rising sea levels. voting in the conservative leadership race has closed and the results are expected in the next hour. let's cross to a special edition of politics live with andrew neil. by the end of today, it will be narrowed to the final two. borisjohnson looks set to cruise onto the shortlist and is the favourite to win when party members have their say. the race to decide who will challenge him looks too close to call. it's thursday, it's 12:15, and we're live in westminster.

joining me — conservative home's executive editor mark wallace. the westminster correspondent for the yorkshire post, liz bates. the liberal democrat mp chuka umunna. and the brexit party mep ann widdecombe. today — this man, boris johnson, already has the support of almost half the parliamentary party. that leaves only one place left to fight for. i'm looking forward to making it through to the front two, and looking forward to a civilised debate of ideas. i'm sure i will be picking up some votes but these can be unpredictable, so, i want to go for it. may the best man win, and that's going be me. barring an upset, we expect that challenger to be jeremy hunt or michael gove. we'll be live in this room in the commons at 1pm to bring you the results of the latest ballot in this conservative leadership contest.

so, we are pretty sure mrjohnson goes forward to the final two, not yet sure who will be with him, we will know by the end of today. let's find out who you think, who will be the second? i would imagine it will bejeremy hunt. i think it will be michael gove. i will sayjeremy hunt. michael gove will be my guess. two each. the decider? shall i have a guess? you have the casting vote. probably jeremy hunt. the one thing that makes me wonder is i think a lot of tory mps who want mrjohnson to have more of a run for his money think that michael gove would give him more of a run for his money. i think that is right. it is extraordinary we are in this position and that boris johnson extraordinary we are in this position and that borisjohnson is oi'i position and that borisjohnson is on the cusp of becoming the prime

list of our country. you have seen the comments about the adverse impact he had on the position of one high—profile case. if you look at his comments, the racist comments he has made describing black people as having picking any smiles,... people know all that. and people would say it is taken out of context. but that is the problem, this guy becoming leader of the conservative party and prime minister normalising coming out with that racist hate filled dog hold on, we will have a boris johnson supporterjoining hold on, we will have a boris johnson supporter joining us hold on, we will have a boris johnson supporterjoining us shortly and you can put these points to him. they can answer for him. let us go to norman smith in central lobby. you can see the debate has kicked

off here. it feels like groundhog day. let me ask you this, talk us through what is going to happen today. we will get the result of the latest ballot around 1:05pm. the bottom candidate will be eliminated regardless of how many votes they get, there is no threshold they have to get over. it will be down to three remaining candidates who can go away, have a bite to eat, take a walk. voting resumes again at 3:30pm until 5:30pm. the result will be a little later, about 6:15 p m. charles walker will get up, he is the only man who knows who mrs may has voted for it because he has been given her proxy vote. he will announce another person who will be

knocked out which will leave us with the final two candidates to go to the final two candidates to go to the country and we will learn who it is is going to take on borisjohnson in that final ballot. by in that final ballot. by 6pm or thereabouts, the british people will know which one of two people will know which one of two people will know which one of two people will be our next prime minister. they will know who is going to have to go around the country in the next month or so, doing something like 12 different hustings for tory party members, overjune and july, an awful lot, four hustings a week. that will run on until i thinkjuly 22nd, 5pm, the last time you can vote. we don't know when the result will be announced but my guess is the party will not want to sit on the party will not want to sit on the result, they won't want it to leak. my best guess is we will get the result the next day onjuly 23,

tuesday. that is just a guess. tuesday. that isjust a guess. a busy day for all of us. thank you. does it matter who the second candidate going forward is? it does, the first is, as boris johnson can say, no election is sealed until you know the result. you never know what is going to happen. he may be favourite. on the assumption that favourite status will win through in the end, who goes through, that affects what kind of debate it will be. in the minds of debate it will be. in the minds of former rory stewart supporters, are you out for somebody who might do the most damage to borisjohnson? rory stewart was not out yesterday. was what he did a media distraction or has he changed the shape of the

campaign? he suddenly livened it up for us covering the campaign. the way that he approached it was very different from the other leadership candidates, especially in terms of borisjohnson who hid, and rory was out there talking to people. he reinvigorated the political scene, and he made the case for centrist politics. he seemed to be most popular with people who didn't have a vote in this country. he did, i'm sure you understand that position. liz kendall was saying in the labour leadership elections, there were many outside of the party who thought she had a chance. he introduced a degree of choice, he was saying something completely different. from that point of view

