hello, it is chesty, good morning. west midlands police are investigating whether a video made by a ukip candidate carl benjamin in which he says he "might rape" labour mp jess phillips, breaks the law. she says the comments made her cry and the straight and an exclusive interview she says she partly blames herself. sometimes i would rather someone were herself. sometimes i would rather someone were to punch me in the face than the constant degradation that you suffer as a than the constant degradation that you suffer as a woman than the constant degradation that you suffer as a woman in the public eye. it is constant. it constantly belittles you and makes you blame yourself. you blame yourself? i blame myself for some of this.

a school in great yarmouth which has set up a foodbank for parents, offers free hair cuts and had a whip round to give parents £10 for their electricity meter says it feels like it's having to act as the "fourth emergency service" because of issues still being caused by universal credit. this is majorly important for me and my family. without the food bank we would be stuffed. i would have to go out stealing. you would have to go out stealing. you would have to go out stealing. you would have to go out stealing without the school? yes. lady gaga did not disappoint with her food outlets. yes. lady gaga did not disappoint with herfood outlets. she ended up stripping down to her underwear. of course!

hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until iiam. later we will be talking about tiled exclusions and a report today which says that exclusion from school should not mean exclusion from education but it seems some children are slipping through the cracks. tell us if your child has been excluded from school. this report recommends head teachers should be made accountable for kids who are excluded. first the news. west midlands police are investigating whether a video made by a ukip candidate in which he says he "might rape" labour mp jess phillips breaks the law, this programme can reveal. carl benjamin, seen here standing on the left, who is a candidate in the upcoming eu elections, sent her a tweet in 2016 saying: "i wouldn't even rape you" — then last week shared a video on youtube with another reference to rape. it was one thing when he was just

some idiot off the internet with a load of bros following him, but it's a different thing when he's standing on the same platforms that i'm standing on, that he will potentially go to a parliament himself, an elected representative, when he said these things. and i cannot believe our system is so weak at the moment that that's allowed to happen. we will have the interview coming up. schools in england could be forced to include the exam results of pupils they have expelled as part of proposals to reduce the number of children who are excluded. an independent review, backed by the government, says action needs to be taken to ensure permanent exclusions are used only as a "last resort". theresa may will meet the chairman of the 1922 committee of conservative backbenchers today as pressure for her to set a firm departure date as party leader intensifies. it is understood that the prime minister will have discussions with sir graham brady after the committee requested "clarity" on when mrs may will stand

down and how she might trigger a leadership contest. cross—party talks over brexit are also set to continue today. the inquests are expected to begin today into the deaths of those who died in the london bridge and borough market attacks almost two years ago. eight people were killed by three men who were then shot dead by armed police. the inquests will examine the circumstances of each death as well as how the leader of the attack was able to plan it, even though he was the target of an m15 investigation. two journalists who were jailed in myanmar for reporting on the involvement of the security forces in the killing of rohingya muslims have been freed. the two men, who work for the reuters news agency, were released as part of an amnesty that included thousands of other prisoners. more than 5,000 people fell victim to fraud last year while booking a holiday, according to new research. the travel association, abta, says they lost on average more than £1300 each. that includes spending on bogus airline tickets, accommodation or organised tours.

congratulations have been pouring in to prince harry and the duchess of sussex on the arrival of their baby boy. the couple have yet to decide on a name for their son, and it's not quite known yet when we might get a picture of the baby. late last night the duke and duchess of cambridge joined the well wishers saying they're looking forward to meeting the latest addition to the family. the "who's who" of the celebrity world were out on the red carpet in new york last night for the annual met gala. organised by vogue editor anna wintour, it's one of the biggest events on the fashion calendar. championing this year's theme of ‘camp' were the likes of harry styles, serena williams, kim kardashian and katy perry. katy perry is amazing. you will not even know it is her. she is a chandelier. but it was lady gaga who showed everyone how it's done by changing four times as she made her way up the red carpet. she ended up in her underwear.

west midlands police are investigating whether a video made by a ukip candidate in which he says he "might rape" labour mp jess phillips breaks the law, this programme can reveal. carl benjamin, who is standing in the upcoming eu elections, sent her a tweet in 2016 saying: "i wouldn't even rape you" — then last week shared a video on youtube saying "with enough pressure" he "might cave". in it, he said: "there's been an awful lot of talk about whether i would or wouldn't rape jess phillips. i've been in a lot of trouble for my hardline stance of not even raping her. i suppose with enough pressure i might cave. but let's be honest, nobody‘s got that much beer." james philip still does she partly blames herself and estimate she has had over 10,000 messages of rbs and it makes her think twice about wanting to get the top job ——

it makes her think twice about wanting to get the topjob —— of abuse. we have been having this conversation for about five years. threats against politicians and candidates and people, political activists, it is not a new thing, yet we are still not able to get through thejudge yet we are still not able to get through the judge of that. this is what carol benjamin said in his video. i know you have not watched it. he said there's been an awful lot of talk about whether i would or would not rapejess phillips. i guess i could or could not cave but nobody has got that much here. what do you think about that? the comments were transcribed and sent to me bya comments were transcribed and sent to me by a journalist on my initial feeling was that it is just the same man doing the same thing. he only

