tv HAR Dtalk BBC News February 13, 2019 12:30am-1:01am GMT
12:30 am
our top story. one of the most powerful cartel leaders in history, wa keen ‘el chapo' guzman, has been found guilty at his drug trafficking trial in the us and faces a mandatory life sentence. once among the world's richest men, he was arrested in january 2016 after escaping from prison through a tunnel, then was extradited to the us. australia has announced the reopening of a controversial immigration detention centre on christmas island. it comes after the government lost a vote allowing sick refugees to be treated in australia. and this video is trending on bbc.com. police in houston, texas were called when a group of men who broke into an empty house, found a fully grown tiger. it's still not clear how it got there. it's now at an animal sanctuary. that's all. stay with bbc world news. now on bbc news, stephen sackur speaks to kenya's deputy president william ruto
12:31 am
on hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. kenya has big ambitions to be the economic and infrastructure powerhouse of east africa, but that can't happen without political stability. and right now there are worrying signs of factionalism and fragmentation at the top of kenyan politics. my guest is william ruto, two—term deputy to president uhuru kenyatta. their partnership has papered over many political cracks in kenya, but is it starting to crumble? deputy president william ruto, welcome to hardtalk.
12:32 am
thank you very much, stephen sackur. let us talk about the security situation in kenya. last month saw another jihadist attack in nairobi. 15 people were murdered. why is the kenyan government seemingly incapable of eliminating the threat posed by al—shabab and the jihadists? terrorism is an international challenge. no country in the world has ever claimed to eliminate terrorism. we keep working at it. what i can tell you, stephen, is that we are getting better at dealing with this challenge. if the response of the attack was anything to go by, the response time was seven minutes. all systems were there. in fact, in our opinion, we scuttled what these characters wanted to achieve and minimised what they managed to achieve. yeah, i don't think anybody
12:33 am
would argue that the security response after the attack was initiated was much better than that seen in the horrible westgate shopping complex attack, which is now more than five years ago. but, really, the trouble seems to be that in terms of intelligence and basic counterterrorism kenya is still not getting it right. and there are security sources in east africa who say that your lack of cooperation with somalia and other neighbouring countries is jeopardising the security of your citizens. far from what you have said.
12:34 am
in fact, the improved security situation in our region — remember, that this attack is coming way — after many months and years after what happened in westgate, telling you that, in between... five years and what lessons have the actually learned? ..in between, we have managed to resist, to eliminate, to thwart many attempts that were made. and, for the record, we are cooperating with many countries — the uk, the us, our regional partners. in fact, our position in somalia is actually solid. in fact, it is partially what we are doing in somalia in amisol is actually minimising. otherwise, there would be many attacks in our region. is it true, as reported in the kenyan media, that there were multiple warnings passed to your government in the months before the january 15th attack?
12:35 am
these are routine. is it true? these are routine alerts, and we took those alerts seriously, and we continue to take alerts seriously, and that is why we have managed to contain that situation to a minimum. do you think it is useful in terms of the counter—terror strategy of your government to abuse human rights? because there is no question — looking at human rights watch‘s recent report, amnesty international as well, it is beyond doubt i think that you are using arbitrary detention, sometimes torture — a series of serious human rights abuses as part of your counter—terror strategy? that is far from the truth. we are a democratic nation. we have since moved the country to a new constitutional disposition. human rights is at the heart of the new constitution and informs
12:36 am
every government decision and approach that we make on dealing with security in our country. 0k. if government spokespeople, after the publication of the last human rights watch report, said that any abuses would be looked into, and there was a catalogue of extrajudicial killings, enforced disappearances, arbitrary detention and torture. so, you tell me, since the report was published sometime ago, what has the kenyan government done in terms of accountability for those in your security forces said to be carrying out these actions? the independent police oversight authority has the requisite, constitutional and legal powers to take charge of... who has been held to account? ..any investigations that are in that direction... who has been held to account? ..and those people making those claims need to step forward
12:37 am
and provide the evidence to the independent oversight authority. it is not the police investigating themselves. we have independent institutions that have constitutional power to make sure that this happens. how many members of your security forces have been held accountable for abuses? in most cases, today it is normal for policemen to be held to account, unlike in the past. we have records that exist of police officers who have been... isn't the truth, mr deputy president, that nobody has been held to account for abuses in your counter—terror operations? can i ask you, are they proven? if there are proven incidences of police have been held culpable for human rights abuses, and they have not been prosecuted, i would be happy to know — who, where, where is the evidence? are there incidences where — police, there is evidence, there is documented information on abuse, and yet prosecution has not been done. i would be happy to know and i can promise you we would take action. just a final thought on the security situation. you referred to kenya's commitment to the un presence in somalia, and of course kenya launched its own
12:38 am
massive military operation inside somalia in 2011. so, for many years, kenya is being committed to trying to deliver security in somalia. it has to be said, for of those years, all of the resources and commitment, it is not working. so what is your long—term strategy for somalia? we have taken the position that this is not a kenyan decision to make, this is kenyan and international decision. we are responsible partners under amisom. we will work with other countries — the initiative under the un to make sure that we secure somalia. we have a vested interest as kenyam, because there our neighbours. if i may, just shorthand, you are telling me your military commitment in somalia is open—ended, indefinite? it is indefinite until we are certain that somalia is safe. up until somalia is safe, it would be reckless for us to walk away from a threat that threatens our country.
