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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  February 13, 2019 4:30am-5:01am GMT

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at his drugs trial in the united states. guzman was convicted on numerous counts including the distribution of cocaine and heroin, illegal firearms possession and money laundering. thousands of supporters of the venezuelan opposition leader, juan guaido, have staged an anti poverty rally in the centre of the capital, caracas. the president, nicolas maduro, has told the bbc there is no humanitarian crisis. he also promised to defend the nation against the threat of a us military invasion. the trial of 12 catalan separatists accused of rebellion and sedition against spain has begun in madrid. they were arrested after a banned referendum in 2017 and an attempt to declare catalonia independent. the offences carry a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison. it is about 4:30am in the morning, you are up—to—date on the headlines.
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it is time now for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i am stephen sackur. this is suburban florida, peaceful, prosperous, seemingly at ease with itself. but the truth is no corner of america is immune from gun violence, least of all florida, whichjust one year ago gun violence, least of all florida, which just one year ago saw an horrific high school shooting which left 14 horrific high school shooting which left 1a students and three members of staff dared. i left 14 students and three members of staff dared. i have come here to meet cameron kasky. he survived that shooting and he went on to found a remarkable student movement committed to taking on america's gun lobby. but one year on, has anything really changed 7 lobby. but one year on, has anything
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really changed? cameron kasky, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for having me. it is pretty much one year since you were part of the traumatic events at the high school in parkland. how are you today? todayit in parkland. how are you today? today it is a mixed bag. i am an 18—year—old boy who is like any 18—year—old boy who is like any 18—year—old boy, dealing with the trappings of being a teenager. i struggle with depression, anxiety. very normal things. issues that are ha rd to very normal things. issues that are hard to talk about. do you struggle with ptsd? i mean is their trauma that came out of what you went through that is still with you?” think i wouldn't call it trauma, i would call it a moral ambiguity
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behind everything, because after the shooting i found myself behind everything, because after the shooting ifound myself on television almost 24/7 for a month oi’ television almost 24/7 for a month or two, television almost 24/7 for a month ortwo, andi television almost 24/7 for a month ortwo, and ifound television almost 24/7 for a month or two, and ifound myself skyrocketed to this position were so many people were looking at what i had to say and were listening to me. and this was only weeks after the shooting that i found myself at this point with my platform. so i find myself asking the question, was it all worth it? what makes me so special? why should i have been somebody who was able to reach all these people? and that is difficult, but i certainly don't have any trauma from the shooting itself. i was over 100 yards away from the shooting. i was not in any physical danger. that is why i hate when people call me a victim or a survivor. i mean there are a young people who go to school every day right now and saw their classmates die. ididn‘t right now and saw their classmates die. i didn't see anyone die. you are very frank saying listen, i was quite a long way from where the shooter was. i am
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quite a long way from where the shooter was. iam not quite a long way from where the shooter was. i am not a victim. and yet it must have an impact upon you. you were 17 years old and you knew that people who died, at least many of them, and one of them are teacher scott beagle was someone you have been close to. yes, and at the time when the shooting broke out i had no idea who was involved, i mean, until hours after the shooting would know how many people were killed. i went home thinking it was either two or 50, we truly have no idea and i saw videos of people in the room who we re videos of people in the room who were killed, they were on snapchat, people were saying, yo, my school got shot up, clearly they were not in grammarclass. got shot up, clearly they were not in grammar class. and during the shooting itself i had such a horrible peace because, despite the fa ct horrible peace because, despite the fact that i felt like i was in danger, we had no idea where the shooter was, despite the fact that i didn't know if i had lost any
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friends, i knew what was happening, i knew it was a mass shooting, and this is the united states. it is one of our national... it is one of the things you remember the united states by. we are the country baseball and the founding fathers and mass shootings. so it was very familiar to me. i grew up with these. i was born in 2000 which was not long at all after columbine. and since then there was the shooting in aurora, sandy hook elementary, vegas, we knew these shooting. you make a very strong point. we are familiar with mass shootings. we are even familiar with mass shootings in schools. the difference, and you are pa rt schools. the difference, and you are part of this difference, is that within hours of the shooting at parkland there were kids including yourself who sat down and thought, we are going to respond to this by doing something, by being active. just explain to me how it was that so just explain to me how it was that
