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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  February 4, 2019 12:30am-1:01am GMT

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our top story. underwater search teams have found the wreckage of the plane which was lost 13 days ago carrying premier league footballer emiliano sala to the uk. his family have been informed. the plane carrying the 28—year—old and his pilot disappeared over the english channel. the privately—funded search of the seabed was launched after the official operation was called off. thousands of residents in the australian city of townsville have been warned of unprecedented flooding as monsoon rains continue. and this video is trending on bbc.com. these two figures on the streets of hong kong had people stopping for photos. it may look like president duterte of the philippines and north korea's kim jong—un walking together, but, on closer inspection, the pair are in fact a couple of impersonators. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now it's time for hardtalk.
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carl hiaasen, welcome to hardtalk. hgppy carl hiaasen, welcome to hardtalk. happy to have me on, thank you. here we sit in florida, the state you we re we sit in florida, the state you were born in, racing, have worked in all your life, and you are still here. what keeps you, in this state that you confess is crazy? um... i think it is where my family is from, i think one of the things about writers as you have to care about what you write about, and is messed up what you write about, and is messed up as this state use, it is absolutely screwed up and insane, i still care about it. my family is here. either that i am just too lazy to leave. i will also say there are weeks when you see the stream of headlines that come out of florida
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where even a diehard floridians service, there has got to be some place that had to live, less crazy. i have those weeks where ijust go, what am i doing here? take me back to your childhood, because you have portrayed it as a state that was very different. and we are going back to the 1950s and early 1960s, when you are a kid growing up. it seems like you felt about it in a very different way. i did, but when i was very different way. i did, but when iwasa very different way. i did, but when i was a kid, we grew up in western fort lauderdale, and really, the geographic edge of the florida everglades. there were no malls, no interstates. we would get on our bikes after school and we would ride out with our fishing rods. it was like a tom sawyer sort of existence. we collected snakes and wild animals, brought them home, let them loose in the house, terrified my mother. that was the childhood that ihad. mother. that was the childhood that i had. all of it was spent outdoors,
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really. was one of the motivations for you to get into journalism, and for you to get into journalism, and for a while it was investigative journalism, was it to try to explain to yourself and to fellow floridians what is happening?” to yourself and to fellow floridians what is happening? i think a loss of that was anger, in the sense that every time i went home from school, i went home to visit my folks, there would be something else that had disappeared. —— a lot of it was angen disappeared. —— a lot of it was anger. some memory that i had as a child had disappeared. and it was happening in a way that was inevitably corrupt. it couldn't happen ina inevitably corrupt. it couldn't happen in a sane, orderly civilisation. it was just whoever had the money got what they wanted and could build what they wanted. so i went intojournalism and could build what they wanted. so i went into journalism first of all because it was a way to carry on a fight for truth. not necessarily taking a position, because you don't. but when you know people are lying, you know they are taking money, you know that the effect of that impacts the quality of life for future generations, it becomes an
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altruistic thing, because you don't go into thejournalism altruistic thing, because you don't go into the journalism for the money. dear god, even i knew that. you go into it because you believe in that fight. i mean, i remember being very young and seeing rings happening, seeing places start to disappear, places i would ride my bike to, all of a sudden there were fences and condos going up, and i was kissed. the satire that i wrote later, as a novelist, i think it is one of the great weapons, anger. that is what really intrigues me, because i guess in your late 20s and your 30s you flipped, in a way. you area your 30s you flipped, in a way. you are a guy who was devoted to finding stuff out, fact—finding, and then it seems you decided that actually you could deliver more truth, in a way, by not being restricted by the straightforward facts, and choosing stuff u p straightforward facts, and choosing stuff up with fiction. i mean, i had the luxury of being able to live
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this double life where i still worked for the herald, i had been on the investigative team for years, then i started doing a column, which is somewhat liberating because you get paid for your opinion, good or bad. but i still had my foot firmly in the newsroom, but at night, i had these novels is psychotherapy, because at night, you know, i would go home at night and work on the novels. what do you mean by psychotherapy? well, because in the context of newspaper work, you cannot write your own endings. and i covered too many stories. i am talking about crime, politics, you know, homicides, the gun violence. i covered too many stories, where there was not a good ending, not a happy ending. that is journalism. the axiom is, they don't send you to the airport if the plane land safely. that is how you get conditions. to me, i can go home and work on a novel and i knew at the end of this novel, as bizarre and
