hello, it's thursday, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. good morning. new official advice on how your children should use screens has been issued by the uk's four chief medical officers for the first time. follow this advice of getting your children to have good sleep, eat properly, get exercise, be safe, have family time, share sensibly, then they will be all right, however the evidence base develops. but the advice stops short of telling parents how much is too much screentime. we've brought together teenagers, parents, experts, politicians and social media influencers to talk about the effect our devices are having on us. iam i am elizabeth, m, iam elizabeth, m, i i am elizabeth, m, i use i am elizabeth, 14, i use my phone every night. but i think that the advice to put my phone down before i go to bed is a good idea. my name is emily, i go to bed is a good idea. my name is emily, lam go to bed is a good idea. my name is emily, i am a social media influencer, and it is easy for my followers to think that my life is perfect, but behind the scenes, i

have always struggled with mental health issues. i am viktoria, i am missing in 2018, 2019 and instagram led me into a downward spiral of self— harm. does your teenager have their phone in the bedroom? how worried are you about them accessing disturbing content? let us know today. it comes on the day the health secretary, matt hancock, is to meet the head of instagram to talk about what social media companies should be doing to stop young people viewing images of suicide and self harm. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. use the hashtag victoria live. send us an email. we're going to talk about all this with teenagers, parents, tech experts, medical experts and politicians — after the news, with annita mcveigh. thanks. good morning.

with exactly 50 days until brexit, theresa may is in brussels to try to resolve the dispute over the future of the irish border. the eu has so far refused to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement, and the renewed talks come amid anger over inflammatory comments made by european council president donald tusk. he said there would be a "special place in hell for the politicians who promoted leaving the eu, without having a plan." air accident investigators have recovered a body from the wreckage of the plane carrying the footballer emiliano sala and his pilot, david ibbotson. the light aircraft was found on the seabed in the english channel near guernsey on sunday, two weeks after it disappeared on a flight from france to cardiff. the body has not yet been identified. the uk's four chief medical officers have issued their first advice on the use of screens and social media by children and young people. they're urging parents to leave their children's phones outside the bedroom at night and to ban the devices at meal times. they says phone usage should not

intrude on exercise, quality sleep and interaction with parents. energy companies have been given the go—ahead to increase gas and electricity prices for customers on standard variable rates. the energy regulator, ofgem, raised the price cap by more than 10% because the wholesale cost of gas and electricity has gone up. the average bill for customers on standard variable gas and electricity rates could increase by more than £100 a year. a 24—year—old man has been arrested in connection with the disappearance of a student from hull. 21—year—old libby squire was last seen on cctv near her home in the early hours of friday morning. her parents, lisa and russ, have thanked everyone involved in an extensive search, saying they have been "overwhelmed with people's kindness and support". a british man — who is going to end his life later today at an assisted suicide organisation in switzerland — is calling for a change in the law to stop relatives of people like him from facing prosecution if they help

with any arrangements. 80—year—old geoff whaley has motor neurone disease and says his wife, ann, was interviewed under caution by police, following an anonymous tip—off. fife council has become the latest authority in scotland to announce it will compensate families affected by the baby ashes scandal. payments of up to £4,000 will be made to parents who were told there were no ashes from their infants' cremations when, in fact, they had been disposed as waste. 0ther councils — including edinburgh, aberdeen and glasgow — have already agreed compensation. all british race meetings have been cancelled today, after an outbreak of equine flu. three vaccinated horses in an active yard have tested positive for the disease, and some horses from the same yard raced yesterday — potentially exposing a significant number of other animals.

the incubation period is usually days, but recovery can take weeks, or even months. that's a summary of the bbc news. back now to victoria. thanks. good morning. this morning, we're going to talk about your children and their mobiles phones — because, for the first time, official guidance on social media and screen time has been issued by the uk's four chief medical officers today. over the next 60 minutes, we'll let you know what the new advice is, ask you what you think about it and talk about it in the studio with all these lovely people — teenagers, parents, experts. and politicians. we'll hear from a technology firm too and ask if the government shold bring in new laws to better protect young and vulnerable people. all this comes after the death of molly russell, who was just 1a when she took her own life. after she died in 2017, her family found distressing material on her social media.

her father, ian, spoke to the bbc‘s angus crawford about it two weeks ago. molly was the youngest of three sisters. at the time, she seems to bea sisters. at the time, she seems to be a very ordinary teenager. she was 14. be a very ordinary teenager. she was 1a. she was enthusiastic. she handed her homework in that night. she packed her bags and was preparing to go to school the next day. and then when we woke up the next morning, she was dead. since her death, we have been able to look back and just scratch the surface of some of the social media accounts. some of that content seems to be quite positive. perhaps groups of people who are trying to help each other out. but some of that content shocking in that it encourages self—harm. it links self—harm to suicide. and i

have no doubt that instagram helped kill my daughter. instagram says it removes any content which glorifes suicide or self—harm, but demands for a better way to control what young people are exposed to are intensifying. the government claims harmful online content "has the effect of grooming people" to kill themselves. figures show around 200 british schoolchildren take their own lives each year — it's one of the leading causes of death for young people. today, the health secretary, matt hancock, is preparing to meet with the worldwide head of instagram to discuss images of self—harm and suicide on the platform. he took to twitter earlier to say he was looking forward to discussing "much—needed action to protect children's mental health". we will be talking about those difficult subjects today. if you're affected, you can find organisations that may be able to help you at bbc.co.uk/actionline. or by calling 0800 066 066.

