to hear your views, but it is good to hear your views, but it is good to hear your views, but it is clearly still very divided. thank you all. much more from westminster throughout the afternoon. say. where it seems that voters have decided to punish both the main parties. good afternoon. we've had about half the results in, and so far they make grim reading for both labour and the conservatives. instead, it's the liberal democrats who are celebrating.

how does it feel to be part of a liberal democrat majority? they've gained more than 300 extra councillors and won overall control of councils like winchester, bath, north norfolk and indeed chelmsford, where lib dem leader vince cable was out this morning, visiting his team. they are very happy. the conservatives are suffering. they are already down a77 seats. they've gained walsall, but lost places like worcester, peterborough and st albans. but the big surprise is that labour is doing badly too. the party gained trafford from the tories. but his party lost both bolsover and wirral. and overall he's down about 72 seats. these are picture ofjeremy corbyn in trafford this morning. just visiting workers in rather heavy rain. not dampening the

spirits of the party workers because they are pleased with the result. we will be talking about other areas we re will be talking about other areas were mr corbyn has not performed as well as some people thought he might. lots more results to come, with more than 100 councils counting this afternoon. i'll be here at my giant touch—screen with all the latest analysis. our chief political correspondent, vicki young, is here with her take on how this might affect the brexit deadlock at westminster. so stay with us throughout the afternoon on election 2019. well, lots of counting still going on and lots of results to come. we have had 116 councils declared. we have had 116 councils declared. we have had 116 councils declared. we have had more than 3000 council seats declared but we have more than 5000 to go. i am just underlining at this point, if you arejoining us

and have not been with us overnight, that there is still quite a long way to go on this story. these are some of the scenes going on around the country. there we have the counting going on in great yarmouth. this is a conservative labour battle. a few uk proceeds there in the past. we are focusing on this in terms of how labour and the tories are shaping up. if we go down to kent, this is thanet. this is where you keep won an overall majority last time. the first authority. it turned into a bit of a shambles because it is now a conservative minority administration thanks to you keep defections. the counting still going on. we are also looking at warwick. the conservatives in warwick are defending their hold on power in an

area that voted remain back in 2016. the dynamics they are slightly different to places like great yarmouth and thanet. we will be looking at warwick as well. another interesting example is york. it is currently run by a conservative lib dem minority administration. labour hoping to make some gains. some parliamentary representation in york in the past. we will be looking at the lib dems as well given how they have done overnight to see what is going on in york macro as well. a few little tasters. let me introduce my panel. layla moran from the lib dems. shadow home secretary for labour, diane abbott. and local government secretary james brokenshire. good to have you with us. brokenshire. good to have you with us. we will chat in just a minute and ask how you are all doing. we will also be talking to vicky young. a quick recap at this point on the

actual scoreboard. it is worth reminding ourselves of what is going on. these numbers are changing as we speak. right now it is the conservative having lost 478. labour 73. the lib dems having put on 322. the greens have had a good night. independents are up. ukip have lost 54. that independents are up. ukip have lost 5a. that is the main scoreboard. we will come back and have a chat with the panel in a moment but first, the news. thank you. the conservatives have lost heavily in the local election results last night. labour also facing a backlash at the ballot box. apparently over the brexit deadlock. smaller parties and

independents have won seats. with results continuing to come in for england and northern ireland, national politics seems to have been a deciding factorfor national politics seems to have been a deciding factor for voters. national politics seems to have been a deciding factorfor voters. lib dem leader vince cable said his pa rty‘s success was dem leader vince cable said his party's success was more than a protest vote. 115 of the council is up protest vote. 115 of the council is upfor protest vote. 115 of the council is up for election have so far declared their results. chris mason has this report. tradition dictates the morning after elections party leaders head somewhere that will allow them to smile. they have not been many laughs for liberal democrats in recent years. but they are upbeat today. i amjust celebrating a really great result here. chelmsford, essex. the story across the country, the lib dems we re across the country, the lib dems were written off at one point but we have come back very strongly. we are the big winners of the night. the lib dems won control of councils

in bath, winchester, north norfolk and the cotswolds. the labour leader has headed for trafford in greater manchester where labour have taken control but they lost control in hartlepool, the world and bolsover. we have won trafford. we have swings to labour in a number of boroughs and councils across the country. that gives us the basis. notjust thurrock and other places. beyond these glum faces, there is a row over whether labour should shift on brexit. some say towards another referendum, others towards getting a deal with the eu sorted. 0verall referendum, others towards getting a deal with the eu sorted. overall the conservatives have not got much to smile about either. yes, they held swindon and gained north east lincolnshire. but they lost control in st albans, broxburn and

peterborough. it is a verdict on brexit and parliament. so my view is we have just got to get this done. that is what people want. independents have done well so far, as has the green party. 16 new councils, cementing our place as the fourth party in england in local government. we are the biggest representation of the remain party in the european parliament going into the european elections. there are plenty more results to come with the party is watching closely, peering into what it might mean for their widerfortunes. and peering into what it might mean for their wider fortunes. and here peering into what it might mean for their widerfortunes. and here at daft o'clock in the morning, was this some cross—party elaboration? 0r this some cross—party elaboration? or perhaps commiseration. following the losses for the conservative party, former cabinet minister priti patel has called for a change in leadership. she says brexit and

