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montague. in a matter of weeks, britain will leave the eu and yet what happens then is still not agreed, the sticking point in negotiations as the irish border. how can the uk be outside the european union and yet there be no change to the border between northern ireland and the republic? but the good friday agreement 20 yea rs but the good friday agreement 20 years ago brought peace to ireland in large part because it made aboard invisible. my guest today, bertie ahern, was irish prime minister at the time of the agreement and was one of the signatories. does he really think peace is threatened now? bertie ahern, welcome to hardtalk.

how great you think is the threat to peace from brexit? well, i have continually said over the last two yea rs continually said over the last two years and i hope that there is never any return to violence again that we never go back to the bad old days, but i think we have to be aware that the idea of an infrastructural border again, going back the idea of an infrastructural borderagain, going back to the idea of an infrastructural border again, going back to customs post, going back to police or army on the border would really heightened fears and tensions. border has been controversial for since the 1920s, the ira campaign of i9 56 to 62 was just a border campaign, it was centred around the border, and of course, the more recent troubles, more recent in

terms of it was 1968, 69 on to the 1998 agreement, that was in large pa rt 1998 agreement, that was in large part on the border too. and we know that there are grave tensions at the moment along the border, as i still wa nt to moment along the border, as i still want to believe that we would not return to violence but i think that the tensions, the animosity, the bitterness, the hatred and hatred, that bringing back any kind of border would not be ignored. at neither side, no—one in these negotiations wants there to be any police or army as you are talking about on the border and most people are saying they do not really want customs checks either, at least not on the board itself. well, i agree with that, sarah, and the difficulty is it is a pity that 587 pages of the withdrawal agreement is coming down to talking about one issue. i don't for a moment think that it is

the only issue but people are saying that the backstop is really the only issue and that is what the vote in westminster was indicating as well. the backstop is merely a safety net, thatis the backstop is merely a safety net, that is to provide in the event of there being no trading between the eu and the uk, that there can't be a ha rd eu and the uk, that there can't be a hard border. and i suppose also that there can be no tariffs, there can be no customs, there are to be no rules of origin is or no customs procedures that could create a hard border or create terms between the eu and uk that would create difficulties on the border. can i ask you, before we, we will get into the various details of what is going on and the options, but how is it that you can see, let's assume there are police or army on the border, how then could violence re—emerge? what are the provocative things all the things that could be seen as

provocative, that would allow it to happen? i think the old way was that there were customs checks before it really got violence, and continually, any kind of physical infrastructure on the border was a lwa ys infrastructure on the border was always a source of attack. it was a lwa ys always a source of attack. it was always a source of attack. it was always a source of identifying a division on the island of ireland. of course, then we had later on, we had the huge watchtowers, the security watchtowers that were seen as essential by the british army and then you had a police barracks, and all these things will move. part of the agreement that i did tony blair was, it was actually part of the good friday agreement and in the subsequent discussions that went in from 1998 2000 seven, they were all removed. so now when you hit the border, there is nothing, it is an invisible line. people know where it is, the local people know where it is, the local people know where it is, but there is nothing to indicate that you can't drive from dublin to

belfast, it we could drive to vary, but we can drive all over the place and there is no infrastructure. the expert i suppose on trade issues, head of the wto, once commission on trade, he indicates that it is impossible in the event of the uk and eu deal, that you have to have a physical border if there is no agreement on the withdrawal terms, andi agreement on the withdrawal terms, and i think he is a person who is eminently able to indicate these things. there at others though he said that there are other ways of doing the checks and we know from both the british government and the irish government has said they do not want to put back any form of physical checks, are you suggesting that even if they were camera on a road, by a that even if they were camera on a road, bya road, that even if they were camera on a road, by a road, that that could see a re—emergence of violence? road, by a road, that that could see a re-emergence of violence? yeah, well, i think, a re-emergence of violence? yeah, well, ithink, you know, rather than

think of violence as we did in the past, i think you could take it that if there was any kind of physical customs checks along the border, that he would not have to be waiting for paramilitary groups to remove them, the local people in the border area just would not allow it and you know where that leaves two, then security people are dragged into it. the view of people in the island of ireland, i think everybody in the island of ireland, i think of all traditions they do not want to see any kind of a physical infrastructure imposed, and this is the difficulty. nobody wants it, you don't want it, the british government don't want it, the irish government don't want it, the irish government don't want it, the irish government don't want it, i think none of the political parties want it, but the very essence of having a trade agreement have you have to have checks and balances, where you have checks and balances, where you have to look at the rules of the irish entry, you have to look at