i will keep repeating those details in the programme. let's speak now to emma and chelsea oliver — mum and sister of daniel long, who took his own life after researching suicide online. also with us, viktoria venkatess, who has in the past self—harmed after seeing images of self—harm on social media. alisha cowie, current miss england, who has had anorexia and says instagram drove her to self—harm. welcome, all of you. viktoria can you ended up cutting yourself because of, you say, what you across on social media, tell our audience about that. it was so easy to find, i don't remember how i came across it but i definitely wasn't looking for it. i was 11 and had never heard of self—harm and i came across it and saw all these people feeling the

same way that i did and they were using it as a way to cope so itjust seemed like a good idea at the time. so, did you see visual images of people self harming, or did you see descriptions? it was both, descriptions? it was both, descriptions and very graphic images of self—harm. descriptions and very graphic images of self-harm. and are you saying that encouraged you lead you to cut yourself? yes, it definitely encourage me. those feelings where there before, but it was, that made me even more prone to being by those images and it felt like the only way to cope because so many other people we re to cope because so many other people were doing it at the time. alisha, you are looking at fitness accounts and instagram. what kind of things came up? i was very into fitness, i was on sports teams. quite athletic. ijust wanted was on sports teams. quite athletic. i just wanted to was on sports teams. quite athletic. ijust wanted to tone up. but it suggested a post for weight loss and icame suggested a post for weight loss and i came across this post where a girl had lost an incredible amount of weight. and in the caption was a

hashtag which i clicked on to see what it was about and that led me to images of self—harm. and what happened after that? so, the same really. it was very poetic. it was made to sound very beautiful and as if you had control over the situation if you started to self— harm. so i situation if you started to self—harm. so i took that into my own hands to see if it would work and it became a destructive habit i couldn't stop. and when you both look back now about what you did and what you felt led you to do that, what you felt led you to do that, what do you think? i think it is really awful, especially how easy it is to come across and how common it is to come across and how common it is online, especially with young mind and how easy that can be shaped and influenced, there definitely needs to be better controlled. and influenced, there definitely needs to be better controlledlj agree. needs to be better controlled.” agree. i was vulnerable at 13, i didn't know i was ill so seeing images like that, i didn't know that i was sick, i didn't know i was poorly and it just led i was sick, i didn't know i was poorly and itjust led me into believing that this was the right thing to do. let me bring in emma

and chelsea, mother and sister of daniel who took his own life after researching suicide online, what did you discover after his death? disturbing graphics. step-by-step pictures of how to do it. there was a forum you can access. basically, it was people that could login and set upa it was people that could login and set up a user and they could talk in between to each other and get advice on how to do it properly. what do you think of the stuff you realised daniel was looking at? they shouldn't be on the internet, there is no reason for that to be on the internet. why would you have that on there? it is just, internet. why would you have that on there? it isjust, there is no need for it to be on media site. and he of he didn't know what to do either. he didn't know what to do. so he has come for that advice and because of that advice, he has known what to

do. in 2017, daniel died in 2017 and 226 schoolchildren took their own life, daniel was one of them and i can guarantee most of them went on social media to find out how to do it. a google spokesperson told us... we show the samaritans 24—hour helpline number to help people who are depressed, suicidal or distressed with the advice they need and we urge anyone in this position to use the number. that is on. but do children know what that is? and they are in that frame of mind already so they will not pick up mind already so they will not pick up the phone and contact some stranger. daniel was 15, i up the phone and contact some stranger. danielwas15, i don't know whether he would know what the samaritans was. if you put that on the internet, that is not the first thing you see. the first thing you see is what you have put in. you

don't see that number. why can't google remove it altogether? there is no point having a number at the top and having a step—by—step at the bottom, what is the point in that? it is useless to me. who else has seen it is useless to me. who else has seen disturbing content on social media? recently on instagram, i found, a yearand media? recently on instagram, i found, a year and a half ago, i saw a really kind of disturbing video of someone, an account a really kind of disturbing video of someone, an account i had never seen before, literally in my entire existence on instagram. and there was not... there was a blown up figure and a man had a gun and he was shooting it. and it had no sound, i don't know if the gun was real, if it was planned, if it was a joke or some sort of morbid humour. but it just appeared joke or some sort of morbid humour. but itjust appeared on the explore page of instagram. i have never liked anything seen that account in my life, it just appeared