impatience with theresa may kept coming up the doorstep. impatience with theresa may kept coming up the doorsteplj impatience with theresa may kept coming up the doorstep. i think are party leadership and our party nationally needs to look at the situation and make some very serious decision is now in terms of where we go. where would you like to see it go? i think we need to change. i don't think we can continue like this. i have been very clear. many of my constituents have said this to me. we need a change of leadership, perhaps the time has now come for that. the ukip vote collapsed overnight. the ukip vote collapsed overnight. the party lost more than 5a council seats. a spokesperson said the party had been in turmoilfor two seats. a spokesperson said the party had been in turmoil for two years but they had taken votes of the main parties. counting is under way in northern ireland. a62 seats are up for grabs across 11 councils. the first few results have started to trickle in. most results are expected later

today or saturday morning. that is it for now. back to election 2019. yes, welcome back to the election centre. keeping tabs on the results as they come in. importantly, looking at each of the parties and asking some searching questions about how they performed. and where they have not performed as well as they have not performed as well as they expected. why was that? vicki young is with me. i am wondering at this point, take us through the main headlines as you see them for the parties. i think it is clear the liberal democrats are having a very good night. the smiles you saw on the faces of the activists after some torrid years, the coalition took its toll, they have been wiped out almost at the general election, their counsellor base has been decimated. this looks like the signs of them starting to come back into it. trying to rebuild. trying to show they can run councils and make

inroads in the area is still where they have always been strong. not necessarily branching into many new areas as yet but they will be absolutely thrilled at that. important to remember they haven't got the chains uk party against them in these elections. they have had a bit more of a free run. it is looking like a bad set of election results for the conservatives. they would say they have been in power for several years, they can expect to ta ke for several years, they can expect to take a hit. i think it could be even worse than maybe they were fearing. and for labour, there isn't much comfort here. this is a party that wants to get into government, that wants to get into government, that has been facing a conservative government in also to trouble, disarray and chaos for a couple of yea rs, disarray and chaos for a couple of years, and yet they are not really making inroads. ithink years, and yet they are not really making inroads. i think this is showing us, along with a surging independents, an appetite for something different. a bit of a

backlash against westminster and the main two parties. why has it happened? we have not been knocking on doors but lots of councillors have. many lost their seats. on doors but lots of councillors have. many lost theirseats. in labour and conservative cases they are looking at councils they have lost and they say they have been let down by the parties at westminster and they think brexit is to blame. that is the message that was loud and clear overnight. we will develop some of those in a moment. let's look at the key results so far before i talk to the panel. let me take you through some of the noticeable —— notable council results which reflect the overall story of lib dem success. largely at the expense of the conservatives. labour not making the advances they would have wanted to make. vale of white horse, this is a lib dem gain from the conservatives. let me just show you on the screen here, the lib dems have gained this with 31 seats.

this was a conservative council. it had been conservative since 2011. the lib dems have gained that. if i show you the seat change, that shows you exactly what has happened. the conservatives have lost 23, almost all of those seats have gone to the liberal democrats. if we go back to the main screen, the other liberal democrat gain on this screen, somerset west and taunton. they say isa somerset west and taunton. they say is a brand—new council. it has been formed by the merger of two councils, taunton and west somerset. both of these councils were conservative. it was largely thought that this new council would therefore be conservative as well, with liberal democrat opposition. in fa ct, with liberal democrat opposition. in fact, look what has happened. the liberal democrats have got it with a majority of one. an unexpected win. the conservatives on ten seats. independents on 1a. a strong showing. the conservatives have lost

31 seats based on the notional aggregate of seats they would have had in the two former councils. let me take you back to the main screen to look at the overall picture. the conservatives losing folkestone and hythe. that is interesting, partly because there was quite a green party surge of votes. that was partly the reason for the conservatives losing that council. better news for the tories in north east lincolnshire. they gained that counsel from no overall control. i have got ashfield here in nottinghamshire. that is interesting. that was a hung council. it is now in pink. that means the independents are the main presence on that counsel. that is another story of this election, of the independents doing very well. a few labour results. bolsover and the world used to be labour. they have lost control. better news for labour in amber valley, where they have

taken this in amber valley, where they have ta ken this counsel from in amber valley, where they have taken this counsel from the conservatives. look at that. labour on 26, the conservatives on 16. this had been a conservative council since 2015. if we look at the seat change, conservative down seven and their seats divided up between labour and the greens. another interesting one is the share change because that gives you interesting insight into what is going on in amber valley because not only are labourgain going on in amber valley because not only are labour gain in their share of the vote but so are the greens and the lib dems and that feeds into this idea, this theme of this election, that it has been a plague on the houses of the two main parties and the smaller parties have benefited. thank you very much. taking us through quite a few of the interesting results and we will talk a bit about what they might mean. there is accounting still going on,

i mentioned great yarmouth earlier in the east of england and some notable gains and losses in the east which is of course very significant electoral area. we can see basildon and st alba ns electoral area. we can see basildon and st albans moving out of conservative hands, tendring is the area around clacton where douglas ca rswell won area around clacton where douglas carswell won that by—election with the strong ukip presence at auto southend—on—sea is out of conservative hands. andrew sinclair is our political editor the east of england. you are in great yarmouth, tell us what is going on. the story of the night as you said it has been the lib dems who have picked up two councils overnight, north norfolk which you mentioned, they doubled the number of seats they had on that council to take full control of it. previously it had been run by the conservatives as a minority administration but the big story of

