hello there. what a difference a year makes. this is the briefing, i‘m sally bundock. our top story: this time last year, at this year's oscars. the end of february 2018, it was something of an upset we were feeling the effect of the ‘beast from the east‘, pulling off an oscars upset — as the favourite for the coldest mass of air to affect green book is named best picture the award was roma. at this year‘s academy awards. elsewhere, britain's olivia colman the uk in a number of years. was named best actress. rami malek was named best actor it brought widespread cold, widespread snow and widespread disruption. for his part in bohemian rhapsody. fast forward to 2019, venezuelan soldiers who defected to colombia tell the bbc they‘re pope francis has condemned priests things could not be more different. worried about the safety guilty of child sexual abuse, our air not coming from the east, of theirfamilies. calling them ‘tools of satan', instead we are bringing it up and promised to do more from the south—west and, seeking sanctuary, but is botswana to protect children. rather than exceptional cold, the safe refuge for elephants that speaking at the end this has brought exceptional warmth through the weekend. some have claimed? of the roman catholic conference on sunday afternoon, on paedophilia within the clergy, parts of west wales got up to 19.1 he said victims degrees, provisionally coming up in the business briefing, that is a new record for wales "substantial progress" — would now be the priority. in february and there that‘s how us president donald trump is soem more to come. venezuelan soldiers who defected certainly for the next few days. describes negotiations with beijing to colombia on saturday say as he delays further trade tariffs. some warm sunshine, they fear for the safety but with some frosty nights of their families under and some foggy mornings. only slowly, later in the week, president nicolas will it start to turn a bit more maduro‘s government. one officer told the bbc that forces unsettled but not particularly cold. we will start off monday morning loyal to mr maduro could lash out though on quite a chilly note, at his family because he had heeded particularly down towards in the south. temperatures below freezing. well below freezing the opposition‘s call to defect. in one or two places. not as cold across north—west scotland because we‘ve got more those are the headlines. cloud, some patchy rain, and just about any weather — could be some mistiness aaround, but some fog patches most likely through parts of yorkshire and up into north—east england.

where the fog does develops, it could be quite dense, it's liz30am. could be quite slow to clear as well. that's it for me. but through monday, most of us enjoying blue skies and sunshine now on bbc news, once again, apart from the far north it's time for hardtalk. of scotland where there will be welcome to hardtalk cloud and outbreaks of rain. with me, zeinab badawi. but look at the temperatures. does comedy have the power widely between 1a and 18 degrees. to transcend borders, one or two spots religions and politics? could hit 19 degrees. nine would be more typical and can it build bridges for this time of year. between different communities it is, of course, all because of high pressure who may mistrust still sitting just to and misunderstand one another? the south—east of the uk. not many white lines, well, my guest today thinks so. not many isobars on that chart. light winds to take us he's one of the arab world's into tuesday morning. most popular comedians, perhaps a touch of frost but, again, nemr abou nassar. for most a sunny day. a bit more cloud for a time brought up in the united states into northern ireland. and lebanon, he quit hisjob as an insurance broker maybe the odd spot of rain into north—west scotland, to become a stand—up comic. otherwise it is dry he believes humour and still exceptionally warm for the time of year. can change the world. as we get into wednesday, it looks like we‘ll see a bit more but does he risk promoting misunderstanding fog developing at this stage. and perpetuating stereotypes so it could be a foggy, murky start on wednesday morning. through his comedy? much of that should tend to cleear through the day. some patches might linger for a good part of wednesday. but again, in the sunshine, it will feel warm. things start to change though, a little bit on thursday. a bit of a pincer movement, one little weather system tries to push in towards the south.

