this is bbc news. i‘m lukwesa burak. the headlines at two: by distorting reality. us president donald trump lifts the threat of tariffs on imports from mexico after its government promises to act over migrants, asylum seekers and border security. michael gove — one of the front runners and for a book to have these sort for the conservative leadership — of multiple meanings that it seems says his past cocaine use more irrelevant at very different times than 20 years ago should not be held in history for different against him in his bid to become reasons is remarkable, and perhaps not something that he would have expected. prime minister. health officials launch an investigation into the deaths of three hospital patients in manchester and liverpool who ate pre—packed sandwiches linked to an outbreak of listeria. fascinating story, that. worth a look at the book are not just the tv the queen isjoined by members and radio versions. of the royal family for the annual time for a look at the weather. trooping the colour fly—past here's alina jenkins. to mark her majesty‘s official birthday. it was definitely brightening up in london this lunchtime after a pretty the fifa women‘s world cup miserable start. what is the kicked—off last night, with hosts france easing prospect for the rest of the to a dominant 4—0 win country? we have mixed fortunes, sunshine in places and also some heavy, thundery showers and a more general spell of rain. you can see

the rain here stretching from the north of east anglia through the midlands and into the north, that will continue to go north and east, but working westwards across the eastern side of scotland. on either side of this, spells of sunshine, some gusty winds, touching 45 mph in places, and also some heavy, thundery showers. all of this combined is a fairly cool day, 1a celsius typically. the rain moves out of the way swiftly this evening, leaving us with a few showers, and elsewhere some clear spells, with lighter winds that will mean some patchy mist and fog. a fairly cool night for most, temperatures will struggle to get into double figures, rural areas could dip down to two celsius under clear skies. sunny spells of heavy showers on sunday, the showers initially in the west but they will work their way east, with lighter winds and a little more sunshine it should at least feel a little warmer.

hello this is bbc news with shaun ley. the headlines this error.

—— this hour. michael gove — one of the front runners for the conservative leadership — says he ‘deeply regrets‘ his past use of cocaine and that it shouldn't rule him out of becoming the next prime minister. us president donald trump lifts the threat of tariffs on imports from mexico after its government promises to act over migrants, asylum seekers and border security. health officials launch an investigation into the deaths of three hospital patients in manchester and liverpool who ate pre—packed sandwiches linked to an outbreak of listeria. the annual trooping the colour parade has taken place. the duchess of sussex was there carrying out her first royal engagement since giving birth last month. and a new law to protect service animals comes into force today — nicknamed "finn's law" after a police dog who was stabbed. thank you very much so far for your company. now on bbc news, talking books. award winning novelist and poet kapka kassabova talks

to stig abell about her childhood spent behind the iron curtain in bulgaria. hello and welcome to talking books at hay festival in wales with me, stig abell. every year, the festival brings to a small tented village a group of politicians and artists, writers and thinkers, a heady mix of people designed to stimulate debate and ideas. i'll be talking to kapka kassabova whose book border is both a literal exploration of a base where east meets west and a poetic meditation on how we create divisions between people through a combination of race and religion, history and chance.

kapka kassabova, welcome to talking books. applause. kapka, the book has a combination of a sort ofjournalist and poet about it, in terms of the use of language and the inquiring mind. but before we talk about how you go about writing this, perhaps you might give us a brief reading. ‘klyon was the pet name bulgarian border soldiers gave the electrified, alarmed wall of barbed wire that ran through the forest and sealed off the country from its neighbours. the official name was saorajenieto, the installation, and the installation was ostensibly there to stop enemies from infiltrating. but if you look at the top

of the wire, parts of which still stand, you see that it points to the real enemy: inwards. in that twilight zone the soldiers lived, counted the months and sometimes years until the promised leave, and sometimes died by their own hand or the hand of a comrades gone berserk. their only company consisted of the pet dogs, trying to console some and hunt others. there were two types of border guards: career soldiers and those i9—year—olds on compulsory two—year military service who had drawn the border lot. border duty was the most dreaded service, because the colonels in charge of the border forces were notorious for being, in the words of a former soldier, ‘demons in human disguise‘. anotherformer guard said to me, "when you have no contact with the outside world, they can make you believe anything". with its well—oiled feudal barbarity, life behind the installation was a perfect microcosm of totalitarian society.