the night was down in chelmsford. until yesterday, the lib dems had just five seats and now they have 31 which is why you saw vince cable there earlier congratulating his party supporters. the lib dems cannot believe how well they have done down there. and they have had su ccesses a cross done down there. and they have had successes across this very conservative region, making gains in southend, which helped take the council away from the conservatives, and it did no overall control. as you said, it has been a very bad night in places for the conservatives, losing peterborough, basildon and southend, failing to ta ke basildon and southend, failing to take their target council of colchester. they might well lose great yarmouth to no overall control. two other things to note, as vicki was saying, we have seen in the east a big increase in the number of independent candidates getting elected and green party candidates so there is clearly some sort of backlash going on, much in

evidence against the westminster parties. the other interesting things involves spoilt ballot papers. here in great yarmouth, there are no liberal democrats or greens standing so if you want to protest, what you do? normally, in any ward you would have about half a dozen or perhaps a dozen spoilt ballot papers but in some of the wards here this morning we have had 119 spoilt papers, 82 in another, 62 in another. are hearing this sort of thing from other camps across the region. i am told there would traitor appears in quite a few of those spoilt ballot papers and quite a few other words are used which we cannot use at this time of day! quite a few of the papers are left blank as well but it seems there has been a big increase in spoilt ballots. we will pick that up, that is very interesting. 0n the great yarmouth account itself, how is that progressing? tell us a bit about what conservative party workers are saying about their prospects there.

it looks as if things mightjust about stay the same. the conservatives have already lost one seat to an independent and they expect to possibly lose another one or two perhaps to labour who are making a couple of gains. but great yarmouth always used to be a bellwether area. normally, whoever it ran the council would go on to become mp. the current mp is the conservative party chairman, brandon lewis, so labour are making some gains but they say the atmosphere on the doorsteps was so bad for both them and the conservatives that they will be happy if they hold onto the existing seats that they have. labour are making existing seats that they have. labourare making gains existing seats that they have. labour are making gains but they are not making the sort of gains they should be making if we are as close toa should be making if we are as close to a general election as many people think we are. they held on to their councils in cambridge and harlow last night but once again, those are labour stronghold and they should be doing better best and in other parts of the east of england. we have not

seen that much evidence of it and i don't think we are going to see any of labour doing very well here in great yarmouth. interesting. andrew, thank you very much. andrew sinclair in great yarmouth, and we will keep an eye on that result when it comes in. layla, it has been a good night for you so far. coming off some, let's be honest, pretty awful set of results recent years. is this what people are calling just a backlash ina people are calling just a backlash in a general way, like a protest vote, or what accounts for it? you are right, we were coming from a low base but it said the liberal democrats are back. these are the best results we have had by some way since 2003 and in fact, if we had, as we might well over today, into the late a00s, that would be the best local election results this party has had in its entire history. what i was seeing on the doorsteps was it not necessarily a bad brexit, certainly the suppression of the

other party vote might be, but what i was finding in the vale of white horse where we took it emphatically and south 0xford district council, we we re and south 0xford district council, we were not expecting to be the largest party on that council today but there we are. we have a record there, they know we are hard—working, local there, they know we are ha rd—working, local party. there, they know we are hard—working, local party. the liberal democrats have always had their roots in localism. this is absolutely, as vicki said earlier, the growing back of those roots and i think it is a sign we are back and here to stay. it is not people being fed up of the tories and labour and determined not to vote for them, and you are the alternative and the only option available? not at all, in 0xford west and abingdon, i was elected in 2017 and we had shock wins in south cambridge at last year and this was the year we were expecting we would make large gains. if you look at it over the course of time, this has been a slow, steady story that is quite consistent.

liberal democrats where we are in areas, particularly shia, tory facing, remain facing areas, but if you look at other parts of the country, we made gains in sunderland —— shire. this is notjust about brexit, we are re—finding ourfeet and it is about time too. diane, you wa nt to and it is about time too. diane, you want to form the next government, thatis want to form the next government, that is what labour wants to do but it's not just that is what labour wants to do but it's notjust that that is what labour wants to do but it's not just that we want to, the country needs it. all right, that is obviously your goal an opposition. iam i am wondering, what is your honest assessment of making losses, albeit nothing like the tory losses, but you are down 76 seats at the moment. there are more results to come. in all honesty, that does not suggest that the party is in the kind of a spring board position for government, does it? as far as the possibility of a general election is concerned, we would say, bring it on. we have won some of our target

areas, like manchester trafford. the tories have lost over 400 councils and we have lost 70 plus. when we we nt and we have lost 70 plus. when we went into the 3017 general election, the polls had us 20 points behind —— 2017. we made up those points in the course of that election because in an election we get more balanced cove rage an election we get more balanced coverage and fairer coverage under law. we are not frightened of a general election and we believe we can win it. on the basis of this result, and this is real people with real votes voting for counsellors and councils and local services, and with labour making a strong pitch in many areas for folks on that basis, on the local issue basis, not on the brexit thing but the local issue, why are you making losses? what is your reading of the position that is allowing you to lose seats? well, the general issue was, what we were picking up on the doorstep, was that

