president trump says the us is right where it wants to be with china with regard to tariffs, but his economic adviser larry kudlow admitted that it will be american businesses and people that will pay. president trump claims the us is making tens of billions of dollars from china. filipinos are going to the polls to vote in congressional mid—term elections largely being seen as a referendum on president duterte‘s controversial policies, including his war on drugs. the key battle is for control of the senate, where mr duterte currently doesn't have a majority. cardinal pietro parolin, the secretary of state for the vatican city, has defended a deal struck between the catholic church and beijing over the control of the church in china, saying that some criticism from catholics is prejudiced and aimed at preserving old geopolitical balances.

now on bbc news, hardtalk‘s sarah montague speaks to the chief executive of stonewall, ruth hunt. stonewall was founded 30 years ago to campaign for gay and lesbian rights. when my guest today, ruth hunt, became its chief executive, she extended its work to include the trans community. but many stonewall members have been upset at the line the leadership has taken on gender recognition, that anyone can declare themselves to be male orfemale, and at their refusal to share a platform with anyone who disagrees. is this coalition which has been at the forefront of gay liberation for decades now in danger of tearing itself apart?

ruth hunt, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, hello. now, stonewall could have argued that it should be easierfor trans could have argued that it should be easier for trans people to could have argued that it should be easierfor trans people to have their chosen gender recognise, but you chose to go further, and say all someone you chose to go further, and say all someone needs to do is say that they area someone needs to do is say that they are a man or a woman. why did you ta ke are a man or a woman. why did you take that position? well, that's the current position that exists in ireland, walter, argentina, and in reality, it is the practical way in which most trans people in this country and abroad operate. very few feel the need to necessarily go through a process by which they receive another certificate. so what's classified as what is called

self identification is actually a reflection of how most people live their life. so if a collie came in to see you and said look, sarah, tomorrow i'm going to be coming in andi tomorrow i'm going to be coming in and i would like you to call me john, andi and i would like you to call me john, and i would like you to use my pronouns as male and he, you wouldn't turn around and say can you tell me what process you have been through, have you seen any doctors, and whether. .. so through, have you seen any doctors, and whether... so people are accepted for who they say they are, generally, in society, and that is what ireland did in terms of their legal recognition, and that is how it is now managed in many countries. but the question still stands, because the situation at the moment, the criticism of it is that it is bureaucratic and that it's intrusive and that it's expensive, because you have to go through a process and you need a medical diagnosis, and then you need to go through, what, two yea rs before a you need to go through, what, two years before a panel decides. and there would be many people who would say, you're right, it needs changing. but exactly, perhaps, because it isn't such a difficulty in practice, you can make it easier

without making it something where you can just say tomorrow i will be... so what we're suggesting is there should a process, and we think that the scrutiny that that process puts in place doesn't need to be as arduous. some would argue there's no need for a process at all, and there's lots of people who are trans who don't go through any process now. so i think the question is, what does that process offer? and what does that process offer? and what are you suggesting the process should be? that someone makes a legal declaration, that they make a declaration that they have a full intention to fully transition, that this is a permanent change, and that that's how they should be regarded. and actually, that's not now. so the reality is this is how most trans people live their lives, and i think it is important in all these discussions to remember what people are actually doing. well, let's talk about what people are actually doing, because one of the biggest concerns about this is what happens to safe spaces, particularly safe spaces for women, where it is known that predatory men have, and there was a case in canada in 2012 where christopher handbook assorted women

in two trans shelters —— assaulted. he claimed he was a trans woman, and this was just after the law had changed and he was found guilty of sexual assault and criminal harassment. and there have been others, and there are fears that if you make the process simple, as saying i am now a woman, that that will increasingly happen. it would be happening now. so i'm not saying it doesn't happen, but changing the process wouldn't make that more or less likely. so for people who want to masquerade as a woman in order to attack, they are not at the moment asked to show any documentation, nor isa asked to show any documentation, nor is a trans woman asked to show any documentation. so the problem when discussing his violent men. violent men who are attempting to infiltrate situations in which they can be abusive and violent. what we do about that? changing the recognition process by which someone can receive a gender recognition certificate that they never show anyone what mitigate that risk or heighten it.