customs procedures, where you have to have tariffs, then you are almost forced to put the border somewhere. indeed, so then you are left with the question how can the uk ever leave the eu? well, you know, i honestly believe and i hope that in the days to come that there can be an agreement found around some of these issues. i don't honestly believe that it's not possible to find an understanding in negotiations. i spent 20 years in my life involved with all kinds of negotiations on budget arrangements to eu treaty changes, to the enlargement process that i did during the irish issue, really enormous issues, it really is not clear to me why we can't try and find a solution to this. i still think it is necessary. that is partly because of the point you are just making that any form of trade

agreement would necessitate increased checks, and that, as you suggest, is a problem. now, any checks are going to be needed, the free trade agreement, it perhaps suggest is why there is such a problem with the backstop, because nobody could see how you could ever leave it, how you could ever leave the customs union between the uk and eu. yeah, well, i... ivery the customs union between the uk and eu. yeah, well, i... i very much understand the british government's points that if you have an arrangement of the backstop that you can never get out of it, but the way after that is in the future relationship, that an alternative is found. and i think that is the challenge. i mean, ithink the people who are looking at this day in and day out, i know that in brussels and in london and dublin, they are doing this, there must be away in the future relationship and because we all do, remember, there

will no backstop necessary if there isa will no backstop necessary if there is a trade deal, satisfactory trade deal worked out between the eu and the uk. my honest belief is that because the trade is so important to both eu countries enter the uk, that in the future relationship, they will work out a trade deal. i mean, it is, it is really nonsensical to believe that over the next few yea rs, believe that over the next few years, i know these things can drag on, i accept that point, but it must be possible for the interest of the european union and the uk in the future relationship to find a better relationship. 0k, future relationship to find a better relationship. ok, but can ijust establish, can you see a way that the uk can leave a customs union with the eu? well, look, a mean that to my personal point of view, i would rather see the uk stay in the customs union. yes, i'mjust wondering if it is possible because free—trade agreements rely on some form of checks? they do, but if

there is no deal... there are two parts to this, if they leave the no deal, is straightaway and apply the wto rules and i go back to what was said on this, and i think everybody else has said the same too, then you have to have a high border. that seems clear and i do not think anyone disagrees with that. i sat through many sessions on brexit in universities with various experts and it seems very clear that if you go to wto rules, that you have a ha rd go to wto rules, that you have a hard border. then, leave that one side, if there is an eu uk trade deal, then it is imperative that you have to find a new, different relationship than the backstop. and thatis, relationship than the backstop. and that is, that is the challenge, but ifind it, listen, i have seen compromises in all kinds of things,

including the compromises in the good friday agreement, and i know the withdrawal agreement has already compromises at it does not see in beyond the wicked men and women to beyond the wicked men and women to be able to find a solution in the future relationship that will prevent the backstop staying forever. is one of the reasons that the dup leader, arlene foster, the former irish first minister said to the intransigence former irish first minister said to the intra nsigence of former irish first minister said to the intransigence of the european union and the republican attitude, they are actually more likely to bring about the very thing that they wa nt to bring about the very thing that they want to avoid. they are not compromising and therefore no deal is more likely, do you agree with her? well, you know, the clock is running down their rolling down the hill. you know, there is only six or seven weeks now to the end of march. i still think that there is —— i may be wrong in this, but i still think there is a large majority of people in the house of commons that do not wa nt to in the house of commons that do not want to no deal. there are various options to look at them, do they

push the article 50 out further? and is there a coalition of people from both labour and from the tories? but i certainly, let me be very clear on arlene foster's point, i get on very well with arlene foster as they do with most unionist and loyalists, there is nobody i know in the republic of ireland, or northern ireland for that matter, that once no deal brexit. it is not in our interest, it is not in anybody‘s interest, it is not in anybody‘s interest, it is not in the uk's interests, it would cause enormous economic difficulties and problems in the island of ireland, so we do not want to no deal, we want to try and find a fair compromise. the withdrawal agreement, and find a fair compromise. the withdrawalagreement, remember, and find a fair compromise. the withdrawal agreement, remember, was negotiated over 21 month period and it is full of compromises. should the irish government avoid a no deal all cost is? guess, i think the irish government avoid a no deal all cost is? guess, ithink they should. i think they, and the meeting that is coming up between

the taoiseach and the british prime minister will be looking at that. it is to try and find a compromise is far better than a no deal brexit, but unfortunately, that compromise can't be unravelling the withdrawal agreement because that is already full of compromises, sorrow, you know, normally in negotiations you are coming to the end line and you are coming to the end line and you are saying well, let's find a compromise. in this case, the airline was reached last november. the ritual agreement with all the compromises was concluded on what the british government are asking now, that it be... but the reason that the british government are asking is because parliament has voted, majority of the british parliament have voted to replace the backstop in the ritual agreement. —— so. so she has no choice. no, i accept that and i accept that the