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twisted, you know, warped as it might be, at the end, the good guys would be standing in something, and something horrible and poetic is going to happen to the bad guys. the bad guys get it and the good guys triumph. in the course of that, the journey in your novels, an awful lot of horrible stuff happens. yeah. and overall, the overall view of humanity you present is pretty dark. and bleak. and most folks are on the take. they usually live. they do bad stuff. in all sorts of different arenas, from sexual to business to politics. it is a dystopian view, in a way, of mankind. it might be for people who don't live here, but for people who don't live here, but for people who don't live here, but for people who live here, they have a lwa ys people who live here, they have always looked at the novels of sort of documentaries. there is hardly
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anything that is in my novels that either hasn't happened or won't happen eventually. and that is the scary part, that some of the things that people accuse me of a sane, that people accuse me of a sane, thatis that people accuse me of a sane, that is the sickest thing i have ever read, i can pull out a newspaper clipping say, really? this is it came from. you could have been a politician. you are rooted in this floridians culture. you could have run for office, whether it be at state level or something more. that you never did. never did, i would have no chance of winning and no chance of lasting an office because you have to do the dance. you have to compromise, you have to appeal to all factions, you have to be diplomatic, and i'm none of those things. i would diplomatic, and i'm none of those things. iwould never even diplomatic, and i'm none of those things. i would never even imagine it because i am not psychologically suited for politics. you have to know your limitations. let's talk about the one politician today who dominates all talk of politics in the united states, an man who in many ways appears more unbelievable than any fictional character of a
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good, but he is very real, and he sits in the white house. donald trump. this is what you wrote of donald trump, or at least it was the headline of a column he wrote about donald trump in march 2015. i'm not going to spend your embarrassment. it began, there will never be a president trump. absolutely, i love that column. i wasn't alone. i didn't think it was possible. you mentioned satire, i thought this would defy satire, if this grand got elected. yet he did, so i was dead wrong. i've been wrong a lot. i also did not think barack 0bama could get elected, because in my lifetime, when i grew up, there were segregated beaches and restrooms. the idea of an african—american in the white house seemed inconceivable to me. so what does it say about a country which can elect barack 0bama and then, in the very next election, come up with donald trump? and then, in the very next election, come up with donald trump7m and then, in the very next election, come up with donald trump? it is so intriguing. it shows what the capacity for hope is, and it shows what the capacity for rutter cynicism is. on both sides. i
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think... no, iabsolutely cynicism is. on both sides. i think... no, i absolutely didn't think... no, i absolutely didn't think trump could ever become president, and since he has been elected he has been a nightmare for the country but a gift to every comedy writer and newspaper columnists, because... has he really been a gift? 0r columnists, because... has he really been a gift? or has he actually, in a funny sort of way, defused the power of satire? because as you just said to me, in a sense, satire has no role to play when donald trump does things which... i think in terms of novels, and creating a sort of tom wolf landscape, it is more difficult, because of trump. at in terms of newspaper work and newspaper columns, 750 words, i think you can still have plenty of fun. ido think you can still have plenty of fun. i do not think he has killed satire. because in this country, stephen colbert shows, he is the top rated lake —— late—night talk show, all he does is monologue or trouble
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the time, and is the most popular show in that timeslot in the country. there is a humourous in the uk called john 0'farrell, who has very publicly worried out loud about satire in the age of donald trump, saying, ina satire in the age of donald trump, saying, in a way, it isjust satire in the age of donald trump, saying, in a way, it is just too easy to subside into laughter and satire and mockery. and in many ways we need to be truly angry. and it goes back to what we were discussing earlier about the balance within you banged around the desire to entertain and find humour. sometimes, is it important to focus on the anger? every -- every funny, my right comes from anger, every single one. every satirical novel comes from an upper limb of anger. defusing it with the laughter, and the smile? yeah, but it is different if people are getting the joke. you are not defusing it, you are getting the fire —— feeding the fire. there isa the fire —— feeding the fire. there is a difference between slapstick