so there is a risk, but how do we deal with that? but we're notjust talking about violent men, are we? we're also talking about women who perhaps have been abused men and wa nt perhaps have been abused men and want a space that they consider to be purely for women. but again, that question is legitimate. it's legitimate whether the law changes or not, and what the experts who run the centres tell us is that they have been risk assessing people coming into these centres for a very, very, very long time, including trans people. 0k, very, very, very long time, including trans people. ok, so there was a case in the uk 2017 where somebody called karen white was jailed for life after she attacked women in female prisons, and the prosecutor, who described as an alleged transgender female, said she has used her tra nsgender alleged transgender female, said she has used her transgender persona to put herself in contact with vulnerable persons. now, are you saying that she would need to have gone through a process in order to get into the prison in the first place? she would, as every trans person, regardless of their status

within the gender recognition act or not, would have been assessed on an individual basis. and in this case, that assessment went wrong. so is the answer to that don't let someone have a certificate? the answer is to improve the process. so regardless of whether someone has a comic certificate or not, the ministry of justice is assessment. if it easy just to say, look i am now a woman. . . just to say, look i am now a woman... there is someone who might have a gender recognition certificate and would still go through a process of assessment by the present. there is someone who might say they are a woman and would still go to separate assessment by a present, and that process is individual, thorough, and it is supposed to avoid problems like this. this was a problem that went wrong because the process failed, not by changing the system. do you understand — do you understand why there are women who feel very, very

concerned about the ease with which the... of course. somebody could say iam nowa the... of course. somebody could say i am now a woman. of course, and what i would want to say is, is this happening today? are we seeing this happening? so where i am concerned is where we are seeing people saying it might happen in the future if we change the law, that isn't the case. if it is happening now, let's talk about safeguarding procedures. let's talk about how we assess who is appropriate to gain services. so how are we looking at prisons? the reform of the gender recognition act... somebody with a certificate who says they are a woman,... would never show that certificate, nobody would have us to see that certificate. but if they wanted to get into the prison against the refuge? no. there is another concern which many people have, and it was articulated by christina harrison, who was a transsexual political campaigner who works in the nhs, who talked about this... what stonewall have agreed to is in training are quite extreme gender ideology in law. and she makes the point that it, principally redefines what it is to be female or male. these changes, after thousands of years of sex based definitions, i happening with a minimum of political scrutiny. and she makes the point that debate is basically being shut down. it's being impeded by a toxic and

authoritarian atmosphere, and that those who are being sidelined, the dissenting voices being sidelined, particularly women. how do you a nswer particularly women. how do you answer the charge against stonewall? well, i think that they are confusing with what —— what happened in 2004, so the discussion about what constitutes a man and a woman happen in 2004, and there was debate in parliament. the issue she is discussing about what does it mean to bea discussing about what does it mean to be a man or discussing about what does it mean to bea man ora discussing about what does it mean to be a man or a woman was an issue that was discussed at length in 2004. 0k, that was discussed at length in 2004. ok, so when a billboard was put up that said... gave the google definition of woman, which is adult human female, somebody complained, said it was a symbol that makes transgender people feel said it was a symbol that makes tra nsgender people feel unsafe, said it was a symbol that makes transgender people feel unsafe, and the billboard was taken down. is that billboard offensive? well, i don't find it offensive, but neither is it in my power to decide what goes on billboards or not. so part

of the other thing about what you said was, is stonewall responsible for the atmosphere in which this debate is taking place? and what i would say is that there has been an extra ordinary degree of toxicity on all sides of the debate, and stonewall‘s staff and stonewall supporters have experienced that in a way that we haven't seen in 30 yea rs, a way that we haven't seen in 30 years, in terms of some of the way in which the debate is conducted. and in my career at stonewall over the last 14 years, i have campaigned for the rights of catholic adoption agencies to see same—sex couples, i have campaigned on many, many difficult, tricky, complex issues. there is something about how this debate is taking place that is deeply damaging for all sorts of sides. are you saying that the debate is more poisonous than any other debate you have been involved in? yes. 0k, other debate you have been involved in? yes. ok, but there are plenty of people you know who would say that stonewall is partly to blame for that, and the suggestion is that, and here we are, one of the founding members of stonewall, simon fanshawe, says stonewall

members of stonewall, simon fa nshawe, says stonewall withdraws representatives from panels that include people who disagree with its sta nce include people who disagree with its stance on self identification. to say these issues aren't debatable, that raising them is somehow transphobic, appears to be the stonewall position, rather than to build on the great position of concentrating on avoiding dissemination. well, simon hasn't been at stonewall in 30 years, so i am interested in his take, but he hasn't been part of the discussion. stonewall is constantly having debate on these issues. won't you have withdrawn people from panels. we have withdrawn them if we feel they are going to be unable to have their voices heard, and we have to ta ke their voices heard, and we have to take the safety of our trans staff very seriously, and the level of personal threats leads me to make a call. but myjob over the past five yea rs has call. but myjob over the past five years has been to have difficult conversations. i have had many of those difficult conversations. do you think it is transphobic to say that you disagree with self identification? know, because they wouldn't. you know that there are people... but there are many people who think, by the withdrawing of and shutting down of the debate, that thatis shutting down of the debate, that that is in effect what stonewall are saying. i wouldn't agree with the