one frontal system towards the north so that brings the potential for rain for some of us on thursday, certainly not all of us. but there is an increasing chance of rain, some breezy weather too, 00:02:09,580 --> 2147483051:37:49,505 and it turns a bit cooler as we head 2147483051:37:49,505 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 towards the weekend. nemr abou nassar, welcome to hardtalk. thank you so much for having me. so there you were, at the age of five in united states, watching television and you decided there and then that you wanted to be either be a stand—up comedian or a ninja turtle. yes. why not a ninja turtle? well, the stem cell research is not where it should be. and, ah, for religious reasons, i think a lot of people have opposed it. so i haven't given up hope yet. i'm using stand—up comedy to finance the ninja turtle dream. all right. fingers crossed. we'll see what happens. so, you're lebanese american... yes. ..yourfamily moved to san diego when you were two years of age because of the civil war at the time in lebanon. and you went back to lebanon when you were ten years of age. how important is this

dual identity to you as a comic? it's — it's everything... i think it gives me the only reason that i'm worth watching, really. it gave me that perspective. because i have — i'm equal parts lebanese as i am equal parts american. i think they're two very interesting lives to live. you know, when you grow up in america, everything's given to you. there's stability, there's, you know, an infrastructure that's nurturing for a child to grow up in a very secure and safe environment, and then you take that child and you transport him into a post—civil war lebanon and it's the polar opposite. you know, there is no infrastructure — neither for children or anyone at the time we got there. it was after the civil war. so you go from having a school where you had an ocean view and everything was nice and there were birds and everything to a country that has ocean views, but there are bullet holes everywhere and stuff. so, it was a jarring experience. and so, is that what made you, to use your own words, a "purpose—driven comedian" ? and you want to actually build bridges between communities, the arab world

and the non—arab world. for me, i think the reason that it morphed into that is because i have had perfect harmony between my american and arab side. i've never found that there is anything that couldn't be harmonious between the two. so, when i see the lack of harmony between those two sides of the world it surprises me and i feel that using my comedy, i can easily reflect the harmony i have and bring them together. so, why not? but to be honest, do you think that harmony that you expressed you have and being at ease in american society is to do with the fact that you are a christian arab? i don't think so. because nobody in america thinks i'm christian. everybody in america presumes that i'm muslim. so, any time i do tv or radio or whatever, they end up asking me questions as a muslim. and i end up answering without telling them i'm christian until the very end. and then, usually, because they'll be saying something critical of islam, and i'll keep answering, and then at the end, once they're convinced and the argument has been won, for lack of a better term, i then tell them, by the way, i'm christian. and they usually say, "why didn't you tell us earlier?" and i say, "i didn't want

that to be the reason, ah, you would believe me." so, it's — it's... what — you think they would look upon you less favourably or...? no, no, if somebody is asking me a question about islam and i say, "well, first of all, i'm a christian," i kind of feel like that's me saying, like, oh, i don't want you to associate me with islam, which i wouldn't mind. i would be more than proud to be associated with any religion. but, i think... ‘cause your fiancee is, infact, muslim. she's muslim, yeah. you know, in lebanon, we've killed each other for so long. and nobody won anything. and i think we realised that it's not working. so there is also a harmony... nobody cares anymore. it's not about what religion you are, it's about who you are. you know, your religion doesn't define you. it's what you do as a religious person or not that defines you. so, that realisation comes to me naturally. it's just when you say you want to promote greater understanding and you have said arabs have not been able to export our culture effectively... our culture, no, we haven't. ..to the west, but so much of that arab culture in so many people's

minds now, both in the arab world and outside, has a lot to do with islam, hasn't it? well, it does. but i think the beauty of arab culture doesn't have to do with religion. i think religion is a reflection of arab culture. that's what i've always thought. but what is arab culture? i mean, lebanon... hospitality. ..you see women wearing bathing suits on the beach. yeah. in parts of the gulf, you see them covered up. i mean, what is arab culture then? is there a uniform one? no. arab culture, for me, isn't a language, because i speak english fluently. we have people who speak arabic only, people who speak english, and we are all of the same habits and customs. i think that the culture isn't a language, it isn't a religion. what it is is a hospitality. for me, i have always defined arabs as people who, when you walk into their home, it becomes your home. people who will always do something to make you feel at ease. if they're eating, you mustjoin us for a meal. for me, these are the things that have always been distinctive.

