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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  March 3, 2019 2:30am-3:01am GMT

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you're watching bbc news. i'm reged ahmad. our top stories: president trump attacks vowing to fight against robert mueller, saying the probe on alleged russian interference is an attempt greed, hated and lies, "to take him out". —— hatred and lies, he promised to unseat donald trump, who he termed "the most dangerous let's inspect every deal he's ever done, president in modern we're going to go into his finances, american history." we're going to check his deals, nasa and a private us space company have launched the first we're going to check... astronaut capsule from american soil in eight years. these people are sick. the craft, owned by the spacex bernie sanders kick company, is carrying a test dummy starts his campaign for the white house, to the international space station. vowing to fight against corporate greed, hatred and lies. three, two, one, zero. it's hoped flights carrying real ignition, liftoff. astronauts will start by the end of the year. paving the way for passenger travel, nasa and spacex test launch their new astronaut taxi. it's 2:30am. now on bbc news, dateline london. bushfires sweep south—east australia, as the country struggles with the hottest summer on record.
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hello, welcome to dateline london. i'm carrie gracie. and this week: the first date was love at first sight, the second date didn't go so well. "sometimes you have to walk away", said president trump, but is the world any safer after his hanoi summit with north korea's kimjong—un? and how safe is it to go home when his one—time enforcer is telling the world that the president is a racist and a cheat? here in the uk, tick—tock, tick—tock goes the clock. but with four weeks till march 29th, the prime minister mentions delay for the first time. my guests today: political commentator yasmin alibhai—brown, agnes poirier of french weekly news magazine marianne, italian filmmaker annalisa piras, and greg katz of the associated press news agency. welcome to you all. thanks so much. so, there was no deal at the end of the second summit between donald trump and kim jong—un.
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there was no return though to name—calling, no "rocket man" or "deranged dotard", it was all smiles and handshakes as they parted. but remember, the north korean leader goes back to sit at a desk on which he says he has a nuclear button commanding an arsenal of weapons that can reach anywhere in the united states. so what did the hanoi summit achieve? greg, you set us off. well, it achieved precisely nothing. it was a total failure in terms of producing any tangible progress toward denuclearisation. so clearly, it didn't accomplish anything. i'm not one of those who criticises president trump for meeting with him. the us foreign policy establishment thinks it's a mistake to go into these summits sort of without any proper or any real agenda. i don't think it does hurt anything to talk, and i think one could argue perhaps it is less of
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a confrontational situation. they have accomplished nothing, and one could argue the spectacle of the president of the united states fawning over quite a brutal dictator makes a lot of americans and a lot of people around the world quite uncomfortable. but that is his style, that is the way he does business. on him achieving nothing, they have not had ballistic tests for the last six months. to a degree, that's true. that is an argument that bears some fruit. but we are no closer to an agreement, and i don't believe that the north koreans are serious about giving up their weapons. but i am supporting, in general, the idea that it's better to have these talks than not to. annalisa? yes, absolutely. it is fair to say it was always bound to be a long and torturous and difficult process,
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so actually expecting him to come out of the summit with oh, he will shut these down, was a bit unrealistic. i would say it is a good process and a signal that north korea is feeling the weight of the sanctions and is feeling a need to do something about it. one side of it that was interesting, that did not make it to the front page of the newspapers, was that north koreans are increasing cyber attacks on american financial institutions, or western financial institutions, because they are desperate for cash. so there is a clear sense that there is a crisis going on in terms of what the sanctions have done to north korea. they are strapped and desperate for cash. all of these things mean that there probably will be more progress on the part of the north koreans. yasmin, there is a camp that says kim jong—un wins from this process, he gets to sit at the big table, present himself as an international statesman.
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or do you agree more with annalisa's that he's actually more psushed to that table? no, i don't think he allows himself to be pushed to any table. i think he is one of the world's worst, most murderous, unpredictable dictators. it's very strange to me how comfortable trump feels with men like these. he's comfortable with president putin and these men, men of a certain kind. but one mustn't forget the desperate need that has now been expressed over several years between south korea and north korea. they want things to change almost as much as the rest of us do, but for other reasons. this is about their lives, their families, their ancestral connections. so — and one of the things i'm pleased about is this is a man who says, i never fail when it comes to deal. uh—uh, he failed.