he added interest to the debate. i never thought he would survive for very long because i don't think what he was saying resonated with the electorate he was addressing which we re electorate he was addressing which were conservative mps. but he brought interest. i am all for choice even if i strongly disagree with someone. what is wrong with debate. which is why he grabbed media attention. damian collins is supporting boris johnson, welcome to the programme. there is a lot of talk of skulduggery at this stage, of votes being lent. the telegraph says, johnson hatches a plot to knock out gove, supporters could vote tactically as they hope for hunt in the final two. is that true? it is not true. it doesn't matter who the number two is. i don't know what it was like in

the old days! the old days! i think they are all very experienced cabinet ministers with different qualities, they will all be part of a leadership debate full of challenge. which one does mrjohnson feared the most? i don't think he fears anything. he must have a view one would be tougher than the other. what he is best served to do is concentrating on getting his supporters through the lobby and not worrying about others. in any leadership election you try to win the support of your colleagues and have a block that will vote for you. if you don't control those votes you have no real say. have you voted for any other candidate? have no real say. have you voted for any other candidate ?|j have no real say. have you voted for any other candidate? i have voted for boris all the way through. how do we know that? we don't. my first was cast by proxy, you can ask my proxy. given he is a boris support

as well, i would be surprised if he didn't. and why should skulduggery happen in conservative leadership elections? candidates often have a view who they want eliminated early and if they look socially ahead, they will lend their vote tactically to others to ensure they have the right line up at the end. a very, very common phenomenon and i'm sorry it happens at leadership elections. andrew asked how we know you voted for boris, i know because i know you are an honourable man, but that is not universal. you follow these things, mark, has there been skulduggery in this campaign? there has been dreaming of skulduggery at a minimum. politicians dream of skulduggery.

this is a secret ballot of politicians who are more secretive and sometimes more misleading than even the secret ballot of the general electorate. the extra fat is even when mps think it might be nice to do some cunning schemes they are not always successful and they have backfired. you have accidentally put through someone who they thought was a dead cert to beat who has ended up becoming leader of the conservative party. mrjohnson has another supporter, george osborne, formerly chancellor of the exchequer, a leading remainer. this is from the evening standard where he is editor. in the editorial endorsing him he says, ask yourself which of these potential prime ministers is most likely to persuade the party to vote for a

repacked version of the existing deal and concludes boris johnson repacked version of the existing deal and concludes borisjohnson is the man. or he might allow a second referendum. what you think of that? i don't think this referendum will happen. what boris has demonstrated and i'm not surprised he hasn't george osborne's endorsement, is boris can build a broad coalition across the conservative party. others recognise this as a period of political crisis caused by the fact brexit has not been delivered when we said it would. people want a bold, dynamic figure to get this done. there have been some grossly offensive things about large portions of our country. offensive things about large portions of our countrylj offensive things about large portions of our country. i heard what you said about that, i don't think you can character of someone in that way who can successfully be mayor or one of the most multicultural cities in the world, who has worked with people from all backgrounds, endorsed by mps.

who has worked with people from all backgrounds, endorsed by mpsm who has worked with people from all backgrounds, endorsed by mps. it is 0k backgrounds, endorsed by mps. it is okfor him backgrounds, endorsed by mps. it is ok for him to come out with flag ra ntly ok for him to come out with flagrantly racist comments among a whole host of other offensive things about large portions of our community? it is normalising it by seemingly putting him in number 10. people are interested in the big picture, the big issues. let me tell you something. no, you had a good go on this. i am trying to answer... having watermelon smiles, saying thatis having watermelon smiles, saying that is a big issue. can we hear from somebody else? what people are interested in is the big issue and i actually think it would be a step forward if instead of trawling through everybody's forward if instead of trawling through eve rybody's past forward if instead of trawling through everybody's past statements to find something that is going to be offensive, you actually concentrate on their ability to deliver and what they are going to deliver, that will be a big step forward. let me come on to... and talking about muslim women dog i am

conducting this debate. coming on to the big picture, for borisjohnson, is theresa may's withdrawal agreement dead? yes. over. parliament has said so. he is going to negotiate a new deal? what boris has said is the basis of his negotiation will be in support of the anything the commons has agreed so far which is the removal of the backstop provision so if there is a tradition when really there is a tradition when really there is a tradition when really there is an end date or we have the benefit to trigger an end date. that is the theresa may deal with one change. a significant change. hugely significant because it addresses the issue northern ireland mps would not support. you have contradicted yourself. i asked you quite clearly is the theresa may deal dead, you said, yes. within ten seconds, you said, yes. within ten seconds, you said, actually, will make one change and get it through. a fundamental

