you re watching bbc newsroom live. it's11am — and these are the main stories this morning: the home secretary meets police chiefs to discuss knife crime — as one of the country's most senior officers warns it should be treated as a national emergency. it's an emergency, and it needs emergency funding. we need to have more officer hours on the streets. hello, it's wednesday, around 30 passengers it's ten o'clock, are quarantined at gatwick — i'm victoria derbyshire. after feeling ill during a flight from barbados. our exclusive story today — a warning over the move away an investigation for this programme from cash — has found that more than £20 million as a report suggests one in five was raised on crowdfunding sites people will struggle to cope if high last year for cancer treatment street shops stop accepting notes and coins. the us singer, r kelly, denies allegations of sexual not available on the nhs. abuse in an interview on american television. how stupid would it be for me to... you just think, where am i going to get that money from? fundraising, fundraising, crowdfunding page, it was absolutely... it was draining. doctors and charities are warning that crowdfunding can put families under even more pressure when they re at their most vulnerable. and the biggest of them all, gofundme, says it's changing its website in light of our investigation. have you crowdfunded for cancer treatment abroad? do let us know how much you raised

and whether it was worth it. the home secretary, sajid javid, is right now meeting senior police officers from the seven areas of england most affected by knife crime. the head of the national police chiefs‘ council, sarah thornton, says they need more officers. it is an emergency that needs emergency funding, we need more office hours on the streets, we know what tactics work, about targeting hotspots, about using stop and search, about tackling county lines gangs, but we haven't got the capacity. and michaeljackson‘s nephew — taj jackson is here. he's flown to the uk to defend his uncle against sexual abuse allegations. last week on the programme, two men told us that michaeljackson abused them "hundreds of times" when they were young boys.

hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. after half ten, we're going to introduce you to the mum's midwife of the year brenda, and the mum who nomimated her, sarah. find out how brenda helped sarah, who has cerebal palsy, through her prengancy and birth. we'll talk to to both of them at about 10:50. first, annita has the news. the home secretary, sajid javid, is meeting police chiefs from seven forces most affected by violent crime. the home secretary, sajid javid, is meeting police chiefs he's facing calls to treat a series of fatal stabbings as a national emergency. last night, a teenager was charged with the murder of yousef makki, the 17—year—old boy who was stabbed to death in greater manchester on saturday. a man has also been arrested in connection with the murder of a 17—year—old girl, jodie chesney, in east london on friday. more than £20 million was raised

on crowdfunding sites last year for cancer treatment not available on the nhs, an investigation for this programme has found. the amount has been rising, sharply driven by the growth of social media campaigns and an increase in overseas clinics. but there are fears — from doctors and charities — that the rise in crowdfunding can put vulnerable families under even you have got to really sit down, as a family, and say to yourself, if we do this, and we end up destitute, with nothing, and it doesn't work, where are we going to be? and that is the most important, terrifying, ridiculous decision that you are ever going to make in your life. the campaigning group momentum has been fined £16,700 for "multiple breaches of electoral law", the electoral commission has said.

the fines are for an inaccurate 2017 general election spending return and for failures to report donations accepted as a "members association" outside of an election period. r kelly has angrily denied allegations of sexual abuse during an interview on american television. speaking to the cbs host gayle king, the r&b star, whose real name is robert sylvester kelly, insisted he was not guilty of ten charges of aggravated sexual abuse against four alleged victims, three of whom were underage. is this camera on me? yes, it's on. that's stupid! use your common sense. don't. .. forget the blogs, forget how you feel about me. hate me if you want to, love me if you want, butjust use your common sense. how stupid would it be for me to, with my crazy past and what i've been through, "0h, right now ijust think i need to be a monster and hold girls against their will"?! millions of people will struggle to access coins and notes

as we move towards a cashless society. the use of cards has increased while a record number of cash machines and bank branches are closing, according to a new report. the access to cash review calls on the government to guarantee people are able to access money locally and ensure premises continue to accept it. cash is now only used for three in every ten transactions, down from six in ten a decade ago. england have won the shebelieves cup in the us. they did it by beating japan 3—0. it's arguably their biggest success to date and comes at a perfect time, with the world cup kicking off in france injune. congratulations to them, that is a summary of the main news today, back to you, victoria. our exclusive story today — more than £20 million was raised on crowdfunding sites last year for cancer treatment not available on the nhs, an investigation for this programme has found. the amount has been

rising sharply each year, driven by access to overseas clinics and the growth of social media campaigns. but there are fears — from doctors and charities — that the rise of crowdfunding can put families under even more pressure when they're at their most vulnerable. and in the light of our investigation, the largest crowdfunding site, the us—based gofundme, tells us it's going to start directing cancer patients and their families to scientific advice on treatments. 0ur reporterjim reed has this exclusive film. i'm terrified, if i'm completely honest. i've had 20 cycles of chemotherapy now. i think, realistically, we are looking for a miracle. this is what life can now look like after a cancer diagnosis. i got the ferry from dover, went to france, belgium, the netherlands, into germany. an ii—hourjourney in an ambulance. millions are being raised

