‘party have always said labour party have always said that... you are happy with the drawl agreement but it was the political declaration you did not like, so we took that out, you then refuse to vote for it. we can't, as your prime minister has said... (crosstalk) on a numberof minister has said... (crosstalk) on a number of occasions, they are inseparable and the whole point is that we will not support a blind exit particularly when likelihood is that it will not only be your prime minister, who is the current prime minister, who is the current prime minister, who is the current prime minister, who was delivering on the second part of it. (crosstalk) it is a completely blind brexit. what we're seeing is labour looking for excuses to not vote for it. if we are, why are you asking us in to try and help you out? your party is empowered if you have got the brexit deal right, it is notjust whether or not why hasn't passed the parliament, which is about what the labour party has been doing and some of your own site, but what if you

have got the deal right, why are we not seeing the results coming back on your doorstep? why are you losing seats in peterborough, one of the strongest leave voting seats in the country, whether just happens strongest leave voting seats in the country, whetherjust happens to be a by—election few weeks. that is the seat you would expect, if you are truly the brexiteers delivering brexit, that people be sticking with the conservatives. why are you losing votes to the lid dams, even up losing votes to the lid dams, even up the road from you rental?m losing votes to the lid dams, even up the road from you rental? it is com pletely up the road from you rental? it is completely expected that because of the deeply undesirable delay in delivering brexit that people are angry with us as the party in government. -- liberal democrats. it is unfortunate that it is u nfortu nately is unfortunate that it is unfortunately also inevitable. what iam unfortunately also inevitable. what i am saying is that in addition to the frustration with the conservative party, the party of government and when you are in government, you always cop blame because you are the party of government. what i saying is, in addition the frustration with us,

the labour party, clearly thought they could harvest that disquiet by avoiding making any tough decisions are also being punished. that is the story of the night. many labour voters wa nt story of the night. many labour voters want to see us keep the benefits of the membership, so it is not surprising that they are punishing the labour party and with heard from barry tonight he wants to deliver brexit, he just wants to pretend it is a different exit to the brexit that theresa may is putting forward. this is an also just some kind of in government, it isa just some kind of in government, it is a bit difficult when you lose seats. the government is making such a monumental mess of this. we're seeing a lot of crisis and chaos in government, that we have not had for such a long, such along government, that we have not had for such a long, such a longtime. i meani such a long, such a longtime. i mean i do not even know what you compare this to in terms of the level of, you look at the ministers that have left, you look at the general way that nothing has been done on brexit, that is the calamity. it is notjust a general people do not like the government, those we hear on the doorstep some

people. but, 10, why don't you respect the referendum result? i understand the economic arguments andi understand the economic arguments and i agree with those, but your party has made... the second word of your title, liberal democrats... you just ask any question, though, will you let me insertof course. it is more thanjust you let me insertof course. it is more than just the economic economic argument, this is also about our place in the world, about who we are asa place in the world, about who we are as a country, about how we join with others. extinction rebellion, disclaim an emergency we have declared and parliament this week and i'm delighted to have been able to vote for that motion and the labour party for bringing that forward , labour party for bringing that forward, i will give credit for that. but in tackling that issue, membership of the european union is absolutely crucial because we have to work with others in the eu has with eu membership been able to be absolutely instrumental in that, so this is not just absolutely instrumental in that, so this is notjust about the economics. that was not my question to you, my question was why don't

you recognise democracy? so theresa may went and negotiated. i am just going to have to say it, it is end of round two, i'm really sorry but we'll be back, all right? thank you very much. rita, quick update. we have resulted in from walsall and this is the conservatives's first game of the night. —— a result in front. it was a hung council and the conservatives have gained it with a majority of four. this was a straight red, blue fight, as you can see the conservatives got 32 seats and labour26, see the conservatives got 32 seats and labour 26, with the liberal democrats on two. so an interesting council this, an interesting area because the conservatives took a seat of labour in the parliamentary election in 2017, so thatjust tells you how hotly contested this area isn't just to show you the you how hotly contested this area isn'tjust to show you the seachange here, conservatives up two, labour down two. but it's the conservatives's first win for the

night. thank you very much. —— that is. what about councillors? have a look at the scoreboard, because this is where we are in terms of number of councillors. the tories are at the moment down 53, the labour party down at the moment 43, the lib dems up down at the moment 43, the lib dems up a8, the down at the moment a3, the lib dems up a8, the greens have also made several gains and we will bring you the figures injust several gains and we will bring you the figures in just a second for the other parties because i would like to do now isjoin ben bland for the latest news. hello, here is a summary latest news. hello, here is a summary of the bbc news. the first results are coming in after voting in local elections across england and northern ireland. elections have been held for 2a8 english councils, six mayers and 11 councils in northern ireland. the councils in northern ireland. the councils in northern ireland. the councils in northern ireland will begin counting in the morning. —— mayors. jessica parker reports. calling card in hand, the prime minister heads into vote, a picture of these local elections taking shape of the coming

hours. voters have been taking their m essa 9 es hours. voters have been taking their messages into churches, town halls, schools, community centres across the country. now, it is time to take that message in. the contest over, counting is under way. the first results are in, a few smiles and cheers but in hartlepool, labour has lost control of the council and overall, the council ‘s sci—fi looking at small net loss of seats. it is not looking good, this is going to be a very difficult night for labour. —— the council is looking at a small net loss of seats. it is all about brexit and the residents are telling us they going to make sure there is some change because of their dissatisfaction over brexit. the conservatives held onto swindon but lost tandrige and basildon, so some early signs it could be the smaller

parties like the liberal democrats and the greens gaining ground but there is a long way to go, this is a big set of local elections and parties will be watching closely, testing the waters after to multiples time in westminster. but local elections of course about picking the people who run local council services, set council tax, and decide how to spend it. delivering the ballot one ballot box after another, they were certainly eager to get going here. it is democracy and energetic action and energy is what is needed, it is a long night ahead. jessica parker, bbc news. the prime minister says the case is closed after defence secretary gavin williamson was dramatically sacked on wednesday. he was over leaked details of the national security council meeting. -- it national security council meeting. —— it was over. on thursday, opposition parties insisted there should be an investigation into whether the official secrets act was breached. gavin williamson continues to deny telling the daily telegraph about discussions over whether the

chinese firm huawei should help to build the government's 5g network. the prime minister considers that this matter is closed and the cabinet secretary does not consider it necessary to refer to the police but we would of course co—operate fully should the police themselves consider that an investigation were necessary. the prime minister has sacked the secretary of state for defence because she believes there is compelling evidence that he has committed a crime, but despite that, she does not believe he should face a criminal investigation. where is the justice in that? a criminal investigation. where is thejustice in that? the a criminal investigation. where is the justice in that? the canadian aerospace firm bombardier has announced it will sell off its pla nts announced it will sell off its plants in belfast as part of a worldwide restructuring programme. it is northern ireland's largest manufacturer and employs people to build aircraft wings and other parts. bombardier says it is committed to finding the right buyer. facebook has banned several

far—right and extremist figures groups, calling them dangerous. among those removed is the nation of islam leader, the former editor of breitbart news, miley novelist, and alex jones, the conspiracy theorist and founder of infowars. in a statement, facebook says it has a lwa ys statement, facebook says it has always banned those who promote hatred and violence, regardless of their ideology. authorities in india are bracing for one of the most powerful storm see the region in yea rs. powerful storm see the region in years. hundreds of thousands of people have been evacuated from their homes as the cyclone approaches. many have taken refuge in shelters set up in schools and government buildings. the cyclone is expected to make landfall within the next few hours, with winds of up to 200 kilometres an hour. that is it from me for now, time now tojoin election 2019.