well, what else is there? we know that generosity, hospitality is a great virtue in the arab culture. for me, i like the old—school arab culture of honour and nobility and there was... pre—is and isis and all of this kind of stuff when this was what we were branded as. when i first went to lebanon from america, i was surprised at the spirit of the people. the arab spirit is a spirit that refuses to be dominated, it refuses to be shut down. and in lebanon, i always defined lebanese people as people who, no matter how hard you push them down, they still would not collapse. and i think that's something that defines what an arab is. but a lot of people now, rightly or wrongly, define being arab as being muslim and, unfortunately, there is a tiny minority amongst the muslims who, of course, carry out acts of terror. yeah, of course. and that, for many people, has become the defining feature... yeah. ..of what being an arab is. and i blame arabs for that. and i do that unapologetically.

we don't push back. you see, in america, you have timothy mcveigh, you got a bunch of white people who blow buildings up, who commit mass murders, who... and more people in the united states have died under... much more, much more. ..in such acts. however, it doesn't — they don't get branded under that. what we have a problem with, as an arab society, and that's what you were just mentioning earlier that i said, is that we don't export our culture today. ah, obviously, our culture is exporting mathematics, sciences, our contributions cannot be denied, but nobody knows that. so, we have a problem when some extremism comes out, we don't have an effective way of addressing it. we don't have a seinfeld. we don't have... you're talking aboutjerry seinfeld? i mean the show. oh, the show. yeah, yeah, yeah. we don't have a friends, we don't have movies that are coming out that get people to love arab culture the way arabs love american culture — in the movies and so on. one way you think that you can tackle this is that you use jokes about is, the so—called islamic state, or isis, in your repertoire. yes. is there anything funny about is, isis? oh, my god, oof...

first of all, comedy is such a powerful weapon in the biggest war going on in the world today, which is the war of narrative. i believe that the biggest war in the world today is narrative. it isn't weapons. even if you look at is, the so—called islamic state, they're winning by pushing an ideology — or losing — but they're basically, their battle is to push an ideology of hatred. it isn't their tactical brilliance, it's their ability to recruit people. narrative is very powerful. the most powerful weapon of narrative is comedy. if you make a joke out of isis, and in my comedy, what i do is i show the power of humour, how when three isis suicide bombers blew themselves up in lebanon, killed 56 lebanese people, the next day, the lebanese were making jokes. and that's how lebanon has handled violence. we makejokes, ‘cause we don't allow the enemy to realise... but that's jokes amongst lebanese people. but when you tell these kind ofjokes... oh, no, no... ..to a western audience, are you notjust perpetuating the stereotype of, oh, here's an arab american comedian... no... ..he‘s talking about acts of terror

and terrorists and so on, so you're just perpetuating these stereotypes. no, i'm not. i'm not. first of all, i'm making it very clear that we are subject to terrorism. when i start telling stories about isis blowing people up, it comes up as a surprise that we suffer from it. they thought we were isis. so, already, you're starting to push back against that. and then we're showing the spirit of how arabs deal with extreme situations. by making jokes, you're showing the enemy that they didn't get you. that's how you demoralise them. but what about the families of the victims of isis and all the, you know, atrocious acts, far too many to mention. yeah. you know, the wanton killing, the sexual exploitation of girls and women... of course, of course. ..and so on and so forth. i mean, do you really think that the families of these victims, if they heard yourjokes, would think they were funny? er...yeah. because i know the families of victims in lebanon have helped me write these jokes by telling me some of the jokes themselves. my show is, love isn't the answer, my latest show, is two hours long. the isis joke is just a few minutes. so, it's not the entirety of the show...