people were talking about brexit. talking about a national issue in a way that is unusual in local elections. sadly, people were blaming the political class as a whole for the impasse over brexit. not us. if you'll allow me to finish. people were blaming the political class as a whole for the impasse over brexit. 0n the lib dems from look, the lib dems were decimated because of their involvement in the tory coalition. lib dems in london were heartbroken about them getting into bed with the tories and they have come back to their traditional role as a re ce pta cle their traditional role as a receptacle for protest votes. we have seen these searches before and they don't translate into real gains ata they don't translate into real gains at a general election. we say to the tories in relation to a general election, bring it on. james, looking at these figures, you're down a95 at the moment. in all probability that will increase. james cleverly was sitting there many hours ago, saying that it would

not be great if it was up towards 800 or even higher. what is your reading of where you are now? we knew this was going to be a difficult set of elections in terms of firstly the context of this, the high watermark these seats were up in 2015 last time round when the lib dems did have hundreds and hundreds of losses. about the worst result they had seen in 40 years. we had they had seen in 40 years. we had the boost of the general election on turnout and therefore some of it is that the state in the cycle. there is no doubt that brexit has had an impact on this. diane acknowledges some of that and how that has effected my party and it is painful to see the losses we have. but also the labour party where they were expecting to make gains in places like swindon. they did not do it there. places like stoke where jeremy corbyn launched the local election campaign for the labour party and actually they reversed, the concept of skein eight seats in

stoke to a fantastic result. that could be conservatives gaining eight seats. it is painful and tough when i look at those hard—working conservative councillors who have strong records to show it locally that have been impacted by the brexit feeling and that utter frustration out there as to why we haven't sorted it out. we will ask more about that but i want to bring in labourmpjess more about that but i want to bring in labour mp jess phillips more about that but i want to bring in labour mpjess phillips in our studio in birmingham. good afternoon. your take on labour's performance? i mean... ithink the problem across the board for both the labour party and the conservative party, but i suppose i'm more an expert in the labour party, is that we have not had a clear message and that has translated clearly that those who had a clear message last night, and i wish it wasn't true, but this does seem to have been about brexit much more so than any normal local election would have been, they seem to have prospered much better as layla was saying about the lib dems.

i think the reality is that the labour party, people don't know where it stands at the moment with regards to brexit and to be honest, i'm not sure. i don't know what will happen next week i don't know what our position will be. people are going to the ballot box, they don't know what we stand for. and i think people genuinely don't mind if they disagree with it, what they want to see is courage and leadership. people write to me all the time saying i don't always agree with you, they will not always be utterly happy with what we have to say but we should say something. say what? in my opinion, you know what, i'm not even going to sate necessarily what we should say because everybody including a panel what everybody was doing last night is they will say that these results mean that they predetermined idea about brexit was right, or about anything and i'm not going to do that. i obviously think we need to have a confirmatory referendum on any deal before we

even dared to agree to try to bail out the tories. that was my existing position before and it is still my position before and it is still my position and i'm not going to say that it position and i'm not going to say thatitis position and i'm not going to say that it is very clear that that is what these results say although there is evidence for both sides in this. i think the labour party needs to genuinely decide whether they are going to be a party that backs brexit or a party that does not back brexit. all this messing around, faffing about is a nonsense. the point is, you are saying that and dead last night we were talking to the leader of the labour group in sunderland, and he was very forthright —— and then last night. he said the talk of a second referendum is killing us, people hate it and they don't want it. they don't like the idea, the thought that labour will be associated with that. what do you say to somebody in your own party who is saying that to you? i say it's really weird that they then voted for the lib dems and

greens. the idea that protest voting in sunderland about brexit went for the most remaining macro parties, notwithstanding those that voted conservative or for you cape up there, which frankly i find it phenomenal that ukip is still even seen as being slightly credible considering my own personal experience with them recently. at the other thing i think is a problem is the labour party has a problem, if you look at wider data from across this election and others, thatitis across this election and others, that it is gentrifying and it does much better in areas where people are posher and sunderland, i think there are other questions we have to ask about where the labour party might have gone wrong in sunderland. stay with us. this business of clarity, or lack of it, what do you say? i think we have been clear. clear that what we want is a general election. there is nothing in these results to get us to swerve from that. that is not in your gift, diane, that's the problem.

