but you remember being h and it's it is about an attachment issue. so feeling right? —— being age four. what would be the right way for a university to deal with an alleged stalker? having somebody name that it was stalking was very powerful hello. and it not feeling right?” it's monday. for claire, and it is the start of it's 10 o'clock. feeling right? —— being age four. and it not feeling right? i used to tell my friends when i was four that i'm victoria derbyshire. national stalking awareness week i was tell my friends when i was four that iwasa tell my friends when i was four that i was a boy. i had friends that did not bat an eyelid because they knew today, so we always say please name good morning. the toughest regulation of the internet in the it. many of them think it is a world. that is what the government what i was like. it was when i was celebrity issue. and then i would is proposing today. new powers for six or seven, i was in infant school expect them to have somebody who is the regulator to shut down entire andi six or seven, i was in infant school and i actually told some of my trained, to talk to claire, and also websites and big personalfines friends the same thing, i was meant to talk to the stalker. two the regulator to shut down entire websites and big personal fines were to bea friends the same thing, i was meant to be a boy and i was overheard by tech bosses. one british woman, behaviours make it a crime in this laleh shahravesh, is facing jail in some people in the playground. and country. it is a serious crime and dubai for comments she wrote on kids can be cruel, so i was that individual should be treated as overheard and straightaway they said facebook. the culture secretary a serious crime and the police tells us exclusively it should be up i was overheard and straightaway they said iwasa should be called in and they should overheard and straightaway they said i was a lesbian, but i didn't know to individual countries to decide what a lesbian was. ijust remember be held to account for their how to regulate what is on the behaviour and claire should be being six, seven at the most, and wanting the ground to swallow me up, signposted to the national stalking intranet. helpline so she can get the help that she requires. i don't make the laws in the uae. basically. and when you got to i do hope to legislate for them here. puberty as a young teenager, 13 or there is a concern that people have expressed that what we might do so, what was that like for you? that here would encourage people elsewhere to go much is when things started to change further and to do things of which we would not approve, physically, and that was stuff that but i think it's important i was not happy with. i never felt

that we act as we believe it's appropriate to act. co mforta ble i was not happy with. i never felt comfortable in my body. i didn't like what was changing. even from what do you think of the proposed new powers? well they work and what those ages, i tried to suppress about free speech? things that were changing and try we've got people here and hide with clothing and stuff, who've been affected by harmful content online, he turned up unannounced just before charities, and representatives but it got to a point when i had to of tech firms. let us know what you think too. she took her own life, which is not a coincidence. it is notjust the nate ethan watson is thought to be conform. so you went out with boys? the uk's first openly trans grime yes. i think it was the social psychological harm, unlike a rapper. he is nine months into burglary which is acute, it is not pressure, the school pressure. it just the drip drip drip, but it can transitioning from female to male. lead to serious harm and murder. he has given us permission to use thank you for coming on the this clip when he was, as he puts it, female. wasn't right for me to say and programme. today marks the start of people did not understand that. from how i felt at that point i knew i the ultra low emission zone in should never speak about it again. london. cards will now pay £12.50 on just continue dry to live as a nate is here to talk about his fears that some artists female because anything else was top of the existing congestion won't now want to work with him. impossible. to be fair, victoria, i charge. buses, coaches and lorries think i thought at one point there which don't meet the standards now was something wrong with me. did be charged £100 a day to drive and stalking at university. we have in the centre of london. seen data that shows there were 400 you? yeah, i thought i wasn't this runs 24 hours a day, reports of stalking and domestic abuse that britain's universities in supposed to be feeling like this. just three years, but over half of seven days a week, and the mayor's

those accused were allowed to stay but my mind was not connected with on at the university. this woman was stalked by two fellow students. that. actually you were 26, 27 when i had to be on edge at all times. i was being watched at all he realised what was going on. you let's speak to deborah skinner times and it was just who runs a coach company in surrey, came out to your family. what was so creepy, the staring. that like. i think i knew what was katie nield, a clean air lawyer. because it wasn't the first sophie power, former ceo incident of stalking. going on. i was suppressing it. of a start—up that makes technology there was another person using things to block it out. i had at the same time online. to remove pollution. itjust felt like i was not nana jones darko, who runs trim—it, a mobile barber shop athletics before my music. i was which is going to have to change their original business plan because of the safe anywhere i was. competing for the country. i blogged ultra—low emissions zone. anything else out. as soon as i got how will it affect your business?m we go north out of our yard, we are hello. injured and went into music it was in the zone. going south is fine. welcome to the programme. another focus for me not to think we're live until 11 this morning. and it will cost £100 per day per about anything bothering me. i vehicle and we have a fleet of 12 we're going to be talking about the new ultra low emissions couldn't fit into this persona that vehicles, and most days they go zone which starts in london this morning. i had built. yes, ispoke to family north. what are you going to do? we other cities in the uk are also considering introducing similar schemes which means the most and friends. i told them how i was are hoping for a retrofit solution polluting vehicles have to pay more. coach drivers may have to pay £100 which is currently not available. that is a system to fit the existing a day to drive in the capital. feeling. a lot of people were coaches to make them comply, so let us know your reaction to that. if you are getting in touch, you are supportive. a lot of people around very welcome. if you are emailing fitting a diesel filter with me. like this make sense to be fair. and you would like to take part in my me. like this make sense to be fair. my family was really supportive, took that long for me to come out, i technology. but it is not available? the programme, please include your was a bit scared of how my family we phone number in the message and if what are you going to do? we are