change. it is amended. but totally different. a really significant change. mrjohnson's supporters have been telling hardline people that the theresa may deal is dead. he is telling you one thing and the e r g another. it is the same thing, the amendment part is massively...m another. it is the same thing, the amendment part is massively... it is not dead. thejohnson people beat me he simply wants one change to the withdrawal agreement on the backstop and he will accept it. it is the theresa may deal with one amendment. we are looking at this with different perspectives. i think the may deal and it is very different. but if only one sentence has changed, and my understanding is that what he wants is to say that in the event of the future negotiations, failing to come to any

agreement that the backstop will cease to exist after a certain amount of time, that is the only change he is looking for. so he wa nts to change he is looking for. so he wants to get an amended deal through. if that is not significant, why did the erg reject it? so he is trying to get the may deal through with one change? but that is not the may deal. we have been talking about the backstop for nine months now. may deal. we have been talking about the backstop for nine months nowm is the may deal with one change, i am afraid. the eu thought that wasn't the deal they had signed. he is keeping certain elements of the may deal. he is keeping every element of the may deal in this scenario, except the backstop. which was the single issue which has divided parliament. so steve baker and ard, are they happy with this? —— and the erg.

and ard, are they happy with this? -- and the erg. andrew, as you will remember, this removal of the backstop was part of what was known as the malthouse compromise where people like steve baker came together because they realised we we re together because they realised we were no longer binding ourselves into a negotiating process where we could be looked into the customs union or something like it. we could still look at aspects of the free trade agreement that people like steve baker trade agreement that people like steve ba ker wa nted. trade agreement that people like steve baker wanted. we would be keeping our options open during the transition. that is why they came together to support it and that was why that amendment got through the house of commons. this may sound like a small change, but it totally changes the way this process would work afterwards and would lead to a different outcome. there are two issues. firstly, it is highly unlikely that the eu would ever acce pt unlikely that the eu would ever accept the mull has come from mice. i met with one of the largest countries' senior diplomats yesterday and it is not going to happen. secondly, johnson will probably seek to find an excuse for going forward with an extension, which will probably be granted for at least a few months. the excuse that will be given will be twofold. firstly, he would get into

government and say, i have found we are not ready to leave without a deal, we need a few more months. secondly, he will appoint an attorney general who would give him what geoffrey cox did not differ may, and provide some excuse, some tweak to the deal that does the job that the erg want. do boris johnson's supporters realise that he is trying to do what damian collins has said, that he simply wants one change affecting the backstop, an important change, but one change, and it is the rest of the may withdrawal agreement. do they realise that? i think some do. people are acutely aware that there isa people are acutely aware that there is a risk of different things being said in different parts of this race. for example, boris johnson said in different parts of this race. for example, borisjohnson did win the erg hustings, which was only between him and dominic raab, by being seen as the erg is more firm on the guaranteed exit by the 31st of october. there are some people

who are unnerved by the more vague language since then. let me hear from liz. there is a sense among some people that boris is saying different things to different people behind closed doors. there is also something else going on, which is that people like damien are projecting their own wishes on to paris because he has been so absent from the debate. —— they are projecting their wishes onto boris. lam basing projecting their wishes onto boris. i am basing it on the things he has said and written during this campaign, which he has been really clear on, the things he would seek to renegotiate. but he has left the door open for no deal. he did say clearly to the erg at the beginning of all this that we would leave on the 31st of october. now he is saying it is eminently feasible that we leave. now, which is it? when he says eminently feasible, it is

feasible to get a renegotiated deal. but if not, we leave at the end of october without a deal. are you happy with that? how is it possible to do happy with that? how is it possible todoa happy with that? how is it possible to do a deal by the end of october? the presidencies of the different institutions of the eu are changing. the commissioners will be changing. we have the august weeks ahead. but if he only wants one change, and he will probably say, ijust if he only wants one change, and he will probably say, i just want one sentence changed, i simply want it to be said that if a future partnership negotiations break down, the backstop will not pertain any more. that is all he will want, and that can be done. we don't know if the eu will go down that road, of course. if they don't, and if the eu sticks to its guns, are you happy to leave with no deal? are you prepared to leave with no deal aren't october the 31st? leaving with no deal is not the outcome i have sought from