welcome back to the bbc election centre. a3 councils across england have now declared. 200 or so to go and 838 counsellors elected so far with nearly 8000 to go so we are getting there but there is still quite a long way to go. laura, big thoughts about where we are? so far not the kind of night that labour would want to have had. at this stage, as opposition, they should be making big strides that it is not what we're seeing. tories were expecting something pretty grim but they are not seeing something as awful but they are not seeing something that is great. 0n awful but they are not seeing something that is great. on average, iam told, something that is great. on average, i am told, the tories are losing one in six they were defending and labour one in six they were defending and labourone in in six they were defending and labour one in ten they were defending. it is not a good night for either of the parties so far but

what is interesting is how the votes seem what is interesting is how the votes seem to be going to the smaller parties and particularly the lib dems and the greens. notjust in the main areas. you might have expected with all of the absolute anxiety around brexit around the country you would see only remain areas where the greens would be sucking up and perhaps ukip for leave areas, they are not doing badly but lib dems are picking up in all sorts of places. within that pattern, in terms of a more complex pattern than usual, at least aa games to independence so just in terms of how the way people are channelling their vote. just looking at green gains. reading, temp side, exeter, st. albans and

john curtis telling us, recapping what he was saying earlier, that this is a further indication of a plague on both your houses theme that seems to be expressed in these elections and focusing on the independent outcome, securing a3 seats. can we talk about this block of independence because a3 or aa increase is not insignificant. but is it really a pretty varied bunch of candidates in terms of political colour? a few of them are from ukip. the independent games seem to be particularly strong in places such as barnsley where there was already an independent group that it looks

as though, as people have been saying, wherever there was somebody a p pa re ntly saying, wherever there was somebody apparently available to express protest against the party system and certainly whether it is conservative or labour, whoever is the incumbent, it looks as though some independent candidates are also profiting from this pattern. the live democrats are particularly up in places. —— liberal democrats. the greens putting in one of the best local elections ever, making gains of seeds and doubling their share of the vote, typically. ukip may not be back to the level of 2015 but still well up on recent local election performances. conversely, both the conservatives and the labour party are losing ground and, above all, they are losing ground where they

we re they are losing ground where they were previously strongest. put all this together and, frankly, it looks as though the response of the electorate into the ballot boxes is not so much your to remain or leave but you have rather made a mess of things. laughter. just looking at the changes in the keyboards we talking about earlier because of the 720 identified, 317 have come through and looking at these results... ukip down six. the explanation for that is that remember ukip are fighting far fewer wards this time than they did back in 2015 when they were much stronger on the ground. so not all but quite a lot of that drop is simply the fa ct a lot of that drop is simply the fact that they are putting up fewer candidates. if you look at what is

happening in the wards, they are fighting this time and fighting last time, ukip is a down a bit but the truth is, voters amongst other things are now more willing to vote for eurosceptic parties than they we re for eurosceptic parties than they were in the general election and broadly speaking that picture is confirmed even though none of nigel virage's candidates on the paper. —— nigel farage. this is a still early days.

welcome back to the bbc election centre where we are keeping tabs on these local elections in england, that taking place in northern ireland also but they are not counting until later this morning there. we're on these results across england. 2a8 local authorities in england. 2a8 local authorities in england and 8000 counsellors being elected. news from st. albans. this isa elected. news from st. albans. this is a conservative loss. it has just been declared a conservative loss. it had been conservative since 2015. they had a majority of the two but, although they are still counting, the conservatives cannot get past the conservatives cannot get past the winning number so it is now the conservatives and the liberal democrats neck and neck on 20 seats

each and the contest now is to see who will be the largest party. let me show you the seat change. the conservatives have lost five, the liberal democrats have gained for. what is also interesting, the share change. look at that, conservatives are down by 1a%. joe swinson smiling broadly. st. alba ns are down by 1a%. joe swinson smiling broadly. st. albans is a very remaining area. voted 63% to remain in the european union and it could be that we are seeing the liberal democrats benefiting from that fact. we will be talking a little more about saint ——st albans. what i want to do is get to speak about what is

happening in derby. traditionally a very big labour area. happening in derby. traditionally a very big labourarea. 0ur guest happening in derby. traditionally a very big labour area. our guest is the long—standing labour mp and former foreign secretary, dame margaret beckett. thank you for joining us. what is going on that as far as labour is concerned? we have had a rather disappointing night. these are not seeds that are necessarily very good territory for us necessarily very good territory for us and we have in fact lost some ground which we are very sad about but not wholly unexpected to be frank. there is a wildcard factor here which is we are one of the six thatis here which is we are one of the six that is piloting having individual voter identification. it is much too early to know but there is some anecdotal suggestion that that has put some people off. that is an interesting point because we were discussing this a short while ago before we came on air whether this

would be a factor because, as you know, it has been introduced in several areas but what kind of things people saying? this has caused more problems than people had thought? well, it is much too early to have a clear picture and good evidence, but some people seem to have been saying they were put off going to vote when they realised and some suggestion that people who had gone to vote without fully realising. do not know whether they took enough of the right kind of identification or realise they were to ta ke identification or realise they were to take extra id but there is some suggestion it may have been a factor but it is much too early to be fair, to say that is of consequence. we will wait to see whether there is more evidence. we were talking earlier to the labour leader of

sunderland council who said labour's policy of including a possible option of other people ‘s votes that that proved incredibly unpopular with lots of labour people in sunderland. that was the message. does that message make sense to you in terms of what you are listening to in derby or what is your take on that? it is not, i mean, like sunderland, people in derby voted to leave but that is not what i have been hearing from people in derby. indeed, one of the things that slightly surprise me about that is that, if people are very clear that they want to leave — i presume that is he saying mrs may's deal is a cce pta ble is he saying mrs may's deal is acceptable because if he is, surely he should welcome the opportunity for people to confirm that is the case. his problem was and we

discussed it with barry, he felt there was a lack of clarity and that people were unsure about the part of the labour message around this and the labour message around this and the very prospect that she was clear about one thing — the very prospect ofa about one thing — the very prospect of a second vote for lots of people who felt strongly about brexit was terribly offputting. i know your view on the right is different but do you recognise that, in some parts of the country, it is very unappealing? i do recognise that. i com pletely unappealing? i do recognise that. i completely recognise that people, some people, do not want to be bothered, some of them feel they expressed the view and that is it stop however, it is very easy to say that now but, if it all goes ahead, if mrs may's deal it through parliament i wonder how people will feel very shortly afterwards when

they see how things develop, if they have not had an opportunity to say this is acceptable. there is a great danger in assuming that everybody will be happy with the outcome. what iam hearing will be happy with the outcome. what i am hearing from a lot of people and it is my feeling, people who even voted to leave, this is not what they thought they were getting and that there is a difficult conundrum which people have to come to grips as we all do. all of this is very difficult territory for everybody and i think we have to recognise legitimate differences in points of view. of course there are differences of view. let me turn the question around and ask you, do you think there are areas of labour's policy on exit that could be more clear? that could be an easier sell to the voters? well, i think, i

mean, i would to the voters? well, i think, i mean, iwould have to the voters? well, i think, i mean, i would have liked us to be clearer and more forceful about the fa ct clearer and more forceful about the fact that we think that, in the end, whatever it is of the house of commons decides, and ought to be put to the people to see if it is a cce pta ble to the people to see if it is acceptable to the people. ——it ought. if it is in the end the people who decide then, by definition, that cannot and establishment stitch up. there are terrible dangerous both ways. i com pletely terrible dangerous both ways. i completely understand people who do not want to be bothered and people who think it is going to be divisive and time—consuming and all the rest of it but, one way or another, we have to settle this question, we have to settle this question, we have to settle this question, we have to decide where our future lies and, certainly, if parliament cannot decide it, then that makes it a very difficult argument but my own feeling is that, if what is being

put forward by parliament in the end may not be what people thought they we re may not be what people thought they were voting for, they should have an opportunity to say whether or not this on balance is something they wa nt to this on balance is something they want to live with all not. thank you so want to live with all not. thank you so much forjoining us. margaret beckett in a derby with her take on things. i would like to go to rita for a result which is interesting in peterborough. this is a conservative loss. the conservatives had a small majority of two in this council, it has now become a hunk council. no overall control. these are the broaderfigures. the liberal party, the old liberal party that did not

join with the social democrats they have one counsellor. let me show you that seat change. conservatives losing four seeds. labour gaining three. interesting seat this because we now know there is going to be a by—election on june six we now know there is going to be a by—election onjune six after the mp fiona 0nasa nya was by—election onjune six after the mp fiona 0nasanya was recalled. looking at this result one wonders if labour will take some hard here that they may be able to hang onto that house of commons seed given their performance here has been quite good. that's an interesting prospect. i wa nt to that's an interesting prospect. i want to bring in our so graham brady who is the conservative mp who is of course, the chairman of the backbench conservative mps, the 1922 committee. good morning, good to be

tojoin us. it is to look in the morning, we're very grateful. give us morning, we're very grateful. give us the latest take that you have here and what has happened to the conservatives in trafford in the election. it's a bit difficult for me because i have been waiting to come on air with you and i might have missed any results coming through. but seeing the weather it's a building, i think it's very likely is extracted from master, we may see tab on mac taking overall control with some of those seats in the north of the borough which went heavily labour last year. seeing another counsellor in those wards coming to the party, and my end of the borough. i think we were seeing no great stunning results for the conservative party for the tabernacle party. distractible michael stop the war was very tight, one or two that are very tight between the conservatives and the

lib dems. 0ne between the conservatives and the lib dems. one where the greens might pick it up for the second time running. what are people saying to you on the doorstep, when you been campaigning abyssal elections? have they been a combination of local issues of national issues or have they been focusing on the big picture with brexit dominating the landscape? a combination of the two. suddenly, i picked up a lot of concern on the doorstep in some parts of my constituency about the labour council picked up by the greens. allowing massive development which is causing very real concern. some local issues that have been cutting through to some extent. it also undoubtedly been harder for us to get our vote to turn out. and thatis to get our vote to turn out. and that is because of dissatisfaction about the national seat and the