liked anything seen that account in my life, itjust appeared and it was really kind of shocking to see it. i blocked the person and ripple account, but still seeing that after instagram recommended that, it was a massive drawback —— and i reported that account. to think, what else is on there? anyone else? also, my friend, well, i didn't witness it. there was a stabbing of a friend that i knew. and somebody sent it to me and instagram a couple of months ago. a video. yes, a video of him getting stabbed. it was really distressing for me because i was close to him, i knew him. my emotions were, angry, sad. iwas angry because i want to know who did it and why did they do it? sad because i didn't want to get involved in the video and i didn't wa nt involved in the video and i didn't want to get involved, i didn't want to do anything with it. what do

people think about the kind of access people think about the kind of a ccess — — people think about the kind of access —— content that can be accessed online? i am coming from a different angle. i am director of terror —— 54 and today is our time to talk day and we work with a lot of young people and adults who have personal experience to use that to challenge discrimination. young people we took to say they use the internet is a connectivity and being able to have a platform that is supported. so definitely our research out today for time to talk date, we often use social media at a surface level and today we are calling on everyone to make more meaningful conversation about maine —— mental health so we can be aware it. one in ten young people will experience a mental health problem.

do you think accessing content online can contribute to mental health issues? it is a mix of both. if you are susceptible and it is probably the case with daniel, if you go searching for that, clearly, that will be a contributory factor. and we absolutely would say we want that to be controlled. there is no place really for disturbing step— by—step place really for disturbing step—by—step guides to be on the internet, of course not. who else thinks there is a link between some of the disturbing content you can see on social media and online and the effect it has on your mental health? introduce yourself. my name is alex. i think the evidence and recommendations are clear, we cannot link those things. we cannot say that social media is harmful and causes those behaviours. i really wa nt pa re nts causes those behaviours. i really want parents watching this do not worry and to think about looking at their child's mental health, their

sleep, their health. looking at those and then considering if technology might have a part to play in it. because the majority of young people read very safe and happy lives online. it is... there are far bigger problems, according to our research, in schools than online and those two are very closely linked. the nature of the conversation today is we will be talking a lot about the negative side of social media and the negative side of online activity. but of course, we all know it can be a force for good and the chief medical officers have acknowledged that today. go ahead, emily. i have had an up—and—down relationship with social media. in some ways, it has enabled me to connect with so many people that are like—minded and build a community, but on the flip side, i have really struggled with comparing myself to other people. it has really affected my sense of self and myself esteem. they look like they are having a great time? yes, it is that compare

and despair thing. not even that they are having that experience, it just seems that way. the content might not even be distressing, it is just everybody seems they are living their best life and meanwhile, you are experiencing anxiety, depression, struggling with your own sense of identity. can you notjust put the phone down? this is the problem, i would say that my relationship with social media has become much healthier because i have started to practise keeping an eye on my screen started to practise keeping an eye on my screen time, making sure i am being mindful is not comparing myself to other people, and also that i am regulating what is coming up that i am regulating what is coming up on my feed like you are saying. if you block and report accounts, promoting damaging content, you are making a change and making social media safer for everybody.” making a change and making social media safer for everybody. i am the chair of the parliamentary select committee on technology, we produced a report last week and the chief medical officer today has reinforced what we were saying that we do need

more evidence of this possible link between what you see online and poor mental health. but i think it is right to take a precautionary approach. we surely have a duty to protect children. the sort of example you gave of that posting directed towards you as a child, that should not be happening. that is why as a committee, we have called for a legal duty of care to protect children from harm online. i think the other thing the chief medical officer made clear today, which i think is another aspect of this, she highlighted the fact that many children are concerned about their parents using their phones in front of them and that they need to also remember that when they are with children, they need to interact with children, they need to interact with children, they need to interact with children, rather than just being in front of the screen. yes. we are talking about children'suse a mobile phones parents and parents and what we access on those devices because for the first the uk's chief

medical officers have published their advice on social media and screen use. those top doctors acknowledge time spent online can be of great benefit, providing opportunities for learning and skills development, as well as allowing people to find support and information. but parents are being given several steps, which they say will help keep children safe and healthy. these include: not using phones and mobile devices at the dinner table — because talking as a family is important for development. keeping screens out of the bedroom at bedtime. talking as a family about keeping safe online and about cyber—bullying, and what children should do if they are worried. and making sure children take a break from screens every two hours by getting up and being active. the advice stops short, though, of something the health secretary said he wanted — a limit for the amount of time kids should be looking at their screens. i want to ask our students here from st matthew academy in south east

london, which of you is allowed to have a phone in your bedroom at night? i am. me, too. we were all allowed ? night? i am. me, too. we were all allowed? no? 0k. how often do you useit? allowed? no? 0k. how often do you use it? until i have to go to sleep. then i either hand it in or i leave it by my bedside for my alarm. yes, in the morning, i don't look at it. usually, afternoon. i use it for three hours and i go out to youth clu bs three hours and i go out to youth clubs and stuff to get activities and stuff. but on the weekends, that isa and stuff. but on the weekends, that is a different story. i spend maybe all day on it because i have nothing better to do. on a saturday and sunday. eight, ten hours? six. could you be messaging in the middle of the night. no. notifications and messages? i don't get notifications