12:39 am
ok, so, we've dealt with one aspect of kenya's current situation. of course, kenya and your government committed to an agenda which you call the "big four agenda" of establishing in your country use universal healthcare, affordable housing, food security and real growth in manufacturing. that's what president kenyatta has committed your administration to, so, of course, you need security stability. you also need political stability. if we look at the political situation inside the government today, it is riven by factionalism, byjockeying for position, and you, in particular, are seen as somebody who has, in a sense, lost that solid partnership with president kenyatta, and that is now seen as a source of tension. let me tell you for the record, the understanding between me
12:40 am
and president kenyatta is rock—solid. we know who we are, we know where we are, and we know where we are going. our assembling of the big four was informed by the success that became of our programme and country over the last five years. we have a solid track record to rely on. this year there have been 600 kilometres of electricity connections renting to 6.9 million. we have a whole universal healthcare programme we've rolled out. oh, mr deputy president, you have grand ambitions and you have big targets. the problem is there is a cancer
12:41 am
eating away at your government and you know full well what it is, it is corruption. the auditor general of kenya said in the middle of last year that high—level corruption across all levels of government in your country threatens the integrity and basic functioning of the state. the government as it is constituted today is singularly focused on the big four. we have made that clear. but you can't deliver on your focus if you have this cancer of corruption eating away at the state. we have taken corruption head on as a government. in fact, there is no government after independence that has taken corruption as seriously as the jubilee administration. for the very first time... i don't know how you can say that, mr deputy president, how can you say that when your ethics and anti—corruption commission released a national survey recently which found, and i quote, the figure for those who pay bribes for receipt of government services has risen to 62. 62%! let me tell you, sackur, if there is an administration has taken the fight up against
12:42 am
corruption to a level that has been unimaginable, it is this administration. that's just words. look at action. even the most signature infrastructure project like, for example, the china —funded railway between nairobi and mombasa, it's being undermined by senior government officials who are on the take, who have been convicted in the last year of taking systematic bribes. for your information, in fact, you have given an example of how successful our anticorruption mechanisms are bearing fruit. any person involved in corruption knows today in kenya that they will not escape our net. on the 22nd of august, the ipsos polling organisation asked kenyans which politicians in your country they believe to be corrupt. people were asked, and this is the question, of all the current and past but alive political leaders you can think of, which one do you think is the most corrupt? guess who came out on top?
12:43 am
your guess is as good as mine. you. 33% chose you, william ruto. absolutely, yes. why do you think you are seen by so many kenyans as being the epitome of a corrupt politician? if you look at that list, they put william ruto, they put a former president, they put the current president, they put the current prime minister, the former prime minister. largely, all the political leaders that exist today in kenya were in that list in that order. and what does that tell us about the political culture of politics? that tells you that the whole corruption narrative has been politicised. that is what it boils down to. that's not what it tells me.
12:44 am
it tells me that your citizens have absolutely no faith in all of the words that you and others give to me about your pledge to clean up the country, to deliver on corruption. they don't believe a word of it. let me tell you, sackur, we have the fight against corruption. and i want to tell you that the country today believes strongly that this government, this administration, is serious about the fight against corruption. tell me about the weston hotel. there are results that are clearly bearing fruit. yeah, alright. the number of prosecutions, the number of convictions, if they are anything to go by, it tells you that the country has changed the trajectory on what it has to do with corruption. tell me about the weston hotel, which you own, which is worth an awful lot of money, and which is sitting on illegally acquired land. weston hotel is a big story. it is. you would want to believe that the weston hotel occupies half of nairobi.