overwhelming view of the doorstep in my area for a very long time has been for heaven ‘s sake, get on with it. this massive frustration that we have yet to see the whole thing through. andries resolution. —— and reach. how often does the prime ministers name come up on the doorstep? a dozen time to time, it's more an overwhelming frustration. something which was central to the government ‘s purpose has yet to be achieved, yet to be fulfilled. it something which is reflect both in something which is reflect both in some conservative voters who chose to stay at home, and also looking at some of the spoiled ballot papers here this morning, there are more, i suspect that is usually the case. quite a number of messages about the failure to leave the european union as promised. what is your message to

those conservative local chairman and chairwoman who want to change the rules so that a challenge as possible to theresa may as leader? what you say to them? the 1922 executive as you know debated this matter at considerable length. we agreed that we could change the rules that we decided not to change the rules last week when we had that discussion. instead, we have asked the prime minister to be symmetrical. she has already set out the timetable for departure and for the timetable for departure and for the election of a new leader in the event that she gets her brexit deal through. we have asked her to be equity clear about her plans if she fails to get that brexit deal through. we clearly thought there was not a conversation that was sensible to have. in the run—up to

local elections, it would have been deeply unhelpful to local government candidates up and down the country. the resolution... i'm just candidates up and down the country. the resolution... i'mjust going candidates up and down the country. the resolution... i'm just going to bring in borrow. after the conversations, your promised response, i know mps were expecting a response, something clear. have you had any response and just been bashful are not told us about it yet? as i say, laura, it was a good idea not to get diversity into this and the few days leading up to local elections which would have been unhelpful to local election candidates. i do think we will receive a response and we expect a response, but no i haven't had that response, but no i haven't had that response yet. and when do you hope to receive it, then? well, we've got the local elections out of the way

now, and we have i suppose a bank holiday weekend. but we will be looking to hear a response to what we have put to the prime minister in the near future. so graham, the conservative losses in terms of councils are said petersburg, st albans, on the basis of that, who knows what will happen. what kind of message will you be taking back to westminster? i think these elections around the country are very mixed. it doesn't look like it's a good night for labour. it doesn't look like it's a good night for the conservative party. this element of plague on both houses, some votes being cast in various directions. we need to pull together, we need to be competent as a government and we need to make progress on the central

issue of brexit which is both frustrating people that doesn't happened and is also taking up far too much time, preventing the whole government machine and parliament from focusing on the many other things to want to focus on as well. graham, it's good of you tojoin us. thanks for waiting patient. andrew mentioned south and there, rita has some figures for us. yes, here it is. he is the touchscreen to show you. this is a conservative loss, they held this council by a majority of five and 2018. it'd been hung before then. it has now become a hung council, the conservatives have lost this council. these other figures, conservatives on 20 seats, labour, 1a. independence on 11.

independents are traditionally strong in this council. liberal democrats on four. the two other interesting things other seachange. that explains the overall story, conservatives losing seven seats and those been divided between labour, independent and lib dem. let me also show you the share change, a big dip in the conservative share vote. 12% for the conservatives, clearly the independents are getting a big boost there. ukip interesting, down by 6%, although they were only fielding seven counsellors in 17 seats. that makes explain that dip as well. again, southend apparently reflecting a theme that we have seen during the course of the night which is the two main parties, conservative and labour, going back

in terms of voting share encounters that where they are traditionally strong. this is the moment where at eight minutes parts to in the morning we can actually come up don't run away. ijust do so, thank you for being with us. for the last, gosh, how long is it, two hours? and for providing us with some lively debate which is never taken for granted. next very much and never see you next time, hopefully. what i like to do now is go to can dredge and talk to sam. good morning. just give us an update on the conservative performance there. well, we have lost our main council, it's extrema disappointing, but not

surprising because the big issue here has been housing, and the greenbelt and we lost a number of seats last year and have lost some fantastic counsellors this year, they overwhelming beneficiary has been the residence group that campaigned against my houses. clearly, there was a big issue. how would you rate those issues in terms of people ‘s attention locally with the national picture? the housing thing is the single biggest issue in this constituency because it is 95% greenbelt. any proposal to build more houses is deeply contentious. of course, the national picture, exeter look and parliament, hasn't helped in terms of the mood on the doorsteps. but we can see by the parties are people chose to vote for locally, the local issues are

significant factors well. the liberal democrats who were seeming to be coming back, they had had done well in terms of winning some seats. the conservatives have had control of the council since 2000 and as much as i would like that to continue forever, the laws of politics say that there comes a point when things are rebalanced. and extrema difficult night for us. when the brexit issue is raised in all its forms? what if saint you? dishrag what are people saying to you? some of the other mps are saying, wise and it being sorted out? just frustration about people not understanding what is going on in parliament. that is certainly been an issue that i have picked up.

there is a sense about that across the country. and that as a consequence of the parliament being in deadlock. on the campaign that you have been running and the kind of pipe that you have been proposing, again, what kind of response you get? it depends on who you speak to. for people who, i said that if parliament is in deadlock, the answer is to let the people back into the process and to have a final say. there are some people who will give me high—fives in the street for that and there are others who would say, if theresa may can't get a deal through then why can't we have no deal? the country, my constituency is as divided as parliament is. indeed, it is. i'm wondering, how does that, what is your reading than of the factors that lead into your performance there and the

performance there and the performance of the conservative party across the board where you've lost control of places like peterborough and southend and st albans, how peterborough and southend and st alba ns, how much peterborough and southend and st albans, how much of that is down to people ‘s perceptions of the way the conservative has handled the brexit process as opposed to other things? i think we can't get away from the fa ct i think we can't get away from the fact that there have been a number of issues at national level on which the government hasn't covered itself in glory. but they are local elections and voters are also quite discerning. i can't speak for every local area and the factors that are driving at and it is still early days. for example, there are parts of the constituency of account is happening tomorrow. so i'm very cautious about drawing huge generalisations. but we know the national issue has been difficult in this part of my constituency, 95%

greenbelt housing is always the issue. it's the biggest single issue as far as my post bag is concerned. the beneficiaries, local independent group that campaigned on housing, but yes, the national picture definitely is the backdrop here. we can't get away from that. very good of you to talk to us. thank you very much indeed. joining us therefrom can dredge. we have a new panel. are you all happy to be here? how's it going so far? let's start with christine. i'm very happy to be had. we are hearing more good news, we don't know are resulted but is looking very exciting. what other factors ? looking very exciting. what other fa cto rs ? we

looking very exciting. what other factors? we are seeing the people are fed up with the mess the government has made with brexit, to my mac is providing an alternative. they're getting it wrong, they see us as the natural party to go to the circumstances. i think we also have to ta ke circumstances. i think we also have to take account that someone said earlier, even in leaf seeds, brexit is not, i think it was margaret beckett, she said they believe is not a people expected when they voted leave. perhaps they don't want it now. the momentum has come, we saw the petition for a second referendum, was on the march, we are seeing a move away and people saying no, actually, you both got it wrong. the liberal democrats and the greens is an increase there as well. we wa nt to is an increase there as well. we want to move away from that and think again about brexit. don, tough results from labour. logitech? it's too early to identify a trend.

because it's very complex in terms of the national picture and the local picture, so i think we'll have to wait for a good 24 hours before we can say the definitive trend. we we nt we can say the definitive trend. we went expecting, we were quite cautious because obviously a lot of the selections are essentially in the selections are essentially in the conservative fathers. so we were quite optimistic but cautious i think we will have to wait and see how it pans out thereafter evening. i'm really sorry for the seats up of lost in folders counsellors that have worked hard so i'm really sorry that we have lost seats but i hope that we have lost seats but i hope that we have lost seats but i hope that we don't lose too many more. you've done about 50 seats at the moment, if i was being brutal i would say, this government is in a state of crisis. because it has been a political crisis, you should be in a political crisis, you should be in a position where you really were having a good night and losing 50 seats at this point in the cycle, i

could suggest it's not a great race to be foster what would you say? ido i do not think anyone was saying this is going to be a good night for labour. it is a good question though. when you look at the national picture and you look at brexit and what is going on in parliament and how it has been handled by the government, how we have been trying, dragging the government kicking and screaming to inject any form of democracy into the decision—making process, people are rightly fed up. we have been speaking about brexit for three years and we have not moved further forward and i can understand the frustrations of people, of people staying at home, voting differently to make a point, i can understand all that and i understand they feel — there was a report on the 2017

election — and only a minority of people thinking they had a say.|j can understand all of that. i am not sure if you were in a position to listen to your colleague from sunderland who came on, obviously still in control but losing ten counsellors and he was pretty forthright. he said, people hate this people ‘s vote, of a second referendum and for that reason lots of labour supporters did not turn up to vote for us because of our policy. barry gardner tried to a nswer policy. barry gardner tried to answer that but that message was clear. i am wondering, from your perspective, does that make sense? if it does, does labour's message need to change? as the evening wears on, ithink need to change? as the evening wears on, i think you will find people have a strong opinion but opposite

