dry start of the bearing in mind, a dry start of the week then turning wet and windy and it could be cool for the early part of may.

we are in the most turbulent period

in british politics since the second world war. the votes have been counted in hundreds of local councils in england and tomorrow they will be counted in northern ireland. the stakes have rarely been higher. yes, good evening from the bbc‘s election centre where we're standing by for the first results of these local elections. throughout the day millions of people have voting in much of england and northern ireland. local issues without doubt will dictate many of the results but it's impossible to ignore the wider political landscape the brexit deadlock at westminster and the prolonged uncertainty that's come with it. as ever these nights are a challening test for the political leaders. the prime minister accompanied by husband philip may was casting her vote in the local

elections in maidenhead today after a rather hectic 2a hours in which she sacked her defence secretary gavin williamson folllowing a leak of information from the national security council. jeremy corbyn has not been voting today because there are no elections in london or scotland or wales, but he has been campaigning in recent weeks knowing that labour has to prove that it can take seats and councils from the conservatives. the results are now starting to come in andi results are now starting to come in and i will be here at this giant touch—screen with all the analysis. our political editor laura kuenssberg is with us with her take of the night's results. we have reporters at all the main counts and we are joined by senior politicians from across the political spectrum. so stay with us for election 2019.

so, millions of votes have been cast and of course everything has now been counted, except in northern ireland and we should get a strong flow of results and before too long, so flow of results and before too long, so what i would like to do straightaway tonight is take a look at some of the counts going on around england right now and let us look at swindon where they have been running in with the ballot boxes. the conservatives they are defending a wafer thin majority over labour and they are waiting to see if they can hang on or indeed if labour can ta ke can hang on or indeed if labour can take it, especially with the planned closure of the honda park. it has been a big campaign theme. some boxes arriving in sunderland in the north—east of england, only a third of seats up this year. the early news and let us be cautious, is that the labour vote is down sharply in some areas in sunderland and it has already lost a seat there are ukip

and to the conservatives and we will be following that. and the scene in colchester in essex which is in no overall control, the conservatives have been getting closer to majority in recent years and the question i suppose there is can they get over the line tonight? we shall see. just some of the accounts going on, we will not hear anything from the ii councils in northern ireland, they are not counting until the morning and even then the results will take some time to come in. we are joined from politicians of all persuasions including the liberal democrat deputy leaderjo swinson, barry gardiner from deputy leaderjo swinson, barry gardinerfrom labour deputy leaderjo swinson, barry gardiner from labour and the deputy leaderjo swinson, barry gardinerfrom labour and the brexit minister from gardinerfrom labour and the brexit ministerfrom the gardinerfrom labour and the brexit minister from the conservatives, james cleverly. you are very welcome. we will be with you on a second. before we come to you, i would like to bring in laura to speu would like to bring in laura to spell out for us at the start of this marathon what is at stake. very straightforward, who will the people be who make decisions for millions of us around the country about

school admissions, who collect the bends, roads and all those other important things in towns and villages around the country. second of all, what we have been looking foran of all, what we have been looking for an election is like this is what is happening to support for the government? is it falling away as it often does in these elections and are the big opposition party on the march? we will be looking for evidence between the two main westminster parties but we cannot ignore the third thing, what is the layering on of the crazy turbulence we have seen at westminster? what is in the minds of voters? when they look at the deadlock at westminster and the way that our politicians have been trying to deal with brexit? a quick word before we go to reeta, some results coming in, a few results that are favourable to labour, but we will look at some of those results in a moment with reeta. a few thoughts about the bigger landscape that is here and what we are likely to be able to

look for in these local results, which will tell us something about the bigger picture? the first thing, fascinatingly, when these seats were last contested, the idea of a european referendum was just a promise in the conservative ma nifesto promise in the conservative manifesto in 2015. now we all know, we are living in a completely different political landscape. in particular, where will people who voted ukip the last time around go? they are contesting fewer seats and where will they go? will they stay at home? where will conservatives frustrated about the brexit process 01’ frustrated about the brexit process ora frustrated about the brexit process or a lack of go? what will it mean for the authority of the prime minister? there are plenty of tories at westminster who want to see her go on and would like to see her gone quickly. a terrible set of results for her and a lot of tories expect that would undoubtedly crank up the pressure on her. for the opposition party, jeremy corbyn will need to show real evidence, not that they arejust in an unhappy

show real evidence, not that they are just in an unhappy stalemate, level pegging with the conservatives, but that they can make progress in the parts of the country were general elections are lost and won. lots of things to think about. we have some results coming in, reeta, what do we have? we have got sunderland. they are still counting there. still 18 wards to declare but this is a labour hold, ina to declare but this is a labour hold, in a sense it was always going to be so. labour have been solidly in control since the 1970s and they we re in control since the 1970s and they were unassailable. there are some interesting things going on if you look at the figures. let me show you the seat changes so far and this is with 18 still to declare. labour has lost two seats, the conservatives have gained one and ukip has gained one. even more interesting, is the change in the share of the vote. look at that, labour are down 14%, ukip up10%, the look at that, labour are down 14%, ukip up 10%, the green party up 5% and then some division elsewhere.

that is very striking. it is early days and we will see how that translates, but quite a stark figure. reeta, thank you. barry, some thoughts on that. i know it is early days and i know that sunderland is obviously a big traditional heritage for you, but still, 14% down at this point in the electoral cycle, what do you make of that? what is clear from the graph that? what is clear from the graph that you have shown is that 10% of that you have shown is that 10% of that has gone to ukip and in the present circumstances, given the disquiet over brexit, i don't think thatis disquiet over brexit, i don't think that is a remarkable thing. 5% up for the green party. that is something i imagine a number of labour voters, if it is those people who have switched over, they have tried to go for what they saw as a

left party but just tried to go for what they saw as a left party butjust register their discontent in terms of what they feel about the brexit position. it is early days. it is a council that is early days. it is a council that is solidly labour and long may it be so. is solidly labour and long may it be so. what i am going to do is go straight to sunderland to the count. luke, thank you forjoining us. tell us luke, thank you forjoining us. tell us what you make of the results and what we should read into them. seats are being declared hear all the time and you can hear the noise in the background. sunderland is famous for its rapid election counts. labour is dominant here and there is no danger of them losing their majority. so far it has not been an auspicious start for labour, they have lost one seat to ukip, one to the conservatives. i understand that the liberal democrats now have a game here as well and the green party are a p pa re ntly here as well and the green party are apparently on the cusp of a victory here as well. there has been a

recount. some of their votes are going to all of those parties and when it comes to ukip it is worth mentioning that they have put up a full slate of candidates here and last year they only had a handful. this is a brexit voting city and that has been a factor on the doorstep and a lot of people are talking about frustration and anger about delays due brexit. there have been a lot of local issues here that have not gone well for labour, a row about the relocation of the council headquarters and allegations of a waste of money, that the children services here have been criticised by 0fsted and handed over to an independent body. there is a mixture of national and local factors and independent body. there is a mixture of national and localfactors and i am also picking up from campaigners am also picking up from campaigners a real anti—politics feel on the doorstep, talk of campaigners being spat at and shouted out. it has been a volatile election here. no chance of labour losing control but so far they appear to have lost three seats

already and we are early in the evening. is there any suggestion, i will put it to barry later, is there any suggestion that labour's loss of support is due to its stance on brexit or is it to do with other things? well, that is certainly what ukip is telling me and indeed some of the labour campaigners. it is worthy of note that three of the city ‘s labour mps support a second referendum and according to ukip that has not gone unnoticed among some voters and has not been popular with some voters. even ukip will say that there are also local factors at work, that this is a controversial administration that has been in power for administration that has been in powerfor a administration that has been in power for a number of decades and has had some very bad headlines in the last few there is a mixture of national and local but brexit is clearly a factor, it is the city which led the way to a new vote on referendum night and there are

strong feelings on that issue here. luke, thank you. i want to go straight to swindon where they are also expecting results shortly and dan is there. what is the state of play? good evening. swindon is also a close race between labour and the tories and they count the votes very quickly. it is partly thanks to the fa ct quickly. it is partly thanks to the fact that they play dubstep to keep people counting. a couple of results have come on in the last 15 minutes. no losses for the tory shed who control the council and have done since 200a. a significant result for labour in the last few minutes. the area of swindon which was staunchly labour, the incumbent there are quit the party not so long ago and stood as an independent and up against her, labour put their parliamentary candidate for north swindon, a seat

which has fallen to the party of government ever since it was created in 1997. labour have lost that state. it has been taken by the conservatives for the first time in the history of that state. very early days, only three or four results insofar, but the conservatives had a tiny majority going into the selection and they are quietly comfortable that they will stay in power and they have a reduced majority, but quietly confident, the conservatives here, they mightjust confident, the conservatives here, they might just might confident, the conservatives here, they mightjust might hold onto power, define the results of eve ryo ne power, define the results of everyone else. tell us about the nature of the campaign, what did it focus on? there are big issues in swindon not least the honda issue but there are other issues. what would you say was the main feature of the campaign? it is interesting

that you mention honda, obviously a massive issue for this town, 3500 jobs involved if that pan —— plant closes down, as expected. that is not been a massive issue during the campaign. the parties have been united in wanting to fight the closure. brexit has been on the doorsteps, everyone is saying that, you know on the door, their own motioning to the days when people would talk about potholes or recycling. that is not meant —— happening anymore. brexit is dominating campaign. dan, thank you very much. back to you barry. i think we will come to this all the time. what people are saying about brexit on the doorstep, even though this is a local election. does it surprise you that both of our correspondence there are saying that

they have detected a lot of frustration, if not anger, with the lack of progress on brexit and actually leave supporters are recited with the party's stance on it with in any local election you get the national factor overlaying the local factors. the big issue in swindon is the closure of the honda plant. i went to swindon a few weeks ago, and i was speaking with the locals. that has affected everybody in the town. interesting that your briefing are saying that in some wards there is a swing to labour. i think that there we re swing to labour. i think that there were 11 out of 11, the conservatives had to retain the majority there. but the point there was that honda, although it is a big issue for lots of families, it had not been a big

feature of the campaign. he came back to say it was brexit, that was the thing that lots of these party workers, including your own, were coming across on the doorstep? the frustration about that?|j coming across on the doorstep? the frustration about that? i am sure locally that brexit is an issue. national issues always overlay the local issues and we saw that in sunderland as well. this is a seat where the conservatives have had 29, labour had 2a, the lib dems two and two independence. it was not a seat where we thought we were in line to win. but it is one in which we a lwa ys win. but it is one in which we always feel we have a chance of doing that. these elections, in a sense, you've got to say, well, 60% of the seats that are up tonight our conservative seats. these elections will be a test of the conservative party far more than a test of the labour party or any of the others.