you text you will be charged at the ta ke was a bit scared of how my family we take it. not so much that i would standard network rate. first of the not have support but i was scared of hoping they will bring the systems news with a look iraq. thank you. the embarrassment. for me, maybe for on board and people are working on them as well, if this comes out in it. what do you think of this move? them as well, if this comes out in the open, i was scared what they was it is an essential first step from going to but in the world of the mayor. london is filthy and it proposals being considered by the crime you have worries, fears, is harming people's help and we have people will not want to work with known that for a long time. it is government include holding managers you because you are, as far as we still at illegal levels ten years personally responsible for websites after the legal limits came into are aware, the first openly trans failing to tackle terrorist grime rapper. it seems like that's force, which is why it is taking propaganda, child abuse and material promoting self—harm. the plans also what it is. i haven't met a lot of this bold and essential step to suggest setting up an independent people, but i have worked with a lot clean up people's help. as a regulator to hold internet companies legally to account. of people, especially grime, that's business person do you understand where i get booked for performing. the motivation for this even though it will affect your business as it seems to me reasonable at least well? i wholeheartedly agree with to consider whether individual but yes, i transitioned, i spoke to director sitting at the top of these it. however it comes down to a few people, artists, that have had organisations should be asked to a few people, artists, that have had a lot of connections throughout my business at the same time. it is ta ke organisations should be asked to take responsibility for what their career and i've had support from going to affect our business a lot, companies are oi’ are them. it was a bit of a shock from take responsibility for what their companies are or are not doing. in so we going to affect our business a lot, so we have been pushed out of the the end it will be up to the some of them because they did not regulator to do that and what we are city due to the charge. i don't know me that closely to know that's consulting on has given the how i was feeling. all they saw was regulator the broadest range of think there is any support for small options so they can act as they see businesses to help us grow or help the female, the persona. as i fit. it is not brexit talks between started to break it down and let us manoeuvre pa rt the conservatives and labour could them know how i was feeling, i had businesses to help us grow or help continue later. they fail to reach us manoeuvre part of the charge, or

support from them. i think a couple any discounts for us and i think an agreement last week after three they should be. even though air of them said it might be hard for days of meetings. the prime minister them to not misgender me and refer said both parties will need to pollution is killing people?m compromise if there is to be a deal. they should be. even though air pollution is killing people? it is killing people which is why i said to me is the person they knew me as mrs may is due at an emergency that i do agree with us having this. but i understand that because i know but i think there should be other summit in brussels on wednesday when there's a lot of educating still eu leaders will expect to hear fresh ways to help us bypass or give us needs to be done. but in that sort the solutions to help us comply and plans. a british woman is facing a of pretty masculine world of crime, that would help us with driving possible two year jail sentence plans. a british woman is facing a possible two yearjail sentence in imean, of pretty masculine world of crime, i mean, there are women coming businesses as well as saving lives. dubai after allegedly breaking the through but you would agree, it's pretty masculine. there's very you have got solutions but they cost state's cybercrime laws with money presumably? yes, we created facebook posts she wrote while in little representation of gay people, the uk. laleh shahravesh was trans people. yes, definitely. i the technology to clean the polluted arrested while visiting dubai with air. we have an air bubble that goes her teenage daughter last month. she think i'd done my own little inside the car. but actually, as had posted critical comments about her ex—husband's new wife three research before i started coming out yea rs her ex—husband's new wife three ellie said, there is no vision of a years ago. ministers should consider and being really open about it to future where we have clean hair with banning the use of 56 technology ca rs future where we have clean hair with cars on the road, but actually 50% made by huawei in westminster and see if there was anyone else who is of the nitrogen dioxide emissions in central london are not from other sensitive areas according to a vehicles. we have got the new zone, which might reduce it by 15%, but government cybersecurity official. the technical director of the there are areas where people are national side at centre told breathing air three times that. we transgender who was in the sick. i've never really had anyone to need to know where the msm is also panorama that shoddy engineering follow and look up to as a coming from. half of them are from makes the firm's products are more transgender musician, i was seeking likely to be vulnerable to attack. that out to see what the best way to industry so had we tackled those as