no, it's not, but... ..it‘s part of an overall message. but, you know, look, joan rivers said that soon after the tragedy of 9/11, she started making jokes about the 3,000 widows who'd lost their husbands in the attack, and she said after she had made thatjoke, she was spat at on the street and... well, i would... i've never madejokes about the victims. i've made jokes about the violent people, the isis. so, for us, thejokes... well, she talked about the families of the victims. it would help if somebody were to hear thejoke, but the joke and the context of it is how we made fun of isis by making them the joke. so, like, they're wearing flip—flops and they‘ re fighting and that kind of thing. yeah. and that makes them seem weak and they're not. i mean, they may have lost caliphate, but... are they not weak? well, they've lost the caliphate, but they're still... they lost the caliphate. they weren't able to come in to lebanon. they weren't able to come in to lebanon — and lebanon is a very weak country. so, you thinkjokes about isis, is, can actually help defeat them, genuinely? it helped in lebanon. is there any subject that

you wouldn't joke about? because there's a lot of debate, isn't there... yeah, there is. ..about how, you know, the red lines, and so on. would you joke, for example, about the prophets of islam? no, i wouldn't. why would i do that? i was wondering whether you have any lines that you draw. i don't, no. for me, i draw the line on — if a joke only works if it's clever and it's funny and it provides some kind of perspective. i'm not out to do shock comedy. you know, there's a lot of comedians today that will make jokes about religion or whatever and they're like, you know, i don't care if you get offended. for me, i care that i want you to get my message. at the end of the day, i'm trying to unite people and bring people together. so, it's not a interest to do jokes that the people in the bad light. so, you don't want to offend anybody? i don't want to offend a somebody for the sake of offending somebody. because you know that british comedian ricky gervais says offence is never given, it's taken. yeah, and he also said if you're offended, it doesn't mean you're right. yes. yeah. and i'm never go to talk about another comedian and how they do theirjokes.

but what i agree with ricky gervais is as comedians, when we put our material out there, it's for the people to take it or leave it, right. that people to get offended and you're a comic who likes to offend people, i guess that's your modus operandi. but for me, it's very important that we push people towards a certain goal. i don't think — i think political correctness has been a bit overstated. i haven't had a problem with political correctness, because when i've gone into situations i've found that maybe i should reword the joke a bit differently to get the point across. if there is a point to a joke, you're good. if you are just making the joke, you asked me if i's make fun of the prophet muhammad or say jesus, or any religious figure, i was in a show in qatar recently where a comedian madejokes about jesus and the crowd was shut down. and he came up to me after the show and he said, "i thought qatar was muslim. why weren't they laughing?" and i said, "it's not because they're pro one religion — they just don't want you to make fun of people's faiths, because that's something sacred." well, jesus is also a principle prophet of the muslims. of course, of course. but in this particular

comedian‘s ignorance, he thought that, "oh, they're muslin, i makejokes on aboutjesus, they'll applaud." so this kind of, you say that, you know, you mentioned political correctness now. and there is a debate, as i said, amongst comedians. jerry seinfeld, for example, talking to bbc, the american comedian, that college audiences have become too quick to condemn a joke as a racist or sexist. do you agree with that? i haven't had that experience. personally, i haven't. maybe your jokes are just too safe, nemr abou nassar. i highly doubt it. my material is very controversial. but the subject matters i deal with are stuff that people completely shy away from. however, ijust have a way of dealing with that, you know, i've done shows at many universities, i've done shows all over the world. i think because my purpose isn't to get the laugh, my purpose is to get the laugh with the point across. that i'm always hypersensitive to if it isn't working, why isn't it working? i don't like to push my views on people. i want people to accept my views.

if you laugh at something that i'm challenging you with and i have convinced you, that is my ultimate goal. that is the power of comedy. another comedian, nish kumarfrom comedy central, believes that an audience's outrage are sometimes justified. he says, "i don't think it's a bad thing for comics to consider the impact of the words they're choosing. and i don't think it's killing comedy." i agree. so is political correctness limiting? i don't think so, no. i don't think it's — i mean, ricky gervais... yeah. . . has his career suffered ? i don't think so, no. i mean, ricky gervais, has his career suffered ? it hasn't. comics who are worth anything, look, when people, you get into any controversy and there's political correctness — this discussion we had about is, you may say something one way, i might see something the other way, but it is not going to hurt my career because, if you are doing it for a specific purpose and you do it long enough, people start to get what you're about. political correctness, in my case, has caused me to take some words out of my act and to actually come up with even newerjokes, to kind of help facilitate somebody getting something across without them having a preordained kind of... can you give me an example to illustrate that? in terms of a word,