and the strip of land that ran alongside the installation was known as the furrow of death. even a bird‘s footprints could be seen in its carefully tended soil.‘ you say you‘ve been haunted by borders all your life and it‘s a subject that you have devoted a chunk of your life now to writing about. why is that? why has the subject of borders haunted you? growing up behind the iron curtain was a formative experience for me and no doubt for my whole generation, of, um, in the ex—soviet world. i guess today we think, at least in the west, where we are privileged enough to think of borders from their more benign side, as it were, we‘re used to thinking of borders in terms of protecting us. we‘ll come back to this, no doubt. but the experience of actually living behind a hard border

was the quintessential experience for me of living in a totalitarian society. it‘s not one that protected you, but one that prevented you, as it were. it tells the tale of a land, your book, deeply damaged by the communist state where people were abused and murdered. i wonder whether — was one of the reasons you wanted to write this book because people in the west are either not aware of it or have forgotten it or have underplayed it, was there a sense of what went on in these lands is no longer known as much as it should be? yeah, partly. but i would say that i was less driven by a sense of mission than by a more instinctive sense of, well, an obsession, really, and urge to write about what‘s hidden, what‘s now out of view, what‘s. .. what i knew was going to be narrative gold dust, in a way. i sensed that these were places.

the border zone was a place of unexcavated, extraordinary, but unexcavated stories of what felt to me great human relevance, notjust locally or regionally, or even historically only, but universally and in a timeless way. so i, with a writer‘s instinct, i went there and i started gathering stories. so it was really obsession and fascination that drove me. and a little bit of anger, i guess. you mention some astonishing things in this book. you talk about the forced expulsion of 340,000 ethnic turks from bulgaria in 1989, an act of ethnic cleansing. does it surprise you that that‘s not well known? and although it‘s not a mission statement to educate people, that these are untold stories you want to tell and there

are huge stories here that are untold, effectively. it doesn‘t surprise me. nothing surprises me. i guess having grown up both behind the iron curtain but also in a kind of peripheral part of europe which is seen, from — perhaps we‘ll come back to this idea of what is the and what is of what is the centre and what is the periphery — but very much growing up with a sense of growing up in a kind of marginal, in the margins. and as a writer now i‘m drawn to the margins, to the people of the margins, to that which is out of view. and, certainly, when you come across stories like the one you just mentioned, of the 350,000 bulgarian turks who were expelled into turkey, just a few months before the fall of the berlin wall, which went largely unnoticed, very little reported in the west... i really wanted to tell that story. because i‘m not a historian and i‘m

not really interested in official history, i wanted to tell that story through individuals and i went in search of such people in turkey and in bulgaria, in the border zone. and how much of the horrors of that time linger? because you‘re coming to this in the time we live in now, communism has fallen, the border zone is a different type of place, there is issues to do with borders, of immigration coming into europe, for example, but it‘s a very different political set up now. did you find that the horrors of that communist period are still resonating? the place is still haunted? absolutely. it is still haunted. the forests are haunted. the forests, in parts of the no man‘s land between greece and bulgaria, in particular, there are patches of forest where all the trees are initialled. through different historic eras.

so you can see initials scratched by people who were crossing the border in dire circumstances dating from the 1990s, but also going back to the greek civil war, world war ii, and then you‘ve got the cold war in between. so it‘s a very symbolic place, this no man‘s land, in particular, but to go back to the types of people. i guess one way to find out whether, you know, um, how history has moved on or hasn‘t on the ground is to start listening to people‘s stories. and one type of person who inhabits the border zone is, of course, the border guard, just kind of archetypal. they are the gate keepers, the border guards, regardless of whether it was during the cold war, when it was a very deadlyjob. so that there are still killers, you know, old men now...

never been brought to justice. no. because the system encouraged it. because it was part of the system, it was actually enshrined in law that these border guards were trained and instructed and encouraged to shoot any trespassers they saw. of course, most of the time they simply arrested people. but there were also cases of spontaneous executions along the border. so that was one type of person. and... go on, sorry. and, i guess, the counterpart to the border gatekeeper is the fugitive, which is another, another type of person i wanted to meet. so i travelled to berlin to meet a man who is now in his 60s and who was a young man when he attempted to cross the bulgarian—turkish border in the 1970s and was arrested, but survived. and there‘s a big story there. and of course there are the refugees of today, those trying to cross the border in the other direction,

counter to the direction of the fugitives of the cold war. did you feel a sense of catharsis of people talking to you, is it nice for them to have an outsider coming in and show interest in their lives and given the chance to speak, give them a voice? people already have a voice. it‘s just that it often isn‘t heard in places, in marginalised places. but it certainly struck me that in wounded places like this, in such sort of topographies of trauma, where mass trauma has occurred over a long period of time, including now, because the trauma of the border continues in the shape of the refugees from the middle east trying to cross in similarly desperate circumstances to previous — to fugitives of previous eras, in such wounded places, one looks for any opportunity for healing, really. and conversation can be healing.