do this was but i didn't find anyone out there from the uk. i found a few well as vehicles? and is that the huawei said they will reveal plans tech that is going to do that? this to tackle the problem. a new scheme artists in america but are transgender but artists in america but are is an air bubble and it sits behind tra nsgender but it artists in america but are transgender but it still wasn't what i could relate to. seeing the music, that i do, but there might be a passenger headrest and it cleans someone that i do, but there might be someone watching, there's a possibility you transition because it isa possibility you transition because it is a masculine world and you might be more successful. definitely to tackle the problem. a new scheme not. crime wasn't around when i was the air inside the car but really we to help people endanger who cannot speak is launched today. the silent four years old. definitely not. how shouldn't be driving our cars in the first place. we can't deny that the do you feel about being the first air needs to be cleaner. but you system instructs a 999 call who was don't want to be the one penalised too scared to make a noise or speak openly trans grime rapper.” too scared to make a noise or speak to press 55 when prompted to tell to make that happen? yes. there are do you feel about being the first openly trans grime rapper. i have come to accepting it. growing up i the police that they are in a did not accept it myself, that's why no retrofit solutions so that makes genuine emergency. around 20,000 i blocked out a lot of things. i had it very difficult for our industry. a lot of internal hate towards and trucks as well. there are two silent 999 calls are made every day. myself as well. now i've come to a big scheme to lower pollution in retrofit solutions for two chassis terms, i've accepted it, gone engine combinations at the moment through a psychological assessment, city centre starts today with the they literally dig into your life, for coaches. there are more planned ultra low emissions zone in london. and coming along. full tracks there it isa ultra low emissions zone in london. it is a world first and under the they literally dig into your life, the root of everything. i've come to is nothing at all. do you have new rules drivers with the most accept a lot and i know i am polluting vehicles will be charged to drive into the city centre. there transgender. if that's what i have sympathy for businesses? absolutely to go out there and represent, or i are plans to introduce the scheme in but it is tough. it is great that can go out and represent, i am happy cities across england. the mayor of london, said it can't, said it was with that. make an e—mail says you the mayor has introduced a scrappage important to make progress in are an inspiration. thank you. your scheme alongside the ultra low tackling the capital's toxic. —— emissions zone but national strength gives others hope, don't government needs to step up and do

let hate speech challenge your more. it needs to help businesses sadiq khan. what is cuter than one talent. thank you for coming on the like deborah and anna's make clean great dane puppy? i7 puppies in one programme. thank you. single letter! clio delivered 19 choices. there is no scrappage scheme for trucks and coaches. this pups by method: there seems to be a money single letter! clio delivered 19 pups by cesarean section and all making scam for the mayor of london that two survived. in three weeks' data obtained by the website broadly and a new tax on londoners and time they will weigh more than 20 shows that there were 381 incidents businesses and i hope all the money where students had reported other students about their behaviour. goes to subsidising electric it also showed that 51% of students vehicles for all. where will the lbs, and a full—grown male can weigh who had been accused 14 stone. there's other headlines so were allowed to remain money vehicles for all. where will the at the university they attended. money go? a lot of the money goes now, an anti—stalking charity into operating the scheme which back to victoria. dogs on the news, is calling on the government costs a lot to process. if you find to create a stalker‘s register and for all universities to follow we can't get enough! good morning. a set of standards to ensure some and £40, it costs that to do is it possible to regulate the students are protected. i've been talking to claire, it. -- if intranet? the government is publishing plan today which it not her real name. some and £40, it costs that to do it. —— if you find someone £40. the claims will make the uk the safest she's experienced stalking both money should maybe go into educating place in the world to be online. it people about exposure. we should be online and offline at university... comes place in the world to be online. it co m es after place in the world to be online. it comes after the high—profile case of looking at the health effects and molly russell, the 14—year—old who how people can avoid pollution which took her own life in 2017. when her also laura richard — might have a bigger impact than founder of paladin, an anti—stalking charity reducing it in the first place. family looked into her instagram and sirin kale the reporter at broadly who got the story. martin says it cost a fortune to go account, they found distressing claire began by telling material about depression and me how the stalking to lunch on the train with the first started. family and it costs less to drive. suicide. the government says it will that will mean day trips elsewhere create an independent regulator paid so someone for by tech companies to tackle the they dry to tell me they knew a that will mean day trips elsewhere so someone else gets the pollution. friend of mine who had passed. and but as we said in the introduction,