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so quickly after getting home on that very day, february 14, 2018, you and a few friends decided that there was stuff you're going to do. so what happened the night was i found myself frantically facebook posting. it was what i knew how to do. iam posting. it was what i knew how to do. i am 18 years old, what do i know how to do except use social media? that know how to do except use social media ? that is know how to do except use social media? that is like my only skill and i'm not even particularly great at it but i found myself frantically posting things on facebook and suddenly it went viral. and i am like how could that be? i am just some kid. and the next morning i was getting all these calls from reporters and i noticed several of my other friend had reporters and i noticed several of my otherfriend had been doing reporters and i noticed several of my other friend had been doing this as well. and that day i said we need to flip this narrative. after all these shootings you see such similar things, you see crying mothers talking about their children. you see people talking about how the shooter was just a see people talking about how the shooter wasjust a nice boy, misunderstood, with only a few exceptions so many of the shooting had the same exact response. a couple of lawmakers would get kids
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to say something, they would sign a bill that said nothing and we would be done. and i said we can't have parkland be that city. mind you there is plenty of room for crying, plenty of room for people talking about the horrible tragedy of loss. i understand that. but your focus was on the anger. i wanted it to be that 20 years after the shooting when people thought of parkland they didn't think of people crying they thought people in the worst possible situation standing up and standing for something that was bigger than them. so while we haven't gotten all of the legislative victories he won with gun control, we have got very few actually, at the end of the day there is a victory in the sense that parkland is not the city that you think of and you instantly think of people mourning and people running away from the problem. i think when people hear the word parkland they think of something larger and stronger than the shooter. i think in many ways the greatest thing parkland did was that it was stronger than anyone who could try to attack it. i think one of the things people remember from
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to attack it. i think one of the things people rememberfrom parkland that didn't happen in so many of the other school shootings and mass shootings was the sense of putting politicians on the spot, direct confrontation. now again you were central to that, because less than a week after the shooting on february 14 you were on national news tv standing up, literally standing up next to a florida senator, marco rubio, asking him direct, will you tell us here and now that you will ta ke tell us here and now that you will take no more funds from the national rifle association. you as a kid then of 17 were putting the senator on the spot in a way that nobody else had. i think that in many ways my confrontation of senator rubio was very positive in the sense that it reminded a lot of people my age that politicians are just like anybody else. they are not these deities we need to look up to as if they are supreme need to look up to as if they are supreme leaders, these are
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individuals who are elected at offers and they have a job to represent the people of their state. and you know senator rubio represents a state where two of the largest shootings in american history happened within two years. the pulse shooting and the shooting at stoneman douglas happened in marco rubio's state. do you think it went too far? i am just looking out at things you said. for example one quote from you, our lawmakers, you said, rick scott and the deed marco rubio, rick scott being the governor at the time, they have the blood of the 17 people, the dead people from the 17 people, the dead people from the parkland shooting on their hands. that is sensationalist, that is not fair. you said it. i understand that i said it, i set it ina very understand that i said it, i set it in a very emotional way. mind you i think these people have no place in office. i think you do shootings like this and a lack action governor scott and senator rubio, senator scott and senator rubio, senator scott now, these individuals have not shown the qualities of somebody