online for treatments, often unproven and untested. without the public donations, i think it would be a totally different story. but with this new form of funding comes a new type of pressure. helen lives in the hills in lancashire. her daughter gemma was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2014. she was pregnant and put off treatment until she gave birth. gemma was extremely poorly. she was absolutely exhausted, obviously, from having the baby anyway. backwards and forwards to the hospital. it was just madness. for a while, chemotherapy worked, but then gemma fell ill again, and she was told nothing more could be done on the nhs. ijust thought, that's not happening. iam not losing her. she is 28 years old. she has got a baby, i need to do something, and that's when i started looking for alternative treatments,

whether it was in this country or anywhere else in the world for that matter. and ijustjumped on the internet and started researching. until recently, terminal cancer patients had few treatment options. now the choice can be overwhelming, from private doctors in the uk, to drug trials and clinics abroad. are you seeing a rise in people coming to you asking about treatment overseas? without doubt. the internet doesn't have geographical boundaries, and if you can see a treatment in germany, you can find out about that. you can't believe that there's no such thing, what you mean there is no treatment? you can get a man to the moon, of course you can find something that can extend my life. our ability to find out more about that is accelerated. gemma wanted access to immunotherapy drugs not approved for nhs use. a private clinic in germany said it could offer the treatment. you are completely stressed out as it is. how do i do that?

how do i get there, how am i going to do this? and then you have got the added pressure, the biggest pressure of all, which is where the hell am i going to get the money from? once you realise what you have got to do, you have got to work out how you are going to pay for it. the family soldfl house and took out loans. a crowdfunding campaign was started online, raising £16,000. the clinic wanted 100,000 just to start treatment. then an e—mail arrived. helen thought it was fake at first, from someone saying they worked for kate winslet. the actress, who had read gemma's story raised money, and the publicity boosted crowdfunding from the public. gemma did make it to germany, and for a while the treatment seemed to work. thank you so much for all of your hard work. me being able to have my treatment, that i really did need. but in gemma's case, any success was short lived.

the cancer came back. after seven trips to that clinic, she died in the uk in october. i didn't want to come back. helen is very thankful for the support, both from kate winslet and the public, but says others need to think very hard before making a similar decision. everybody that we met over there, not one of them is here any more. and there were a lot of people sold everything that they owned through to the kitchen sink. you have got to really sit down as a family and say to yourself, if we do this, will we end up destitute with nothing? if it doesn't work, where are we going to be? and that is the most important, terrifying, ridiculous decision that you are ever going to make in your life. this programme has found over the last year more than £20 million has been raised on crowdfunding sites

for cancer treatments not available on the nhs. in some cases, that has helped pay for trials abroad, or cutting—edge treatments at hospitals or universities. charities say crowdfunding can be a force for good, but there are real concerns about the pressure it can also put on families. it is a new option. but in our experience, we have found that some families feel as though they have to do it, they feel pressurised into doing it. because it is something we have all heard of. we see it a lot on the internet. if you are regularly on facebook, you will probably have seen a fair old handful of children who need treatment. so for some families, it feels like an obligation. if you haven't tried this, are you a good parent? and that is a very, very difficult position to be in. other families we have spoken to also say they felt very uneasy posting photos online of their children, often very sick, but the harsh reality of crowdfunding is that it is often the most hard—hitting

stories that raise the most money. these are my arms... that has implications for people like paul, a former army officer who served in northern ireland. diagnosed with terminal skin cancer, he raised money from friends and family, but his wider crowdfunding campaign struggled. i haven't got a story that grabs people. i was nearly 60 at the time. i have got no children. not many dependents. without having a really compelling story, you are not going to raise a lot of money through crowdfunding because there are just so many people trying to raise money and you disappear into it. when they say to you, there is nothing more they can do, you want to fight it. david greenwood is opening a shop in stockport. this wedding—events business was all his wife heidi's idea. she never took a wage from it. up until the day she passed away, she never took a wage from it, and

it was just amazing what she did. heidi died from cancer one month before we filmed, leaving dave, their son, and five other children. it feels like your feet are stuck to the floor, and you sink into the seat when you hear the word "tumour", and you say, is it cancerous? and you are thinking then, how long has she got? what do we need to do now? dave saw the news about kate winslet. at the time, gemma's case was being widely reported as close to a miracle cure. he wanted the same treatment in germany that he hoped could save his wife's life. you just think, where am i going to get that money from? where am i going to get that money from? it was like fundraising, fundraising, crowdfunding, and it was hard work. in a way, it was draining. david says his first quote from the clinic was £75,000. when they got to germany, he says they were told to come back every three weeks at a cost of £39,000 a time. you try to focus on your family,

but in the back of your mind you have got £39,000 to try to raise to get her back there. you are looking at it, and it is like a time bomb. it is going and going and going. thousands were raised online. dave took money out of the business, and friends made their own donations, but in the end it wasn't enough. she didn't manage to get back on september the 10th because we did not get enough funds to do it. how did you feel about not coming back? i wanted to get back there. everyone stepped up to try to raise money, and everyone was sharing the crowdfunding page. you could see, there were days when you'd get £500, and there were days where you would get nothing in. you just think, we are not going to get there. and then you're thinking, stop being stupid, you have got to plod on, you have got to keep going. it sounds incredibly stressful. it is, it is. we didn't even have near to the £39,000 to get back there.