silence can also be healing. let‘s talk a bit, shortly, about how you transmit that about how you transmute that listening into writing. but perhaps, before we do, let‘s hear another bit of the book. i spent some time in a village in a mountain range between bulgaria and greece, called the rhodope mountains. and this village is known for its centenarians, who are now apparently dying out, as in the next generation don‘t live so long, but there‘s a bit of a mystery surrounding that. and here is an encounter. ‘"you know the secret of longevity?" a voice suddenly said. i hadn‘t seen him until now. he‘d materialised like a djinn at the table and was already having a shot of rakia on the house. he was a whippet of a man with a hatchet face and straw hair. his eyes were so pale they looked bleached by too much time in the high altitude sun. "the secret is to have

three hearts," he said. "one for loving people, another for loving yourself, and the third one to love the mountains. kostas here has three hearts," he pointed to the greek owner of the taverna. he reminded me of the scarecrow from the wizard of oz. his speech was fast and garbled, not helped by his mixing of bulgarian and greek words. "that‘s the secret, he said, "not yoghurt." "hi, i'm ziko. ziko‘s the name." he got up and bowed unsteadily. "if they ever open up the old road between greece and bulgaria so we can feel normal again," kostas said, "as they have been promising for years, useless states, the both of them, they‘ll now sponsor a statue right by the border pyramid. the statue would be of ziko," kostas said. "life—sized." "wow," ziko said, chuffed. like most in the village,

ziko looked ageless, but he had history. in his late 20s he‘d been stopped by a police car on a deserted road above the village and beaten to a pulp. the beating had changed him forever. the flesh fell away from him, his speech went funny. after a spell in hospital, there was a spell in jail, because ziko had been a notorious people smuggler. "drinks on the house today," kostas rose from his chair, "because i can see this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship."‘ and that is a good example of the people who populate this book. let‘s talk about the way you‘ve written it. because although it has these continual moments of interesting people, there is an interest in poetic vocabulary and the act of expression itself, and the book‘s constructed around various poetic words. there‘s the dyavolsko oko, the bulgarian word for evil eye. there‘s the greek word for competition, antagonismos, which gives us the word agony. you have a poet‘s ear, and an eye for language and its impact.

is that important? this isn‘tjust a simple travel story for you. you‘re excavating the idea of how language works as well. yeah, i‘m so glad that you bring this up, because it is really the key to understanding this region, notjust the border zone but the south—east balkans, which is where this book is very much located, culturally, historically, and the great paradox of this border is that it sort of severs communities and cultures which were naturally enmeshed for many centuries. it is a hugely cosmopolitan, historically, a hugely cosmopolitan part of europe, you know? with the byzantine, ottoman, slavic legacy. so the three languages that are spoken in the three countries on this border all had to find their way into the book, because they‘re part of the texture of local life. and i wanted to capture some

of what the border tried to destroy, which is precisely this sort of rich human narrative and way of life. so i very much, i was very much aware that these words would be foreign, as it were, to an english language reader, or anyone who is not from this region. but it didn‘t matter, because it felt, um... it just felt necessary. so of course we know agony, and a lot of words we know come from greek anyway, and a lot of words still used in the balkans come from turkish, actually from old turkish, which is arabic. so i wove in a few of those words, which are also things in everyday life, such as the roadside drinking fountain known as the cheshma. everybody in the balkans knows what a cheshma is. it‘s a very civilised thing, you know, even on the most

godforsaken road, in any part of the balkans, this is courtesy of the ottomans. you‘ll find a working roadside water fountain, usually with spring water, crystal—clear spring water, and i think there‘s a beauty to that, and there‘s also a story around that. and you are telling these stories in a language that isn‘t your original one. it seems to be another extraordinary thing. this is a poetic book about poetry and three other languages, written in the fourth language. does that give you a sense... i mean, is it helpful to you, in a way, that you are telling this through the english language, because you are this observer, you are both part of that world but also slightly distant from it, and your communications kind of settle along similar lines? absolutely. i think if i were to write in my mother tongue, bulgarian, about this border, or about any subject that is very close to my heart, i wouldn‘t be able to do it,