the start of this process. but failure to leave at the end of october and a further extension will mmp october and a further extension will ramp up the anger and tensions in this country which have undermined confidence. we have to be prepared to leave. we have to say to the eu, there will not be an extension. we have to focus minds now to say this process ends at the end of october. and what will mrjohnson do if parliament stops you from leaving on october the 31st? parliament then has to decide one way or another whether it wishes to revoke article 50 or whether it wishes to leave without a deal. it could still vote to stop a deal. well, the decision on whether we extend is a decision made at the european council by the prime minister. but we have to ask for it. if the prime minister and the government make clear they will not seek an extension, and of course it may not be granted. president macron has been reluctant to grant any extensions so far. we have had some tweets from steve baker. can we get them up? we have had tweets from

steve baker showing that he wants a lot more than just the change in the backstop. is mrjohnson agreeing with that? boris has set out his objectives in the renegotiation many times. steve will be aware of that. the question is during the transition period, if we got this renegotiation, because we have not so far, there are all sorts of negotiations about the nature of our future relationship with europe. but steve baker, speaking for part of the erg, the tory brexiteers, says one of the things he doesn't want which is in the may withdrawal agreement is for the ecj to continue to be the top court with jurisdiction of the uk during the transition period. does mrjohnson wa nt to transition period. does mrjohnson want to change that? well, that would be open for negotiation. but you can't negotiate unless he wants to change it. does mrjohnson want

to change it. does mrjohnson want to change it. does mrjohnson want to change that? you don't know, do you? i think the negotiation is based on the backstop primarily. hold on, i'm trying to get some clarity here. does mrjohnson accept, or does he not, the continued jurisdiction of the ecj during a transition period? during the transition as set out in the agreement, we will be members of the single market until we leave. those are the rules as they stand.|j single market until we leave. those are the rules as they stand. i am not asking what the rules are. i know what the rules are because i have read the rules. i'm asking if mrjohnson wants to change the rules, or does he go along with steve baker, saying we can't have the ecj rule, a pretty hard ask, because they would not agree if we are still within the single market. 0r are still within the single market. or does are still within the single market. 0rdoes mr are still within the single market. or does mrjohnson, as part of the negotiation, want to change that as well? the principal objective is on the backstop. whatever is

renegotiated, boris would still have to get the house and the party to agree to that. i understand that, but i'm trying to establish the principle. you have said mrjohnson has laid out his renegotiation plan for a next round of negotiations if he becomes prime minister. 0ther than trying to get a change to the backstop, what else is in that plan? well, that is the main objective. so it is not a plan, it is one point? no, because boris has looked at what the plan is so far is that it is about the malthouse compromise, which is was about removing the backstop. but hold on, you said mr johnson had clearly laid out his negotiating plan. iam johnson had clearly laid out his negotiating plan. i am asking you what is in that plan, and other than changing the backstop, there is no plan. the key aspect of the planned... it is the only aspect. it

is an important one. if that is the key aspect, logically, there must be other aspects for one of them to be key, unless it is the only one. if it is the key aspect, what are the other aspects of his renegotiation plan? well, it is based on that objective, which is to remove the backstop provision so we can have an open discussion on transition and not be bound by potential membership of the customs union for a prolonged period of time. that is something that has been a consensus over in the conservative party for some time. it is the key change we wanted. as steve baker has said, people will have other views on what they would like as part of those negotiations. we will have to get behind whatever comes. we may have to decide if we have been successful in things like getting rid of the backstop but not others, whether thatis backstop but not others, whether that is good enough. but i still don't know, and more importantly, i don't know, and more importantly, i don't think our viewers know, whether mr borisjohnson don't think our viewers know, whether mr boris johnson is don't think our viewers know, whether mr borisjohnson is going to ask for anything more than a change

to the backstop. where we differ is that i think that change is fundamentally the nature of the transition pin. i'm not asking about the importance of it, i'm some pre—saying it's a one trick pony. but if he doesn't get it, he will leave without a deal. exactly. when did you change your mind on no deal, damien? you have said before that that would be a terrible thing to do and that parliament should stop it. because we have to look at what has happened, the consequences of this process being elongated, the impact that has had. therefore, for me, the risk of running this process for another year is much greater than the risk of leaving without a deal. so when did that change? when you decided to support borisjohnson? no, that was one of the reasons i supported boris johnson, no, that was one of the reasons i supported borisjohnson, because i believed we had to bring this process to a close. the risks of not doing that are greater than the risks of a new deal brexit. didn't you change your mind when the brexit party started topping the polls? no,