heidi's one trip to germany cost £75,000. elsewhere in europe, turkish clinics are popular. for childhood cancers, it is mexico or the us. we are talking £100,000, up to £300,000. it is an awful lot of money for everyone. can it be justified? would you put a value on a child's life? never. a cynic might question why all of the clinics seem to charge roughly the same amount of money to provide very, very different treatments. so it is almost as if some clinics have worked out, this is the right amount, or the amount that most families would pay. she was a young mother, she was in her 40s at the time. just approaching her 40s. very personable. she was quite humorous. this man's sister was diagnosed with

breast cancer in 2013. she looked for treatment overseas, and again, she ended up in germany. we had heard stories about people who had been airlifted into the clinic, and then they were walking out, you know. wheeled in, and walking out themselves. and skipping back home, literally. the family say they were told for most patients, like rebecca, the cancer had gone into remission. in her case, it wasn't to be. it spread, and she was too sick to bring home. she died in the clinic in germany. all that she could think about was seeing her two boys again. i can't imagine what it must... i can't imagine what it must have been like for her. but it was that sense of hope. to pay for treatment, there was a crowdfunding page, but most of the money came from family. he says the final bill was more than £2 million.

my mother put her savings into it. we had property as well within the family, that has all been mortgaged up. and even that wasn't enough. there was a certain idea that what the cost would be, but it seemed to be increasing, and of course rebecca is not going to get treatment until the bills have been paid. it's a struggle, and it still is a struggle for us. it has left its mark. there are elements of the family who are not talking to each other. it is breaking up the family. that really hurts mum. this is a difficult question to ask, but was it worth it? was it worth putting all that money into your sister's treatment? it is not a question... i understand why one would ask such a thing, but i don't know if it is a relevant question. how can you measure such a thing?

it is a decision that most people didn't have to make, even five years ago. crowdfunding is fuelling the growth of overseas clinics, which is encouraging more online campaigns. some lives may have been extended, or perhaps even saved as a result. the cost, though, both financially and emotionally, to the families involved, is impossible to calculate. andjim is here with me now. all three of the families featured in your film went to germany. how common is that? it is very common, it is becoming more popular, especially for cancer care. there are dozens of private clinics in germany offering different treatments. as for the clinic that treated all three of those patients, they told us three of those patients, they told us they do have patience' best interest at heart, they claim they

are very successful in extremely difficult situations, and they do point out that they have one specialist cancer doctor for every three patients and a nurse to patient ratio of nearly 121. your investigation is having an impact of the biggest crowdfunding website is going to start directing fundraisers to trusted information on cancer treatments. this is one of the big issues that families tell us, after a diagnosis, they do not know where to turn, is of the largest crowdfunding website, gofundme, say they are making changes in light of they are making changes in light of the programme. they will bring in a new information hub, so after someone is diagnosed, or a family member goes to start raising money, they are directed, as they put it, to trusted scientific advice on the site, so they will work with doctors and patient groups to set that up in the next couple of months. and i also said they have the power to blacklist clinics? they do, they say they have the power to blacklist some clinics, as you say, and if they want to, they say that if a

clinic breaks the terms and conditions, or they believe it is not meeting standards, they can stop them using the gofundme logo and brand and marketing material and online as well. thank you. our two of the report, asjim said, is on the programme tomorrow. —— pat two. with us this to talk about the issues jim raised in his report, rose gray, policy manager at cancer research uk, paula newman, whose nine—year—old niece travelled to mexico to be treated for a rare cancer of the brain. paula stayed in the uk to crowdfund for the treatment and says the pressure of having to raise so much money led to the breakdown of her marriage. her knees, the little girl, died aged ten. and the labour mp and chair of the all party parliamentary group on cancer, ruth george, is here too. paula, lucy was your sister's little

girl, she was diagnosed with a rare childhood cancer in 2017, the prognosis is very poor, her mum had died, and her dad decided that they we re died, and her dad decided that they were going to go to mexico for treatment, how did you get to that decision? well, when lucy was diagnosed with dipg, we did a lot of research online, herfather diagnosed with dipg, we did a lot of research online, her father spent a lot of time looking into if there we re lot of time looking into if there were any options at all. we found a clinic in mexico. we found a house to have other clinics as well, but the one in mexico seemed to be the one that everyone was flocking to. we asked lucy where she would like to go, and she said she would like to go, and she said she would like to go, and she said she would like to go to mexico, and when we found the cost, it was a shock. it was what? the first treatment was around £15,000, but then repeated treatments, which i did not anticipate at first, could be up to