i used to say a word, where i had a joke, i would say, and my friend came in and he was retarded, that's what i would say, but he's thinking was retarded. coming from lebanon, "retarded" is a word from the french, "retarde", which means "late" — it doesn't have the same context of mentally challenged. i used it in america, when i was doing shows there, when i had just gone back. and somebody messaged me afterwards and said, "hey, i do not like you using that word." and i was — "loved your show but had to walk out" — i was like, what? to me it was, like, "you walked out." why? tell me why." we had a dialogue and they worked with associations, they explained to me the use of the word and i stopped using it. it wasn't necessary for my humour... like "schizophrenic" is another one that people just use. i never use that but "retarded" what i was trying to say which was this guy was really stupid. that is how you changed... that did not hurt my act at all. and in other cases where i felt that i needed to get a joke across, i used to say a word, "pussy". so i'd say, "stop being a pussy", in my show. that word carries connotations with it. the reason that for me it's fine saying it is i understand the origin of the word, which it comes

from the word "pusillanimous", which was a word that originated in 16th century, which means ye of little courage and little faith. it was shortened to p u s s i, but now it has become bastardised. the fact that when i said it onstage got a negative reaction caused me to write a joke where i take a deep breath and i explain the whole context of "pusillanimous". then people started applauding and then i ended by saying, let it be known that an arab man brought the "pusi" back to america. donald trump tried to take it away but i'm bringing it back and if that isn't a reason to have immigrants in your country, i don't know what is, and thatjoke gets a resounding applause. you're so grateful to the word "pusillanimous"... what i'm trying to say is, were it not been for the political correct reaction that i got, but because my intent was for people to enjoy the show, i was like, i need to find a way to either make this enjoyable or i'm going to have to cut it out. so it made me a better comic. there's a way of limiting yourself, self—censorship as it were, for political correctness... i didn't see it as limiting... ..or schizophrenia or... there are things... i mean, you have to be a mature adult,

you have to be educated. if there is a word that you are using that is not necessary to the joke and your intension wasn't to offend and it turns out it's part of some other — it's not my fault... but there's also, i mean, comedians limit themselves in other ways for different reasons because of censorship which is a different thing. you perform all over the world, including saudi arabia. you were there, a legal stand—up comedian... and illegal... ..last year — and illegal before that — last year, to a mixed audience, you said it was "wonderful to see huge progress like that". "it's testament to how powerful it can be when people can come together and when stand—up comedy rises to its maximum potential". so huge plaudits from you for performing in saudi arabia but you do not say everything you want to in saudi arabia, do you? oh, my goodness, no. in saudi arabia, what's interesting, and i found to navigate the arab world, stay away from religion, which i already do, and politics, meaning the king of whichever country you're going to. the king as in the crown prince... and you can say anything you want.

why accept that kind of censorship? because, i mean, you performing in america, you can say what you want to... as an arab, i find it disrespectful to go into another country and to challenge their... but you are an arab going into an arab country and you were talking about the uniformity of the arab culture... but how boring is it to talk about politics and religion? it is the most easy, done—over subject in comedy. it is a simple scapegoat. you take a certain person and you talk about what they do wrong. it is much more difficult to talk about the society that is allowing these people to be in power, that is allowing this kind of behaviour to continue and i deal with the society... you are giving a very elaborate answer to basically the fact that you can't say what you want to say in certain countries in the arab world, like saudi arabia... (crosstalk). ..because you would be arrested. no, i do not care about being arrested.