and messages. my phone is on silent. i don't need to be told, me and my mum, she knows i will not go by phone from the minute i lay down to the moment i wake up. what were your pa rents the moment i wake up. what were your parents think now the chief medical officers have said, please don't let your kids have phones in the bedrooms when they go to bed?” think that the trust is still there, definitely. you think your mum still is going to let you have your phone in your room? phone in a room, yes. my phone right next to me right near me, probably not. more or less on a table or somewhere not necessarily close to me. what about you, ricardo? i think the trust is still there. but i agree with molly. my mum when she comes into the room and she sees me texting my phone, she will take it. but i respect my mum's orders and a —most times read my phone far away from me in my

bedroom. sophie says, i am shocked at the lack of parenting. not talking about your parents, by the way! while everyone else lets their kids have phones under their pillows we will let it go, anything for an easy life. the amount of kids that have brand—new iphones in years five and six, utter madness! this says, social media is placing young minds, believe me, there is nasty stuff on there, violence, sexual items, bad music videos and lots more. they can't monitor everything and parents won't know what their kids are seeing and they don't tell their pa rents. seeing and they don't tell their parents. mick on twitter says, there is nothing but a keyboard and screen can do to you, just the same as bad books are not harmful. damage is donein books are not harmful. damage is done in families and schools which neglect children'smines. on that subject of whopping children'sminds, max davey is a development —— developmental paediatrician. what is

your view? i have been interested in seeing what molly and her colleagues are talking about. it is about a balanced, making sure the other things you need to do, especially sleeping and spending time as a family, exercising, they are fitted around screens. so screens are not dominating life and life is determining how much screen time you can have. i think most advice is extremely sensible. i do think children shouldn't have their phones in the bedroom as a general rule because there is evidence from the us about 75% of adolescents will check their phones overnight. sometimes they might not even realise they have done it. i do think it is a good rule but, again, iam not think it is a good rule but, again, i am not going to molly's house to check she is doing it, it is about trust and meaningful conversations and keeping those things, those flows of conversations open.”

and keeping those things, those flows of conversations open. i am alastair and from a company that makes educational films to help out with tricky subjects like this. recently, i did a film called me myselfie and i. it is less about the content on it and just the addiction levels, talking about taking breaks. it has become a habit like smoking or gambling. anything like that does need to have regulation, essentially. but like you say, you cannot monitor everything. it really is ultimately about an open dialogue. that is what our film hopes to do, to encourage people, a lot of people feel this pressure to perform online and sometimes that online persona can take over. you may feel your behaviour changing. i guess it is educating parents to spot that. and also, like we say, to set a good example and not be so often on their phones themselves. easier said than done because my excuse to my boys is, i am actually

working. iam reading excuse to my boys is, i am actually working. i am reading an e—mail or a brief. doesn't matter to them. the children might be doing the same. no, take it from me, they are seriously playing fortnite. there is social communication. you sound like my kids! you learn sportsmanship. that is really powerful. we know that there are risks and harms online. and off—line. what we have to be able to do is manage those risks and have conversations around those things about what would you do if, how do you stay safe, making sure your child knows they can go to you if they have a problem and a worry and concern. that is incredibly important. max, go ahead. a lot of this is about having a space, real—world space where people are in perfect, your mum and your dad. you are spending time with them and experiencing them. people get

completely lost in the online world. social media is a game and we need to remember it is a game, you score points in likes and shares but it is only a game. that is great connection and information and entertainment to be had there, we just need to get a sense of perspective about some of the stuff. it doesn't matter how many followers you have, what matters is your relationships. those can be online, but it is relationships we need to focus on. let's hear from sally davis, she is england's chief medical officer and one of the people behind today's guidance. well, i'm not given to making rules because you can break them, but when we do give advice as the chief medical officers, it is always based on evidence. and we have published today a big evidence review — done by university college london — which shows that, in part, because this is a very fast—moving field of technology, there is very little evidence to base advice on. so, what we've done is produce advice to help parents that is based on evidence. it's the evidence of what makes for good development of young

people and children, and then said what this can mean for families. we are giving good advice, based on good evidence. if people follow that, and the technology evidence catches up, then they will be all right. follow this advice of getting your children to have good sleep, eat properly, get exercise, be safe, have family time, share sensibly, then they will be all right, however the evidence base develops. what do you think of that advice? chris is the vice chair of the conservative party and have set five—year—old twins, they are a bit young, but what do you think of the advice from sally davies today? young, but what do you think of the advice from sally davies today7m is very good advice and i am delighted the chief medical officer has given this guidance because it is about parents taking responsibility and making sure their

children do use their phones responsibly. i would encourage schools to do the same thing and limit screen time. under the age of 13, children should not be having smart at all. what i have heard from the people who spoke earlier about the people who spoke earlier about the way things like instagram, facebook and pinterest push out messages disturbs me. there is no way instagram should actively push out content promoting self—harm and the father of molly russell found items are molly's instagram and pinterest account where companies actively sent her promotion material about self— harm. actively sent her promotion material about self-harm. you are talking about self-harm. you are talking about an algorithm because she searched those terms and, as we know, you get offered more content in that particular subject area. know, you get offered more content in that particular subject aream is the responsibility of those companies not to respond to searches like self— harm or cutting companies not to respond to searches like self—harm or cutting by sending images that promote those. it is entirely their responsibility. they are failing in their duty. well,