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so some of the red rust — what are they called? some of the people who love him. what is it called, the rust...? the red states? they will ask, what happened here? will they? they will, but a lot of people will sigh with relief. it was cut short by a day. you don't want leader to leader diplomacy to last very long. you don't want trump and kim alone and striking a deal between the two of them. you have no idea what's going to come out. well, unless you think that that kind of personal chemistry and trust building between two key people will make a difference. but that comes after a long time of negotiation, step—by—step approach, you know, by both administrations. ifelt sorry for mr moon from south korea, because he had put so much behind the reconciliation of the two countries, he is the one i felt sorry for.
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you also never know... trump said that north korea wanted the lifting of all sanctions. they haven't provided an inventory of the production capacities of their nuclear missiles. they haven't provided it yet. it's the fourth us president entering negotiations with north korea. and i think there will be more. is it? yes. they were the first to meet, obviously. coming back to yasmin‘s question about what trump's base thinks about all of those. he goes on to say that it was a diplomatic bright spot, he did something, he took the initiative. what are people back home going to think of hanoi? back home is very diverse and more important back home was cohen's testimony in washington.
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we'll come to that in a moment. yeah, but in hanoi, his base are seeing it as him doing something, trying to make the world safer, he did what he said he was going to do. the trump sceptics are saying, why is he buddying up to this man? he is papering over the death of an american citizen. that young man, warmbier, his young family were not impressed by president trump talking about how he believed kim jong—un that he didn't know what happened there. if the litmus test forjudging a nation's behaviour is whether donald trump believes personally the words of the other leader, then i think it's hard to know how anything will ever get accomplished or established as fact. i think americans don't buy it when he says, i understood him to be telling the truth, he says the same about vladimir putin. george w bush said famously that he'd looked into the eyes of vladimir putin and had
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seen his soul and understood him. i'm exaggerating a little bit. then george w bush came to regret that position over the years. this looking deep into the eyes of the opposite leader, i think has fallen flat. and yet, is it falling flat for his base? what does his base make of this cosying up to ruthless dictators? there is nothing that donald trump is doing that's falling flat with his base. absolutely nothing at this point. let's talk about the next big issue for donald trump back home. the line is, "he's a racist, a conman and a cheat" — that was the character reference this week from a man who once said he'd do anything to protect mr trump. but did michael cohen's testimony to congress tell americans anything about their oresident that they didn't already know, guess, or discount as lies? greg, i know you watched this, because you were ill at home and you watched all seven hours of his testimony. yes, yes, i did the whole thing.
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was it showbiz or was it something else? no, this was not showbiz. i will be brief, but this was very real, very direct, under oath. if he is found to have been lying to congress, hisjail sentence is going to go from three years in prison to ten, 15, the rest of his life in prison. this was not showbiz, this was, you know, very high—stakes and very much on the record. and what cohen did was present evidence that, he says, shows that the president was engaged in illegal activities. the ramifacations of this we just will not know for another six or 18 or 24 months. this was not for show, this was real. and annalisa, donald trump and supporters say he is a proven liar, so why are they believing anything he says, even under oath?
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that is the most tragic aspect of what otherwise could look like a farce. the moral corrosion, the kind of complete disappearance of the border between being a good man, of integrity, and being a cheat, a racist, a liar, someone who pays a porn actress. someone who's betraying his wife. so for his supporters, we are now at a stage in which it's a gang against the world. whatever their leader does, he's always their leader. it is phenomenally tragic, because american democracy has been inspiring for countries all over the world. it's interesting you say that because as you were talking, i was thinking it sounds like italian politics. some of it must be familiar to you? absolutely. you see, when the rest of the world was laughing at italy
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because of silvio berlusconi's "bunga bunga", nobody felt that there was some kind of great democratic tradition and inspiring values that were under attack. when it comes to america, and you see the indifference of the biggest majority of americans to this moral corrosion of their own democracy, that's pretty scary. one of the interesting things is it's even worse than that. i so agree with you, i mean you've put it so well. there are people there. there's a wonderful line in salman rushdie's new book, which is set in trump's america, where a character says, "we know he's all of this, we know he's a liar, we know he's a criminal, we know he's a sexist, that's why we like him. he's like one of us, he says it like it is." it's almost that the appeal of trump is that he is this morally dodgy chap,
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which is even more frightening. coming back to what greg was saying, there is a legal process under way here as well. the president's pit bull has bitten him on the bottom, and the question is, you know, what next? well, exactly, but i think there is this problem that this guy was a lair, was an operator, a middleman for the president for the longest time, you know, and even i sort of feel, do i believe him? i wish i'd watched. i want to be persuaded. the point remains, though, that there is this very important process going on, legal processes, political processes, but they seem to have no bearing whatsoever on populism, the populace of america. did you think this was sound
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and fury signifying nothing very much, or did you watch it and think this is the beginning of something? i watched it and went to somebody, because the president of the united states of america was called a bigot, cheat and con artist, we are not even shocked. this is the more shocking thing. we probably know it is true. we had lost complete trust in this man, and the institutions to a point, i think the democrats are quite right not to talk about the i word, impeachment. they're just waiting for all of these different lines of enquiries to come to an end, so that we know everything there is to know, and something is going to happen. and impeachment is so divisive, so partisan. i'm not sure it's the right way to go, and they know that. and he might, for one, be considered for tax evasion. it's is probably the only thing left that is seriously taken in the us. or obviously for collusion with russia. but facts are important.