spread of terrorist propaganda, plenty of other cities are considering it. thank you for coming content that encourages suicide and cyber bullying. the regulator would they told me, they were really on the programme and thank you for struggling with his death and all of your time. bbc newsroom live is be able to issue fines or even block the staff and then eventually it became clear, in a few days it websites that break the rules. the became clear, in a few days it became clear, in a few days it became clear they did not know my next. thank you for your company laws would apply notjust to social friend and they were just lying and today. we are back tomorrow at ten media but to discussion forums, i stayed away from them. but then they kept showing up, every four i o'clock. search engines and messaging services. the government is also was. they would stare and it started looking at whether bosses at tech companies should personally be liable if their firms very gradually. i'm talking every companies should personally be liable if theirfirms breach companies should personally be liable if their firms breach the new two weeks. and then the next year, duty of care. the culture secretary, jeremy wright, has told this the next academic year, they were programme that it is right for every there just of the time. they were country to have its own laws to there just of the time. they were good morning. we have got some warm there in the rain that i studied in, they would try and sit next to me as regulate the internet. that is sunshine developing across a good often as they could. and whenever pa rt sunshine developing across a good despite the news today that one part of the uk at the moment. this british woman called laleh they did sit next to me they would is the scene at the moment in turn and stare right at me. it was a shahravesh is facing two years in northern parts of staffordshire. some lovely sunshine here. but it is jail in dubai because she insulted her ex—husband's new wife on fellow student. fellow student. man or woman? man. what not sunny everywhere. we have rain fellow student. fellow student. man orwoman? man. what did it make facebook. i think we can play you fellow student. fellow student. man or woman? man. what did it make you feel like? it made me feel like i had to be an age the same i had to in the midlands and through wales. the interview with the culture some showers in the south—west of secretary now. i asked him if england. this band of showery rain

today's proposals mean will break up and the showers will self—regulation has failed. be on edge the whole time. just be few and far between. but they will turn heavy and thundery in the today's proposals mean self—regulation has failedlj believe the era of self—regulation must now come to an end and of afternoon. sunshine elsewhere. watching, staring. it wasn't the warmer away from the north sea coast course it is notjust my view. i first incident of stalking, there was another person online, the same think that is being accepted where temperatures will struggle. time. it felt i wasn't safe nine or10 anywhere, it had to be looking over where temperatures will struggle. nine or 10 degrees but up to 19 in increasingly among the online my shoulder. did you recognise this companies themselves. i think it is is talking at the time? no, because the home counties and east anglia. appropriate for government to act and we are setting out today in the it was a gradual, ijust overnight at the showers continue in white paper how that might be done. is talking at the time? no, because it was a gradual, i just thought this guy is a bit of a creep. but that zone from wales to the south—east of england with thenit this guy is a bit of a creep. but then it was every day. then it was temperatures staying up at seven or steering so much. my friends with 9 degrees. further north, varying can you explain how tech companies notice and multiple friends with amounts of cloud with temperatures like facebook and others would notice and multiple friends with notice every time, why is this guy staring at you? and it wasn't remove harmful content like child down to four. northern areas on tuesday will have a fine leather sexual images and terrorist content, actually until i reported it to with sunshine but cooler. chili for when these platforms work across campus security about a year later geographical boundaries? yes, they and they use the word stalking. and southern areas but there will be do do that and the first thing to i was like, i guess it is stalking. cloud and further showers here. set out is that we think it is goodbye for now. what did they do? they contacted, i appropriate to impose upon online companies a duty of care to keep their as is as safe as they reasonably can. that is something can remember, there is someone in the university that deals with this thatis reasonably can. that is something that is comparable to other duties and they contacted the students department and they said to him he of care is that exist in other walks wasn't allowed to make verbal or of care is that exist in other walks physical contact with me and he of life. it is also important that if online companies don't do what wasn't allowed to be in the same room as me. and that worked, i would you're watching bbc newsroom live.

they should that there is a regulator to hold them to account and so we also need an independent say. i saw him very, very rarely it's 11 o'clock, and these regulator with the powers to do are the main stories this morning. that, both the powers to demand tech companies could be fined transparency from the online companies and understand what is after that. does it still affect going on, but also to impose or blocked if they fail you? has there been a lasting penalties if the regulator thinks impact, would you say? yes, i don't thatis penalties if the regulator thinks trust people now. i don't trust to protect children. that is appropriate. those are people are being kind to be kind. i campaigners say the plans would make penalties that we will need, as you britain a world pioneer. say, to be applicable to companies five days before the uk is due think, you know, there's a good that might not be solely based in chance they are trying to take advantage or you know, if someone speaks ina to leave the eu without a deal, this country. the regulator would advantage or you know, if someone speaks in a certain way, like he did,i speaks in a certain way, like he have the power, for example, to shut did, ijust think, ok, this guy is a creep and i will never talk to them labour say they are still waiting to down facebook in the uk? in the hear about more talks with the government to try to break the again. i think they must be a creep latest extreme of circumstances but deadlock. at the moment we haven't seen a we are consulting on is an option as well. and yet, i think, it's made deadlock. at the moment we haven't seen a change of position from the me realise this world is not a safe government. if there is a change of that would enable internet providers place. talk through what you found position, we need to consider that, out that the freedom of information we will consider it. so we will have to block particular sites and applications. i think we would not to see what happens today. you can't get to that point, the regulator would not get to that point, without go into any of those discussions with big red lines, because having excluded a number of other request. i put on freedom of otherwise there is no point in options first. to be clear to our having them, but we are very clear about the type of brexit that we audience, i appreciate that is in information request to every university in the uk, 136 in total. want. the most extreme circumstances and and it came back 381 students had you would give them other chances reported fellow students were stocking or domestic abuse in the la st stocking or domestic abuse in the last three years. and quite first, but that means that bt, sky, shockingly, timmy, 51% of alleged perpetrators were allowed to stay at university. another thing i found