that. that is not in your gift, diane, that's the problemlj that. that is not in your gift, diane, that's the problem. i have been asked about clarity for that we have been clear that what we want is a general election. in the event that there is not a general election, we are prepared to look at the circumstances in which a second referendum would be a way out of the current deadlock but let me say this. we have a more challenging position that either the conservatives or the lib dems. we represent some of the strongest pro remaining macro areas like my own constituency of hackney north but also some of the strongest leave areas. what we are seeking to do as areas. what we are seeking to do as a particle and it's easy for some people to cheer, we want to hold the country together —— to jeer. people to cheer, we want to hold the country together —— tojeer. when this pressing debate is over there isa this pressing debate is over there is a country to bring together and i'm concerned that theresa may may never mention the 48% people that voted to remain and equally the lib dems never mention the 52% that voted to leave and why they wanted

to leave. what we have sought to do, and it is difficult and you get jeered byjournalist but we try to the country together. notjust not just journalists, notjustjournalists, you have collea g u es notjustjournalists, you have colleagues who question the approach. that is the issue.|j colleagues who question the approach. that is the issue. i am sorry that some colleagues don't understand our position but we have set it out over and over and it reflects the position of the party at conference. by no means do we rule out a second referendum. but we are not a second referendum in any circumstances party. we are a party that wants what's best for the country and we are a party that wants to try to bring the country together. it's easy if all we are going to do is talk to leave voters. 0r remain voters. but for a national party seeking government, we have to hold the party together. jess, what do you make of that? as somebody who

has a pro second referendum position, i want to give the country together. you don't just position, i want to give the country together. you don'tjust get what you want. a general election is not the thing that is in front of us. brexit is in front of us. we have to show courage and leadership. and like i say, people loved jeremy corbyn because they thought he was ona corbyn because they thought he was on a that he would come out and say what he thought. what he seem to think on this is a bit like, well, we will see. ijust hunter understand why the labour party doesn't lean into the genuine asset it has, it is meant to be principled, outward facing, internationalist. these are the things that people want to see. and ijust cannot things that people want to see. and i just cannot understand things that people want to see. and ijust cannot understand why things that people want to see. and i just cannot understand why we can't be much clearer. let the tories play with the brexit ball and let it wreck them. why on earth are we allowing it to do the same to us that it has done to the tories for a0 years?

that it has done to the tories for 40 years? hang on a second what is not principled about saying we would like a general election, if we can't haveit like a general election, if we can't have it we would consider the circumstances around a people's vote ora circumstances around a people's vote or a second referendum? the fact of the matter is, how are we going to get a general election? brexit is happening right now. if you go on any doorstep, as the minister for the government had said, people just wa nt the government had said, people just want something to happen. they are sick of this constant impasse. if we say we want this other thing to happen, what is our position in a general action? are we going to be pro—remain? are we going to seek a second referendum with remain on the ballot? what will our position be on this, the massive issue of the time during a general election? i want rid of the tories. i am sick to death of what they are doing to the people where i live, utterly sick to death. but we have to deal with this issue. people can say that at westminster we are failing. that is why they are saying, a plague on all of our houses.

thank you, jas. diane, and that specific point, because people will wa nt specific point, because people will wantan specific point, because people will want an answer, if you go into a general election, what will you be saying? it depends where the bags negotiations are. —— brexit. 0n saying? it depends where the bags negotiations are. —— brexit. on this question we lack courage and principle. jeremy corbyn has gone to the hardest leave voting areas in the hardest leave voting areas in the country and try to say to them that if you are struggling, if you are unemployed, if you have concerns for your children's future, your issues are the same in leave areas as they are in remain areas. we have not done what the tories have done, which is try to scapegoat migrants. we have shown courage and principles and we will continue to do so. vicki, a couple of points you are going to make? more bad news for labour. the confirmed loss of cannock chase council. it is looking like losing kirklees as well. a couple of games but more losses on councils. diane,

what do you think is the way through? there is no general election at the moment. brexit is theissue election at the moment. brexit is the issue facing the party. could it bea the issue facing the party. could it be a deal with the conservatives to get a brexit deal through that is as close to what you want as you possibly can? we have to think about what is best for the country. the deal theresa may is currently offering is not a good deal. the tories, i think you will find, have not moved from their original red lines. the deal that they are offering is not in the interest of the country. is that right, james? if you have moved, tell us where? the talks are ongoing. diane is speaking as if there is no discussion, no sense of being able to move forward in what is described as serious discussions to find that space for compromise, where we don't have a majority of the house of commons. that is the calculus we are confronting. john mcdonnell has been saying this morning we need to fix

brexit. that sense everyone has picked up on the doorstep, it has been noticeable the focus has been on the liberal democrats for the gains they have made, understandably. which red lines are you moving on? i think it is the sense of actually, the real sense that they want to punish both political parties, that is why you have seen the greens, the independents, liberal democrats. there is a strong sense of protest because that fundamental issue of not having got on with this. it does come down to the discussions where we know there is focus around this issue of the customs arrangements, those negotiations between our two parties that are ongoing. 0ur sense is that is serious. we need to find that space. there are clearly discussions that have been taking place around a range of issues such as customs and in relation to those factors on entrenchment of rights on

workers, and the environment, on other issues. to see where there is that space. clearly, we have to come back to both of our parties to see if that garners support. this is complicated. we want to ensure we deliver on brexit. that is the profound message that everyone has given. but we need to ensure there isa given. but we need to ensure there is a solid, robust majority in the house of commons to be able to do that, to get that ratification through and make it happen. diane, if you don't think they are moving, why are you in the talks in the first place? we are in the talks because we want to try and serve the best interest of the country. and as we speak, the tories have not moved ona we speak, the tories have not moved on a single one of their red lines. there can be no basis for a deal without them moving. it is compromise on both sides. diane seems to be saying the labour party is not prepared to compromise. that is not prepared to compromise. that is not prepared to compromise. that is not our sense. 0n the issue of customs, our senses that labour wants the benefit of the customs