situation changed on that front, but therefore you have two look out some arrangements, that doesn't undo the withdrawal agreement. i mean, arrangements, that doesn't undo the withdrawalagreement. i mean, both the parties to the withdrawal agreement at the uk and eu, the eu say they are not going to open it up again, the uk are saying they need is alternative arrangements. therefore, you have to, remember a year ago, therefore, you have to, remember a yearago, sarah, therefore, you have to, remember a year ago, sarah, people therefore, you have to, remember a yearago, sarah, people said therefore, you have to, remember a year ago, sarah, people said you can't put anything about the future relationships into a withdrawal agreement, now there is a political declaration in the withdrawal agreement, so things can alter and change. and i honestly... is the simple solution to add a time limit to the back stop? no, i don't think the time limit is the way to go. if you put a time limit into it, you are saying that on some future days, say the end of 2122, you are going to have a border so that is

only the wrong thing to do. you know about negotiations, you know about the importance of deadlines. the former brexit secretary david davis has made the point, there is no case foran has made the point, there is no case for an article 50 extension which is what you have suggested should possibly happen. he says the eu has a history of 11th hour deal and that is what happened with the good friday agreement. is the prime minister, does prime minister theresa may make the right point when she is not considering any other option because she wants to get something done in the next few weeks? i think she is, get something done in the next few weeks? ithink she is, because get something done in the next few weeks? i think she is, because 587 pages of a 20— months of negotiation is an enormous amount of work and there is a lot of good things in the withdrawal agreement, a lot of positive things in it and i think to suspend an article 50, to the end of the year, it only drags it out.

having a general election is not a possibility. i think the focusing on the minds over this period is to look at what can be done, not changing the withdrawal agreement but the future relationship, something that is legally binding which is what i think the house of commons is saying, see if there is a way of doing that. just to be clear, no extension, you would say no extension or delay to brexit? not yet a nyway. extension or delay to brexit? not yet anyway. i think the delay might be necessary because it is not possible to get the measures through. putting it down to the end of the year doesn't really get you anywhere. you of course, you talk about the deal you struck with tony

blair. in the importance of personalities, the relationship between people who are in the situation where donald tusk, who is talked about a special place and help the people who promoted brexit without a sketch of a plan to carried out safely. that criticism has gone down very badly in the uk. was he mistaken to say it? well, there is a common thing on one issue. in recent weeks, particularly the christmas and new year period, the christmas and new year period, the rhetoric on both sides is getting stronger and stronger, and that's never helpful in negotiations and one of the problems that i think, sarah, and i've been involved in negotiations of european agreements but also the good friday agreement are lots of other things with unions and employers, all of this in the full gleam of the media

makes it very difficult and it seems to me with time narrowing down, key people on all sides need to sit down together and to try and knock heads and do it out of the everyday globe, that every time there is a meeting of 50 minutes, there seems to be a 50- of 50 minutes, there seems to be a 50— minute press conference and that is recipe for people making inflammatory statements on both sides and involving the european parliament and the commission and the council, the british government and the parliament, in ireland as well so i think it is not the way to conclude negotiations. i think cool heads... there was another very interesting moment in a press conference where the irish prime minister, leo varadkar, gave a thank you card to jean—claude juncker, minister, leo varadkar, gave a thank you card tojean—claudejuncker, the president of the european commission and the text of a thank you card

a p pa re ntly and the text of a thank you card apparently said, thanking jean—claude juncker for the first time ever. —— for the first time ever, ireland is stronger than britain. would you also thank jean—claude juncker and thanking brussels for strengthening ireland's hand? i think they have been extremely helpful to us and extremely helpful to us and extremely oil —— loyal to backing the good friday agreement so i welcome the solidarity that we've had but i equally don't want to see, the interests of the uk and ireland in all of these are enormous. i have no interest in us going to the back —— going back to the days of the past where we have a critical and a sliding match, as we say in dublin, with each other. that would get us nowhere. both our economies are too important, the jobs, the nowhere. both our economies are too important, thejobs, the people, the trade we do with other and the relationship where we have the

cultural community into british consumers forfood, cultural community into british consumers for food, all these things are hugely important to the island of ireland and the amount of goods that go every day between north and south, back and forwards, sometimes the same items go back and forward a few times for various processes and reasons so the last thing i want to see. 20 years ago, i got a lot of credit for improving the relationship between ireland and the uk and do not want to go back to the bad old days where we criticised each other and ridiculed each other soi each other and ridiculed each other so i think that's why the language needs to be tampered down. we need to be more considerate. the key people need to sit down and try negotiating conclusion. there are many things that have changed in that time, not least the demographics in northern ireland, where there are an increasing number of catholics. northern ireland voted to remain in the eu which is why there are increasing calls for another vote, vote on the reunification of ireland. we have