talktalk, would block access to really quite alarming, only 13% at facebook or whatever it was in this country? the important thing to say the universities we surveyed had is it would not be me, not the specific policies in place to government. it is not for the address stocking or domestic abuse. and that is very concerning to me government. it is not for the government to say what is good or bad on the intranet and that would because if there isn't even the consent many people and rightly so. policy in place that says stalking an independent regulator must make thesejudgments. if an independent regulator must make these judgments. if they are not concerned to keep their users safe, or domestic we must do something about it. criminal prosecutions for company directors who fail to do what? what would they have to have done to be prosecuted? we want to consider whether the liability should be criminal or civil but what we are asking companies to do is take responsibility for the systems they have in place to make sure they are doing everything they can to keep users safe. it is not the case, i think, that if a single piece of harmful content reaches a single user that will automatically be a duty of care breach. it is up to the regulator to decide whether the systems in place are robust or not.

if they are not, it seems to me reasonable at least to consider whether individual directors who sit at the top of these organisations shouldn't be asked to take responsibility for what they companies are 01’ are responsibility for what they companies are or are not doing. in the end it will be for the regulator to decide that. what we are consulting on is giving the regulator the broadest range of options so they can act in a way they think fit. i appreciate it is a consultation, but fines could be 4% of global turnover. so if we use facebook as an example, their most recent turnover figures were $40 billion and 4% of that is 1.6 billion. if you take as a comparator the powers that the information commission has now in relation to the data protection rules, gdpr, thatis the data protection rules, gdpr, that is exactly the parameters she works within. 4% of global turnover. we think that is a useful comparator stop they have got to be fines that make companies of this scale set up and take notice and that is what we

need to make them take their responsibilities seriously. it is worth saying that there is a lot of good work being done already by these companies but it is nowhere near enough, and even they accept that this period of self—regulation should come to an end and they must be held to account by a regulator. finally i want to ask about the case of laleh shahravesh. while in the uk, she wrote on facebook that her ex—husband's new wife was a horse, and she is now injail in dubai and she could be sentenced for up to two yea rs she could be sentenced for up to two years as a punishment for writing this and she could be fined up to 50 k under uae cybercrime laws. what do you think should happen to her?|j don't you think should happen to her?” don't make the laws in the uae. i do legislate and i hope to legislate for them here. there is a concern that people have expressed that what we might do here would encourage people to go much further elsewhere

and to do things of which we would not approve, but i believe we must act in ways which we believe are appropriate to act. hello as you describe in the uae are already in place that they have not been inspired by anything i am saying this morning. what i think we need to do in the uk is find a balance between the promotion of freedom of speech, which we believe in passionately, the protection of privacy, the fostering of elevation online, all of these things are important to the uk, but to balance all of those against the need to keep people safe against the most pernicious online harm. i think we can doa pernicious online harm. i think we can do a betterjob at striking that balance and we do at the moment. but should laleh shahravesh be subject to the uae laws? it is a matter for each country how the people subject to the laws are treated. what myjob it is to look at the laws in this country and make sure that we have struck the balance that i described andi struck the balance that i described and i think the proposals will do that. i don't believe they are an incentive to other countries to say

if the uk is behaving like this then we can behave far worse. it is a balanced package and it is designed to be such and we will hear what people have got to say about it. we will begin a period of consultation on this white paper today and people will have the chance to say what they think and i hope that people well. the culture secretary, jeremy wright. let's speak now to alex holmes from the anti—bullying charity the diana award which helped with putting the ideas for the legislation together. ged flynn is from the suicide prevention charity papyrus. vinous ali, head of policy at techuk which represents the tech industry. baroness beeban kidron obe, founder of 5rights, an organisation that exists to articulate the rights of children in the digital environment. she is also a crossbench member of the house

of lords and sits on the communications committee. domenique fragale who has experienced online abuse and whose friend killed herself after she was bullied online. daisy creswell who started a project working with young people and the police to improve online habits, and her daughter grace bagwell who has taken part in that and says she's been exposed to things she didn't want to be online. joining us from leeds is emma oliver — her son took his own life in 2017 after searching out methods of doing so online. and liam byrne, the labour spokesperson on these issues, is in our birmingham studio. let's get a quick reaction to the proposals published today. venus, you represent a multitude of tech firms, so how do you respond? this is the start of a process. the government had published their white paper. do you welcome the idea of clamping down on your members? you do? because you haven't regulated yourselves? in certain areas regulation has worked. we shouldn't forget that. they internet

foundation has done excellent work in tackling child exploitation online, and there is also the global forum on terrorist content. there is space to do more and clearly need a we new framework that in order to do that, the government needs to set clear boundaries about exactly what they want companies to tackle and how. it will be the regulator that does that. i don't think a new regulator would thank anyone for being given a blank sheet of paper to work from. the culture secretary said it is not to do with the government. how do you react to this? we have rules and cultural norms that are not being applied online and what this move does is it gets rid of the exact analogy argument. these are really big businesses with a lot of interests, and they have shareholder responsibility, they have management responsibility, they have management responsibility, and they have all sorts of corporate responsibility is that they are just simply failing to

