tv HAR Dtalk BBC News May 6, 2019 12:30am-1:01am BST
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hello, i'm ben bland with bbc news. our top story: more than a0 people are feared dead, after a russian plane made an emergency landing in moscow. a fire broke out on the sukhoi superjet just after takeoff. a video on social media shows the plane bouncing as it came in to land. 78 passengers were on board. more than 20 palestinians and four israelis have been killed, after escalating cross—border violence on the gaza strip. the israeli army says more than 600 rockets have been fired into israeli territory since saturday, while it's hit 320 targets in response. and this video is trending on bbc.com. an unlikely model made an appearance at a fashion event in marrakesh this week. a grey and white cat managed to gatecrash the show. it quickly went viral on social media, entertaining cat lovers from around the world. that's it. stay with us.
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and now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. britain's top diplomat, foreign secretary jeremy britain's top diplomat, foreign secretaryjeremy hunt, is at the end of a five nation tour of africa, aimed at persuading this continent and the wider world that post—brexit britain can and will play a pivotal global role. so hardtalk has come to nairobi to talk to mr hunt at the end of his latest road trip. if and when the current brexit chaos comes to an end, how will britain stack up asa how will britain stack up as a source of global power and influence?
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foreign secretary jeremy foreign secretaryjeremy hunt, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, stephen. you on the last leg of a tour of five africa's fastest—growing economies. put yourself in the issues of the leaders you have been talking to. what do you think they make britain today? well, there is tremendous historical affection for britain, but history is not enough and there are now in africa, a very large number of very ambitious, very capable, very determined leaders, who are thinking about the future and they are looking at britain in ofa and they are looking at britain in of a different way and they are immensely supportive of the traditional relationship we have had, which has been largely aid
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driven and from the british public, the live aid type poverty reduction agenda is incredibly important still in parts of africa, but there's another to africa, young entrepreneurs that i met in ghana, the tech business i went to in abuja, the entrepreneurs you see here in kenya, in that business side of africa now needs to become the central motor of our relationship. they look at it in, they see we have got the city of london, we have more tech start—ups than anywhere new, we have your‘s biggest media centre, and they want us to be helping them to develop africa and all those very exciting ways. if you want them to partner with the united kingdom, you've because have to convince them that the united kingdom is politically and economically stable and has a clarity of vision, where it is going. the uk does not have that right now, doesn'twell, brexit
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has obviously been a huge challenge for the uk but what i say to the leaders who ask me this very question is that brexit is actually a very strong sign of the strength of our democracy because you see, the divisions amongst people in britain about our relationship and you are britain about our relationship and you a re reflected britain about our relationship and you are reflected in parliament. -- does it? you see it played out in democratic institutions. let's talk about short—term stability and united kingdom. we do not have it, we have a government, of which you are very member, which right now is in chaos. just a few days ago, we saw the defence secretary fired by the prime minister because she believes he leaked confidential, secret information from the national security council. what does that tell us about the disarray in the cabinet in which you sit? well, we have that issue but we have actually had many occasions in our political history where cabinet ministers have left for a variety of reasons. we
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have not had a cabinet minister of this seniority fired for more than 30 years, and we're talking about the betrayal of the confidences, under the official secrets act, within the national security council. so for outsiders looking m, council. so for outsiders looking in, what does it say, i repeat, about the disarray in your government today? well, i think the fa ct government today? well, i think the fact that the government has taken it so seriously when we have had a leak, and it is a very serious thing when it comes in the national security council, is assigned that britain completely understands how important these things owner is willing to take action. but what i would just make a point, when we talk about political instability, we have a hung parliament in britain, it is an unusual thing in our system to do that and of course that makes it challenging when you have a very controversial issue like exit, what i think we can be proud of is that theseissues i think we can be proud of is that these issues are played out inside these issues are played out inside the walls of our parliament, we are not having shop windows smashed, we