has one thing. he is having a go at me and that is all he has got. i was in the bank and the person i was talking to in the bank said to me are you all right because i was having to respond on text message andi having to respond on text message and i looked up and said i am absolutely fine, and i realised i did what all women do in these situations, i had been putting on a brave face and pretending it was all fine andi brave face and pretending it was all fine and i could cope and it dawned on me that for four years essentially this man has made a career out of harassing me. i felt harassed. i felt like how career out of harassing me. i felt harassed. ifelt like how could somebody say they would play rape me at first? he is standing on the same platforms i am standing on. he will potentially go to a parliament and

self as an elected representative and he has said these things and i cannot believe our system is so weak thatis cannot believe our system is so weak that is allowed to happen. you cried when you went home. that is allowed to happen. you cried when you went homelj that is allowed to happen. you cried when you went home. i cried in the street in birmingham because i felt the enormous wet of years and years of abuse. it is not that i am frightened for the credible threat to me, actually i am not frightened anyone is going to hurt me. you do not fear for your physical safety. anyone is going to hurt me. you do not fear for your physical safetylj like living my life like a normal person so like living my life like a normal person so i do not like that creep and very often. but i fear for this my mental health, actually. this is like coercive control. sometimes i would rather someone were to punch me in the face than the constant degradation that you suffered as a woman in the public eye. it is co nsta nt. woman in the public eye. it is constant. it woman in the public eye. it is co nsta nt. it co nsta ntly woman in the public eye. it is constant. it constantly belittles you and makes you blame yourself.

you blame yourself? i blame myself are some of theirs. i blame it for so are some of theirs. i blame it for so long and for not doing more to try to stop it. i blame myself for not having for the past four years to have changed directly the electoral commission rules that mean they are actually completely, bare hands are tied in this situation because people like me in westminster did not do enough to stop what is essentially the rise of fascism and i blame myself a little bit for that blame myself putting on brave face. i know if i was talking to me, and i have talked to many people in my situation... before you we re people in my situation... before you were a politician that is what you we re were a politician that is what you were talking to people about. u nfortu nately we have were talking to people about. unfortunately we have been conditioned and i have been conditioned and i have been conditioned as much as anyone else. we co nta cted conditioned as much as anyone else. we contacted him for a comment and he did not get back. previously he has said any subject can be the

subject of a joke. what do you say to him? this whole thing about how context is key and i was onlyjoking is being used to cover what i believe to be the rise of acceptable fascism in our society. i do not believe anything can be the subject ofa believe anything can be the subject of a joke. what he says is not even funny. i like a joke. of a joke. what he says is not even funny. i like ajoke. i of a joke. what he says is not even funny. i like a joke. i am also using humour especially in political discourse because it reaches out to people. what he is saying is not funny. if your job people. what he is saying is not funny. if yourjob has to have an actual victim then your craft of making jokes is very pure if you are laughing at someone rather than with them. you have gone completely wrong. why do you describe this as fascism? we are accepting on a low level the rise of intolerance as

being part of our discourse. we are allowing people to say things like i was onlyjoking. it is notjust that, he has used terrible racist flowers. —— slurs. no one down the pub has ever threatened to play dash—macro rape me. if you promote

rape... i mean a lifetime ban. if you promote rape and sexual violence and the discourse that makes humour of rape and sexual violence then you should have a ban. police are investigating whether what carl benjamin has done has broken the law. in the past you have talked in the commons about you being sexually assaulted when you were 19. and up against a wall, a man put a hand assaulted when you were 19. and up againsta wall, a man puta hand up your skirt, you said it tell if i do, is there a link between language like carl benjamin has used and rape and violence? absolutely. a link between the idea... rape is an act of violence to control somebody subordinate to go. it is never about

sex. what carl benjamin is trying to do is to control me and make light of the things that control women. this discourse being allowed to go on makes women unsafe, notjust in the commons but across the country. if we think this is just a joke and that rape and sexual violence is not to be taken deadly seriously women in the country, children and men are no longer safe. you said in an interview recently you would like to be prime minister. 1 think interview recently you would like to be prime minister. ithinki interview recently you would like to be prime minister. 1 think i would be prime minister. 1 think i would be good at it. does this make you think twice? absolutely. the infringement on my life in the last couple of weeks that makes me feel like i should stay at home but i will not go out in public, but i will not go out in public, but i will just will not go out in public, but i willjust go and hang out at my mates‘ houses, that would be tenfold worse. the things that would not

wa nt worse. the things that would not want me to reach the echelons of height in politics is the idea i wa nt to height in politics is the idea i want to carry on having a normal life and being a normal person who can go under the school run without having to worry about it and go out and dance with my mates at the pub without millions of people taking photos of me. absolutely, the threats that you get at high level politics, although at least they have protection, obviously i have just come here on the tube and i woke around like a normal person. just come here on the tube and i woke around like a normal personm it possible for you to estimate how many sets you think you have had in the last year? two years? credible ones that are direct threats that are like we wish thatjess phillips was dead or are we want to rape her, about ten in the last year. in