uphold. including duty of care to users? including duty of care and if you think about what that really is, it doesn't get rid of all risk. it says you must tackle foreseeable harms. i mean, really, every business must tackle foreseeable harms. it is not appropriate to make money from a business that is not safe for its users. every business has got to do that. it is the same drugs companies, transport, the lot. would you have faith in a regulator to clamp down on some of the stuff thatis to clamp down on some of the stuff that is going on? i have got to say that is going on? i have got to say that today's move is a welcome one for papyrus. every day on our helpline we listen to young people for whom suicide is a reality and it could happen today or tomorrow. they are already isolated in their thinking and they often say to us that we can't speak about this to anybody because of the suicide to be. often their only recourse is look online. if their first hit is a

recipe site telling them how to and we nt recipe site telling them how to and went to and why too, then surely today's move towards regulation is welcome. what kind of online harm have you been exposed to, would you say? i have seen a lot of things online, think about depression and suicide definitely. things that did shock me. i think that we should do anything to try and manage what is put out online. i think it is more important because with things online, it is an open space to post whatever you want. i think it is more about teaching young children and teens and adults how to cope with what you are seeing and teaching them how to talk about it, rather than trying to get rid of it. i think it is important to address what we have already seen, before we try and abolish everything. is that afair point, try and abolish everything. is that a fair point, alex? i work with the

diana award, and what we do is bring people into the conversation. you did that with the culture secretary. what did your primary school pupils say to him? they wanted to remind him that the majority of people leave happy and safe life online and they talk about how their parents spread a lot of safe news, and young people are more likely to identify it and critical thinkers. they also talked about some of the things that could be done better. from my perspective, absolutely they should be more innovation. these companies are very good at innovating their product and they have not been very good at innovating safety and safeguarding. there is no excuse for that. i also think they do a lot of responsibility in terms of funding interventions in schools, which are a numberof them interventions in schools, which are a number of them fun, and facebook have offered every single secondary school a free ambassador programme and that is the same with 02, nspcc, google, parent internet legends,

that scheme, and it is important to recognise that they do play a part and they can do a lot more which is what we are pushing for. do you welcome these proposals today, liam byrne from the labour party? we have been calling for this for about a year now but the truth is and we shouldn't escape this that this is the least the government could do and it is late in the day so there is nothing to get into the business about stopping hate speech online. internet platforms are treated very differently to the bbc newspapers, example. they are exempt from any other laws that bite on you and what you can publish, which means you probably need different laws around hate speech, which they have done in germany. there is nothing about dark money flowing into targeted ads, which is a real worry because we now know there are foreign actors like russia trying to undermine elections with dark money flowing into targeted ads. and there is nothing about the competition regime. companies are getting bigger and bigger and more powerful because they are basically allowed to kill their competition by taking them over when they are very small. and

there is no concept of when the new regulator will come. there are 13 different regulators at the moment that touch on a different bit of the internet, which is too many and it is too complicated. it looks like the government is going to add a 14th in two to three years' time. it isa 14th in two to three years' time. it is a good first step, but there is the rest of the jigsaw puzzle to put in place. do you have any worries about freedom of speech being curtailed? no, i don't think so. this is obviously a hot topic right the way across europe at the moment. what they found in germany with their laws is that it is possible to put in place a regime that works in line with cross european protection of free speech, but nonetheless forces companies to take down hate speech when it pops up. it is no coincidence that facebook has, i think, most of their moderators in germany because they get hit by massive fines if they let hate speech like tommy robinson's videos which have come down from facebook,

but i think they are still up on youtube, you know, you get hit by tough fines if you don't take that down in germany but here frankly social media fans have been much too slow to act. what do you think of some of these proposals, anna?m slow to act. what do you think of some of these proposals, anna? it is welcome. i wanted this to happen for a long time. i still think there is a long time. i still think there is a long time. i still think there is a long way to go. it is a shame really that it has taken legislation for the internet giants to do something about it. as for freedom of speech, you know, to google how to harm yourself, i think thatjust comes under a whole different subject. nobody needs to know that on the intranet. no child needs to be able to come across that on the web. which is what your son did?