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the last thing i would like to say is... of course, i was shocked but not so astonished by what i heard about trump, but the response from the republican party is extraordinary. yes. the cool calculation by standing by a guy they know... i mean, they are willing to overlook everything that he has done wrong and they know he's done wrong, just for tribalism, and the republican party is going to go not well. i mean it's such an ugly look for history books. and yet, greg, coming back to everything that you charted as those seven hours went by, i mean people know he's not a boy scout, as we've heard from this side of the table, and yet there's a difference between unethical behaviour and criminal behaviour. coming back to the politics, is there a point at which the republican party looks at the legal process and says, do you know what, 2020 is getting closer, should we think about another candidate? i don't think there is a point
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at which they say we are going to nominate a different candidate for the presidency. they may look when the mueller report comes in. they might say, i see evidence of criminality here, here, here, isee a pattern of criminality and i'm no longer willing to support this presidency. that is how president nixon lost his power in congress and came to the conclusion he had to resign. something similar could happen in the us, but it is nowhere near happening yet. one thing i want to say quickly, something cohen said in his last paragraph did not get much attention, but i did not hear him say it, but i saw it written down in the report. he said, in the end, i fear that if president trump loses in 2020, there will not be a peaceful transition of power. i also had that thought myself because i remember how he said he would not trust the result if he didn't win the first time around. that was chilling, that he said that. that deserves some attention, but it got lost in everything else. we will leave the trump
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discussion on that sobering thought and move closer to home. brexit needs no introduction when we're less than four weeks away... orare we? the prime minister has set out a careful list of ifs which might result in a delay. will those ifs come to pass and, if they do, what then? so, agnes, take us away on that one. i was interested by what michel barnier said in an interview he gave to spanish, german, french and italian papers yesterday. he sort of changed his tune. a week ago, he said... he was huffing and puffing and saying that an extension, what for? we need a decision. you need good reasons for an extension. yesterday, he said an extension is unavoidable, and will be granted, although he is not the one to grant it, it is the 27. that is slightly different. so it looks as though we are going there, if her deal is not voted on on the 12th
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of march, because that is another possibility and we will go back to that later. he also said some other things. the backstop will not be removed, or there won't be any time limit on it. date limit. and he said the eu is ready for no deal, which i'm not sure is the case. but, so, different language. when you say you're not sure, are you implying that this is a bargaining position as we get closer to the line? well, bargaining — the whole thing is not a bargain, because it's not something the eu wanted from the start. what i'm saying is that i doubt anybody on the continent or here is ready for no deal, because nobody knows what will happen. you'd be surprised. i was talking on television last week with nadine dorriis, an adamant leaver, who said on television, we are ready, this country is ready for a no deal exit.
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everybody is ready. honestly, there is this mad fantasy land we are living in. according to her. she is very strong for the no deal side, so... i should intervene here and say it is a mad fantasy land to you. she would say that you are a project fear person. exactly what she said! we do have to say, everybody is worried. we have had a relationship with the eu for so long, i would be surprised if they were worried about it. leaving the degree of how much people care or don't care about no deal, do you think the negotiations are going anywhere? no, i don't think so. nobody... the two parties are divided.
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the resignations say — she may... one of the cleverest ploys, theresa may's, is "if you don't agree to my deal, it is no deal." that one is playing even amongst those who are very pro—eu. but i think the numbers don't add up. the numbers and the time are too short now. greg? what you are calling theresa may's ploy, she may be able to get together a deal that gets enough support to pass by two or three votes. i do think that's possible, and people at the ap also agree. it is this implied threat that if you don't do this you might go off the cliff, and there will be no connection between calais and dover, and good luck getting fresh fruit and vegetables. it is an element of project fear.