credible threats, people fantasising about my killing or seeing things like it should have been me instead ofjo cox, stuff about we would not even rape year. thousands. tens of thousands? probably. i sweep most of them aside so i do not think about it. do you want urgently the prime minister, parliament, to change the law and treat misogyny as a hate crime? absolutely. this is not the first time i have said this. it is urgent. totally. carl benjamin there would be a clear crime against ms misogyny was a hate crime but a p pa re ntly misogyny was a hate crime but apparently this is fine, there's nothing illegal apparently about him saying that although i think the

police... they are investigating. from the point of view of hate crime there is nothing on him from him saying that he would rape me force if drunk. being ambitious, this kind of horrific language, this horrific abuse, makes you think twice, you know that some people would say that means they have one. totally. i will not let them win. i am annoyed at myself for putting a brave face on it when i feel like breaking down. however there is nothing that these men can do to me that. me pushing forward because the thing that scares me more than standing up to this is not standing up to it, appeasing it. i this is not standing up to it, appeasing it. 1am this is not standing up to it, appeasing it. i am frightened if i we re appeasing it. i am frightened if i were to run away because of that to me are my children what kind of society to be 11? that frightens me more than standing up and taking slings and arrows. thank you.

someone on twitter says it is wrong that this vile man was allowed a public forum. james says ukip this is disgusting, started. another person says it is shameful, it is threatening violence, surely illegal. another tweet, my emotions cannot express my anger at how she is being treated. west midlands police are investigating whether that video brea ks investigating whether that video breaks the law. we'll hear from a school in great yarmouth in norfolk which has started running its own food bank and offering free haircuts as it says some families are struggling financially because of issues still being caused by universal credit.

the prime minister is expected to be asked to give a firm date for when she'll quit downing street, at a meeting later today. the government and labour are also getting round the table again to discuss brexit. norman is at westminster. labour's shadow chancellor said at the weekend he didn't trust mrs may. is he preparing the ground for these talks on brexit between labour and the tories failing? the odds against him succeeding are enormous but where we are now is probably today is the best chance the prime minister is going to get of striking a deal because in the aftermath of the local election crashing for the tories, pretty bad result for labour, the hope that acted a shock therapy to the political class and to theresa may and jeremy corbyn, forcing them to try to do some sort of deal. from

jeremy corbyn's perspective he has to look at the results and be nervous about what is happening and there was seats where labour leave supporters seem to abandon the party and there is a broader view amongst jeremy corbyn supporters that if they want to get on to talking about austerity they have to get brexit started. it is hugely difficult to doa started. it is hugely difficult to do a deal but today is probably the best chance of really making progress. what about the view that it would be politically damaging for labour to help bail out this feeling prime minister? whateverjeremy corbyn does, all options are bad. there is no happy solution. if you are is playing around with brexit he risks losing leave supporters. if he does do a deal he will lose support

from running campaigners. there is not a good outcome but if you take the view thatjeremy corbyn seems to have been avoiding connecting to another referendum and if you accept that in the party manifesto there is a commitment to deliver on the referendum i think he will begin to shuffle closer to theresa may, even though that may risk an almighty row and a split within his own party. the prime minister's future, how are tory mps who want to get rid of her going to get rid of her order they have to wait for her to step down? it is pretty clear she is not going to walk so the next game plan is to wait for the european election results in a fortnight which most tories think i'm going to make the local elections look like a stroll in the park. they are expected to be catastrophic because nigel farage and the brexit party are likely to

hoover up the solution tory voters. in the aftermath of that thinking is that the 1922 committee, the main grouping of backbenchers, will red raft grouping of backbenchers, will redraft their rules allowing any hourly leadership contest and many of them want shot of theresa may by the end ofjune so they can have a leadership contest, which in many ways is under way, over the summer, to have a new leader in place by the party conference in october. thank you. great yarmouth in norfolk is one of the most deprived towns in britain. it was chosen as one of the first places to test universal credit, the government's flagship welfare reform. but the head teacher at north denes primary school says it's put an extra burden on struggling parents. she says the school has become like a fourth emergency service washing pupils‘ clothes and cutting their hair, as well as setting up a food bank. recently they even had a whip round to put £10 on an electricity

meter for parents who'd run out of cash. as part of a day of coverage looking at the challenges of life in coastal britain, reporter ashley john baptiste went to visit the school. great yarmouth — like many coastal towns, deprivation is an issue here. i would have had to go stealing, but i don't. you would have to go out stealing without this school? yes. and it is something one primary school in the area knows about all too well. at times, we feel like we could almost be the fourth emergency service. sharon is the school's care and support worker. she is going above and beyond her regular duties by running a food bank at the school. it was set up to meet the needs of those families who struggle to make ends meet. michael's daughter attends the school. i will start with the breakfast. right, what do you prefer? cornfla kes 0k? yes. what did you get?