£300,000. and you took on the responsibility back here are trying to raise that money, what was that like for you? i didn't really think ahead, it was a case of, lucy has got dipg, this cancer is not treatable in the uk, the prognosis is dire, there was nothing that could be done, so this is something i have to do. i was quite savvy with social media, i had seen it being successful online, through facebook and things like that, so i thought, well, obviously, if we have no hope, well, obviously, if we have no hope, we have to give it a try. once the family makes that decision and sta rts family makes that decision and starts crowdfunding, are you lifted by the fact that you are taking what you think is the initiative? absolutely, there is literally nothing else that you can do as a family, and actually wanted broad, was not only the financial help that we needed to get lucy to mexico, but the onslaught of people supporting

us, the community that came together was incredible. so it galvanises the community, as we heard, we can't accept is, we have got to do something, and people are really good at fundraising. people are brilliant, yeah, and having lost my sister very suddenly in 2012, we didn't get a chance to help her, so we had to help lucy when we had the opportunity, that was huge for us. so your sister's daughter, you think you couldn't do anything for your sister, you will do your damnedest to help her little girl. that is what she would have wanted. the impact on you eventually are trying to continue to raise so much money, hundreds of thousands of pounds? we we re very hundreds of thousands of pounds? we were very successful financially, it didn't have a direct financial impact, the company that i worked for was so supportive, and, you know, it was more of the emotional side of things that affected me, not getting the support i needed, i was

experiencing marital problems at the time, andi experiencing marital problems at the time, and i think itjust accelerated the inevitable for me personally. you chose that clinic because you saw photos of other kids who had been treated there, living their life with reasonable quality of life. not only that, we have spoken to the families, social media brings the opportunity to talk to otherfamilies going brings the opportunity to talk to other families going through the same thing, and they had all said that the children were able to enjoy themselves in the mexico sunshine, they were going out for pizza, family meals, having quality time, and that is what gill got with lucy, and that is what gill got with lucy, and that is priceless. claire says my daughter 0livia died from dipg, the same, injune 2018, one year after diagnosis. we looked into every clinical trial worldwide after the nhs said they had nothing to help and there was no guarantee anywhere that she would survive or even live a bit longer. we chose to make memories instead. if you on

facebook says five years ago my father was battling pancreatic cancer, having been given 3—6 months to live, he went to one of these clinics costing thousands for the treatments. it lasted until the end of may, having been diagnosed in 0ctober, just past the six months mark. they did extend his life? probably, but with what quality? he was never given the chance to come to terms with the diagnosis, as he a lwa ys to terms with the diagnosis, as he always felt, even once paralysed, that he could beat it with his clinic's help. rose from cancer research uk and also ruth, one of the vice chairs of the all parliamentary group on cancer, first of all, your reaction to the fact that one of the biggest crowdfunding websites is now changing that websites is now changing that website as a result of our investigation. i think it is positive and an incredibly important investigation, something we should be talking about. i think it is part ofa be talking about. i think it is part of a much bigger puzzle that we all

need to work towards, and for people in this situation, desperate situation, the most difficult decision anyone has to make, and what we would say is that people should make sure they are as informed as possible. gofundme taking action is absolutely part of that, you have so much emotion going on at the point of a diagnosis, scientific papers and the advice they provide are really important, but people also need to be able to talk it through with their nhs doctors or with experts or with people they can trust that can explain this in a way that can help them in their decision—making. explain this in a way that can help them in their decision-making. so, ruth, people with a terminal diagnosis, let's be honest, we might all feel like that, you think, i can't take this, there has to be somewhere in the world that can help, but you think that those people should be able to take the latest research to their own nhs co nsulta nt latest research to their own nhs consultant and say, what do you think? i do, i think consultant and say, what do you think? i do, ithink that consultant and say, what do you think? i do, i think that the nhs needs to be able to have

professionals available, whether it is consultant or a trusted adviser, someone who can talk throughout terminal diagnosis and go on that journey so they can make an informed choice between whether they want the quality of life that a clinic can offer them, or whether quality of life that a clinic can offerthem, orwhetherthey quality of life that a clinic can offer them, or whether they want to build those memories. right. rose, you know, there are exciting developments with the scientists that you fund who are coming across new treatments, cutting—edge treatments, like immunothera py, new treatments, cutting—edge treatments, like immunotherapy, for example. i mean, it does make sense that people are researching what is potentially being trialled. absolutely, cancer research uk, eve ryo ne absolutely, cancer research uk, everyone watching at home wants to see a day when no—one is to make these decisions and where there are treatment options available to give them a great chance, and if not, clinical trials, and that is why we fund research. it is a difficult balance, because on the one side you

see amazing advances like immunotherapy, see amazing advances like immunothera py, that we see amazing advances like immunotherapy, that we have seen announced recently, that completely transforms outcomes for people who would otherwise be facing a terminal diagnosis. the really difficult thing is the reality that we are only at the start of that, we are going to see more things happen, but if you are in that situation now, it doesn't help you, so that is why it comes back to understanding all the evidence and speaking to your doctors to understand what is available and whether there is a clinical trial, because that is a brilliant way of accessing new treatments. we have to leave it there, thank you for coming on the programme. i have more messages from you that i will read during the course of the programme, but if you have crowdfunded for cancer treatment abroad, let me know about your experience and whether it was worth it. still to come... we talk to the midwife has been named mums‘ midwife of the year for the amazing care she gave to a woman who has cerebral palsy

