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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  March 21, 2019 5:00pm-6:01pm GMT

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£5 could provide clean water for one today at six , we‘re live in brussels , for the crucial eu family for ten days. summit, looking to break £20 could provide a family the deadlock , just eight days with an emergency shelter kit. this is bbc news. i‘m christian fraser live at the european council today at 5pm, we're live summit in brussels. in brussels, for the crucial eu in the past hour we have heard that summit, looking to break eu leaders will agree the deadlock, just eight days to theresa may‘s request to delay before britain is set to leave the european union. the uk‘s exit from the bloc. the prime minister arrived, with a familiar message, urging mps to back her deal, but only until the 22nd as she prepared to ask fellow leaders for a short brexit delay. of may and provided mps in westminster back the deal. an extension should be conditional asi as i said yesterday, this delay is a matter of personal regret to me, but ona a short extension would give parliament the time to make a final choice that delivers on the result of the referendum. an extension should be conditional on a positive we‘re expecting a news conference shortly with confirmations of those but it all depends on the stance with confirmations of those details from the president of other eu leaders, of the european council donald tusk they signalled they'd approve a delay, but only if mps backed the deal. such an extension should be conditional on a positive vote next week in the house of commons. we
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have done our best. and business leaders and trade union bosses, write to theresa may, urging her to change tack, and avoid a no—deal brexit, which they say would be a ‘national emergency‘. it's 6pm here in brussels, where the crucial eu summit is under way, with just eight days, to the set date for the uk's departure from the eu. theresa may arrived here at lunchtime, to make a direct plea to eu leaders, asking to postpone brexit for three months. we're expecting a statement from the eu, on the outcome of the talks, very soon. earlier, mrs may appealed again
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to the house of commons to help her deliver brexit, saying the need for a delay was ‘a matter of great personal regret‘. last night, she upset many mps, when she blamed them for causing the delay. labour'sjeremy corbyn has also been in brussels, for his own brexit talks with leaders. ican i canjust i can just tell you i canjust tell you in i can just tell you in the i canjust tell you in the past i can just tell you in the past few moments, we're getting some suggestions that the eu leaders might be in a position to be offering mrs may a delay on brexit possibly until the 22nd of may. that is not as long as she wanted but longer than some people had been predicting. we can't confirm that yet and i will ask our europe editor about this in just a moment, yet and i will ask our europe editor about this injust a moment, but first. let's start with this report by our europe correspondent damian grammaticas. departing downing street, the prime minister. she has run down the clock and now heading for brussels, the pressure is on her.
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days till brexit and no agreement passed. in brussels, eu leaders gathering ahead of her seem unified, still. they say it is time for parliament to make a decision. only after that might a delay to brexit be possible. i had a feeling it is very important to know what the british parliament wa nt and, the last months, it was easy for the british parliament to say what they do not want but now it is time to decide. and what if no deal passes parliament? the question i put to luxembourg's prime minister. what if there is no positive vote next week, should the uk be granted a longer extension? should that still be a possibility? if you organise european elections, we can discuss about that. but i will not grant a delay after european elections, if you do not have european elections in your own country. can you sum up the mood on the european side? are people quite frankly fed up of the uk?
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i have sometimes the feeling like we are in the waiting room a bit like waiting for godot. but godot never came, so i hope this time they will come. ireland's prime minister has said it is time to cut the uk some slack. but mrs may will still have to convince eu leaders how a delay will help. we have always said that any extension has to have a purpose, so we will see how that discussion goes. eu leaders are sceptical she can get parliament to pass her deal. jeremy corbyn was also in brussels today talking to the eu, still pressing his alternative vision for brexit. our determination is to prevent a no—deal exit from the european union next friday, and we therefore are looking for alternatives and building a majority in parliament that can agree on a future constructive economic relationship with the eu. at summits before this one, mrs may has, if anything, hardened attitudes among other leaders, not won them over. this may be her last chance.
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as i said yesterday, this delay is a matter of personal regret to me, but a short extension would give parliament the time to make a final choice that delivers on the result of the referendum. i've always said that although we are leaving the european union, of course we will continue to have shared interests, notably among those our shared security and prosperity, so the uk will continue to be involved in discussions. what is clear is that the eu's patience with the uk is starting to run out. other countries want to avoid a chaotic uk exit next week, but increasingly they also want brexit done. damian grammaticas, bbc news, brussels. so the talking is well under way, all of the diplomats are deepin under way, all of the diplomats are deep in talks. michelle barnier was one of those answering lots of questions about what would happen if the uk opted to extend article 50. the short extension of the departure dealfor the uk, chosen by the uk,
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such an extension should be conditional on a positive vote next week in the house of commons. we have done our best. we have done our best, and now the solution is in london. a very direct message from michelle barnier. our europe editor katya adler has the latest. let's talk first of all about these initial signals coming from the talks this afternoon, with a possible date for an extension. what do you make of it? you've got all 27 eu leaders all huddled in their together, and ahead of them really getting down to all the dirty details, they've released draft summit conclusions. now this is very normal here at the summit, and what they suggest is that the leaders are responding to theresa may's request for a short extension. they don't accept her request for a delay until
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the 30th of june, accept her request for a delay until the 30th ofjune, they say it can only be until the 22nd of may. this is not unexpected, this is because theresa may says the uk will not be taking part in the european parliamentary elections so in order to separate brexit from those elections which take place as of the 23rd of may, that means the short extension ends on the 22nd. and that short extension say the draft conclusions is conditional on parliament voting in favour of the negotiated brexit deal next week. now please let me underline these are now please let me underline these a re d raft now please let me underline these are draft summit conclusions. the 27 eu leaders are now discussing those conclusions and others, because they are not just conclusions and others, because they are notjust talking amongst themselves about a short extension, and then we will know what they finally decide at the end of it. do the draft conclusions often change? they can change, they changed in december, much to theresa may's shock at the time, so you can't take anything for granted, especially as this is not just anything for granted, especially as this is notjust a political and a legal debate, it is an emotional debate for these leaders, as well.