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not having shop windows smashed, we not having shop windows smashed, we not having violent demonstrations up and down the country, and there is a deep sense even inside parliament, even amongst mps devoted remain in the eu, that the will of the people must be respected, that people voted for brexit and we need to find a way to honour that. —— brexit. for brexit and we need to find a way to honour that. -- brexit. and i will get into detail on that in just a moment, but gavin williamson sat alongside you just a few days ago as defence secretary, on the national security council, how disappointed in him are you even that he, according to the prime minister, lea ked according to the prime minister, leaked this confidential information about the government's decision, reportedly, to allow huawei, chinese giant telecoms company, to play a role in the development britain's five g network? well, i have not seen five g network? well, i have not seen the investigation that was conducted by the cabinet secretary. you have heard the prime minister's words. but i respect the fact that if the pie minister believes that he was responsible, she cannot have him sitting around the table at the
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national security council, i also hope this will not be the last word on gavin williamson's can be as defence secretary. he was a very committed defence secretary, very committed defence secretary, very committed to the men and women of the armed services and i think he has a lot to be proud of in his record. he has worn on the lives of his children that he was not responsible for that leak. he has talked about a kangaroo court, he has talked about a witch hunt. he says he wants a full and transparent police investigation, do you believe there should be a police investigation? well, the prime minister has said she thinks the matter is closed. whether the police investigate these issues depends on whether they receive evidence that there could have been a breach of there could have been a breach of the law, and we have to leave it to the law, and we have to leave it to the police to make thatjudgement. there is a very big issue underpinning this affair with gavin williamson, it is about the uk's strategic vision, its relationships
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with the biggest powers in the world, and i'm thinking of because of the united states, but in particular case, china. britain has not really got a clear china strategy, has it? well, i don't agree with that, i think we are a country that has always welcomed china's rise. we think that one of the main reasons why there are so many fewer people across the world in extreme poverty is because of the extraordinary success of china in turning around its economy and lifting lots and lots of very, very poor and destitute people up in terms of their standard of living, and we want to be part of that because we think there are opportunities for british businesses and british people, but at the same time, i'm not sure china has entirely decided itself what role it wa nts to entirely decided itself what role it wants to play in the world. doesn't wa nt to wants to play in the world. doesn't want to sit around the top table as a partner alongside the united states, treated with equal respect? 0r doesn't want to supplant the united states? i think we to have an
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open mind while china makes up its mind as to the role that it wants to play, as to how we respond to it. right, do you see china as a military threat? the pentagon has just issued a new report saying that china is developing military bases around the world to sit alongside its belt and road infrastructure investments in so many parts of the developing world, is china military threat? well, china certainly has the capability to be military threat because they are the second largest armed forces in the world and in the end, we have to find a way for china and the united states to live alongside each other because that is in everyone's interests, and so i think we need to be wary, we need to be careful, but we also need to make sure that we keep the opportunity open for developing the kind of friendship and partnership with china that in the end, i think will be the best thing for humanity. are clearly not sure about china's long—term intentions, you advise
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caution and wariness. —— you are clearly. in that context, bringing it back to the huawei decision, fundamentally important decision to the national security of the uk and its 56 the national security of the uk and its 5g network, do you believe to be the prime minister, has made a mistake in her decision to allow huawei to be part of the 5g development? well, the government has not made a decision and that has been made very clear, subsequent to that national security council meeting. we have to look at our economic priorities, but we also have to look at our security priorities and china would not want its critical national infrastructure to be dependent on another country, and we are just the same, so we have to find a way through this. how important is the us position? let me quote you the words of a senior figure in the state department responsible for cyber security, the us would consider the use of
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huawei's equipment anywhere in a 5g network, an unacceptable risk, and he has warned of specific harm, harm to intelligence relationships with any country who do use huawei in their 5g network. well, the united states are our closest ally and of course, we listen to them very carefully, but they also have a different role in the world, which is that they are still effectively the security guarantor for the world order that we have now, which has led to unprecedented peace and prosperity, so... they are the superpower, we're not, the superpower, we're not, the superpower is telling us you cannot use huawei in the 5g network and expect to continue the close security cooperation with us, including the five eyes intelligence gathering and sharing, that you currently enjoy, if you make that decision. so how important is that to you? well, anything the united states says is important and i think it is very likely that we will look
