tv HAR Dtalk BBC News March 4, 2019 12:30am-1:01am GMT
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hungary is thermally and viktor i'm rico hizon in singapore. an investigation into 0rban's grip. now he is looking to a president trump for possible the headlines: obstruction of justice. bigger canvas. european elections turning up the pressure on trump. moving, he is working with like—minded leaders in italy, poland a congressional committee demands and beyond. could anti—immigrant, documents from dozens of people to examine allegations that illiberal populism become europe's the president obstructed justice. dominant political movement?m illiberal populism become europe's dominant political movement? it is very sad to see the political left documents will be requested five years after the disappearance from more than 60 people utilising european institutions for and organisations close its political goals. i think that is of flight mh370, malaysia's to president trump, government says it would consider including his son, donald jr. restarting the search the inquiry is examining allegations the first thing that stands out. i for the missing plane. of obstruction ofjustice, corruption, and abuse of power. mean come in the european union, if there have been more protests you have a disagreement over things, there is no closure until the plane in algeria as president bouteflika is found, until we exactly know confirms he is standing for a fifth term as president. what happened to the aircraft, now 82 years old, he is in poor and to our loved ones on board. health and has not been seen public namely weather the countries, i'm kasia madera in london. for some time. measures, laws and preferences are also in the programme: state tv reports that he has in line or not in line with what the promised to hold fresh elections scientists claim a breakthrough within a year if he european union expects, there is one in the fight against climate change, wins power again. way to settle that and that is a turning the greenhouse gas and this story is c02 back into a solid. trending on bbc.com: this dog was trapped by deep snow legal debate. is it not the truth in a car with his ownerforfive that at the heart of your days in the united states. government's worldview is a the dog, ally, and his owner, conspiracy theory that george soros, jeremy taylor, survived by eating packets of taco sauce. an american financier who of course has hungarian roots, is in essence trying to destroy and undermine hungary by use of migration and the
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now on bbc news, hardtalk. lure of migrants into your country? it is nonsense, but it is an idea that you have peddled for the last in 2015, mass migration plunged three years and more. in the face of hungary into chaos. the result— a what you are trying to suggest, mr political back rush still soros has invented himself as a reverberating around hungary and vertical actor. that was the europe today —— backlash. reverberating around hungary and europe today -- backlash. viktor 0rban is next to mr macron, mrs intention. if you take a look at his ma nifestoes, intention. if you take a look at his manifestoes, the work of the open merkel, i think the most influential politician in europe. he is society institute, look at his perfecting a new style of politics, project's website, which is the primary way of announcing plans and single party rule. hungary is still very far away from russia, ideas about his visions about azerbaijan, turkey in this respect, europe, you are going to see that but it is inching towards that there is no need for any kind of conspiracy theory because that kind place. if you want a symbol that ca ptu res place. if you want a symbol that captures the power and the simplicity of viktor 0rban‘s of extirpation of eu policies has nationalist message, then this is been done by mr soros, as the last it. 170 kilometres of fortified few years indicates. it is important borderfence. hungary's
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to point out that mr soros' network it. 170 kilometres of fortified of institutions is something that is border fence. hungary's way of saying no way to immigration. the exercising lots of power, without ever—growing gap between the ever being elected, without a mandate coming from the people. political leftist, political elite sorry, you are saying that civil in western europe and the electorate society organisations which advocate for human rights... ngos, especially in the member states has to be closed. if its growing fervour, then belonging to mr soros, have nothing to do with civil society. it's going to ruin the european belonging to mr soros, have nothing to do with civil societylj belonging to mr soros, have nothing to do with civil society. i am struggling to understand you here. civil society... crosstalk. ... struggling to understand you here. union. hungary, a small country at civil society... crosstalk. she works very hard to human rights in many different fields, including the rights of migrants, and she says that her work is being hampered, her organisation is being harassed by the heart of europe. intensely proud your government. civil society 's grassroots. we have 65,000 civil of its history, culture and language. this story can be traced organisations in this country. what about the helsinki committee? we have had a debate with them which back more than 1000 years. now, it are nothing to do with grassroots, they are not coming from the will of has a new central character. viktor they are not coming from the will of the people. late last year you 0rban, hungary's populist prime refuse to let a un panel of experts into your so—called transit zones.
