Skip to main content

tv   Afternoon Live  BBC News  March 12, 2019 2:00pm-5:00pm GMT

2:00 pm
this is bbc news — our latest headlines. today at 5: theresa may is facing theresa may makes the prospect of another parliamentary defeat within a few a last—minute plea to mp5, calling for them to back her amended hours on her brexit deal. brexit deal tonight — or risk no brexit at all. making her way to the commons i think everybody needs to recognise after late—night talks hello, you're watching that those who generally afternoon live — in strasbourg, the prime want to deliver brexit, minister claimed she'd now i'm simon mccoy live at westminster. achieved the assurances mps had asked for. the danger for those of us today at 2 — time to who want to deliver, make your minds up — that if this deal does not go to have faith with the british in six hours time mps will have to public and deliver on their vote vote on theresa may's brexit deal. for brexit, is that if this vote through tonight then this house but — in a blow for risks no brexit at all. is not passed tonight, the prime minister — but labour leaderjeremy corbyn if this deal is not passed, the attorney general says says the prime minister has then brexit could be lost. the changes agreed last night failed to achieve any changes in strasbourg are not enough for him to change his legal advice — the prime minister has, to the withdrawal agreement. while saying they do reduce the risk despite a very extensive delays, of the uk being stuck in the so—called irish backstop. the prime minister, achieved not a single change let me make it clear: despite very extensive delay, has achieved not a single change to the withdrawal agreement. to the withdrawal agreement. not one single word has changed. the legal risk, as i set not one single word has changed. it out in my letter the democratic unionist party the mood was set earlier in the day of the 13th of november, and the tory brexiteer erg group say they won't support her either — when the attorney—general said remains unchanged. after the attorney general the risk of the uk being tied said her amended deal isn't enough to eu rules after brexit so is this a killer for him to change his legal advice. blow for may's deal? had been reduced, the pro leave european let me make it clear. but was still there. research group is indicating it will vote against it. the legal risk, as i set it out in my letter of the 13th of november, remains unchanged.
2:01 pm
if the legal advice is that it and in other news, the uk hasn't changed, i don't see how we is suspending all boeing 737 could support it. max aircrafts from its airspace the civil aviation authority after sunday's crash in ethiopia — suspends boeing 737 max boeing says it has full confidence aircrafts from arriving, departing orflying over uk airspace, after an ethiopian airlines plane of the same model in the jets' safety. crashed at the weekend. coming up on afternoon welcome back to westminster, where theresa may has opened live all the sport. the brexit debate in the house of commons — ahead of this evening's vote on the amended deal she brought back last night from strasbourg. she's trying to persuade mps to swing behind her — to avoid a repeat of the historic the cheltenham festival is underway, national hunt racing's defeat she suffered injanuary — showpeice four day meeting, but already the democratic unionist party and the erg group of brexiteer mps have signaled that they won't but tomorrow's racing is under give her their support. the prime minister warned mps that threat because of the weather. if they made the wrong choice, they could lose brexit altogether. and now the weather forecast. heavy alastair campbell — the labour party's former rain in london, and heavy rain in director of communications — other parts of the uk, it has all who now campaigns for another been because of storm gareth which is going to bring more heavy rain referendum joins us now. but also severe gales, there is the you seem to have a slightly bigger risk of disruption in the next 24—hour is and i will have the low smile on yourface, are down later on. thanks forjoining you seem to have a slightly bigger smile on your face, are you sensing
2:02 pm
things are going your way?” smile on your face, are you sensing us. things are going your way? i think this whole process has been so unpredictable at every stage, but i stay with us this afternoon have thought for a long time that it as we'll be bringing you all the latest in the run up will end up going back to the people to this evening's vote. because the brexit promised is undeliverable. i think the negotiations have shown that. the brea ks negotiations have shown that. the breaks it theresa may is negotiating is clearly not going down well with hello, everyone — this is afternoon live — pretty much anybody in the country. i'm simon mccoy. —— the breaks. i think government ata at a rather miserable westminster and parliament have to acknowledge but it is quite warm in the building that unless we talk about this for behind me. the rest of our lives, you will only the government's most senior lawyer, the attorney—general, get the clarity and closure everyone has said the risk of britain wa nts get the clarity and closure everyone wants if you actually have a being stuck in the so—called irish backstop after brexit still remains, credible form of brexit put that despite an agreement struck back to the people and ask if this by theresa may in strasbourg last night. is what they want. if people say no mrs may said she had secured ‘legally—binding' assurances on the backstop, to that we should stay in the eu. designed to avoid a hard border in ireland. there seem to be a sense at the in his advice, geoffrey cox said beginning of this morning of let's the changes still mean the uk can't wait—and—see what the attorney pull out of the arrangements general has to say, because if he on its own — but he said the risk backs theresa may there is a chance of being unable to leave the backstop was reduced. more will change their minds. how the pro—leave european research important was what he had to say?“ group says they can't recommend mps
2:03 pm
support the deal while labour claims the government's strategy was important but it shouldn't have for leaving the eu is in tatters. been any surprise. it's not as if the detail of what he was discussing here's our political correspondent, alex forsyth. is new to anyone. this is the stuff westminster is bracing itself they have been talking about for for another big moment, months. i don't think i was remotely one that will decide the fate surprised. the only thing i was of the prime minister's worried about was that she had made brexit plan. last night, theresa may flew him a player instead of a referee in to strasbourg for last—minute talks this process, that he might lean too and said she had secured changes far in her direction. to be 30 him, to her brexit deal that should allow mps to back it. today we have secured legal changes. he isa far in her direction. to be 30 him, he is a referee and he is basically saying the things that the tory party and parliament said, but she we are now going to go to the house said she would get, she has not got of commons to hear from theresa may them. —— to be fair. the other live. it has been eight weeks since problem she has is that there are so the house held the meaningful vote many other things in the withdrawal on the brexit deal and on that day parliament sent a message that the agreements, and more importantly for deal needed to change and in me the political declaration, that make this a very bad deal and i response to government has worked ha rd to response to government has worked hard to secure an improved deal that don't think parliament should support it. you are assuming she responded to the concerns of this will lose tonight, then there is a house, and i took the concerns of
2:04 pm
vote tomorrow and avoiding a new this house about the backstop to the eu and sat down withjean—claude deal. how would that go?” juncker and donald tusk and i spoke to every single eu leads on multiple vote tomorrow and avoiding a new deal. how would that go? i don't know. parliament is clearly against occasions to make clear to them what no deal but the interesting question is what she should do in relation to needed to change. —— leader. the that and what she would allow her ministers to do. i think you are minister for exiting needed to change. —— leader. the ministerfor exiting the needed to change. —— leader. the minister for exiting the eu worked tirelessly with his opposite number pushing, i hope, some of those michel barnier. there were detailed cabinet ministers to the limit if you are saying to them that you have legal discussions. the result of to now support the idea of keeping this work is the improved brexit no deal on the table. she has to deal that is before the house today. realise, it has been almost tragic i will go on to explain in detail what has improved about the deal watching today the fact that the bren minister is standing there and since january and why i believe it deserves the support of every member this evening. i will give way. is it behind her, after half a dozen of the first exchanges, the places emptying out. —— the prime minister. one of the problems the house faced you have a sense of a prime minister in the previous session with the on her last legs because the dealers attorney general that we were on her last legs because the dealers on its last legs. and then something seeking legal answers to what were has to replace what's going on. i essentially political questions and have been thinking for a long time the political question that we now that that will go back to the people face is that if we don't pass this to say, on this basis, is this how
2:05 pm
motion, we stand to lose brexit in you want to proceed? an extension to its entirety? that is a very article 50 opens the door to a referendum? if she tries to get an important point, a lot of focus has been put on legal changes and i will extension, the first thing will be come onto the fact that they are the extent to which the eu and legally binding changes as a result british governments will argue about of the discussions since the vote on what that extension's length should the 29th of january. i would just be, and the key to that is what is com plete the 29th of january. i would just the purpose of the extension? there complete this. the right honourable gentleman is correct, the dangerfor isa the purpose of the extension? there those of us who want to deliver, to is a deadline because of the elections. that's because she has have faith with the british public played this game of running down the and deliver on brexit is that if clock and giving parliament this this vote is not past tonight, if choice of no deal or ideal, that is the deal is not passed, brexit could one of the extra issues that has to be lost. i thank you for giving way. be addressed. more important to me she may have lost her voice but is than saying now what the length it not true that will be to have a should be, it is that parliament second referendum 17.5 million decides what sort of brexit they are people would have lost their voice? going to be supporting. she has got herself in this mess because she has yes... cani tried to appeal and appease both people would have lost their voice? wings of her divided party, and yes... can i say, you will not be surprised, given what i have said whenever push has come to shove she
2:06 pm
before, that i entirely agree with has tended to go towards the erg and him,i before, that i entirely agree with it looks like she will get the him, i believe it is absolutely important and imperative for the house that we meet the decision that lesson today that you can't deal was taken by the british people in with all these people, there is no compromise with them. good to see 2016, that we deliver on that you. thank you very much. referendum, and that we deliver sport now on afternoon live. brexit for the british people. as i say there is a danger over failure to agree a deal that actually could end up in a situation where we have no brexit at all. i will give way. end up in a situation where we have no brexit at all. i will give waylj no brexit at all. i will give way.|j thank the prime minister for giving the cheltenham festival way. jean—claude juncker was very is underway, national hunt's showpiece 4 day meeting and we had a surprising result in the big race clear in his press conference that of the day the champion hurdle. the outsider espoir d'allen, priced at 16—1 trained this is the end of the road for by gavin cromwell and ridden by mark walsh came home 15 lengths clear. melon in second was priced at 20—1 with third placed negotiation and there is no further the favourite buveur d'air, negotiation and there is no further negotiation from here, does the aiming for a third win in the race government accept that and therefore was an early faller. what happens if her vote... her surprisingly feature race, the motion is defeated tonight? can i champion hurdle. tomorrow's racing is in doubt because of high winds forecast tomorrow. say, that is whatjean—claude organisers are concerned juncker said, that is absolutely about the saftey of spectators right, he made that clear to me and with temporary stands and marquees. there will be an inspection tomorrow
2:07 pm
morning and if racing is cancelled to ministers, it is what other leaders have made clear as well. i the whole seven race card will be moved to saturday. believe that tonight members of this house are faced with a very clear rotherham's will vaulks is in line choice. vote and support these deal for a first wales cap. in which case we leave the eu with the 25 year old midfielder has been the deal and i will explain why this called up by ryan giggs isa for a friendly against trinidad the deal and i will explain why this is a good deal —— support this deal. and tobago later this month and also their opening euro 2020 qualifier against slovakia or risk no deal or no brexit. these four days later. are the options, i will take a will grigg is back in the northern ireland squad further couple of interventions and for their euro qualifiers then i will try to make progress against estonia and belarus. the sunderland striker has missed their last three because i'm only a couple of pages into my speech. she will note that i games through injury. his fellow striker conor washington also returns — after missing the last four matches did not support the withdrawal becasue of personal reasons. both qualifiers are at windsor park agreement at the last vote and today so should give northern ireland i will support it. i will supported a great chance of starting their campaign strongly an enthusiastic —— and the final places enthusiastically because there is in the champions league quarterfinals will be taken over the danger that brexit will not be the next couple of nights. lost and there does not appear to be manchester city have a one goal lead
2:08 pm
the votes for no deal but they could heading into the second leg of their last 16 be the votes for an extension of tie against schalke. article 50, none of those would they won 3—2 in germany and those away goals should hold them in good deliver brexit, they would frustrate and delay it and possibly stop it stead but the manager altogether. the main reason i'm won't be complacent. supporting the government tonight is there has been a definitive legal it is one game, it is completely material change on the issue of the different. in one situation, imagine backstop and that is if the eu acts scoring one goal in five minutes. in bad faith, the uk can permanently that decision in the 18 yard box, red cards, and the squad go. so or on in bad faith, the uk can permanently orona in bad faith, the uk can permanently or on a temporary basis remove everything is open. that's why it itself. you are absolutely right. i has to be the focus because when we will address this point later in my are judging has to be the focus because when we speech, but it is very clear that we arejudging about has to be the focus because when we are judging about what happened in the last fixture is, ok, we are have already seen a vote in this house that has said no to no deal favourites. but it is one game and andi everything could happen. house that has said no to no deal and i think everybody needs to recognise that for those who want to torrential rain in california brought an early end to play deliver brexit, that if this deal at the indian wells masters. does not go through tonight, this novak djokovic only managed one game in his third—round match house risks no brexit at all. i will against philipp kohlschreiber before play was suspended. the world number one give way to the honourable lady. i'm
2:09 pm
held his serve against the german. very grateful to the prime minister. he wasn't out of the rain for long, though — djokovic found a patch the prime minister should spell out of grass for a knock—about. to the house that if we do not have posting on twitter: "it's never too early to practice for wimbledon". a deal tonight agreed tonight or the the world number three alexander zverev is out, arguments we have heard, those beaten by fellow german jan—lennard arguments we have heard, those arguments become academic. we were struff in straight sets. zverev say‘s he's not even enter into the been suffering for a implementation period and be given week with a virus. a few players have been taken the work on the alternative arrangements to deal with the backstop if we don't get a deal, so we have got to get a deal and then ill at the tournament. the implementation period. before we that's all the sport for now. i'll have more for even contemplate a backstop. on the you in the next hour. prime minister confirmed that we need a deal? —— will the prime minister confirm. can i thank you, thank you for that. she has set it out very clearly for the house and every member will have heard what she has said about that. isaidi we have been speaking to people in heard what she has said about that. i said i would make further