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who stands for florida. but i don't think that these people who want to kill people. i don't think these are people who look at the murders of other human beings and treat like it's nothing. so, you know, ithink what happened with the parkland shooting is so much a reflection of american politics right now. i think that it showed that young people standing up and advocating for something that they believed in is such a powerful and amazing force for change, but i also think it showed that sometimes how we feel about things can get in the way of oui’ about things can get in the way of our objective thinking. it is interesting the role of emotion and the impact it had upon you and again iamso the impact it had upon you and again i am so mindful of everything you have just been through, your age as well because 17 at the time, and within a month or two, going from the february shooting through to march now, you were there in washington, dc at the head of this march for our lives movement, which drew hundreds of thousands of predominantly young people to the
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nation's capital to call for serious, meaningful gun control. and againi serious, meaningful gun control. and again i am so taken by some of the things you said at the time. you spokein things you said at the time. you spoke in the name of the people for example. you said that people now demand a ban of assault weapons. the people them and we prohibit the sale of high—capacity magazine. the people demand universal background checks. stand with us or beware. you set it in front of this huge crowd. because we, the voters, are coming. it was extraordinary, what you did. i think one of the most effective things about the gun—control movement is that the average person in this country, if you ask them, if you show them and ar—15... in this country, if you ask them, if you show them and ar-15. .. assault rifles to delegates, semiautomatic long rifle and you say, does any individual need this, they are going to say no. i think there are trend tremendous amount of people living with only gun—control. and a lot of the people i don't think think that
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ina the people i don't think think that in a malicious way. i think they think they have individual liberty to own these firearms. but i think that the overwhelming majority of people in our country think that we asa people in our country think that we as a society have moved past a lot of these weapons. i think that we don't have redcoats and bears coming to our door any more so the laws written back when that was an issue might need to be looked at again. but you know better than i that the second amendment of the us constitution, the right to bear arms, isjust constitution, the right to bear arms, is just woven so deep into the american psyche. i don't want to... you appear to be taking that on, you appear to be saying i do not accept this fundamental principle of american culture and life. sure, i don't want to scare you we are 20 feet away from several guns. they are all locked up in a safe in the barrage. i don't know if you saw it. they are your dad's gums? not my gums, my father's guns, he was a police officer, reserve. i think the second amendment is a great thing in
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the country. i think if someone is going to come into my house that is much larger than i am and threaten my family much larger than i am and threaten myfamily and much larger than i am and threaten my family and i have the ability to ta ke my family and i have the ability to take a little instrument and be stronger than they are, that is terrific. so what i guess i am saying is if you personally cameron kasky believe in the second amendment and you recognise the value of personal firearms, do you think, and we have talked about the emotion in your heart in your —— at the time, do you think you went too far, you failed to bring a hugejunk of america with you in this message you were sending out? well i don't think any other policy points that i advocated for our controversial in the sense that i think that most people absolutely could get behind them. i mean if you look at the percentage of people in this country who support connor brandt to background check legislation it is over welling, it is over 95% from what i have read —— overwhelming. now how many people understand what comprehensive background checks are, probably comprehensive background checks are, pro ba bly less comprehensive background checks are, probably less than 95%, probably significantly less. but i think that
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the people who did not want to be pa rt the people who did not want to be part of the movement for gun—control we re part of the movement for gun—control were never going to be. what we had in response to that huge march, and let's not forget hundreds of thousands of young people joined the sort of classroom excerpt strategy that you had for a while. the walkouts. the walkouts where kids would gather to again demand meaningful gun—control —— exit. it was a huge thing and it captured the spirit of the time post parkland but it also generated a backlash, the national rifle association made videos suggesting that you are com pletely videos suggesting that you are completely wrong and misguided. there were conservative people on tv and radio slamming you. some of them in the most extreme ways, going very personalfor in the most extreme ways, going very personal for you in the most extreme ways, going very personalfor you and in the most extreme ways, going very personal for you and some of the other leaders of your movement. there were even suggestions that you we re there were even suggestions that you were stooges, that you were somehow paid actors or puppets of liberal forces. how bad did it get?