yes. it is really good for keeping people in touch, but for a child in a dark place or an adult in a dark place, the internet is not always good. for me there doesn't need to be anything on there. daniel got step—by—step instructions. why would you need that on the intranet? it is just beyond me, really. as i said on the last show, daniel died in 2017 and 206 children died that year by suicide and most of them googled it. best of them went online to find out how to do it. —— most of them. when does it stop? i welcome it but i think there is a long way to go. one thing i really want to make clear here, if the tech companies are supposedly making steps, why is it

that 61% of under 13—year—olds in this country have a social media account? they have an age limit which is 13. the verification process is not robust or fit for purpose and you just put in a different year that you were born in. i know that that is their responsibility. these are people that are going to send us to the moon as tourists, have driverless cars in cities. we really have got to think about it very differently. when other interesting things in the white paper is actually making them responsible for terms and conditions, which is something we have been fighting for at my organisation for a number of years. pa rents organisation for a number of years. parents know that their own children at the age of less than 13 put in a false age to get into websites. yes, teenagers are teenagers and they will do the opposite of what you tell them mostly. it is younger than

teenagers, yes. children do have some online safety learning at schools, but it is piecemeal and it depends on the school. the main thing for us is they don't teach the actual parents. last year i was in a position where my daughter was in year nine and i didn't know what she was doing online and i didn't know whether she was safe. we have pa rental whether she was safe. we have parental broadband control at her but she is not always at home and she can access things. at one point she can access things. at one point she said to me, mum, there is nothing i haven't seen, and i was horrified, so we started radio a show on bbc radio sussex called raising teens, and it is all about social media and devices. you need to educate the parents as well. there is a massive gap of understanding between parents and kids and that needs to be lessened. how do you respond to what has been published today? i am glad it is

happening but i just published today? i am glad it is happening but ijust wish it had come sooner. happening but ijust wish it had come sooner. as happening but ijust wish it had come sooner. as you happening but ijust wish it had come sooner. as you said earlier, i did lose my friend just under two yea rs did lose my friend just under two years ago. she did take her own life because she was severely depressed and she had a lot of anxiety and it was something i knew nothing about. i found out that she was being bullied online and a lot of messages we re bullied online and a lot of messages were being sent to her. they were encouraging her to kill herself, actually. because of that, i wish i had known. iwish actually. because of that, i wish i had known. i wish she could have spoken out to me or contacted the platforms and said this was happening, help me, what do i do. would we be expecting the regulator to track down those individual personal private messages? from the tech industry perspective, is that what will be expected? as the digital secretary said, it is about having the right processes in place and giving users the confidence that if they make a complaint they will

be listened to and action will be taken. today we will concentrate on the regulation. i think what we have heard from the audience here is just how important education is, and how important it is for young people to speak to someone they can trust, a parent. often they do feel isolated and they go online and they use these social media platform to create networks, and we shouldn't lose sight of that in this debate. various messages from people watching around the country. independent regulators for online content independent regulators for online co nte nt a re independent regulators for online content are unpredictable and they can use their power to abuse the system. plus the companies will not wa nt to system. plus the companies will not want to put money into running a service in this country which would mean having government approved social media, like china. as a young person who has grown up with the internet, i think the wild west has been controlled and censored by the older generation who don't really know what the intranet is and what they are talking about. how do you respond to that? i think that is true. they are huge companies that

the real issues are with young people who don't really understand. i don't properly understand what is going on and i think it is important to talk about how serious these issues are with younger people and allow them to understand what is going on. jerome says and facebook should be regulated and an individual should be held responsible for anything they post under local lawjust as responsible for anything they post under local law just as they would and had you should not be able to hide behind a keyboard. david: give regulators the power to censor the intranet further and that leads to totalitarianism. hiding under the keeping it safe label is shameful. and this: if, say, the uae post content that is harmful to our citizens, will the social media affairs be fined if they fail to ta ke affairs be fined if they fail to take the content down? that brings up take the content down? that brings up the issue of the british woman

who is injail in dubai. i mentioned it to the culture secretary. we could end up with a patchwork of laws around the world. is that an issue? i don't think it is such an issue. we have lots of global businesses and there are patchworks of laws and it tends to find its place. aviation does. lots of different things. as much as i condemn what has happened to this poor woman, because calling someone a horse is not abusive really... it doesn't seem to be a big deal. i think actually the secretary of state was at quite great pains to say that it is about being proportionate and that we do have regulators who look at things in a proportionate manner. the other piece i would like to bring into the conversation is that we are also looking for other leavers, data laws, design of service, designing

it to be safe. i don't think it is appropriate for tech companies to say let's educate our children to adapt to a world which wasn't designed for them while we let them come on at whatever age and we don't treat them like children. we have got to start the other way round. in at the same time, we cannot blame everything on tag. -- microtech. we need to look at mental health provision. young people spend 11,000 provision. young people spend11,000 hours of their life in school. i'm not saying we can introduce a programme but the government, while they are doing something here which is great, they could go further and do some more statutory stuff in schools to make sure these messages ...and schools to make sure these messages and the uk is not the first are doing this. australia has an e safety commissioner funded by the government. the government here is looking for tech companies to do that. i'm really interested how they

are going to decide which platforms should be contributing to this regulator to fund it. that will be a really interesting process. there was a really interesting point liam made earlier about tommy robinson who has been removed from facebook and twitter and been heavily restricted on youtube so you cannot search for his content. only last week he was given a stage outside parliament to address thousands. this online off—line comparison, we need to be careful we are not chipping things the other way. what do you mean? for example tommy robinson has arrived apparently to stand in front of parliament and spread his message to thousands in the crowd and get online we decided asa the crowd and get online we decided as a society, he should be banned and it's not acceptable his content is there. that's a fair point, there is there. that's a fair point, there isa is there. that's a fair point, there is a discrepancy. let's remember what facebook were live streaming. tommy robinson and a number of his colleagues dry to storm a