throughout her pregnancy and birth. sarah griffiths, who's a wheelchair user, nominated brenda mccabe. we'll hear from both of them atjust after half past ten. and we'll speak to the father who's dedicated himself to campaigning for tougher gun control laws in the us after his daughter, us cable tv reporter alison parker, was shot and killed while she was broadcasting live on air. last week, two men told this programme that they were sexually abused by michaeljackson "hundreds of times". the 36—year—old and 41—year—old feature in a documentary that goes out tonight on channel 4 called leaving neverland. the documentary also hears from the men's families — mums, sisters, brothers and their wives. the jackson family say there isn't a single piece of evidence to prove what the men are claiming. we're going to talk now to michael jackson's nephew taj jackson, who says he was a regular at his uncle's sleepover parties with other children and saw nothing inappropriate. he's flown to the uk

to defend his uncle. 0bviously, some of the things we'll be talking about will include graphic content of a sexual nature, so if you are watching with young children, or might find it upsetting or disturbing, you may want to turn down the volume for this bit of the programme. taj jackson, thank you very much for coming on the programme. i would like to show you a clip of what these men told our programme and our audience last week. have a look. michael sexually abused me from the age of seven years old until 14 years old. the sexual abuse included fondling, touching my entire body, my penis. i was sexually abused from the age of ten until around 1a. the abuse was very similar to wade's. it starts with him teaching

you how to masterbate, showing you this new thing that everyone does. then you start french kissing. he said i taught him how to do that. and then oral sex starts. he also liked to have his nipples rubbed. yeah. he also attempted to penetrate me anally when i was 14. that was one of the last sexual abuse experiences we had. when you watch those two men describe what they say michael jackson did to them, what do you as a survivor of sexual abuse yourself feel? it is hard because as a survivor i am looking at it one way,

but then knowing my uncle for thousands of hours and knowing he is not capable of that, i am looking at it in not capable of that, i am looking at itina not capable of that, i am looking at it in a completely different way. i am trying to be sensitive to his victims because i know how hard it is to come out. but what do you do when you know one of the people and you know them very well and you know why they are doing it? it is hard for me, it is like an unknown situation. they say your uncle is a paedophile and they now have had their own children and that is what has prompted them. if you look at the time line, that is what we say to people who are open to it, where it was doing tribute show after tribute show and he even asked for the cirque du soleil choreography job and when the estate said no, he started writing a book about his abuse and no one picked it up and a

year later he comes out publicly with that and that is a new deposition. that is notjust me saying that, that is from his words as well. why does that mean that michaeljackson in your view did not sexually abuse these young men? because i know my uncle and i have known him my entire life. as an abuse victim myself i would be the first one to turn it in order to say thatis first one to turn it in order to say that is wrong and i would go to the police. you were not there, there was nothing for you to go to the police about. no, that is why it is so important because my uncle was not here to defend himself. it is the hardest thing to do because you do not want to attack victim, but at the same time michael is not here to defend himself. i would like to show you this clip. this is a second clip from our interview. this is a second clip from our interview. do you know how many times michael jackson abused you ?

it is countless. yes, countless. there is no way to... every time i was with him, every single time i stay the night with him, he abused me. i think that was the same forjames. yes, i was with him for long periods of time over many years, and it was constant. so that is hundreds and hundreds of times? yes. is wade robson lying? yum! 100% he is lying. is his mother lying? yes. weight is his sister lying? yes, she is. weight is his brother lying? yeah, i don't know. is his wife elaine? 100%. is james yeah, i don't know. is his wife

elaine? 100%. isjames lying?|j don't elaine? 100%. isjames lying?” don't know james. he elaine? 100%. isjames lying?” don't knowjames. he could be telling the truth? i don't know, i don't feel comfortable talking about someone i don't know. is james' mother stephanie lying?” someone i don't know. is james' mother stephanie lying? i don't know. is it realistic to think whole families have got together to lie in a documentary and pretend that one of the world's biggest eyes has abused little boys, to pretend whole families have been damaged by what has happened ? families have been damaged by what has happened? is that realistic? i have lived my whole life with michaeljackson and that is a reality, to see whole families scheme him like that, maybe to the outside world that is not realistic, but to me it is realistic. have we not learned so much more about victims of sexual abuse in recent yea rs, victims of sexual abuse in recent years, that sometimes they do defend their abuser out of fear or shame or misguided love or because they think

no one will believe them or they do not want to destroy their parents? could that be the reasons why they have defended him in the past? yes, it could be the reason but the problem we are having is that wade has put all of those and he has contradicted himself. he sat at times he feared michael would do something in a way that they would go to jail. but than in others he would say we had a love relationship and he did not know why it is wrong. why are the contradictory statements? because if you can go to jailfor statements? because if you can go to jail for something, obviously you know it is wrong. when he was a little boy why would he know it was wrong? no, he testified when he was an adult. if it was a kid, it would bea an adult. if it was a kid, it would be a different story. when he testified he was 11. let me show you this clip. this is wade robson explaining how he was trained to lie he says by your uncle.