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back at westminster, it is very clear that growing mps see this with eight days to go as a simple choice, either they back a deal brought by theresa may or is it no deal, is that how eu leaders see it here? absolutely not, and they are kind of skirting around the issue as well, because they say they will grant a short extension if the withdrawal agreement is not passed in parliament next week, but they don't com plete parliament next week, but they don't complete the... after that, they don't say if it is not passed there will be a no—deal brexit. emmanuel macron was misquoted earlier today saying that, they said that would bring us towards a no—deal brexit but he went on to say in french that there would be a possibility of a longer extension as well, and that's also what eu leaders are discussing about that possibility and that rumour persists that they may find themselves comment i could be here with you again in just one week's time, foran with you again in just one week's time, for an emergency brexit summit by boro leaders, frustrated as they are with the brexit process, they would like to avoid a no—deal brexit if possible, because they don't want
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to be blamed by their citizens and businesses for a costly no—deal brexit, and that is in the forefront of their minds. that longer extension possibility hangs around because they know the uk has other options, as well. the uk could revoke brexit now before the 29th of march, orup until revoke brexit now before the 29th of march, or up until the end of an extension if it is granted, there could be a second referendum, a general election, there are all sorts of other possibilities. so if there is a longer extension granted, that would give the uk time to refocus and shift. we will see what they do a bit later. i mention westminster, a good moment for us to touch base with my colleague vicki young, and especially after the prime minister address last night which i think it's fair to say didn't go down very well in lots of quarters. it has upset a lot of mps ata time quarters. it has upset a lot of mps at a time when of course theresa may desperately needs dozens of them to change their mind and get behind her deal and it seems to have had the
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opposite effect. many of them feel she has added to the hostility that many of them are already feeling and they think that actually it is polarising views. you talk about the dot dot dot and it is about what happens if theresa may's deal does not go through, and even her own ministers have no idea what she would do if we got to the position next week where her deal has been rejected for a third time. would she be willing to go down the route of i'io be willing to go down the route of no deal, or would she attack to a different kind of brexit, the fact that can't be answered means that all of those issues are still being talked about now her de facto deputy david liddington was having meetings today with opposition mps, some from the independent group and from labour mps the independent group and from labourmps as the independent group and from labour mps as well, who have in the past been working towards a scenario where mps take over the process. now the government has promised that if the government has promised that if the deal fails to go through they will provide some kind of process to let mps vote on all the different
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scenarios to try to come to a conclusion, something that they all agree on, but let's face it, at that point you will probably talking about wednesday next week, two days before that deadline and there are a lot of anxious mps around here. we will touch base later, thank you very much, vicki young with the latest thoughts at westminster. the german chancellor angela michael has appealed for calm and said every effort should be made to ensure that the uk does leave the eu in what she called an orderly manner. translation: i think you and i, we all must be aware that we are dealing with something of historical importance, and therefore we must also tread carefully, and above all do everything possible to the last hour to ensure that there may be an orderly exit for the uk from the eu. that means that we have to consider the interests of all sides, including those of the british, and so the discussion today with the british prime minister is, of course, very important because she can tell
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us how she sees things from her perspective, and then we in turn will formulate ourjudgment. that was the german chancellor angela merkel speaking a short while ago. there has been a range of m essa 9 es ago. there has been a range of messages from european leaders as they arrived today. the prime minister of luxembourg turned up about lunchtime, saying very clearly that he thought there was the possibility of edging towards no deal, unless there was an element of compromise, and unless there was, in his words, a clear message from the house of commons, and that has been reflected, that message, from european leaders all throughout the day. wanting the house of commons to come to some clear review. the irish mep mairead, who is vice—president of the european parliament, is here. here we are today, what is your take on it? i suppose my take is very
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straightforward, i think the word meaningful and meaningless has been used all the time. when we talk about an extension, i think the leaders and the european parliament wa nt to leaders and the european parliament want to see a meaningful extension. we area want to see a meaningful extension. we are a bit concerned about a meaningless extension, and you know what i mean by that, in other words we need to know and understand that the prime minister's plan will work next week, and of course none of us can predict that, and i'm sure the prime minister is equally trying to count the numbers, and the closer we get to the 29th we are also talking about a no deal scenario, and i think europe, individual member states are making those preparations for that no deal scenario. there is also a sense of what donald tusk said of frustration, i suppose a fatigue around brexit, on the other hand we all have to wake ourselves up hand we all have to wake ourselves up because it is far too serious to allow fatigue to take over at this stage. and there is a great willingness to try and help the united kingdom to get over this particular impasse, but to some extent we watch, as you watch, because we are not voting on this. we don't have the influence or the