they are a test for everyone? of course they are, but these are not the traditional cities where labour has so much of its strongholds. james will agree... last time, if you go back, it was 2015, on the same day as the general election, that these particular sets of seats we re that these particular sets of seats were up for election. that was at the end of the coalition period. the liberals were doing extremely badly at that stage. they suffered because of the general election being on the same day, in those seats, as well. we will see a redressing of the balance in that sense. james, it is a test for you as well, and forjo. because we are likely to come to it several times, what would you say to viewers at this early stage about your expectations, given what we all

know are massive levels of frustration in pockets of the country about what is happening at westminster? to a large extent, i agree with some of the points that barry has been making. he is right, the last time this particular mix of local government elections happened coincided with the general election, where my party, the conservatives, did better than expected. we had a turnout boost because it was a general election. this means we are going into these elections act, you might say, an artificially high level. nine years into government, you would be expecting us to lose lots of seats. that is the normal situation. at the nine—year point, when labour were situation. at the nine—year point, when labourwere in situation. at the nine—year point, when labour were in government, we had taken about 4500 seats off them. until 2015 we were still winning seats. you would normally expect, for example in swindon, barry is saying that he wouldn't expect to ta ke saying that he wouldn't expect to

take swindon. well, swindon is a bellwether pair of constituencies and you would expect labour to be making big gains at this point in the electoral cycle in places like swindon. but our local government and counsellors work hard, they deliver good council services. i hope they are judged on that delivery. but it would be unrealistic for me to pretend that, you know, nine years in government, brexit as a backdrop, that this is going to be anything other than a tough night for us. i will come to law ina tough night for us. i will come to law in a second, jo, a quick word about the challenge facing you? —— i will come to laura. last year, we nearly beat labour in terms of how many new council are gains we made, but you just pipped us to the post, with 78. it would be good to beat labour on that front and make more lib dem gains. i hope we will. when i have been out and about across the country, the mood has been positive. if we can get into triple figures,

that would be a really good night and part of the lib dem fight back, which is happening. because people are absolutely disillusioned on the doorsteps with the job the government is making. the only thing that unites the country at the moment is the view that the government is dealing with it badly. it doesn't matter if people were leave or remain, everybody can pretty much agree. i have to say that the view of the labour opposition is not much different on that. so, i do think that people are looking for an alternative and the liberal democrats have been very clear that we provide that alternative. the three of you have been keen to set out what you want to define as your bedrock in terms of the last election. what i would like to do before i bring laura back in is to ask reeta to remind us of the seats being defended, then we will know the yardstick. these are the seats being defended, this is the seats being defended, this is the electoral battle ground tonight.

you can see that the conservatives have by far and away the far the largest number of seats, 4901. this is partly, as barry gardner was saying, because of the nature of the contest. most of the seats are in conservative heartlands. london is not voting, nor is wales or scotland. that is reflected in these figures. to a certain extent, whether the conservatives have a good or bad night, it would be very surprising if they don't end up with the highest number of seats after the highest number of seats after the end of today. labour are on 2105. many fewer. liberal democrats, 647. that was a point of lowness, after they lost seats, punished by voters, people think, because of their part in the coalition. they will be hoping to build on that.

ukip on 176, the green party on 71. i want to show udc to changes that happened last time these were contested. —— i want to show you the seta changes. last time the local elections happened on the same night as the general election, david cameron won that and his victory was reflected in the conservative performance in the local elections. 541 seats, a high water mark for the conservatives. a different story for labour, they lost 203 seats. they will be hoping that they can build on that. the lib dems, as we said before, a bad night for them, losing over 400 seats. a quick word about ukip, they put on 176. not all of those seats will be ukip anymore. they had quite a few defections

since then. at the time they got the seats, got a healthy share of the vote, 13%. they are bumping along much lower now. the question tonight is where will the ukip votes go? very useful to give us some of the seat levels. in a moment, we will be going to trafford, because it is a very important going to trafford, because it is a very im porta nt contest going to trafford, because it is a very important contest in the south of manchester. we will also be going to colchester in essex and talking to colchester in essex and talking to our correspondent there. laura, your thoughts at this point, having heard the initial contributions from our guests? well, ifi can, i would like to have some fun with the panel. there are always aspects of curious expectation management, we have not talked about where the big numbers end up, we will be thinking about how many seats did the government lose, and how many seats overall did labour and the lib dems gain? because all three of you be as

honest as you possibly can about where you think it is going to end 7 where you think it is going to end up? what would be a bad or good night? you don't want to lose seats. these are ha rd—working night? you don't want to lose seats. these are hard—working councillors. you don't want to lose seats. but for us, let's take the independent figures, that is probably the fairest, lord heywood was predicting somewhere between 500, 800 and fairest, lord heywood was predicting somewhere between 500,800 and 1000. losses. those are the figures that have been kicking around in the public domain. you know what is not in the public domain, does that feel about right for you? the challenge that we have got is that there are so that we have got is that there are so many variables. we are coming at this from an artificially high watermark. we have the backdrop of

brexit. we have got nine years into the electoral cycle. all of these things are combined, which makes this really unpredictable. you are not disagreeing with losing as many as 800 seats, potentially? all we can do is cherry pick little bits of experience we pick up on the doorstep. i have had difficult conversations on the doorstep, and againi conversations on the doorstep, and again i have been pleasantly surprised in places. but if you ended but if you ended up on let's say 500 losses, would you be honestly quite relieved by that? no, no, i'm not saying you are happy butjohn major backin saying you are happy butjohn major back in the 90s lost nearly 2000 seats, so that is a meltdown, so i'm just asking if it was in the region of 500, would that be manageable?” would be, honestly if it was 500 rather than a thousand, i would be happy with that but we fight every seat to win every seat. at this

stage, the opposition should be on the march and you stood there and bravely said that swindon isn't the kind of place where you would expect to win, well, swindon is exactly the kind of place where labour needs to be showing gains if you had a chance of winning convincingly at the election, so what would be a good night for you? can i just say, the 203 losses that we sustained last time around, i would like to see eve ryo ne time around, i would like to see everyone of those reversed? i would like us to, if you like, come back to where we should have been at the last time around. but these are, and you will acknowledge that these are not the traditional labour, these are the shires, not all that broadly these other shires and the other parts of the country where historically... surely must be showing more gains thanjust restoring seats? i want to take our message about getting more money

into education and social services, getting more money to our local services one cheaper, because of course, labour councils on average about £251 less expensive than conservative councils. that is not right. campaign is done, it is done in. it is never done, you know that. i want to get that message out on every door step and of course, i would love to have as many new labour counsellors as possible up and down the country. the key thing though is actually not the number of individual seats, it is do we control more councils because when you control a council, that is when you control a council, that is when you can actually change the structure of local services and do what you want for local people and their well—being. —— councillors. that is when you can actually make the difference. so viewers listening

to carefully, winking that actually you said you were hoping to make 200 gains, is that correct? no, you ask me, iam gains, is that correct? no, you ask me, i am actually not trying to do a prediction. it is stupid to do a prediction. it is stupid to do a prediction at this point in the evening, it is way too early. the other thing that you and laura may wa nt to other thing that you and laura may want to comment on is that you keep, how many seats it is contesting, will also have an impact on what happens. and very few in fact. indeed. whereas, last time, they we re indeed. whereas, last time, they were in their plan. jo? i would like us were in their plan. jo? i would like us to be in the three figures of net gains, that would give us our best local councils result in terms of net gain since 2004. that would be a really good night. we are controlling six counties going into that. obviously, one is to look to maintain control of those counties,

and to have a good springboard for the european elections poll which is ina few the european elections poll which is in a few weeks past time and a lot of people are going to see what they can do to express their frustration about brexit and how to stop accident the liberal democrat vote isa accident the liberal democrat vote is a vote stop accident. and there are some suggestions that in the lib dem camp, you might be looking at the hundred or 500 gains, is that realistic? i would be clearly over the moon if that happened. i think at the higher end of what you are saying there, that would be a higher election night in terms of gains and we have ever had in our party past history, so i'm not going to set thatis history, so i'm not going to set that is the benchmark because we've got people across the country who have done an amazing job and i think we are set to make some gains i'm not going to say it has to be our best election ever. just managing our expectations here.” best election ever. just managing our expectations here. i think you have gained d in sunderland for example, which is excellent news. the very important contest going on in trafford because this is, of

course, have a big flagship conservative council in the past because it was one of the very few councils in that part of the world. —— this was a very big flagship. they lost control of it last year, could go into labour control? what is your reading of this year? could go into labour control? what is your reading of this year7m could go into labour control? what is your reading of this year? it is going to be fascinating to watch how things unfold this year. as he said, from 2004, this was firm conservative territory. with labour having one more counsellor last time, and that was due to lots of reasons, one being tory plans to build a green belt, another being a bot cleaning contract that they were seen as responsible for the labour tonight are saying that the gains they are making tonight and their projected gains will be down to good old—fashioned doorknocking projected gains will be down to good old —fashioned doorknocking and looking at the piles going down there there seems to be some credence to those claims. i spoke to one labour down there who said the demographic round here is shifting,