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to develop an approach that is shared across all the five eyes partners. the united states itself, incidentally, has not yet banned huawei equipment. that is the direction they are heading in clearly. mike pompeo is coming to see you next week, he is clearly, we know it from all the briefings, going to ask you, going to ask the british government to reverse any possibility that huawei will be involved in 5g. what we say to him? we will listen very carefully to what he says and then we'll make our own decision because we are a sovereign nation, that wejust own decision because we are a sovereign nation, that we just make a broader point because i think what you are alluding to here is the central challenge of foreign policy in the 21st century. what we have now is a more autonomous united states, a more aggressive russia, a more autocratic china, the world is changing and for britain, we have to decide what is our role in that changing world order. and we're one of the few countries, in fact the
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only country in the g7, that both spends 2% of our gdp on defence and not .7% of our gdp on development, so we have a strong voice, if you like, on the security side and the value side, and our role in this changing world order is to be, in my view, the kind of invisible ink or the invisible chain between the countries of the world that share our values, because we must never be complacent about democratic values, they are constantly under threat and we need to stand shoulder to shoulder with countries that share these values, and bring together those alliances. because we may not bea those alliances. because we may not be a superpower but we are a global power and we have unparalleled connection. is britain really a global power? here we sit in africa, let's look at the reality. chinese investments and contracts in sub—saharan africa alone worth the hundred billion dollars in the last dozen or so years. in 2018, last
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year, xijinping dozen or so years. in 2018, last year, xi jinping committed dozen or so years. in 2018, last year, xijinping committed another $60 billion to africa. well, we should never be complacent about our position but to answer your question very directly, yes, britain is a global power, we will remain a global power, we will remain a global power, we will remain a global power, let me tell you why. we are the second—biggest military spending in nato, we have the world's language, we organisations like the bbc that have reach across the world, and we have huge pool because britain is the country, alongside the united states, that really put together the international order that we now live in since 1945, the postwar world order that has been stunningly successful in delivering peace and prosperity to a far greater proportion of the human race then has ever experienced that before, but we have to work for it. in my message in africa, where incidentally we're in a country now whether uk is the largest investor, early in the week i was in senegal, where we are about to become the largest investor, and my message is twofold. first of all, it is not
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just about aid, we have the city of london, we have entrepreneurs, we have technology, we have life sciences, we have three of the world's top ten universities and we wa nt to world's top ten universities and we want to be part of africa's business future as well. and secondly, and this is i think relating to the values point you make, some people may be tempted with the autocratic development model, the sort of if we just have a strong man running a country, that create security, allows you to get stuff done more quickly, we are supporters of the democratic development model, because for example, in senegal, where i was earlier this week, they have had peaceful transfer power three times since independence. in ghana, they have done it four times since independence and in the end, the real stability is the stability of knowing that when one regime ends, you will have a transfer of power that is peaceful to the next set of people, and that is a precious gift that you get with democratic systems, and not to be
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underestimated. lets then talk in practical terms about what britain says two nations in africa and elsewhere that want to develop deeper trading and investment relationships. 0ne deeper trading and investment relationships. one of the key elements comes back to our earlier discussion about brexit. they need to know whether britain, in the long run, is going to be in a customs union with the european union, which of course means that britain will not have its own independent trading negotiations with them because it would still be part of the eu for trade negotiations, or whether it is going to be entirely independent. what is the answer to that? i can't say what the precise nature of our trading arrangements will be and. when you come on these trips, leaders say to you that we look to a trading relationship with you but it is impossible to discuss it right now because there is profound uncertainty in your country. no,