i got some food to last me and my children and my partner for a week. so it actually lasts us till next week. are you embarrassed ? lam embarrassed. the first time i picked up at a food bank, i did not realise i could pick it up early. and i arranged to pick it up at ten past, quarter past three in the afternoon. five minutes before my daughter came out and i got every other parent looking at me. i do not like asking for help if i can't... if i can help it. i would rather try to do it all myself. why do you have to do this, why do you have to come here? it is because what we are on... we are on universal credit. they think we can live on the money they give us. and we can't. how important is the school? this school is majorly, majorly important for me and my family. without the food bank and without this school, we would be stuffed. i would have had to go out stealing, but i don't. you would have to go out

stealing without the school? yes. that is a pretty honest thing to say on camera. i am sorry to say, but that is it. there is no other way you can do it, because without the food banks, with this school, you haven't got nothing. you lose everything. it was head teacher debbie whiting's decision to start the food bank last autumn in response to an increase in students turning up to school hungry. that literally came from one child coming into school saying, "can you help my mum, we have no food?" well, in orderfor a child to be able to learn, to come into school ready to learn, there is a raft of things that need to be in place. first of all, they need to be fed, they need to be warm, they need to feel safe. it is difficult. we have had parents who have found it difficult to manage financially to actually feed their children.

because of... really the introduction of universal credit has caused huge problems there. great yarmouth is one of the first towns in the uk to roll out universal credit. it replaces six benefits with one monthly payment. the government says it is a simpler and fairer system. but this school says some of its parents are struggling. one of those parents is lee. he is learning to cook at the school, alongside others going through tough times. we have had to claim as a joint partnership, universal credit. we were waiting eight weeks for universal credit payment. so, in the meantime, the school was a great help, giving us food parcels. and the cooking that we are doing now was a real good help for us. the lessons aim to help those families who may not have the money and skills needed to cook healthy food. in the first session, only one of the parents had ever chopped an onion, so we are starting fairly basic. but now, really, the skill

set is much better. they are able to put these ingredients together to make a decent meal. the school also provides free haircuts to students who cannot afford them. why is the school doing this? budgets, funds, universal credit. you know, everything has a knock—on effect. according to the school's mental health specialist, universal credit is having a direct impact on children's mental wellbeing. the changing universal credit has made it massively different in terms of having no weekly money, that they knew something was coming in every week. but it then moving onto a monthly basis. having to re—budget for that. also the stress of that time was huge on the children. but the school's ability to help disadvantaged families now faces a new threat. the school budget is being cut. staff will have to go.

on a personal level, it is not what i came into thejob to do. i did not come into thejob to make people redundant. ididn't come into the job to make all these cuts. i came in to educate children and give them the best chances. and, with all the things that we provide and everything that we offer, obviously, you reduce the staff, you are reducing your capacity. debbie works in the library. herjob is on the line. are you scared about the future? yeah, because that means me going back onto benefits. that universal credit, you know, getting back on there. because your money changes. and then am i going to end up being one of these that's going to rely on the food bank that they have here — who knows? yeah, don't know. i am a single parent. i've got children. one of those things. it can't be helped.

good thing we have these. yeah, normally have them for everybody else, but, yeah. it's just one of those things that's going to happen. it can't be helped, but, education, they know best. a dwp spokesperson told us that: "it cannot be claimed that universal credit is driving the overall use of foodbanks". they said the government has listened carefully to feedback on universal credit and made significant improvements so that people can get paid on day one. the statement went on to say that the government believes it's getting the balance right by supporting vulnerable people who need it most, while at the same time helping people get into work faster — which it says is the best route out of poverty. it's one of the biggest events in the world's fashion calendar and the met gala in new york certainly lived up to the hype, last night. newsbeat‘s sinead garvin is here to talk us through those amazing outfits.

i think they have outdone themselves this year. this event is how the rich and famous to fancy dress. we go to rich and famous to fancy dress. we gotoa rich and famous to fancy dress. we go to a chip shop and get a dolly pa rton go to a chip shop and get a dolly parton outfit and these guys... speakfor parton outfit and these guys... speak for yourself. it's an annual event, benefit gala for the metropolitan museum of art in new york. each year, there is a theme. this year it was camp: notes on fashion. make of that what you will. it coincides with the political activist susan sontag's exhibition, an essay she wrote in 1964 called notes on camp and they take the theme and then run with it. anna wintour, the us editor of vogue who puts this on, she has to approve every outfit that will walk up that red carpet. 0k. lady gaga, she would have had to approve four in one outfit? yes. lady gaga was on the

committee this year, basically, they look at what the theme is and help decide outfits, etc. she started out ina hot decide outfits, etc. she started out in a hot pink ball gown. she had all these men with umbrellas. it wasn't raining but, you know. that came off to reveal a black ball gown and underneath that, another hot pink slinky number. she looked shocked it was coming off. and the final outfit, not like lady gaga at all, her underwear and a little thing that she is carrying. fantastic. you can kind of just that she is carrying. fantastic. you can kind ofjust go wild with the theme. let's go through some more, who else stood out? harry styles also on the committee this year. he was ina also on the committee this year. he was in a metrosexual outfit, if you like. a beautiful sheer black gals. gucci, apparently. one pearl earring. it is a jumpsuit.