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i have to tell you, there were many cases where it got so astronomically funny that we didn't know what to do when we were watching it. some of the most hilarious stuff either the scene. there were several theories that my older brother was actually me, they took it picture of him and said, cameron kasky actually graduated in 2016. some of the stuff they put out is hilarious. you say hilarious but was it not frightening? i grew up in the social media age. i know there are total psychopaths out there who will do anything slightly get by train myself to find it objectively funny which are mostly was, i can get a kick out of it. it seems to me, to coina kick out of it. it seems to me, to coin a cliche, you've been on an extraordinary journey coin a cliche, you've been on an extraordinaryjourney in the past year that it made some decisions which reflect changing yourself. for example, having led the march for
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0ur example, having led the march for our lives movement, from the february shooting through the summer, by september 2018, you decided you needed to walk away from it and you talked about the degree to which you regretted some of the decisions you'd taken.” to which you regretted some of the decisions you'd taken. i don't think those were any organisational decisions. here and there, as part of ——as part of march for our lives, i make regret working with somebody, no more than it was a waste of time, some organisations reached out to us which were not that helpful but that things are regretted were all on a personal level. that was blatantly taken out of context by a lot of right—wing pundits who want to say, see, this whole thing was a regret. i regret it the name of the shooter to senator rubio and saying i can't look at him without seeing a shooter. that's not true. my confrontation with rubio was positive in that it made a lot of people less afraid of our lawmakers
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but going about it, i did it in such a vitriolic way, i didn't find it very, very, iwould a vitriolic way, i didn't find it very, very, i would say, a vitriolic way, i didn't find it very, very, iwould say, meaningful and productive. iwas very, very, iwould say, meaningful and productive. i was emotionally charged. seven days ago, my school was shot up. it was entirely understandable. without sounding like a psychiatrist, do you think your frenzy of political activism and campaigning in the months after the shooting was your way of coping and maybe avoiding some of the deeper personal pain? 0h, absolutely. so many people got politically involved because, well, what were we going to do? everybody felt helpless. the second we saw something, second we saw this change that was possible, we said, if we can do this, we will feel better. i don't know, i think that a lot of people, it caught up with them. it caught up with me. i tried to push
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everything away for so long and it got to me and all of the mistakes i have made along the wayjust as a human being, a human being struggling with different mental health issues, i looked back and only within weeks, this was not september, this was january, i look back at everything and say, i spent so long feeling like i was an avatar, feeling like my body was saying things, my mind was just cut off. putting on a front, really. i spent so long in front of cameras that i forgot how to be a person. and i think that will always happen, i will never fully come back from that. do you think you got sucked into the notion of being on a national stage, being somebody with a huge twitter and social media following, appearing on twitter
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for—7 news channels ——20 four seve nths for—7 news channels ——20 four sevenths news channels. was that seductive? the public profile was an seductive, the fact that i could make gun control happen was seductive and i thought i could become the person who could make it happen, as if it was me. but that was a large push the legislative change, i had this almost messiah — like concept that i could do this andi like concept that i could do this and i got so high off the bat, not literally, so figuratively high off the concept, what if i could do this? in many ways, that ambition was such a great fuel for encouraging others to bring change and that was such a positive way to make other people do things and to make other people do things and to make our country mobilised towards gun control but it drove me insane. i kept on thinking of the word "i"
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and not "we". i was thinking of cameron all day. the truth is not a have changed in terms of america's attitude to gun control.” have changed in terms of america's attitude to gun control. i disagree. i think that that that that i do ee, i think that that that that i do agree, we've done a lot, were done great things but in new york there we re great things but in new york there were terrific laws passed that a very substantial and will save a lot of people's lives but i think that the thing that march for our lives did to this country was, we told a whole generation of kids, we need to start working together and thinking and just because we are little, does not mean we are inadequate when it comes to being part of the conversation. i find that so interesting because clearly, in the reaction to what you did, there were some people, and particularly that has to be set on the conservative right were very much on the same page as the nra, who spoke but as young people who couldn't possibly be agents for yourselves for change, you must have been controlled by
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other your parents or by liberal advocacy groups and guess what you showed is that particularly in the age of social media, young people do have agency, they actually have a means to get a message out there for themselves and of themselves. you we re themselves and of themselves. you were a real interesting example of what now young people can do and achieve. i hope. i mean, i don't know how much i personally achieved. i know that i was part of something that really shook the country and in many ways the world but i think something that a lot of people can learn from me at least, just from cameron, my own mistakes in my own journey, is that everything you'll ever do that is positive, anything good that will ever happen, anything good that will ever happen, anything good you will ever make happen, it is going to be because of the people around you and you are as good as
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your surroundings. if you have people around you who look after you and make the best view, which in many ways i did, you are going to succeed. if you have people who are vitriolic and so spiteful towards you, which i also did, you are going to fail. you are here you surround yourself with and you need to be somebody that people want to be around, somebody who lifts others up and is positive towards other people because it's not about you. one way in which it seems you have learned in the course of this past year he is, you've learned about people in america you would never in your previous five have had any contact with. i'm thinking of, for example, the bus to you took around parts of this nation including texas where you met gunowners, very committed to the guns in a way perhaps you hadn't come across before. it seems, far from the confrontational stance you took in the weeks and months after the shooting when you are full of
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emotion, now your goal seems to be sort of build bridges and to reach out more. would that be correct? i think the more and more you think about how right you are and how wrong everybody else is, the less you will learn. a lot of people in this ——in this country get stuck in these bubbles especially because of social media where if you surround yourself with enough who share your thoughts you get this holier than thoughts you get this holier than thou complex where you are right, totally right and anyone who is wrong is a bad person. iam totally right and anyone who is wrong is a bad person. i am very pro— gun control, we need to control guns. people don't like to say gun control because the right took it over and made it to intense but i share the principle that if something is out of control, you should control it and guns are out of control. when are we —— when i am with like—minded people and we talk about how great gun control is, you start to think, if you don't think this, you must be a really bad person and then i met these people andi person and then i met these people and i said, they are not bad people.