there are some rapid gentrification happening in this part of south manchester. one person i spoke to said they arejust manchester. one person i spoke to said they are just the sort of people who likejeremy corbyn, i was speaking to the conservative group leader on trafford council and said to him isn't going to be a bad night for you? what would a good year look like? because about four year cycle that you have been talking about, he he said actuallyjust clinging onto the 29 seats we have would be good for the conservative party, i said to him do you think that is going to happen? and he did not look optimistic. he said it will be a significant factor, what is happening in westminster, if the toys do badly tonight. and interestingly, this is graham brady's seat, the chair of the 1922 committee and it has somehowjumped to the top of the list of the target seats for the labour party should there be a general election. what had been the issues there? i'm just wondering again, when party leaders

talk to you about their experience on the doorstep, what do they say? they are talking about frustration with austerity, which is not necessarily something we have heard a lot in the past. this is quite an affluent a lot in the past. this is quite an afflu e nt pa rt a lot in the past. this is quite an affluent pa rt of a lot in the past. this is quite an affluent part of greater manchester but they are saying the messages on austerity, parts to green spaces and threats to green spaces are really resonating with boaters here. —— parts. they are also talking about how they have protected the framework, the mayor of the greater manchester authority has protected the green framework, those were plans to build on some green spaces here. —— voters. last year, the green party of all parties made gains in altrincham, that is firm tory territory and they optimistic of making again tonight. thank you very much, we'll talk to you a little later. -- they are. let's just have a look at the list of

contests that we have an east of england, colchester which were going to visit injust england, colchester which were going to visit in just a second, we will have andrew sinclair talking to us there, will be looking as well at basildon, st albans, thurrock and north norfolkjust a few of the ones we're looking at in east england. let's go to the top of the list and colchester, quite a big battle going on there, andrew, tell us what is going on. well, the politics of the east has always been dominated by the conservatives. james cleverly has a seatjust down the road from here, priti patel, the conservatives on most of our councils on the east and the expectation is that after tonight, that will still be the case. the interesting thing will be to see what happens in a few of those key councils, like hearing colchester, good night for the toys, they should take this council. a good night to the toys, they should be able to take north norfolk. —— tories. a bad night and we could see

places like southland go from tory to no overall control. i have to say here tonight the toys are very iumpy, here tonight the toys are very jumpy, brandon lewis has been here campaigning amid fears that the tory group leader here might lose his seat tonight to the greens. —— southend. from north norfolk, the news does not look good for the tories either. he said they are braced for heavy losses, the tory vote is on strike today. he does not look good for the conservatives, quick word on turnout, which i think be very important tonight. we have nothing here from colchester at the moment but in basildon, some of the early wards of reporting turnouts of 1796, early wards of reporting turnouts of 17%, 19%, 23%. we have 30% at the moment and that has been the highest. as you say, basildon is a

pocket of low turnout, we will see if that is the case butjust going back to colchester, where you are, and just wondering at this point what you think would be the factors that would be affecting that contest there if that result goes along the lines that you have been partly suggesting, what would you tell viewers? well, talk to the conservatives and they say on the doorsteps, we have been finding that people are certainly tired of politics and tired of politicians but they do want to talk to us about local issues. talk to labour, the greens, the democrats and actually quite a few tories as well and they say brexit has paid big in this campaign. remember, the east of england was in many areas a heavy vote leave area and there is a lot of frustration over brexit. a candidate from labour was telling me a short while ago it has been a hostile environment out there. he says it has been absolutely awful fighting this campaign and i have

heard lots of stories of doors being slammed in faces, candidates being sworn at, a conservative candidate hearing colchester was punched last week, a labour candidate in great yarmouth was also punched the other week as well. now, we should stress this sort of thing is incredibly rare andi this sort of thing is incredibly rare and i think on the whole, campaigning has been simple but eve ryo ne campaigning has been simple but everyone i have spoken to has said that brexit is playing very big on the doorsteps in the atmosphere has been very fractious. andrew, good to talk to you again, thank you very much. andrew sinclair there for us in the east of colchester, really just reminding us of the huge tensions that there are, of course, as part of the political process at the moment. but we have had how many results in? ten councils declared, 238 to go but ten declared and full marks to the ten who had declared, may i just say? marks to the ten who had declared, may ijust say? we are marks to the ten who had declared, may i just say? we are full of admiration for the quick counting, evenif admiration for the quick counting, even if it is with a low turnout. and we have got 161 councillors

elected, so our congratulations to them but we have more than 8000 yet to be decided. so ten councils in, what i would like to ask rita is to just go through the list you have there of early results. let me just explain how to read this screen, most of it is pretty self—evident. when it has gone blue, that means that the council has become conservative, when it is read, it is labour and if you see the little flashes they are at the end, that shows you what the council was before tonight's result, so in the case of broxbourne and hertfordshire, that is a conservative hold, hold on merseyside, that is a labour hold. this council in hampshire, conservative hold. newcastle upon tyne, sunderland, wigan, all labour holds. this is going to sunderland because we had a look at this before, although it is a labour hold, they have held onto the

council, they are still counting there. what was interesting was what was happening to the change in seats. let's have a look, let's try this again. so although it is a labour hold, labour have lost eight seats and they have been divided up between the conservatives, liberal democrats, ukip and one green and also interesting is the change in the share of the vote, so labour now down 16%, so the account is still going on in sunderland but the share of the vote for labour certainly has gone down quite strikingly. i want to show you one more. now, this is swindon. swindon was conservative and it is still being counted, it has not yet been declared, which is why it is in white. if we just go into it... so you can see there, the winning post is 29, there are still ten wards to declare and it is a straight fight between conservative

and labour, conservative on 24, live on 21 and if we just take a little look here at the share change, better news for labour here than in sunderland. the share has gone up by 596 sunderland. the share has gone up by 5% but this is still a work in progress, the count is still on. thanks very much. let's bring in our guru. john, welcome. what do you make of it so far? what other signs you are looking on with interest? we're looking on with interest? we're looking at the detailed figures for individual boards in each of the councils. it is still early days but let me remind you of one of the major features of the 2017 general election and that was the way in which between them conservatives and labour dominated the election. the biggest combined share sense 1970.

these early signs so far, we might be saying tonight that those days are over and that even though the brexit party is not fighting and change uk is not fighting these elections, when you look at the voting figures and compare them with last year, i am looking at a lot of minus signs both for the conservatives and the labour party. a lot of plus signs for the greens. double what they were getting fighting these wards before. ukip, clearly stronger than last year although not necessarily doing quite as well as 2015. the liberal

democrats not spectacular although some occasional spectacular su ccesses . some occasional spectacular successes. looking more like classes than minuses. the message of the opinion polls that both conservatives and labour have been losing ground, that story may be confirm. i cannot say pharmacy in the data evident that the labour party is now ahead of the conservatives across the country as a whole but it is early days. we will see clearer evidence. we had a go at putting our guests on the spot in terms of seat numbers which is a risky game at this point of the night. what are your thoughts on yardsticks? my night. what are your thoughts on ya rdsticks? my thought night. what are your thoughts on yardsticks? my thought is, remember the first past the post can often mean that seat won or lost are a

poor guide. even if for example labour were to gain seats in the conservatives loses seats, maybe the real story is about both have lost ground when you look at the voting figures. my advice to people is to listen out what we have to say about the vote, not just listen out what we have to say about the vote, notjust the seeds. although if the labour vote goes down or vice—versa, actually if they are both down, that might be the key story. what do you say about the nature of the campaign? what is your reading in terms of local versus national issues? certainly in sunderland where there has been a local labour counsellor, maybe that cost the labour party in particular. to that extent the picture in sunderland is put to striking. some signs perhaps... one of the thing

about the brexit impasse is a plague on all your houses and there is some sign that maybe voters have been voting for greens, ukip, liberal democrats and that is something else to look for. otherwise, although your correspondence have been reporting low turnout, so far the evidence is that the turnout is pretty much in line with what we get for local elections which is around 30%. that's interesting. lots of talk about people staying away and the turnout noticeably dipping but so far you are not noting that. so far. the caveat, it is early in the night and we need more data. don't go away, john. we will be back. john curtis. very interesting. senior labour politicians and tory

politicians have been predicting that. everyone who works around westminster and paying attention to politics in the last six months also have seen how both our main parties have seen how both our main parties have been struggling to cope with the challenge the electorate has set them and it is not surprising to see early evidence that the parties are split in different ways. tourism struggling, labour struggling with how to cope with the brexit challenge. it may be that people have paid attention to local issues. whether you are labour or tory, you are making a mess of it.” whether you are labour or tory, you are making a mess of it. i think it is the backdrop against which local issues are projected. and i think the thing that surprises me, the figuresj was suggesting, it is the

explicitly anti— brexit parties you would expect them to mop up huge numbers, the lib dems, a curse on both your houses type vote... the public is largely anti— brexit? both your houses type vote... the public is largely anti- brexit? what we know from the referendum result half a country voted to remain. we still don't really know and i took this up with barry when we did the brexit debate a number of months ago, before christmas, that really british people still don't know where labour party seats on brexit and that is been reflected in some of the results we are getting in traditional brexit voting areas like sunderland for example. brexit is an issue but, as we have still heard, there are local issues coming up about cleaning contracts, big

collections, you cannot decipher between the two. if you are going to lose six because of your handling of brexit that is evidence that people do not want it. that is rather different than people being frustrated with your handling of it. perhaps think again about considering another referendum?m 40% voted to remain and the lib dems are the explicitly remain party, they should be aiming for hundreds of votes. that rationale is that labour's position is as clear as mud on this. that would mean 52% of population would be voting conservatives and you would be doing very well. no, the point is, there are going to be people who wanted to vote for brexit who are frustrated with the fact that it has not been

