this is newsday. i'm nuala mcgovern in london. the headlines: the us government over access huawei isn't backing down. to federal contracts. the chinese technology giant is expected to announce it's suing the announcement comes the us government. as the company's chief financial officer meng wa nzhou appeared it comes on the same day the company's chief financial at a canadian court to fight officer appears at her first extradition to the united states. extradition hearing in canada. the american singer r kelly is back i'm rico hizon in singapore. in custody after a court hearing also in the programme: in chicago on unpaid child support. behind bars — the us singer r kelly officials said the singer would be is back in custody after a court detained until he paid more hearing over unpaid child support. than $160,000 that were owed. and why many foreign students and this video is are choosing australia rather than britain or america to study. trending on bbc.com. it's scotland's first minister nicola sturgeon got quite the surprise today after baby grace threw up on her during a visit to a local hospital. she saw the funny side, though, joking that there are many people who would love to do the same. that's all. stay with bbc news. now on bbc news, hardtalk.

welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. may's european parliamentary elections could be a defining moment in the struggle for the eu's future, a continent wide clash between the forces of liberalism and populism, perhaps best personified by french president emmanuel macron, up against hungary's viktor 0rban. well, my guest today is italy's former centre—left prime minister, paolo gentiloni. politically, he's with emmanuel macron, but his country is led by populists sympathetic to mr 0rban. so, which message is resonating with europe's voters?

paolo gentiloni, welcome to hardtalk. let me ask you a very simple question. do you feel like a stranger in your own land today, just one year after that election which you lost so resoundingly? no, you could neverfeel a stranger in your own country. 0bviously, i'm not talking for the italian government, i have my own opinions, and they are the opinions of the opposition. but it's not like a normal switch between parties, this was a massive change, almost a revolution in the political culture in rome. for the first time, we had anti—politicians who were voted into office in rome. yes, and something happened in this nine months

after the new government took office. these two forces changed very much their relation, of course, so now we have a more nationalistic, right—wing government, more a nationalistic government than an antiestablishment government. so you mean, within that coalition, the five star movement has lost significant ground to the nationalists of the league, led by matteo salvini? yes, the five star movement is in a sort of sunset mood, and salvini is leading the game. and we'll talk a lot about what gives salvini his particular strength in italy today but before we get there, let's talk about you, let's talk about the losers, and let us be blunt, you were, and your party, the democratic party, were the big losers of that significant election

result in italy last year. let me quote to you a respected italian historian, vera cappellucci, she said "the italian political class on both the mainstream right and left is now widely perceived as a failure." to put it lightly, there has been, people had their chance and they blew it. we lost the elections. you should say more than that. i don't think that losing the elections, for us in italy, i'm not talking about other countries, because we will, if you like, but about italy, losing the elections was very serious for us but gradually, we are recovering. i would just mention to you the fact that on sunday, two days ago, almost 2 million people took part in a popular vote to choose the new leader

of the party, and this is presented now, since a couple of days, as a rebirth or even a revanche. well, it is only going to be a rebirth if matteo 0rfini has significant new ideas, if he has new ideas which can connect with the centre—left, the liberal left in italy with the voters, in a way that was not possible under your leadership. —— mister zingaretti. perfect. that's exactly what we will try to do in the next months before the next italian elections, and also before the european elections, because our party, with other forces in the centre—left, have the possibility in this european election in two months and a half now to show one thing, that the nationalist salvini leadership is not so strong as it appears.

the last polls i saw and of course we cannot rely too much on polls, but the last polls i saw had your party, the democratic party, support around i7%, and the league's support around 32%, so you have got a long mountain to climb and it is about the lessons you have learned. what lessons did you learn, former prime minister of italy, about the failure of your sort of centre—left politics to fundamentally address italy's economic problems to start with? italy with an unemployment rate of around 7% when you left office, you failed to find solutions. -- 1196. youth unemployment was 30%. i would not say this, obviously. i think the people of italy who did not have jobs under your leadership, they would say it. it is not always clear that when you lose elections you did everything wrong in the government, because it is not always the case.

