland. changing conditions as temperatures rise, 8—9d this afternoon. tonight continuing with patchy rain across scotland,

north—west england, wales, you notice through the night temperatures rising as warren and mild air moves from the west. there could be the odd chilly slot across eastern areas. temperatures between 2-3d. 10 eastern areas. temperatures between 2—3d. 10 degrees first thing on friday morning in northern ireland. throughout friday all of us will have a mild today, temperatures 10-12d, have a mild today, temperatures 10—12d, different country to recent days. lots of cloud on friday, some spots of rain here and there. goodbye. you‘re watching bbc newsroom live — it‘s 11am. and these are the main stories this morning: scotland‘s former first minister alex salmond has been arrested and charged by police.

he‘s expected in court later today. the family of a woman who died in a speedboat crash on the thames say the man convicted of her manslaughter, jack shepherd, is not taking responsibility responsibility for his actions despite his arrest in georgia. as we saw, and increasing feelings of anger to be honest with you. to see him just stroll into the police station smiling and waving, was just unbelievable. "as big a threat as climate change" — the health secretary announces a five—year plan to tackle antibiotic resistance.