or not in the same way. why is that do you think? i think it‘s a matter of not being overwhelmed by the emotional charge of what it is that you‘re tackling in the book. and i think the fact that i have been an english—language writer all my adult life, really, has given me that, has added to the outsider—insider perspective. which makes these books possible, for me. how universal a book is this? although it‘s very much set in the land you are writing about, you quote a line from another author in the book, which is "all peoples are, in a sense, immigrants". are you telling essentially a universal story about people‘s sense of home or what happens when people are forced to move and people come into contact with other people, or when cultures mingle and are separated ? it‘s the edge of europe, a specific

area, but is this a universal thing? area, but is this a universal theme? i feel this is the case, i hope that‘s how it comes across. these are universal stories. these are in some cases archetypal situations that people find themselves in. you know, can i cross this line? this whole idea of transgression, who is in, who is out. it‘s very much an archetypal human experience. also, loss, in the case of today‘s refugees and yesterday‘s refugees, total loss. literally carrying all your belongings in a plastic bag. i think it‘s important, like some of the people of the border zone have done, for all of us to find that bit of poetry, or that bit of life, with which we connect deeply, and which we truly love. well, that is quite a good link

into dancing, because you wrote a book about dancing, about tango, called 12 minutes of love. tango is of course a dance that was forged in immigrant communities, a combination of cultures merging together. why are you so interested in the tango? you wrote a book about it, it was clearly an essential part of your life. what does it mean to you? is it a moment of beauty in the world? tango is the world‘s most beautiful dance, of course. argentinian tango, not ballroom tango. that was an obsession i had for a number of years. i became interested in why people become so caught up in the culture of tango, which is now a global phenomenon. and i decided to trace the story of the tango itself from its roots, and its roots are in immigration, in fact. it‘s the song and dance and the music of the exiled, that is how it started.

european immigrants to argentina and uruguay, what is known as the rio de la plata region. but it also has its roots in black music. so it‘s a confluence of exile. and i was interested in why people who become part of the global tango community, as i was, for ten years, almost end up living the tango, finding a home in the tango. so it is a kind of secular religion, almost. you have said obsession again. i noticed it, you said you became obsessed. where did these obsessions come from, kapka? do you get them and then you have to follow them and write about them? is that what motivates you to write? well, i think i am a storyteller.

i am always looking for a place where i can connect with a story that is bigger than me, larger than my own experience. and the tango, the story of the tango, is very much one of collective... of collective agony and ecstasy, if you like. but it‘s also the music, the making of tango music is a wonderful story, and one of the poets of tango, an argentinian poet, said "tango is a sad thought that can be danced." that is kind of, you can see that in this book, it‘s full of sad thoughts that are danced. it‘s moments of beauty about a land that is haunted. yeah, and again, you know, what... you know, in the midst of loss, and tango is very much, you know, the subject matter of its songs

is often loss, lost love, lost homeland, the first recorded tango song was mi noche triste, "my sad night", which says it all. 1916, i think it was recorded. the question is, amid all the loss, what can be salvaged? what do we still have, what can we still share? and i think there‘s always a story there. pleasejoin me in thanking the wonderful kapka kassabova. applause. thank you.

hello, it is a mixed picture across the uk today. we have heavy thundery showers and longer periods of rain. it is to do with this area of low pressure, working north and east. the isobars are still close together, bringing gusty winds, strong enough in some areas to bring branches down. in contrast, as the rain has been moving northwards, there is sunshine. despite some sunshine, let‘s watch out for heavy, thundery showers, continuing in northern scotland and northern ireland. ourvana northern scotland and northern ireland. our van a rain working northern scotland and northern ireland. ourvan a rain working its way north and east words, it could push westwards. gusts of up to 45 miles an hour for east anglia and south east england this afternoon. where we have got the sunshine, 17

01’ where we have got the sunshine, 17 or 18 celsius. where we have got the rain, 13 celsius. this evening most of the rain will clear away, some showers in southern and western scotland. elsewhere turning dry and clearer skies and with lighter winds, that will mean mist and fog. a cool night, most will struggle to stay in double figures. tomorrow is straightforward, a day of sunny spells and showers. showers initially in the western side of the uk. some of us may cfu, others will see hardly any at all, winds will be lighter. more in the way of sunshine tomorrow it will feel warmer. parts of south east england getting up to 20 celsius and most of us should be in the mid if not high teens. as we go into sunday, we keep an eye on what is going on in the near

continent. that will bring persistent rain in south east england and east anglia initially on monday. the far north of england that will escape the persistent rain, here we will see showers and showers were scotland and northern ireland and a cool feeling day, 1a — 17 celsius the top temperature on monday. on tuesday, scotland and northern ireland staying dry, showers for england and wales. and 00:29:34,180 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 an unsettled outlook on wednesday.