i think we made serious mistakes, but at the same time i'm proud of the fact that we took italy in a very difficult and serious economic situation in 2011, 2012, after the berlusconi government. and you left it in a very serious economic situation. no, absolutely not. there is very low growth, high unemployment, and a debt mountain which you really have not addressed. this is simply not true. we left italy with a decent level of growth, which was 1.7%, which is not so bad, with declining unemployment, with the best result in exports in our last 30 years, and so on and so forth. forgive me, but i think some italians listening to this might say well, here we go, another liberal

elite politician who simply refuses to recognise that he needs to change. no, i think there is more than this, that we have to be aware of the fact that having a good result on macroeconomics does not mean having a good result for the people. not automatically, this is of course crystal clear in italy. yes, of course we had growth, yes, we had lower unemployment, yes, we had a betterfinance balance in the country, but this was not something perceived by the people as something making their condition better. which brings us rather neatly into discussion of immigration, the whole migration issue. of course, the crisis really came home to europe in 2015 but italy had been dealing with it even before then because more and more people have been coming in small boats from north africa to your coastline,

the numbers went on the thames to the hundreds of thousands. —— to the tens. again, the problem for you in the centre—left is that yougov and italy in that period up till 2018, is that you seemed incapable of finding solutions that the italian people could believe in. do you least except that? we found a solution at the end of our five years‘s term, especially in 2017. we managed to reduce migration flows in a very, very remarkable way. there is a contradiction that perhaps explains what we are talking about. my government finished its term with a very high level of popularity, 52% of consensus in the country. my government was defeated at the elections. yes.

this means that the italian people perceived that that that the government was doing itsjob in a good way, and is it was working on the right track. but they perceived also the party as something that did not function in the last five years. for them. for the people. exactly. and this is what we are changing now. politics is an emotional business and in this particular era, perhaps a motion is more important than ever. —— emotions are. and here's a quote from one of your former ministers, who i think was europe affairs minister for while in your government, to quote goes like this. "what went wrong is that we did not manage to fight the perception that italy was being invaded by an migratory flows,

there was an emotional feeling that many italians had in the surveys point to it, which you and your government simply could not address." why? why was the centre—left simply not able to deal with migration in an emotional way? the perception of an invasion of migrants is something that you have to deal with very seriously. just think to the fact that britain and ireland was convinced during the referendum that it was having the danger of a migration invasion, and it is an island and they did not have in britain 200,000 people coming by boat as we had in italy, so the idea of this invasion is some thing that you have to deal with in politics today in europe. matteo salvini addressed it head on, he said he would no longer allow the ngos, humanitarian boats cruising the mediterranean to bring migrants on to italy's shores, he has since gone further and said they cannot even enter italian coastal waters.

he took tough decisions, he said he was going to eliminate the migration problem. italian people felt that he was talking their language and was addressing the issue in a way that emotionally connected with them. could you do that? or is this something that only the right and the far right is capable of doing and saying? the fact is that we did that, not salvini. what is salvini doing? he is working on the results that can be achieved, —— that we achieved, but not only working on the results that we achieved but he is adding to these results are managing migration flows, that were reduced 85% from my government, not from the salvini government. he is adding to this a very dangerous propaganda. i never closed italian ports, when we reached 21,000 people in one single day. he is closing italian ports

when we reach 45 persons in a single boat, and this is not managing migration flow, this is propaganda. is this propaganda it useful to have some good result in the surveys? yes, it is. but here is the thing, howell you as a politician react... i think it is very dangerous for our country. —— how. so mr salvini stands in the polls right now at something like 53% approval, i checked your own personal approval ratings and they stand at something like 17%. you cannot mix the personal approval with the party's approval. so if you look at the personal approval, salvini approval is about 50% in my personal approval is about 43%, this is the personal approval. the party approval, salvini is about 30%, 32%, and our parties about 19, 20%.