constituency mps office. i think we have got to make judgments where the boundaries lie but when you've got a business like facebook that has allowed the live streaming of a massacre in christchurch, you know there's something fundamentally broken with the model. that's why we say you can't deal with with one piece of this, this is a complex industry and dealing with one piece of that which the government has done today isn't going to make much ofa done today isn't going to make much of a difference in if you put in place the jigs of other regulations around hate speech, advertising money, around competition regulation, until you ship the whole syste m regulation, until you ship the whole system onto a new level, you are going to have some of the problems p0p going to have some of the problems p013 ”p going to have some of the problems pop up in different formats. what's your view about this british woman in dubai who wrote while she was in the uk on facebook that someone else was a horse, she's going to dubai, been detained, what would seem disproportionate to us is clearly proportionate in the uae. one of the things that doesn't seem disproportionate, it we have this

country of extraterritorial it, you can't prosecute someone in this country. we have to be prosecute —— we have to be careful how we prosecute someone we have to be careful how we prosecute someone in this country for crimes committed abroad, the scope of the law is the boundary of our country. there are some exceptions around genocide, human rights laws, you have international courts to police some of that. but it's difficult to start writing laws for crimes committed elsewhere. ian on e—mail says my seven—year—old wa nted on e—mail says my seven—year—old wanted to learn indonesian because she wanted to work to save the orangutan. she looked up indonesian and she got a full pornographic image ofan and she got a full pornographic image of an indonesian woman, nothing was hidden. someone else says we desperately need controls of internet content to protect the vulnerable in society and we have a responsibility to do this. i am an aduu responsibility to do this. i am an adult with a mental illness. two yea rs adult with a mental illness. two years ago internet content groomed me during a depressive episode on how to take my own life. i almost

succeeded, i was saved by my wife coming home early. i now have to live with life limiting injuries. there sites provide, as a number had people have said today, step—by—step instructions and have been on the internet for years without any intervention. why are people like me are not protected from this? venus, can you answer for that stuff is still on websites? i think these companies are doing more and more to try and tackle it but we have to remember the scale of this issue. you've got 300 hours of youtube content being uploaded every hour, 500 million tweets every hour. is it even realistic that a regulator can make tech firms take this stuff down? there are certain the action that can be taken. for example it's about being fortunate as the baroness said, its understanding where the risk lies in making sure the interventions are targeted to that risk. one of these things we are talking about, the big tech companies, the government has been

very clear this will apply to all user generated content so this will apply to forums like mums net or comments below the line on say the daily mail website and so if we are going to throw it out so widely we need to be clear about what exactly we wa nt need to be clear about what exactly we want these companies to tackle, how we want them to do it and making sure we are taking a risk based and proportionate response. ok. very quick final word. proportionate response. ok. very quick finalword. thinking about proportionate response. ok. very quick final word. thinking about the people watching us now. this is a thoroughly depressing debate. we got to engender some hope. it's a good new story to date. people are searching online how to die let's promote how to live. if you are watching this today and you need help, reach out and get a come online or off—line, there are charities like mine and others who are there to help you, do not be depressed, today is a good news story. briefly, emma. can i say, since daniel has passed away i've spoken to a lot of children and the internet is probably the last resort

and how to go on to kill themselves because of waiting lists, people forget, children do want to talk but sometimes they haven't got anyone to talk to, they've been referred to services in the waiting list is that long that they see no other way out, six months, i know a child that has been waiting for six months for counselling. six months is a long time and then he goes on to tell me that he feels like no one cares so he goes on the internet because he can't take it anymore. i think the root cause, the government should try and look at the root cause of it as well. waiting times for children who are suffering mental health problems, then go onto the internet to look for other ways out. yes, it's a fair point. and the government would say they are putting more into mental health but it's absolutely a fair point. cheers, emma. thank you very much. thank you to everyone in the studio.

still to come, we speak to nate ethan watson, nine months into his transition from female —— loss of sound now he fears some artists won't want to work with him. from today, if you drive into central london you might have to pay an extra £12 50 because of the new ultra low emissions zone. in its claimed some individuals are affected more. we look at how the scheme works.

nate ethan watson who is 34 and from wolverhampton is nine months into transitioning from female to male. and has performed with some of the uk's biggest urban grime stars in the last decade. he's given us permission to use this clip of performing before he started transitioning. this # chinese whispers, that chat made me shiver, shiver # but i will never quiver, on the mic i deliver # chinese whispers, that chat made me shiver, shiver # but i will never quiver, on the mic i deliver... # i'm from wolves and my... so smooth # if you're doing well then i don't wanna support # see a pretty face, ultimate hater # run down your name with a smile on your face... # going to a rave to have a good time