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minister, whose hostility to because they haven't announced their immigration has fuelled the rise of a rebooted nationalism. this pocket visit in time. so you are acknowledging it is true? pardon? you are acknowledging it is true. you are acknowledging it is true. you are acknowledging it is true. you are trying to portray something as though it is institutionalised, of rural hungary feels a very long but we are working together with all international organisations, as way away from metropolitan budapest. required by international law, and especially coming back to the the communities here are small, citation. she is in no way an authority who decides whether we rural and deeply traditional, and it violate lawful sobchak and have an was here back in 2015 that thousands opinion that we violate. if she wa nts, opinion that we violate. if she wants, we go to court and the court of migrants poured into hungary, and will decide. she does go to court. last week her lawyers, lawyers you can imagine the impact that had on the national psyche. in the working with her, went to court because your transit zone was actually violating the law by refusing food to iraqis who were summer on the national psyche. in the summer of 20 15,000 crossed into there with their children and were southern hungary from serbia every denied food by the people running one of the transit zones. going to day. syrians, iranians, iraqis, court doesn't mean that they are right. it is a court decision that afg ha ns, day. syrians, iranians, iraqis, afghans, people drawn to the safety and prosperity of europe, in is going to declare to you who is particular germany. hungary was the right and who is wrong. we have a unwilling waystation. 3.5 years case here, and that is that there
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are laws set for the country by the later, an impenetrable border constitution and the legislation of barrier divides hungary from serbia, parliament. there is international law, which is never suggested migration is a human right.|j law, which is never suggested migration is a human right. i wonder if it grieves you to see a respected 170 kilometres of electrified barbed wire to keep hungary migrant free. university, respected around the world, the central european university, closing down in this my wire to keep hungary migrant free. my house is the first house in the city and moving to vienna, because european union, so i have a lot of of your government's refusal but you have to be very clear with the experience with this mass formulation of your questions. take immigration. laszlo is mayor of the a five—minute walk down the street and you will find the central village next to the new fence. his european university operating the house overlooks it. he is an extreme heart of budapest. yes, but the hungarian nationalist whose far headquarters and the bog of their operations will now be in vienna. right views have become strikingly you can deny it if you like, it is a prominent. we couldn't sleep by blue true. an element of their night, because the migrants arrive, activity moved, which is not in line with hungarian law. mr kovacs, does especially by night. they thought the truth matter to you? the university is still down the street. does the truth matter to you? i just that my offence is the border fence, but there was no fence on the border said the bulk of its operations have moved to vienna. take a five-minute at that time. yes, but do you really walk. the central european wa nt at that time. yes, but do you really want hungary to become a country of university are still there.|j walk. the central european university are still there. i am happy to take a five—minute walk. i fortified electric fences, and high invite you to come with me. you'll
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see that the headquarters of the borders, and barbed wire? is that your vision for hungary? this is not university has been moved to vienna. my a good situation, but we couldn't do university has been moved to vienna. my colleague matthew, a respected canadian politician turned director of the university, calls it a anything else. we had to protect our tragedy, a tragedy notjust the hungary but for europe. we can have country. how i would protect my ani hungary but for europe. we can have an i commit about the use of words, farm, my house. this is the same for but he is a failed liberal me, and don't forget, this mass politician in canada, by his own words. what does that have to do with anything? your question immigration was a crime. but mr maher, isn't the truth that you're announced as a respected politician. you can be respected even if you don't win power. it seems to me that concerned about immigration isn't you repeatedly tried to make just about security —— mayor. there personal attacks, whether it be on is an element of racism in your attitude to immigrants. 0r example, soros or whoever, to hide yarran cynical agenda. there is no cynical in your own town, you have declared agenda. there is one line we keep that you want to ban the burka, you ourselves to, and that is that the wa nt to that you want to ban the burka, you want to ban the building of mosques. law is there for all. i just want you are making a plain that for you you to tell me whether your vision this is about culture. it isn'tjust is ofan you to tell me whether your vision is of an illiberal states, and a vision which you believe applies about security. yes, you are right, beyond hungary's orders to europe because i think we need to defend generally? our vision is a perception which is not a liberal by oui’ because i think we need to defend our culture. you know, i respect, the political sense of the word. and
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for example, the islam in saudi thatis, arabia. but hungary is a christian the political sense of the word. and that is, we, the value system which belongs to christian democrats, country. our traditions are according to a christian democratic values, is on the same footing as i christian traditions. the european suggested with liberal values. we make references. we make references union is not working now. the european union cannot preserve the infamily. we make references. we make references in family. we make preferences if it is about the institutions, the work european union cannot preserve the european culture. they will destroy of institutions. if it is about the it, and they will be just not the community and the individual, according to an perception, that his political perception. that is simply diversity, there will be a uniform is the society, you know, without a lie in the misconception, that there is only one interpretation of colours, without european colours —— there is only one interpretation of the word liberal. in that sense, yes, we are going for an illiberal uniformist. who will defend the perception of the european union, european people, the european which is a lot closer, as a matter nations? hungary now allowsjust of fa ct, which is a lot closer, as a matter of fact, to the original sense of the founding fathers. we see that european people, the european nations? hungary now allows just two for the past three years, especially would asylum seekers to enter the country from serbia per day. they since the migration crisis, there is are held in one of two secure a term, and that is the ever growing detention camps right next to the gap between the political leftist, borderfence. the detention camps right next to the border fence. the overwhelming majority of applications for refugee liberal elite in europe, and the status are summarily reject that. electorates in the member states, it has to be close. if it is growing the hungarian government's determination to keep this transit
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zone off—limits goes far beyond just further, then it is going to ruin the european union. if you don't listen to the voice of the people, journalists. the un sends a panel of which is clearly different from what the political elite is try to experts to find out what was going suggest, that is going to be a on beyond this fence late last year, disaster. and the government wouldn't let them it is three decades in hungary was in. very few muslim migrants were freed from the darkness of the soviet empire. back then, viktor allowed to settle in hungary during the 2015 crisis. this pastry shop is owned by one who was. but prime 0rban and oppose authoritarianism and champ and freedom. —— 0rban minister 0rban insists hungary is a opposed. how the political currents christian country. muslims, he says, have shifted in 30 years. create parallel societies. they are not welcome. hello again. we had a stormy end to the weekend.