i did the first show ever in saudi arabia stand—up comedy, i did 14 illegal showsjeddah, riyadh, before the legal thing happened, i helped bring that legal... there was a fatwa issued against you. when i did the legal show, there was a fatwa against me. the reason that i do play by those rules is, as i continued to slowly push the envelope with every show that i do, i have a responsibility towards the crowd. if i were to do a show where i was to insult the king, it's not my life that's in jeopardy. i'm an american citizen, i'd just be kicked out of the country. it's the people in the show that are in jeopardy. so i need to be careful and i have to consider — as a pioneer, as somebody who's taking the stand—up comedy scene single—handedly on his shoulders, i have to craft my way. when i first started doing shows injordan and to now doing shows injordan, and what i can say and can't say, is not only very different but other comedians can now speak about... the iranian american comedian says the reason i criticise, mazjobrani, says... oh, i love him. ..made the point, "the reason

i criticise the government here in the united states is because we can. that is why my family came from iran to america so we can do that, we have freedom of speech." you do not have that in so many arab countries and surely it is a matter of regret to you? not really because i don't — it's 5 definitely a matter of regret freedom of speech not being — forget comedy. that's your bread and butter, that's you job... even political humour in america is cheap, it is dated, it's got a time stamp. if i make a trump job today and he does not get re—elected, i cant never do thatjoke again... but you do make trump jokes. no. i thought you said you have a joke about why some arab americans favour trump is because they are tired of their relatives... ..visiting from overseas. that is what i call a throwaway joke. that's something that is fun and relative right now but my act does not centre around that. that's a faraway joke because everybody expects me, as soon as i say donald trump, to have this kind ofjoke and you come with something else. wheat i like to do is so when you are making fun of donald trump, what are you making fun of? you're making fun of the bigotry, the racism and the things that are coming out. what i do is i take the name donald trump out of the joke

and i keep everything else in. so even if i go to any country in the middle east, that's how i do it because i'm more concerned with navigating the culture of the people than navigating the culture of a dictator who's there because they got an army on their side. i don't care, it doesn't bring anything to the people. we are now seeing comedy festivals across the arab world, in dubai, injordan, there have been comedy festivals and you say you are proud now of comedy in the middle east and how it is a release for young people to vent their frustrations. but is that desirable, really, as an outlet? shouldn't they be challenging their energy into venting theirfrustration in a political way, through activism so they can effect the kind of changes that they want to see? you're serving as a conduit. that is an outstandingly good question. when stand—up comedy started changing in america, to become more of an art form,

it started with lenny bruce... a jewish comedian who died in the mid—1960s. committed suicide. he was outlawed to perform in any cities or state in america except for san francisco because of censorship. he would speak truth to power. he was taken to court, stripped of everything, ended up killing himself. he started pushing that envelope forward. after lenny bruce we george, then we had richard pryor... a freestyle form of comedy. and we started to realise the today comedy is a very powerful form of activism. in the middle east, it is such an infantile scene, that started in 1999 with one kid in aub, in beirut and you have from that, in the past 19—20 years, you have comedy clubs, a healthy way of expression, uniting people of all religions, bringing christians, muslims and jews together. if that is not activism, i do not know what is. yes, it is not at its peak and we have free speech issues but 20 years ago the issues are less now. if we do not try and improve the situation, it is never going to change. it sucks for me but we have to do what we have to do. roll up the sleeves and jump on in.

for you comedy can change the world, build bridges between different peoples and also help bring about change within countries. can i tell you how in a very simple way? if i was to put an american and arab in one room together, a bunch of americans, asians, african—american, arab—americans, from all different backgrounds, syrians, sudanese everyone in one room and they are all laughing at the same joke? what does that say? they are a lot more similar than they are led to believe and when they leave that room, after laughing together, it is going to be harderfor them to be at odds with each other. when i did my last special i filmed it in lebanon and los angeles but i did not reveal that i was cutting between the two shows. i wore the same outfit and everybody thought it was one show and the was the whole point —

it's the same energy. nemr abou nassar, thank you for coming on hardtalk. 00:25:12,935 --> 2147483051:49:21,182 thank you, this is 2147483051:49:21,182 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 so great, thank you.