well, your numbers are different from the ones... no, no, my numbers are correct, i assure you. things change very rapidly. we were talking before this about the sunset of the five star movement. yeah. they were 24% in the last elections, they are now 21%, 22%, so they have lost half of their people voting for them in this period. so, i only say that what salvini is doing, for example, making propaganda that with 46 poor migrants, closing our ports and living the tradition of our country is not solving the migration problem. he is creating a basis for hatred positions in my country,

this is very dangerous. no, i understand what you are saying, i am just think about the politics of this. there is another aspect of it, which is that mr salvini and his colleagues in the coalition and the five star movement as well, luigi di maio and his associates, they are inclined to blame the eu for a lot of italy's problems, including the migration problem. they claimed that the eu wants to tie italy's cans it's back so it cannot respond nationally to the migration challenge, they also claimed that the eu is tying italy's cans economically with the strict fiscal rules in the eurozone. you had a choice to make when you are leaving italy and you often did blame europe to a certain extent for problems inside italy and mario monti, a former prime minister, he got very angry with what he saw from both centre—left and centre—right and said you guys did not stand up properly for the eu, you allowed the blame reflex to come into play in italian politics, which mr salvini has since used. do you plead guilty to that?

well, salvini has been, in the nine months, an extraordinary promoter of consensus for eu in italy. this can appear strange, but eu was rather unpopular, you are right, a couple of years ago in italy... yeah, and you often... ..because of the fact that we felt and we were isolated in facing the migration challenge and because of economic choices. but the fact is that now, after we saw — not we — the italian citizens saw the new government and its job, the consensus to eu gain more or less 15 points. so, now, eu is much more popular than it was two years ago. i don't know in britain, but for sure in italy,

this is the case. well, we might talk britain later, but the interesting thing about salvini in the eu... salvini's a strong promoter of eu in my country. yes, but, you know what he's done? he's done something very interesting. he's decided to be less openly eurosceptic, but instead, he's decided to have this bold ambition to change the eu after his own image, to turn the eu into something he can work with because it will be full of like—minded people, thus he's building his political axis with the nationalists in poland and hungary and elsewhere. how concerned are you that salvini, with his supporters in other countries, is actually going to use these european elections to build a new anti—migration right—wing populist consensus? well, we will have an anti—migration position in the european parliament for sure. for sure? yes, it will be a minority position, according to the service.

now, this position will have more or less 15% of the members of the parliament, so it is not crucial to decide the political balance and the political leaderships that we will have in eu. this balance and this leadership will be pro—european and decided by traditional political european families. i mean, christian democrats, social democrats and liberal together, but... the old elite in other words. yes, well... the elite that, from the beginning of this interview, we've discussed whether or not the european voters believe in the eu... the elite now in my country is salvini. i am not the elite. the elite is mr salvini. he is the one going... i'm not sure people's perception change that quickly, but maybe... you think that trump is the elite or the elite is alexandria 0casio—cortez? who is the elite?

well, that's a very interesting debate. how quickly do people's perceptions change? yeah, it is rapidly changing. so...but i am not saying that having 15% will be insignificant, because with 15%, and with some national populists inside the conservative european popular party, these positions could have an influence. and what's fascinating to me... so, europe will not change, but they will have an influence. europe will not change, you say. but think about this — i began this with an introduction which suggested that emmanuel macron perhaps epitomises a europe of liberal—minded reform, which is juxtaposition — the counterpoint to salvini, viktor 0rban and the others on the populist nationalist right. now, you have always been sympathetic to macron. when he was elected in france, you hailed it as a great hope for all of europe.

today, in france, we see macron in real trouble with the gilets jaunes, with the protests across the country. do you still feel as confident as you did that macron—style politics can take european voters with it? i think that pro—european positions will have a clear majority in the next elections. i hope that also in italy, the majority of the non pro—european forces will change, and this is an open issue. but with the league, as you've already admitted, the league's still the most popular party in italy. yes, in this moment, absolutely. it is unlikely that you and your centrist centre—left politics are going to make a sudden resurgence in italy. but unlikely things happen in politics, as you know. something happened in this country, very unlikely.