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in fact, storm freya is still across our shores, there's still the potential in today's hungary, human rights for the next few hours of hazardous conditions of travelling, because we've got workers offering assistance to migrants are seen as the enemy the heavy rain, some snow, especially over the hills, but even to lower levels. and those gales, within. now, the only place where really packing a punch. severe gales in places. this's that tell—tale area of cloud. asylu m storm freya, which is going within. now, the only place where asylum seekers are in hungary is the to move out quite quickly border transit zone, a detention through the early hours centre. so we still know what is of monday into the north sea. it does clear out the way, going on, we are still able to help we've got the remnants of the rain in the south, them. just a week ago, something strong and gusty winds, happened that i think was very lively winds, even inland, outrageous. a family of five, and we have seen that fell trees. then we've got that heavy rain and gale force winds driving down the north sea coast again. mother, father, three small kids, i pretty chilly behind it, with frost in northern and western detained in the transit zone. they areas. i suppose the potential is there are from iraq, their asylum claim for a bit of ice first thing. otherwise, a much brighter start has been rejected, but they are than we had on sunday. that sunshine continues, still detained there until the but with it comes the increased risk authorities can do something with of showers developing them to remove them from hungary. in the afternoon. that will obviously temper the way that things feel. and the parents, because of the loss of their asylum seeker status, there we re of their asylum seeker status, there were no longer given food. the children were receiving food, but not the parents. the parents are plenty of showers for the northern effectively being starved. exactly, this went on for 6.5 days, and it and western isles, coming was only because they had lawyers into mainland scotland eventually,
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who tied your mac turned to the into northern ireland and across england and wales. the potential for wintry weather over the hills, european court of human rights to certainly hail and thunder. ask that court to give an emergency if you shelter from order so that the hungarian the breeze in the sunshine government would be compelled to you will start to feel the effect of that strengthening march sunshine. start giving food. do you fear right lots of showers continuing through the coming night. 110w start giving food. do you fear right now for the future of hungarian we could see lengthy spells of rain and hill snow as well. quite chilly, we will democracy? absolutely, that's why see a touch of frost. i'm doing what i'm doing, and many fairly localised. that dominates the weather as we go into tuesday. other people are doing what they are storm freya well and truly off into scandinavia, but with low pressure still doing, when they are protesting, keeping things unsettled, there will be showers or longer when they are organising, civil spells of rain, centred across northern parts society organisations, when they turned to us with ideas, when they of the uk. actually give us support, both moral and financial, it is because of the hill snow as well. that will tend to ease in the south concerned and a very, very heartfelt and very serious concern. and ahead of this next area of rain despite this, if it ends up with you which is our next area of low pressure. midweek looks set to turn facing criminal charges or a very much more unsettled once again with more widespread rain or heavy showers. possible prison sentence? strong winds for a time, and yes, facing criminal charges or a possible prison sentence ?|j facing criminal charges or a possible prison sentence? i think thatis a more lengthy spell of snow, possible prison sentence? i think that is not very realistic in potentially, as that weather system hungary today. hungary is still very comes into that cold air far away from russia, azerbaijan or across the northern half of the country. turkey in this respect, but it is inching toward that place. viktor that is something we
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0rban first rose to power as an will keep our eyes on. anti—communist champion of freedom, but these days, his foe is international liberalism, specifically george soros. the heavy showers, hail and thunder billionaire american financier of and gusty winds as well. a tale of two halves on wednesday. hungarian jewish origin, who so it does look much more unsettled than last week. they will be chilly weather billionaire american financier of towards the end of the week hungarianjewish origin, who has spent $500 million supporting liberal and progressive causes in when that quietens down. in the meantime, the warnings hungary. today, soros‘s faces everywhere, currently pictured are on the website. alongside eu commission president, jean—claude juncker. this government ad claims that together they are threatening hungary's security by encouraging immigration. soros has become mr viktor 0rban‘s go to target. the university founded in budapest in 1981 has been hounded, and it is now moving its main campus to vienna. this is the last class of stu d e nts to vienna. this is the last class of students who will get us certified