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and the difference between a satirical line with a fine agenda point. if you get people laughing for the right reasons you get them thinking about the right things. i've spoken in the recent past about the editors of both the new york times and washington post and they both say that they are fearful of the atmosphere that they see in the art today. they are fearful for the security of their own staff. and they are at the top of the master of their newspapers. you want the other hand are the name that so many people associate with your newspaper, the miami herald. ijust wonder, in the current climate... that's what's different. with your views, and the power of the opposition that you get from people who think donald trump is doing great things for america, do you ever consider your own safety and security? that's what's different now, than what it was during nixon and newt gingrich. the difference now is the idea of physical threat, the idea of assassination of, which
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the idea of assassination of, which the rest of the world has been dealing with forever, and it is happening even today, which we have never had in america. we do have it now. and... do you ever think about it? i do since june 28 last year, when my brother was killed. it? i do since june 28 last year, when my brother was killedlj it? i do since june 28 last year, when my brother was killed. i was going to raise that in a moment, but you've brought it up right now. we sit here less than a year after you experienced the most extraordinary tragedy, because your brother, who was six years younger than yourself, he was also a newspaperman, and a columnist on a small paper. the annapolis gazette. but he had worked for the baltimore sometime in the washington post. yes. but he had gone out to annapolis, to an editorialjob. yeah. and he was in his office when a guy with a gun walked in, long—term grudge against
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that newspaper, for reasons which are complicated and the trial hasn't even started yet, so we have to refer to him as a suspect rather than a convicted criminal, anyway, he opens fire, kills five people. yes. including your brother. who was just there trying to put out a neighbourhood newspaper, a community newspaper, yeah. at a time when the debate and the anger towards journalists is quite visible at trump rallies, and almost, you know, the threats of violence, and there had been threats against other papers and other journalists, had been threats against other papers and otherjournalists, we don't know what motivated this guy. i don't know what is on his computer, the police haven't said, or if he was on these websites. but he had threatened the paper before. you know, the irony was that nobody working in that newsroom had anything to do with this story that he was angry about, that had appeared so many years ago, which
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was basically a police story where he had pleaded guilty to a crime. and a reporter had done a column about his victim. every word in both those pieces was true, but he held a grudge. he sued for libel, he got thrown out of every court. it was the last thing anybody expected. i don't know what was the trigger, at what point did he feel comfortable doing that, comfortable or at least, what pushed him to that point. we may never know. at the fact is he killed five people, shot a couple of others, and my brother was one of those who died, and it was the last thing i would have expected. and so at that point... i am trying to imagine what it must have been like for you, because you had for a long time written powerful columns about the dysfunctional relationship in the dysfunctional relationship in the united states between guns and the united states between guns and the people. and the nra in particular, yeah. and you had called for meaningful gun control. you had railed against the powerful of —— the power of the nra in this
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country. and then, a guess you never expect it is going to come so close to home. i don't think anyone does. as bad as i thought it was, before this happened, i know now that it is much worse. in relation to the threat to reporters and the media, yeah, ithink threat to reporters and the media, yeah, i think this is the first time we re yeah, i think this is the first time were that has been out there, where you have people chanting at rallies. the poll numbers, the press has never been at the top of the popularity list. since the beginning of this republic, it has never been a cherished institution, especially in the heat of political years. people will always say they are suspicious, people are always relu cta nt to suspicious, people are always reluctant to believe something they don't want to believe about their candidate. they are always sceptical, cynical, and in some cases they just turn a sceptical, cynical, and in some cases theyjust turn a blind eye to corruption. but to habitat in the open, where you have people on websites advocating murder of journalist, which you do, and which
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they did before my brother was killed, that is new. when you say it is new, are you in any sense tempted to blame donald trump for the creation of this atmosphere? i think that it hasn't helped. i mean, to have someone who everytime there's a negative article, despite... even in the wall streetjournal, which article, despite... even in the wall street journal, which his article, despite... even in the wall streetjournal, which his friend owns, just call it fake news, because... and there is this loan, the enemies of the people, the idea that journalist can the enemies of the people, the idea thatjournalist can be the enemy. well, that's absurd, and the media, the press, whether it's... whether you get your news online or you get it from an old—fashioned newspaper on your doorstep, they are going to survive donald trump. they will survive donald trump. they will survive and they will endure past donald trump. but we have seen the big institutions, such as you mentioned, the new york times, the washington post, the wall street journal, have all become more robust, more popular, being read by