sinn fein's deputy leader michelle o'neill -- sinn fein's deputy leader michelle 0'neill —— michelle 0'neill say in a new generation is already questioning partition, in the context of brexit, and calling on the irish government to prepare a realistic plan for reunification. what do you say to those who say, look, this is maybe what the people of the island of ireland want? well, i certainly don't think this is the time to why the talk about it or have such a poll, the border poll, as it's called. it is correct to say, and i was responsible for putting provision into the good friday agreement, that they can be a border poll from time to time with the say—so of the secretary of state, based on the in circumstances but the key issue is, that we don't have institutions in northern ireland, we don't have the executive, the assembly, the east— west bodies and the absence of those for the last few years i think as

being detrimental to the progress that we would have made in all these discussions if they had have been running. i think the irish government or the british government can't be blamed for that. i think the idea of not getting them up and running, and not seeing them working, for several years, maybe then you consider a border poll but to have a border poll now in the middle of this would be inactive insanity in my view. but ultimately in the next 20 years perhaps, perhaps longer, g think a united ireland will be inevitable? perhaps longer, g think a united ireland will be inevitable ?|j wouldn't ireland will be inevitable?” wouldn't say inevitable but i do think there will be a border poll and if the uk, which seems almost positive now, to pull out of the eu, theissue positive now, to pull out of the eu, the issue then will notjust be about whether there should be a united ireland, people should be reflecting, to northern ireland want to be in the european union or not? scotla nd to be in the european union or not? scotland might have a similar position in years to come but do see

that being a factor that people who wa nt to that being a factor that people who want to be in europe will say, a united ireland is more attractive. i would really only want to even talk about that discussion when i see the institutions in northern ireland working properly for a prolonged period, proving that they are capable of handling issues. so just briefly, given where we are with a brexit negotiations, how fearful are you that all you achieved 20 years ago could come unstuck?” you that all you achieved 20 years ago could come unstuck? i am worried about that, sarah. the difficulty, the slippery slope sometimes something that you can't stop on and ijust fear something that you can't stop on and i just fear that if we get something that you can't stop on and ijust fear that if we get ——we have any kind of hard border, we would be honest that we slope.” any kind of hard border, we would be honest that we slope. i worry about it. bertie ahern, thank you very much. hello there.

the weather has taken a bit of a turn to something a lot more unsettled to end the week. something we haven't seen in quite awhile, pretty deep areas of low pressure bringing gales and spells of heavy rain and friday is looking very unsettled with a deep area of low pressure to bring widespread gales and quite heavy rain. now, this is actually a deep low that is being named storm erik by met eireann because it will likely bring disruptive winds to the northern half of the country including parts of scotland and northern england as we head from friday night into saturday. but early this morning, the winds will be picking up from the south—west

as this storm gets closer. it'll be pushing in some pretty heavy rains in northern and western areas, maybe some snow over the scottish hills. it's going to be a very mild start to friday, particularly across the south—west. temperatures there in plymouth around 10 degrees. so it's going to be a very blustery morning. outbreaks of showery rain ahead of the main band of rain which will spread its way eastwards, bringing some pretty torrential in fact across some central and eastern areas into the afternoon. the rain remains heavy across much of scotland and northern ireland, those winds will feature a5—55mph across many areas. 60—70 across some northern and western coasts to go over hills as well. 0n the plus side, it'll be pretty mild because of those south—westerlies but 10—12 degrees might not feel so mild because of the wind and rain. now, storm erik is very slow—moving towards the north of the uk through friday and saturday and the southern flank cuts a swathe with strong winds across parts of northern ireland into central and southern scotland

and northern england. so a very blustery start to the day, perhaps even disruptive to start on saturday morning. a very windy day for all but further south, we should see sunshine around around but much of the northern scotland will remain very wet with further snow on the hills. rainfall totals really mounting here with a chance flooding in places. another mild day in the south. rain arriving in the south—west later on. so through friday and into saturday, we will likely to see some disruption from these very strong winds, so keep tuned to your weather forecast and to your bbc local radio. now, this feature may bring a spell of wet and windy weather across the very far south of england, saturday night into sunday, but it should slowly clear away into the near continent as sunday wears on, so an improving picture here, with winds turning to a north—westerly direction so that will be a cooler direction but at least brightening up. and we will see a band of showery rain moving south across northern areas with some cool air there, so some snow on the hills. so it will be turning cooler from sunday onwards. this is newsday on the bbc.

i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines: journalist jamal khashoggi was the victim of a brutal and premeditated killing by saudi arabian officials — according to the un investigator looking into the case. instagram says it's removing all graphic images of self—harm — after an outcry over the suicide of a british teenager. i'm nuala mcgovern in london. also in the programme: the body recovered from the wreckage of the plane that went down in the sea between france and britain is identified

as footballer emiliano sala. and a new island's born in the south pacific. but scientists say it could soon sink beneath the waves. live from our studios in singapore and london,