it wasn't then. most mps can see that this has caused a lot of anger and the consequence of this is an undermining of our whole political system and parliament. we have to deal with that. we have run out of time. damian collins, you want to go overfor time. damian collins, you want to go over for the next result, time. damian collins, you want to go overfor the next result, which time. damian collins, you want to go over for the next result, which will be coming up injust under 20 minutes. thank you for being with us. minutes. thank you for being with us. let's talk about chuka umunna now and his politicaljourney. three different parties in almost as many months. you're now in the lib dems. we have been on—air now for half an hour. are you still in the lib dems?! i am still in the lib dems! that must be the longest time for a while you have stayed in one party, for over half an hour. yes. i thought you might put it like that. who will you be backing to be your leader? i'm not backing either of the two main candidates in the contest. as it happened, i don't

after the fees state, the point at which you have to have been in member in order to vote. i only joined the party a week ago today, so it would be a bit untoward to start dictating things. but you're already the treasury spokesperson.” wasn't expecting to be asked to do that. surely the lib dem treasury spokesman must have a view on who your next leader should be. as it happens, i don't. your next leader should be. as it happens, idon't. i your next leader should be. as it happens, i don't. iwill work your next leader should be. as it happens, i don't. i will work with whoever wins the contest. unless you leave and make it four.” whoever wins the contest. unless you leave and make it four. i will not be doing that. you must have a view on whether it isjo swinson or ed davey. my brain has not gone yet. which one has more appeal? i'm not endorsing either. have they asked you? no, they haven't. a large part of the reason that ijoined the liberal democrats, other than the fa ct liberal democrats, other than the fact that i'm a social democrats with liberal values, is because of

vince cable, who i got to know well when i was shadowing him in opposition. i was quite critical at the time of many of the things he did. you were, i have got all of that here, don't worry.” did. you were, i have got all of that here, don't worry. i am sure you have. iam that here, don't worry. i am sure you have. i am waiting for the tweets to be brought up. this is the third political party in almost as many months. your constituents must bea many months. your constituents must be a bit confused by all this. they have got properjobs, it's hard for them to keep track of which party you are in. time to give them a people's vote? actually, my constituency scored the highest remain vote in the country in the 2016 referendum. but they didn't vote for you just for remain, they voted for you because you were labour. if i can just voted for you because you were labour. ifi canjust finish voted for you because you were labour. if i can just finish the thought, i actually think that the way the electorate is voting in an election is less of a left—right thing and more of an open closed thing. my constituents are very open minded. they are very

internationalist. so you're hoping they are smart and open—minded enough to work out which party with ina enough to work out which party with in a by—election and decide if they wa nt to in a by—election and decide if they want to vote for you. the main reason voted for me in streatham is because of my position on brexit. when you compare my performance in the last general election to the performance of kate hoey next door, i got 15%... performance of kate hoey next door, i got 1596. .. look performance of kate hoey next door, i got 15%... look at performance of kate hoey next door, i got 1596. .. look at what performance of kate hoey next door, i got 1596... look at what you said in april of 2017. whatever common ground we may have with the lib dems and some tories on brexit, i cannot forgive them for what they have done to my area. let me explain, the liberal democrats have changed since then. in every single one of the budgets since 2015 they have voted against the tory budgets, they stood on a 2017 anti—austerity manifesto and has voted in accordance with that sense, arguing for the reverse of

cuts to housing benefit and universal credit. if your concern is to end austerity as it is mine, the best way of doing that is to ensure we stay in the eu. you cannot leave the eu and end austerity. that is what the two main parties are seeking. have you forgiven them? i wouldn't put it like that. it is not something i think i wouldn't use that language. what i would say is things have changed. there are lots of things political parties do that people might think... many in the labour party think the iraq war was unforgivable but are still members. the lib dems have changed. ann widdecombe, do you have sympathy with that position given you have changed parties? i changed once, haven't changed twice in the matter of months. give it time. that won't happen. i never did understand why you and the