delivered. i am leaning back and letting them fight it out. laughter labour's failure to actually make an explicit commitment to respect the referendum result is part of the reason we have not been able to deliver it and that is why getting sticky in places like sunderland. i wa nt sticky in places like sunderland. i want brexit to happen, i don't think barry does and i think that is being picked up. why don't we see what is going on in part of the world which is very much in favour of brexit, the midlands. we will be keeping an eye on walsall and this. we go to stoke. patrick, with a view on stoke and the other councils. let's start

with stoke and what you are picking up with stoke and what you are picking up there? in a way labour have heaped the pressure on themselves because they have chosen the city for the campaign launch. this is one of the traditional core labour voting areas which has flip—flopped in recent years. for the past five yea rs, in recent years. for the past five years, four years, since the tory high water mark of 2015, it has been run bya high water mark of 2015, it has been run by a coalition of sitting independence, local parties and conservatives. labour falling short ofan conservatives. labour falling short of an overall majority. to pick up that thing that laura was mentioning, a plague on both your houses, there is certainly that anger and frustration. in this city independence party, you have it seems to me the perfect vehicle of

that disaffection to express itself. albeit we expected the turnout to be much lower the 52% we saw last time these particular seats were contested four yea rs these particular seats were contested four years ago. obviously, although we talk about local issues in local elections, as your guests are saying, this is bound to be looked in terms of the parliamentary scene. stokes have switched from labour to the conservatives in 2017 so they will be an awful lot of interest to see how that sorts itself out, albeit the turnout, unofficially, in the area of 25%. another seat like that one, in walsall north, in the black country. it went from labour to the conservatives and again voters properly thinking at that time that the conservatives were a better bet

to deliver that but as i say anger and frustration definitely the mood here and from other parts of the country. tell us about some of the other councils in the west midlands that we think we should be really taking note of the results this evening and what that might tell us? i mentioned greens — there are two into the black country which are absolutely on a knife edge. walsall is run by the conservatives stop dudley, labour currently run the administration but they only have one more seat than the conservatives. another particularly interesting one is telford rickard, one relatively few controlled by labour outside the metropolitan area but labour have a majority ofjust one seat and, given that it is a whole council election, i think no—one is in a position to count their chickens. it is a unitary

authority and generally across the west midlands, coventry, one would have thought along with wolverhampton would be relatively safe for labour. one tory stronghold — will that be one of the places where the majority is a squeeze? could it be the liberal democrats getting some of the benefits in the area of the country and the town they have enjoyed success for ten yea rs, they have enjoyed success for ten years, the liberal democrats. at the moment the greens are the official opposition at csolley whole —— csolley. what i would like to do now is going to the conservative mp sabrina jenkin. bernard, ithink

is going to the conservative mp sabrina jenkin. bernard, i think it isa sabrina jenkin. bernard, i think it is a good one. —— sir bernard jenkin. what is your reading of how your parting is doing? it is the same the country over. the turnout isa same the country over. the turnout is a low and refined resistance to both the main parties on the doorstep. a lot of voters are resorting to protest parties, even the liberal democrats even though the liberal democrats even though the liberal democrats are very pro—eu and we are not expecting a particularly good result. doesn't theresa may's come up on the doorsteps? quite a lot. people are very disillusioned, whether they voted remain or leave, the country made a decision and the politicians have not implemented it. what is

your party telling you about perceptions of the prime minister on the doorstep? there is no... she still has a degree of personal sympathy but i think people think it is time for a change. they can see that she has lost the plot, has a very divided cabinet, that she is not in control of events and, suddenly amongst conservative activists and council candidates, there is almost universal feeling that it there is almost universal feeling thatitis there is almost universal feeling that it is time for her to move on. james cleverly i am sure would like to a nswer james cleverly i am sure would like to answer that. changing the prime minister is not going to necessarily help us deliver brexit. labour mps are sticking to the work they made an working for the deliver brexit. the prime minister said she is going through the first dayjust to

deliver it and if the labour party stops sitting on their hands and actually did what they promised at the 2017 election and sent, and voted to deliver brexit like they said they would when they were appealing for both then and... hang on, this is about your party. he is saying the prime minister has lost the plot. the vast majority of conservative mps who voted to deliver brexit, vast majority of labour mps... deliver brexit, vast majority of labour mps. .. that was not my question. sojenkins labour mps. .. that was not my question. so jenkins is labour mps. .. that was not my question. sojenkins is saying the prime minister has lost the plot and you are prime minister has lost the plot and you a re clearly prime minister has lost the plot and you are clearly furious colleagues have not voted for her deal and conservative saying she should leave. i'm a conservative until very recently, deputy chairman of the

conservative party, and i aim my criticism first and foremost for the mps who have reneged on the promise. and that's labour mps. can ijust. .. barry, give me a second. we're going to lose the line to sir bernard. bernard, just come back on that, and just to recognise the fact that, you know, you — and some of your collea g u es know, you — and some of your colleagues — were in a position where you could have supported a brexit deal, but you didn't. so what are you saying on the doorstep to voters who say "we wish we'd had brexit"? do you say, "of course, i was one of those who blocked it"? well, i'm saying that — i mean, incidentally, i didn't come on this programme to have a spat with my good friend and colleague, james, and i'm sorry that we weren't — i wasn't — warned about that. um, and, ah, of course he's got to defend the government line. but what i would say, hugh, is that the majority of conservative mps voted against extending article 50. and yet that's what the government chose to do. and

i think most voters are very disappointed, having been unable to agree on an extremely unsatisfactory deal that a great many conservative mps deal that a great many conservative m ps voted deal that a great many conservative mps voted against when it first appeared, it's very sad that the prime minister decided that staying in the european union for longer — instead of leaving — was — and now she's negotiating with tony blair — not tony blair, withjeremy corbyn — which will make the deal even worse — this doesn't look, um, look like a sensible way to leave the european union. i'm afraid that's what people are saying. james, union. i'm afraid that's what people are saying.james, um, union. i'm afraid that's what people are saying. james, um, you're doing are saying. james, um, you're doing a valiantjob to defend the government and i'm sorry... i'll never criticise bernard. he's a longstanding friend. as i say, my criticism is directly and squarely aimed at the labour mps who promised to deliver brexit and, as i say — andi to deliver brexit and, as i say — and i won't stop saying it, don't worry ‘ and i won't stop saying it, don't worry — and have spectacularly failed to do so. i'm just going to thank sir bernard jenkin forjoining

us. thank you so much for staying on in colchester thank you very much. sir bernard jenkin, conservative mp. we're going to have a quick, um, news bulletin... no...! ..in a second, barry, but if you can be concise with this point, go for it. the point is simply this — james is totally confusing delivering brexit with delivering the deal that has been criticised not only by most of the conservative party, but by every party across parliament. not true. not true. your frontbench... party across parliament. not true. not true. your frontbench. .. you've had your say. just let me reply to it. your frontbench said there was nothing wrong with withdrawing...” know you don't want to hear it but the point is, you, as a brexit minister, should understand that we are in there trying to bail you guys out. we are now trying to negotiate with you because your prime minister — who's lost control of her party, who's lost any chance of getting her deal through parliament — has had to

come to us and say, "please, i now need to listen to the ideas that you've been putting forward about how we can actually get a compromise that will work for most people in this country and will get through our parliament. " and this country and will get through our parliament." and that's the truth of it. don't tell us that we're not trying to deliver brexit. you're not. that was our manifesto commitment and we're trying to do it. you're not. but we're trying to do it in line with our manifesto, and our manifesto is very clear — we wouldn't have the sort of bad brexit that you lot managed to negotiate, and we certainly wouldn't have a no—deal. and that's why we've kept that position, and we're trying to go in there to get a compromise. so, joe's on one side of the argument — way over on the remain. you're on the other side. bernard's right on the other side. bernard's right on the extreme on the other side because he would very happily go out with no—deal, as he'sjust told you. but the point is, you can't get your deal through. we are trying to get a compromise that will bring the british people back together, because the lesson that john curtis was telling us about is this country

has been divided because of the stupidity of your previous prime minister in having this whole thing in the first place. labour said they had nothing — labour said there was nothing wrong with the withdrawal agreement element. they had concerns about the political declaration. they said there was nothing wrong with the withdrawal agreement. we took the political declaration... and your prime minister said... hang on. your prime minister said the two we re on. your prime minister said the two were inextricably linked, and you know it. we took the political declaration out. labour didn't vote for it. the labourfrontbench have been explicit, clear and honest. they don't want to deliver brexit. they don't want to deliver brexit. they want to bring down the government. they want a general election. they've said so. jo, your perspective? look, barry'sjust said it all - perspective? look, barry'sjust said it all — what labour are trying to do right now is bail out the conservative government to deliver brexit. and you've said you want to deliver brexit. yet labour party members — labour party voters — actually are saying they want a people's vote with the chance for

the public to look at the deal and say, "is this a good deal or a bad deal? should we stay in the european union?" deal? should we stay in the european union? " will you stop deal? should we stay in the european union?" will you stop brexit, as the labour party, with the opportunity to make those people happy? will you stop brexit, yes or no? yes. so you're not trying to deliver brexit? i'll answer you, jo. the you're not trying to deliver brexit? i'llansweryou, jo. the nec you're not trying to deliver brexit? i'll answer you, jo. the necjust passed the policy of the party that said, "if we are landed with the stupid deal that they negotiated or a no—deal, we will have — we will absolutely — opt for a people's vote. " that's exactly absolutely — opt for a people's vote." that's exactly what our nec has said, unequivocally. unequivocally, it said that in those circumstances... does labour want to stop brexit, yes or no? we have been a remain party which accepted the result of the referendum. we're now trying to deliver on the result of the referendum. but we will not do — we will not have brexit on any terms. and that's the mistake that james has made. he thinks that whatever he calls brexit is what everybody else has got to sign up to. it's not. and those were the red