2:10 pm
progress. i want to remind the house bradford about what brexit means to of the core elements of the deal on them. it isjust dribbling to which these improvements are built. nothing, we are going nowhere. it will be a fudge deal and we will leave europe in name only. is that first of all the four reciprocal protection of the rights of eu citizens in the uk and uk citizens more than a 1—word answer? that's how i feel it is being done, badly in the eu, delivered by the deal, mismanaged. we will leave the implementation period that the eventually. in a form. we believe in honourable lady has referred to, to give everyone especially businesses one form or another. brexit is not the time to adjust and eliminate a cliff edge when we leave, that is good for this country, not good for delivered by the deal, the implementation period. the control the future. our businesses. i don't over tax payers money that comes from ending our vast annual think it is good for the country.” membership payments to the eu, voted to leave because frankly i am delivered by the deal. the end of free movement and replaced by a an independence man, ithink skills —based immigration system, voted to leave because frankly i am an independence man, i think it is right that we have our own laws. but delivered by the deal. the end of we controlled the level of the ecj jurisdiction in the uk at immigration. the level that we want, the ecj jurisdiction in the uk at the end of the common agricultural the type of people we once in the policy forfarmers, the end of the common agricultural policy for farmers, and the end of country. i'm not saying we close the the common fisheries policy, all of
2:11 pm
these are delivered by the deal. the doors. there are certain categories of employee but of course we need. closest possible economic relationship with our nearest and our own laws, some of the neighbours outside the single market directives that can out of the eu and the customs union, with are frankly ridiculous. businesses able to trade freely and without any tariffs and quotas or rules of origin checks. the ability detectives investigating the explosive devices sent to transport hubs in london, and to glasgow university last week — say a group calling itself the ira has claimed responsibility. the group made the claim to strike our own free deals around to a newspaper in belfast, using a recognised codeword. the world, all delivered by the our home affairs correspondent, daniel sandford gave us more details. deal. the closest security they said they were responsible for partnership between the eu and any five devices which had been sent to third country so our police and security services can keep on of them to army recruitment keeping us safe in a world that officers. actually only four devices contains many dangers. delivered by we re officers. actually only four devices were found last week, three at the deal. and by doing all of these london transport hubs and one addressed to an army recruitment things, the deal says and does officer at glasgow university. it something even more profound, it does appear that one device may still be missing, addressed to an sends a message to the whole world army recruitment officer. the police about the sort of country the uk are saying they know about this claim, they understand that a will be, and i will injust a recognised code word was used but they would still like to keep an
2:12 pm
open mind about who may be moment... to ourfriends responsible for the devices because will be, and i will injust a moment... to our friends and allies just because someone has claimed who have long looked up to us as a beacon of pragmatism and decency, they have —— are responsible, doesn't mean they did it. all the and a message to those who do not business news for you in a moment. share our values and whose interests theresa may makes diverged, it says this, the uk as a a last—minute plea to mp5, country that honours the democratic calling for them to back her amended brexit deal tonight, or risk no brexit at all. decisions taken by our people in but labour leaderjeremy corbyn says referendums and in elections. i will the prime minister has failed to achieve any changes give way. i'm extremely grateful to to the withdrawal agreement. and the uk is suspending all boeing 737 max aircrafts the prime minister. before she from its airspace after sunday's crash in ethiopia — continues with this hyperbole, what boeing says it has full confidence in the jets' safety. changes have come about to the agreement that were sought by the devolved governments in scotland and here's your business headlines on afternoon live: in wales or were there none? as the the boeing 737 max 8 plane, the model that was involved in the ethiopia air crash killing honourable gentleman knows the 157 people, has been banned devolved government in scotland from most major european airspace, including the uk. wa nts to devolved government in scotland wants to stay in the eu and that is however in the us the federal not a position that was taken by the aviation administration says
2:13 pm
british people and i believe that we the plane is safe to fly and has not should honour democratic decisions taken by the people. i will give restricted its operations in the us. way. as she will recall i voted against the withdrawal agreement in nissan has said it's stopping january and i'm pleased that the attorney general has been able to production of the sunderland achieve the concessions to the infiniti q30 sedan and the qx30 withdrawal agreement, what my sport—utility vehicle businesses want in my constituency is certainty, the certainty that the by the middle of this year. nissan has said it is pulling infiniti out of western europe, in order to focus prime minister will not give into on the us and china. the demands from the snp for a the uk economy grew by 0.5% in january, according second referendum and i think this to the latest official figures. deal gives the certainty of the country needs. i'm very happy to the office for national statistics says over the three month period give him the certainty, and i to the end of january, the economy grew byjust 0.2%. believe we should be delivering on the vote of the british people in manufacturing output came in better than expected, despite concerns for the sector 2016 but i also believe it is important that we give businesses ahead of brexit. the certainty for their future and there is only one certainty if we do not pass this vote tonight, and that is that uncertainty will continue that news from the caa in the uk for our citizens and for our
2:14 pm
will really worry boeing. yes, and you are seeing it on the market as businesses. may i ask the question well, the share price down about 5%. of the prime minister about the it was down about 13% at one point unilateral declaration and i thank her for listening as i have been yesterday. boeing extremely worried trying to make the case for this, but there is a question i put to the about what this will mean for the attorney general which has now been production. this is its latest answered. unilateral declaration aircraft and its real cash cow. it states that there is nothing to stop isa aircraft and its real cash cow. it is a real aeroplane which has the uk leaving the backstop if talks produced something like 30% of the break down? that is a very clear reve nu es of produced something like 30% of the revenues of its commercial division. unilateral statement. if talks break let's move on to our other big story. let's talk now, watching the down it doesn't have to improve, am i right down it doesn't have to improve, am iright in down it doesn't have to improve, am i right in saying this, that the eu have to prove good faith? it is a brexit debate. unilateral declaration and we do not the biggest casualty has been the pound which dropped by over have to use the worst conditional because the eu has not objected and a cent aghainst the dollar the moment the legal advice if we lay the declaration it is from the attorney general georffrey cox was released. it recovered a little but it's binding on the eu? can i say, one of still down about 1%. the stock market is up by a quarter of 1%. because it's dominated by big the key elements in relation to what international companies which make he has said, the unilateral so much of their money in dollars a falling pound is good for their
2:15 pm
declaration has not been objected to business and their profits, by the eu, that is what makes sure when it's translated into pounds. so their share prices, of its legal status and its legal in pounds, have gone up. basis. as he says, in the shanti kelemen is senior portfolio manager at coutts bank. circumstances in which it is not possible to agree the future relationship with the eu, the uk is recording its understanding that the pound falling quite sharply at nothing in the withdrawal agreement one point, and that is entirely as a will prevent it from instigating measures that could lead to this result of what has been said today. application of applications in relation to the protocol. i will make further progress before i give way again. this is a country, we are yes, if the deal hasn't changed substantially perhaps it makes it less likely that mps may change a country, where passionately held their mind and hand the government a views do not stop us from making victory after they lost substantially last time. i think at compromises to achieve progress, we area compromises to achieve progress, we this point there is no way to know are a country that values our national sovereignty and the how it will be resolved. our view at unbreakable bonds of a shared the bank is that it is most likely we will have some sort of agreement history and an independent future ora that connects us to our friends and we will have some sort of agreement or a delay. we think it is unlikely there will be a no—deal brexit which neighbours. a bad deal would be is the most important thing for worse than no deal but best of all investors and the people of britain. isa worse than no deal but best of all
2:16 pm
is a good deal and this is a good as the pound. the stock market does deal. mr speaker, members very well because of the large number of international companies which are registered here which are acknowledge many of the benefits delivered by the deal but traded here on the ftse 100. nevertheless rejected it injanuary, so let me set up what we have added which are registered here which are traded here on the ftse100. does that mean the worst the situation to the deal on the table since the last vote. on the rights of eu gets from the point of view of the markets, the better the stock market citizens we have waived the application fee so there is no performance? it can be true in terms financial barrierfor of company earnings but the other application fee so there is no financial barrier for any eu nationals who wish to stay. they are thing to remember is that if the uk our friends is unstable and the pound is nationals who wish to stay. they are ourfriends and nationals who wish to stay. they are our friends and neighbours and collea g u es our friends and neighbours and colleagues and they have added much falling, that makes it a less to our country and we want them to attractive place to invest for stay. on the rights of workers and international investors. if you are a dollar investor and invest in a uk environmental protections, assurances about the government's company and the stock goes up, the firm intentions were not enough so pound goes down, you are no better we have committed to protecting those rights and standards in law. off. i was just pound goes down, you are no better off. i wasjust going to move on to and if the eu expands workers' boeing. obviously we have seen rights we will debate those measures here in this parliament and that another fall boeing. obviously we have seen anotherfall in boeing. obviously we have seen another fall in its share this house will vote if we want to boeing. obviously we have seen anotherfall in its share price boeing. obviously we have seen another fall in its share price as a result of the increasing numbers of follow suit. in just a moment. people saying they don't want these planes flying in their airspace. how this house will vote if we want to
2:17 pm
follow suit. injust a moment. this parliament has set world leading standards and after we leave the eu bad is this damage getting for we will continue to do so. i will boeing? we don't really know yet give way. i hope that her voice because we don't know what the cause of the crash was. it could be a lasts out until the end of the speech. the dup have announced that human error. it is good for they are not supporting her deal, governments to be cautious and not fly planes if they are unsure about her own erg have announced they are not happy with the deal, doesn't she them, boeing does have a lot of other sources of revenue so they now think that she should have reached out across party lines from also have the 787 which is very popular. they have been trying to the beginning to seek a proper consensus across grow their services book. they also the beginning to seek a proper consensus across the country to give a chance of moving forward and will generate tremendous cash flow. i don't think it is the end of the she admit that her strategy has company but if there is another issue with this claim, because it is failed? i would say to the a large part of their revenue, they honourable lady that there have been will have to do work on it and it alternative approaches to the deal will have to do work on it and it will hurt the share price. in the thatis alternative approaches to the deal that is on the table that has been united states today some consumer proposed, propose the other week by figures out which looked reasonably good. it seems as though interest the leader of the opposition, which was comprehensively rejected by this rates have pretty much that the level they ought to be set. in terms house, and there has been no... we of growth, the economy seems to be have continued to work with members across this house and continue to onafairly
2:18 pm
work with members across this of growth, the economy seems to be on a fairly good track. yes, inflation was a little bit lower chamber, to understand the issues that need to be addressed. and what than people expected in the us, that is treated as positive news because we have done on workers' rights is one example of exactly that work. i if inflation is lower it means the federal reserve is less likely to raise interest rates. lower interest rates are raise interest rates. lower interest know... i'm going to make some rates a re better raise interest rates. lower interest rates are better for businesses and consumers in terms of being able to progress. i know that for many borrow and invest. it probably means members on this side of the house rates aren't going up soon. in the and also for the dup, the biggest short—term that is probably good for concern is about the more difficult issue which defies a simple equity markets. thank you very much. solution, the northern ireland backstop, it is a complex issue that reflects the complex history of these islands and the long and the inventor of the world wide web has warned it's become a space difficult road that successive for those who spread hatred. generations of british and irish sir tim berners—lee has called people have walked down to reach the on the public and politicians to come together to end its misuse peace and stability we have known in a letter to mark for the last 20 years. i have talked its 30th anniversary. about the backstop many times in he's been speaking to our technology correspondent, rory cellan—jones. speeches and in statements in this what kind of document was it? house and in northern ireland and i've explained why an insurance was it a mac word? policy to guarantee no hard border some sort of word processor on the mac. between ireland and northern ireland is necessary and i note that there 30 years ago, a computer scientist at the cern particle physics lab
2:19 pm
are concerns about how it might near geneva was thinking up a better operate, none greater than the fear way of sharing information. that the eu might seek to trap us in from tim berners—lee's idea, it indefinitely. along with the the world wide web was born, but today he's worried about what it's come, attorney general and the brexit a vehicle for spreading secretary, i fought hard and hate and misinformation. explored every idea to address these i feel for most people out concerns including a time limit, a on the street, the tipping point to a certain extent unilateral exit mechanism and the was the cambridge analytica moment because most people, replacement of the backstop with alternative arrangements. the house knows how complex were two work and they knew internet privacy ultimately you have got to practice was something other people worried about, and then the possible and i'm certain we have when the cambridge analytica thing went down, they realised that secured the best changes which were elections had been manipulated using data that they contributed. available, and as the honourable who do you blame for that? lady made clear it has been absolutely clear that this is the this person got all this data deal. i will give way. the prime and he got it under the pretext that he was going to use it for research purposes minister knows why i will not be and he actually used it voting for the deal because it will to manipulate an election. i think at that point, make my constituents poorer and less when data was amassed for one purpose and abused, safe, but on the advice from the a clear breach. attorney general, could you confirm are you optimistic it can be sorted? whether she was given a preliminary advice on saturday or sunday that he optimistic in general?