other mps never did understand why you and the other mstoined this never did understand why you and the other mps joined this extraordinary party called change uk because it did not differ from the lib dems. i explained that. i thought the millions of homeless people, i thought they wanted a new party. as it turns out the clear message we have got from the results and what people were saying was they didn't wa nt people were saying was they didn't want a new party but wanted the centre ground that would work more closely. you either ignore that or ta ke closely. you either ignore that or take heed of the message. you are a slow learner, most of us realised it at the time. iam being realised it at the time. i am being honest. realised it at the time. iam being honest. a realised it at the time. i am being honest. a lot of people in and around the lib dems were questioning whether they would be the main centre ground party in the next general election. other than a common desire to get out of the eu even with no deal if that is what it ta kes, even with no deal if that is what it takes, what else do you have in common with your fellow meps in

brussels? first of all, our main aim, just a minute, our main aim is to leave the eu and this is where i want to finish, clearly and decisively and on wto terms, and then we can negotiate a trade deal after. that was a distinctive position and i am glad when we went into the european elections that was the only position we did have because there was no other reason for people to vote to us. other reason for people to vote to us. and we topped the polls. what i'm saying is what else do you have in common? our new party has succeeded big time. let me see if i can succeed in getting you to answer the question which is, what else do you have in common? we want democratic politics in this country. at this moment, andrew, there is a major policy meeting going on to produce the policies we

will have to have and which we acknowledge we will have to have, for a general election. it is going on now. let us go to the committee room where all the action is. not a lot to see. we have seen it so often. the woodwork and expensive wallpaper. where the announcement will be made probablyjust after 1pm, to winnow down the hopefuls down to three and by 6pm this evening, down to two. and off they will go to hustings. while we wait, next. let's turn briefly to labour. the shadow cabinet met yesterday to discuss whether to back a wholehearted remain position. and it wasn't entirely conclusive. let's speak to michael chessum, he's a labour activist who wants the party to back remain. are you worried thatjeremy corbyn

is now stringing you along on this issue? it is not the stringing along, but it was disappointing the shadow cabinet didn't make their position more clearly on wednesday. it is likely to be inevitable labour will end up being an anti brexit party. we are organising a wave of motions at the labour party conference in september to deliver a huge mandate for a clear anti brexit position and unequivocal backing of freedom of movement. it is delaying the inevitable. i understand it looks like the tide is with you in the labour party, more people coming round to your view. as you say you are not there yet. so, who is the roadblock to reform? look, it is clear the overwhelming majority of labour members want the

party to dhull we know that, who is holding that up if it is notjeremy corbyn? the honest answer is it is very difficult to tell because the people holding it up are to be frank not that accountable. john mcdonnell, keir starmer, emily thornberry, even jeremy himself, not necessarily an enthusiast for a fresh public vote but suddenly willing to go there... su—hyun 0h are holding them up —— so, who are holding them up?” su—hyun 0h are holding them up —— so, who are holding them up? i don't wa nt to so, who are holding them up? i don't want to get into name—calling.” so, who are holding them up? i don't want to get into name-calling. i am simply asking, you think you are on the wave of an inevitable trend, people are holding it up, who are they? if notjeremy corbyn. they? if not jeremy corbyn. there are senior unelected people at the heart of the labour machine, the labour party has a problem with machine

politics. who are they? chuka umunna will throw out some names, do you agree? len mccluskey. is he holding it up? yes, look, it isa is he holding it up? yes, look, it is a real shame, is he holding it up? yes, look, it is a realshame, i is he holding it up? yes, look, it is a real shame, i am a member of the unite union... is he holding it up? yes, i think the role len mccluskey has played... so, we have len mccluskey. what about seamus milne, the head of jeremy corbyn's office. i'm sorry, this is about me wanting to talk about the actual politics of the situation. you can ask whoever you wa nt to situation. you can ask whoever you want to give the answer. the important thing is the politics. we are about to enter a period in which are about to enter a period in which a conservative, a hard, right—wing conservative prime minister still will try to drag us out of the eu without a deal or a hard deal basis without a deal or a hard deal basis with no mandate and we have to resist that. that is the political

discussion. what you want in response to that as i understand is a summer response to that as i understand is a summer of mass occupations, disruptive protests, and wildcat strike action, is that right? well, yes. we are now in a position where a hard deal brexit... well, yes. we are now in a position where a hard deal brexit. .. we know what that is, i am asking what your actions will be. do you think wildcat strike action... 0r mass occupations... do you think that will win hearts and minds? there is a long tradition in britain of protest, radical protest when governments take decisions in unaccountable ways. we are about to enter a period where we will get an extreme, right—wing tory prime minister trying to wreck communities and open up the nhs to privatisation via trade deals with america. with

almost no popular mandate. under those circumstances i think people have the right to take civil disobedience, to take no action macro to take nonviolent action.” understand the logic of your case and what you plan to do. who will organise these mass occupations and wildcat strike action? we have an interesting situation, 1 million people march against brexit, hundreds of thousands against tramp. a very active dog we have had extinction rebellion. all of the ingredients for a big wave of protest are there —— hundreds of thousands against donald trump, and a very active....