lines that we laid down. it must not destroyjobs in this country. it must not... that's a nonsense. it is a nonsense. there's no scenario where brexit isn't bad forjobs and is good for workers' rights. this is absolute fantasy. should we say that's the end of round 1? laughter we can all take a breath. thank you very much. at least we've had some enlivenment in the first part of the programme...! enlivenment in the first part of the programme... ! this is enlivenment in the first part of the programme...! this is normally the dull hour! laughter it's never dull with you three! any footage of ballot boxes... it's 12:40am in the morning — not dull at all! the bbc scoreboard, let's have all! the bbc scoreboard, let's have a look at it... ..to quieten these people down a bit. that's the councillor count — the tories down two, labour down 20, the lib dems up 10. by the way, the greens are up six at the moment, asjohn curtis was telling us earlier, it's very worth keeping an eye on the greens

as well, to see the patterns of voting. +6 for the greens. let's have an update and join ben bland. hello. here is a summary of the bbc news: votes are being counted in local elections across england and northern ireland. elections have been held for 248 english councils, six mayors, and 11 councils in northern ireland. jessica parker reports. polling card in hand, the prime minister heads in to vote. the picture of these local elections will start to take shape over the coming hours. voters have been taking their messages into churches, town halls, schools, community centres across the country. now, it's time to take that message in — the contest is over, and the counting begins. for candidates and campaigners, the nervous wait — thousands of seats are up for grabs at 248 councils across england, six mayoral contests too, and all 11

councils in northern ireland. this isa councils in northern ireland. this is a big set of local elections. parties will be watching closely, testing the waters after a tumultuous time in westminster. but local elections, of course, are about picking the people who'll run local services set your council tax, and decide how to spend it. early results are trickling in, delivering the verdict one ballot box after another... they were certainly eager to get going in swindon — it's democracy in energetic action — and energy‘s what's needed. it's a long nightahead... the prime minister says the case is closed after the defence secretary, gavin williamson, was dramatically sacked on wednesday. it was over lea ked sacked on wednesday. it was over leaked details from a national security council meeting. on thursday, opposition parties insisted that there should be a police investigation into whether

the official secrets act was breached. gavin williamson continues to deny telling the daily telegraph about discussions over whether the chinese firm huawei should help to build the uk's 5g mobile network. the prime minister has said that she now considers that this matter has been closed and the cabinet secretary does not consider it necessary to refer it to the police, but we would of course cooperate fully should the police themselves consider that an investigation were necessary. the prime minister has sacked the secretary of state for defence because she believes there is compelling evidence that he has committed a crime. but despite that, she does not believe he should face a criminal investigation. where is the justice in that? the canadian aerospace firm bombardier has announced it will sell off its plants in belfast as pa rt sell off its plants in belfast as part of a worldwide restructuring programme. the company is northern ireland's largest manufacturer. it

employs around 3,500 people to build aircraft wings and other parts. bombardier says it's committed to finding the right buyer. unions insist that the government should step in if one can't be found. the governor of the bank of england says interest rates could go up more frequently than expected in the next few years. frequently than expected in the next few yea rs. they‘ re frequently than expected in the next few years. they're currently being held at 0.75%. the market had been expecting just one or two interest rate increases by 2021, but mark carney said, if brexit is resolved and inflation and growth continue to pick up, then more increases are likely. facebook has banned several faff—right extremist figures and groups, calling them "dangerous". among those removed is nation of islam founder louis farrakhan, the former editor of breitbart news, milo yiannopoulos, and alexjones, the conspiracy theorist and founder of infowa rs. the conspiracy theorist and founder of infowars. in a statement, facebook said it has always banned individuals and organisations promoting hate and violence,

regardless of ideology. india's mobilising mass transport to evacuate about 800,000 residents and tourists from low—lying parts of the southeastern coast in the face of cyclone phonny. it's expected to make landfall on friday before moving towards bangladesh. authorities in the state of andhra pradesh and tamil nadu are warning of winds up to 200kph. that's it from me. now back to election 2019. music plays welcome back to the, ah, bbc‘s election centre. 18 councils declared. no—one's changed hands yet. we've got more than 200 to come, and some 300 councillors elected so far. but we have more than 8,000 to go. so, still early stages. but we're getting tidbits, little whispers and little hints from various parts of the country.

so, laura, whatare from various parts of the country. so, laura, what are you listening to? from contacts from different parts of the country, a couple of very positive signs, potentially, for lib dems in st albans, where they think they might do well, maybe even they think they might do well, maybe eve n ta ke they think they might do well, maybe even take out the council leader. that's the kind of part of the country where parties have to be able to punch through — that kind of really sort of bellwether area in the south—east — obviously a commuter town into london. lib dems also looking good in north norfolk, i'm told. interestingly, barnsley and werral, two councils labour isn't likely to lose but seem to be having a difficult night. the council leader in barnsley himself has told our colleague up there that it's looking very difficult for them there. why? brexit. mm-hmm. interesting. there's an extra note there on wyrall we were told earlier — labour having lost three seats there, which is enough for the council to go into overall control. that brexit factor there again... just on the lib dems in st albans

and north norfolk, jo — does that tally with what you're being told? absolutely. st albans — i was there in the campaignjust a few absolutely. st albans — i was there in the campaign just a few weeks ago. we've got a great team there led by daisy cooper, who has got a great chance of being the next mp for the seat. the team there was just so positive, up—beat, and of course north norfolk — the area where my colleague, norman lam, is the member of parliament — an area quite different in its profile in terms of remain—leave. for all the brexit discussion we've had in a quite, ah, heated wayjust now, actually, as lib dems, we're making gains and being able to punch through in both remain areas and also in leave areas as well. so that message is resonating. it's obviously about brexit, absolutely, we're the party that wants to stop brexit, but it's also about what our local community champions are doing on the ground and other issues as well. you mentioned leave areas.

hartlip, of course, is one of those. as we understand it, labour have lost control there in hartlip. as we understand it, labour have lost controlthere in hartlip. we think this is the first loss of the night for labour — they've been in control there since 2010. independence have been quite strong here for quite some time. different groups of independent counsellors and they are in the majority. let me show you the seat changes. labour losing five seeds and of those have been divided between four independent counsellors and one ukip. a labour loss and that will hurt them. we controlled 1696. the

conservatives had three and the independent had 14 between them so i headed down as overall control so i do not think that is accurate. our understanding was that it was a labour majority three previously. not my understanding. you should be winning those, barry. we will settle it. according to the figures we had it. according to the figures we had it was a narrow labour majority of three from last time. not your figures? my figures are we had 16 labourers, three conservatives, three others and 11 independence so no overall control even though labour was the largest party. we will clarify it, certainly. i have to say, the figures were quite clear. maybe we were basing them on

different things. if they have been any movement since then, for example. labour may have lost majority because of resignations. we are dancing around the pen. with nine years into government, labour should be mopping these up uncomfortably and they are not. should be mopping these up uncomfortably and they are notm that fair? i certainly would like to be swinging it the other way. these are precisely the areas of the country in which i think brexit is playing out and that is where we. the national overlaying of the local. but with the government in such chaos, should it not be that the main opposition in westminster should be scooping up people's frustration and is looking like a good and credible option and early reports are suggesting that is not

the case. you make a fair point. let me try to give you an honest answer. labour's message is actually trying to appeal to both sides and in that senseit to appeal to both sides and in that sense it is complex, on brexit. so it is not. brexit in different ways from the conservatives, remain from the lib dems. our message is we want a brexit but if we cannot get that... hold it for a second. let's see where we stand on the scoreboard. welcome back to the bbc election centre where i would like to have a look at the main scoreboard we have right now to show exactly where we are in terms of the election of

individual counsellors and, as you can see, labour 147, individual counsellors and, as you can see, labour147, down individual counsellors and, as you can see, labour 147, down 27. the lib dems have gained 17 already. the greens gaining five. i think what we are seeing at this early stage of the night is what politicians privately feared is that both parties, labour and tory, would be punished for the chaos and turbulence and gridlock in westminster. local elections play ha rd westminster. local elections play hard in terms of issues that matter around the country, schools, transports but no question about it, the two big parties do seem to be losing out because of the individual agonies over the exit process and

the smaller parties, whether it is the smaller parties, whether it is the lib dems, the greens, appear to be benefiting from that. we were talking earlier about swindon. it is a conservative hold and it is one of the results we can talk about. these are some of the early results. swindon has just are some of the early results. swindon hasjust come in are some of the early results. swindon has just come in and are some of the early results. swindon hasjust come in and it is a conservative hold. they are still counting. there are still three seats to the clay but the conservatives have got over the winning post. 29, labour on 23. liberal democrats onto. let me show you the share change. this is interesting. this council very fought over by labour and conservatives. although this is a conservative hold, there share has gone down and labour has gone up. you will notice ukip down by 8% and it looks as though a lot of that

vote has gone to labour and the liberal democrats. one more that i wa nt to liberal democrats. one more that i want to show you. they are still counting in wirral. there are still eight to declare. labour on 29. conservatives on 18. now, although they are still counting, what is very interesting again as the share change. look at that. at the moment labour down by 14% stop the greens up labour down by 14% stop the greens up by labour down by 14% stop the greens up by 12%. something very interesting happening in this council suggesting that perhaps, even though it is early stages, perhaps it is an area where labour isa perhaps it is an area where labour is a strong, that vote share is coming down. there is the local

issue in wirral which is the council has been building on greenbelt and actually that is reflected in the fa ct actually that is reflected in the fact that our vote has gone down and lost to the greens because of the protection of greenbelt and it has beena very protection of greenbelt and it has been a very contentious issue locally so i think we're looking at locally so i think we're looking at local factors. it is locally so i think we're looking at localfactors. it is a big green surge and it ties in with the other green gains. it may be one of the emerging themes that feels very strong by the morning that people are going elsewhere. they are looking at labour and tory traditional areas and they are doing something else. a quick word on swindon, with that result, that is exactly the kind of area where labour would have wanted and should be making progress if they are to appear they are on the march that they have, no pun intended, momentum

on their way to downing street during a general election. we are not ina during a general election. we are not in a general election, of course, but those are the kind of areas where party members and campaigners look to. a huge loss of employment in that town which would affect thousands of people, many, many families and for the conservative council not to be punished for that is quite noticeable. what is your reading? i do not have a reading, the honest answer. i have been to swindon re ce ntly answer. i have been to swindon recently and spoken to people there. it is an area where we would have hoped and, maybe not necessarily expected, hoped to have done better. sad that we have not. you have held onto exeter and harlow. by the way.