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because the 1st half is that i can't tell you right now what the nature of our trading relationship with the eu will be like because we are going through the process. i can tell you that britain has and always will be a free trading nation. we are committed to maximising trade without tariff or quota and african countries benefit from that kind of trading regime now should be 150% confident that that will continue after brexit. you are dodging the fundamental uncertainty which is that if written is still effectively inside a customs union with the eu its ability to forge independent trade deals in africa or elsewhere is clearly hamstrung. theresa may, andindeed is clearly hamstrung. theresa may, and indeed it has been clear, theresa may has made it plain that as far as she is concerned, a no deal is off the table and the chief whip has said that it has come down toa whip has said that it has come down to a choice. you either accept a
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customs union for the long haul or we go to another referendum and put it back in the hands of the british people. which do you favour?” favour leaving the eu as quickly and clea nly favour leaving the eu as quickly and cleanly as we can. i recognise there will need to be compromises on all sides of the house of commons. be it mine or labour because the truth is no party has a majority and no party can impose its vision of exit 100%. are you prepared to accept a deal thatis are you prepared to accept a deal that is a de facto permanent customs union with the eu? i have never supported. ijust union with the eu? i have never supported. i just want to know. what ido supported. i just want to know. what i do know other benefits of a customs which is frictionless trade. as far as african countries are concerned, point i make to them is that you can, that your trade with the uk should be confident that
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whatever is scenario we end up with it will be a great free trade nation and we are not interested imposing restrictions because we do not believe that is the best way to run a government. you have threaded your a nswe rs a government. you have threaded your a nswers to a government. you have threaded your answers to me with references to values and it has been a centrepiece of your tenure as foreign minister to push for press freedom and freedom of expression around the world. you said that defending free media is a central element of british foreign policy. are you prepared to support those fine words with actions against nations which do not respect the freedom of press? i would not have said that i want us to champion this if i did not. in the last 5 years have been the worst 5 years on record for the safety of journalists. last year alone 99 journalists. last year alone 99 journalists were killed in the
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course of their duties. some specifically targeted for being a journalist. and we see media freedom is the thin and fragile line between open and closed societies. of course i want to champion that. it is a question of what britain is prepared to do. 1 of those journalists murdered was khashoggi, a leading commentatorfrom saudi murdered was khashoggi, a leading commentator from saudi arabia who ended up detained in the saudi consulate in istanbul and murdered. we are still close allies, still strategic partners with saudi arabia and we sell them billions of dollars worth of military equipment. let me say this. our relationship with saudi arabia has changed. that terrible murder is fundamentally against our values and what we are committing to do as part of this global campaign that we want other countries tojoin global campaign that we want other countries to join in global campaign that we want other countries tojoin in is global campaign that we want other countries to join in is to say that we will talk to other countries whether they are friends or
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competitors about this issue. and i have had frank discussions with my cou nterpa rts have had frank discussions with my counterparts in saudi arabia about why we think this happened. but with respect, a frank discussion is 1 thing but the reality is that arms sales and the close relationship, it has not changed. the uk continues to provide logistics support to the saudi forces, bombing yemen. we have seen thousands of civilians killed and had a un report co—authored by a british former general concluding that the saudis among other parties to that war should face war crime investigations and, yet, for all of your talk of values, the british government fundamentally remains a staunch ally and partner of saudi arabia. that is a complete misrepresentation of the situation. yes, we have a strategic partnership with saudi arabia which is very
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important for the preservation of stability and peace in that part of the world. however, when it comes to yemen, the fact that we have that partnership has meant that we have been able to exercise an influence that means there is now and has been broadly a ceasefire for the 1st time in an extended period for the 4 yea rs of in an extended period for the 4 years of the conflict. there is hope in the process because of the influence we have with countries like saudi arabia. when it comes to things like media freedom and issues like yemen, what matters is how you use the influence you have. and we will have different relationships with different countries. some countries we will have a friendship with. we have a deep and enduring friendship with the trump administration. when we don't agree we say so but we do so privately but we say so but we do so privately but we exercise our influence that way stop a final point bringing us back to the hero now problems that you face as a member government under