position that we have shut down debate. i think what we haven't done is said that it was stonewall‘s rolt to host that debate, and it is not stonewall‘s rolt to host a debate. stonewall‘s rolt to host a debate. stonewall‘s role is to have a very clear position that was developed over consultation with 700 individual trans people, with all of our diversity champions, we work with 800 major employers, who have been asking us to do trans work for decades, and has been increasingly disappointed that stonewall hasn't. we are very thoughtful and considered and measured about the positions we take. what we haven't done... so why are so many lesbians in particular, feminists, stonewall, people who previously were very strong supporters of stonewall, aghast and angry at the stonewall position on trans? by what we're seeing is many of our supporters are very, very supportive of what we're doing and how we're doing it, we have seen that in the way we have grown, the beach we have, the way in which we are working, we are a much bigger organisation than the way we we re bigger organisation than the way we were five years ago, and a lot of thatis were five years ago, and a lot of that is down to the fact that we thought about these things differently. we knew that there would be some people who didn't acknowledge or believe or want trans

people to be part of that movement. there are lots and lots and lots they did. but those people, among those people, are many lesbians who feel that you have changed the position. you are eroding their space. maureen chadwick. yes. who is a creator of television programmes with her partner, kath watts, quit and stopped funding, they had given $38,000, over a number of and stopped funding, they had given $38,000, overa number of years. 0ver $38,000, overa number of years. over five years, yes. and are now giving it to women's aid charities. they make the point that many who are long standing supporters of stonewall share our concerns and dismay about the organisation, that was the go to lgbt authority. well, go to lgb authority. we were the lgb authority. and this is a concern, is now telling schoolchildren that a bearded man with a venus can be a

lesbian, and any boys and girls deviating from the 1950s gender norms are in the wrong body. well, asa norms are in the wrong body. well, as a lesbian myself, as someone who often plays and manipulate the gender norms, i don't agree with that interpretation of what is happening, and there are many, many lesbians who are very supportive of our stance. and if we are talking financial profile, our financial profile has improved. an individual giving has gone up. the number of donors has gone up stop the number of high—level donors has gone up. so this is someone who disagrees with our position... is there a split? no more than there ever has been. so there was a significant split when stonewall didn't do trans. it was less interesting, the media didn't report it. it felt like a fringe issue. stonewall not doing trans was absolutely out of step... it is not the not doing trans, it is the way you have done it. i disagree. as soon as we were not you have done it. i disagree. as soon as we were not doing trans, the reflection was we were doing trans and representing trans issues. so you think these people angry because... because you are working on trans issues. theyjust don't believe that trans should be coupled with lgb, and that is a position.

but other movement, lgb movement internationally, is a lgbt movement. stonewall was very late to the party on this, and the opposition we received for not doing trans was as loud, as vicious, as upset, as angry. i remember in 2008... what is the argument for including, because you are including identity as well as sex? what is the argument for including lesbians with gay people? these bedfellows have not a lwa ys people? these bedfellows have not always been comfortable and we are clear about trans people and lgbt people experience discrimination in the same way that people who hate us tend not to differentiate. was a similaramount of tend not to differentiate. was a similar amount ofjudas. the trans community is tiny and left behind an unrepresented and when you see homophobia you see transfer beer as well. in america, they've always john lgbt. well. in america, they've always john lg bt. stonewall was well. in america, they've always john lgbt. stonewall was quite odd in not doing it. is this row the

reason you are going. i've been doing it for 14 years and i've been ceo for five. you've been in the top role for five years during which time you made this change and some might see that you're essentially making yourself the lightning rod, you are going to protect stonewall, the rail goes with you. you are going to protect stonewall, the rail goes with youlj you are going to protect stonewall, the rail goes with you. i hope so. 0ne the rail goes with you. i hope so. one would always like to leave and support the organisation that way. i think it's very easy to think this change has only happened because of me and that's a little bit because of how individual organisations work but the board have been completely behind this at every single stage, as have our supporters. it's slightly caricatured as ruth hunt, who is also a lesbian and a feminist knows her way around better than most people, has made this robe decision and it's a decision that's been taken by a lot of people with a lot of thought. a long-term supporter has said stonewall was a lwa ys supporter has said stonewall was always clever at putting together those broad coalitions around big principles. ruth hunt lost what the