we were discussing hartlepool before. based on the figures given to us by the local council and by the press association we had hartlepool done as a small labour majority. in fact, the information i haveis majority. in fact, the information i have is that because of resignations by labour counsellors got back that may have been what was the case previously and at the last election but because of the resignations there was no overall control. that information is more recent but that is the cause of the confusion. what would you read into swindon because swindon is an area that clearly we all recognise, in westminster terms, all recognise, in westminster terms, a bit ofa all recognise, in westminster terms, a bit of a bellwether area. it is

significant in terms of the balance of power between conservatives and labour in that part of england. what do you read into it? i didn't get to visit swindon this year for these campaigns buti visit swindon this year for these campaigns but i have campaigned down there previously. i know that the local mps were very closely with the local mps were very closely with the local counsellors, they work very, very ha rd local counsellors, they work very, very hard and a very engaged with the community and this is going to sound boring, boring, boring but they complain relentlessly on local issues. beans, parks, counciltax andi issues. beans, parks, counciltax and i think they have been rewarded for good old fashion grassroots craft and i am glad they are because they are a really good team down there and i think that has got to be pa rt there and i think that has got to be part of it. as i say, this is a traditional bellwether area and one we we re traditional bellwether area and one we were really worried about. it is

a kind of place where, hand on heart, we were expecting the labour party potentially because of national issues and nine years in government, the kind of place we would expect them to pick up a number of council seats and they haven't so we are very pleased. less good news, you have lost control of busselton. figures are kicking around and we were likely to lose some in the region of a thousand counsellors stop on those numbers, u nfortu nately counsellors stop on those numbers, unfortunately that wasn't kind of place. i have been campaigning there and we knew it was very tired. it a disappointment. let's have a look at the figures. the figures have just come in. this is a conservative loss

at basildon. it was conservative and before that it was a hung council. conservatives on 20. one ukip counsellor. looking at the seat change and you can see the conservatives lost two. that is basildon, conservative loss. what i would like to do and rita, thank you very much and we will have another chat about basildon anything. we are looking at the key wards which tellers something about the wider picture. 135 have declared so far so i would like to have a look at those figures in terms of the percentage share of the vote and what that tells us. just have a look at

this... this is by no means complete. the big game clearly right now the lib dems and the greens. based on those figures i would like to bring john curtis are back in. your thoughts at this point? what we have simply done today with these figures is to add the total number of votes that each party has got into the wards so far and compared them to 2015, in respect of, for example, of whether the ukip have fought the ward again or not. that decline in the ukip vote is somewhat misleading. yes, it is probably going to be true that in the wards ukip fault in this year,

it is going to be down a bit but down in what it was 2016, 2018. ukip are doing rather well where they stood. liberal democrats, certainly they are defending a very poor baseline in 2015 but even if you compare the vote to what they did last year, it looks like the liberal democrat vote is up so another piece of evidence that the vote is fracturing across different parties. perhaps the most remarkable set of figures is the greens. in those are simple role figures the greens vote is arm. if you look at the wards where they have been fighting, the vote is clearly well up. conversely both conservatives and labour losing ground as compared to last year but what he would have noticed is that so far the labour vote is down more

than the conservative vote even though we are comparing it to the 2015 resort went labour were already well behind the conservatives and so far this is the one really remarkable surprise of the night that the labour party are apparently doing very badly. it may be that it is going to be part of a wider piece stop it looks as though they both labour and the conservatives are performing relatively poorly in those awards where they were trying to defend the seed. what we may be discovering at the end of the day, it is not so much a battle between labour and conservatives but a battle between incumbents and insurgents and a better way incumbents, whether conservative or labour, have been struggling to hang onto their share the vote. john, many thanks. just some whispers, laura just add on to what

john was saying, the tories have taken a john was saying, the tories have ta ken a couple john was saying, the tories have taken a couple of seats from labour in bolton, again the kind of seat labour need to win a general election to win a majority. labour having a difficult time in ashfield in the midlands and the tories also making some difficult times in stoke. of course, they were very strong vote leave areas and just to underline these gains we are seeing from the greens and the lib dems, not just strong remain from the greens and the lib dems, notjust strong remain areas, you might think it is natural that people who would go to the greens are lib dems, we both want another referendum, but it does not seem to be uniform pattern, it seems to be happening in lots of different pockets. very interesting. apparently, it looks like jacob rees—mogg is now going to hand the liberal democrat councillor, they are likely to lose to the liberal democrat councillor, notjust in the main areas. can we talk about tanned

ridge in surrey? my understanding is that the conservatives have lost control of tandridge in surrey. —— tandridge. if we just turn that into the gains and losses, there you see the gains and losses, there you see the picture. the tories down, the independence up four. that is quite interesting, isn't it? let's go to the count and talk to our correspondent there. tell us what is going on, what is your understanding? well, of course, tandridge has always been traditionally a conservative stronghold. they have held a majority here since the year 2000 last year, that dramatically and drastically changed when they lost eight of their seats, leaving them with an overall majority ofjust one seat and we know tonight that the conservatives have already lost five

of their seats, the lib dems gaining one of those seats and the rest going to the independence and there isa going to the independence and there is a much a sense of the council leader, martin fisher, who i spoke to earlier, that they're going to be a lot more losses to come and it is not going to be a good night for the conservatives at all. lastly, those losses were put down to a local housing problem, residents were concerned that thousands of homes are being built on green belt land but of course, now this year, brexit is coming into play but the conservatives say they fear that that could also contribute to some of the losses. we know that the local residents, 52% of them voted to leave the eu impaired to 47% devoted to remain, so perhaps that is coming into play here. we have quite a few hours left, it is expected to declare here around 2:30am, so it is still early days and will not of course know until 2:30am whether the conservatives have actually suffered their first defeat here in nearly two decades.

very interesting, thank you very much again for the update on tandridge. let's have a look at one of the other significant results that we need to just take stock on and that is i think wirrall, isn't it? let's talk to the figures at wirrall. that has now gone into no overall control, it was labour and labour have lost the council and it has now become a hung council stop you can see that they are still counting, there are two to declare but labour have failed to retain control of this council. these are the bold figures, live on 30 seats, the bold figures, live on 30 seats, the democrats on six, and green and independent have the piece. the seachange he was really interesting, so labour down four, the conservatives and liberal democrats getting one a piece, two to the greens and let's take a look at the share change, painful for greens and let's take a look at the

share change, painfulfor labour. -1496 share change, painfulfor labour. —14% there and the greens up by 12%, thatis —14% there and the greens up by 12%, that is a really, really interesting result there. i just want to show you one more result, brentwood in essex, which is a conservative hold. the conservatives have held brentwood with a majority of three and you can see the seat, the seat divisions there, but if i show you the seachange, look at that. the conservatives actually lost five seats and liberal democrats have gained seats and this is even starker, isn't that interesting? the share change there, conservatives 4296, share change there, conservatives 42%, sorry, ithink share change there, conservatives 42%, sorry, i think i got the wrong graph. there we go. conservatives down 8%, lib dems up 22%. graph. there we go. conservatives down 896, lib dems up 2296. rita, thank you very much and interesting when you went to the wirrall figures to see that you keep were down by

796, to see that you keep were down by 7%, because of course in other parts of the country, it is notable that the key performance has been stronger than that and there are certainly pockets of support. —— you keep. what i would like to do is bring in mike from ukip. —— ukip. how are you doing this morning? well, we're doing very, very well. alvaro cherries up, we have people standing here as candidates but they are taking a lot of votes, i think that taking those mate away both in the labour party and from the tories. what you make of the performance generally, mike, in the sense that you are fielding so many fewer candidates as a party across england in these elections, so what other challenges there? -- from both. well, yeah, we have got 14 or

i think 20 candidates but that is travel what we fielded last year. alvaro cherries going up, we can say that, we have taken three seats in sunderland, we have taken extra seats in derby. —— our vote share is going up. what we have seen is we're back again and we're really happy, i'm quite happy with our results. despite the fact that as, i think you would agree, the perceptions of the party in the last few years have been ones of turmoil and chaos really, not just among been ones of turmoil and chaos really, notjust among the leadership that among the membership as well. yes, it has been. we have had two years of turmoil. we are now back on the rise again, our membership is up, we are financially backin membership is up, we are financially back in the black and we're now on the field, during candidates for local elections, we are fielding to the westminster elections and of course, we have got the european elections, which we did not think we would have to stand candidates but

here we are again, standing european candidates. we will stand in that andi candidates. we will stand in that and i believe we will do very, very well. it has got to be, i mean it is a bit ofa well. it has got to be, i mean it is a bit of a challenge, given that so many of the people who have been elected ukip counsellors in the past have ended up leaving the party and they have ended up not fulfilling they have ended up not fulfilling the promises that they made initially in party terms, so how confident are you that the people elected today... —— councillors. confident are you that the people elected today... -- councillors. so, i missed a bit of that, there is some cheering going on behind me, so i missed a bit of what you are saying. i am saying that because so many of your former counsellors and ended up abandoning party in going elsewhere, how confident can you be that the one select today will be any better? because i think that some of those candidates that have left us did so because of some of the poor leadership that we had. we have a good leadership team, which i am one of those in leadership team and we are now, as i say, the membership is rising because of