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i did not hear what michel barnier said, but in general the tone from europe in the last 14 days has been harsher and a bit more exasperated, why in the world can't the british agree on anything? also what you said earlier about what happens with those who will not agree with anything? nigel farage is now threatening a march. promising a march. promising, i think it's a threat. if he pulls that off, which he could, he is a big influencer, one of the biggest in this country. there will be an after—shock to whatever the decision is. we're in a really bad place. so, just dealing with the parliamentary arithmetic. we've heard that the prime minister may be using the threat of no deal to get people into line behind her deal. the other stick that she could use to get the brexit supporters into line is the threat of a delay,
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hence the talk of delay? yes, but all of these tactics are not working. so it's hard to see how they will finally kind of work closer to the 29th of march deadline. i think it's more likely that an extension of article 50 will be granted because, at the end of the day, apart from the gesticulations and announcements, the reality is that nobody is ready for brexit. reality will hit hard the closer we get to the 29th of march. what would the extension be for? well, that is the big question. the 27 are ready to grant an extension as long as there is good reason for it. it is not for theresa may to keep kicking the can down the road, that is clear. it will need to be substantial
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reasoning and preparation for the extension. what would be realistic would be for theresa may to say, let's give ourselves one yearfor a deal, or for a second referendum, putting the deal, whatever that deal would look like, to the people and trying to reconcile this country, which has been split in the middle for too long. she has said again and again she would not agree to a second referendum. she might not, but she might be forced to. let's talk about labour, because obviously this weekend there are huge ructions about anti—semitism within the labour party. however, over the past few days, we have seen white smoke coming out of the top leaders, about letting that deal through, in order that they can go to a ratification referendum. do you believe that? no, i don't believe that and i don't think that jeremy corbyn,
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who is a brexit supporter, is being sincere about this. he is playing games like theresa may. nobody is being sincere. it is about keeping the party and each party going and winning, or whatever. if we had a more coherent position on what the opposition wants, we might be in a better place. but that's split. we've had labour party mps... they say one thing at 10am and anotherone atipm, and by sam it is obsolete and nobody remembers. they have got four or five people speaking. keir starmer knows what they want, what he wants. thinks they should want. yvette cooper presented herself well. i don't know... what i'm hearing is that,
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as this clock ticks down, we are in the month of march now, where are we headed? we have less than four weeks to sort this out. i would not be surprised if there is an extension. but not a year long, because basically this would mean that the uk needs to organise european elections, and this is out of the question for may. this means three months, three months extension. what can you achieve in three months? the other possibility is she gets her deal through. there are two conditions. labour says, ok, but we need a second referendum on your deal. so how would they tailor their question in the referendum? because the remain option is probably not what corbyn wants. the other thing is that the tory party says, we will vote for your deal, but tell us when you are going to go, because we want you out. those are the three options.
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you're really sitting on the fence. is anybody coming off the fence? grege says he thinks the deal will get through on the 12th. i sort of think that theresa may has a strategy which is slowly and in an embarrassing sort of way, working. i think the opposition has no strategy, and no strategic goals. so i have a feeling, if we don't think of march 29 but we think of six months down the road, theresa may will have gotten a lot of what she wants, in some form. and we have to leave it there, i'm afraid. we will have opportunities to discuss this before the 29th of march. that's it for dateline london for this week. we're back next week at the same time. goodbye.
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hello. win strengthening through sunday from storm freya, peaking overnight before things slowly improve on monday. a nonstarter sunday with rain in southern england. a windy start the day for northern scotland with gus up to around 70 mph. winds and showers easing through the day. in speaking up to the south as rain pushes north of england and wales, into northern ireland and southern scotla nd into northern ireland and southern scotland later in the day, with a bitter pill know as well, the northern flank of this area, and wet weather. those are your temperatures. as for the winds, they are strengthening across england and wales, around the coast of wales in western england. at the end of the day, 60, 70, maybe 80 miles an hour. 60-65 day, 60, 70, maybe 80 miles an hour. 60—65 miles an hour winds across other parts of wales is the go through sunday night into monday morning. there is some of that hill
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snow on the pennines and southern upwards. bass hill improvement on monday, but before freya moves away, the risk of some damage and disruption. keep up to date with the disruption. keep up to date with the disruption eu. but yourforecast.
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