to sunderland. we have a wide range of voters within the labour party. some are strong remain and some are strong leave. the policy, born of a democratic conference, does not change in terms of where we want the country to be. we respect the referendum and that is why we voted to trigger article 50. tried to give this a go. at every stage we tried to help the process while hanging onto labour's call values and it is not a simple message because it is not a simple message because it is not a simple situation. those people that pretend it is our doing a disservice to both the voters and us leaving the eu. a result from middlesbrough. six mayoral contests

which we have not touched on. look at this... this is an independent game from labour. look at that majority. a turnout of 31% but if you look at the percentage of the vote, this is where it is more dramatic. let's see what has happened there since last time. pretty massive 30% increase by the independent. middlesbrough, i mean, again, they may be some local factors but i am wondering again, why would that be happening to you

at this stage in the cycle? it is a bad sign. this is a very unique set of elections at a very unique time. it has not been this turmoil since the second world war so you need time politically —— a unique time politically. the smaller party and independent was the forecast that they would do better. it is a plague on both your houses syndrome. evidently in this seat the independent has gained a lot of ground and benefited from people not liking any of the major parties. people watch it might be saying, why are we asking all these questions to labour when you are responsible for this brexit mess and you are losing

a0 counsellors and have lost control of at least four councils. what is the message you take back to westminster if this trend continues? i accept there are several hours to go but what will you take back? my message to my colleagues would be, we all need to reflect on tonight and deliver on what we promised, to deliver brexit. if you look at where we are, yes, it is only days and lots of caveats. my area is counting tomorrow. but the forecast — and we did have a high water mark in 2015 when we won six out of ten council seeds. we expected to lose up to a thousand counsellors tonight. it is looking a bit better which i am positive about that. labour should have surged winning 800 seats. lib

dems should win about 500 if they have a good night so my reading to date is that, if we do not keep our promise in parliament and deliver brexit, the two major parties are being punished for that either by voters not turning out or some labour voters in brexit areas coming out and sending a clear message to the labour party that you better deliver on brexit. now, your response to that in those same areas where they voted brexit, the lib dems are doing that. with my ex yougov hat on, when you have a low turnout, the smaller parties, if they can motivate the voters to come out they look as though they are winning. but the overall message that was sent to my colleagues in parliament is that the prime minister's instinct has been right on this all along. 0therwise

minister's instinct has been right on this all along. otherwise the two major parties are going to get punished. we have to reflect on that andi punished. we have to reflect on that and i hope my colleagues at some point, we know what parliament is against but we need to know what it is favour of and deliver brexit. local elections deliver low turnout. what is interesting about this, even if you forget about brexit — perish the thought — but forget about brexit for the moment, if you apply traditional expectations, what you would expect to see at this stage in the cycle, convention might be boring but it can be useful, a government losing lots and lots of seeds and the opposition generally making stride stop so far tonight none of those things are actually happening and brexit does seem to have changed another set of

conventions. we see the tories falling back a little bit, labour not making the council games they wanted and ought to be making at this stage and forgive me for saying but we have at a couple of hours who have had the seat before you, and it is very difficult and complicated is what we have been hearing but it is the job of them to get it right and we are seeing in very different shades, whether it is a pot moving to the limp dams and greens but people saying, as long as it is not either of the two main people. —— liberal democrats. potential lessons for where we are. it does not suggest that either party can take away from each other.|j suggest that either party can take away from each other. i am trying to deliver what i think is a message delivered to us which is to all parliamentarians to be careful what you wish for if you do not deliver

on the promise you make on the ma nifesto on the promise you make on the manifesto you made into thousand 17. i have been saying this for months, certainly for the last few weeks. —— 2017. none of us around this table knows where this ends up. hard left, ha rd knows where this ends up. hard left, hard right, populous parties. in these elections, some of the smaller parties — there i say it maybe we will see it in the european elections — it is a warning we should heed and heed the instinct of the prime minister and deliver brexit. forgive me for a second. what i would like to do is look at one of the big battles royal between the conservatives and lib dems in portsmouth. peter hanley is there to

talk to us. that is the coveted position. tell us what you are reading of things in portsmouth right now is make i am a bit puzzled, actually, and confused by it all because nothing here has happened at all and even the turnout is of the same as you would expect ata is of the same as you would expect at a local election and four weeks, all through the campaign, everybody on the doorstep was saying there was this vitriol towards local politicians because of what was happening nationally and that people would stay at home and at the big parties would suffer. itjust has not happened here at all. there have been a lot of local issues people have been able to get there teeth on —a have been able to get there teeth on — a parking scheme, a district energy things great by liberal democrats. it was a very tight contest between the liberal

democrats and labour and the conservatives and even ukip came in with high hopes, thinking they could ta ke with high hopes, thinking they could take some seeds and they didn't get there, they did not even get decent seconds or thirds. same with the greens as well. there was public awareness because of extinction rebellion but they did not translate into votes. people turned out and voted in a local election in the usual way. can i refer you to conor doyle and the sherlock holmes mystery, perhaps this is a case of the dog that didn't bite. —— conan doyle. lots of colleagues were reporting a very different message on the doorsteps so what would have happened in the meantime?” on the doorsteps so what would have happened in the meantime? i don't know. i really don't know. i have

asked the questions to the counsellors here. laughter. everybody wasn't generally saying this is what we are hearing from the public, they did not want to turn out but 31% is what you basically get ina out but 31% is what you basically get in a local election. they were saying they would not support theresa may, well, the conservatives are up one, labour up one, lib dems up are up one, labour up one, lib dems up one. you have to say, what has happened to all the feeling that there generally is in this et, as in many other cities in the country, about what is happening nationally with brexit. —— this city. perhaps that was because people were concentrating on local issues. peter, we love your openness. let's go to central london and talk to

sean berry, coleader of the greens. thank you for waiting to talk to us. it is 2:30am. as things stand, you are up13 at it is 2:30am. as things stand, you are up 13 at least. what is your reading of things? very exciting for us at the moment. at least six art breakthroughs on the greens on two brand—new counsellors and places where you would not expect to see greens elected. time side, temp side, st helens, these are places that voted for brexited. thymeside thameside for some people working hard, listening to people, dealing with local issues, and dealing with the problems that led to brexit, these big councils dominated by one party taking people and not

listening to them. ignoring all swathes of the country. if greens are knocking on doors and actually listening to people and working on issues they care about, they are getting elected and they are getting elected by really margins. i am very excited by the results we are seen coming in because we are doing things like beating the conservative group leader in colchester by nearly 800 votes which is very exciting because we were not even sure we would win that seat. let's not forget that it is about brexit but also about the problems that led to brexit and people ‘s position on that. if people are justjoining us, if people arejustjoining us, your gains, colchester exeter, very broad spread. these areas all around the country and let's not forget this

was supposed be very tough election for us. we are defending about half our council seats and these are seats that we won in 2015 one of just come off the back of our green search. we've had a lot of new members a lot of new supporters back in. you're expecting it to be tougherfor us as in. you're expecting it to be tougher for us as your to defend the seats but in those four years, what we have seen is the new members who joined us, getting together, working hard, targeting seats, working for breakthroughs on new councils and holding areas of the country. so, we area holding areas of the country. so, we are a very mature holding areas of the country. so, we are a very mature party now, we are family established as the party in local government distracts firmly. we are the second party in cities like london and being the official opposition onto more and more councils we make a big difference. when you've got a decent group, actually working on budgets and putting forward good ideas, it can

transform an area. have suffered from having that kind of 1—party status and not doing the work. for now, i'm going to say thanks and i think you arejoining us in the studio later. thank you very much. laura, what are you picking up? just an interesting thing, our analysis are saying in line with the pattern of voting in our keyboards, for eve ryo ne of voting in our keyboards, for everyone said the tories are losing to labour, they are losing to the dems. the erratically, and that continues overnight tomorrow, the tory losses could seem a much more significant and more of the rural areas come in. to add to that, the lib dems are expected to take bath and north east somerset council and the tories. that would fit with the pattern that the lib dems might gobble up a lot of the seeds from the tories in different parts of the countries. and more than had been

predicted. at the beginning of the programme, i was hearing today from liberal democrats and from senior tories, quite often predictions, fear from the tories the lib dems might end up taking as much as 506. your colleague was saying she would be over the murder that happened but i was saying, you are looking rather more chipper. i am over the moon as well. that would be our best local election results at all. if that happened. so the sick —— slap sceptical. they have never ever suggested that before. it would be astonishing but if i could just point out... a 40 year low ebb, of course you are going to gain seats. how can you dismiss, how can you say, oh well, you should be getting more. that's something about your lack of confidence in 2015, it was a

high water mark. 16 out of ten can see. 32 council authorities. the same period of time and power but, they lost three and a half dozen council seats. i'm giving you... not try to political, . when not comparing it, and 2015 the lib dems were published for their austerity is in the government, you are going for a particular low base so it is expected. don't go to said it was expected that the lib dems or make huge gains. the labour party gained many seats and local council elections, not saying that tonight, what were seen tonight is this plague on both your houses. let's