2:20 pm
i think so. was unlikely to be able to change his advice in the way the prime a new generation of young people minister wished? the attorney who are also pretty active, pretty activist about things like their privacy where general has been involved in the to a certain extent discussions we have been having with the eu but at the end of the day it they weren't before. i think we've got both the ability is up to him to make his legal opinion and to give his legal advice and the motivation to try to do to the house which is exactly what he has done. is it not the case that the right thing on both governments and companies, so long as individuals, not necessarily protesting in the streets, if parliament votes against the deal holding them to account. and then in the forthcoming days we re over the last 30 years, and then in the forthcoming days were to vote for an extension, would you still believe the web has wouldn't that not only be incredibly bad for businesses who desperately been a force for good? wa nt bad for businesses who desperately want an end to the uncertainty but also risks putting the ball into the eu's court for determining the terms of the extension? you are absolutely i think it's been a force for good for the first 15 of those and right now, it's really right. it would just extend in the balance whether... i'm very concerned about nastiness uncertainty, and secondly it is not and misinformation spreading. a guarantee that any extension would i think with a mid—course be agreed by the eu or that they correction, the contract
2:21 pm
would agree an extension by the terms in which the uk asked for it. for the web's about, let's stop this downward plunge towards a very dysfunctional future, an extension has got to be agreed by let's turn it around. with a turnaround, a midcourse all of the parties and that includes correction, i am optimistic it can. the 27 members of the eu. i will that was tim berners—lee talking to our technology give way. i will give her a moment correspondent, rory cellan—jones. to get another cup suite for the chancellor. it is clear that the lets have a look at the currencies. you can see the ftse 100 prime minister is going to lose tonight and lose badly, which will lets have a look at the currencies. you can see the ftse100 gaining. drag this place and alsojobs and the most important thing is that it is because of the full in the value businesses over the edge with the of the pound which makes the profit, threat of a no deal, it is a responsible thing to do now not to the overseas profits of so many of seek that extension so that we can those companies in the ftse100, get some kind of way out out of this makes them look better. as a result calamity? the way out of the you see the market moving up. the dow down 97 points from yesterday. situation is to have faith with the british people and vote for the deal the big issue here is boeing. and this evening that gives them what they voted for in the referendum. i also the other big airlines stocks, will give way. many of us would have all of them falling quite sharply. boeing was the best performer on the preferred the circumstance where we dow up until this point. it has
2:22 pm
could unilaterally withdraw from fallen something like 14 or 15% over this agreement and that does not apply after what the attorney general said earlier, and that means the last couple of days. as a result we are going to into a circumstance where they will be a great deal of of the suspension of flights of its trust over how we resolve the backstop and in particular over the 737 max eight plane following the issue of whether the alternative arrangements will be acceptable to disaster in indonesia. you are the eu and the republic of ireland. seeing that pulling the dow down. some of those arrangements have previously been rejected, can she some people quite surprised it hasn't fallen further. upward tell the house whether she detected pressure on the american market, some of it is coming from apple any change in mood regarding the eu which is doing particularly well. it and the republic of ireland in terms has announced its having an event on ofa and the republic of ireland in terms of a constructive outcome regarding the border? what has been obvious is the 25th of march and expected it is going to be announcing a tv and a changing willingness from the eu video service. that is all from to be actively working on those alternative arrangements. it was not business. more later. now time for a possible to complete that work in look at the weather. time for the timetable we have, but good afternoon. storm gareth will dominate the weather across the uk the firm commitments that have been over the next 24—hour is. it will given and the documents we have bring some strong winds, severe negotiated with the eu, they show gales likely in places. already
2:23 pm
that willingness on their side to be seeing some heavy rain. likely to actively working with us to find alternative arrangements and to define them in a way which means the bring travel disruption, perhaps localised damage. this is the backstop can in a indeed be satellite picture, look at this beautiful swirl of cloud. this is replaced. i will make some progress. the storm system, killed their tucking into it, adding to the there are three elements to the improved deal on the backstop and i instability on the southern edge. that is where we will have the wa nt to improved deal on the backstop and i want to deal with those. the first isa strongest winds. ahead of it some want to deal with those. the first is a joint instrument, not a further exchange of letters, but something really heavy rain. this is the radar with legal weight to the withdrawal picture from earlier today. the wet weather sinking south eastwards. agreement. it provides a new some of it turning to snow over high concrete legally binding commitment ground because much cold there that the eu cannot act with the intent of applying the backstop tucking in behind that frontal indefinitely. doing so would breach system. temperatures between five the obligations of the eu and could and 8 degrees, plenty of showers. as be challenged through arbitration. we get into this evening, the winds were the eu to be found in breach the uk could choose to disband the will start to pick up. it is looking backstop and with that —— choose to like an exceptionally windy spell. parts of the north coast of northern suspend the backstop. in these ireland this evening and tonight could see wind gusts up to 80 mph. circumstances we could also take proportion of measures to suspend widely across northern ireland, western and southern scotland,
2:24 pm
the payments of the financial northern england, gusts of 60 to 70 settle m e nt the payments of the financial settlement and just as important the mph. away from these areas it will joint instrument gives a legal commitment that whatever replaces bea mph. away from these areas it will be a very windy night, gusts towards the backstop does not need to repeat the south of 40 to 50 mph. lots of it, providing it meets the underlying objectives of no hard showers on those strong north—westerly winds. some of the border between northern ireland and showers heavy and wintry over high ireland. i will give way. ground in the north. overnight temperatures ranging from four to 7 border between northern ireland and ireland. iwill give way. she border between northern ireland and ireland. i will give way. she talked about the eu suspending and the bad faith of the uk being a beacon degrees. tomorrow a blustery start. still some strong and gusty winds across the world, but when 28 first thing. only slowly easing a little bit as the day wears on. a countries went to salzburg in novemberand mixture of sunshine and showers, countries went to salzburg in november and strike a deal, who later ratted on the deal, leaving some of them heavy. some hail and under. some wintry knits mixed in the 27 high and dry? her government? over high ground. temperatures actually not looking too bad between nine and 12 degrees. behind it our cani the 27 high and dry? her government? can i say, his history is a little next weather system sliding into the wrong because actually the agreement picture, and other frontal system working in wednesday night into on the withdrawal agreement and the thursday. quite a lot of light lines political declaration as a future framework were not agreed in on the pressure chart, so a windy speu salzburg, they were agreed later on the pressure chart, so a windy spell of weather continues as we
2:25 pm
last year in november in brussels, head towards the end of the week. a and secondly he says who was it who mixture of heavy downpours, and little bit of sunshine but it does went back on the deal, the stay very blustery. government? no, we voted for the deal, the eu voted against it. cheering if he wants to look for an example of bad faith, look in the mirror. some colleagues... i will give way. she referred a moment ago to the possibility of the uk suspending the operation of the northern ireland protocol, in his legal advice published today the attorney general talked also about measures to this apply the provisions of the protocol, can she tell the house whether suspension which has to be temporary under the withdrawal
2:26 pm
agreement and this application are one and the same thing or are they different? can i say that in fact if you look at the arrangements in the withdrawal agreement and is supported by the new instruments we have negotiated, it is the case that if suspension takes place over a period of time, such that it is then obviously obvious that the arrangements were no longer necessary they would not have been in place and everything would have been operating without those arrangements, and actually a termination of those arrangements is possible within the arrangements. some colleagues were concerned that the political declaration says that the political declaration says that the future relationship... i will make more progress. the political declaration says the future relationship will build and improve on these arrangements and we now have a binding commitment that whatever replaces the backstop does not have to repeat them. the
2:27 pm
instrument contains commitments on how they deliver the alternative arrangements and immediately after the ratification of the withdrawal agreement we will establish a specific negotiating track on alternative arrangements to agree them before the end of december 2020. the instrument also entrenches in legally binding form the commitments made in the exchange of letters between donald tusk and jean—claude juncker and myself, and these include... i will cover this point. these include the meaning of best endeavours, the need for negotiations to be taken forward urgently and the ability to provisionally apply any agreement, which reduces the risk of us ever going into the backstop and a confirmation of the assurances made to the people of northern ireland. i will give way. i was puzzled by the claimant by the prime minister that the joint instrument is of comparable legal weight to the withdrawal agreement and i'm sure she will be aware as a matter of
2:28 pm
international law the withdrawal agreement is a treaty but the joint instrument is not a treaty, just a document of reference which can be used to interpret the agreement, so would you care to rephrase her assertion that the joint instrument is of comparable legal weight to the withdrawal agreement because that is wrong as a matter of law? obviously, the withdrawal agreement is an international treaty and this is a joint instrument which it sits alongside which does have the same standing in that in any consideration that is given to any aspect of the widdall agreement, this will be part of that consideration, —— withdrawal agreement. the effect is the same as i indicated. iwill give agreement. the effect is the same as i indicated. i will give way. agreement. the effect is the same as i indicated. iwill give way. it needs to be said that most of us when we are a welcome sight to our beds but it is noticed here that the prime minister simply battles on and it is appreciated —— when we are u nwell we it is appreciated —— when we are unwell we retired to our beds. having said that, it is too little,
2:29 pm
too late, the prime minister has talked about compromise, which she agreed that two years ago i and others who sit behind her told her that there was a majority, a compromise across the house, for the single market and the customs union that would have delivered on the referendum and secured the problem with the border and on the right thing for business but she rejected all of that and the difficulty has been her inability to move away from her red lines. i say to the right honourable lady, the point is we have got to look at what the british people voted for when they voted in the referendum, we also have to look at the manifesto that at the time of the last general election we both stood on which was very clear in relation to those matters in the customs union, and the single market. what we have put forward our proposals which enjoy benefits, some
2:30 pm
of the benefits of the customs union like no terrace, but we do this in a way that delivers an independent trade policy and that is what people wa nt to trade policy and that is what people want to see and that is what we will be delivering. i would just make progress before i take any more interventions. i have been quite generous already. i want to say a word about gibraltar. this document confirms the understanding reached between the uk and the eu on the interpretation of article 184 of the withdrawal agreement regarding territorial scope of the future relationship. we will always stand behind british sovereignty for gibraltar and the uk government negotiates for the whole uk family including gibraltar. i will give way in a few moments, just make a little more progress.
2:31 pm
the statement in relation to the political declaration sets out a number of commitments to enhance and speed up the process of negotiating and bring into force of each relationship. there is a new commitment for negotiating track on alternative arrangements will consider not only existing facilitation is an technologies but also those emerging. i will give way to the honourable lady. also those emerging. i will give way to the honourable ladylj also those emerging. i will give way to the honourable lady. i think the prime minister for giving way and she did say she thought there had beena she did say she thought there had been a change in attitude about looking at different ways of dealing with the northern ireland and irish border. which she agreed with me if the irish taoiseach did what the previous irish taoiseach did which was allow the civil servants to meet with our civil servants, if there was good will and intention, the taoiseach would now say their civil servants should start the process now and not wait until we have gone much further along the line? can i simply say to the right honourable
2:32 pm
lady that we are happy at any stage to sit down with the irish government and to talk to them about the arrangements that could be in place in relation to the northern ireland border with ireland. on gibraltar, can she confirm that well on gibraltar, can she confirm that we ll over on gibraltar, can she confirm that well over 90% of the people of gibraltar voted to remain in the european union and that if her deal goes down tonight, it will be essential that gibraltar continues to have a relationship as close as possible with the european union single market? he is right about his facts in terms of the vote and of course significantly, the last time the people of gibraltar were asked whether they wanted to continue their relationship with the united kingdom, they were very clear overwhelmingly that that was what they wanted. that is why we are clear we negotiate on behalf of the whole uk family. the deal on the table tonight that people will vote
2:33 pm
for delivers the close relationship for delivers the close relationship for the future that the honourable gentleman has been talking about. it's delivers on the result of the referendum, but it also recognises the importance of a close relationship for us for the future with the european union. i am now going to make some further progress. third, alongside the joint instrument on the withdrawal agreement, the united kingdom government will make a unilateral declaration relating to the temporary nature of the backstop, such declarations are commonly used by states alongside the ratification of treaties. the declaration clarifies what the uk could do if it was not possible to conclude an agreement which superseded the protocol because the eu had acted contrary to its obligations. in these circumstances, the uk plus my understanding is nothing in the withdrawal agreement which prevent us from instigating measures that could ultimately lead to the ges application of our obligations under the protocol. where we to take such measures, the uk would remain in full compliance with its obligations
2:34 pm
under the belfast good friday agreement and to avoid hard border on the island of ireland. i will give way. lam very give way. i am very grateful to the payments to for giving way and i really do wa nt to for giving way and i really do want to know why the prime minister has consistently tried to get a deal that satisfied hardliners on her own side, rather than reaching out across the chamber to get an agreement that would be a softer brexit, but it would protect the good friday agreement in northern ireland more than her current deal does. festival, if she thought i was placating everybody on my side of the house, i don't think the vote would have been rejected in the first place —— first of all. so i think she is rather wrong on that. secondly, i did reach out to the frontbench of the opposition of her party, i had a meeting with the leader of the opposition, there was
2:35 pm
a meeting between chancellor and the shadow secretary state, we offered other meetings and the voice came back, none. iwill other meetings and the voice came back, none. i will make further progress. there were considerable improvements on the deal the house considered eight weeks ago, in particular three key issues raised by the member faulting them and sail west. on the question of giving legal status to the assurances on the backstop, the joint legal status to the assurances on the backstop, thejoint instrument isa the backstop, thejoint instrument is a legally binding text at the same level as the withdrawal agreement, namely a treaty level instrument. on alternative arrangements, we have an agreement they will replace the backstop and this commitment is in the legal instrument, not just the this commitment is in the legal instrument, notjust the political declaration. on the question of an end date, the core concern of collea g u es end date, the core concern of colleagues was that we should not be trapped indefinitely in the backstop. the attorney general has today changed his legal analysis to say this risk has been reduced and if the eu were to act in bad faith, short of their best endeavours, the backstop could be suspended or even
2:36 pm
terminated. and that this is a materially new legal commitment. terminated. and that this is a materially new legal commitmentm will give way. i'm grateful to her for giving way. the prime minister's strategy this week is depending on expecting that mps will change their minds in a matter of weeks between votes, at the same —— at the same time she won't allow for the fact the public might have changed their minds in the space of many years, three years now. so will she accept that the best and she has of getting her deal through parliament would be to make it subject to a confirmatory vote of the public as a result? cani the public as a result? can i say to the honourable lady as i have said on many occasions before and indicated early in my speech, i profoundly believe that when the parliament of this country says to the british people that the choice as to whether tojoin, the british people that the choice as to whether to join, to remain the british people that the choice as to whether tojoin, to remain or to leave the european union is
2:37 pm
theirs, and when the government... i say to the honourable lady she says, well, they have changed their minds. there is not actually evidence that the british people have changed their minds. there isn't evidence. and where would it end? so what you have another referendum and there is a different result, and then everybody says, well, let's have a third? or that is another referendum and there is the same result and the honourable lady would probably still stand up and say she wanted a third referendum to try to overturn the decision. i will give way. lam decision. i will give way. i am grateful to the prime minister for giving way, the simple fact is that people in my constituency and others who voted leave did so with the promise and expectation of something better. does she not agree that what we are facing this evening isa that what we are facing this evening is a choice of voting for a deal that she knows and i know and this
2:38 pm
house knows and i suspect the majority of the people in the country know that whether it is on economic cooperation on security cooperation, leaves our country demonstrably worse off, why on earth is she asking us to countenance that? he said that he talked about those in his constituency who voted leave, what is absolutely clear from the analysis the government published is if we are going to honour the result of the referendum, andi honour the result of the referendum, and i believe we should and i am sure his leave voters want us to do that, the best deal to deliver for the british people in honouring that referendum is the deal that the government put forward back in the summer. and this deal that is here tonight is the deal that actually gets us on to the point of negotiating that future relationship in the interests of constituents of everybody sitting across this house. iam going everybody sitting across this house. i am going to make some progress. i
2:39 pm
know that some honourable and right honourable members will still have concerns about the backstop, but real progress has been made and all of us can put out of our minds the idea that going round this again will get us any further forward. responsible politics is about pragmatism. about balancing risk and reward. so members across the house should ask themselves whether they wa nt to should ask themselves whether they want to make the perfect the enemy of the good. mr speaker, given northern ireland's unique position and the fact that it will be the only part two i'm sorry, i did say i would give way. most of us in this place commend her and her team for theirstamina in these place commend her and her team for their stamina in these negotiations. we a cce pt their stamina in these negotiations. we accept there is a political dimension, but could she just clarify one point for those of us who are concerned about the indefinite nature of the backstop? that is this, in future, this country could unilaterally decide to walk away from the agreement if
2:40 pm
there was fundamentally a change in circumstances and we could do that isa circumstances and we could do that is a united kingdom, including northern ireland, even if that meant northern ireland, even if that meant northern ireland, even if that meant northern ireland leaving the customs union within the eu? i think this was a point the attorney general responded to. it would be in his statement earlier, it is open to any southern government to choose to take a decision to to supply something it has entered into. of course it would have consequences and i think i am right in saying my leonard friend indicated that was not a route he could recommend ministers to take. but of course my honourable friend is right that is always open to a sovereign government to act in that way. i will give way. lam very i will give way. i am very grateful for the prime minister giving way. could the prime
2:41 pm
minister giving way. could the prime minister confirm the element of risk of going into the backstop when this country was told that this would be the easiest trade deal in history? well, can i say to my honourable friend that of course, any negotiation between different parties of this sort does take time. trade deals do take time. often a shorter time than many people think, and we have yet to negotiate a trade dealfor the future, which and we have yet to negotiate a trade deal for the future, which we will be doing when we get this withdrawal agreement deal through. i want to make a very specific point about northern ireland, given its unique position and the fact it would be the only part of the uk to share a border with the eu, and i want to set out further commitments today and protections for northern ireland and protections for northern ireland and its integral place in the united kingdom. first, the government will legislate to give a restored northern ireland assembly vote on a cross community basis on whether the backstop should be brought into force if there are delays in the
2:42 pm
trade talks. stormont does not support this, ministers will be bound to look for an approach to achieve cross community support, it could for example be an implementation —— an extension of the implementation period. it has previously been the understanding the choice would be between backstop and the implementation period, the introduction of alternative arrangements brings another element into that, but there is that key commitments in relation to the northern ireland assembly. stormont does not support this, and if stormont were to support an implementation period as the alternative, ministers would be bound to look for an extension of the implementation period, assuming that had achieved cross community support. we will maintain the same regulatory standards across the uk for as long as the backstop is in force, this is a commitment we have already made but i can now tell the house we will legislate to make this legally binding. thirdly, the government will legislate to prohibit an expansion of north and
2:43 pm
south cooperation through the withdrawal agreement, that will remaina withdrawal agreement, that will remain a matterfor the northern alaska —— for the northern ireland executive assembly in line with the belfast agreement. i would just make this further point. at every stage of these negotiations, my determination has been to deliver a deal that works for every part of the united kingdom and that includes northern ireland. i will give way to the honourable lady. the prime minister has talked a lot about concerns around the backstop, but for many honourable members, the biggest concern is how withdrawal agreement provides no legal certainty about any of the fundamental questions about our future relationship with the eu. as a result, we will be back here time and time again. and far from providing certainty for the future, her blindfold brexit is the most uncertain future for our country of all!