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ceu degrees in budapest. because this is a private university, and ultimately it is financed by the billionaire george soros, are you co mforta ble billionaire george soros, are you comfortable with that? because the hungarian government tells all of hungary's citizens that soros is a great danger to this country. hungary's citizens that soros is a great danger to this countrylj think soros has created opportunities for many fellow hungarians, including government officials. i have been thinking about this a lot, like, why am i different to any of those other hungarian, fellow hungarian students studying in a masters programme? and i couldn't find an answer. i can't speak only half of all of the students. 0ur speak only half of all of the students. our main goal here is not to become a soros agent, or be part of any political movement, idea, theory, whatever. are you feeling angry right now? i am angry. i've been angry. but i think anger was
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changed to this feeling of insecurity for a long time now, which is kind of devastating. steven, we would like to stay in budapest forever, and we will maintaina budapest forever, and we will maintain a presence in budapest. it depends what the law allows. but we are going to be forced to move our degree programmes to vienna in september because we are not allowed to offer them september because we are not allowed to offerthem in september because we are not allowed to offer them in budapest here. so we will be split in two. we will be bringing back the austro—hungarian empire. they will be vienna and budapest. you know, it's tragic, in my view, because our home is here. but that's what the 0rban government has decided. but you see the government says you has decided. but you see the government says you are has decided. but you see the government says you are crying wolf, that the central european university can remain here, that you can still offer degree programmes here, and frankly you are making a political point for your own purposes, that you are not telling the truth about
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what has happened. you are not telling the truth about what has happenedlj you are not telling the truth about what has happened. i don't take lessons in the truth from the 0rban government, frankly. they passed legislation in 2017 that said you can't stay here unless you make a deal with us. we then negotiated a deal with us. we then negotiated a deal with us. we then negotiated a deal with them, and then they refused to sign it. once they refused to sign it. once they refused to sign it, we are not allowed to issue us accredited degrees in budapest. those are facts. i didn't make them up. you are free to sit here and discuss with me just how, are free to sit here and discuss with mejust how, in your view, how wrongheaded the 0rban government is. 0ther wrongheaded the 0rban government is. other universities, indeed other american universities, can still operate in budapest and issue their american degrees. i come back to the point that, in the end, it seems to mea point that, in the end, it seems to me a lot of this is about mr soros‘s problem with viktor 0rban. and we can discuss that, but that's rather different than a wholesale attack on
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liberty. well, that would be true, again, if they won't this eight—year, nine—year pattern of essentially this is a regime that is hostile to any free institution. yes, ican hostile to any free institution. yes, i can speak to you freely, and i have ta ken yes, i can speak to you freely, and i have taken advantage of it. this isa i have taken advantage of it. this is a free society, i've never denied that. but it is consolidating a new form of single party rule within a european state. they are trying something new here, which is to create a single party regime that holds power indefinitely, extracts resources from the society, replaces... fills all institutions with its own people, and basically steadily reduces the frame of freedom here. this is something new. this is a 21st—century phenomenon, that i think we need to understand. macro to's contention is that soros has fundamentally changed from being
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that men who simply wanted to encourage freedom —— 0rban's contention. he has become a man who is determined to shape the nations of central and eastern europe in his own own liberal image, if you like. the whole thing as a kind of fantastic conspiracy theory. change inside hungarian society will happen because front aryans wanted to happen. this regime needs george soros in order to run a campaign to mobilise its base. it is that politics of enemies. soros' capacity to change, in fact, move hungary is just about zero. the person who has a very large capacity to change and move hungary for good or ill is viktor 0rban. prime minister 0rban comes from the village of —— from this village, a
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short drive from budapest. it is home to 1800 people and is perhaps the most pampered community in all of hungry. it has its own railway line, all of six kilometres long, to the village next door. there are so few passengers that it shuts down for the winter. being in mr 0rban's home village is a surreal experience. it tells you a lot about his posh on —— penchant crony capitalism. there is this railway to nowhere, built with 2 million euros of european union funding. just down the track there is a swanky new foot all stadium built on mr 0rban's land with massive tax breaks. —— football stadium. then there is his oldest, closest friend, the former mayor of the village, who just happens to be hungary's richest oligarch. viktor 0rban famously loves football, so he had this 10 million euros stadium built is right next to his house.
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