hello this is bbc news. within the last hour at the defence secretary has been sacked by the pi minister. this is —— the pregnancy. the security defence counsel over a discussion —— the prime minister. the security defence counsel of a discussion of the chinese company huawei. a new defence secretary has been appointed, the first women to replace it. in a letter, the plan is to say that this is an extremely serious matter and are deeply disappointing one. she said, in our

meeting this evening are putting the latest information from the investigation which provides compelling evidence for your responsibility for the unauthorised disclosure that make the unauthorised disclosure. no other credible evidence... i have no “— no other credible evidence... i have no——i no other credible evidence... i have no —— i can no longer have confidence in you as a secretary of state for defence and commence my cabinet and ask you to leave her majesty's oven. as you can see, it has been eventful evening. let's ci’oss has been eventful evening. let's cross to our chief political correspondent. quite a dramatic letter we were reading out there. com pletely letter we were reading out there. completely out of the blue. we knew that this investigation was going on this white hole in leak enquiry to stop there have been many of these over the years and it's pretty rare to find a culprit and even radarfor

it to be a cabinet minister who is then fired. —— even rarer. this is all about a leak about the role of that chinese telecom company and what they would be involved when. —— because it was a national security council it was felt to be much more serious and we have to say much more regular licks that we get from normal cabinet meetings and have sides inspected —— regular leaks. that is what has happened. the prime minister has a sack gavin williamson. i have spoken to his friends are evening and they are... they are notjust denying it, they are that it was pushing back on this. saying that he adds absolutely nothing to do with it. they feel he has been stitched up and they also feel that there has not been any compelling evidence and they have not been shown it. certainly not enough that would prove his involvement. we know that very soon after this all came out, cabinet ministers, including jeremy hunt the foreign secretary were asked about did you or your team get involved in

this? he said no, gavin williamson said something very similar. there we re said something very similar. there were tory mps who are pointing the finger at mr williamson, they said he had a record of leaking things to the press and causing mischief. but asi the press and causing mischief. but as i say, he is absolutely denying any involvement in this. subsequently followed are... let's just concentrate on that investigation pretty mode. as we sign the letter, theresa may said, a piteous evening the later information —— i put to you this evening the latest information about the investigation. have they given any more information about that investigation how is conducted? leg no, there was some scepticism about this investigation doesn't these things have been better get in the past and it is really hard to prove. you might have the phone records of someone's adviser or the abdomen so themselves, they may have a vehicle

ofa themselves, they may have a vehicle of a phone call. that is the problem, to have conclusive evidence can be difficult. this has been carried out pretty quickly by the most senior civil servant in the government. but, as i say, gavin williamson and his friends feel that actually, the evidence is not compelling. theresa may feels that it is. she feels and has a very clearly in this letter that she has to be able to trust her cabinet ministers and also particularly those who are on the national security council. because of course they have to sign the official secrets act and this is not a normal cabinet meeting to stop this inevitably talks about very sensitive information. in terms of what happens next, given the fact that gavin williamson is strongly denying that i'm pushing back, do you think that he will, having made that point go quietly or do you think this is going to ramble on and turn unpleasant? like i cannot see him going quietly. he was a big

backer of theresa may he was chief whip he very unexpectedly became defence secretary because are lots of jokes defence secretary because are lots ofjokes at defence secretary because are lots of jokes at the defence secretary because are lots ofjokes at the time that he has chief whip was recommending who might be given that position and then give it himself. but he was close to theresa may, but i think the relations have not been as warm lately, but of course that is another headache for theresa may because she has lost of cabinet ministers over the pernicious, including of course brexit. —— over many issues. i think his public pretty angry over this and says he has not been involved. a very swift replacement, the uk getting its first female defence secretary in penny mourdant. herjob has been taken by the present‘s minister.