2:44 pm
very simple and basic point the honourable lady seems to have forgotten, it is not possible for the european union to negotiate the legal text of that future trade relationship with the united kingdom while we are a member of the european union. we cannot do that until we have left the european union. so if the honourable lady wa nts union. so if the honourable lady wants us to get onto negotiating the future relationship, vote for the deal tonight. let's get onto that next stage. important though the tarmac is, it was not the only concern honourable members had, and that was in regard to the political declaration because it provides, as the honourable lady has hinted at, it provides democrat members asked how they could be confident about the sort of future relationship the government would negotiate. i'm sure we can learn lessons from how we approach this first phase of the negotiations as we move onto the second. for my part, i have no doubt
2:45 pm
the government does need to build a strong consensus in the house before we go on to negotiate the future relationship. not least to ensure the process of ratification is to me that than that of the withdrawal agreement. that is why we have committed to give a much stronger and clearer role for this house and for the other place during the next phase. notjust a consensus in parliament either. businesses, trade unions and civil society must all play a much bigger part, contributing their expertise in a collective national effort to secure the very best future relationship with the eu. that new approach... if you would just wait. that you approach will start with the withdrawal agreement bill if the deal passes tonight, notice a presentation will be given tomorrow and the bill will be introduced on thursday. as we discuss that bill, we can debate how exactly we will ensure that this parliament has the full say it deserves. i will give way. cani way. can i thank the prime minister for
2:46 pm
giving way? given that the clock is ticking, there are millions of people working in businesses up and down this country that once the most certain outcome and voting for this deal today is the best way of delivering it. voting the deal down will lead to more uncertainty. none of us know... i, for one, will be supporting the prime minister. cani supporting the prime minister. can i thank my honourable friend, he has made a very important point. rejecting this deal tonight, the only certain thing about rejecting this deal tonight is that it increases uncertainty. businesses and individuals want certainty. i will give way. ido will give way. i do feel for my right honourable friend, her throat condition, i do feel for my right honourable friend, herthroat condition, i really do. having said that, she has referred to the fact that the backstop is very important, we all
2:47 pm
know that and rightly so. the question, however, is also onto the withdrawal agreement and the implementation bill which is to come, we have not seen a draft of it andl come, we have not seen a draft of it and i hope we can get it very soon, but the second thing is that in there, it is quite clear that we will not be discharging what she said herself at lancaster house, we would not truly leave the european union unless we regain control of our own laws. under article four, union unless we regain control of our own laws. underarticle four, it is clear that is not the case, what is clear that is not the case, what is the answer of my honourable friend to that point? festival, i am pleased to hear he is keen to see the withdrawal agreement bill, that, of course, it will be presented this week if my honourable friend and others vote for this deal tonight —— first of all. but i also say to my right honourable friend, yes, there are provisions in
2:48 pm
relation to the role of the european court ofjustice during the period for bringing our way out of the european union. but it is clear, and that covers the implementation period, what is absolutely clear is once we are beyond that point, there is nojurisdiction of once we are beyond that point, there is no jurisdiction of the once we are beyond that point, there is nojurisdiction of the european court ofjustice other is nojurisdiction of the european court of justice other than is nojurisdiction of the european court ofjustice other than for a limited period of years in relation to the citizens right, there is no jurisdiction for the european court ofjustice in this area. she just said that if she manages to get her withdrawal agreement approved by this house, she doesn't want the next stage of serious negotiations about a long—term future to proceed in the same way and she is giving a greater role to parliament. i strongly endorse that, we can't have another arrangement where she just reaches a perfectly satisfactory agreement on the three points she did and then we defend —— we
2:49 pm
descended to a parliamentary farce as people argue about what changes they would like. isn't the best way, if she gets her withdrawal agreement through, to have some indicative votes in the house of commons before the serious negotiation starts, so the serious negotiation starts, so the government can go into those negotiations knowing what the broad mass of parliament is likely to support and to back up if she achieve it? actually, i think there area number of achieve it? actually, i think there are a number of ways in which you can ascertain the views of the house, prior to entering into the next stage of negotiations. obviously, we have been looking at the details of that and we will want to be consulting and talking across the house in relation to that matter. of course, the first step, as my right honourable friend rightly indicated, in order to get onto that stage, is to pass the deal tonight. no, i really am going to make a little more progress. i have been extremely generous. with
2:50 pm
interventions. not everybody in this house is as generous as i am. mr speaker, i set out to the house two weeks ago the specifics of what would happen if the deal is rejected tonight, we would first return tomorrow to consider whether the house supports leaving the eu on march the 29th without a withdrawal agreement and a framework for a future relationship. if the house votes against no—deal, it will vote on whether to get an extension of article 50. i sincerely hope that the house will not put itself in this invidious position. we can avoid it by supporting what i profoundly believe is a good deal and a substantially better deal than we had eight weeks ago. but if it comes to it, the choices would be bleak. in the long term, we could ultimately make a success of no—deal, but there would be a significant economic shock in the short term and be in no doubt of the impact that would have on businesses
2:51 pm
and families. we would lose the security cooperation that helps keep us safe from crime, terrorism and other threats and we would risk weakening support for our union. i know the right honourable member tabled an amendment looking for a second scottish independence referendum. polling shows support for both scottish independence and a united ireland would be higher if we leave without a deal. while a no—deal in the absence of institutions in northern ireland which create a substantial problem of governance there. should the house reject leaving on march the 29th without a deal, and then support the government's looking for an extension to article 50, our problems would not be solved. an extension without a plan would prolong the uncertainty, threatening jobs and investment. yet as it did so, it would not change the debate or the questions that need to be settled. it would merely pass
2:52 pm
control to the european union. they we re control to the european union. they were to decide how long an extension to offer, meaning we may not get what we ask for, they could even impose conditions on an extension. that could mean moving to a brexit that does not meet the expectations of those who voted to leave. or even moving to a second referendum come up moving to a second referendum come up with all the that that would do to trust in our democracy. equally, there is a risk that having voted foran there is a risk that having voted for an extension, this house would still not be able to agree a way forward and we would end up moving without a deal. just one moment, i will give way. if any of these things were to happen, it would be no good blaming the european union. responsibility would lie with this house. ourfailure to responsibility would lie with this house. our failure to come together in the national interest to deliver on the vote of the british people. i will give way to the honourable
2:53 pm
gentleman. lam gentleman. i am extremely grateful for her giving way. the first of her brexit second —— brexit secretaries is sitting in his place. time after time after time, he stood at that dispatch box and he promised this house that we would get the exact same benefits after we leave than we currently enjoy with the eu. does she not accept that raising expectations that high set a level that she has absolutely failed to meet? that has damaged trust in her brexit, that has caused the situation we are in now and we have to find another way forward. we have set out the proposals the government itself put forward, a way of ensuring we maintain a very close economic partnership with the european union in the future and this close a security partnership with the european union, and we are also able to have the benefit of
2:54 pm
having the benefit of acting as a european —— an independent country and having trade deals with other countries around the world. i said i would give way. i think the prime minister. i welcome would give way. i think the prime minister. iwelcome her commitment to potentially legislate for the political declaration, albeit i believe doing so in the withdrawal bill only once we have voted to endorse the political declaration may be slightly convoluted. but i suggest a third option to consider? if the deal is not pass this evening, the prime minister could independently legislate for political declaration now, setting out in law what the end point would be and what role parliament will have in statute, before we vote again ona have in statute, before we vote again on a further deal. that would give people like me the confidence to understand that by voting for the withdrawal agreement, there is certainty about where we are going. i thank the honourable gentleman for his proposal in relation to that
2:55 pm
matter. i think one of the issues is that the political declaration remains to be negotiated and there is not the certainty he was searching for in the proposal he put forward. but i give him the credit forward. but i give him the credit for inventiveness and thinking carefully about these issues. i will give way one final time to the right honourable gentleman. i thank the prime minister, she has been very generous. will she agree with me, however, that whatever happens today, whether her withdrawal agreement is passed or not, we are going to have to have an extension to article 50 because there is not time to complete the business we will need to complete before the 29th? let's get the deal agreed tonight and the usual channels will work to see what is necessary in relation to getting legislation through this house. mr speaker, it was not this house: no,
2:56 pm
i have said. the honourable gentleman is a gp chappie chuckling from a central position but it has been made very clear the prime minister is not giving way. prime minister. thank you, mr speaker. iwill take giving way. prime minister. thank you, mr speaker. i will take the honourable gentleman. i thank the prime minister for being so generous with her time. when it comes to the backstop and the changes, is it not the case the new arrangements come nowhere close to the brady amendment, the malthouse compromise has been consigned to history and it is a phrase we no longer here? the legalese remain the same in terms of being stuck in the backstop, and no technology exists in the —— at the moment for the
2:57 pm
northern ireland border,. can keep the implementation period for a long time until that technology exists. —— and stormont can keep. i think i lost cou nt, —— and stormont can keep. i think i lost count, but i think it is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong! on the point that the prime minister was making about any conditions eu might attach to a request for extension of the article 50 process, which the prime minister agree whether it is to get an extension to the process or even in a no—deal scenario, there is a set of obligations contained within the withdrawal agreement that the eu will want to talk about in either of those circumstances and as much as we might want to wish them away, voting down the deal tonight does not those obligations disappear? he is absolutely right. voting against the deal tonight does not mean those obligations disappear. which is why i believe it is very important, another reason, for
2:58 pm
members of this house to go through the lobby in favour of this motion tonight. mr speaker, it was not this house that decided it was time for united kingdom to leave the european union. it was the british people. it falls to us here to implement the decision. their desire for change. their demand for a better, more open, more successfulfuture their demand for a better, more open, more successful future for our country. and today is the day that we can begin to build that future. this is the moment and this is the time. time for us to come together, to back this motion and get the deal done. because only then can we get on with what we came here to do. what we were sent here to do. each and every one of us came into politics because we have sincerely held views about how to build a better britain. some have spent
2:59 pm
their political careers campaigning against the european union and in favour of restoring sovereignty to this parliament. for us, membership of the eu is one of foundations, of their vision of the uk's place in their vision of the uk's place in the world. but we also came here to serve. we cannot serve our country by overturning a democratic decision of the british people. we cannot serve by prolonging a debate the british people now wish to see settled. and we cannot serve by refusing to compromise, reinforcing instead of hearing the painful divisions we see within our society and across our country. the british people have been clear, they want us to implement the decision they made nearing three years ago. so let i show what this house can achieve when we come together. let's demonstrate what politics is for. let's prove beyond all doubt that we
3:00 pm
believe democracy comes before party faction or personal ambition. the time, the time has come to deliver... hello, you're watching afternoon live — we are staying with theresa may. she is battling a sore throat after late—night talks with the eu if she is urging mps to back her improved deal or risk no brexit at all. as on the order paper, mrjeremy corbyn. after three months of running down the clock, the prime minister has despite very extensive delays achieved not a single change to the withdrawal agreement. not one single word has changed. in terms of the substance, literally nothing has
3:01 pm
changed. on the 29th of january the prime minister backed the amendment in the name of the memberfor altrincham and sale west, calling for the backstop to be replaced by alternative arrangements, and on the 12th of february the prime minister said the government was seeking three potential changes to the backstop, a legally binding time—limit, a legally binding unilateral exit clause or the ideas put forward by the alternative arrangements working group. there is no unilateral exit mechanism, there is no time limit and there are no alternative arrangements. let's be clear, the withdrawal agreement is unchanged, the political declaration is unchanged, the joint statement is a legal interpretation of what is in the withdrawal agreement. unilateral statement is the uk government trying to fall its own backbenchers
3:02 pm
because the eu has not even signed to it. —— fool. because the eu has not even signed to it. -- fool. does he not recognise that there are millions of citizens out there who are looking to his party, cross—party, to deliver the certainty they are crying out for, can't he compromise, like many colleagues have done to deliver the result of the referendum? the labour party has put forward very clear proposals which i will come to later in my speech but for the avoidance of doubt they are about a customs union and access to the market and protection of rights. we have put those forward and we continue to put those forward. what the british people are not looking forward to is the chaos of either leaving with no agreement or the problem that this agreement has and
3:03 pm
will therefore be strongly opposed by members of the house tonight. he has just by members of the house tonight. he hasjust said by members of the house tonight. he has just said that the labour party had put forward a set of proposals in alternative to the deal negotiated, but when the deal the government negotiated was rejected overwhelmingly by this house, the right honourable gentleman said we should listen, we have listened. the other week his proposals were rejected overwhelmingly by this house, why is he not listening?” have spent a great deal of time listening to people, people working on the shop floor in factories, people in small businesses, people that are worried about the future of theirfamilies, they that are worried about the future of their families, they want some degree of certainty. her deal does not offer that degree of certainty at all and she very well knows it.