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power, that is down to those who are elected by the uk citizens. i have reflected as i look around here and all the drama of all of this, and we have drama in the house of commons, and this is 2019, and this began in 2016. i have to say, without being mean—spirited, an ill—advised referendum, badly prepared with no plan for what might happen if the uk citizens voted to leave. and i think that's quite tragic really for all of us, because we are still in this awful quandary. some indications that the leaders may have come up with a date, a possible date for an extension, may be the 22nd of may or something like that, not what mrs may wanted, but longer than other people have predicted. but as you say, without a reason for it, that is still problematic, isn't it?|j think you are right on the date, may 22 is the date i have been hearing andi 22 is the date i have been hearing and i think will be in the conclusions. i know the prime minister would prefer a date closer to the end ofjune. the difficulty
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is the european parliament elections and there is a real concern we don't cause legal problems inside europe because of brexit. my god, there are enough problems arising from it. that is why the date of the 22nd of may in my view is on the table. there is another issue, because it should things go wrong and perhaps a lengthy extension required, then we are looking at the uk needing to prepare for parliamentary elections, and that would need to happen i think by the 11th or 12th of april. so it is very soon. what troubles me is when i listen to the prime minister last night and of course she is working to try and persuade people to come with her, both from inside where she has deep divisions and outside her party, that she is not if you like saying no deal is off the table, and as we speak today, the date is fixed in legislation. you know this, and it has to be changed by legislation. but as i understand it, that can only happen if the european union grant the extension, so it is a little bit like what is going to
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happen first here. i do sense here and my colleagues in the european parliament arejust and my colleagues in the european parliament are just trying to number crunch, and we are trying to think through the consequences of next week and all the various permutations that might arise from it, and because we are in a parliament ourselves and we know how parliaments can be difficult, and i chaira parliaments can be difficult, and i chair a parliament so i have some respect for the speaker, i also think that we don't want to see parliaments being locked like they are in the house of commons. i think it does democracy no favours. but i suppose it reflects the society in the uk, that there is a division still over brexit, and that there are very strong views. i mean, that's what i find extraordinary, on both sides. and you know, it is quite interesting, if you look at the coalition against their withdrawal agreement, it is made up by people who want to remain in the european union and of people who are against even an agreement, just want to crash out. so i suppose that is a very difficult mix to deal with, and
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i hope that right prevails, whatever thatis, i hope that right prevails, whatever that is, because in my heart, if i'm honest, i'd love that this wasn't happening. i would dearly love the united kingdom to stay part of the european union but my head knows that you are leaving, and therefore we need the living to be amicable, we need the living to be amicable, we don't want any slamming of doors 01’ we don't want any slamming of doors or things said that we would regret because we will have to work together for the future, particularly the irish, we are such close neighbours. i represent the constituency with northern ireland. soi constituency with northern ireland. so i also know that in that area where i represent, there are deep feelings of upset and distress about should things go wrong. do you think just briefly to end, did you think that we are closer, notjust in terms of time, but that we are closer, in terms of strategy or a lack of it, to no deal than we were may be just a few days ago? yes, if i look at the code numbers, but politically i don't think we can allow that happen. the prime minister has been tough on that but
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she also has a vote in the house of commons saying we don't want a no—deal brexit, so perhaps that sense may prevail, but that requires an awful lot of things to happen in an awful lot of things to happen in a very short period of time, so it is running out. good to talk to you, thank you very much indeed. very good of maria mcguinness to join us and to share her views of what is going on here, because as she says, she is chairing lots of sessions in the european parliament and knows the machine very well here, so an interesting insight from here, so an interesting insight from her and of course very close to the irish government too. the head of today's summit, ahead of today's european summit, business and union leaders issued and union leaders issued a joint plea to the prime minister, urging her to ‘change course‘ in her approach to brexit. the heads of britain‘s biggest employers‘ grouping, the confederation of british industry, and union umbrella organisation the trades union congress, wrote a letter to theresa may requesting an urgent meeting to discuss their concerns.