they can do it because this is one of the things dame sally said today, they need to develop better algorithms that push positive content algorithms that push positive co nte nt to algorithms that push positive content to users, this has already been done for users who search for content that could potentially radicalise them, so instead of being fed material that terrorises them, they are sent material that aims to de—radicalise. i come from the angle of the national charity for the prevention for a young suicide. i come from the angle of saving lives, 224 children died in 2017, 4-5 angle of saving lives, 224 children died in 2017, 4—5 children are dying every week in the uk from suicide. when we worked with iain russell as we have done, and helped put his story forward for the bbc we had on

our national helpline no fewer than 30 families who had lost a child to suicide who were all convinced that social media had played a significant part. i think my feeling is as norman says, you cannot really tell whether social media is affecting the mental health of young people but what is happening is if a disturbed young person, someone who is vulnerable and is perhaps self harming, might be seeking some sort of normalisation of their behaviour and they go on to one of the sites, thatis and they go on to one of the sites, that is when as i think you have discovered, that you suddenly are confronted by this appalling material. we do not need to wait for the evidence to take a precautionary approach. we have two employs a

legal duty on these companies and i think it's the government's role to act so they know there are consequences if they fail to meet the duty of care. these companies have been around 5—10 years now and have been around 5—10 years now and have had a pretty freehand, largely unregulated and as the minister said ina unregulated and as the minister said in a speech yesterday, the government plans to punish a white paper shortly followed by legislation later this year and what the minister said was that that would involve a legal duty on these companies not to push harmful material. i hope they choose to act before that and do so voluntarily know they've seen the evidence that a lot of young people are suffering asa a lot of young people are suffering as a result but the government as margot james said, will be legislating later in the year and i think that's necessary. in may last year when matt hancock was culture secretary he said you would be legislating to tame the wild west of the internet, to make britain one of the internet, to make britain one of the safest places you could be

online. that was me last year. two weeks ago as health secretary he said we will potentially consider banning social media companies, what's taking so long? margot james said yesterday legislation will follow this year, a white paper coming ina follow this year, a white paper coming in a couple of months' time. it was a summer consultation, i think we should remember that off—line intervention is important, mental health provision is important, waiting times for children are ridiculous. we need to make sure you are doing stuff online and doing billing prevention in schools. one of the things which are most surprised me when i was first elected to parliament four years ago, it was mostly adolescent girls and young women coming to my surgery with the problems you are describing, so there is a need to increase mental health provision in the real world if i can put it that way. the government and nhs long—term plan just a few weeks ago is putting an extra £17 billion into adolescent mental health which

will do to things, it will mean more specialist consultants and specialist consultants and specialist places but they are also piloting ahead of a full roll—out getting mental health workers working directly in schools to try to deal with problems as they arrive. they to deal with problems as they arrive. th ey talk to deal with problems as they arrive. they talk over each other we are in the middle of the perfect storm, iam are in the middle of the perfect storm, i am the labour mp for tooting but i am also an accident and emergency doctor who sees things on the front when kids and families come in desperate. i am also the mother of two girls so i would like to say thank you to those coming on telling their heartfelt stories because i cannot imagine what it must feel like to lose a child. but we are in the middle of a perfect storm, you have social media companies not taking accountability for what is their responsibility which is to have a duty of care to protect our young people. you have pa rents protect our young people. you have parents who love their children trying to navigate a system. social media has exploded, parents don't

know what to do to protect their children. and mental health services, we have had a lot of rhetoric from the government but mental health services are being cut. we have to cut things off at source, and make sure social media companies are held accountable. do you think there is a link, do you accept there is a link between the athletes and mental health crisis experts say we are experiencing at the moment and the cuts to mental health services since 2010 under conservative and lib dem coalition government? nhs spending has been going up over that period. the demand has been increasing as well. you have made cuts to mental health services. nhs spending as a whole has gone up including for mental health but demand is growing even faster which is why more money is going on. including they talk over each other have been cuts. why is

nobody looking at the root cause? daniel was stressed out with his gcse's, he was so stressed it was unbelievable. the pressure from schools on kids doing gcse's is why he felt there was no way out. why don't you put money into the root cause of why children feel like they are because you've got young children, i know, because we run a facebook group, there are thousands of people on there, kids on there who are ten—year—old stressed out and crying. there is no need for this pressure. it needs joined up thinking, the department for education has to work with the department of health to look at what we can do together because this is not about scoring political points it's about seeing we have young people dying every day unnecessarily, what can we do collectively to really accept the issues and listen to young people as we are today and see what do you need from us? let me read you this text m essa g e need from us? let me read you this text message from somebody watching