someone has been very open in the media batting for the pi minister, defending her brexit deal, trying to persuade mps to get behind it. he has been rewarded for his loyalty when his first cabinetjob. has been rewarded for his loyalty when his first cabinet job. thank you very much. bang is up to speed there. i'm going to speak any moment her security correspond, but ijust wa nt to her security correspond, but ijust want to show you, i hope, a tweet that we have just had from our political editor sing, i have just spoken to gavin williamson who still denies he was the source of the leak from the national security council. he said neither he nor his team would ever leak from the nsc. he said neither he nor his team would ever leakfrom the nsc. a he said neither he nor his team would ever leak from the nsc. a very firm flesh back, a very firm denial that make a very film —— a very firm pushback. we've been talking a lot

about the context of this and at the national security committee and the national security committee and the national security committee and the national security council and how significant that is as a body. why is this such a big deal that a leak should come from that particular meeting? the national security council meets once a week and any nine years that it has been in existence since it was set up under david cameron's government, nothing of this importance has ever been late before. —— leaked before. the reason it is important as it is the place where the intelligence chiefs, from mi5, mi6 and gchq come together with the elected cabinet ministers and give them their frank advice. within this kind of inner sanctum. it is likely holy of holies. it is like a faraday box where nothing gets in or out. that is why it is so serious. they give secret intelligence, they pass on a secret intelligence, they pass on a secret intelligence which, in some cases

could have been obtained at great risk by agents overseas, or electronic interception by gchq. secure any knowledge that it is never going to get out of there. u nless we never going to get out of there. unless we get appeared on the daily on wednesday morning. they leak investigation began on friday. it has taken a team of 60 to come up with the results, which have been passed to the pi minister —— prime minister went like we do not know what they were doing as they went about it, but how many people with they have had to speak to. no i don't know exactly was, but any people who are at it were not named —— the intelligence figures were not named. the cabinet, some of the cabinet ministers were named. especially those who are uneasy with the prime minister's decision to go

ahead with giving huawei allegedly access to some of the 5g technology. sajid javid was mentioned, jeremy huntand sajid javid was mentioned, jeremy hunt and penny mourdant. as well as a gavin williamson. the former defence secretary. there are a number of ways this can be tied down, it can be tracked down digitally or with an interview. i have been told in the last few minutes that gavin williamson was knocked cooperating fully with the enquiry and that certainly didn't help his case i think. there's lots of different ways that people can communicate in cryptic ways, using encrypted apps, but it has not taken that long to find out who they think was responsible, despite his denials. just before justify beginning, some words on the official secrets act and the need

for secrecy. is there a sense that this would have resulted in some more official sanction? there are people who have already said that whoever leaked that out of this meeting has committed a criminal offence. and if guilty should go to prison. that is still a little early to say that, but certainly there will be people saying that. everybody in that meeting, in that nsc national security council meeting would be cleared up to what is called strap to level intelligence. there are various encodings of intelligence, strap three being the highest, strap two is pretty serious. ministers often are appointed at their short notice and cannot be developed, baited in such a a short space of time to stop —— vetted in such a short space of time. it appears it was gavin williamson and whoever did this, it appears it was gavin williamson, broke trust. if that is being licked, what else is being licked?

i'm going to come to you —— leaked. i never have leak anything from the national security council nor would i ever leak anything from national security council nor would lever leak anything from the national security council. to get nature under suspicion? as i said, never went, never have. denying there that he had been involved in this, very firmly. let's talk about the significance of this on the wider, diplomatic skill. but then a key figure in the cabinet. defence secretary, now a change again. how much of a loss will he be to theresa may? he will be a loss because he was a loyalist. he was very close to theresa may and her former chief whip. no prime minister likes to know somebody in a cabinet who she felt she could trust. there are lots of people in this cabinet who she

cannot trust at the moment because the cab she will miss having a loyal voice across the table. prime ministers do not like to lose ministers do not like to lose ministers and being forced to lose them because it just ministers and being forced to lose them because itjust adds ministers and being forced to lose them because it just adds to a sense of weakness, a sense of bunker mentality, which has been accused of any latest weeks because of the brexit row and the number of mps who say that should go. it does not help on that front. in terms of the broader geopolitical signals that the of descending it, i do not think that will change at all about what this government is sending out a lot of ministers and foreign ministers look at this government and know that it has a time limit attached to ita that it has a time limit attached to it a lot of these ministers are not going to be imposed a very long time andl going to be imposed a very long time and i think that the changes that