3:04 pm
our proposals are a basis for agreement, a basis for word —— a basis for negotiation. the right honourable gentleman voted in the eu referendum against his party whip and he voted for article 50, why is he now so intent on frustrating brexit and the will of the people? i'm not quite sure what the intervention adds to the debate there. there was a referendum in 1975 and i voted in that referendum and there was a referendum in 2016, yes, i voted, and there was a referendum in 2016, yes, ivoted, and i campaigned to remain and reform the eu. the government is in real problems because they are trying to fool the people into believing that the deal that she has offered is the only one that she has offered is the only one thatis that she has offered is the only one that is available, it is not, and they know that. look closely at the
3:05 pm
government's own motion, it is a case study in weasel words and obfuscation, the legally binding joint instrument reduces the risk the uk could be deliberately held in the uk could be deliberately held in the northern ireland backstop indefinitely, it says. there are keywords there, firstly, it only reduces the risk and not eliminates, so it is completely failing to achieve its own goal. i have an ally in believing this to be the case, the attorney general, who told the press at the weekend and i quote, i will not change my opinion unless we have a text which shows the risk has been eliminated, and indeed his legal opinion today states and i quote, the legal risks remain unchanged. he is making a very
3:06 pm
powerful point about the absurdity of this idea that there could be a unilateral exit from the backstop which would destroy the very function of the backstop. the prime minister has committed a major strategic blunder for our country rather than reaching out for consensus. indeed, the erg seem slightly missing today but i'm ove rco m e by slightly missing today but i'm overcome by the excitement of all the members sitting behind the prime minister in this debate. secondly, mr speaker. the right honourable gentleman is not currently giving way. the gentleman has got to learn the ways of parliament. jeremy corbyn. thank you, mr speaker. there is the use of the word deliberately, the risk that we are held in the backstop indefinitely has not been reduced, only the risk that we could be deliberately held in the backstop
3:07 pm
indefinitely, and the prime minister has said herself on many occasions that the backstop is painfulfor both the uk and the eu and it is something that neither side wished to see applied. there has been no indication from the prime minister that there ever was a risk of being deliberately held in the backstop in the first place. i will make some progress. yet in her statement last night the prime minister said the joint instrument guarantees that the eu cannot act with the intent of applying the backstop indefinitely, the eu has never ever expressed this intent and the prime minister has never accuse them of this intention. the prime minister has constructed one enormous great big gigantic attractive paper tiger and then slain it. but the substance already existed through article 178 section five of the withdrawal agreement,
3:08 pm
agreed in november, truly nothing has changed. the prime minister also claims that the joint instrument entrenches the january exchange of letters in legally binding form. on the 14th of january from this dispatch box the prime minister told the house those letters have legal standing and would have legal force in international law. we are back again into smoke and mirrors. the illusion will change when the reality is that nothing has changed, it is all spin and no substance from the prime minister. i'm making some progress, if i may. i'm the prime minister. i'm making some progress, ifi may. i'm gratefulto the leader of the opposition forgiving way and he sums up the miasma of chaos that is eating away at this place but doesn't he agree with me that given the chaos that is about to hit the people of scotland who voted overwhelmingly to stay in the eu, should the rake west a
3:09 pm
section 30 order to hold a referendum on scotland's's independence it would be undemocratic in the extreme for the government to refuse it? —— should he not agree. there is no relevance on that intervention to this debate having today, this is about the government leaving the european union. —— to this debate we are having today. the backstop would injure indefinitely until a superseding agreement takes place, that was the case injanuary superseding agreement takes place, that was the case in january and that was the case in january and thatis that was the case in january and that is the case today, and i reiterate the view that of the attorney general, despite the theatre of the prime minister's late—night declaration in strasbourg, nothing has changed. late—night declaration in strasbourg, nothing has changedm it not the case that the critical issue here is that that party cannot countenance a trending arrangement
3:10 pm
which puts both northern ireland and ireland and the eu in the same trading arrangements and so whether it is today or next week or the end of this month or at any time, the party opposite cannot bring forward a brexit that people can agree on. it is very clear that this government delayed the vote from december the 11th and then was found in contempt of parliament by refusing to release legal information and then broke the record for losing a vote in parliament and now has come back for the scene of previous disasters with exactly the same proposal and i earnestly hope the house tonight rejects the agreement of the prime minister has brought to us. the prime minister has also attempted to convince labour members of this house about an equally empty promise on workers' rights. she said last week in her speech in grimsby that being aligned with the eu on
3:11 pm
workers' rights would mean that if they lowered their standards we would have to lower hours. it simply is not true. european union standards are a floor, not a ceiling, and if the eu chose and i hope they never would, but if they chose to reduce those minimum standards, it would not compel the uk to lower its standards. it is important to clarify that point because i'm sure the prime minister would have no intention of misleading anyone when she said it. however, being aligned to those standards means that if the minimum improved the uk would be compelled to improve and indeed i would want us to go much further than the eu many workers' rights. he and i share concerns about how we protect workers' rights as we move forward
3:12 pm
and leave the eu which i know he respects because he respects the outcome of the referendum in 2017. the general election of 2017, but also the referendum in 2016. two public votes that came to the same outcome. does he not agree with me that when we voted on the deal in january what we did not have is an assurance that in moving forward in this house we would have the opportunity in the future by law to make sure that if the european union raised standards in terms of health and safety and employment rights we would have on a bendable motion brought to the house in which we could vote to support the increase and go further than the eu? —— we would have an amendable motion. having a vote in parliament on a potential improvement of rights is obviously a chance we would have to improve those rights but it is not
3:13 pm
legally binding. it is not legally binding to defend those rights and to make sure there is a dynamic alignment. not only on rights at work but also very importantly on environmental protections and consumer standards, and we are very clear there must be a dynamic alignment and the eu basis is a floor from which alignment and the eu basis is a floorfrom which i alignment and the eu basis is a floor from which i would want us personally to go much higher. i won't give way at the moment, thank you. a labour government would go much further on all those. this was a bad deal in december when labour decided to vote against it, it was a bad deal in january decided to vote against it, it was a bad deal injanuary when it was rejected by the largest margin in parliamentary history and it is the same bad deal now. we will be voting against a steel tonight for the reason that we set out when replying to the debate in december —— against the steel tonight. because this deal
3:14 pm
will damage the economy and undermine our industries and irreparably harm our manufacturing sector and risk the national health service and damage our public services and harm living standards. because, mr speaker, it opens up the possibility of a race to the bottom. a bonfire of rights and protections, provides no certainty on trade and customs arrangements in the future, that will risk living standards. we get on personally and we have a shropshire bond as he knows, but can i say to him i think he is making a very unconvincing case may be because for most of his political life he was a brexiteer and he is to a brexiteer but he has mostly a remain party behind him, is this not the worst example of pure politics,
3:15 pm
the worst example of pure politics, the pursuit of power and putting his parties interests and possibly his self interest ahead of the national interest? oh dear, this is so disappointing to the people of shropshire. i can't believe hejust said that. what we have put forward in the referendum campaign was a principle of remaining in the eu and reform, and the result did not go that way, it went the other way. we have spoken up for the people of this country who are frightened of theirjob losses, this country who are frightened of their job losses, frightened this country who are frightened of theirjob losses, frightened of the future of their industries and their communities, that is why we have put forward what i believe to be a credible and sensible and serious series of alternatives, and so, mr speaker, for the reasons we set out
3:16 pm
in our letter to the prime minister of the 6th of february we believe that there should be a permanent and comprehensive uk eu customs union and they should be close alignment with the single market and there should be dynamic alignment on rights and protections, clear commitments on participation in eu agencies, and funding programmes and finally unambiguous agreements on the details of future security arrangements. it is because we want arrangements. it is because we want a brexit that protects jobs and the economy and our industries and those industries are suffering. no doubt about it. growth is slowing, manufacturing is mired in recession, investment drying up, jobs are going, thousands of workers are fearing for their future. the stress facing workers, european union nationals in the uk and indeed british nationals in europe is real,
3:17 pm
andi british nationals in europe is real, and i met a british nationals in europe is real, and i meta group in spain a british nationals in europe is real, and i met a group in spain a couple of weeks ago who told me of their concerns and they were pleased that we supported what is known as the costa moment. we are —— amendment. each member has to decide if they believe this deal is good for their constituents and if this deal narrowly escapes through tonight, although i don't think it will, but if it did we believe the option should be to go back to the people for a confirmatory vote on it if thatis for a confirmatory vote on it if that is the case but we do not believe it should go through. while there have been no calculation is of there have been no calculation is of the economic impact of the actual deal in front of us, something that should shame this government, there is an estimate of the chequers deal which included a promise of frictionless trade which the prime minister failed frictionless trade which the prime ministerfailed to frictionless trade which the prime minister failed to deliver. but still, even with a more favourable outcome, the government estimates that its own deal will make our
3:18 pm
economy and the people of this country worse off. the documents in front offer no clarity. would my honourable friend agree that people who voted leave in swansea and elsewhere voted for more money and more jobs and more trade and more control and they are getting none of them and they won't even getting any guarantees on environmental protections, so how can we vote for this shoddy deal? mr speaker, however people voted in the referendum, they want certainty of their future and they want certainty of theirjobs and surrounding their trade. i give way to the father of the house. i rather agree with him on the broad principles he sets out for our final aspirations and long—term goals. and i voted for him the last time he put the principles
3:19 pm
forward , the last time he put the principles forward, but earlier he was giving his reasons for voting against the withdrawal agreement tonight. actually, none of the things he mentioned had anything to do with the withdrawal agreement. could he explain what his objection is to the deal we have on citizens' rights and what is the objection to the agreement on the money we owe and what on earth is the objection to the irish backstop that leaves him to put the whole thing in peril if he carries out his threat to vote against it tonight? we had a very pleasa nt against it tonight? we had a very pleasant chat during that vote last time, but what i was pointing out was, the prime minister set a series of objectives and she has not met any and she has brought back the same deal and she expects us to vote on this again. i will give way. can he explain why he has refused to
3:20 pm
acce pt he explain why he has refused to accept repeated offers of meetings with the prime minister at such a vital time? with the prime minister at such a vitaltime? mr with the prime minister at such a vital time? mr speaker, with the prime minister at such a vitaltime? mr speaker, i met with the prime minister at such a vital time? mr speaker, i met the prime minister in december to discuss the arrangements by which we would have debates on this process and we agreed that the vote would ta ke and we agreed that the vote would take place on the 11th of december, but it didn't, because the government decided to delay it. delay it and in fact made the situation worse. we had a meeting andi situation worse. we had a meeting and i presented a copy of my letter to the prime minister with our proposals and members of my team have also had meetings with their opposite numbers, so there have been meetings, but the prime minister is stuck in a groove that believes only her deal is the thing that should be voted on, she wasn't listening to what we were saying or what was included in our letter and that is really the problem. the documents offer no clarity in front of us and no certainty, the political
3:21 pm
declaration says this could lead to a spectrum of possible outcomes, 26 pages of waffle in the political declaration are a direct result of two things, the prime minister self and utterly inflexible and contradictory red lines and they are... and their utterfailure to engage properly with members of the house and to listen to unions and business. further to the contribution made by the fires of the house, could i —— the father of the house, could i —— the father of the house, could i —— the father of the house, could i ask the leader of the house, could i ask the leader of the opposition to clarify what he has also said in the joint statement, the important link between the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration which while being of a different nature are part of the same negotiated package, and there are significant objections to the political declaration on this side of the house as well. indeed. the pitta
3:22 pm
the political declaration is not a binding agreement, and i share my concerns about it and the changes that need to be made to it which is another reason why we should be rejecting the prime minister's motion this evening. it is simply not good enough to vote for a blindfold brexit so we will vote against the deal tonight as i urge all members to do. if we only have this vote tonight as we had the same vote on the same deal injanuary because labour members from the beginning demanded that parliament have a meaningful vote. i want to pay tribute to our shadow brexit team, the shadow international trade tea m team, the shadow international trade team and the shadow attorney general and the shadow solicitor general who have done so much to make sure that parliament has proper scrutiny over this process. this bill started with
3:23 pm
henry viii powers which were ridden roughshod over parliament and over our ability to hold the executive to account and there was actions —— it was the actions of our team which force the situation where we have a meaningful vote in parliament otherwise that would not have happened. the right to that scrutiny and to hold the government to account and to make sure the interest of our constituents is absolutely vital, something i have exercised to the full in my time in this house. i believe there is a majority in the house for the sort of sensible credible and negotiable deal that labour has set out and i look forward to parliament taking back control so that we can succeed where this government has so blata ntly where this government has so blatantly failed and those people all around the country who at the moment are very, very concerned for their future and their communities and theirjobs, their future and their communities and their jobs, and their future and their communities and theirjobs, and the case of eu national is their right to remain in
3:24 pm
this country is indeed for british nationals living in europe, parliament owes it to them to get some degree of certainty by rejecting the prime minister's proposal and bringing forward what we believe to be a credible set of alternatives. parliament should do itsjob alternatives. parliament should do its job today and say no to the prime minister. order. sir william cash. i simply referjust now when i was talking to the prime minister to this issue of control over laws, we have been through the backstop in detail today with the attorney general and the legal issues group which i have been convening has come up which i have been convening has come up with some very clear answers to that question, the backstop is not a cce pta ble that question, the backstop is not acceptable in its present form, and we are profoundly determined to vote against this withdrawal agreement
3:25 pm
for those reasons alone. i would simply want to say one simple thing, i think people need to take into account just exactly what uncertainty and what real problems will come for workers as well as for businesses if in the course of the next few years this transitional period goes through, the effect of which will be and i speak as chairman of the european scrutiny committee, where we have 200 plus documents deemed not to be in the national interest and edition to which they will be more which are in the pipeline —— and in addition to which there will be more which are in the pipeline, and there's the issue of the financial transaction tax. i strongly urge members to bear in mind what the prime minister said and she was so right over this issue in lancaster house, and she knows
3:26 pm
well enough how much effort i have put into making sure the withdrawal agreement was drafted along the lines it was but in addition to that that it was enacted and got sent on the 26th of june. that it was enacted and got sent on the 26th ofjune. we were completely out one at that point. after that and running into from chequers into the withdrawal agreement, the first question i put to her was, on the 9th ofjuly, how can you reconcile the chequers proposals with the repeal of the 1972 act under section one which was passed only ten days ago? one which was passed only ten days ? i one which was passed only ten days ago? i remain convinced that that was an accurate assessment of the position and furthermore with regard to the manner in which the legislation comes through our committee, because at the moment under the 1971 white paper, despite the fact that we were told that we would have a veto, it has been whittled away to extension so the
3:27 pm
net result is now everything is more or less done by consensus and qualified majority vote. the worst possible situation we can have is for a period of years possibly we believe in the european scrutiny analysis which was produced a few days ago that it will go up until the next general election which is the next general election which is the 1st of january 2023, the extension of the transitional period which is highly probable under the arrangements of the withdrawal agreement, article 132, that we will end up being at the mercy of our competitors. they have no interest in giving us any benefits which come out of the legislative pipeline when they themselves are making the laws and we are receiving them in the most humiliating fashion in the history of our parliament. never before in our entire history have we ever been legislated for by other member states. and indeed it will be
3:28 pm
worse than that, because it will be done by a number of countries who themselves have no interest other than to put us at the risk of our competitors —— the mercy of our competitors, that is catastrophic and the fundamental reason why i am voting against this withdrawal agreement tonight. i don't think the workers who themselves voted and made their views playing against the courts regulation where we had a similar situation, 47 court employees were against it, every single trade union was against it, but it went through. this will be the pattern, believe me, i have been on the committee for 34 years, we have never turns down any proposal from the eu in the whole of that 34 yea rs from the eu in the whole of that 34 years —— turned down. itjust doesn't happen. we are tying ourselves into the assumption that
3:29 pm
thatis ourselves into the assumption that that is what will happen under article four, and furthermore we will make sure because we are accepting primary legislation in the withdrawal and implementation bill which will come in in a couple of days' time, if the withdrawal agreement tragically goes through, because the primary obligation will because the primary obligation will be done by primary legislation and thatis be done by primary legislation and that is what the withdrawal and implementation bill says and it also will undermine the repeal of the 1972 act and it will enable the courts under article four two disapply acts of parliament and i trust that people understand that where the courts have the right by a cts where the courts have the right by acts of parliament to disapply acts of parliament which are inconsistent it will put even the repeal of the 1972 act in grave jeopardy as our report for the european scrutiny committee shows. that is my concern.