accident, because of this poor deal that theresa may is trying to get to. they are saying now that we are a party that is electable and we're on the rise and we're doing very well now and we will do well in the future. i read in one case, comment from one of your former colleagues that were about to be steamrolled into by nigel farage in his new party, what are your thoughts on that? well, where is nigel? he is not sending any candidates tonight, his party has no structure whatsoever, it is a leader who dictates everybody and as i say, where are they tonight? in local elections that mattered to a lot of people around the country, what happens in their wards, their streets, in the towns and cities, where is nigel farage and this party? well, you will find them at the local european elections, won't you? if that is the case, you will

get the challenge at that point. well, bring it on. iam get the challenge at that point. well, bring it on. i am up to the challenge, as i say i did not believe i would be standing again as an mep. we are 100% committed to getting brexit, to leaving the european union. theresa may promised 108 times that we would leave the european union. we're not doing that, we standing again to say that we're going to campaign and make sure that we honour 17.4 million people and leave the european union. iamup people and leave the european union. i am up for the fight, i am up for the campaign. when you were campaigning on these local elections, with people talking to you, honestly, about brexit or were they talking to you about local issues? well, a lot of people were talking about brexit and we're talking about brexit and we're talking about brexit and we're talking about betrayal of the establishment parties, but yes, it isa establishment parties, but yes, it is a local election, it is local issues and it always will be, is what it should be. a councillor should represent the constituents on local issues and that is what we

have been talking about, we have a party that has local policies and i think many people are seeing that we are genuine, honest party, that represent the working man and woman of this country. good of you to join us, thank you very much. michael from ukip there in grimsby. what i would like to do now is because over to sunderland, where of course labour in control but they lost 12 seats there in the lead is graham miller, good morning, thank you for joining us. what happened to you in sunderland? i joining us. what happened to you in sunderland ? i know joining us. what happened to you in sunderland? i know you are in control but what happened with the loss of seats? —— leader. control but what happened with the loss of seats? -- leader. we lost ten seats in my view on it is very, very simple. sunderland voted as a city to leave in june very simple. sunderland voted as a city to leave injune 2016 and having had a labour message across the city for members of parliament saying that we need to be having a people's vote in a second referendum, people in sunderland have said we're just not accepting that in the labour party and i have

lost ten councillors tonight because of that exit situation here, the brexit message has stepped into local politics and that is the outcome. well, i may ask your colleague to comment on that, but what would your message to baby? my message today would be that at the end of the day, we have to be very, very careful about what we're saying with regard to brexit and we have large leave constituencies and we had that message going directly to the people, but we believe that we wa nt the people, but we believe that we want a people's referendum, we want people's vote, when the people have said no, we want to leave. we made that quite hereby 63% to 37% in 2016 if you do not enough that democracy, we will not vote for you and i think we will not vote for you and i think we have seen that massive protest vote on that issue tonight and it is a lwa ys vote on that issue tonight and it is always local councillors that pay

for it because it tends to be, it happens in local elections and hopefully the party will learn from it and we will not make this mistake again. butjust to be clear, you are seeing no referendum, no other people's vote, as it is called, under any circumstances, that is what you are saying?” under any circumstances, that is what you are saying? i am saying, this is my view, somebody who voted to remain, as somebody who is a democrat, is a strong, long—standing, serving member of the labour party. when you give people a vote, when you say that i am voting to leave or remain in you make that simple choice and parliament that question, people expect you to then deliver on the outcome of that and we need to be seen as a party to be trying to deliver that outcome. if we don't, people obviously and clearly ta ke we don't, people obviously and clearly take it that they will not vote for us, they do not trust us, and it is very, very difficult to get local matters, local policies,

to get people to vote for you and the labour party is all about local issues and dealing with local matters and helping people, but in this issue, we have lost ten counsellors to the conservatives, the liberal democrats, ukip and the green party, clearly people have decided to vote against us across the city and it is absolutely in my view down to that fact. —— councillors. the people voting for the lib dems or the greens clearly will not be exercised about people ‘s vote in the way that you say that others are. i think it is a tactical vote. people have gone to her best to vote two to basically say no to the labour party and i think that is what we are seeing. let me just bring in barry, thank you very much. just say, my commiserations to you, and, you know, i really sympathise with everything that you've said. it isa with everything that you've said. it is a complex message that the labour party's putting out, but we have absolutely — as you rightly said —

we committed ourselves in our manifesto to delivering on the referendum result, but we always said that we wouldn't do it in the way that the tories wanted, we wouldn't do it in a way that meant a no—deal, and so you're right — i understand that. and when people think that, actually, democracy is going to be introduced in the way you've talked about, naturally a city like sunderland is going to be, rightly, upset about that, because they were very clear — i think it was the highest vote for leave in the country, actually. so i completely get it, and i know — as you do — that the chances of people who have been voting labour all their lives but who are disaffected then voting for the tories in that situation in sunderland — it is highly unlikely. sol situation in sunderland — it is highly unlikely. so i completely understand your reading of it, that these are protest votes. there's an element of cyclical voting there.

we've lost councillors to the conservatives because those wards — some of those wards — migrate from the labour party to the conservative party and back again. yes, you have an element of that in there. i'm not arguing that. but when you lose so many councillors — and all i picked up many councillors — and all i picked upfor many councillors — and all i picked up for six weeks on the door is that we basically — labour members were say —— labour members were saying they cannot and will note vote for us they cannot and will note vote for us because they are not seeing that their vote to leave is being supported by the labour party. that is something that we need to be aware of, and we need to absolutely think very carefully about what we do next. and it gives me, as leader of the council with the group, a task now to work out what we do going forward. cos we have to continue delivering services — which is what we do — and that is what the labour party is all about, and we're very good at it. but we cannot ignore this message. it hasn't come

from out left of centre — this is clear across every ward and all three cops in the city that people have been very unhappy with that position. as leader of the council, i've got to say this, because i am here to represent the people of the city — we need to be seen to be democrats here, we need to be seen doing what the people voted for. totally respect that, and my commiserations to you and the councillors that have lost, and pass on our best wishes... basically, barry, he's calling for a change of policy, isn't he? thank you very much, barry. i think policy, isn't he? thank you very much, barry. ithink what policy, isn't he? thank you very much, barry. i think what he's calling for is absolute clarity, which is absolutely right. and that — graham, all i would say to you is that's why we are in, at the moment, with the government, trying to negotiate the sort of brexit that, actually, labour members would recognise is going to protect those jobs in sunderland, protect those just—p in—time supply chains that, particularly, you depend on forjobs

up particularly, you depend on forjobs up there, and that's why we're doing that. if we're going to leave — and we've said, like you, i was remain — we've said, like you, i was remain — we said we accepted the result, but we said we accepted the result, but we must do it in a way that protects people's jobs and their livelihoods. that's what we're trying to do. mr miller, thank you very much for joining us. it's good to have you talking to us today. the leader of the sunderland council there. a clear message...! the sunderland council there. a clear message. . .! certainly was. barry, seeing you respect him and passing on commiserations, but he's clearly asking you to do something different. yeah. he said, "people will not vote for us — they will not trust us — if we, as a party, don't make brexit happen." he's not saying, "please see if you can work something out with the tories that would be better for something out with the tories that would be betterfor labour voters and for families around the country." he's and for families around the country. " he's pleading and for families around the country." he's pleading with you to get this done and not to ignore the referendum result. i know that you're one of the people in the shadow cabinet who actually is nervous about offering another referendum — you've made that clear yourself on many occasions. is it time for labour to be clear about

the fact that your policy, first and foremost, is to try to deliver the referendum result, and then only if that goes wrong somehow to have another public vote? laura, you have just articulated exactly what the nec said our policy is earlier this week. i'm not quite sure that's the case. i've just quoted to you a labour council leader saying, "people will not vote for us — they will not trust us." no, but the situation that you've said — "we should make it clear that we're trying to deliver on the referendum result to leave the european union. we should be clear about that. and only if we cannot get a deal that is — not no—deal and not the deal that is going to stymie those veryjobs in sunderland — should we then... but what's going on at the moment if people aren't understanding that policy if you have a labour council

leader pleading... you know perfectly well why. well, tell our viewers. tell our viewers. you know it and they know it. because actually, many people in our party who are members of the party actually — like me — wanted to remain in the first place. they campaigned to remain. and actually, some of them still would like to remain. and their voice has also been heard. and that's why, if a party is seen to be speaking with two voices, it's very difficult to communicate that, actually, what the policy of the party is is a complex policy, and it is conditional. it says, "first and foremost, we want to respect the democratic will of the people. if we cannot do it in such a way that it's going to protect their livelihoods, then — then — we will go back, if it's got to bea then — we will go back, if it's got to be a tory way, we will actually then go back to the people and allow them to choose. " then go back to the people and allow them to choose." you've got to pick a side on this. laughs we have. the side of brexit? no, the side of uniting our country and

getting the people who originally voted — like me and you — for remain, and — i can't rememberwhat james did in the first place, but certainly now to leave — for all of them to say, "actually, this isn't exactly what i voted for, but it's a compromise that we can all live with and that we can see respects democracy, but also keeps people in their jobs. " democracy, but also keeps people in theirjobs.‘ but barry, what you're really acknowledging there — aren't you? — is that your party's leadership is not explaining what you think is the right policy clearly enough. it's difficult to articulate and it's not getting through? look, ijust said to you - i think that there are many people in the party — members of the party — who are passionate about remaining. they believe that, actually, this is the only thing that matters. and you're letting them down. people in the country too, barry. you're letting them down. in fact, it's not the only thing that matters, because democracy matters. there are two competing principles here. and we're

trying to hold them intention. these guys want to opt for one — jo's just said it. you've got to choose. you've either got to opt for people's livelihoods or you've got to opt for democracy. we're trying to opt for democracy. we're trying to say there is a way to reconcile them. and we believe there is. and that's a complex message. and that's why it's difficult to get that across. and i really sympathise with people like graham in sunderland, because they are in the most leave constituency in the country, and they have suffered as a result of that message being one that is, you know, about reconciliation rather than simplesting, "yes — leave" or "yes — remain. " than simplesting, "yes — leave" or "yes - remain." the bottom line, barry — he's finding that message not just a hard barry — he's finding that message notjust a hard sell, but an almost impossible sell. that's what he was saying. huw, you know equally in other seats in the country... of course. ..it will swing the other

way. of course. but that guy's lost 10 councillors. that's the reason we had him here. absolutely. this is why we are trying to hold these things in tension. but there are two important principles, and we are the only party that is trying to — trying to — be faithful to both of them. well, jo's been, ah, just underlining the fact that, um, she's got a clear view on brexit and how to proceed with it. i'm just wondering — is that translating into the lib dem performance, rita?m is, huw, if these early results are anything to go by. we had professor sirjohn curtice earlier saying it looked, on the basis of the early results, as if the two main parties we re results, as if the two main parties were suffering and that some of their votes were going to the liberal democrats, among others. and in all of these eight councils here — although some of them are still counting, the ones in white are still counting — the share of the liberal democrat vote has gone up. let me show you a couple of these.