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the director general of the cbi, carolyn fairbairnjoins us from westminster. carolyn, thank you for coming along to talk to us. for those viewers who have not seen the letter, what did you ask the prime minister? we are deeply concerned about the risk of no deal. it has been greeted with rising alarm by businesses across the country who employ 27 million people, which is why we are speaking up people, which is why we are speaking upjointly with people, which is why we are speaking up jointly with the tuc. our message is very clear, we are calling on the government, we are calling on the prime minister to rule out no deal far more clearly. it now feels like not just a possibility far more clearly. it now feels like notjust a possibility but far more clearly. it now feels like not just a possibility but a probability. we are asking for an extension to be absolutely on the table, 88% of businesses want that, and crucially we are asking for a new spirit of compromise to come into these conversations. it cannot bea into these conversations. it cannot be a choice between this deal on the table and no deal, otherwise we will be doing reckless damage to our economy. the trouble with that as
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you know better than anyone is that with just you know better than anyone is that withjust eight you know better than anyone is that with just eight days to go, exploring other options, given the very, very, very tight parliamentary and legislative timetable is now appearing to some people almost impossible. we think that parliament is able to move quickly if it is given the chance to do so, and that is the kind of leadership we are looking for. business has been supportive of the deal and they still see merits in it, and of course they should be given the chance, but if it fails there needs to be the opportunity for a compromise to be found that could command a majority in the commons. this is now about real people in real communities across the country, and just the businesses i speak to are not ready for a hard brexit, they are simply not ready, and the damage to our economy and real people would be great, so that is why we now need the urgency and we are calling on the leadership to be able to make that possible. so just to underline, given that the prime minister was pretty forthright last
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night in downing street, saying that really parliament was to blame for this delay, not her, and she called on people really to come on—board at this late stage, what was your response to the message, and maybe i should ask what was your response to the tone of the message she adopted? what we all need to see is that we are all in this together and that kind of sense of blame is exactly where we should not be right now. and the tuc and the cbi don‘t always agree on everything, this is a time to put differences to one side and work out a way through that. and we are calling on the prime minister very directly, she has the power to do that, to create a mechanism for finding where agreement might lie. and we think that that is now desperately, desperately urgent, because the idea of crashing out of the european union without a deal next friday is just unconscionable and just needs to be avoided. thank you so much forjoining us
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today at westminster. our thanks to carolyn. another development today. a petition on the uk parliament‘s website, demanding brexit be stopped, has passed a million signatures. the petition calls for "article 50" of the lisbon treaty, the legislation which triggered britain‘s withdrawal from the european union, to be revoked. the petition took off in the hours after the prime minister‘s televised address last night, it‘s been attracting thousands of signatures every few minutes. so many people were signing it earlier today that part of the website crashed, and the number of signatories continues to rise. it is still climbing, it is at 1.1 million plus at the moment, although i have to say, as people were underlining the attractiveness of the petition for lots of people, andrea leadsom, the leader of the house, said when it reaches 17.4
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million, referring to the referendum of 2016, that is the time to take notice of it, so there is clearly a different view on the petition but it has certainly climbed up very rapidly to over one million and we will see what happens to it in the next few hours or so. we can speak now to the author of article 50, lord kerr, a former uk permanent representative to the eu, whojoins us from central london. lord kerr, thank you forjoining us, what is your take on where we are today? on the edge of the cliff, and it‘s very uncomfortable and i very much agree with what carolyn fairburn has been saying, it seems to be that the tuc and that cbi are quite right to say that a no deal crash out is unconscionable and must be avoided. what is worrying to me is that the prime minister still seems determined that the only two choices the house of commons must look at our her deal or no deal.
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when we see that petition that calls for article 50 to be revoked, i‘m just wondering, from your point of view, can you see just wondering, from your point of view, can you see a just wondering, from your point of view, can you see a path to that, a likely political path to that? yes, ican. i likely political path to that? yes, i can. i mean, i have no doubt that if the british government decided to step back and have a national debate, and think about soft brexit, think about the idea, maybe have a general election, or think about a second referendum, there is absolutely no doubt that a longer extension would be available, and one could foresee a european council meeting towards the end of next week. if the prime minister once again failed to get her meaningful vote in the house of commons and the house of commons has again rejected, as i‘m sure they will come of the idea of no deal. the european union would prefer that britain stays a member. the european union is extremely alarmed about the idea of
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no deal. it hurts everybody, it hurts us and the irish more than anybody else but it hurts everybody, soi anybody else but it hurts everybody, so i can see a political path. i don‘t myself think that the petition which asks for instant revocation of the article 50 notification, withdrawal of our request to leave, i doubt if that is politically doable without the cover of a general election or a referendum. i think one would have to go back to the people to get authority to do something different from what the people asked for in 2016. but of course the people didn‘t say they wa nted course the people didn‘t say they wanted a hard brexit, they didn‘t say they wanted a no—deal brexit, there was no discussion of the irish border, there was no discussion of soft or hard, so it is rather odd that the prime minister thinks that the only way of delivering on the
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2016 referendum is by the deal that she negotiated. we are just seeing the images of the prime minister with president macron and chancellor merkel, do you think that european leaders here, having offered a p pa re ntly leaders here, having offered apparently may the 22nd as an extension, are fully taking for granted, as you havejust extension, are fully taking for granted, as you have just said, extension, are fully taking for granted, as you havejust said, that mrs may will simply not get a deal through the commons next week?|j think through the commons next week?” think if mrs may doesn‘t get a deal through the commons next week, i think that then the possibility of a longer extension becomes real. but i think what is required, what the 27 member states would want to see, is that there was some change of plan, some change of policy, perhaps a change of parliament for an election, perhaps a change of prime minister. i think they don‘t like the idea of many more months of kicking the can down the road and
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blaming parliament for delay when the delay is entirely of the prime minister‘s making. the delay is entirely of the prime minister's making. when we look at the political landscape as it is in the political landscape as it is in the uk now, lord kerr, and it is pretty volatile, as we all know, do you think that landscape could survive a calling of a second referendum at this point? because clearly that would be an incredibly provocative move for lots of people who believe in the brexit outcome. it would be tense, i agree, i think it would be even more tense if, given that the public opinion polls show that there is quite a large majority in the country now would like to remain, and a very large majority is against the prime minister‘s terms, i think it would be more socially divisive if the prime minister were to drag us out of the european union without giving
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the people a chance to say if that‘s what they want to do. the public opinion polls show that among the under 50s, there is a huge majority now in favour of having a second referendum, and i think if you consider the demography, it is people my age who voted to leave by a large majority. there are fewer of us a large majority. there are fewer of us around than there were in 2016, some of us have gone. there‘s a whole lot of new people have joined the electoral register. if nobody change their mind, if the same proportion of every age group voted, and voted exactly as they did last time, we would now be voting to remain, because some of the levers have gone and a whole lot of people who would vote to remain have joined the register. so i think it is socially divisive either way. i also think it is extremely dangerous to argue that the country must make up its mind on the basis of fear of
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thuggery. fear of thugs. think of european history, think of the 30s, think of germany, that is a very dangerous road to go down. i think we need a civilised, open debate on the options, starting in parliament, which still has not been allowed to have indicative votes on alternatives to the prime minister‘s deal. lord kerr, very good of you to join us, thank you very much indeed, lord kerr, the former uk permanent representative to the european union, who knows this place back to front and is in fact the author of article 50, the mechanism that takes britain out of the eu. just to update you very quickly, we think the draft proposal is that there is an extension on brexit until the 22nd of may. we have to wait for the outcome for that. our coverage continues with christian fraser. from me, it is goodbye.