you mentioned the big anti brexit march in london. which was in the very british tradition of the massive, peaceful march, which was all planned, didn't disrupt anything. i watched that on television and looked at the faces of the people. do you think these are the people who will take wildcat strike action? it is something we should be willing to consider. if you have a situation where a government is going to wreck communities, wreck the future of the country and the public services with no mandate, it is legitimate to have a conversation about where the boundaries of dissent end. they don'tjust end at passive marches. we have a long history of that, they have their role in protest movements. but yes, we have to be willing to look towards more radical

measures. if you have got an opposite side, the tory party bent ona opposite side, the tory party bent on a pretty hardcore... we need to leave it there. thank you. let us know if there are going to be any strikes because people are going off on holiday. they would probably like to know if you are going to disrupt their planes. thank you forjoining us. we will see if we are in for a summer of discontent. let's welcome the conservative mp simon hoare, he's supporting sajid javid. you have your sajid javid badge. i sleep in it, andrew! what you do in the privacy of your attic is none of our business! it isa our business! it is a race between mr hunt and mr gove, sajid javid will be leaving this race in four minutes. i don't know that, i hope not. you

hope not but he will be. let us wait and see. if he does. we have seen a positive campaign and it has picked up momentum. a few weeks ago colleagues were saying he did not have the support to get on to the ballot and here we are. anything can happen. i am hopeful. the ballot and here we are. anything can happen. iam hopeful. you have to be an optimist in this game. if the likely happens, we love surprises, you may be right, if i am right, who will you back in the ballot this afternoon? we only have a few moments to wait, let us wait and see what the result is. i may be going into room 16 which is what i hope to vote for sajid javid. once he is knocked out, will you tell us after that? you are countering my optimism with your pessimism. i will,

countering my optimism with your pessimism. iwill, i countering my optimism with your pessimism. i will, i will take that decision, if i have to. if sajid javid is knocked out, do his votes go en bloc somewhere? they could potentially go all over the place but the interesting thing is there has been discussion that borisjohnson if he is up to skulduggery could be passing votes to sajid javid to get rid of michael gove at this stage, that would be interesting to see. does that sort of thing happen? who knows, people tell me it doesn't but the evidence is to the contrary. i have to say sajid javid has run a very good campaign and put himself ina good very good campaign and put himself in a good position, touted for chancellor, he has set out some really good comic interesting political proposals for rebalancing the uk economy. 0k.

it's coming up to one o'clock, and we say goodbye to viewers watching on bbc two which will be showing the tennis at queen's. we'll continue on the bbc news channel. mark wallace, what do you think happens to sajid javid's votes, should he drop out? we have seen that x candidates don't control theirformer that x candidates don't control their former supporters. that x candidates don't control theirformersupporters. i that x candidates don't control their former supporters. i think they will shatter. also in the previous round, and the bbc debate he went out of his way to appeal to former dominic raab supporters come that will not go well with rory stewart supporters but that means his race is a mix of different things. i think no candidate takes

all their supporters with them, they will not... they don't have what the americans call coat—tails. will not... they don't have what the americans call coat-tails. one thing thatis americans call coat-tails. one thing that is forgotten, because it's the human side of a leadership election and that is the human emotional capital that get invested in support ofa capital that get invested in support of a candidate, you get to know them, i will not say it's like a bereavement but i've been talking to colleagues who have been working their socks off, they do get upset and need a bit of time to gather their thoughts and think about things because the person they invested all their help and support in has disappeared from the contest and it's that human nature of politics that often gets overlooked. your colleagues in the conservative backbenches in the parliamentary party are filling up in committee room 12, i think the next one will

be in room 15. ijust want to make sure you get to the right room. music. the waiting is over. the wait is over after hip surgery and months of the tour and andy murray returns to a match court, playing in the doubles alongside feliciano lopez. he is delighted to be back and he has missed the tour and we have missed watching him, so andy murray is in doubles action later on today. we are beginning to get used to this site, and the offices of the 1922