have a look at a fair scene today. —— at what we are seeing tonight. lots of conjecture, this is where we are. so far, the tories are making a loss of 86 council seats because these are counsellors, these are not councils. a9 down for labour at the moment. 67 gains for the lib dems, there are 14 gains for the greens and independents have gained 66. they are part of the picture. a very important part of the picture, too. that is the scoreboard. i would like tojoin mike emily that is the scoreboard. i would like to join mike emily for the that is the scoreboard. i would like tojoin mike emily for the news. here is that summary because of the first results are coming in from voting in local elections across england and northern ireland. elections have been held for 248 — councils, six mayors and 11 councils

and northern ireland. jessica parker reports. reports coming in, smiles and chairs, but as disappointment for temperament. they have lost control of some errors, they are looking at a small net loss of seats. it's not looking good. this is going to be a very difficult night for us. we have been out and about across the borough, the message we are getting loud and clear is all about brexit. the residents of telling us they are going to make sure there are some changes because of their dissatisfaction over brexit. the tories are looking at net losses too. despite holding onto the battleground of swindon, the conservatives have lost control of st albans, conservatives have lost control of st alba ns, and conservatives have lost control of st albans, and reg and busselton. a polling card in hand, what does the picture mean? i think she needs to ta ke picture mean? i think she needs to take a look at how many counsellors we have lost overnight. woke up in

the morning and think about how she thinks the conservative party needs to put its best foot forward. some early signs it could be some of the smaller parties like the lib dems and greens gaining ground. but there isa and greens gaining ground. but there is a long way to go. this is a big set of local elections and parties will be watching closely, testing the waters after to mulch of his time in westminster. it goes, verdict being delivered, one pallet box after another. they were certainly eager to get going here, it's democracy in energetic action. and energy is what is needed, it's a long night ahead. the prime ministers of the case is closed after the defence secretary gavin williamson was sacked on wednesday. i believe details from the national security council meeting. the opposition party has insisted that should be a police investigation as to whether the official secrets act has been breached. he still denies

telling the daily telegraph about discussions over whether the chinese firm should help to build the u.k.'s fudgy mobile as well. the prime minister has said that she now considers this matter has been closed. in the cabinet secretary does not consider it necessary to refer it to the police, but we would of course co—operate fully, should the police themselves consider that an investigation were necessary. the prime minister has such a secretary is for defence because she believes there is compelling evidence that he has committed a crime. but despite that, she does not believe he should face a criminal investigation. where is the justice in that? the canadian aerospace firm has announced it will sell off its plants in belfast as pa rt sell off its plants in belfast as part of a worldwide structuring programme has not the company is northern ireland ‘s ‘s manufacturer, it employs around them in a half—dozen people to build aircraft wings and other parts. facebook has

banned several far right and extremist figures and groups called on them dangerous, among those removed as a nation of islam leader, and exchange the conspiracy theorist, the founder of info was. it was always banned individuals and organisations that promote hate and violence. people on the north—eastern coast of india are bracing for the arrival of one of those powerful storms to hit the region in years. hundreds of thousands of people have an evacuated from their homes as cyclone is approaching. people have taken refuge in shelters that have been set up, it is expected to make that for any moment now with winds of up to 200 monitors an hour. now back to election 2019. welcome back to the bbc election

centre. we were talking about the lib dems performance just centre. we were talking about the lib dems performancejust before centre. we were talking about the lib dems performance just before the news, because it is an interesting prospect given what is going on at some of his errors with signs of some of his errors with signs of some problem more significant gains that people have predicted. if it were, for example, in the realm that say, of 500 gains in terms of council seats, that would be the best result for the lib dems. because the previous high was back in 1995 because the previous high was back in1995 and it because the previous high was back in 1995 and it was again a a83 so anything more than that would be record—breaking. but as nadine was pointing out and dawn as well, the parties had an incredible tough time in elections since 2010 when they enter the coalition government and since 2010, if you add it all up they have lost more than two counsellors, so it's got to be put in that context. is it a fair context? we happen to some difficulty is, we did well last year

as well. this figure of 500, it is still, that would be an astonishing result if that happened. so i'm not suggesting for a minute that's going to happen but what we're seeing is that we are coming back. people are coming back to us, they are fed with brexit, are fed up with the mismanagement by the conservative party, the lack of opposition from the labour party, they are coming back to us and said psych st albans we are pleased to see are doing very well, we are doing well in the cotswolds, lots of interesting results. it shows that the minister said, stick to your manifesto. we are. stick to your —— from the very beginning, we said that brexit was a bad idea and we don't want it to stop a referendum on the deal but what we're seeing tonight is that people respect that about coming back to us in large numbers, perhaps

not as large as 500 that could be astonishing, but it is significant. we have resulted in, this is a conservative loss, conservatives on 17 and the bond 15. let me go over to rita and ask her to take us through these numbers. as you say, this is a conservative loss. they are short by one. it is a council that has been hung recently and is now gone back into no overall control. these are bold figures, conservatives and 17, labour const 15 the seachange here, conservatives have lost one seat and the greens have lost one seat and the greens have gained one. that counciljust been lost by the conservatives. another result coming in, there were

six roles of executive mayor and copeland. this is an interesting one. the independents, in this case, have held onto copeland which is a very long labour tradition in this area. the independent holding on by ten —— area. the independent holding on by ten -- 10,000 area. the independent holding on by ten ——10,000 votes. the tories and third, let's look at the percentage of the vote. 57% for the independent, 26 for labour. if we look at the change, the independent put on 27% and we have seen the independence of quite a few of these contests now putting on quite a big percentage increase. labour done 14, the tories done 13. if you look at somewhere like copeland, which for decades has been distantly —— decent

labour territory, has been independent or would you expect it to be naturally labour territory? independent or would you expect it to be naturally labour territory7m was expected independent major hold on and in middlesborough during the research, they have had independence of 2002, labour only one at in 2015 so no surprise it's gone back to be an independent manner. iam not i am not saying it was a one off in middlesbrough but it was a unique figure. i thought on relative performance is again. so far, if you look at the historical precedents and do not worry about what is going on in westminster, but what the public is making of the parties. it is not the kind of night that labour

should be seeing. if we look at the equivalent period and the tony blair election. david cameron's. in opposition, again, hundreds and hundreds of gain on the march. forget the complications of brexit. do you accept this is disappointing? we will get the answer in a second. haha! let's look at the counsellors board...

welcome back to the bbc election centre. laura, you have a question. traditionally, the labour party should be gobbling up seeds right around the country if you want to look like you have a credible shot number 10 but that is not what is happening. but the shires and areas where these elections are, traditionally they are not known to gobble up... swindon... we are defending 2400, and the conservatives over 4000. we hope it is going to be tough but we will make progress. crosstalk. what

hmmfi make progress. crosstalk. what forecast were you reading? do you accept the broad point, if you are to look credible to the public and on the march to number 10, you should be making gains but you are making losses. we gain at trafford. .. we also making losses. we gain at trafford... we also have to talk about what we have done. we gained trafford, it showed how good labour can be when in power. i think we will see more of that as the evening wears on. i also think, to be honest, like with the general election, when people get to see and hear what labour's policies are like is that of the biased media projection of labour i think we will do even better. you are losing

seeds. you are falling back. but it is really early in the cycle. we have 24 hours left to go and i do not think we should make the mistake of trying to say this is a trend. we really have to wait until the end. it would be a matrix of thing. it will be national, local, all feeding into the result. portsmouth, look at the results there. i think it will be very mixed. some will be local, some national... but overall, how do you think about your prospect of getting out of this cycle of elections. by this afternoon, what are the overall gains? what are your chances? laura's point is clear which is that at this point in the cycle, you should be confident of

making those games if you are going to form a government in an election which would take place within months. —— could. which would take place within months. -- could. you cannot compare this moment in time historically. we hope to make progress and you can't say until the last minute what will happen. there are lots of things at play here. we have voter id, for instance. ina play here. we have voter id, for instance. in a few places it made a huge difference. we have had an 87—year—old woman who has voted all her life and was turned away. lots of factors in play that we have to look in detail. i am very unhappy about how the voter id has been rolled out and i think it is about suppressing the vote. in derby, that was mentioned as well. good morning

john, once again. relative performance and expectation — what is your take on that? i have some sympathy with the argument that things are unusual in the sense that not everyone expected that leave voters were going to vote for the party as a result so for an extent is this more difficult — — therefore it is more difficult for the labour party. however for labour to it is more difficult for the labour party. howeverfor labour to be losing ground, unless at the end of the day, the message is that we do not really care whether the labour party is in favour of brexit or against, wants a second referendum or not, that we are not terribly

convinced you have a clear policy on brexit and therefore, as a result, where the labour party is strong, the labour party is losing votes although i take the point about trafford, but so far labour have been losing most strongly in the north of england but it does not fit a pattern of the leave voting areas. it fits perhaps more neatly in the argument that what the voters have been saying is a plague on both your houses. 0ne been saying is a plague on both your houses. one way this is expressed is swinging away from conservatives and labour in their strong areas. if you we re labour in their strong areas. if you were the incumbent party locally, we