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welcome back to brussels. it is a lwa ys welcome back to brussels. it is always the busiest time of the day just before 6.30 local time and the journalists have got the draft conclusions. a lot ofjournalists hear coming conclusions. a lot ofjournalists hearcoming up to conclusions. a lot ofjournalists hear coming up to the evening deadline and you can feel the helm in the room. an urgency to get the copy over to europe‘s papers before they hurtle off to the press conferences we are expecting in the course of the next hour. to give you a bit of timetable, we expect donald tusk the european council president and jean—claude juncker to tell us what went on in the room this afternoon. the prime minister speaking to them for longer than we anticipated. she spoke for 90 minutes this afternoon, with a question and answer session, she was
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asked several times what might happen next week if her deal goes down for a third time. in the last few minutes, we have got those draft conclusions. let me give you some of the major lines from it. firstly, to confirm there will be a short extension. they set the date, the end date as the 22nd of may, the day just before the european parliamentary elections. there is an interesting line that says given that the uk has indicated it will not be fielding candidates for that european election, this will be the only extension that is granted. they confirm again the withdrawal agreement will not be reopened, so there is no further negotiation on there is no further negotiation on the agreement as it stands, although they have adopted those legal documents, thinking all the way back to last monday when the prime minister was in strasbourg, the legal documents have been adopted by the council and many leaders on their way into the building today so that should give mps the legal assurances they require on the
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backstop. we will see next week whether that is the case. so we have had plenty of reaction already from the leaders. we will give you the thoughts of theresa may as she went into the building this afternoon. i thought we did have theresa may but we don‘t. i‘ll tell you what, let‘s listen to the european commission chief negotiator, michelle bernier, who spent so much time in this process. “— who spent so much time in this process. —— michelle barnier. he has been telling us about the implications of the negotiation. let‘s hear what michel barnier, the eu‘s chief brexit negotiator, had to say earlier today. the short extension of the departure dealfor the uk, chosen by the uk, such an extension should be conditional on a positive vote next week in the house of commons. we have done our best. we have done our best, and now the solution is in london.
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so far the prime minister has had two bilateral meetings with european leaders, she has met donald tusk and the irish taoiseach lee over at car. there was supposed to be a summit with a summit with emmanuel macron and that could prove to be the most important of the day, given the hard—line position the french president has taken. the meeting has not yet taken place but it is due later this evening. this was his thoughts when he went in to listen to theresa may. i‘m not here to command any of the political system. i‘m just here to say we do respect the vote of the british people. we do respect what the prime minister and the parliament are making, but we have to be clear. we can agree on an extension if this is a technical extension in the case of a yes vote on the agreement we negotiated during two years. in the case of a no vote or a no directly, it will guide everybody to a no dealfor sure. this is it. i have no other...no other comment at this stage.
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the french president speaks very good english but there has been some debate over what he actually meant in those comments he made to the british press this afternoon. what i think he is saying, while trying to put the onus on the house of commons, is that if there is no agreement on any plan next week, then no deal is the obvious default position. that is what the european union would prepare for. but i think in the french comments he gave, he suggested if there was a move, if some of those red lines theresa may has set down were changed, then of course european leaders when they gather here as we expect them to do next thursday, they would be prepared to consider that and maybe they would have a longer extension in the offing. but the draft conclusions at the moment made no
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mention of that longer extension. let‘s hear the thoughts of the german chancellor... and german chancellor, angela merkel, appealed for calm and said every effort should be made to ensure britain leaves the eu in an orderly manner. sometimes these two main characters in europe play good cop bad cop. translation: i think you and i, we all must be aware that we are dealing with something of historical importance, and therefore we must also tread carefully, and above all do everything possible to the last hour to ensure that there may be an orderly exit for the uk from the eu. that means that we have to consider the interests of all sides, including those of the british, and so the discussion today with the british prime minister is, of course, very important because she can tell us how she sees things from her perspective, and then we in turn will formulate ourjudgment.