3:30 pm
there are other aspects of this on state aids where for example under the back stopper granger and, we will be put in a position where we will be put in a position where we will not be able to incentivise our industries and enterprise —— the backstop arrangement. it will be a severe denial of the right of this country to determine its own tax policy. let's go over to the lobby inside the houses of parliament. our chief political correspondent is there. everyone is waiting to hear from the dup. yes, and luckily i had someone from the dup with me, but i have been speaking to lots of mps today
3:31 pm
and there are people changing their minds, deciding they will back theresa may after all. several conservative mps, between ten and 20. i have spoken to one who said he was extremely concerned because he felt there were too many mps who we re felt there were too many mps who were intent on not leaving the eu, and he didn't want to wake up in a month and we were still going to be in the single market, customs union and not have left. there are people now who fear the uncertainty, that brexit not happen at all, and that is focusing their minds, but it is nowhere enough in numbers for theresa may to get through tonight. and the dup have decided they not be backing her deal. let's speak to their eu spokesman who is with me now. why have you decided you cannot back the deal? really on the basis of what we have read in the agreement which was brought to us. and also the advice we were given by our own legal advisers, and by the
3:32 pm
very straightforward advice that was given by the attorney general. who could have moderated his criticism of the agreements but made it quite clear that unless there was a fundamental change in circumstances, depending on your definition of that, we would be stuck with the withdrawal agreement on —— unless the eu agreed to release us from it. i think that was the telling point for us, because of course for northern ireland, that means we could be stuck with the eu while the re st of could be stuck with the eu while the rest of the uk leaves. or for the re st of rest of the uk leaves. or for the rest of the uk leaves. or for the rest of the uk, they could be stuck in the single market and customs union which would not have been delivering on the referendum anyway. the attorney general did say that the risk of being trapped in the backstop has been reduced. he also told cabinet there was a notional legal risk on likely to crystallise.
3:33 pm
aren't you being too overcautious about this? aren't you concerned that you are risking uncertainty? —— a legal risk unlikely to crystallise. the attorney general did say the risk and been reduced but also outlined how the race could materialise, if we entered into a year—long negotiation and at the end of that year, there still hadn't beena of that year, there still hadn't been a resolution, we would have to prove the eu had been acting in good faith. he accepted when nigel dodds put it to him that if the eu said we are simply pursuing side of the negotiation, and our objectives in the negotiations, you are pursuing yours, we haven't been able to meet, then we would be stuck with the withdrawal agreement. this best endeavours tests, he admitted, would be an issue which the eu could get around. do you think it is too
3:34 pm
difficult to prove? yes, and indeed his own advice previously was that it was difficult to prove, and he admitted today that it would be difficult to prove. all he said was at least it was, the risk was reduced somewhat because we have now set a timetable of one year, but it doesn't matter if it is a year, six months, six years. at the end of the period you have to show that the eu have not been similarly digging in their heels because they want to keep us within the constraints of the european union. how do you prove that? where one side says we are not digging our heels in for badness, we are taking our heels in because it's in our self—interest. if that is the only grounds on which you can then unilaterally move away from the withdrawal agreement, it's going to be very difficult. that's why he reached the conclusion at the end that there had not been a great deal of change from the original
3:35 pm
agreement. if the deal is defeated tonight, and it looks like it will be, tomorrow there is a vote on taking no deal of the table. the day after that there will be a vote on extending article 50, delaying bags it. that is the most likely scenario now, isn't it? aren't you concerned that what you want may not happen?” am concerned that there are people in the house of commons who are doing the work of brussels. that wa nt to doing the work of brussels. that want to stay in the eu? they are the agents of brussels because they want us to stay in the eu as well. there are those who, using removal of the new deal, if you remove that. to be 30 the prime minister, she had an uphill task because she was already had to concede. —— to be fair to the prime minister. what leveraged she had when she went to speak to the eu in the last week? if that is formally voted through the house of
3:36 pm
commons, that we consider hand even further. how does this process and that with what you want? whilst they may take no deal off the table, whilst they may extend article 50, that can be done for a very short period. we are fortunate that the european elections are intervening during any period when we were ticked —— we would be extending article 50. at the end ofjune, the eu have to make a decision. do they allow britain to stand, to stay in the eu, totally contrary to all the treaties, with no say in the commission, and any deal they did on that basis would be subject to legal challenge. then you would leave with no deal or you think there would be another deal? i think at that stage we either leave with no deal, which parliament would have no control over because they have made —— it
3:37 pm
would be an eu decision, or else that would focus minds so that we would start seriously looking at negotiating. don't forget, alternative has been put forward by our own group. namely that we would be prepared, once we leave, to have a two—year implementation period, during which we would work towards a free trade arrangements. we would be paying into the eu, giving time to either adjust for a deal or adjust for a no deal. there is an alternative there and it may well be that we have to wait until the 30th ofjune for the that we have to wait until the 30th of june for the eu that we have to wait until the 30th ofjune for the eu to focus on that. thank you very much indeed. the feeling amongst many conservative mps, feeling pretty bleak. one minister said the wheels have come off. all sorts of predictions about what might happen over the next few days. a lot of this tied up with theresa may's own leadership. thank
3:38 pm
you very much. back to you later on. theresa may could hardly speak she is losing her voice, had a late night at strasbourg. what is the sense of what she has achieved, because that is crucial to how they vote tonight? absolutely. the weather now is quite systematic of what is going on. it is a bit bleak, not looking great. we hear the labour party aren't ready to support the deal, we have heard that eu people reject it and the er g as well. where does this leave the house of commons and where does this leave the brexit? we are 17 days away. the eu have been pretty clear, said, we have gone as far as we can, there's not much more we can give. if we are going to talk about an extension, we need to know now but at the moment everyone is looking at what will happen tonight. but the eu last night, jean—claude juncker, would have known what the attorney
3:39 pm
general confirmed today, that very little has changed. possibly but then they were quite clear from the start, they said, the deal on the table is the outcome of 18 months of complex, at times quite tedious, negotiations. it was always going to bea negotiations. it was always going to be a quite remarkable what changes they could do in a matter of days. they were always cautious, they said they were able —— open to further talks, they would seek to provide more certainty and reassurance to those mps on the fence, who didn't fully trust the eu. but they said there are limits to what we can deliver on. i think this is proving that those limits are indeed real. just took us through what happens if there is a vote against the government tonight, at the moment we think there will be to further boats this week. yes, that's what the prime minister promised last week. she said there will be a three—point plan, if you reject my deal because you don't think it is good enough,
3:40 pm
the following day we will vote on whether to reject no deal. if you reject that, the day after that we will vote on extending article 50. what we forget is that the eu would have to agree to that extension. we hear that they would agree to it but for how long? we have those big european parliament elections in may. jean—claude juncker said yesterday, if the uk are looking to remain past may, you will have to organise european parliament elections. i'm not sure how that would go down in the house of commons. if there is an extension, and theresa may mentioned this in her speech this afternoon, there is the risk that brexit is lost altogether. of course, the further you extend, the further you leave space for other actors to come into the debate. we know for a fact that some mps oppose brexit altogether, the labour party supports a softer formal brexit. the prime minister is saying particularly to her backbenchers and the er g, if you
3:41 pm
reject my deal, there is a risk that either we will go towards a softer bag or no brexit. what has emerged todayis bag or no brexit. what has emerged today is how crucial the dup support for this has been. at the moment a lot of conservative backbenchers we re lot of conservative backbenchers were looking to the dup to see how they would respond. absolutely, one of the main stumbling blocks was the backstop. if it came into force that the uk would be trapped in this customs union, arrangement with the eu. and that northern ireland would be subjected to more rules and regulations than the rest of the uk. some conservative mps were thinking, if the dup are happy with the prime minister's deal, we are willing to support it as well. if the dup rejected those on the fence will think carefully about how they will cast their vote tonight. watching the debate it struck me how many empty seats there were behind the buy minister on the tory side. this
3:42 pm
is supposed to be the most important vote since suez. yes, but it is not is supposed to be the most important vote since suez. ye we ut it is not is supposed to be the most important vote since suez. ye we knew; not is supposed to be the most important vote were suez. ye we knew; not is supposed to be the most important vote were suez. ye ' some aw; not is supposed to be the most important vote were suez. ye ' some mps ot is supposed to be the most important vote were suez.“ ‘ some mps were talks were ongoing. some mps were sceptical about how much further change realistically the prime minister could bring back. what is clear is that there have been clarifications, further reassurances, but that some of them knew those changes wouldn't be enough. perhaps they feel they aren't, don't need to listen and they will talk amongst themselves on how to move next. always good to talk to you, thank you. let's speak to the prominent exeter, conservative mps jacob rees—mogg. who i'm told was ready to speak. i think he is there. —— prominent brexit supporter. it's good of you tojoin us. as a group, the erg site you will not support the prime
3:43 pm
minister tonight. we haven't yet said that, we will make our decision at five o'clock. the legal team has put out its opinions. is there anything that would alter your mind, having heard that legal opinion? the legal opinion is quite clear, geoffrey cox's legal opinion is similar. the dup have been —— might have said they will vote against. i wouldn't hold your breath for us to come out and say we are backing the deal, but we will discuss it and see what the risks are. none of these decisions are risk—free. what the risks are. none of these decisions are risk-free. one of the risks theresa may mentioned was the possibility that brexit is lost altogether. that's absolutely right, and something we have to consider, whether it is a realistic risk or a phantom. my view is that it is a phantom. my view is that it is a phantom because the moral authority of 17.4 million people voting to leave is very considerable. very few people openly campaigning to overturn the referendum results. i
3:44 pm
don't think it is an immediate risk but it is of course something we must consider. where you disappointed when you heard the attorney general‘s decision this morning? was there a part of you hoping he would say this has legal backing? i would have been delighted. the default position of conservative mps as we want to support the prime minister, and government policy. but geoffrey cox's legal opinion didn't make that any easier. what happens if theresa may loses tonight? that is a very good question. there will be a series of votes in the next few days. it's likely people will vote for motions about no deal and so on. the default in law is that we leave on the 29th of march with or without a deal. it's important to remember that because it was passed by the withdrawal act and effectively by article 50. that is statute law and
3:45 pm
overrides any mere emotion of the house of commons. but you know that if there is a vote against a no deal tomorrow, and then the following day there is a vote on extending the process , there is a vote on extending the process, that is when there is a risk to the whole brexit procedure. it would still require the prime minister, as the leader of the government, to put that into effect. the prime minister has so far made it clear that she expects us to leave on the 29th of march. it would require quite a big u—turn from the government. what if she loses tonight, where does that leave theresa may in terms of authority? she lost by 230 votes earlier in the year and won she lost by 230 votes earlier in the yearand wona she lost by 230 votes earlier in the year and won a vote of confidence the following day. i think she still commands the confidence of the house. will she survive until the end of the week if she wins —— like if she loses tonight? , yes, i think thatis if she loses tonight? , yes, i think that is a relatively easy forecast.