12:45 am
weston hotel sits on seven hectares of land. illegally acquired land, which actually belonged to the civil aviation authority, and you miraculously acquired it and built a hotel on it. for your information, weston hotel was bought. illegally. for the record, the national land commission has made a finding that weston was an innocent purchase for value from somebody who got it illegally. and reparations have been made, constitutionally, to restore that land to kenya's civil aviation authority, by demanding that those who sold the land to us must pay. just on this point of trying to persuade the kenyan public that you and other people on top of politics in kenya are committed to the anti—corruption fight, and frankly to integrity at the top of government, why have you not followed the president's instruction
12:46 am
in what he calls a lifestyle audit — to actually go public with all your wealth and assets, itemise all of it, and show it to the kenyan public? you haven't done it, have you? for the record, i am the only politician in kenya who has been subject to a lifestyle audit. no other politician. so can we now see the audit? will it be made public? the audit has been done by the media. it is in the public domain. in fact, what has happened is there is — at the moment, we are all working on getting a legal framework where a lifestyle audit can be conducted for every public servant, starting from me. so you have published your — i'm not sure that kenyans know this. you're telling me that you have... it was done by the media. no, but this is nothing to do with the media. this is a form that all public officials are supposed to file, giving all public assets. so if you have got it, i would love to see it, and so would the kenyan people.
12:47 am
you are behind the news on that matter. you are behind the news. every public figure by law is supposed to submit a list of assets and liabilities to the speaker of the national assembly. that's right. i have tried — that i have not tried, that i have done. but you keep telling me the media have done it for me. this is not a question of the media. the media has gone further to carry out a lifestyle audit on william ruto, the only politician who has been subjected to a lifestyle audit. so when you did the sums, and you catalogued your assets, how much were you worth? that information is available in the public domain. well, great — tell me. you should have done some research before you came here. but if it is in the public domain, it is not a secret. so tell me how much you are worth.
12:48 am
it is in the public domain. i encourage you to google and find out what william ruto owns. will you or will you not tell me, given that you say you have been completely open and public with it, and that every kenyan knows this figure, according to you — will you share it with me? i encourage you, sackur, to go to the website of the parliament and get that information. so you are not prepared to tell me that information. i am prepared to tell you where to find that information, sackur. do you think the position you are taking with me makes any sense? of course — it doesn't make sense to you? you claim to be open and transparent, and yet you won't tell me what you are worth. why don't you want to do your homework? i am very keen to do my homework. please do your homework and get the numbers. and i want to promise you, when the legal framework is established, finally, by all of us as government, william ruto will submit himself to lifestyle audit. i have nothing to hide.
12:49 am
i have earned every cent that i own. see, i am a little confused, because you say you have already done it, and now you tell me in the future tense that you will commit yourself to lifestyle audit. i'm very confused about whether you've actually done it. what the law provided, sackur — if i can educate you a bit, what the law provided for is that everybody must submit the list of assets and liabilities to the speaker when you are running. we have since elevated that to the next level, that there must be a lifestyle audit, and the legal framework is being worked out for it. but what i told you is that the media has already carried out a lifestyle audit on me. what did you feel when the deputy chairman of the party in which you have been a part, with uhuru kenyatta, ruling kenya, thejubilee party — the vice—chairman of this party resigned from his post, saying he felt there was an unacceptable conflict of interest, as he now felt he had tojoin a legal case against you to ensure that you could not run
12:50 am
for president in 2022. people close to uhuru kenyatta have completely lost faith in you. the person that matters to me is uhuru kenyatta. for your information, the vice chair, the one you are referring to, walked away. david murathe. david murathe, because he overreached himself, and said things that he wanted the country to believe that that was the position of uhuru kenyatta, when it was not. murathe says you are not fit to be kenyan‘s next president. there are very many people who are opposed to my candidature, but there are millions who believe that i am fit for the job. and i want to tell you that it will not take one person or a gang or a group to decide who becomes president of kenya, orfor that matter, who becomes the candidate ofjubilee. it will take the entire jubilee party leadership, and it will take 45 million kenyans
12:51 am
to decide who becomes president. but you see, if one looks at politics in kenya today, we see faction fighting. we see, according to the nation newspaper in nairobi, that inside thejubilee party which you refer to, your ruling party, there are now different factions, and that you have a group of young activists working for you, the tanga tanga squad, who are now actively seeking to push your candidacy for 2022. what is going on? let me tell you, jubilee is focused. the last five years, we did a tremendous job. these five years, we will do even better. and, for your information, we are focused. what you read there is stories, newspaper stories, people trying to sell newspapers using fake headlines, fake news. but, with respect, it is not stories. and, for your information, all that has no basis at all.