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angela merkel speaking earlier. we can get more on this now with the journalist stefanie bolzen from germany‘s die welt, whojoins me now. have you filed? already twice today. so you are good to go for the press conference. what did you make of the d raft conference. what did you make of the draft conclusions? what do they tell us? they tell us the european union and the eu 27 are trying to keep the pressure up. it is interesting to compare comments by the french president and german chancellor, as you said, bad guy and good guy, but i think they are shifting the town. the german chancellor for the first time release said no deal is now at risk, and while germany is wanting to accommodate, she also said this is an historic event and we must be aware, but she sees it is becoming difficult. an interesting choice of phrase, historic event. she knows people will look back on this moment. is she saying that as much to the british side as to the other european leaders? whereas of course there is impatience and exasperation with the uk side. perhaps brexit
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fatigue. yes, but i think she is really very much aware of the historical context we are in and to see it from a german perspective, for germany britain is an important country with historical and economic ties, and some from the german delegation yesterday said we are now at the start of a new relationship and we should not start that with a crash. they want a positive outcome but as i say this is not up to the eu 27 it is to be dotes is decided in london. she makes no mention of a longer extension and i‘m sure you spotted that. does that mean we can rule it out? as i was saying, i don‘t think emmanuel macron has ruled it out. i think from the legal advice that coming also from the german bundestag but also the commission yesterday, it says an extension beyond the european election until june and 30th is legally difficult and the european union do not want to cause to themselves more
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difficulties by giving the uk more time, because this would mean that maybe the european constitution of the eu parliament might be in question. to have been some easy answers with donald tusk providing a shorter extension. they must know if the comeback your next thursday with no resolution in the house of commons, they will have some much tougher questions to answer. yes, they do, but i look forward to seeing the conclusion tonight, what they say about that. the donald tusk did not say anything might happen if the houses of commons reject the deal at the time. i think this is to keep the pressure up. at the same time, there are rumours saying, actually, the europeans are now quite prepared for a no—deal so anything is possible. is there a concern in the room that evenif is there a concern in the room that even if there is an indicative vote this week on perhaps an alternative plan to the deal by theresa may, somebody has to carry this across the line? it is notjust enough to get the vote, you must have the legislation. is the prime minister
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or even her successor who is committed to brexit even going to carry an alternative deal across the line? there was an idea weeks already ago that europeans themselves suggested you should have an that house of commons in britain should have an indicative vote but will there be a majority for anything? there might bea majority for anything? there might be a slight majority, a small majority for the deal as such, so we had jeremy corbyn here today who said, i will negotiate a no deal, but i think the trust of the europeans is now quite low and they do not expect so much anymore. again, what that means for next week is more decided in london then it will be here. 0k, will be here. ok, stefanie bolzen, thank you. it is interesting what stefanie says about sensitivities about discussing about sensitivities about discussing a longer extension. obviously all the focus at the moment puts pressure on the house of commons, but interesting today the draft conclusions which are normally e—mailed and wired to each delegation, they were delivered in
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envelopes in paper format. delegation, they were delivered in envelopes in paperformat. that is so there were no leaks, such as the sensitivity at the moment. we take a pause now and reflect on what it is the uk site has actually asked for and what the eu is actually saying about it. earlier i spoke to our reality check correspondent chris morris to talk us through what could happen next. ok, so we know and we‘ve known for some time that brexit was supposed to happen next friday, a week tomorrow, the 29th of march. the prime minister was asking for a three—month delay, an extension untiljune 30 of the article 50 period. the other thing she‘s going to ask for, incidentally, is that the additional documents that came out about ten days ago, you may remember the legal reassurance about the fact that the irish backstop was only ever going to be temporary — she wants the european council to formally approve those, so then she can go back to the house of commons, she hopes, and say, look, mr speaker, it‘s a slightly different deal now. this has been formally approved by the european council. and she can have that third
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meaningful vote, because what she wants to do with an extended article 50 period is, first of all, get her deal approved in the house of commons, the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration, and then turn that withdrawal agreement into uk law. in terms of what the eu said about it, well, it‘s been coming in for the last couple of days, now, hasn‘t it? we know donald tusk has said yes, a short agreement...a short extension is technically possible, but we want you first to pass another meaningful vote. and then, of couse, we‘ve got the issue of the european elections. we heard from jean—claude junker, the commission president, yesterday, saying past the 22nd of may would be difficult. we now have today the european parliament president saying, april 18th. and i think a lot of people are going to think, what, two and a bit weeks? that‘s hardly worth it. but there are a variety of opinions in there, and they‘ve got a lot of talking to do once they‘ve heard from the prime minister herself. so talk a little bit about what will go on in the round when they get together. i talked about draft conclusions, which have been effectively posted to them today in envelopes. yeah, no leaks. no leaks. that presumably will be adapted and amended through the day.