union, a frictionless trade. there isa union, a frictionless trade. there is a lot of overlap in terms of what is a lot of overlap in terms of what is in the current political declaration, in terms of advancing that. in the national interest i think we all need to reflect on how we are able to move forward and on brexit. we will be back in a moment. i need to is at westminster. thank you. the big question in all of these as we watch these results come in, and there are still many to come in, and there are still many to come in, and there are still many to come in, is what impact these local elections, possibly the least local elections, possibly the least local elections we have ever had, will have on a possible brexit deal or indeed the future of the brexit process ? indeed the future of the brexit process? to discuss this i have tom newton dunn and stephen bosh, the political editors respectively of the sun newspaper and the new statesman. welcome. tom newton dunn, what is your interpretation of what we have seen? well, the first caveat, we need to be slightly

careful about attaching any massive sweeping important political generalisations on a vote which will almost certainly turn out to be less than a third of the entire country, possibly below 30%. there is a lesson in itself, which is that people are staying away out of protest. there is also a patchy, doing all over the place, the lib dems doing incredibly well in places like chelmsford, which has been a brexit and tori bashing place for a long time. 0verall, one theory is there is anger, there is protest and there is anger, there is protest and there is, not just there is anger, there is protest and there is, notjust with brexit, brexit, whether you are remainer micro or leave as, but with party leadership. thejeremy corbyn factor, thejeremy corbyn personal antipathy, is now beginning to come through. we have had labour mps talking about that. stephen, jess phillips with a thinly veiled attack

onjeremy corbyn saying what phillips with a thinly veiled attack on jeremy corbyn saying what voters wa nt on jeremy corbyn saying what voters want is courage. and leadership. what do you think is the future for jeremy corbyn and theresa may based on these results we have seen so far? the weird thing about these results is that you wouldn't feel confident in saying either of these parties was going to form a government any time soon. logically one of them will have to somehow form a government after the next election. obviously the differences theresa may is a figure we know will not be around for very long. jeremy corbyn is still hegemonic at the top of the labour party. he will have to doa of the labour party. he will have to do a deal with the bits of the party worried about a brexit backlash. the bits of the party worried about a lib dem revival, lots of labour mps are worried about losing their seats ina general are worried about losing their seats in a general election, they will be quite scared at the lib dem revival. can it survive the european elections as well, where it is fighting for the same faults with change uk? change uk have got a lot

more immediate exposure because they are new and shiny but they have no institutional memory, now councillors. i think if you are going to bet on one of those two sides to come out on top, you would bet on the lib dems. they are just a more serious operation. is there a pressure now onjeremy corbyn and theresa may to try to get some sort of deal through, to get brexit over the line, and for the conservatives to get on with other issues, for labour to get on with, especially tackling austerity is the line they have been pushing out in interviews today? there has been pressure for a long while. five weeks ago, six weeks ago, come next week. interestingly, although it is a very unpalatable thing for theresa may and jeremy corbyn to do a deal with each other, because it is so appallingly toxic for their grass roots, both of them are coming with some wildly different perspectives. theresa may has literally nothing to

lose. she won't be the leader of the tory party whether she gets brexit through or not. jeremy corbyn wants to go on and be prime ministerfor yea rs to go on and be prime ministerfor years to come. the pressure on him is absolutely enormous. he has this massive dilemma to make. does he sustain the abuse in the short term, —— save a bit of abuse in the short—term? or does he do a soft brexit deal, split the tory party forever and crucially that gets him out of having to back a second referendum, which he doesn't want, when his party come to conference. stephen, is not a deal between the conservatives and labour right now, what then? endless transition. i think that feels like they most likely place. we are going to end up extending and extending in the hope that one side can get a majority to resolve or not do brexit, as they

prefer. stephen and tom, thank you both very much indeed. it is interesting talking to various people here through the day. so far, especially from the greens, the lib dems, who have been doing really well, they are saying yes, it is because they are strong on local issues, but definitely they argue that they are benefiting from disillusionment amongst conservative and labour voters over brexit. does it leave us any clearer to where we we re it leave us any clearer to where we were a couple of days ago? i am not entirely sure. back to you. thank you very much. and thank you to your guests as well. the prime minister, obviously having been digesting these results overnight, the tories now down 519 council seats, the prime minister todayis council seats, the prime minister today is actually at the conservative spring conference taking place in mid wales, in llangollen, but i think the prime minister experience has not been

100% pleasurable in the sense that we think there was some heckling from within the whole. let's watch it. applause. thank you. thank you, everybody. why don't you resign? we don't want you. the national convention doesn't want you. out! out! out! well! what do we make of that? that isa well! what do we make of that? that is a demand for resignation from we assume a conservative party worker before the prime minister even uttered a word. it is the resentment, i think, uttered a word. it is the resentment, ithink, which uttered a word. it is the resentment, i think, which is going to be quite widespread as well for