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more people than have ever read those papers. now, partly because of the fuss he's making about it. but on the issue of guns, whether it be the big newspapers, whether it be powerful voices such as your own, and you wrote a column about this just a few days ago, the fact is that for all of the mass shootings, and you know, there's no point reading the list of everybody knows that even here in florida there have been a host of mass shootings. and yet not one of these incidents, for all of the grief, the players that are offered, produces a blind bit of political difference. no. on the issue of gun control. we have the former governor actually put... rose up former governor actually put... rose up against the an array after the marjorie stoneman douglas shooting and they raised the age limit for purchase, i think, and they raised the age limit for purchase, ithink, of and they raised the age limit for purchase, i think, of semiautomatic rifles, and i believe put in... they might have a waiting period. there was a couple of laws passed that the nra had opposed that it was the first time in many, many years... at
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the state—level. first time in many, many years... at the state-level. at the state level, yes. but here is how the spirit, my brother and i didn't even talk about this, because we had kids, and after sandy hook, after all those elementary schools... more than 20 children, young children. slaughter, we both had talked and said if that doesn't do it, if that doesn't bring this country to a new political reality about guns, then nothing's going to do it. and what happened after sandy hook? nothing. nothing substantive. nothing at the federal level of a ny substantive. nothing at the federal level of any substance at all. so am i surprised? no. let me ask you about the impact on you and your journalism. because it seems to me you have always written from the heart, and we have discussed the level of anger, but you have never made a deeply personal. you don't write much about family, about those dearest and nearest to you. no. and interesting you said, you know what? rob beard, rob was more open, more
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personal. yes, he loved that, buti didn't. and yet in a sense, now that this has come home to you, do you feel... i don't know whether a duty orfreedom to feel... i don't know whether a duty or freedom to write more personally? you know, because you wrote a column which i did read a few weeks after rob was killed at about... you said the pain never ebbs, the tears never dry. that was the most personal thing of ever written. was it? oh, yes. 0h, thing of ever written. was it? oh, yes. oh, yes. here is one reason i haven't. because as you said, my background is more as an investigative journalist and you are trained to keep yourself out of it. and of course, when i started doing the column, they wanted... you know, i have thrown myself into it emotionally and with my point of view politically, but i don't... you hardly ever mention family. part of it is because i think you should be able to make your case without that emotional tug. but second of all, because the nature of what i had
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donein because the nature of what i had done in the herald, and even who i was writing about, you have to remember what miami in the 1970s and 19805 remember what miami in the 1970s and 1980s was, and the drug violence, andi 1980s was, and the drug violence, and i was writing about the cocaine wa ltz , and i was writing about the cocaine waltz, i was writing about individuals involved, and escobar, and others, and i was frequently writing about corrupt politicians. i was making enemies. you sure work, dangerous enemies. and when the column started, i made more. because the only way to do it is honestly, and so if somebody got caught doing something i would write about them. and you know, most of the time, by the time i read about them they had much bigger problems than some newspaper columnist writing about them. they had much bigger legal problems. but at the same time, in the back of your mind, i am thinking all it takes is one person who is mad enough and there's enough guns on the street, even in those days in miami there were plenty, so i was a lwa ys miami there were plenty, so i was always cautious that i would be the
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target, and not giving away where my kids were at school, where my wife worked at the time, any of that. i was very worked at the time, any of that. i was very cognisa nt worked at the time, any of that. i was very cognisant of that. not about being paranoid, i am just being careful. has this changed anything, from that point of view? no, i still... i still... anything, from that point of view? no, istill... istill... i don't... no, istill... istill... i don't... no, istill... istill... i don't... no, ican no, istill... istill... i don't... no, i can still do myjob without writing about personal things, i think. in this case, rob's death was something extraordinary, and it was on every network, and his face was on every network, and his face was on every network, and his face was on every news station, and he wasn't there to, you know, be protected any more. but there are people in my family that, you no, were scared, are scared, and... for you? ithink for all of us. you know, just...