from day one of him abusing me he immediately started to train me and tell me how to lie about what was happening between us. first he would tell me that what this is is sexual activity and it is because he and i love each other and this is how we show our love. then he would immediately follow that up with, but if anybody else in the world ever found out what we were doing, people are ignorant, and they would not understand and what would happen is you and i would go to jailfor the rest of our lives and our lives would fall apart. he and i would be pulled apart. all of this was terrifying to me and so, of course, the idea of going to jail, and two,

the idea of going to jail, and two, the idea of being pulled away from michael, this man, this otherworldly figure, this god to me who have become my best friend, no way was i ever going to do anything that would pull me away from him. and so that training started on day one and it continued all the way through, through years and years. then when the first allegations cropped up in 903i the first allegations cropped up in 9031 was already ready for it. but as soon as the allegations popped up michael upped his training of me tenfold and was calling every day and he would coach me for hours as to what the cops were going to say, how the cops would try to break it down, they do not have anything, it is all lies, this is what you say and what you do not say, it was everyday. so when a cop showed up at my house was ready. you know that abusers manipulate people around

them, as an abuse yourself. definitely. does that have a ring of truth? it actually made me angry and it bothered me a lot. are you angry? i feel betrayed. i wade into them at my uncle's memorial. i wish i could ta ke my uncle's memorial. i wish i could take all that back now. i am angry because my uncle is not here to defend himself and this conveniently happened after the fact. why do you think they are doing it? they have an appeal right now, they sued the estate for hundreds of millions of dollars and their appeals are coming up dollars and their appeals are coming up this year so it is conveniently timed. they can say it is not about money, but when you are suing for hundreds of millions of dollars, it is about money. i am interested when you said you do not know james is about money. i am interested when you said you do not knowjames or his mother, therefore he might be

telling the truth. i am very familiar with other people coming out and lie about my uncle. i do not feel comfortable because i do not personally know him and i do not wa nt to personally know him and i do not want to talk about someone else. but he could be telling the truth? ideally anyone could be telling the truth. i am saying my uncle is not here to defend himself. that suggests... know, for me that could never happen. he could be telling the truth, but i do not know him, but in my heart of hearts and i have known my uncle as long as i have known my uncle as long as i have known him and other people have known him and other people have known him and other people have known him like elizabeth taylor, marlon brando, macaulay culkin, all of them say the same thing. that he was a child at heart. michael jackson was a child at heart. he was an adult man in his 30s and 405. physically. an adult man in his 305 and 405. physically. sleeping in a bed with

one of the most successful businessman in the world, sleeping ina bed businessman in the world, sleeping in a bed with young boys. your family mu5t in a bed with young boys. your family must have talked about that. what was the nature of those conversations? i definitely approached him at one point because ido approached him at one point because i do not live in a bubble like he did. what did you say? it was around 2005 and the trial and i said, you know how this looks to the outside world ? know how this looks to the outside world? no one else would tell him. but to him he was like, they do not understand, i would but to him he was like, they do not understand, iwould never but to him he was like, they do not understand, i would never harm a kid. with respect, that is what abu5er 5ay. kid. with respect, that is what abuser say. of course, that is why character and credibility matter because you have to look into that as well. and knowing my uncle, and, you know, i don't want to say it, but when you are abused you have a sense of other people that could be

possibly abused. like if you are a wife and you are beaten, your best friend doe5 wife and you are beaten, your best friend does not have to say, you can kind of sense the thing. if i felt that wade wa5 kind of sense the thing. if i felt that wade was someone, and i am very aware of everyone, but i have met people in the industry that have given me those vibes and i have stayed away from them, so i do have that sense. presumably you have looked into the credibility of james and cannot find anything that would knock the credibility? james basically said that he discovered it after he saw wade on tv. it was when he went to therapy. but then his mother states that in 2009 when she found that my uncle passed. it is like which one is it? you are saying before she knew her own son was claiming this? she could have been

talking about another case and not her son? in terms of her dancing and being excited that he had passed? she said she was glad because she thought he could not hope other children. maybe, but i can tell you all so that james had children. maybe, but i can tell you all so thatjames had michael discarded him once he got to a certain age. 14. that is not true because we have seen the footage and he was there in terms of the promotion for a permit history. he has been around, marie presley knows him very well as well. what effect i the5e him very well as well. what effect i these allegations having on michael jackson's children? it is beyond devastating because for me i am very protective of them. my uncle was for u5. seeing what they are going through really up5et5 me. u5. seeing what they are going through really upsets me. what are they going through? how old i day?