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enormous pressure, your party received a drubbing in the local british elections. brexit chaos continues and people inside your party say that theresa may must go and must go now. everybody around the world sees this, they see a zombie government. how do you cope with that as foreign secretary? zombie government. how do you cope with that as foreign secretary7m is not a zombie government. it is a government with big challenges to deliver brexit with a hung parliament and is determined to do so. i think they are having a tough time in local elections, it is not just us but also the labour party because both major parties promised at the last election to deliver brexit both have failed. be it on our heads if we have another general election and we have not delivered the brexit. that is how democracy works and you are rightly holding it and asked to account. but the real judgement on theresa may and her government and the cabinet in which case it is do we actually, despite
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all obstacles, delivery brexit that the british people voted for? and then, and this is important, do we do want to unite the country afterwards to show the 48% of people who did not want brexit that this is not going to be something that changes the fundamental character of britain, we will not bring up the drawbridge and pull down the shutters and say foreigners are not welcome. we will be even more open looking and internationally minded. an interesting answer and a sweeping answer. theresa may will not be the leader to do that. she said she is going. we you be a candidate for her job or are you running for it?” love being foreign secretary. there are mps already canvassing for your chances. there will be a time and place for those discussions but right now changing our leader would not help get this difficult issue of brexit over the line in a hung parliament. thank you very much. we
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did get through good morning. two key elements to your bank holiday monday forecast. one is the continuing chill. the other is going to be the position of this weather front. this is where the main focus of showers will be, and it will be drifting its way southwards through the day. it's around parts of southern scotland, northern ireland into the start of the morning. it means, either side of it,
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a good chance of a frost around, particularly to the far south of england and wales, and also across northern scotland. temperatures in rural areas below freezing, but here, a sunny start to the day. quite a bit of cloud in between. showers this side, within southern scotland, but brightening up quite quickly into the afternoon. a scattering of showers developing for northern ireland, north wales, the north midlands towards east anglia, particularly during the afternoon, and some of those during the afternoon across the pennines and peak district could be a little bit on the heavy side. now, the winds will be mainly light tomorrow, so if you do get some sunshine, it will feel quite pleasant, but temperatures still down on where they should be this time of year. potentially one of the coldest may bank holidays since we started in 1978. temperatures just about 12 or 13 in the south, still in single figures for many in the north. glasgow could hit around 12 celsius. the wettest rain will be sitting there or thereabouts as we go through into the night and into tuesday morning, just because there's not much in the way of wind around. it's not going to move a great deal. to the south of it, a greater chance of avoiding frost at this time, with a greater chance of cloud.
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a widespread frost to start tuesday morning. so there is a weather front to begin. this is where we're most likely to see showers first thing on tuesday morning. but, as temperatures start to lift through the day, a little bit of sunshine. notice there will be showers breaking out here and there. can't promise you'll get one, can't promise you'll stay dry, but what we will see is potentially a bit of sunshine, and slightly less chilly conditions across the south later. still cold, though, for many. but as we go through the night and into wednesday, this weather system will be working its way in, bringing some mild air across france, and strong, windy conditions, which could just hit the south coast. to the northern side of our low, cold winds, and it's here we're likely to see the rain, so actually more widespread and significant rain across england and wales. they are will be welcome to some in england and wales, where it's been very dry over the past month in particular. we could see 10—15 millimetres quite widely, especially on the hills, a bit more maybe. and later on, as things brighten across the south, some slow—moving, heavy and thundery downpours. for many, though, easterly winds will dominate the northern half of the country, especially where we have the rain in south—east scotland in the afternoon. temperatures at best around seven or eight degrees. that whole weather system will slowly start to pull away northwards and eastwards
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i'm karishma vaswani in singapore, the headlines: more than 40 dead, after a russian plane makes a forced landing in flames. survivors say the aircraft was struck by lightning. israel's prime minister threatens "massive" strikes on gaza, after two days of violence and more than 20 deaths. hello, i'm ben bland in london. also coming up in the programme: a special report on migrant workers in japan. many are victims of abuse and exploitation. translation: after the first week, my body couldn't take it. i was getting sick. i said to the boss "i don't want to work here", but he wouldn't let me go.
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