but we come back to this simple question which — we come back to the nub of this whole conversation, which is, what have you learnt? what is new about your political offer today that wasn't there just one year ago? how are you going to connect with voters in a new way? as i told you, first one, growth is not exactly the only solution that you need. so, yes, we achieved growth with our governments again, but a growth that was not sustainable from a social point of view, and from an environmental point of view. this, i think, was the main issue. and the second one was, yes, but are you, as centre—left government, able to manage the migration threat, the migration challenge? well, i think we have good answers to both these questions. we already began give these answers and the message... and these answers are notjust technocratic, they're emotional, are they?

they're answers that will have an emotional connection. and the message i want to give to those that are listening to us is that things are changing in my country. you are right — you need emotions. when almost 2 million people go to vote for a new leader of our party, this means that against this government, there is now an emotional wave in the country, and this, i think, is a big responsibility for us because we have to accept this act of faith in our party and transform it in something competitive with the new national populistic government. but things are very different from where they were one year or eight months ago, and they are changing. they are, and we know in britain

that politics can change fast and the demotion is a vital ingredient. you can see that in our brexit debate. just a final thought from you — as an outside senior european politician looking in to britain and its extended brexit crisis, how different is the eu going to be when — and i say when — britain ultimately leaves? we don't quite know when its going to be, it's supposed to be march 29th, but how is it going to change the eu? well, i hope only in the economics mostly. it will be a very hard change in economics, in trade, a very serious problem for europe, a catastrophic problem for uk — this is my opinion. i do hope that not so much will change from a geopolitical point of view, because i think that eu and uk, in any case, even after brexit, are, in a certain sense, obliged to cooperate in such

a complicated world. we need to work together because we have at stake some common values — freedom, free trade, welfare state, the democratic liberties, and even multilateralism. so, i hope that from a geopolitical point of view, eu and uk will continue to be strong allies. and i am rather confident, and i am sure that italy could do a contribution, could give a contribution to this attitude, that this is the right way, we are friends even if britain will leave the club. we have to end there. paolo gentiloni, i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you very much.

thank you. hello. a vigorous jet stream pushing areas of low pressure right across the uk is the weather pattern we're in. and we are staying in all the way through the weekend into next week as well. here is a recent satellite picture. this is swirl of cloud is an area of low pressure, edging its way eastwards. but as it does that it is dragging in behind it some colder air as well. and what will be a strong and gusty wind as we go on through thursday. we've still got some wet weather

to clear away as well. most noticeable, for thursday's weather, will be that strong wind. and for many of us how much colder it feels compared with wednesday. this is how we are starting the day. nothing particularly cold first thing, there is too much wind and cloud for the temperatures to have dropped two for overnight, and this is where we are starting the day with wet weather through northern ireland, scotland, some hill snow. it is pushing slowly southwards during the day, but not much reaching the far south of wales or southern england until quite late on. and, again, that's moving south with strong, gusty winds. let us take a wind speeds and temperatures during the afternoon at three o'clock and where the wet weather will be. very gusty winds. much of scotland will be brightening up. a few showers following on. wintry on the hills. brightening up for northern ireland through the afternoon. a lot of cloud through northern england, into the midlands, east anglia, with the outbreaks of rain pushing south. bright spells in south wales into southern england, maybe the odd passing show during the day. also very gusty winds. in the evening we will pick up showers in the far south and south—east. that is clearing away on thursday night and into friday morning. as that happens and the winds

eventually ease, temperatures will drop away. plenty of widespread frost as friday begins. temperatures will be lower, away from towns and city centres. highland scotland could be —5 or —6 as friday begins. the odd mist and fog match. a lot of sunshine to start the day, not going to last. quite quickly cloud increasing from the west. quite a cold feeling day. you can see more hill snow to come in scotland out of that. that's friday covered. i want to show you the big picture for the weekend. still with the jet stream driving weather disturbances across us. it will be wet at times over the weekend. looks to be pretty windy throughout the weekend as well. but still something to play for in the detail aboutjust how wet and when it will be wet. so keep up—to—date with the latest forecast, but these are the main thing is for the weekend. just bear in mind it's not going to be wet all the time, there will be some

sunshine at times, too. wilson—raybould