3:46 pm
are there any of your colleagues to you know might vote for the government tonight? some supporters have indicated they will be supporting the by minister tonight and some have gone public on that, yes. how many? i don't know. are you disappointed that anyone would consider that? not at all because these decisions aren't easy and people have to weigh up the question you asked earlier about risking brexit altogether, and some people will come to one conclusion and others to another. people can in good faith come to different conclusions and that is fair and pa rt conclusions and that is fair and part of democracy. we are hearing a number of switches in the conservative party, and tonight it becomes about raw politics. i suppose you will be asking who you are putting first, the country, the party, ourselves? it must be the country. i think the best interests of the country are served by having a conservative government. the alternative would be disastrous.“
3:47 pm
you are voting against the prime minister, don't you bring the prospect of a general election closer? not necessarily, the fixed—term parliaments act sets out when a general election will take place. that isn't affected by the proceedings this week. are you fed up proceedings this week. are you fed up batshuayi where you are this afternoon? no, i am endlessly patient. —— are you fed up that you have to be where you are this afternoon. i wonder, have to be where you are this afternoon. iwonder, looking at today, so many empty seats behind the prime minister. on what is one of the most important days perhaps in our recent history. why is that? i think because we have had so many days that had been billed as being the most important day in recent history, and i think because this has been so bounced that there is
3:48 pm
the degree of scepticism about the theatricality. i think a lot of people would have been in their offices with cold towels wrapped around their heads looking at the legal opinion and working through the texts, rather than being in the chamber. as it happens i was in the chamber. as it happens i was in the chamber because i had already looked at the texts. your prediction is the prime minister loses tonight and then tomorrow, on that other issue, which is whether we leave without a deal, you know how you will vote then? yes, i will vote against the proposition that will likely be put forward tomorrow. therein mines, parliament has voted into law that we leave on the 29th of march with or without a deal. —— bear in mind. notjust once or without a deal. —— bear in mind. not just once but or without a deal. —— bear in mind. notjust once but twice, through the article 50 act and then it confirmed it. parliament has set by law that we leave then so emotion tomorrow is
3:49 pm
a much lower standing than the law. —— a motion. a much lower standing than the law. -- a motion. surely it will have equal power if the to do against? know, a motion of the house of commons is not law. if it was, the house of commons could pass motions any day of the week that turned the law on its head. the law has to go through a very specific and complex process. before it is the authority of rate of the land. a motion of the house of commons is an expression of opinion, of an entirely different stature. what you are saying then is that if there is a vote tomorrow and the vote says we don't want to leave without a deal, you say that still doesn't necessarily hold ? without a deal, you say that still doesn't necessarily hold? it doesn't overturn the law which says we leave on the 29th of march. changing that would require an act of parliament and that requires the usual proceedings in both houses of
3:50 pm
parliament, plus the technicality of the royal assent. passing a law is a much more complicated business than a one day motion in the house of commons. what about the vote the following day on extending article 50? ditto, really, though that is a potentially prerogative power, that the government could ask for an extension, the eu could give it, and then the government could bring forward a statutory instrument to delay the dates, but is primarily executive action rather than parliamentary. you are lurching to the 29th of the basis that you don't think anything can stop it?” wouldn't say lurching, i would say law has been passed in a proper way. proper and constitutional. and that can't be overturned because some people are getting a bit winded. people are getting wet and 20 out here. sorry about that! i am glad we are talking in the warmth of central
3:51 pm
lobby. —— wet and windy. are talking in the warmth of central lobby. -- wet and windy. this throws doubt over the point of the next two days as far as you are concerned. you are already thinking ahead. well, one of the consequences of the government losing today, assuming it does, and that is likely because of the dup, is the series of votes today and the day after. what happens then will only be effective if the government decides it should be. jacob rees-mogg, in the warm. thank you very much. let's pick up with the conservative mps charles walker. thank you for coming into the cold. i am not charles walker. sorry! how are you voting tonight?” am still in discussions with my local party members and will probably decide as the division bell is called at 7pm. i still haven't made up my mind. it is such a
3:52 pm
polarising issue. so many of my constituents are pulling me in different directions. i haven't made up my different directions. i haven't made up my mind. you sate your constituents but your constituency voted how? —— you say. constituents but your constituency voted how? -- you say. they voted for brexit. on the one hand, we haven't had the legal assurances from the attorney general, nor from the erg panel of lawyers and barristers. to give us the confidence to vote for the deal. we still have reservations about the backstop. and the impact it would have on northern ireland and the integrity of the uk. but we are being told that if we don't vote for this deal now, a whole pandora's box will be opened and we will risk losing brexit. theresa may made that point this afternoon. that is very much now a factor in your decision?
3:53 pm
absolutely, we see increasingly that there are, that parliament has 500 remain mps, just 150 of us genuine brexiteer is. they want to do everything possible to neuter, temper or prevent that happening. i have never known our parliaments being so disconnected from what the british people want and voted for. what happens to theresa may if she loses tonight? where is her authority after tonight?” loses tonight? where is her authority after tonight? i think the prime minister will have to make a statement if she loses the vote. i won't predict what she will say. clearly her position is weakened. if she can't get the deal across, serious questions will be raised as to whether she is the right person to whether she is the right person to continue leading our party and country. she has staked a great deal on getting her version of brexit through the house of commons. does that mean general election?
3:54 pm
possibly, i don't want that, i don't think most mps want a general election. i don't think the people wa nt election. i don't think the people want it. the previous general election was an unnecessary one. i think the lady from bath or bristol would be extremely upset. brenda from bristol. yes, she would be incandescent. but that is clearly an option on the table. what happened last night because there seem to be a sense that theresa may felt she had achieved something? did she? what i will say is that every time the people of any country in the eu, speaking as the first polish born british number of parliament, anyone who has had the temerity to take on the eu, either in denmark, france or ireland, they have been told to vote again. what's happening at the moment is that the eu is trying to make our exit as fraught and complex as possible. so as to put off any other european country following in
3:55 pm
our suits. we can be self—critical, we can and people do call what is happening here a shambles. i don't think it is, i think it is a sovereign nation having the courage to be able to try to take on an entire pan—european supranational project. that's not an easy thing to do. basically there is one hell of a game of bring and ship going on. by jean—claude juncker and the others in the eu. —— brinkmanship. jean—claude juncker and the others in the eu. -- brinkmanship. this is about the whole future of the continent of europe. how it is run and administered. do we protect one another through nato and the americans and canadians, or do we have a simple european army which is what the eu wants? do we protect our currencies or have one for the whole continent? i have just currencies or have one for the whole continent? i havejust been hearing that the eu is telling all the other non—eurozone countries that after 2020, they will all have to abandon their currencies and have the euro. we have a supranational or do we
3:56 pm
allow independent countries to be suffering again? this is a massive clash of ideology of wales and britain has taken on that whole supranational state britain has taken on that whole supra national state structure. britain has taken on that whole supranational state structure. what would be the mood in brussels tonight if theresa may loses?” think they will be as exasperated with us as we are with them. we both see the situation through a very different prison. john kyle junker and donald tusk believe in the supranational project, and donald tusk believe in the supra national project, they and donald tusk believe in the supranational project, they believe the eu ought to be taking more power away from sovereign nation parliaments. —— shall include junker. they will be exasperated and slightly peeved with us. much as we are with them. it's a genuine clash of ideology. when you going to make decision? a lot of my constituents tell me they have decided how to vote when they enter the polling booth. i will decide when the
3:57 pm
division bell goes, and we still have eight minutes then to make a decision. which lobby we go through, so i'm afraid this is the first time in14 so i'm afraid this is the first time in 14 years as an mp that i will probably decide at the last minute. very good of you to come and talk about it. thank you very much. let's catch up with the weather. good afternoon. the storm dominating the weather across the uk over the next 24—hour is. bringing some very strong winds, severe gales likely in places. already some heavy rain. it will bring some travel disruption, perhaps some localised damage. this is how it looks from space. look at this beautiful swell of cloud. this is the storm system, cold air tucking into it, adding to the instability. on the southern edge of the storm we will have the strongest winds. ahead of it we have some heavy rain. this is the radar
3:58 pm
picture from earlier on. this wet weather sinking south eastwards. behind it some turning to snow over high ground. much colder area behind that frontal system as we and the afternoon. temperatures between five and 8 degrees. plenty of showers in the north and west. into this evening the winds will start to pick up. it is looking like an exceptionally windy spell of weather. parts of the north coast of northern ireland this evening and tonight could see gusts up to 80 mph. more widely across northern ireland, western and southern scotland, northern england, gusts of 60 to 70 mph. away from these areas it will be a windy night. gusts towards the south of 40 to 50 mph. lots of showers blowing along on those strong north—westerly winds. some showers heavy and wintry over high ground. temperatures overnight ranging from four to 7 degrees. tomorrow will be a blustery start,
3:59 pm
really strong and gusty winds. went slowly easing a little bit as the day wears on. a mixture of sunshine and showers. some showers heavy with hailand and showers. some showers heavy with hail and thunder. someone treeless over higher ground. despite the strength of the wind temperatures looking not to bad, between nine and 12 degrees. behind me you can see the next weather system, another frontal system which will be working in during wednesday into thursday. quite a lot of light lines on the pressure chart, so a windy spell continues as we head towards the end of the week. a mixture of heavy downpours, a little that of sunshine but it does stay very blustery. —— little bit of sunshine.
4:00 pm
hello, you're watching afternoon live. i'm simon mccoy, at westminster. the headlines at 4: theresa may makes a last—minute plea to mp5, calling for them to back her amended brexit deal tonight, or risk no brexit at all. i think everybody needs to recognise that those who generally want to deliver brexit, that if this deal does not go through tonight then this house risks are brexit at all. but labour leaderjeremy corbyn says the prime minister has failed to achieve any changes to the withdrawal agreement. the prime minister, despite a very expensive delays, has achieved not a single change to the withdrawal agreement. not one single word has changed.
4:01 pm
the democratic unionist party and the tory brexiteer erg group say they won't support her either — after the attorney general said her amended deal isn't enough for him to change his legal advice. let me make it clear. the legal risk asi let me make it clear. the legal risk as i set it out in my letter of the 13th of november remains unchanged. the other main news — the uk in suspending all boeing 737 max aircrafts from its airspace after sunday's crash in ethiopia — boeing says it has full confidence in the jets' safety. coming up on afternoon live all the sport with olly foster. the cheltenham festival is under way and we had a something of a surprise winner at the champion hurdle. tomorrow's racing is in doubt because of the weather. thank you ollie. and it is called here, ben will explain what is going on. we have already had some very heavy rain and there are severe gales in the forecast as well this sort of weather is likely to cause
4:02 pm
disruption. theresa may has opened the brexit debate in the house of commons — ahead of this evening's vote on the amended deal she brought back last night from strasbourg. she's trying to persuade mps to swing behind her to avoid a repeat of the historic defeat she suffered injanuary — but already the democratic unionist party and the erg group of brexiteer mps have said they won't give her their support. the prime minister warned mps that if they made the wrong choice, they could lose brexit altogether. our political correspondent alex forsyth reports this morning westminster was placed for another big moment. he day that will decide the fate of the prime
4:03 pm
minister's brexit plan. theresa may, not for the first time losing her voice, just when she wants to be heard. you should hearjean-claude juncker‘s voice. heard. you should hearjean-claude juncker's voice. trying to persuade mps to get behind her deal tonight. danger is that those of us who want to deliver, is at their sport does not pass tonight, if this deal does not pass tonight, if this deal does not pass tonight, then brexit could be lost. she insisted after meeting leaders yesterday that she had secured a legal changes to the deal. i thought had —— ifought hard secured a legal changes to the deal. i thought had —— i fought hard and a unilateral exit mechanism or replacement of the backstop with alternative mechanisms. the house and knows how complex negotiations work. ultimately you have to practice the art of the possible. i am certain that we have secured the
4:04 pm
very best changes which were available. so what has changed? the backstop, the plan to stop checks on the irish border, has not been are removed. there is a new legal document which emphasises the temporary miss. both sides have committed to finding an alternative to the backstop by december 2020. members of the government rallied around this morning, urging mps to back this deal. it is the only way we cannot really guarantee to deliver brexit. i hope they will support it, it is good news for britain. it has now achieved everything that we hoped we could achieve. in very, very difficult negotiations. will you be changing your legal advice? best man's viewer was key, the attorney general. he issued his legal advice this morning. he said that the uk been
4:05 pm
tied to the backstop indefinitely has been reduced, but it does not been a definite lay removed. some tories are lead their support to the prime minister and their deal, but many mps were not convinced. the withdrawal agreement is not changed and the political declaration is unchanged. the joint statement as a legal interpretation of what is in the withdrawal agreement. the unilateral statement is the uk government are trying to fill its own backbenchers because of the eu has not even signed up to it. crucially the dup has said they will not back the deal and several crucial brexiteers say they will not back the deal. may we are profoundly determined to vote against this withdrawal agreement for those reasons alone. as westminster watches and waits, it seems that the
4:06 pm
prime minister has the uphill struggle to get the support she needs. many mines are turning to what might happen next. let's cross to the palace of westminster and our chief political correspondent, vicki young. what happens next, ? what happens next,? the dup are saying very clearly that they will be voting against the deal. they do not think it is credible. the reinsurance is that have been getting, they do not think that is the case. they fear if we get locked into intractable negotiations with the eu, there really is no way for the eu, there really is no way for the uk to get out. of that backstop, which they hate so much. the european research group and any brexiteers and the tory party, they will be meeting and about one hour to decide what to do. their lawyers have been looking at it very closely. they have decided that there are not any reassurances about any need. that is a big problem. it
4:07 pm
would seem they would not be able to vote for this. there are some switches. there are around maybe 20 conservatives who are changing their mind. the main reason they are getting for that is that they feel they may be jeopardising brexit altogether. the idea that there could be complete chaos if there still is what down tonight, no one really knows what would happen next. we do know there will be a vote on a no deal tomorrow and likely it will be rejected and then a vote after that to extend article 50. the uncertainty as they are and there are some who are very worried that, in the end, we could end up with no brexit altogether. that is what is focusing the minds of some, but it does not look like it will get the deal over the line. thank you very much. our northern ireland business editor, john campbell, joins us from belfast. clearly the border issue at the
4:08 pm
moment is crucial in the hours before this vote. yes, and was as was suggested, the dup have not bought it backstop deal at all. the dup, the issue is that it is as dramatic as the entire future of northern ireland. if you're in a situation where northern ireland is and that backstop and there is no unilateral exit mechanism you could be on unilateral exit mechanism you could beona unilateral exit mechanism you could be on a conveyor belt to the break—up of the union and northern ireland joining the rest of ireland and a united country. and that is the one thing that the dup do not wa nt to the one thing that the dup do not want to see happen. they have looked at the insurances on the backstop and why they are so sceptical about anything that could trap northern ireland any backstop. what a .2 is that a lapsed paragraph of the attorney general‘s advised, they could be in a situation where everybody tries their best, but the backstop is still there and we would
4:09 pm
not be able to leave unless the eu said that was ok. that is their big concern. how representative are the dup of the voice of northern ireland? i think they speak with one voice in terms of political unionism. , for example the ulster unionist party, do not support the backstop. another small party do not support the backstop. but when we look more broadly, the nationalist parties and, if you like, the middle ground parties are all ok with the backstop. the business community is 0k backstop. the business community is ok with the backstop. they say it is better that we have something in place rather than the rest of meeting without a deal. some of the polling evidence would suggest that while some parties do not support the backstop, some individual voters might. in some way the dup represent the voice of political unionism, but they don't represent everybody and northern ireland, by any means.