gucci, apparently. one pearl earring. it is ajumpsuit. it's all in one! -- black shirt. a lot of outfits to look at. it was amazing. let's talk through some more. katy perry. i don't know. i think let's talk through some more. katy perry. idon't know. i think she sometimes misses the mark. serena williams here, trainers, i love it, where what you want. beautiful lemon dress and all these beautiful butterflies and flowers. lady gaga dressed as... katy perry dressed as a chandelier! idon't know, not for me. what do you think? terrible. we talked about harry. let's be guided by the pictures, if they keep coming and see who is next. the kardashians we re and see who is next. the kardashians were there, we must have pictures of them because they never miss a red carpet, do they? any second now the whole family will pop up on the red carpet. kim with her impossible figure. she is in a nude outfit. i

don't know if we have a picture of kanye who is just wearing a black zip upjacket, kanye who is just wearing a black zip up jacket, similar to kanye who is just wearing a black zip upjacket, similar to one my dad actually has. laughter travis scott on the end who is kylie's boyfriend. he has a military vibe going on but blending into the background where the girls are taking centre stage. not keen on krisjenner‘s wig, idon't think it works. kylie and kendall, the two youngest sisters, is that camp? i don't know, it's just kind of extravagant, i guess. i'm sure a good time was had by all. expensive time, the tickets cost a lot of money. how much? thousands. tens of thousands? i couldn't afford one, let's put it that way. thank you. still to come: "barbaric and immoral" or "helping animal conservation", different views on animal trophy hunting. now the environment secretary, michael gove, says he's "cautious" over a ban on imports.

there's been a call for big changes to be made to the way the school exclusion system works. a report by a former education minister says the current system is "bizarre" and means schools a re left totally u na ccou nta ble for the pupils they kick out. the report says headteachers should be made responsible for the education of pupils they exclude, which includes finding them an alternative place and taking their exam results into their league table rankings. it says this would help stop off—rolling, where schools remove, or encourage parents to remove, a child, because it's better for the school, not necessarily the pupil. last year, we broadcast exclusively and live from a pupil referral unit, where some children go if they are excluded from mainstream education. kayden lives with his nanny and granddad. sometimes we do family game night. what do you play on family game night?

we playjenga. and pie face — a new one. granddad? yes. when kayden came into our life, then i realised there were more issues going on than just a typical little boy. the darkest point, i think, for us, was knowing that he was having really bad meltdowns at school and the school was unable to manage that. he was climbing up on furniture, he was lifting up tables, throwing objects around the classroom. it was just really disturbing for other children to see. leave me alone! i just want to be left alone! ok, i can take you... i want to just be left alone! i want to be left alone.

you want to be left alone? it's not safe for me to leave you here. iwant to! i can leave you alone. i can leave you alone, but not here. yes. here is not the place. i can leave you alone inside the classroom on the blue chair. it could be that they're on a spectrum and not yet diagnosed. it can be a parental issue, it can be something that has affected their home life. there are so many different issues, but we need to drill down to what's going on or what has gone on for this child, for these children, and try to help them, try to support them. not that anyone necessarily says anything to me, but you can feel the, i suppose, the pressure and the eyes staring and cruz being the odd one out in school, the troublemaker. like i said, ididn't really talk to the other parents about it, but i always felt the stigma. that was hawks went pupil referral

unit in north—east london. that was an outstanding facility, inspiring head teacher and staff, i have to say. we can speak now to jacqui buist, her eight—year—old son has autism, was excluded from school and she says she received no support from the school towards his future education. also with us ian fenn, head at burnage academy for boys, an inner city school, serving deprived wards in manchester. and to nadhim zahawi, education minister. thank you so much forjoining us. jackie, this report says head teachers and the school must take an interest in a child once they are excluded, what support did you get with your boy when he was excluded. firstly, the school asked us to bring him in for part time. he was excluded for one weekjust before the end of the year and we were

asked to bring him back to school and we were informed that he was going to be part time from 9am until 1pm. initially that was going to be for one term and that term dragged on and! for one term and that term dragged on and i kept asking when was he going to go back to full time, he kept asking. itjust kept dragging on and on. i got legal advice and was informed that it was illegal to have an unofficial exclusion and i informed the school. they kept insisting that that was how it was going to be. until it basically came toa going to be. until it basically came to a head and we were informed that there was no place for him in the new year. in that time, i was having to look for a new school for him. did they help you in any way? not at all. i had to do my own research but because the hours of his schooling from 9am until 1pm, i had to fit in trying to find somewhere in those hours. we looked at independent schools, we looked at schools outside of london. sorry to