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it's a tough world, and it's a tough reality to face. i don't think they are that worried about me, but i have always been... it's not worth it, it's not worth the risk. has any of this made you question whether you want to carry on? good question. i think, you want to carry on? good question. ithink, in you want to carry on? good question. i think, in a few weeks after he was killed, i wondered. i think, in a few weeks after he was killed, iwondered. i i think, in a few weeks after he was killed, i wondered. i wondered, because i saw the pain in my own... everyone else in the family was going through. and i did wonder whether. .. you know, going through. and i did wonder whether... you know, i had a good, long run. i have been with that newspaper for over a0 years, and long run. i have been with that newspaperfor over a0 years, and i would have... there would be nothing to be ashamed of the walk away and to be ashamed of the walk away and to just to be ashamed of the walk away and tojust go off, to be ashamed of the walk away and to just go off, you to be ashamed of the walk away and tojust go off, you know, live on to be ashamed of the walk away and to just go off, you know, live on an island and write my books. there would be nothing to stop me from doing that, and i wouldn't feel ashamed, but i would feel left out with what is going on in this country now, not to have the privilege of having a voice that i have, and the ability of the platform that i have, i should say,
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to lose that, at a time when this country is in the kind of trouble that it country is in the kind of trouble thatitis country is in the kind of trouble that it is in, i would feel, like, left out and like i was cheating. taking the easy way out. we began by talking about your commitment to this place, and yet having had the conversation we had, i'm wondering whether you, in recent times, have seriously thought about getting out of florida? there are days when i... something happens where i think enough is enough, and it's too late to save the place. and the one thing i have compared it to, stephen, if you understand, it is almost like you understand, it is almost like you are sitting with a relative in the hospital, and they are fading away, and do you wait or do you leave early, do you bug out? and i am not going to bug out. as long as they are fighting, as long as people are fighting, yes, i will stay. they are fighting, as long as people are fighting, yes, iwill stay. my heart isn't anywhere else, and
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secondly i have not lived anywhere else that i can write about with authority or with the kind of affection and with the sort of bittersweet side as well, the anger as well, i never cared about a place as well, i never cared about a place as much as i cared about this. and for the purposes of my crazy novels and for the newspaper work, i think you need that kind of energy, and you need that kind of energy, and you need that kind of emotional investment. so i can't see myself leaving. that is a great place to end. 0ne, thank you very much. leaving. that is a great place to end. one, thank you very much. thank you, thanks to having me. it was really a pleasure. thanks. hello. after the coldest, snowiest week of the winter so far, there was only a gradual thaw over the weekend, but that is going to pick up
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pace in the coming days. but this is going to be disappearing away from the high hills and mountains, as temperatures are heading up across the uk. but monday still starting on a chilly note across northern scotland, where there's some snow around. several centimetres into the hills here, above 150 metres or so, but a bit to even lower levels than that. it could be icy in places around this area of low pressure, which has also pushed this band of rain east across the uk through the night, though lingering for a time in the morning, particularly across east anglia and south—east england. so the snowfall in northern scotland could be causing a few problems as the day begins. that's slowly going to fizzle during the day. it's quite windy for a time in scotland, as well. the rain pulls away from the south—east. it's going to drag its heels, certainly in kent. a lot of cloud behind this weather system, so we're not going to see much in the way of sunshine for east anglia and south—east england. elsewhere, though, some sunny spells, one or two showers around, and already temperatures
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are going up, and towards parts of wales and south—west england, in particular, as high as 12 celsius. but, with the wind easing further under clear skies, there's another frost on the way on monday night and into tuesday morning. now, there could well be some fog developing, particularly through parts of monday evening, which could be quite dense as tuesday begins. so here the temperature may not fall too far. but elsewhere, yes, there is that widespread frost, and we haven't had one of those for a while. so a frosty and in places foggy start to tuesday, but some sunshine around, before the next atlantic system start to feed in the cloud and outbreaks of rain moving north—east during the day, with a freshening south—westerly wind. it will be, the further north—east you are, you'll hold onto the drier, sunny conditions for longest on tuesday. so we will see outbreaks of rain spreading further east on tuesday night, and into wednesday, most of that clears. but this weather front mayjust linger close to parts of east anglia and south—east england. still something to play for in the detail, but if it does, expect further outbreaks of rain.
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a few days to come of sunshine and showers on a brisk breeze, but you'll notice the temperatures. they are at or even above normal for the time of year. and that is the big weather change for this week. it's the feel of the weather. as temperatures recover, it'll be much milder. still unsettled, with low pressure close by, so some rain at times, not all the time. there'll be some sunshine occasionally, too. 0ften windy, but mild south—westerlies. she i'm sharanjit leyl in singapore. the headlines: the wreckage of the plane carrying premier league footballer emiliano sala is found by search teams. warnings of unprecedented flooding for northern australia, where more than a metre of rain has fallen in just one week. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: the car maker nissan reverses its plan to build its latest model in england. it'll keep production
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injapan instead.
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