are sufficiently unhappy about the way both the government and opposition have been dealing with matters, we will take it out on whoever is the local incumbent. where will that leave us, john, but later on friday when we look at this set of results? what can we reliably read into a set of results based on that kind of logic? i guess one question that arises is that, given one of the notable features of these elections, is the two new parties, brexit and change uk, were not fighting these local elections. they must be a warning here that, if indeed these parties can demonstrate to be credible, and at least one of them is, if voters are in this mode, when it comes to may 23, they may be

inclined to use these parties in order to express their discontent. after all, the quite remarkable story of tonight, as it were the party who is doing best is frankly the party who is not on your table, the party who is not on your table, the collection of independence. voters are voting for independent candidates in order to express their dissatisfaction. 0ne suspects that nigel farage could attract some of this. complaining both about this stands of conservative and labour problems. there is an apparent mood of protest. what we take away from this is an indication that may 23 could be difficult for both the conservatives and labour parties if

voters are going to continue to use the opportunity to protest.l voters are going to continue to use the opportunity to protest. a very interesting prospect. john curtis that for us. labour's performance, what can you say about it in terms of north and south of england? are there patterns telling us something different? john was saying that they we re different? john was saying that they were notable variations in the labour's performance and the north and south. i have a couple councils here. liverpool and southampton, both labour holds. the share of the vote in liverpool is a 59% so by far and away the largest share. a closer contest in southampton. but i want to show you the difference between the two councils. you have labour going down by 7% in liverpool but up

by 2% in southampton so i really marked difference and john was saying that this is something which is being replicated across the north and south. 0ne is being replicated across the north and south. one thing to bear in mind is that about half the councils will be reporting their results tonight and the other half tomorrow and there are more southern councils reporting tomorrow so it could well be that if this trend continues, actually, labour's performance by the end of tomorrow could look rather better than at the end of tonight. we will pick that up with our friends tonight. we will pick that up with ourfriends in the tonight. we will pick that up with our friends in the studio but before we do that, let's have a look at some of the other areas where the cou nts some of the other areas where the counts have been taking place and results are coming in. i am thinking of colchester. andrew is there. we spoke earlier, the conservatives have failed to take it again but tell us about the circumstances and

what you read into the result?m tell us about the circumstances and what you read into the result? it is interesting. this was the main conservative target seat in eastern england and they failed to take it. in fact they have lost two seats tonight, including that of group leader losing his seat to the greens but it has not been a great night for the tories on the east of england. combinations of gains from the lib dems, labour and greens. they have held on to most of the other seeds but losing places like south and, basildon and peterborough are not great things for the tories. the main story though seems to surround the liberal democrats. they have one seat in colchester, they

are making games in other areas. expecting to take control of north norfol soap feeling quite on a high tonight. —— north norfolk. they think they are bouncing back so it looks like they are bouncing back. not so good for the tories. a quick word about labour. they held on to harlow and hip switch and cambridge but those are there strongholds. the state ipswich. remember, if we are quite close to a general election, which many people expect, you would expect labour to be making more gains in this region and they are not doing that at the moment. we have been talking about the brexit

factor and that it may have overshadowed local factors. the factor and that it may have overshadowed localfactors. the lib dems making considerable gains in your part of the world and yet we're about people being angry about the brexit process been blocked and going into stalemate at westminster. how do we square these votes for the lib dems who's a policy on opposing brexit could not be clearer. it is a bizarre one because they are doing well in the east of england which largely voted to leave. people saying that lib dems just sold themselves on saying they are not themselves on saying they are not the two major parties. labour and the two major parties. labour and the conservatives are equally been blamed for the delay over brexit and the lib dems saying it has nothing to do with us. we want to move on

and take politics and go back to normal politics stop it is a labour and the tories holding it up. lib dems putting that success down to the fact they were not the two main parties. what andrew is saying is that of course you made gains but you did so by not talking about the thing that you know will upset people, basically posing brexit and you are saying we are just not labour or the conservative. it is the classic protest vote.|j labour or the conservative. it is the classic protest vote. i do not think they could be anybody out there who does not know we are a remain. we have made that clear absolutely. it is clear tonight that thatis absolutely. it is clear tonight that that is what people are voting for. john curtis was talking about may 23 andi

john curtis was talking about may 23 and i am possibly the only one here looking forward to may 23 because we have shown the other party putting forward an alternative to the mess we have over brexit. we always said it would be a mess, it is a mess and ido it would be a mess, it is a mess and i do not think you can actually take it out of the equation tonight. it is worth talking about. we are doing well in chelmsford, bath, somerset. we are doing extremely well across the country tonight so i do not think that you can say... it is partly down to the fact that people are not happy with either the conservatives and labour and they see us as a viable party to vote for. the lib dems are not an alternative... it is an alternative to brexit. it is. ithink you alternative... it is an alternative to brexit. it is. i think you can legitimately say that you are not

tory or lib dems whereas in 2015 you are essentially tories. 0n tory or lib dems whereas in 2015 you are essentially tories. on what basis? you were in coalition. in scotland. in scotland. ican basis? you were in coalition. in scotland. in scotland. i can take that point. in scotland from 1999 to 2007 we were coalition with the labour party. coalition does not mean you become labour or conservative it means you work with them. crosstalk. tuition fees, that was a wound that was quite role and people remember that. crosstalk. was a wound that was quite role and people rememberthat. crosstalk. lib dems are notorious for telling people what they want to hear on the doorstep. politicians do tell people what they want to hear. we have gone

out into a country and your both telling us that people want exit and it is the fact that brexit is not happening that they are not voting for you. that is not what i said. i told people we are the party of remain. it invites the question, doesn't it? we other party of remain we have never made any doubt about that. the liberal party position is more fudged. leave and not ignoring people who voted to remain, you are saying, if you voted to leave you are saying we don't care you voted to leave because we want to remain and we make no apologies about it. take a look... we are saying you need to consider both sides. this result is remarkable. this is a really interesting result. this is a conservative hold in mauleden on the

essex coast. you can see it there on the map. —— maldon. this is a majority of one. a council conservative for 20 years and you might say so what? the so what is their previous majority was 21. the conservatives have held on to maldon by the skin of their teeth. where are the votes gone? to the independents. let me show you the seat change there. tells the whole story. conservatives lose 12. independents gain 13 and ukip loses one. that is remarkable. what do you make of that? i was fascinated about the discussion between my colleague, ifi the discussion between my colleague, if i was liberal democrat it is the independents that are surging, it is a protest vote because we haven't delivered brexit on 29th march. the

two main parties promised to do it and the prime minister's instinct is right on that. if i was labour, to lose ground in walsall and wirral which is your heartland, at this time, in the cycle, if you are to convince the nation that you really are the party of government, then thatis are the party of government, then that is a bad place to be. so, look, it is not a good night for us, i didn't ex president it to be. i came tonight, expecting us to lose up to 1,000 seats. —— expect. there is a lot of counting takes place tomorrow but the overall message to all politicians unless we take brexit off the table, the two main parties certainly, are going to suffer for this and we will see that in the european elections, would be my analysis. let us go to plymouth and see what is going on there, my colleague luke pollard is there. luke, tell us what is going on, give us your labour perspective on what is going on there? in plymouth we

have had a good night nor the labour party. labour has held every seat we went in and we have made gains off the conservatives so from a plymouth perspective and labour it has been a good night for us. what are the factors in the campaign? well, we have had a good labour councilfor the last year, but weirdly in plymouth we have seen labour vote remaining strong, not only in our leave areas but in our remain areas as well. plymouth really is a tale of two cities with very different communities, in the north and south but what we have seen in both is voters in different communities all voting labour, and that is helping buck the national trend as plymouth often does. your colleague up in sunderland earlier was, the labour leader in sunderland was basically complaining about labour policy, very clearly, saying that the option of having a people's vote was

incredibly unhelpful to labour party workers on the doorstep, what is your perspective on that? well, i think we need to have greater clarity in our position, that is what i want to see the option of a public vote on any single brexit deal. i think it is clear in plymouth we have seen voters move from labour to the green, the liberal democrats in the small numbers, that has influenced in the overall result in some the marginal seats here, but people are sick and tired of brexit, we know that brexit isa tired of brexit, we know that brexit is a mess and the voters know it is a mess. politicians aren't finding the solution we need to at the moment so people are rightfully angry about what they see. but also, there is a lot people that are using a local election to vote on local issues, they are voting on bins not brexit. that is a topic that national commentators sometimes miss out on, for a lot of people local elections are about local issues. good to talk to you. luke in plymouth. let us go to trafford, and