right now. my son was actively told by other teenagers in a whatsapp group how to end his life. ifound these messages on my sons phone after he had cut himself. i only found out he had cut himself when his school called me to say his classmates had seen marks on his arms when he changed for pe. it's horrifying what is happening on social media, fortunately we caught it in time and my son is in a better place now. he is allowed to use his la ptop place now. he is allowed to use his laptop but we monitor his exposure and he is not on any social media. the story of molly russell has been a wake—up call to everyone and my heart goes out to her family. this e—mail says i have a 26—year—old daughter who uses facebook and instagram. they would post daily photos of themselves. she has been suffering from anxiety and an eating disorderfor suffering from anxiety and an eating disorder for the last five years. i blame social media for the mental health problems because she would scrutinise her body and her look steely. she is now having a form of

talking therapy once a week and is no longer using social media and it's part of her therapy. she feels more positive and happy which is a relief. we will talk more about whether you think there should be legislation to regulate, control and monitor social media companies and the way they treat users. but let's ask what social media companies realistically can do to make sure children and other vulnerable people are safe online. on this programme, we've told you about yubo before — it's an app, developed in france, but used a lot in the us and here in the uk. it has 20 million users, and is mainly aimed at teenagers. the company says it blocks the most harmful content from the platform. it's a challenge, and yubo was criticised in the early days for not stopping nude pictures and potential child grooming. but now they say they're proud of the steps they take. they're working with identification software developers to make sure everyone who uses yubo is who they say they are. and even though they have just 12 members of staff — for 20 million users —

they say they have moderators around the world, but wouldn't tell us how many. yubo's software automatically recognises and blocks harmful images and, after that, the staff manually check images that are bordeline and the app encourages users to report inappropriate or offensive content. here's a look at what they do. chief operating officer at yubo. yubo is a social app to make new friends and create meaningful relationships. the app now has 20 million users all over the world. and the idea is that you can find your best friend. no, it is not a dating app. it is the future of social media because there are more and more lonely, and the interaction we have is based on the content they use,

so what we want to build with yubo is some real—time interaction, creating groups of friends, and the idea is really to find people that have the same interests as you have. i think harmful content is a very broad, there is a very broad definition, but what we considered at yubo is that we should make sure that people feel well, feel safe, and that we create a healthy environment for them, so far as it's all about moderation in the guidelines we create. we decided to delete and remove pictures like pictures of drugs, violence, pictures where you're shirtless, because we don't want the body cultures to be like something important on our platform. so, on yubo there are different layers of moderation, so the first is all about pre—moderation, and we have different algorithms to make sure we spot inappropriate content like nudity, drugs, violence, animal cruelty, self injury.

and after, it is crucial to make sure you answer quickly to user reports and to understand what is at stake. we have, like, bad press, two years ago, and there were only three in the company, so we really worked hard to find the issues, work on safety a lot, more than any social media company who have thousands of employees, we had to learn a lot and we made a lot of changes. the challenge that really is important is how you tackle this issue. it's all about solving problems and seeing the problems,

and if something goes on you need, one, to act very quickly, and secondly, to find a way to make this not happen again. the issue we have on a platform and every platform in society is an issue and we need to have to make sure we find a good answer, in terms of product, user understanding, so you need to be humble and work hard on this issue. that is what they can do, andy burrows is here, he's the head of online safety at the nspcc and you met earlier today? yes and the message we've seen met earlier today? yes and the message we've seen is we have seen met earlier today? yes and the message we've seen is we have seen a decade where instagram and other platforms have not taken the most basic steps to protect children online. you have seen a site like yubo with a dozen or so staff demonstrating a desire to innovate and keep children safe and the story

we see at the nspcc is that it's the largest sites with the greatest resources who have the biggest problem in terms of risk. every year we ask children if they have seen inappropriate content like self—harm and suicide material and facebook is high risk across every single one of the categories in the survey. the larger sites are the ones that have the resource and the know—how and the resource and the know—how and the expertise to get on top of these problems. presumably you asked why are you not doing more and what the to you? i think we recognise that they have not done enough and we push them strongly to commit to going much further much faster to get on top of this problem. i think theissueis get on top of this problem. i think the issue is we have seen i think 13 different exa m ples of the issue is we have seen i think 13 different examples of self regulation over the last decade. social networks will not take the necessary steps by themselves which is why the white paper which is about to come out as a landmark opportunity to make sure we see a statutory regulator, a duty of care

imposed on these platforms because u nless imposed on these platforms because unless there is a legal requirement to ta ke unless there is a legal requirement to take these issues seriously we have seen unfortunately platforms will not do it themselves.” have seen unfortunately platforms will not do it themselves. i want to read the statement from instagram, we wa nt read the statement from instagram, we want to be sure we are getting this right and we started a full review of our policies, enforcement and technologies around suicide and self injury content. whilst we conduct this review we had a team of engineers working around the clock to make changes to make it harder for people to search for and find self—harm content. so they can do that. hang on... it begs the question as to why they have left it until this week. question as to why they have left it untilthis week. in question as to why they have left it until this week. in the explore pages and we are stopping the recommendation of accounts that post self—harm content. from this week people will start to see sensitivity screens appearing over self—harm related content that is permitted under the guidelines. on completion of the review we will share what we have learned and what more we can do