0ne they going through? how old i day? one is they going through? how old i day? 0ne i517. paris is older, 5he they going through? how old i day? 0ne i517. paris is older, she is in her 205. prince i talked to every day. they all handle it differently. bj i5 day. they all handle it differently. bj is one of the most talkative kid5 and he is not talking now and people i worried about him because he is 5en5itive like his dad was. that hu rt5 5en5itive like his dad was. that hurts me inside because michael is not here to defend himself and credibility doe5 not here to defend himself and credibility does matter. do not believe me, do not trust me, just do your research, that is what we are asking people. thank you for coming on. i really appreciate it. taj jack5on. brenda mccabe has been named the mum 5 midwife of the year award for the care she gave sarah griffiths who has cerebral palsy. when she became pregnant with her second child sarah wanted to try and have a natural birth with her second child sarah wanted something she thought she could have first time round. yesterday brenda, the northern

ireland regional winner, was made the national winner at the royal college of midwives annual awards. brenda and sarah are here a5 is sarah's eight—month—old daisy. hello, both of you. congratulations. where is your award? 0h, hello, both of you. congratulations. where is your award? oh, it is there in the front of the shop. tell our audience why brand it is amazing. where do i start? brenda i5 audience why brand it is amazing. where do i start? brenda is amazing. she never saw me as a busy woman, 5he she never saw me as a busy woman, she saw me as a mother and she tru5ted me to know my limitations and know my body enough to know what i could and could not do and she was the first person, because this is my second pregnancy in two years, and 5he second pregnancy in two years, and she was the first medical professional who i encountered who tru5ted me and trusted what we could achieve together. no matter what a wacky idea i brought to her she was

like, 0k, wacky idea i brought to her she was like, ok, this might be challenging but we will see it through and make it happen. she is on point with her research all the time. nothing is a challenge, everything is an adventure. you a wacky idea, but you wa nted adventure. you a wacky idea, but you wanted a natural birth. in the end it did not happen for various reasons, because you were ten days over, but, brando, how did you approach cerebral palsy? sarah is a person, mother, wife, so she should not be treated any differently. it might not be the norm, but there is always a first for everything. my role as a midwife is to make sure that you look after the mother and be with them. it was my duty to make sure that we have not overlooked something i missed something or if there was something wacky out there that we could try. we did say it we would look into it to the best of

our ability, we might have to have compromises, but we can make the best birth experience possible. compromises, but we can make the best birth experience possiblem was like knowing that i had somebody on my team who got me, who understood what i wanted to achieve, was so empowering so that even when things did not go to my ideal i still felt in control, i still felt empowered and i knew that we were having the best outcome for us. it was the open—mindedness and the open heart op brand there was enough to get me through, to know that i could achieve everything. you are very mode5t because we chatted earlier. you said, i was doing myjob. mode5t because we chatted earlier. you said, i was doing my job. yes, definitely, there is no big formula to this. it is very simple. as long as it is dignity and respect and being a good listener and being compassionate. no matter who we looked after i have to say, is that my sister or my cousin are my own

to? you would want them treated that way. as you treat people with dignity and respect and listen to them, you have got halfway there. after that it is research and what is best for them. as long as you educate them and let the parents know that they have been listened to, you have achieved everything. congratulations and thank you both very much for coming on. and, dai5y, what a good little girl. 0ne very much for coming on. and, dai5y, what a good little girl. one of the be5t behaved babies we have ever had on this programme. even at the awards ceremony she was loving life and was the main star attraction of the show. well done. we're going be talking about gun violence for the next few minutes so if you have children watching or don't want to listen, you might want to turn down the volume. thi5 this is footage filmed by vesta

flanagan, who, on august the 26th 2015, shot and killed a us cable tv reporter. they will live on air for the news. the cameraman wa5 reporter. they will live on air for the news. the cameraman was also found. we will let you know what tho5e 5ound5 found. we will let you know what tho5e sounds were. found. we will let you know what those sounds were. flanagan also wounded the interviewee vicky geiger. he was an ex—employee who had been advised to seek mental health assistance by the broadcaster before he was sacked. he chose to film and upload the5e moments on facebook — footage which shocked the world. since that moment, andy parker, alison 5 father, has dedicated himself to campaigning for tougher gun control laws in the us, especially when it comes to preventing people with mental health problems being able to get hold of them. he 5 written a book called for alison about his emmy—award winning reporter daughter, his grief and his efforts to stop gun violence and to hold social media companies like google, which owns youtube,

accountable for the material it makes available. let's talk to mr parker, live from new york in his first uk interview. tell our british audeince what ali5on was like. victoria wa5 victoria was wonderful, 5he inspired so many people. she touched so many people, she was accomplished, 5he was people, she was accomplished, 5he wa5 talented. the main thing is she was beautiful in5ide wa5 talented. the main thing is she was beautiful inside and out. and ju5t was beautiful inside and out. and just a wonderfully kind 5oul. was beautiful inside and out. and just a wonderfully kind soul. and you have never seen any of the footage of the moment alison lost her life. how important is it that