talk to the conservative group leader in trafford and they lost control last year, as we said earlier and we will talk to shaun about the position. what is going on, tell us what the position is there? it, i think on, tell us what the position is there? it, ithink we on, tell us what the position is there? it, i think we are nearly there? it, i think we are nearly there with all of the results, it has been a particularly painful night for us, we have lost what will be nine seats and so that is some incredibly hard—working be nine seats and so that is some incredibly ha rd—working councillors u nfortu nately have incredibly ha rd—working councillors unfortunately have not won the seats we wa nted unfortunately have not won the seats we wanted them to win. we were defending seats from 2015, that were previously thought in what was an exceptional year for us in trafford and nationally, and so we were never going to replicate that 2015 result but we would have hoped to have done better than what we have done. let us have your assessment of maybe some local i have been shoes that may have been problem ma —— local issues that may haven be problematic, what is your reading of

it? i think there will be a combination of factors that have driven the way people have chosen to vote this evening and throughout the day, yesterday, isuppose. and vote this evening and throughout the day, yesterday, i suppose. and we need to really consider now, about if you lock at councils that have similar demographics to trafford and the conservative vote is not going the conservative vote is not going the way we want it to, if you look at other councils as you have explained in your show this morning, where some of the demographics there is progress made, so the party will need to think about what it does to be able to speak to the people of places like trafford to ensure we recover the vote in future years because that is what i am committed to doing and what the conservative party should be committed to doing as well. what is your take on the pa rty's as well. what is your take on the party's handling as well. what is your take on the pa rty's handling of as well. what is your take on the party's handling of the brexit process and what kind of effect did that have on your campaigning?” mean, ithink that have on your campaigning?” mean, i think there is a sense of frustration, that we haven't been

able to get the brexit deal over the line, i don't think that is confined to the conservative party, that is a frustration with parliament. and i think there is a responsibility on all of the parliamentarians to say what i felt in this campaign was a number of people saying, we want this done, and you know, we need to be able to start in many respects move on to the next phase of what brexit will be so we can give people the messages we want them to hear and get people believing in the conservative party again, and that is particularly important in places like trafford because we want to continue to offer good councils and services, all of the things we were proud of in administration here in trafford. we want to do it again so that has to be our focus and to ensure that doing that, with a confidence and with a clear view about what the next stages are going to be, will be very helpful rather than frustrating the electorate. trafford, i am sure lots of viewers may or may not realise was a remain

area, andi may or may not realise was a remain area, and i am wondering what those conservatives supporters are telling you about the process, because it is not the issue we were talking about in colchester and some other areas, it isa in colchester and some other areas, it is a different thing in trafford, so what are your traditional supporters there, who would be remainor, back in 2016, what are they saying to you? well, i think you see a split in the opinion of people who were conservative remain voters so we're have seen across the borough today an increase in the vote for some of the smaller parties, i was a remain voter in that referendum, i am one of those that referendum, i am one of those that would want to say that we now have the result of the referendum, it is incumbent on the party and everybody in party to —— parliament to get to a point where the deal can be completed in whatever form, because people want to see progress and that clearly has been frustrated over the last few months, i don't

think that is particularly, solely a conservative party issue, that is the responsibility of all parties to be able to do that, so if we want to recover this position, then it is essential that is the case. shaun, thank you tojoining us. it is good of you to talk to us so early in the morning. having made a few loss, laura?m early in the morning. having made a few loss, laura? it is interesting hearing him, at one point i believe the trafford council leader and one of the youngest tory leaders round the country, some of the points he was making about the future of the party in terms of cottoning on to demographic change, talking about very specifically about how to not lose northern voter, are a lot of the concerns beyond brexit, plenty of conservatives have. we know that the demographics for the conservative party are looking grim at the moment, labour is far better at appealing to younger voters and the average age of conservative voter

has been going up and up. it sounded asa has been going up and up. it sounded as a senior local government figure from the rising generation does not think the party has a handle on how to solve that problem for them. think the party has a handle on how to solve that problem for themm that fair reading? i think it is very fair, i think actually an observation again is we are doing a lot of stuff on thing like the environment, in my department on children and families, it doesn't get cut through because rightly so, andi get cut through because rightly so, and i am not going to do what dawn did and blame the media for some of our challenges, it is because brexit is still remaining the issue we haven't taken off the table. maybe you are not... i think we need to do that, we need to come together as a parliament and deal with brexit, otherwise we will struggle. dawn, look, if truth be told. on the environment, are you doing as much as you can? i think we are. we are the party for going for zero

emissions... can ijust, can ijust say one thing, if truth be told, the liberal democrat gains tonight should have been labour gains and you are struggling because you are facing both ways on brexit and the sooner we get to a place where you decide to want to deliver on the promise in your manifesto, the better. if you think that labour party is going to support theresa may's bad deal or no—deal you can think again because we are not going to. so it doesn't matter how much you try and bully, which is what theresa may is trying to do, it is not going to happen. what you need to do, what you need to do, you need to do, what you need to do, you need to speak to your current prime minister. your voters are sending you a message. she needs to be more flexible and.... you a message. she needs to be more flexible and. . .. the you a message. she needs to be more flexible and.... the danger for you is you demonstrate you have a tin ear for them is you demonstrate you have a tin earforthem and is you demonstrate you have a tin ear for them and the liberal democrats gains tonight should have been labourgains, democrats gains tonight should have been labour gains, that is the truth. there is a theme, i am just, let us not overstate, more than one

person has said you know, in senior labourcampaign person has said you know, in senior labour campaign roles person has said you know, in senior labourcampaign roles in person has said you know, in senior labour campaign roles in local government said they have a perception problem, with labour policy on brexit, because it is not clear enough, and we have heard again people saying i would like more clarity, these, in some cases these are people who saying who made gapes so they are not complaining about losing seats but they are saying we want more clarity round the policy, do you think that is fair? that is an absolutely fair point. i don't think you can put all of the results we are saying today on that issue, but i think it is a fair point. as we go through each of the stages and take things off the table and be clear about what we do not want, labour's position will be clear. we are the only party that has been clear from the beginning clear. we are the only party that

has been clearfrom the beginning in terms of what was on the table and what we would accept. that came from over 500,000 party members. what we would accept. that came from over500,000 party members. i what we would accept. that came from over 500,000 party members. i take the point that we need more clarity, but we are not going to say we are remaining and we will ignore everybody who voted to leave. that is not what we are as a political party. it has been the policy since conference, so there is along party. it has been the policy since conference, so there is a longtime. nearly a year you have had this policy trying to keep both sides of your party and both sides of the public on board. how should the leadership make it clear? we want to unite the country and find a way forward. at the moment we have to ta ke forward. at the moment we have to take small steps because we are not the ones making the decision. i know some people are talking about what labour is doing as if we were in government, but we are not. we have to ta ke government, but we are not. we have to take all the small steps we can.

at some point we might have to say this is not working and we have to ta ke this is not working and we have to take it to the public and the public has to decide. but we will take it in stages and steps. they are still counting in north east lincolnshire. let's have a look at what is going on there. let's look at the change from last time. five up for the conservatives and five down to labour. i would like to go to grimsby and talk to tim who is there. bring us up—to—date with what is going on. this was a result that few would have predicted before the polling stations open before the conservatives have taken control of north east lincolnshire council. previously it was labour as the largest party running the council with the liberal democrats. we have

seen a big turnaround here. many people i spoke to on the campaign trail were pessimistic, they thought they would face a big brexit backlash. this is a lever voting area. it is a labour voting area generally, but it was 70% leave in 2016. the tories really thought they we re 2016. the tories really thought they were going to face a kicking from the voters here. tonight the theory that the brexit backlash will affect tories in leave voting areas has been completely disproved. i have just spoken to the local labour mp for grimsby who is very critical of labour's brexit policy, particularly in regards to the fact she does not wa nt in regards to the fact she does not want the party to commit to a second referendum. i asked want the party to commit to a second referendum. iasked her why want the party to commit to a second referendum. i asked her why she thought people were voting for the conservatives in a labour voting area and she was as puzzled as i

was. that is an interesting point. in terms of party workers' morale, talk to us a little about what tory party workers and labour party workers have been telling you during this campaign so we have a sense of what the campaign was like. the tories were generally pessimistic, they did not expect to make gains. labour as well. i spoke to one vetera n labour as well. i spoke to one veteran labour councillor who went out onto the doorsteps in grimsby and proudly spent about money spent fixing the pot holes and preserving libraries and preserving local bus routes and he had the door stamped in his face numerous times from people who were not happy with the pa rty's people who were not happy with the party's position on brexit. it has been a very bad night for labour here. we have had a low turnout, 27%, and also a lot of spoilt ballot

papers. talking to some of the election agents, they have seen ballot papers, and there were interesting comments on them. one said a disgruntled voter had attached a post—it note to his ballot paper giving the politicians to whom it may concern a lecture on where they are going wrong with brexit. we would love to see that, it isa brexit. we would love to see that, it is a shame you did not bring that one along. thank you very much. tim ardell in grimsby. viewers should send them in and take pictures and we would have a look. before we asked dorn to pick up on the point, reeta, you have got more results. these are some of the key results. these are some of the key results. these illustrate if you like that theme that is developing now of the main parties are suffering at the hands of independence, liberal