big unsuitable was on the board is in an extraordinarily difficult situation. the board doesn't feel that on the board is clear what we're doing now. when we look at our allies, who other coalitions. we have support from every political party, support from the army to gchq to berkeley ‘s. these coalitions of warming as they always have done around every campaign. —— barclays. every campaign, there has been division. i remember campaigning for the human fertilisation and embryology act and there was opposition within our own communities. these are more and more complex issues. it was easy to say 93v complex issues. it was easy to say gay people like to marry gay people, let's marry. arguing for trans rights is a much more complex, nuanced position. grey areas. prison and sport and refuges aren't simple. gay rights for gays was a slightly easier narrative. there is another charge that the reason that

stonewall was set up initially was to do with what was being taught in our schools and we have a situation at the moment in the united kingdom where in a predominantly muslim area, there are a number of schools who because of a row with the pa rents a re who because of a row with the parents are not teaching, and its primary school children, but they are not being taught about same—sex relationships and that is a situation that has gone on now for some time. for decades. particularly with the recent row over what is being taught in school, a matter of weeks, people saying the government should be stepping in. what do you think the government should be doing? the government is. stonewall has been working with schools for the last 30 years in primary schools for the last four or five. there are 20,000 primary schools and we work with government funding so we will work with any school for free and do some remarkable work with muslim majority schools, christian schools, jewish schools but that requires a

conversation and negotiation with pa rents. conversation and negotiation with parents. never a school that milestone for his work with we have to be mindful of ringing parents on the journey and let's just not lgbt issues, it's the role of women in society, women and their careers, puberty, all sorts of different stuff, abortion, genetically modified... lots of controversial things and what the government has said clearly now is that by making sex and relationship education, even a physical relationship and sex education in britain now, compulsory, they are sending a clear signal that this is something that should you thought about and it should you thought about and it should be inclusive. there are head teachers caught up in this who said not only have central government been silent about all this but the m nation they put out is contradictory, equality is nonnegotiable expect nonnegotiable and they are budging it. it's unfair on the government. i'm not an apologist or a spokesperson i moments where they drag their feet but they have been unequivocal on

this. there is a general problem about when is it ok for parents to ta ke about when is it ok for parents to take the kids out of this education, at what age can kids decide for themselves and it's notjust something about lg bt. themselves and it's notjust something about lgbt. we've got some beautiful resources, different families resources that really work well in schools and lots of different contacts and they work. when the local mp and burning them talks about ——in birmingham talks about a conflict, she says it's been ha rd about a conflict, she says it's been hard for parents to get a fair hearing about genuine religion is conviction in an atmosphere which often doesn't feel tolerant of religious beliefs. as a similar conversation like we've had with trans issues. a discussion about how these debates are going on, leaving everybody dissatisfied but what's worked well in other schools of those quiet conversations behind closed doors with parents. the conflict doesn't exist? it's dealt with face—to—face rather than with megaphones or twitter or 120

characters. there are conversations to be had. i come from a background. people are concerned when they don't understand what's being taught and i remember going into a school where pa rents were remember going into a school where parents were deeply concerned that toilets in primary schools were going to be affected. nothing to do with lgbt. going to be affected. nothing to do with lg bt. we going to be affected. nothing to do with lgbt. we are making girls grow up. girls are having their periods when they are ten. it's not growing up when they are ten. it's not growing up too quickly, let's just what happens. conversation, ialways believe talking is a good way to do it. you believe talking behind closed doors gets more done because there isn't the twitter and the trolling? i often think about how politicians in the 90s in the early to thousands would have coped with every sentence being passed over on twitter. there is something about our subtlety is lost on social media and it's possible for something to be anything other than one thing is

reduced to the lowest common denominator of their position and gets entrenched. a lot of what we do at stonewall around peace building, trans work, we work with peace builders, is there any way of moving when is deeply entrenched in a position and how do you manage that and twitter heightens that and it's about how we use our power to basically achieve change and there isa basically achieve change and there is a real seduction in campaigning to go for a headline when we are about long—term sustainable change. long—term change, is currently illegal to have sex with a partner of the same sex in 72 countries. in nine countries, homosexuality is punishable with death. that would suggest that actually perhaps some people would say that should have been the focus of your campaign, yourcampaigning, on been the focus of your campaign, your campaigning, on those life—and—death matters rather than perhaps questions of identity and semantics. the trans people, it's not a question of identity and semantics, its extreme hate crime when they gone the trains day in and