both parties, from grass roots, councillors who have lost their seats, seeing their colleagues booted out and feeling extremely resentful at those at the top of the party. interesting also in that speech theresa may using these election results, saying to labour and her own party, look at what is happening here. she is using it as a very clear signal, saying we have to get on and deliver brexit, piling the pressure on both parties to say, we have to focus our minds and get a deal. just one voice but painful for the prime minister at a conservative conference. on a night like we have seen that there are clearly tensions and frustration and upset. i think the reality is that this does not change those numbers in parliament. the fact that people may call for change, but that does not change the arithmetic, and why the prime minister isjust arithmetic, and why the prime minister is just absolutely focused and resolute, as vicki hasjust set on delivering that brexit outcome and that is where her focus and her

attention everything that drives forward on that sense of civic and public duty, to make it happen. we have had a similar argument overnight, which is that a change would not alter the parliamentary arithmetic. but there is a strong argument to say that a change of leader would involve a change in the dynamics of the relationship. for example, with labour. and in the way that the strategy around brexit is being pursued. it is wrong to say, isn't it, that a change of leadership would lead to no change? in terms of where we are with brexit, it could lead to quite a big change. you would be thrust into a leadership contest, into more uncertainty and speculation, precisely at this moment where we have that chance to make this happen. to get the result that will deliver on brexit through parliament. therefore, as we look forward , parliament. therefore, as we look forward, as the time is elapsing to

prevent, and obviously this is becoming more and more challenging in terms of the european elections, but what happens thereafter? the chance to actually stop meps from ultimately taking up their seats properly if we can get that deal through parliament. that is the opportunity we have at the moment. we will have a look at a few results ina we will have a look at a few results in a second but this was in tunbridge wells and maybe we can find out about this but a little story from tunbridge wells. in the paddock wood west ward there was a tie after the tory and labour candidates then drew lots and that meant that the conservatives won which meant that they held the ward in the previous majority had been over 600 so a little tidbit for you from the events of the night, having to draw from the events of the night, having to d raw lots from the events of the night, having to draw lots in tunbridge wells. that is one of the result that rita has. absolutely, we can look at tunbridge wells given you have just

mentioned that story. this was a conservative hold and they are still counting as you can see, there are seven seats to declare. this is rock solid conservative territory, very much associated in the popular mind with the conservatives but interesting things going on within that headline of a conservative hold. looking at the seat change, the conservatives have lost seven seats and who has been appointed? primarily the lib dems but also labour and primarily the lib dems but also labourand an primarily the lib dems but also labour and an independent. if we look at the share change because it is often revealing, the conservative share of the boat is down by 21%, the lib dems at the main beneficiaries —— of the vote. looking at some of the other results we have had in. burnley, that has gone from being macro hung the council with no overall control having been labour since the 1970s and a combination of a surge in

support for the smaller parties has helped tip that into a no overall control. the same in cannock chase in the midlands which was was labour and now no overall control. one more council, stockport, that was a hung council and it remains so, but the nature of the race is interesting there. this was a fairly unusual labour— liberal democrat race with labour— liberal democrat race with labour just ahead and labour— liberal democrat race with labourjust ahead and now look at them, absolutely level pegging on 26 seats. the conservatives have eight and the independents have three and this is the share change. look at that, liberal democrats up by 10%, conservatives down by 8% and ukip is down by 10% of the independents and greens also picking up independents and greens also picking up in the share of the boat is a representative of what we have seen throughout the election. -- of the

vote. as we were going through those results, another came in from craven in yorkshire which is a conservative loss and not one they had been expecting it is fair to say. the result shows the tories on 15th pence on line, labour on three, green on two and lib dems on one, thatis green on two and lib dems on one, that is a difference datum of a difference from last term is that the tories have slipped three, the independents have gained free, no change for labour, greens up one and you keep missing one so that is another loss for the conservatives. looking at the broad pattern at this point for you as a party, layla, when you look at the geographical spread, what does it tell you in terms of how these factors are playing? i think it tells us that a lot of this was on local issues. we are winning seats in areas where you would not naturally think in this politics that the liberal democrats would put up a seat that voted

leave, in the south—west that people suggest we had lost forever, and where we are winning the councils tends to be in those areas because we have bigger numbers but this is a national phenomenon. to suggest is a protest vote i think people have not understood, politics is changing. people don't want the way it used to be done. they want this new change fourth of that is why cap! change uk got so much media attention but we have got the infrastructure and the councillors and the record locally —— why change uk got so much attention. and i want to give a shout out to the greens, it is true they are doing really well which is great but in some places we have been standing down for them and working together in vale of white horse, the one we got there was on a joint ticket and we were putting up joint ticket and we were putting up joint leaflets, talk about grown—up politics, the new politics. is that the way forward? i think it may well be, vicki i think people are sick of

tit—for—tat from the macro on blue, they want a whole other way of doing things and liberal democrats up and down the country have been showing we have been able to do that primarily with the green party. would you be willing to do that at a general election question that we have already said we would absolutely. where it has worked this time is in areas where we have built up time is in areas where we have built up trust. where we understand that actually we don't want to merge, we think we have very different m essa 9 es think we have very different m essa g es to think we have very different messages to give the country but lets face it, the first past the post system is broken and it needs changing but while we have it we need to work within it. interestingly, on the doorstep this went down really well, really well. people were like, thank goodness, this is what it should be like.” people were like, thank goodness, this is what it should be like. i do think it is the way forward. diane, what you make of that? the lib dems are street fighters and they are as robust in terms of their campaigning in the party system as anyone else. robust is one way of describing it. i have heard this from the lib dems before. we are seeing a lib dem