to protect the people who use instagram. in those proposals that you will publish at some point this year, is going to be a regulator in there? we will wait and see what the detail is but margot james, the minister, said clearly yesterday that the legislation would come forward that will put a legal duty on these companies not to promote harmful material and i agree with the point norman just harmful material and i agree with the point normanjust made, they have had the capability to do this for years. they have the most sophisticated technology companies in the world, they are very good at promoting adverts when it suits commercial interest but they have chosen not to use, to put in place those measures you read out to prevent harmful energies where there is extremism, terrorism in this case self— harm. they have is extremism, terrorism in this case self—harm. they have chosen not is extremism, terrorism in this case self— harm. they have chosen not to do it and they act now. if you do bring that legislation in and they break the law what will happen to them? we will have to look at what

them? we will have to look at what the sanctions were... the need to be fined, data protection regulations stop people, we need to introduce fines which are significant, 4% of the bottom—line revenue for the year or 20 million euros, whichever is greater because unless we deal with it properly and come down hard they will continue to get away with it and my worry is that the government will keep kicking this calm into the wrong class and we will not do it. as was said, last may, now we have the end of the year, we need to act now. i was going to say that fines should be the minimum. there has been talk about whether individual directors should they talk over each other personal liability. let me ask others in the audience, would you like to see rules which mean social media companies have duties of care to someone like you not to show you

disturbing content? definitely, i think it's a huge thing people need to focus on, not necessarily, it's about what people can see and what they observe, it's something they have recommended, and it's a smaller seeing someone with a six pack, that's affecting young girls and young boys, it's affecting young people as a whole and its it's an awful example of what can happen. if they have restrictions or something, we need to focus on this, because if we need to focus on this, because if we do not this will happen, not just, somebody will see this and then the block it and it's done with. do you want to see legislation? i think the cover for sensitive and it is not enough because of the frame of mind i was

andl because of the frame of mind i was and i would have collected anyway, it's like not pressing the big red button, you want to see what it is about. the contents and the graphic nature of what i was looking at does not need to be online. so yes to new laws, what would you say? it needs to go further, you mentioned the sensitivity warning, the people who will be the most sensitive are those who are click on it. the onus has a lwa ys who are click on it. the onus has always been on users which is why influencers like myself take such great pains to make sure we promote positive content and we take advantage of algorithms to talk about mental health, body positivity and all kinds of things in a positive light but there's only so much we can do and algorithms work against us as well so the focus should be on social networks. alex, you are on the global safety advisory board for facebook and instagram, facebook and instagram, i

hope most people know that, you are talking to instagram yesterday, why have they done nothing up till now? lam also have they done nothing up till now? i am also on the board of yubo and other organisations and charities also work with them. when you are on the board do you say come on, you have to sort this? so why have they not? there is more that instagram and let's not forget gaming companies can do... why have they not until now? i think the opposition would be that that stuff should not be on there, there is an argument that four people, particularly young people looking for that sort of information, if they are able to be signposted to support charities like samaritans and papyrus, that is more helpful than going to the dark web where there is no signposting. does anybody buy that? that some of the stuff is on there because it can point you in a supportive direction?

i worry, my eldest son patrick took his own life four years ago, he was 25. he was undoubtedly suffering from mental health issues. there was no way he would have self regulated himself. he was constantly on the dark web. i cannot prove because we could never get into his computers after he died, i cannot prove he did not go on suicide needs websites to explain how to do it. but i'm pretty sure that he did. my heart goes out to emma and chelsea for losing daniel. daniel went to emma and chelsea for losing daniel. danielwent on to emma and chelsea for losing daniel. daniel went on google and typed in his anxiety so i know he suffered with anxiety and it gave

him a load of information about after that he went on to find out how to kill yourself and give you a step—by—step guide. how to kill yourself and give you a step-by-step guide. do other people accept the argument from alex that some, this is what the social media companies say, that they keep some of the staff there because it can push people to support organisations and charities? when i was on social media nothing helped me whatsoever, if anything it was the opposite. i also sympathise because my best friend took her own life at the age of 14. it was something i had to deal with which snapped me out of my rut i guess, thankfully. but images did not help me whatsoever, did not help my friend, clearly.” did not help me whatsoever, did not help my friend, clearly. i agree, some of those images should not have been on there and i think the policy is changing. sorry, i know you're not representing instagram and

facebook, you'rejust on not representing instagram and facebook, you're just on the advisory board, but what you think the reason is why they've not done anything up until now?” the reason is why they've not done anything up until now? i think they have been doing things, they work with the nspcc and the samaritans and papyrus, but it's not in isolation. they have not taken it seriously, let's be honest. things like terrorism and child sexual exploitation there is a worldwide approach, the government here says they want to make the uk the safest place but that's bizarre because we have to do this with multiple cove na nts have to do this with multiple covenants because these companies... so you think legislation is the way to go? the companies have told me they are ready for a leg regulation but they need government to stop doing headlines and act. the companies will applied but the legislation is not there. why do they want legislation, why would they want legislation, why would they not do it voluntary delay? they