interrupt, but did you effectively feel that the school just dropped you and your son, once he was excluded? it sort of felt like there was two camps, really, because the senco in the school was very helpful. she spoke to external people to try to get some help within the school. we came up with a plan and then the head teacher would overrule it. and would say, that's not what is going to happen. it kept feeling that the head teacher was forcing the issue that there was no place for him in the school. that interesting. let me bring in the education minister, thank you for coming on the programme. i want to know how, in practical terms, you will make, for example, that head teacher accountable to jackie and her child when the child is excluded, what does it mean in practical terms? thank you very much for having me on. in this report, we

are responding to ed timpson, to suggest that school should be accountable, rightly, for pupils they exclude. i'm asking you how. we will consult with head teachers to make the system as fair as possible. what could it include, do you think? for example, the school has to be accountable for the grades for that child and, of course, the future of that child. for example, the moment you exclude should not be the end of the education of that child. including their exam results in the previous school's league tables? and also where they go next, the start ofa also where they go next, the start of a really positive may be new place for that child in alternative position as you're very good piece demonstrated. two alternative provision. alternative provision and pupil referral unit's around the country. we are making further investment to improve alternative

provision overall. the idea is that we asked edward timpson to do this report because far too many people... 78% of exclusions last year we re people... 78% of exclusions last year were of children with special educational need. vulnerable groups of children. as the children's minister, where vulnerable children is my priority, that is why i wanted edward timpson's report to be conducted as thoroughly as possible. do you think you will be able to bring down that number? let's repeat that stat again because it gives such insight, 78% of permanent exclusions are issued to children with special educational needs. what do you want to get that down to, what kind of feather? let me give you another stark figured... what kind of feather? let me give you another stark figured. .. what do you another stark figured. .. what do you want to get that down, first of all? down as quickly as possible. -- what kind of figure. all? down as quickly as possible. -- what kind of figurelj all? down as quickly as possible. -- what kind of figure. i will tell you. 85% of schools, as edward timpson has discovered, has not excluded a child in the 2016—27 team year. so, down to zero? whereas,

0.2% of schools have excluded more than 10% of children. —— 2016—2017. as we saw in your piece, from pupil referral unit the school were being so referral unit the school were being so disruptive to other children, which can be detrimental to their future, especially the most disadvantaged family. i'm going to bring in ian fenn, the head of dot to dot that one final statistic, children on a free school meal are 45% more likely to be excluded. children on a free school meal are 4596 more likely to be excluded. that is why this report is so important. why is that? we need to make sure that schools are accountable for the children they exclude. we need to make sure the system overall means that if a child is excluded... why do you think that is? i would be really interested in your view. as edward timpson has demonstrated, there are variations, there are some very good practice and we want to learn from that. make sure that local authorities are working with schools, with the school leadership to get to the bottom of this, to make sure that we don't have a

situation where the most vulnerable children are the ones being excluded. ian fenn, you are a head teacher, is it by the government is now expecting you to deal with... be accountable for pupils you have excluded? it depends on what they come up with. let's use that example that the education minister gave us, the excluded child's exam results would be included in your exam league tables. i think it misses the point. you don't agree with that? not necessarily, no. we want to reduce the number of children being excluded. the minister rightfully says, and you asked him a question on why is it that so many sen children for so many on free school meals are exclude, that is what we should be asking, not interrogating data about the numbers of kids being excluded from certain schools. there is definite evidence that some schools feel the pressure and do not behave as well as they should. you mean off—rolling, which is against

the law? absolutely. that does happen. that's outrageous, isn't it? some of your colleagues are doing that? yes, they are but it's a minority, the vast majority... the minister himself said 85% of schools haven't exclude anyone. let's not assume everyone is haven't exclude anyone. let's not assume everyone is into this but some are, some trusts seem to have a poor showing for it. i myself have taken in! poor showing for it. i myself have taken in i think five children who have been home educated at some point —— some trust seem to want to do it. they were being moved around the system is not educated at all. that is the kind of thing you get in very constrained and pressured atmospheres in the inner city. where is that pressure coming from in your view as a head teacher? the home—schooling thing comes from accountability and schools. no, i mean the pressure to break the law. accountability. schools feeling they need to make sure that the progress they are measured on is better than up they are measured on is better than

up the road. is that from parents or government? no, from within themselves. but i don't think that is... although that is appalling, i don't think that's the key issue. the key issue is why are these children being excluded? in larger numbers. and the answer is to do with the lack of opportunity and the poor curriculum on offer because the government has changed what we can offer children. children of less ability have got less interesting exams to access. compared to what they used to. briefly, a final response to what ian fenn has just said, less interesting curriculum? ian raises an important point and it will come through the consultation we will have with head teachers. i have fought very hard to make sure that sen children do have the ability to take exams that are well suited to their abilities. 0n the off—rolling issue, which is illegal, 0fsted will crack down on this in their new framework, where

inspectors will be asking schools where they might believe there is some off—rolling going on as to what is going on. today, edward timpson's report is a really important day in the lives of many vulnerable students in schools. i want to thank edward but i also want to make sure we deliver on this. thank you all of you for your time, we appreciate it, thank you. remember the worldwide outrage following the shooting dead by trophy hunters of cecil the lion in zimbabwe? that was in 2015. at the time, the british government pledged to ban the import of such trophies, like the head, skin or tusks. now, the environment secretary, michael gove, says he's cautious about doing so, at least at the moment. in an interview for bbc radio 5live's podcast "beast of man", he said he'd been advised by wildlife charities against the immediate outlawing of imports of such items. the podcast was presented by former cricketer kevin pietersen.