12:52 am
it is not stories when the president himself said very recently of the next candidate for the ruling party for president — he said the public willjudge the potential candidates for president in 2022 based on their policies, rather than any political party affiliation, or where in the country they come from. in fact, it does look that, given that he has just appointed the interior minister to chair the key committee supervising the government's big ambitions, as though you have been sidelined. those "sidelined" stories are stories that have no basis at all. the functions of deputy president... but you have been sidelined. the functions of the deputy president are in the constitution. the president and i agreed on how we're going to make government much more efficient, and to deliver. his committee has been instructed to supervise all the key government projects and ambitions — not you, him. his committee is a cabinet committee. that committee reports to the president and myself. how on earth can you talk about sidelining, if the same
12:53 am
committee ultimately reports to the president and myself? we remember the political violence, the ethnic and tribal violence that came in 2007 and 2008, when frankly kenya was close to tearing itself apart, because there were leaders who were representing their factions and their tribe rather than the national interest. with all of this factionalism and jockeying for position that i have just discussed with you, isn't there a danger that kenya will fall back into that very dangerous situation? for your information, jubilee party is made on the firm and strong foundation that we will never go to personality cults, ethnic politics, and tribal groupings. and that is why thejubilee party —
12:54 am
for your information, it is not for me, or indeed any other person, to decide who becomes the candidate forjubilee in 2022. it will be the party, under the chairmanship of uhuru kenyatta as the party leader. but we will agree on who to offer up for the leadership of kenya. for your information, we are encouraging our competitors, who continue to be in factional parties, to assemble themselves into a national political party that can take on jubilee, which is a national political party. our philosophy, between president uhuru kenyatta, myself and the jubilee administration, is to make sure that we assemble a national political party that will take the country to the next level, and avoid the pitfalls of the past, where politics was around personalities, around ethnicities. politics must be about issues,
12:55 am
about programmes, about taking the country forward. william ruto, we have to end there, but thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you very much, sackur. hello there. on tuesday the temperature reached 1a degrees in northern ireland. the rest of this week is going to stay very mild. high—pressure essentially in charge so not much rain. the high is centred towards the south—east of the uk. it is coming from a long way south which is why it is so mild. the high is centred
12:56 am
towards the south—east of the uk. it is coming from a long way south which is why it is so mild. winds tending to push away most of the rain but we do have more cloud around so it is not as cold. the cloud continues to be thick enough to bring rain and drizzle across scotland pushing its way northwards. typically 6—7d. most places starting cloudy. rain and drizzle, mainly for scotland. damp in the north—west of scotland. sunshine arriving across east wales, southern england and east anglia. the winds are lighter, towards the north—west of the uk with more cloud, the winds are stronger. those temperatures are similar to what we had on tuesday. overnight, we will see more winds and more cloud. another weak weather front on the top of scotland. a little cooler with temperatures around 3—4d. as we head into thursday,
12:57 am
we are going to find those strong south, south—west winds. drawing air from the near continent, that means more sunshine more widely on thursday. still some cloud to greet the day across northern scotland. cloud breaking up, some pockets through the irish sea but a lot of sunshine around. still quite breezy, very mild. temperatures around 15 degrees around the moray firth. and 13 degrees in other areas. high—pressure close by. these weather fronts trying to move in but, as they arrived, they are weakening and slowing down. the far north—western scotland and perhaps northern ireland could see some rain later in the day otherwise
12:58 am
of sunshine around and still those south south—west winds so another mild date with temperatures of 11 — 12 degrees celsius. goodbye. this is newsday on the bbc. i'm rico hizon in singapore. the headlines: one of the most powerful drug cartel leaders in history, joaquin "el chapo" guzman, is found guilty on all counts at his trafficking trial in the us. australia announces the reopening of a controversial immigration detention centre on christmas island. i'm kasia madera in london. also in the programme: opposition protesters take to the streets of venezuela, but president maduro tells the bbc there's no humanitarian crisis in his country, and takes aim at america. translation: i believe that the extremist sector of the white supremacists of the ku klux klan is in charge
61 Views
1 Favorite
IN COLLECTIONS
BBC News Television Archive Television Archive News Search ServiceUploaded by TV Archive on