all have community standards and the work hard to adhere to that where they can but there are floors and sometimes young people, i want people watching this to know they should report content which goes against community standards because it will get reviewed and taken down in most cases, not all the time but i think there is will and they are always meeting with professionals about this and with government, but the government ultimately needs to act, instead of talking and doing headlines, instead of frightening parents they need to act. they want you to bring laws to regulate them? the government is going to act but i find it astonishing that you are seeing these companies are refusing to do anything about it until they are compelled to? they are not refusing. here is what pinterest sent to a young girl who had searched depression and suicide, one seeing it closed their eyes and they

sent the blood flowing...” seeing it closed their eyes and they sent the blood flowing... i should have been able to give a warning to viewers... that is an isolated case, they are not part of this grouping. instagram sends similar content. we do not promote... i will read some messages, this pure says my 13—year—old son got his school when he entered secondary school at 12 andi he entered secondary school at 12 and i blocked all social media access, his only access to the media is through trusted educational apps. there is another app that reports to be his location and online activities. i regularly discuss with him and ensure he understands i love him. i have a friendly relationship with him and ensure he can discuss everything with me. that is good advice. i loved daniel but it did not stop him. one of the major problems with children social media is that when you come across content

which you know should not be on the reporting it is almost useless. the issue here is that although i have blocked the content personally it is still online and on that website. it's not the internet says this person or the social media is fault for the tragedies which have happened. it is parents giving children smartphones and access to these apps, parents cannot parent any more, no disciplinary boundaries. kids do what they want. discuss. they talk over each other there are plenty of penance in here, discuss. i would just like to see... no, discuss that, parents are not doing theirjob properly? that's an awful thing to say. is there any truth in it? i think parents need better educating but i have a five—year—old and we were invited to school to go to a cyber bullying workshop and i know that even as an mp, in myjob, i called out something awful and within ten hours

i had 1000 pieces of abuse telling me my husband should slap me, i should get back to the kitchen, go back to where i come from. you report these things they don't get taken down. the knock—on effect, i am big enough and ugly enough to say i will go off my social media but imagine you are a 13—year—old girl? i see girls coming into hospital who have posted a photo, they don't get 100 likes and they feel depressed, thatis 100 likes and they feel depressed, that is what the feel defines them and that them sad. the fact is we all have a responsibility here and do you see parents with children and parents on their phones not engaging with their children. and we are all grappling with the social revolution over the last five years and part of it has to be regulation and i think we all or a massive... i had no reason to check daniel's phone. that is why there has to be a legal responsibility on the government.

this on an e—mail says i was watching videos of dogs on facebook, i watched about five, the next video which came on was of a deceased child being closed down with water ona child being closed down with water on a metal table. there was no sensitivity filter and it started playing straightaway without warning. iam playing straightaway without warning. i am 26 and i find this disturbing. it gave me nightmares. imagine if this was someone younger. i reported the video and received a response that it did not break the rules. they talk over each other final word, andy? rules. they talk over each other finalword, andy? we know parents desperately want information on how to keep children safe but the emphasis has been on parents and children having to be resilient to the material on these websites rather than on industry stepping up and taking its responsibility. that's what's got to change. absolutely. if you would like help

or support for these issues then go to the bbc action line website. you so much everybody for giving up yourtime, you so much everybody for giving up your time, really appreciated. good morning, it's been a very windy start to the day, heavy rain around this morning as well. a lot of the rain clearing away towards the east, the winds are easing down as well and as we go into the afternoon it's looking much more dry and bright across many parts of the uk, showers coming into the western area is perhaps along the southern coast maximum temperatures up to around 7-10. the maximum temperatures up to around 7—10. the winds will become lighter throughout the afternoon but the winds will start to strengthen again as we go through this evening, this

next batch of cloud and rain starting to move its way from the south through the early hours. it's all a linkedin with a rapidly deepening area of low pressure moving its way across the uk, on friday you can see the isobars are close together, all the rain linkedin with the low pressure saw a wet start to friday and strong winds around as well, bear that in mind, there could be disruption because of there could be disruption because of the strong winds. more throughout the strong winds. more throughout the morning, goodbye. you re watching bbc newsroom live — it's 11 am and these are the main stories this morning:

theresa may is holding talks with eu leaders in brussels as she seeks legally binding changes to the brexit deal — i'm in brussels. theresa may is meeting junker later today britain will not be trapped in the irish burger backstop burger meanwhile, jeremy corbyn has written to theresa may — setting out five demands that could see labour back a brexit deal in parliament the cost of energy is set to rise for 11 million customers after the regulator, ofgem, raised price caps — the average user will pay nearly 100 and 20 pounds more a yearfrom april a man has been arrested on suspicion of abducting student libby squire who went missing in hull a week ago. search crews recover a body from the wreckage of the plane