i think that there is growing momentum for the law to change, but what i don't want to do is to get ahead... and i think there is a broad public consensus behind it — but i don't want it to be, as i mentioned to kevin earlier, in a position where i am running so far in advance of what other charities and other leaders want, that we risk the good relationship that has been built up over time. and i think, like so many areas of campaigning, it is partly a process of education, it's partly a process of dialogue and, also, if particular communities have got used to deriving income from hunting, you don't want to seem as though you are basically saying, "we're, you know, taking your livelihood away". let's talk to eduardo is the found to ban trophy hunting. and a hunter who has been on several trophy hunts and written about them. eduardo,

what do you say to michael gove?|j think he should be taking leadership on this issue because britain actually has a lot of responsibility for what is going on. it is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to elephant trophy hunting and caged lions, lions that have been bred for the bullet and shotin have been bred for the bullet and shot in enclosures will stop you heard his argument, do you not buy that at all? trophy hunting isn't conservation. conservation is when wildlife is more valuable to us alive than it is dead. frankly, i find it rather suspicious when i hear particularly trophy hunters invoke the arguments about conservation. at the end of the day, they are not involved in this sport because they want to conserve wildlife. they enjoy killing wildlife. they enjoy killing wildlife. let's ask one. thank you for talking to us. do you enjoy killing wildlife? it's a very pejoratively phrased question, isn't it? what is the answer? you are focusing on the killing element, as if that is all anybody is

interested. do you enjoy the killing element? hunting is an all—encompassing thing. i enjoy hunting but i kill anything at the end of it or not. do you enjoy the act of killing, though? the active killing is an incidental part of a whole lifestyle. whose lifestyle? we don't do that. we value the animals and the ecosystems and the populations. people involved in hunting have a much closer relationship with the animals that we interact with and we actually wa nt we interact with and we actually want to see... and then you kill them! we want to see sustainable populations lasting for years and yea rs. populations lasting for years and years. how does that work, explain the link between killing and what you say is conserving. let me give you say is conserving. let me give you an example of the two g to stand markle. an animal poached to the verge of extinction. the numbers have increased threefold since

managed hunting licences for a small amount of people to hunt a small amount of people to hunt a small amount of people to hunt a small amount of animals. what is the link? these animals are improving in number in their natural habitat only where hunting is the strategy for bringing money in and protecting them because you pay the locals. you are the guest said, quite rightly, that animals only has a value... only survive when they have a value. let me go back to eduardo. there is no point us talking over each other. eduardo, you have just no point us talking over each other. eduardo, you havejust been no point us talking over each other. eduardo, you have just been given an example about a particular species of animal. the numbers have increased as a result of managed hunting, how do you respond?” sometimes hear these incidental examples. there was actually a major... just deal with what... it

may be incidental or not, those are the figures that he has given us, do you accept them? no i don't and i will tell you why. there was a major us congressional study published in 2016 that looked at all the scientific evidence and the claims that have been made by trophy hunters about whether trophy hunting was contributing to conservation and it concluded there was very little, if any, evidence whatsoever that any benefits existed at all. remember, one, the amount of trophy hunting that goes on is absolutely colossal. 1.7 million animals were taken by hunters for so—called sport in the last ten years. it's notjust numbers we are talking about, but the types of animals. trophy hunters like to go for lions with the most impressive manes and elephants with the most impressive tasks. they are taking the most important, the fittest and strongest animals out of the gene pool. let me get a response. that is factually

incorrect. firstly, the first point he made was that you asked for evidence, he dismisses the evidence i gave. i will quote namibia. evidence, he dismisses the evidence i gave. iwill quote namibia. in namibia in the 1980s, it was virtually devoid of game. they brought in managed hunting concessions as a way of proliferating that game. it is now massively successful at namibia is full of wild animals because local people have control and strict quotas are put down. in order to maintain long—term populations of animals, we are interested in the habitat and the sustainability of the populations. for example, if you have a large population of buffalo, let's say you have 10,000 buffalo ona on a managed concession, you protect those buffalo, you stop the poaching, stop the bush meat trade,