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do they have to come to a unanimous decision on that date? so it is important to remember that we‘ve heard from donald tusk and we‘ve heard from jean—claude junker, but it‘s the heads of state in government that have to actually agree this. they could set conditions of their own. a different date thanjune 30th. certainly, as we‘ve said, there are other dates going around, but, yes, all 27 of them have to agree. so all 28 countries including the uk have to agree to an extension. you can‘t have one dissenter. so that‘s one issue. but then, obviously, the first thing the rest of the eu wants is to see that third meaningful vote next week in the house of commons. if that were to pass, a pretty big if at the moment, then there would also have to be a debate on that meaningful vote in the house of lords, but then you could move into this short extension, however long that may prove to be, to dot the 1‘s and cross the t‘s and pass it into law. but as we know, as we‘ve discussed many times, the numbers still don‘t look great for the government when you look at the configuration
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of the house of commons. no, and precisely, i mean, they must read the newspapers and see the debate that‘s ongoing in the united kingdom. so, although they‘ll talk about this short extension today, you would presume that in the course of three hours, they must be going through all the options. what happens if the deal goes down next week? what happens if there are indicative votes? is a second referendum and a general election on the table? all those options will be discussed. yeah, i mean, first thing to say, and we‘ve said this before but it is important to emphasise, if the meaningful vote does not pass next week, the default option is still that we leave on the 29th of march, in law, and if there is no deal, we leave with no deal. so that‘s the default option. now, at the moment, emmanuel macron is suggesting, well, if you don‘t pass the vote, that‘s where we‘re heading. the key question — would he say the same thing in a week‘s time? or would he, however reluctantly, get behind the idea that other people are pushing, not enthusiastically perhaps, but at least suggesting is worthy of debate, a longer delay — a much longer extension
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of article 50. we know it‘s something that theresa may has said she would not be prepared to do as prime minister, but if it was the only offer on the table, well, where would we be, then, with the politics? we‘d have to see if the house of commons had come up with some sort of agreement on a different sort of brexit, perhaps a softer version of brexit, or of course, you go into some of the other options you‘ve suggested. could you head towards another election? a referendum, putting the whole deal back to the people? we know there‘s going to be a big people‘s vote march in london on saturday. finally, of course, the nuclear option, you revoke article 50, you take it off the table, and that means brexit would not happen and the uk would stay in the european union on the same terms that it has now. just your thoughts, though, talking to people in the room, do you get the impression that they‘re concerned with the way she has turned the debate in the last 24 hours? because we‘ve gone from, look, guys, this could be no brexit, to actually no deal is now
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a very real possibility. i think there‘s a large chunk of expect the unexpected, cos that‘s what they‘ve got used to over the last few months. but there is weariness. yes, i think there‘ll be some concern if there‘s a suggestion that she‘s now tacking towards this threat of no deal, but, then again, you could argue that many other eu leaders are also saying, if you don‘t pass this deal next week, however bad the numbers look, then no deal is perhaps the most likely next option. as i say, i think the key thing is, if we get to that point in a week‘s time, if we are standing here, which we might be, another emergency eu summit on thursday of next week, will emmanuel macron, for example, still be saying, you‘re guiding us towards no deal? or will other things emerge once they realise, if that happens, that a meaningful vote for a third time cannot get through the house of commons? yes, we could be in a very different position come next thursday. indeed
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in the draft conclusions i was telling you about there was a line saying while all this negotiation is going on we need to keep planning for the no deal scenario. it is interesting we are starting to see plans emerging across uk departments over the last few days. we have seen the foreign & commonwealth office set up their special operations room to deal with brits who are overseas. details today from our defence correspondent in the last few minutes about a plan... sorry. a plan from our defence correspondent who talks of a plan within the ministry of defence saying that they have an operation now in the bunker of the ministry of defence. we don‘t know whether it‘s up and running but we think it may well be. it‘s part of this operation yellowhammer, what the government has said will respond to the no deal scenario. no deal preparations, we are told, could be
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triggered on monday. i don‘t know if that has yet been confirmed by the government but ifjonathan‘s reporting stacks up, the ministry of defence is making preparations it would need to do to support mod installations and services overseas, and forces overseas. they also said they have put in place three 3500 troops overseas to support contingency planning and some troops would be available to other departments. notjust in the defence ministry but you will also start to see that across all other government departments over the course of the next week as they step up those no deal contingency plans. let‘s talk now to professor of european law at the university of cambridge, kenneth armstrong. there is a lot to look through, isn‘t there, legally? professor armstrong, good to have you with us. we talk first of all about the extension itself, because of course
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the date the 29th of march is set down in law and to change that there has to be some more law. how will that work next week and unfold? there are two different levels to look at for this. the first thing is if the eu 27 itself to agree an extension to the end of... to make the 22nd, if that happens, then the uk domestic law, ministers would need to present to parliament a regulation to change the exit day itself, so that will itself take a day to do. i think we could be looking at next thursday, an emergency council, agreeing a specific date for an extension and then perhaps on friday parliament having on the 29th of march to set a new exit today. it's new exit today. it‘s worth saying, isn‘t it, that if parliament was to get round another plan, if they vote theresa may‘s deal down and have indicative votes and say common market number two or
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norway plus as it‘s known is one of the options that the parliament is prepared to support, that could be added to the withdrawal agreement quite easily, couldn‘t it? that is not so much any withdrawal agreement but it would be to the political declaration and i think everybody on the eu site has been clear that... and michel barnier said this in brussels on tuesday, if the uk house of commons wants to have a different version of brexit, that could be reflected in any new political declaration relatively easily. now, firstly we need to know what the consensus would actually really look like but in principle it would be possible that an emergency summit next thursday for a revision to the political declaration to reflect perhaps a more open version ofa reflect perhaps a more open version of a future relationship that was different from the one that the government has currently been pursuing.