you never see it? i have never seen it, i never want to see it and it is extremely important that i never see it. what parent would want to see his child die? it is available on youtube and one has to sign in specifically to see it, with some links, but it is still there. what do you think about that? it is exactly what i am trying to accomplish with engaging the georgetown university civil rights law clinic. they are not a shabby organisation by any stretch. they are working on my behalf to strongly encourage google, which is an understatement, to remove these videos, to make it easierfor families like me, victims that have lost loved ones, like the sandy hook

families, we have all been subject to harassment and we want to see that behaviour stopped. google has behaved like a bunch of sociopaths. they have sent us this statement, we remove videos violating this policies when a flood to us and we age restrict some material which contains images that may be unsuitable for younger users. what do you think of that statement? they violate their own terms of service regularly. the way they adjudicate whether a video is suitable or not is strictly arbitrary and ad hoc. they violate copyright. i own a digital rights to the footage and

they just ignore my digital rights to the footage and theyjust ignore my insisted that theyjust ignore my insisted that they take it down. imagine a human being, someone saying you have to watch a video of your daughter's murder and tell us why we should ta ke murder and tell us why we should take this down. who would do that other than someone like isis? and yet google does it on their platforms, on youtube, they cooperate sometimes and then they just disappear. we want to be able to put the onus, the other piece of this letter that went to google a couple of days ago to their chief legal counsel, we won google to essentially put the onus on people that upload these heinous videos and say why should we put this on our platform? they do not do it, they put the onus on us which is com pletely put the onus on us which is

completely wrong. and that is what you call them sociopaths? yes. it is shameful, it is disgraceful and this is the way they operate and they are not alone. facebook does the same thing, twitter does the same thing. u nfortu nately thing, twitter does the same thing. unfortunately in the united states these platforms is iso— protected by law it makes it extremely difficult to call them out. so theyjust do what they want to do. every day since alison died you have done your best to spread a message of gun violence prevention. is anyone in the states listening?” violence prevention. is anyone in the states listening? i think so. i think so. i came out swinging the day alison was killed and slowly but surely i think it has made a difference. if you look at the elections in virginia in 2017, the state elections, democrats ran on

gun control and they picked up 15 seats in the house of delegates. clearly you saw what happened in the midterms in the united states congress. democrats took over the house. years before, five years ago, democrats were afraid of the issue and now they are embracing the issue because the public wants something done. but then i looked last week in response to the house passing legislation to improve gun background checks on the white house has that they would recommend that the president vetoes the legislation because it would play burdensome requirements that are incompatible with the second amendment‘s guarantee of an individual right to keep our how do you respond to that customer that is the typical dog whistle and it is completely expected. our thinking is, and our feeling is, that if you cannot change their minds, then you change their seats and that is what

happened in the house. that is what is going to happen in 2020 in the senate, and it will happen if trump is still there by 2020, whoever is going to win the white house will be a democrat running on gun control. listen, 97% of the population in this country wants something done. you cannot get 97% of americans to agree that mother's day is a good thing. yet this issue isjust very important and people have had enough in this country and i think we are seeing that. so the tide is turning. in your book you do not spare the readerfrom describing in your book you do not spare the reader from describing the absolute paying of the grief that you have experienced after losing alison. why was it important for you to go into such detail so that that was not glossed over in anyway? victoria, i

am glossed over in anyway? victoria, i a m co nsta ntly glossed over in anyway? victoria, i am constantly met with the comment i cannot imagine. i cannot imagine. well, i think it is important for people to imagine and that is what i have done in the book. it is imagining the worst thing that can happen to a person, to have their still ripped from them, to have this huge hole in your heart and explain what it is like, but then also what it is like to come through it and how to manage it. i don't want to call it a self—help book, but you can say that possibly it is. but i think it is important for the reader to understand. we are very grateful for your time, to understand. we are very grateful foryourtime, mr to understand. we are very grateful for your time, mr parker. to understand. we are very grateful foryourtime, mr parker. thank to understand. we are very grateful for your time, mr parker. thank you for your time, mr parker. thank you for talking to us. thank you for having me, iappreciate for talking to us. thank you for having me, i appreciate it. and the

book is called for alison, by andy parker. 0ne comment, thank you for your investigating crowdfunding for cancer patients abroad. sarah says, i want to thank you for highlighting this. my mother is living with secondary breast cancer and it is impossible to do everything that is possible. a big shout out to the amazing nhs and all who have done so much for me. part two of the investigation tomorrow at ten o'clock on bbc two and the bbc news channel. have a good day. good morning, we have had a fairly miserable start to the day, lots of

menacing clouds out there giving us rain and showers. the rain and the hill snow will continue across scotla nd hill snow will continue across scotland as we go through this afternoon. for england and wales heavy showers expected today giving longer spells of rain with hail and thunder mixed in with that blustery wind. despite that temperature is for england and wales i 13—15. chile are in scotland and northern ireland, 7—9. to the south over it will remain dry and these are the overnight temperatures. as we go through thursday it will remain fairly unsettled with rain in northern and western areas. that will move gradually south and is with brighter skies developing later on in the day. temperatures will be down for england and wales, 8—11, still about 7—9 in the north.