4:10 pm
john, in terms of northern ireland and if there is a vote against theresa may tonight, the next thing is the issue of leaving without a deal and that is something again, that there is concern across the uk about? yes, definitely so. if brexit goes bad, then that is no deal, then the regions that would suffer most would be northern ireland. we have had a warning from the head of the northern ireland civil service who said, we could see a spike in unemployment, major impacts on northern ireland. we also have business groups in northern ireland who have said that the very worst thing would be for the uk to leave without a deal. that would leave northern ireland very exposed, because clearly we have at those highly integrated supply chains across the border, particularly in the food industry and in a no deal
4:11 pm
situation, they would suffer. although commonly dup would reject that, they say that a no deal is better than a deal that theresa may has on the table. thank you. if you are heeding a lot of noise, it is because there are a lot of people out here on a hugely important day in the brexit process. a number of flags and, as we said, it's about 50-50 in flags and, as we said, it's about 50—50 in terms of those pro and anti. when they see the lights go on in the media tense, that is when the noise picks up. they are watching us watching them, watching us. despite the appalling weather this afternoon, they are keeping their loud voices. that is the scene here at westminster. let's find out what is happening in brussels. our europe correspondent, kevin
4:12 pm
connolly is in brussels for us. will there be disappointment from the reaction from the attorney general to that meeting with strasbourg last night? nibble and hope he would have said something different and they would hope to meet in parliament is different. that is no real surprise here. there isa that is no real surprise here. there is a growing sense of frustration, of worry. behind the scenes there is a bit of anger about all how all of this has paid out. the european union's view is, look, we have negotiated this withdrawal agreement with the british government, now this is a subsidiary stage of the process where we now have to be negotiated, not only with the british palate, but with factions within the british parliament who are hostile to the european project. that is how the difficulty is framed here. we have been talking for years about the clock running down and the kind being kicked down the road. the
4:13 pm
ticking of the clock is about to stop and there is not much road left. something very big and creative is going to have to be thought of in the next couple of weeks to avoid a crash, if it crashes to be avoided. i've heard from a couple of mps this afternoon who are saying that this is still pa rt who are saying that this is still part of that eu trick that they take your right to the very end. we heard whatjean—claude juncker said last night, there is no third attempt at this. but is there? you get a second chance, but you don't get is a chance. i know there are people in london watching who are saying, you get is a chance, but you don't get it for a chance. i know there is a culture in british politics that somehow the european union always keeps an oar pulls a rabbit out of the hat at the very 59th minute. i'm not sure how much evidence there is for that. in the really long, not sure how much evidence there is forthat. in the really long, big trade negotiations that they have, like the trade negotiations with
4:14 pm
canada or japan. that like the trade negotiations with canada orjapan. that is a cultural sense in british politics about how the eu works, but the eu has been pretty unified in the brexit negotiations. it hasn't really done very much, if you think about it, since the withdrawal agreement was agreed. we were thinking that there may have been very big rheumatic emergency meetings of the european council and lots of summits, emergency meetings like the one we saw between theresa may and jean—claude juncker, but there has been surprisingly little of that. surprisingly little has been happening on the side of the channel. so for that reason, i would be expecting rabbits to remain within hats here. they don't feel there is much more they can do. in there is much more they can do. in the context of having already agreed to the withdrawal agreement with the british government. thank you very much.
4:15 pm
guto bebb is here. i will be voting against the prime minister's deal. that is very little detail about the future relationship andi detail about the future relationship and i think it is important for our industry and agriculture to understand where we are going next. this is not about the future relationship, but the best deal? since the negotiations were massive and the negotiations and the divorce deal we are separated we have been heading towards this disaster point in my view. people like myself feel we are going into something that is a great unknown. and those of you who want a hard brexit are refusing to back the deal because they feel they are going to be held into the european union for a very long time. what about the idea that, if there isa what about the idea that, if there is a yes vote, there is a two year
4:16 pm
transition period to deal with exactly what you're talking about? the 21 months will be another 21 months of acrimony and argument in westminster. we do not have an agreement on the future relationship. when we talk about the backstop and so forth, my main concern is not that. manning concern is that we are going into a blind brexit. if you said to the public that we end up another 21 months of arguments, they will be dismayed, but that is the reality. what are the options? i have been very consistent in my views. i have said since i resigned that theresa may should be having a referendum on her deal or on any deal. we need to avoid this betrayal narrative which is going to be a real problem in our politics. we need to make sure that the facts of the matter have changed. we need people to either
4:17 pm
support there will we are leaving, or not. we cannot let this betrayal narrative play on our politics. you're assuming that will resolve it. what if it doesn't? what are the problems become tenfold? there would then be a vote on whatever parliament has agreed. there would bea parliament has agreed. there would be a vote in support of that by the british people. and i think that is an important point. why is it any more important in the last referendum? now because all that was promised in the 2016 referendum has not been delivered. that is because in 2016 we were given all sorts of promises. that are not delivered bill. i think it is absolutely crucial that anything we do should be put to the british people for a final referendum. people in 2016 voted for brexit. the prime minister has made it clear that if you vote yes to this deal tonight that brexit happens. that is not a betrayal.” would say that is possibly not a
4:18 pm
betrayal, but the very people voting against the prime minister's deal either very people who supported eczema strongly. all the correspondence i have —— who supported brexit strongly full stop all the correspondence i have in my inbox as people who... i would have a deal put towards the people, but it'd have to be deliverable deal. that would mean holding on our treaties like the good friday agreement. i don't think any government should be advocating an option which is picking some of our international obligations. . i have said to the premise very clearly that if we want to do her deal and toa that if we want to do her deal and to a customs union —type agreement going forward, even a sort of normal style arrangement going forward, they would all be acceptable to me, subject to endorsement by the british people. if she loses tonight, can she hang on? play
4:19 pm
minister has shown a greater duty —— the prime minister has shown a great deal of duty and responsibility and if she wants to stay on, she can. it would be entirely her call. she has already said she does not intend to fight the next election.” already said she does not intend to fight the next election. i believe she will not want to leave in this current situation. and some will say that it will be a mess of her making in the first place. part of it is that parliament cannot agree to move forward. we have been handicapped in this process by the hijacking of the brexit vote in this view by the more extreme elements of the conservative party. promises that can't be delivered by government, because quite categorically, what they have done throughout this process is set a number of goals and that the prime minister and the government can't possibly meet. that has created a problem for the prime minister. i
4:20 pm
wouldn't blame her alone. what about the role of the dup? they are important i lies and we have a majority government because of the dup. frankly i think their position is difficult to understand in view of the backstop. the backstop has never been a huge concern of mine as i genuinely believe that it is as bad for the european union as a test for the dup. i genuinely do believe that the european union have no real interest in maintaining that backstop. it has never been a big issue for me and i'm not sure why the dup are so concerned about the backstop. nothing will change your mind? nothing has changed my mind since january. it hasn't changed and change my vote doesn't make much sense to me. thank you. and you can see full coverage here on bbc news as the drama
4:21 pm
unfolds this evening, andrew neil presents live from westminster as the house of commons votes on theresa may's brexit deal. some of the news. the uk civil aviation authority has this afternoon confirmed that all boeing 737 max 8 aircraft currently operating in the uk have been grounded. it follows the ethiopian airlines crash on sunday, in which all 157 people onboard were killed. a number of countries have grounded the planes but the us and the european aviation safety agency haven't done so. there does seem to be a disconnect between the regulatory authorities here. the boeing 737 max 8 is has almost rubber—stamped by the european safety agency and the civil aviation authority would usually accept those decisions. but the caa has gone out on a limb here and has
4:22 pm
decided to unilaterally ban it from operating in uk airspace at all, let alone landing and taking off from uk airports. it says it has done had this other precaution because no one knows what happens to the ethiopian airlines that crashed on sunday. that is the second accident that happened of this type of aircraft, there are only a few hundred of these types in circulating at the moment. it does not the effect that many aircraft as there are only one handful of them operating in and out of the uk. two climbers have died and two have been injured in an avalanche on ben nevis, police say. a number of emergency services were sent to the scene at the uk's highest peak. the scottish avalanche information service assessed the potential avalanche risk the ben nevis area as "high". welcome back to westminster, where theresa may has opened
4:23 pm
the brexit debate in the house of commons — ahead of this evening's vote on the amended deal she brought back last night from strasbourg. she's trying to persuade mps to swing behind her — to avoid a repeat of the historic defeat she suffered injanuary — but already the democratic unionist party and the erg group of brexiteer mps have signaled that they won't give her their support. the prime minister warned mps that if they made the wrong choice, they could lose brexit altogether. the snp's europe spokesperson, stephen gethins is here. how will you be voting? will be voting against it. it is still bad for the economy and for her food and drink cans to destroy and for educational opportunities. can't vote for it. what do you think that brexit could be lost altogether? now that's fine. that's what you want? since day one we have tried to engage with the government. we have
4:24 pm
been trying to speak with the government and the scottish government and the scottish government set up a committee of experts to take us through this and all this covenant have been interested in doing is to speak to the dup and their extremists. there is one tory mp trying to appeal to the head—bangers. is one tory mp trying to appeal to the head-bangers. what about the rest of the no—deal brexit? the head-bangers. what about the rest of the no-deal brexit? we put down a motion to rule out a new deal. tomorrow there will be an opportunity, if the prime minister sticks to her word, and she does not have a great track record at the moment. we should have the opportunity to take no deal of the table and we will be voting to take no deal of the table. at this time we need to come together and try to find a way through this. colleagues in the liberal democrats and plaid cymru and the greens who want to give those out there i final say before we leave egypt. so if they vote against a no deal —— before we
4:25 pm
leave the eu. we r 2.5 or three yea rs on leave the eu. we r 2.5 or three years on from the referendum. we are in this mess because of brexiteers and senior ministers in government who had no plan and have blown their chance. we need to get out of this mess and the best way at the moment is to have that extension now. because you want another referendum? we would like to give people a final say. it is too important. people had their say two years ago, but people in this building has failed to deliver. that is nonsense. i represent a rimane constituency in an overwhelmingly romaine country as well. —— a remain constituency and
4:26 pm
an overwhelmingly remain can as well. those that want to leave her the courage of their convictions, have the guts to say and set out what they think our relationship with the european union should look like in the future. because they have not done that so far. what do you think theresa may does if she loses tonight? what can she do? the majority of this country, two years ago voted for something that she says this is the only opportunity. is that it? we have already offered one compromise, to stay in the single market and the customs union. there was one question, do you want to leave the european union or not? that is what the labour view is.
4:27 pm
anything short of remaining in the eu is bad forjobs and i cannot afford to take the opportunities from young people that i had i cannot from young people that i had i ca n not vote from young people that i had i cannot vote for. we need to find a way through this and that means of reaching out to other parties, speaking to other parties. they manage it in the scottish apartment, where we have a minority government, they manage it in other european legislatures, but we can't manage it in this european legislature.“ legislatures, but we can't manage it in this european legislature. it was raised again this afternoon, talk of the independence referendum being held again in scotland. do you have a sense that inside that building, i'm not going to use the word disloyalty, but that you're using the fraction is —— the fletcher's atmosphere to chip away with your own agenda, that you're not taking
4:28 pm
into account what the majority of people in this house want to happen? i have a responsibility to not make my constituents further. that is what i would be doing with this deal. you are trying to make me sit here and justify what the conservative party are up to. this isa conservative party are up to. this is a tory civil war. i cannot stop that even if i wanted to. today you saw something important. the prime minister made her statement with actually empty and deserted benches because of the toadies were all over the place plotting with each other. instead the should have been —— the tories were all over the place plotting. they should have been here. they are always nice about their ex leaders and that is what their ex leaders and that is what the prime minister looks like at the moment, an ex leader of the conservative party. the country deserves much more. my country and the rest of the uk as well. then a clueless government that are being ripped apart by a tory civil war. do you feel you are much closer to
4:29 pm
another referendum, more than you ever have before? i feel we are closer to giving people another say. i voted to remain, but it is not up to me to say what my opponents had campaigned on. i do not want scotla nd campaigned on. i do not want scotland to be taken out of the european union. making us poorer. i wa nt to european union. making us poorer. i want to be in the same way as ireland who are similar independent states. i do not want the people of england to be poorer either. time for a look at the weather. storm gareth is going to make its presence felt already. we have had flood warnings. a combination that is already bringing some travel disruption. there could be some localised damage as well.
4:30 pm
this is the culprit. it looks beautiful on the view from space. this swirl of cloud, a deep area of low pressure. the strongest of the winds on the southern flank as well. just starting to edge towards northern ireland will stop at the head of the stronger ones, that kind of rain is clearly on the radar. some squally, gusty winds. on the back edge of that we had even seen a little bit of snow, because it has been turning in considerably colder. lots of showers for the rest of this afternoon. blizzards across high ground in scotland as the wind picks up. the sky takes on a wintry complexion temperatures around five to7 complexion temperatures around five to 7 degrees by the end of the day. the winds will be the big story. the storm pushing through the north of the uk, you can see the strong winds are piling in through northern ireland. we are likely to see wind gusts quite likely perhaps 75 to 80 mph. very blustery for western and
4:31 pm
southern scotland. northern england and the isle of man. since ferry celcius have already been cancelled in some places. northville is also some blustery winds. strong winds through the night, a lot of showers along with that. some of these are thundery. now we are really immune from that there winds. those gusts of wind are 50 to 40 miles an hour. some pretty unpleasant conditions tonight temperatures between four and 7 degrees. into tomorrow, it will remain windy and particular gusty across ireland, northern ireland. down into the midlands. those winds are very slow to ease through the day. we will see spells of sunshine and some heavy, perhaps thundery, showers. likely to be further unfair between as the day wears on. temperatures a little higher than they were today. it will be windy, and wednesday night brings another area of the pressure. not
4:32 pm
healthy but some blustery weather. it still unsettled right through the rest of this week. weather running is in force for the next few days. check those on the bbc weather website.
4:33 pm
4:34 pm
4:35 pm
4:36 pm
4:37 pm
4:38 pm
4:39 pm
4:40 pm
4:41 pm
4:42 pm
4:43 pm
4:44 pm
4:45 pm
4:46 pm
4:47 pm
4:48 pm
4:49 pm
4:50 pm
4:51 pm
4:52 pm
4:53 pm
4:54 pm
4:55 pm
4:56 pm
4:57 pm
4:58 pm
4:59 pm
5:00 pm

204 Views

info Stream Only

Uploaded by TV Archive on