democrats in different areas. these are eight councils where the party who was in control before lost the council. you can see that of these eight councils six of them have gone from either conservative or labour into no overall control and just two, walsall and north east lincolnshire, have been gained by the conservatives. i want to show you a couple of the council is to show you what is going on. let's look at st albans which went from conservative to no overall control. look at the lib dems, the largest party on 25 with the conservatives on 23. the share change, which is a lwa ys on 23. the share change, which is always so fascinating, look at that. plus 19% for the liberal democrats and —13% for the conservatives. let me take you back to the main screen

and go into the world. this went from labour to no overall control. this is now a hung council. let's look at the share change again and you will see it makes the same point. labour's vote share going down by 13% and the main beneficiaries here appear to be the greens. reeta, thank you very much. with all of that in mind, let's bring injohn with all of that in mind, let's bring in john curtice with all of that in mind, let's bring injohn curtice once again. cani bring injohn curtice once again. can i talk a little about the conservative performance and what you are picking up about those strengths or weaknesses in the north of england and the south of england. can we discern any trend? well, indeed we can. as we noted half an hour ago, the labour party seems to be doing better in the south of england than in the north and we

compared labour's performance in liverpool and southampton. the co nve rse liverpool and southampton. the converse is true for the conservatives. they have been losing ground in the south of england rather more than in the north of england. the reason why that matters isa england. the reason why that matters is a lot of the councils in the south of england, the smaller and more rural councils, are counting tomorrow. they had the sense to go tomorrow. they had the sense to go to bed tonight. 0thers tomorrow. they had the sense to go to bed tonight. others are counting into the wee, small hours. this is also an area where the lib dems are also an area where the lib dems are also the challenges. at the moment the conservatives might be inclined to breathe a sigh of relief that the scale of losses are not as great as some anticipated. maybe they should not relax quite so much yet. why is it happening? 0ur not relax quite so much yet. why is it happening? our best guess is it is part of this story developing that if you are the local party that is strong locally, you are the ones

we will take it out on. it is a plague on all your houses. back with you on a short while. i would like to go to bath and talk to tim warren who is waiting patiently, the former leader of bath and north east somerset council. you lost your seat, so commiserations. tell us what happened. we had a bad night to say the least. itjust did not work out. we had trouble at the doors and we expected it to be bad, but not this bad. tell us more, what was being said and what were you being told? it is difficult. the electorate has spoken tonight and they have been very angry. whether they have been very angry. whether they have been very angry. whether they have spoken to us or central

government is another matter. i feel very sorry for my cabinet who have worked very hard over the years and i think they have lost their seats through no fault of their own. they we re through no fault of their own. they were being told that they would not vote for them because of brexit.” think i am right in saying in i think i am right in saying in i think that the full vote is not on. do you think the lib dems might ca ptu re do you think the lib dems might capture it? what is your sense of it? without a doubt, we are having a bad night tonight. you can hear that in the background, the lib dems will ta ke in the background, the lib dems will take control of the council, yes. talk us through some of the factors. let's talk about brexit for example. what were you being told on the doorsteps on that? the people who wa nt to doorsteps on that? the people who want to remain blamed us because we

wa nt to want to remain blamed us because we want to leave and the levers blamed us because we are still there and we had not left. they did not think it was happening and they did not come out and vote for us, it is as simple as that. it is pretty impossible when you describe it that way. what would your message to theresa may be? it is hard to blame one person, i will not blame one person in particular. we have suffered for this as a party and i think the country is suffering for this. let's please just do something. but for you what would that something be? what are you suggesting?” you what would that something be? what are you suggesting? i don't mind admittingi what are you suggesting? i don't mind admitting i voted to remain. however, the vote was to leave and we have to run with the referendum otherwise why did we bother to vote? i would prefer to have a deal and move on. i suppose the prime

minister would say to you that is precisely what she has been trying to do. i think all the parties need to do. i think all the parties need to grow up and get together. i spoke to grow up and get together. i spoke to the labour opposition here and they said if they had got together they said if they had got together the deal would have been done by now. i am the deal would have been done by now. iam no the deal would have been done by now. i am no longer a counsellor so ican now. i am no longer a counsellor so i can say what i like. i would say to allmps, grow i can say what i like. i would say to all mp5, grow up and act for the country. we love your openness. i would like to see a deal happen. i think it will happen. i have had ideas before but they have always been wrong, but i think it could happen before the european parliament. if what we are seeing tonight, if we had european elections, that could make tonight look quite good. we know it could be

challenging for several parties. what would your assessment be of conservative prospects in the european elections?” conservative prospects in the european elections? i think they would be very low, i don't think labour would be much better. if you add ukip and the brexit party in europe, iam add ukip and the brexit party in europe, i am not sure that would be the best thing for us. so, please get a deal beforehand so we don't have to go to the european elections. nobody is interested and nobody wants it. great to talk to you, it is 3:30am in the morning and commiserations and thank you for joining us. yes, thank you, life goes on. the saying of the night. but he did say grow up and sort it out. is that fair? it is very fair. tim is the voice of sensible britain, sensible england. it is

where the prime minister's instincts are at. he is right to say that. dawn had a go at me earlier about the negotiations. look at where labour is on the customs union and listen to what liam fox is saying. the customs arrangement takes all the good things of the customs union and leaves behind things that prohibit us from doing deals with the rest of the world. we should be able to come together and agree a deal and to take this off the table so deal and to take this off the table so that good councillors do not lose their seats because people are so angry we did not deliver brexit on the 29th of march. it was the prime minister's job the 29th of march. it was the prime minister'sjob to do the 29th of march. it was the prime minister's job to do that and it is her government that is failing to get to that place. people in parliament have not been able to come together and decide on a way forward and have for all sorts of reasons convinced themselves and

their position is right, whether it is those who want to deny a referendum and have a second referendum and have a second referendum because people are stupid, or those on the other side who have basically rejected the prime minister's deal. surely you accept it is a failure of leadership. of course people have had entrenched positions for a long time, but what that counsellor said it was almost a direct echo of what the sunderland council leader said, people could not trust the conservatives any more. levers blamed us because we are going to leave and the remainers blamed us because we have not left. surely you must accept that the government has failed to bring people together? i have been saying all night that these results, because we have not

been able to deliver brexit on the 29th of march, we are seeing these results. the message is equally powerful to labour from what is happening in their heartland. the prime minister has stretched every sinew. she has tried everything, including coming to parliament and saying, i believe if we get the withdrawal agreement through. look, we can keep blaming the prime minister dr but ultimately, it is in the hands of us parliamentarians. we have to look in the mirror and say, are we serious? do we really want to deliver brexit, or are we finding excuses to find a way to scupper brexit? actually, a plague on all our houses, including the lib dems, would mean that if we don't deliver this, we will unleash forces that i don't know where we will end up, ha rd left don't know where we will end up, hard left or hard right. populist parties will rise and say, these

elite politicians have ignored you, they have ten years. —— tin ears. compromises were put to the prime minister long before the talks with labour. we are prepared to compromise. so you don't want to remain? we want to come from is and put it back to the people. if the prime minister genuinely wants compromise... prime minister genuinely wants compromise. . .. that is a denial of democracy. going back to the people and saying, is this what you really want, is this the deal that you voted for, or do you want to remain, or do you want to leave without a deal, giving people that choice is democracy. if you were honest, you would say, i will deliver the instruction of the first referendum. ifido instruction of the first referendum. if i do want a confirmatory referendum, it would be between the prime minister's deal, and leaving.

but those options are both leaving. because the people have told us they wa nt because the people have told us they want to leave. the people are said to us, you have to leave. otherwise, what would you say to the 17.4 million people if you remain? nadhim is saying the prime minister has done everything she can. bringing her dealer back to parliament three times without any changes is not doing everything you can. i know it is 3.30 in the morning, but you still have to be honest. you can say the prime minister has tried or she can when she has brought the same deal to parliament three times with no changes. all i'm saying is, reflect on the results in warsaw. could you be honest and say the prime minister has not tried

everything? will you admit that? will you admit that the prime minister has not moved one jot? there is a negotiation taking place. there is a negotiation taking place. the negotiations are taking pics between your two parties. what viewers are going to make of this, i have no idea. you can't say the prime minister has tried everything she can when she hasn't moved one jot. we have talked a lot about the fa ct jot. we have talked a lot about the fact that you are both losing votes. to me, the voters tonight are looking at what you're saying that doing and saying it's not good enough. the prime minister is not compromising, labour aren't compromising. you have accused me of not listening to 17.4 million people think that yes, we are. the point is, people are changing their minds and they don't like what we are being offered. we have seen clearly tonight that they are not happy. in those circumstances, we have to listen to people and think again. and i hope you and i will be on a

similar programme after the european elections, and let's see what happens. my analysis of what is happening tonight is that people are upset that we have not delivered on the 29th march. john curtice sertic — it's a plague on both our houses. not my house! it's not a plague on my house. you have come from a very low post. s base. let's have a look at the scoreboard, shall we? the scoreboard says this. this is numbers of councillors.