liverpool was labour. has been held by labour. and it was unassailable. it was always going to be labour. you can see the bald figures there. what's really interesting is the share change. that's taken me to something else... there you go, that's what i was after. labour down by 6%, the liberal democrats up by 9%. and the greens clearly benefiting as well. conservatives down by 2%. ican conservatives down by 2%. i can show you something similar in a very different council — havant in hampshire was conservative and has been held by the conservatives. similarly, it was an unassailable council. but if we look at the share change again here — look at that. conservatives down by 7%. labour down by 2%. liberal democrats up by 1196. down by 2%. liberal democrats up by 11%. so, behind the bald figures and

results, there's some very interesting shifts going on. indeed! rita, thank you very much. jo, rita, thank you very much. jo, some thoughts on those — when we see that lib dem performance there, for example, in havant? what's interesting is we all come intease election night programmes with our views of which seats we were particularly looking to and thought would do well. we're talking about areas here — we've got fantastic teams there, i'm sure, but they were not on our list of places that we thought our vote share was going to go thought our vote share was going to 9° up thought our vote share was going to 9° up by thought our vote share was going to go up by 11%, necessarily. i think what we're seeing is that message is resonating. and clearly, where we've had huge resources, we're seeing very significant gains. but in places which have not been traditional lib dem heartlands, necessarily, then we're also seeing the public responding to that clarity of that message and that we're setting out very, very clearly voting for lib dems, you get local community champions, and also we have this message that a vote for the lib dems is a vote to stop brexit. with the european elections coming up in three weeks' time, that

isa coming up in three weeks' time, that is a springboard going into that. and your loss of 7% of the vote there, james, tells you what, in a place like hava nt? there, james, tells you what, in a place like havant? well, it's often the case with councils where we are in control, we're very strongly in control, that there are local issues. i don't know enough about that seat to know whether it's local issues or whether it's national issues. as i say, it's probably a blend of both and, from a very, very low base that the lib dems had in 2015 - low base that the lib dems had in 2015 — frankly, you would expect big results. as i said earlier in the night, you would expect big results from them as part of the natural, perhaps, pendulum effect that you get in local government elections. we're being told in st albans that you've lost three seats so far as conservatives. big swing to the lib dems. we were mentioning them earlier. so the tories very likely to lose control of that. a few other whispers from around the place —

labour feeling optimistic in trafford. a key place in the north—west — hoping to make gains in southampton too and also expecting the tories to lose south end council — perhaps the council leader losing his seat. one tiny point that might be worth making — could have a complexion on these results — eu nationals in the uk can vote in these elections. maybe that might be having an impact on some of the pro—eu parties. who knows? having an impact on some of the pro-eu parties. who knows? you mentioned trafford. why don't i go back to talk to nina, who's in trafford for us? nina, what are the signals there? ah, we've not had any of the results in from trafford but so far, huw, across the north—west, it's not been a good night for labour. when the night started, they had about 70% of the councillors across the north—west. they've held onto some areas we might expect — chorley, wigan, liverpool as rita was just talking about — but significant losses. you talked about wirral earlier. they've lost two seats there to the greens, one to

the liberal democrats. there's a sort of civil war happening within the labour party over on wirral — that could be at play there. four labour councillors there have already left to go independent. in bolton in greater manchester, they've lost three seats to the conservatives and one to a local party. kirsley has been labourfor 100 years, and has now switched to becoming independent. if we look at south manchester, in stockport, this was a key liberal democrat target. they voted remain. they were one of the three parts of greater manchester where they voted remain. the liberal democrats so far tonight have made one gain from labour. that means they only need to make two more to be neck—and—neck with them on that council in part of greater manchester. ironically, here we are in trafford and the part of greater manchester, the borough that was under conservative control from 2004 until last year, but both of the main parties here expect labour to ta ke full main parties here expect labour to take full control tonight. at the moment, they havejust take full control tonight. at the moment, they have just one take full control tonight. at the moment, they havejust one more councillor than the conservatives.

no overall control, but they think that labour, tonight, will take it. what are party workers saying there tonight, nina? whatare what are party workers saying there tonight, nina? what are you picking up tonight, nina? what are you picking up from the various teams there? well, the greens are very optimistic that they might be taking a third seat — last year, because of plans to build on green belt, and just because of a good grassroots campaign strategy, they took two seats in altringham. labour campaigners are saying they're hearing a lot of talk of austerity beginning to become more and more important to voters in trafford. the conservatives — many of them are feeling despondent, and the former leader of trafford council, the leader of trafford council, the leader of trafford council, the leader of the conservatives on this council group, told me earlier he would directly link this to the performance of the prime minister over brexit at the moment, what's going on down in westminster. there is some blame being pointed towards the party leadership. nina, thanks very much. nina with the latest in

trafford there. what do you make of that, laura? it's just trafford there. what do you make of that, laura? it'sjust so interesting, isn't it, that neither of the big parties is benefiting from the chaos that we've seen in westminster for the last six months, it seems? maybe that's not surprising. you know, people have watched on as a country, they've seen, you know, night after night, arguments over brexit, every time both of the parties trying to grapple with their own divisions, as barry gardiner openly admitted, labour is speaking with two voices on brexit. that's not easy to do. it does not tend to bode well if you're trying to get people to tick your ballot box. that's hard. of course, it's a party leadership's job to communicate that message if, indeed, it is the right thing to do. but if you listen to that councillor from sunderland — really cross with what's being done in his party's name, and really feeling the impact on the ground. but the tories are not having an easy time of it either.

we went into this expecting to have a really, really tough night because asi a really, really tough night because as i say, really good results in 2015, better than we expected in 2015, better than we expected in 2015, to be honest with you, plus the backdrop of exit. what i find really interesting is that we had psychologically budgeted to having a bad night, ithink psychologically budgeted to having a bad night, i think the labour party with their creative ambiguity about exit, took barry about 15 minutes of monologue to still not really explain labour's brexit position. so the opposition has been straight, we are determined to deliver brexit. we are determined to deliver brexit. we are unambiguous about that, the labour party has been trying to buy two courses in the hope that they would be the recipients of whatever vote we might‘ve lost because of our backs at position and what seems to be the that while people are understandably frustrated with the party of government for not yet delivering brexit, they are clearly

just as frustrated with the labour party for trying to play both audiences against the other. —— horses. barry is sitting betweenjo andi horses. barry is sitting betweenjo and i saying i'm not going to do what you want, jo, which is to remain and i'm not going to do what you want, james, to leave, well, those are the only you've got. the labour trying to simultaneously be both leave and remain, i think is being punished at the ballot box. barry is recognising that there are different ways you can leave, surely, isn't that it? no, i do not think that is what barry is recognising it all. it is exactly what i recognising because it is what i recognising because it is what the supreme court said, if you remember what the supreme court said there was the initial challenge over triggering article 50, they said the referendum has decided that we should leave, the parliament'sjob is to decide how we should leave.

and that is why your party has completely split over this because you have got some, like bernard jenkins earlier, who would like to very happily go off into a no deal. you, sensibly i think, would not countenance that but the deal that the prime minister has come up with is one which he cannot get —— she cannot get to parliament and a set of two years ago coming to both opposition parties and saying, i recognise we are miles away from where you are, we're certainly not whether labour party is, but we need to come together to actually get the country through this because the country through this because the country is split on it. —— where the labour party is. she didn't and now a month ago, latterly, she has come to the labour party and said now i need to take seriously the sorts of compromise suggestions that you have been putting forward, and that is what you will are now doing with our team to try and work out that, and see if we can get a common ground

that the people of this country will be able to say yeah, i can live with that and parliament can say yes, let's go. do you think the eu have been unreasonable with the oral agreement that has been negotiated? and if you do, which bits of the drawl agreement do you think the eu have been unreasonable over? 0k, look, the withdrawal agreement, as well know, is 600 pages and... so a simple yes or no, do you think the eu have been unreasonable withdrawal agreement? yes or no answer, made. come on. it is not a yes or no answer. no, it literally is do you think the eu have been unreasonable withdrawal agreement? do you think they are being reasonable? yes, that is why voted for it. you do, you think they are being reasonable? yes, that is why voted for it. that is my answer, what is yours? the labour party have always said

that... you are happy with the drawl agreement but it was the political declaration you did not like, so we took that out, you then refuse to vote for it. we can't, as your prime minister has said... (crosstalk) on a numberof minister has said... (crosstalk) on a number of occasions, they are inseparable and the whole point is that we will not support a blind exit particularly when likelihood is that it will not only be your prime minister, who is the current prime minister, who is the current prime minister, who is the current prime minister, who was delivering on the second part of it. (crosstalk) it is a completely blind brexit. what we're seeing is labour looking for excuses to not vote for it. if we are, why are you asking us in to try and help you out? your party is empowered if you have got the brexit deal right, it is notjust whether or not why hasn't passed the parliament, which is about what the labour party has been doing and some of your own site, but what if you