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i don't think they are right and the way they look at the country and the world does not align with my own views but these are people who want to hurt others. these are people who are wrong. and i'm wrong about a lot of things. i spend a lot of time being wrong, is one of my favourite hobbies so if i vilify half the people in this country, where is that going to bring me? i think there is so much more that we can do if we all look at each other and say, well, where can we agree? because that's normally wear the most progress is made. apra three, thank you very much for being on hardtalk. they give having me. -- cameron kasky. —— thank you for having me. hello there. on tuesday the temperature reached
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14 degrees in northern ireland, actually at giant's causeway. and over the next few days, the rest of this week it is going to stay very mild everywhere. with high—pressure essentially in charge, there will not be much rain around at all. the high is centred towards the south—east of the uk. so this is where our air is coming from around the high, from a long way south, which is why it is so mild. those winds are tending to push away most of the rain although, having said that, we do have more cloud around at the moment so it is not as cold. the cloud continues to be thick enough to bring some rain and drizzle across scotland, pushing its way northwards. the cloud continues to be thick enough to bring some rain and drizzle across scotland, pushing its way northwards. these are the temperatures we're looking at towards the end of the night, so typically 6 or 7 degrees. on wednesday, most places will start rather cloudy. there'll be some further rain and drizzle, mainly for scotland, heading away from the northern isles. still a bit damp for a while in the north—west of scotland. with the cloud breaking and some sunshine arriving in the moray firth, aberdeenshire and more widely across east wales, the midlands, southern england and east anglia.
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here the winds are lighter. towards the north—west of the uk where we've got more cloud, the winds are stronger. for all of us it is a south or south—westerly wind so for all of us it's mild. those temperatures very similar to what we had on tuesday. 0vernight, we will probably see some stronger winds for the northern half of the uk and a bit more cloud around too. another weak weather front topples into the north—west of scotland. more breaks in the cloud, more widely across england and wales. it will be a little cooler, temperatures around 3—4 degrees. as we head into thursday, we are going to find those strong south, south—west winds pushing away that weather front. and we're actually going to draw in our airfrom the near continent, drier air as well so that means more sunshine, more widely on thursday. still some cloud to greet the day across northern scotland. any rain soon gets pushed away. then the cloud breaks up. some pockets of cloud through the irish sea, but a lot of sunshine around on thursday. still quite breezy, very mild.
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temperatures could get to 15 degrees around the moray firth. easily 13 or 14 in many other areas as well. so an exceptionally mild day — it should be around 7 or 8 degrees at this time of the year. towards the end of the week, we've still got high—pressure close by. these weather fronts are trying to move in to that but, as they arrive, they are weakening and they're slowing down as well. so it's really the far north—west of scotland, perhaps northern ireland, that could see some rain later on in the day, but otherwise there's going to be plenty of sunshine around. we've still got those south to south—west winds so another very mild day with temperatures of 11 or 12 celsius. goodbye. this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock. our top story: grounded — a 24—hour strike by belgium's air traffic control officers stops all flights in and out of the country. public anger over the case of a russian woman under house arrest for alleged links to protest groups. eu citizens in britain. we hear how the uncertainty over brexit is leaving them feeling vulnerable.
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british firms say they are at risk of being hung out to dry if the uk leaves the eu without a deal, with many key questions still unresolved. markets get a boost as president trump says he might let his deadline for a trade deal with china slip. so could an end to the trade war be in sight?
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