resurgence but it doesn't ever translate into them forming the next government. just on the conservatives, let me say this. i have never seen the conservative party in such a state fault last timel party in such a state fault last time i rememberthis was party in such a state fault last time i remember this was when they we re time i remember this was when they were getting rid of mrs thatcher. every time you turn a corner, there we re tory every time you turn a corner, there were tory mps in a huddle in parliament, plotting. it seems to me that are not the votes in parliament for any deal which theresa may could conceivably bring forward and the only way out of the current impasse is either, yes, a second referendum, or is either, yes, a second referendum, ora is either, yes, a second referendum, or a general election.” is either, yes, a second referendum, or a general election. i think diane being a bit charitable from the situation of the labour party as we have already heard in the course of this programme. the liberal democrats have come back from what was that historic low base. they did lose hundreds of these seats at the la st lose hundreds of these seats at the last time these wards were contested. it comes down to where i think you have seen it conservatives around the country underlining some

of that local message of the delivery of actually keeping council tax down and getting things like refuse collection right, on fixing some of the streets. there have been some of the streets. there have been some powerful local campaigns that have underlined where it is about delivery and how, yes, in places we have struggled to make that cut through in terms of what these elections are actually about. local services, local people, local communities. let's bring in professorjohn curtice. what do you make of it so far? i think layla moran has made a couple of interesting interventions this morning. number one, the liberal democrat performance is not simply a question of the party winning over at remain voters, there is a bit of evidence that the party has done a bit better in remaining macro errors but not overwhelming. rather, as she says, what is striking is that the liberal democrat recovery in places where the party had fallen back, but not fallen back so far that it was

out of competition. if i tell you that in our tea wards, those wards where the liberal democrats were starting off second place, on average there is a very substantial double—digit swing to the conservatives from the liberal democrats and this is one of the key reasons why the loss of conservative seats is beginning to reach the levels it is, even though, as everybody says, it is a disappointing performance. ithink the second interesting... labour is saying they are getting back some of the pavement politics and there is a segment of truth in that. the second interesting thing she said i think albeit in code was to suggest to change uk that it is not a terribly goodideain change uk that it is not a terribly good idea in the long run for them to be competing with the liberal democrats. she has already extolled the local arrangements they have had with the greens to suggest that helps to bring victory and i think there was an unspoken statement

there, as she put it, so long as we have the first past the post system, it doesn't make much sense for us to fight each other. in the european parliament elections on the 23rd of may change uk and the lib dems are going to be fighting each other. because it is a pr system it is not so bad but the truth is the remain side could end up with fewer mps as a result of the split in the vote. the liberal democrats are saying that we are now recovering some of our base and therefore, as a result, it would not make sense for change uk to deal with that. the second interesting intervention this money came from jess phillips, a very impassioned intervention —— this morning. making it clear that she thinks they should have a second referendum and her party should think that fault she claimed the labour party was doing better in what she called posh areas. a bit of evidence for that, where the labour vote is telling to follow a couple

of points on average in leave voting areas than it is remain voting errors and therefore in working—class areas rather than middle—class areas. of course i guess the conclusion she then drew, that because the party is doing badly in a more working class leave areas that they should come out in favour of a second referendum, that is perhaps want that some of her parliamentary colleagues will not necessarily take on board. i think certainly the other internal argument, as it were, that it has clearly been exposed as a result of the result in the last few hours is that argument inside the labour party about what to do about brexit. ina sense, party about what to do about brexit. in a sense, one thing that is perhaps increasingly agreed upon in the party is that may be the days of the party is that may be the days of the party's ambiguity are numbered but reaching agreement as to which direction it should go in is proving rather more difficult. john, many thanks again and we will talk again later as the coverage continues. we arejust later as the coverage continues. we are just about up to the clock on this segment of our coverage. a

sentence each from my panellists because we will be saying farewell to them, one sentence, and i mean it, on where you stand now. the liberal democrats are back and we are here to stay. we are ready for the general election battle. conservatives deliver determined to deliver on brexit and it happen. that was commendably concise! you can all come back! and a final thought from vicki i think brexit is the key to this and the two main parties are going to have to find a way through it and there is not much sign at the moment they can. i think the ambiguity on both sides is a problem unless they can solve it, according to their councillors around the country who have been defeated, they think that impasse in westminster is having a devastating effect on the doorsteps. thank you very much and we will talk again later. plenty of results to come bold we have had 129 councils declared, 119 to come. plenty to talk about and we were back at two o'clock on the bbc news channel

built up in the meantime, thank you for watching and goodbye for now.

a brexit backlash in the local elections — both the conservatives and labour are punished at the polls. between them the main parties have lost hundreds of council seats — voters apparently fed up with the deadlock at westminster. why don't you resign? the prime minister faces why don't you resign? the prime ministerfaces a call to resign why don't you resign? the prime minister faces a call to resign from one conservative activist. she says voters have sent a message to politicians. these were always going to be difficult elections for us and there were some challenging results for us last night, but it was a bad night for labour too. i think people were sending a very clear message, a simple message, to both main parties, to us and the labour party — just get on and deliver brexit.

some of them were local factors and some of