are being made at the moment will not be seen as that significant to the outside world. on the other hand, on some levels, penny mourdant the first women. a rare moment, someone the first women. a rare moment, someone who actually serves in the armed forces being a defence secretary. i don't think we had a defence secretary who has picked up a weapon and going to serve their nation since i think tom king some time ago under margaret thatcher. and also rory stewart as the new international developer and secretary. fascinating appointment. a former diplomat, former governor in iraq. he is a former minister who used to be at international development. very interesting maverick ideas about the way britain should place itself in the world. so i think there will be many people looking at that appointment and thinking, oh, that is an interesting appointment. he might only have a few months. all change, all over

again. to the issue where this all came unstuck which is huawei. with your diplomatic hat on, how difficult —— how damaging or that have been to this relationship when we are talking about how much huawei should be involved ? we are talking about how much huawei should be involved? brothers because in the company headache. 0r should be involved? brothers because in the company headache. or will they be trying to stay above and beyond this? look, i think they will look upon it and see it as internal private grief for the british cove na nt. i private grief for the british covenant. i think they will want to stay out of it as much as possible. the problem of china and huawei is that the british government is divided. lightly over, is china an opportunity or is it a threat. the decision made by the nsc, the view expressed in the nsc, because it was not a definite decision. and if there is a new premise in months to come, a new prime minister could have a different view. the decision

that was taken was that china is an opportunity, there is an economic opportunity, there is an economic opportunity they are getting into huawei's 5g services, but there needs to be constrained. the chinese and others are going to think again, yet again, the british do not quite know. what is their view on china? is continues to express their uncertainty. frank, bring in on this. this is very much early. china's security and its intent. perhaps the most robust minister in the cabinet and taking a tough line with china over the south china sea. i with china over the south china sea. , gavin williamson. china has claimed over 90% of the south china sea and all these reefs and islands and it has crated artificial reefs and it has crated artificial reefs and he was very proud of the fact that hms argyll had sailed through that hms argyll had sailed through that contested area and that

attitude to beijing is very at odds withjeremy attitude to beijing is very at odds with jeremy hunt and attitude to beijing is very at odds withjeremy hunt and others attitude to beijing is very at odds with jeremy hunt and others who have takena with jeremy hunt and others who have taken a more consolatory line to beijing. ithink taken a more consolatory line to beijing. i think others have talked about a golden age of cooperation, but that is not a view shared by governments in. which is one of the reason that other people have said, well, if anybody was going to be mounting a robust rebuttal of this idea of cooperating with wildly, it could be him. -- with huawei. i deny thinking this is domestic politics unravelling or will be —— will they be thinking this is domestic politics unravelling or... ? they will be watching very closely. they we re will be watching very closely. they were grilling the prime minister about why britain's is getting so close to a company that is vulnerable to coercion by chinese data security. there are very real

fears there. it should be said that britain already does have a relationship with huawei. the stuff that has already been built. so it is about moving from 46, first generation, which we currently have two the fifth generation and whether it is safe or not. and the story yesterday of course was that the us saying that if britain goes ahead and does this with huawei and allows it to build its fifth generation, thenit it to build its fifth generation, then it cannot necessary share all its intelligence with us. that is a pretty big threat. i want to turn again to twitter. more and more reaction coming into this three—day course of the evening to the political editor of the sun says, i did not —— gavin williamson says he did not —— gavin williamson says he did not —— gavin williamson says he did not like this and to my dying day i will keep on insisting that. it suggests that... we now have what is very much a world of the nternet people taking very different positions and are very much, gavin

williamson thing this is not correct, this is not true. i utterly refuted. if you look at the text of the payments are's letter together mines and, it suggests that all the evidence points —— the prime minister's letter the evidence points to get mounting, but they don't have absolute evidence. compelling evidence, suggesting that back not guaranteed, but suggesting your responsibility for the leak, no other credible expedition for these events have been fine. all the signs pointed to government, but we may not always have a smoking gun. clearly there is a clash of two different views here. but, the prime minister has made it very clear decision. i don't think anything is going to say necessarily well reversed that decision. thank you very much. 0h, we were hoping