you shoot off 5% surplus, the buffalo herd will regenerate naturally at 25% per year. so in 20 years, you have not only a sustainable ecosystem, you have more buffalo. thank you, we will leave it there. we appreciate your time. the first two episodes of beast of man our out right now on bbc sounds and one more next friday —— they are out right now. harry and meghan's baby boy arrived at 5.26am yesterday, the first mixed—race baby for the royal family. we haven't yet had a glimpse and there's no name yet. some of the papers are putting their money on alexander. perhaps after this moment where harry appeared on stage at the hit musical last year. of alexander hamilton. # you say...# applause. that's definitely not going to happen! let's talk to radhika sanghani who is a freelance journalist, and from windsor we have

charlotte wace, who is the royal correspondent for the mail on sunday. thank you both. is the birth of this may be different, radhika? the first time the family have a mixed race baby, it is different. it is not just a big dealfor harry and meghan but it is a big dealfor the entire population of the uk because it is the first time the royal family is being representative of the rest of the uk. for anyone of colour, it feels like a really big deal to see somebody of colour now born into the upper echelons of british society. charlotte, do you agree with that?” do. certainly, what i heard today is that people saying, particularly for children who can identify with them, obviously, the royal family, who are such... who have such an appeal

across britain. and the fact that megan is american —— meghan is american. they have a huge appeal on the global stage and this can only help to increase that. radhika, i wonder what difference it will make to the way the british monarchy is perceived. because they now have a mixed race baby. i think it makes the monarchy see more relevant. meghan herself has started to do that anyway, the fact that she started to break away with traditions, the fact that she didn't do that traditional photograph on the steps of the hospital with her baby. it was harry who went out there alone to make the announcement for her and the way he spoke about how he is all of —— how he is in awe of women who can do this. the relationship is starting to make the monarchy feel more relevant because they are electable and modern and not just fulfilling they are electable and modern and notjust fulfilling typical traditional customs —— they are relatable. just for the sake of it. charlotte, have they done this differently when you look at the evidence? i think they have. there has been a lot of emphasis around

privacy in the last few days. they have done things differently. for instance, when harry went and stood outside the stables yesterday, it was so warm outside the stables yesterday, it was so warm and genuine and he seemed genuinely so excited to share his news with the public. obviously, there is privacy in the sense that they won't do the traditional photo shoot outside the hospital. but there will still be pictures but a bit more low— key. there will still be pictures but a bit more low—key. in that way, yes. i think it has been different. briefly, let's talk about odds on the name. according to the bookies, alexander, albert, arthur. those are some of the names that are favourite. very traditional, radhika? i hope meghan doesn't choose such a traditional name because she has been so true to herself with everything else. if she goes for a name like albert, which

is so traditionally british and very old—fashioned, it is so traditionally british and very old —fashioned, it is is so traditionally british and very old—fashioned, it is a bit disappointing. what should she go for? something a bit more fun, something modern to her, something different. to be honest, she might end up going for alexander because that can be shortened to alex in the way harry has never been henry, he has a ways been harry, she could do something similar. charlotte, none of us know what should she go for? —— he has always been. of us know what should she go for? -- he has always been. all the names have been very traditional on the shortlist and i don't think they will go for something traditional. i wouldn't be surprised if they went for something that was sentimental. spencer is on the shortlist. i am drawn to that one. it is so hard to predict with harry and meghan because they have done things slightly differently all along. in some ways, that is part of the fund because it hasn't come out yet. we will have to wait and see. depends on your definition of fun! thank you charlotte, we appreciated. royal correspondent for the mail on sunday and radhika, thank you, freelance

journalist. thank you for your messages regarding jess phillips, the labour mp. we revealed on the programme this morning that west midlands police are investigating comments made by a ukip candidate, carl benjamin, standing on the forthcoming euro elections on a video last week. steve says what jess phillips was suggesting was to restrict the individual‘s freedom of speech by making laws, taking away our right of free speech. tony says jess phillips telling it like it is on your programme today, time for the law to be clear that misogyny is a hate crime. she is a brave lady. thank you for your company. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. back tomorrow at 10am. have a good day.

temperatures for many around eight soldiers, but higher than that across the thurso. showers will continue to move north across northern england into scotland, furthering spreads from the south—west. a mild night for many parts of england and wales, 7010 degrees the overnight lows. a touch of frost in the far north—east of scotland. throughout wednesday, some significant reign as the weather and moves northward, low pressure towards the south—west. as the weather front moves north, towards the south—west. as the weatherfront moves north, brighter skies will develop across many parts of england and wales, but without some heavy and thundery showers developing by tomorrow afternoon. staying disappointingly cold on the north sea coasts, with quite a strong east or south—easterly wind and also some rain. goodbye.

you're watching bbc newsroom live with me, annita mcveigh in windsor. it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: congratulations from around the world for prince harry and meghan, as they announce the birth of a baby boy. as every father and parent would ever say, your baby is absolutely amazing, but this little thing is absolutely to die for, so i am just over the moon. there's excitement here in windsor, as well as in meghan's home city of los angeles — we'll bring you live updates, through the morning. i'm joanna gosling. the other main stories this morning: the inquest opens at the old bailey, into the deaths of eight people killed in the london bridge attacks

almost two years ago.