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in this draft conclusion we have been given here we have been told the uk has indicated it doesn‘t want to ta ke the uk has indicated it doesn‘t want to take part in the european elections. if there was a change of heart and we‘ve gone past 18th of april, which seems to be the natural cut—off date, is there a legal route open for the uk to take part in those elections? if the united kingdom is still a member state of the european union on the dates of the european elections taking place, it would be bound to hold those elections. in a sense, the longer the extension, the easier it is, because the uk simply remains a member state of the european union with the same rights and obligations as it currently has. so my view has always been that if the uk is on the dates of the elections and eu member state, those elections and eu member state, those elections will take place. now, maybe the mps from the uk would not sit in the european parliament for terribly long if, in fact, the uk
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then ended up leaving some months later, but if there are selections to be held, i think they have to be held. and just a word about an alternative plan... lets say for instance there was a vote supporting common market number two. obviously there would have to be legislation with that. i think part of the concern within the european council is that someone has to drive that. it is the executive that puts forward legislation. i can‘t see a scenario where theresa may would be prepared to do that because it‘s not a plan she supports. maybe her successor would be more of a brexiteer so is there a danger that the parliament passes a vote and indicates what it would like but we don‘t get the legislation through? one thing to say is that when mps have been presented with an alternative approach to brexit, with the labour amendments from the labour front bench, they have been defeated within the commons, so it‘s not actually obvious that the idea ofa not actually obvious that the idea
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of a norway plus or common market number2.0 of a norway plus or common market number 2.0 actually has majority support in the commons as things stand. things could of course change but i think what you are hinting at is really that if we were to have a different form of brexit, we probably would be talking about a different government. i think monday and tuesday of next week will really tell us whether we are going to have a brexit delivered on the terms negotiated by theresa may in her government or whether in fact we are moving to a much longer extension with a different form of brexit being pursued by a different government. fascinating to get that detail on the legal aspects to some of this. kenneth armstrong, thank you. just to confirm, we have had it confirmed in the last few minutes that theresa may will give a press conference and statement this evening here in brussels. it is likely to come after donald tusk and jean—claude juncker have given their thoughts. any time
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in the next hour. i thought it was unlikely that she wouldn‘t speak tonight because obviously she wouldn‘t want all the news to be dominated by the european council. she will want to put her side of what has been discussed as well to the uk press, so we will get theresa may‘s thoughts on what was discussed in that meeting a little later this evening. now we cross to westminster to speak to nick eardley, who has been following some of the reaction today. some stern words from the speaker of the house today, nick, about the way mps are being treated by some members of the public. yes, there is a sense i think of some angerfrom yes, there is a sense i think of some anger from many mps on the opposition benches about the way that the prime minister portrayed the debate last night. they are annoyed that she has, they believe, put it as her versus parliament on delivering brexit. obviously not something, not an opinion they share. the speaker of the house of
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commons said earlier to mps that you are not traitors. that came in response to some comments passed about on social media over the past 24 hours or so. there has also been a letter gone out from the deputy speaker of the commons, warning mps that next week and over the next few days they shouldn‘t travel alone and they should perhaps take taxis to avoid travelling in public. they have been seeing regional police forces as well as the met have been made aware of some tensions around politics. why? for the simple reason he says he has never seen westminster as tense as it is just now, as this brexit debate reaches its crescendo. and some of the blame for that laid out the door of the prime minister that this idea parliament is somehow the enemy of the people and the decision they have taken... they feel she is stocking this anger? if this letter was not response to the statement last night, it came out yesterday afternoon, although we
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heard most of it today. there is considerable anger in parliament about what the implications of what theresa may said yesterday. downing street insisted this is nothing to do with mps‘ safety and they reject the idea that they have indications for that. i have spent most of the afternoon in the house of commons, and i‘ve lost count quite frankly of the number of mps from the labour benches and the lib dem benches and the snp as well, saying they think the snp as well, saying they think the prime minister said last night deeply irresponsible things and some of them frankly are slightly worried that it will increase some of the tension and some of the rhetoric and potentially some of the abuse they get on social media or in some of the more extreme cases we‘ve seen in person as well. nick eardley, in westminster. thank you very much. there is more to come here in brussels. we will get that press co nfe re nce here in brussels. we will get that press conference from theresa may and the thoughts of the european
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leaders as they come out of the room. first up will be donald tusk and jean—claude juncker. i am room. first up will be donald tusk and jean—claudejuncker. i am here through the evening to bring you all the reaction to that. before we get to that, let‘s get some whether. thank you very much. good evening to you and it has been a mild day wherever you are across the uk. we have had quite a lot of cloud and although we have seen some sunshine, temperatures have responded up around 17 celsius, higher in places and a beautiful day across north—east scotland. it has not been like that everywhere. you see cloud, a lot of it, which we stick with through this evening and through tonight, the odd spot of drizzle and misty and murky conditions and turning windy across the north west. temperatures eight up to 10 celsius, a mild night. a mild start tomorrow under windy start across the north of the uk and seeing gusts of 50 up to 60 mph, may be strongerfor of the uk and seeing gusts of 50 up to 60 mph, may be stronger for the northern and western isles of scotland. wet and windy weather sinking southwards through the day
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across scotland and northern ireland. for england and wales looking largely dry but predominantly cloudy. best chance of centring to the south of the m4, southern counties of england. temperatures out of the rain band ready mild. behind it, turning cooler and fresher. and cooler is the theme for the weekend. some cool days and rather chilly nights with a touch of frost at times. there will be some blustery showers across northern parts of the uk, particularly the far north of scotland, some showers wintry, but amongst all of that we will see some sunshine. that‘s all for me from now.
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