day out, on public transport. the situation facing trans people is not an esoteric debate about identity. when you are talking about countries andi when you are talking about countries and i didn't do so, but when you are talking about countries where it is illegal, you can have the death sentence applied to someone found guilty of having a same—sex partner? 20% of our operation is on international work. we work with activists on the ground, praying them, giving them the resources we got on with businesses we work within this country, the 800 companies, lots of them have operations in those countries and their influence is quite significant. it opened an office in northern ireland because the companies we work within northern ireland, when they talking about how important same—sex marriage and lgbt rights are, we know that is a much greater driver than gay—rights activists doing that. also significant influencing through british politicians. 30 years since i'd -- british politicians. 30 years since

i'd —— stonewall was set up, how are or how much is changed in that time? how much further needs to be gone? significant change and i've been there for 14 years so i've been lucky enough to see a lot of it and i think the change we've seen in schools that change with employers, the way police now do will hate crime, all these things have been a massive step forward. even the bbc talks about lesbians without blushing. we've seen a big progress in all these different things but we re in all these different things but were also seeing things go backwards, particularly internationally. where to support lg bt internationally. where to support lgbt rights, internationally. where to support lg bt rights, there internationally. where to support lgbt rights, there is something about their global positioning regarding the global north, lgbt as the lightning rod to say we reject those intervals. it's often weaponised in countries to put clear blue water even between ice estates, at cetera, so we are mindful of how precarious our rights are and how our rights are only comfortable if

you like the gay person who's got them so for the nice gay person who is married, might have kids, it's an easy one but for the trans person who is a bit puzzling in a bit confusing, you don't really get it, it becomes more uncomfortable and stonewall has an absolute obligation to ensure we give equality for everybody, including those who are behind. ruth hunt, thank you for being on hardtalk. thank you very much. hello there, good morning. it was 18 degrees again on sunday, but for many of us it's going to get warmer over the next few days. the weather this week looks very different from what we had last week. this was a typical weather pattern — jetstream to the south.

we were in the colder air. that brought showers and longer spells of rain, as much as an inch of rain in some places last week. but, at least for the next few days, the jetstream is deflected well to the north of the uk. we're in the warmer air, and we've got high pressure that's dominating and keeping it dry just about everywhere. having said that, though, there is this cloud that's spilling around the top of it. that's pushing its way into scotland, and it's not as cold here as it has been during recent nights. pretty chilly elsewhere, mind you, and maybe a pinch of frost here and there, especially towards east anglia. the cloud across northern scotland is going to produce a little rain and drizzle. that's going to be affecting shetland first thing in the morning. tail end of a weather front — that moves through and we're left with some thin, high cloud. it means the sunshine could be a little hazy at times. not going to spoil the day — plenty of sunshine, light winds for most of us, and temperatures continuing to rise. maybe 20 degrees were parts of northern ireland and around the moray firth as well. as we head through tuesday and wednesday, still looks pretty good across some southern and eastern parts of the uk.

temperatures are going to be around 17—18 degrees. warm in the sunshine, but there will be an easterly breeze. temperatures, though, will be higher further west and north, north wales, north—west england, northern ireland and scotland, with 23 degrees or so perhaps in scotland on wednesday. that's probably the peak of the heat. and that's because after that, the position of the high, the centre, is going to shift further north, up towards scandinavia. it opens the door to this easterly airflow, and there's lower pressure across the continent that could eventually bring cloud and some patchy rain our way. still dry, though, i think on thursday, and some sunshine around. we'll see a bit more cloud coming in off the north sea, and we'll have this easterly breeze as well. that's going to be felt certainly around those north sea coasts. but even further west, temperatures won't be quite as high on thursday as they will be on tuesday and wednesday. and as we move into friday, still a lot of uncertainty about the details, but we are seeing more cloud. we're seeing some showers or some longer spells of rain. now it's a little bit further south.

they are what is more certain, though, is that the temperatures will continue to drop away in those easterly winds, and with more cloud, we're back to around 14—16 degrees, so that's nearer normal for this time of year. ahead of that, for the next few days, a lot of warmth, a lot of sunshine, dry weather too. the weather starts to change, though, during thursday and into friday.

this is the briefing, i'm sally bundock. our top story: donald trump prepares for talks with hungary's prime minister. we will tell you why their meeting is raising concern in europe and in america. millions head to the polls in the philippines in crucial midterm elections that could cement rodrigo duterte's presidency. the future is bright. counting down to the eurovision song contest, and it promises to be better than ever. the party continues after a day of high drama in the english premier league. manchester city retain their title, ending the season just one point ahead of liverpool. and shooting yourself in the foot.