committee will come on stage shortly, and i am told we will get a result at about 1:05pm. ann widdecombe is a former conservative, still conservative leanings. has this contest been a class or a minus for the conservative party?” this contest been a class or a minus for the conservative party? i think it's a huge minus. 12 candidates, it looked bonkers and it was bonkers. but i think, as you get down to the last few, and i don'tjust think the last few, and i don'tjust think the last two, we are in more sensible territory, it becomes somewhat more interesting, but the thing the conservative party had to do, frankly, was to change its leader but, as far as i am concerned, none of them are offering the kind of guarantees. we have spoken to the party. because, as we know, nigel farage had endless frustrations with ukip, once describing them as people who come with sandwiches in rucksacks...

we are topping the polls! you are all in denial, and that's what you can't face. this is a huge success for you. this isjust the can't face. this is a huge success for you. this is just the mps, can't face. this is a huge success for you. this isjust the mps, and not any large number of them. if you really wa nted not any large number of them. if you really wanted to democratic process, andi really wanted to democratic process, and i used to say this in the conservative party, you would actually reverse the order, and you'd have the party and the country decide, look at round two and three, and then the mps deciding, with their knowledge. don't give them any ideas! we'll have to go through it ain! ideas! we'll have to go through it again! the point is that they have made it very difficult for whoever becomes your next leader to call a general election without brexit being resolved. they will take you to the cleaners if you go to the country without brexit being resolved. you are right, andrew. this is part of the reason why i wasn't in favour of having a leadership contest in the first

interest. it doesn't change the parliamentary arithmetic. there isn't a sort of silver bullet that suddenly can be found somewhere in the arsenal. we wouldn't be in a general election scenario handing over to somebody who understands the sort of international rules —based way of doing politics. we know that mr corbyn is a left—wing firebrand, so the risk of back to the country, the economy, jobs and prosperity is too risky to play with, so whoever wins at the end of this process, whether it is front or back ended, is going to find it a challenge. it's going to be difficult, and anybody who purports it's going to not be is living in cloud cuckoo land. we need to say goodbye to ann widdecombe and chuka umunna, i am you've had too much fun, and we are sorry about that, but will let you go. you are going to stay with us. do you believe it's been a healthy

awe annul healthy —— of a healthy or an process? hold that thought, because there they are, in the room. suddenly, chuka umunna and ann widdecombe want to stay. customer charles walker and i, as returning officers for the election of a leaderfor the officers for the election of a leader for the conservative and unionist party, do now declare the results of the fourth ballot. the total number of those cast into day's ballot were 313. the total number of spoilt ballot papers was two. laughter. thank you. the total votes to each candidate in alphabetical order were as follows. michael gove, 69. jeremy

hunt, 59. sajid javid, 34. boris johnson, 157. the following candidates are now eligible to continue on to the next ballot, which will take place this afternoon at 3:30pm in committee room 14. michael gove, jeremy hunt and boris johnson. thank you very much indeed. is that was cheryl gillan of conservative 1922 committee, giving the result of the latest ballot for the result of the latest ballot for the leadership. boris johnson the result of the latest ballot for the leadership. borisjohnson has added to his votes and got 157. he is way ahead in that. the interest here is for second position, and michael gove, for the first time in this leadership race, has moved into second position, with 61 votes, followed byjeremy hunt on 59. sajid

javid got 34, not a big improvement on where he was in the last ballot. he now drops out. three candidates this afternoon will go forward to the next ballot. borisjohnson, michael gove and jeremy hunt. and which one, mrjohnson clearly going through to the final round, and the hustings among the party members, but the battle is now on foss i desperate for sajid javid's votes, to see where they go. does mr hunt hold onto his lead and be the man who goes forward or does that go to mrgove? give him who goes forward or does that go to mr gove? give him your reaction. firstly, boris johnson mr gove? give him your reaction. firstly, borisjohnson won an outright majority of the votes cast, 157 of 313. chemical and spoilt, so

he's got more. that in itself is quite a clear message, a restatement of that dominance. michael gove, as we suggested earlier, has snuck into second place, mirroring our own survey on conservative home, who put him ina survey on conservative home, who put him in a distant second place this morning, and thirdly, this is that you just read's big moment. if he has any sway, and that may be limited over his former supporters, whoever gets into the second round could end up owing him. your reaction? interesting result, with mr gove reaction? interesting result, with mrgove in reaction? interesting result, with mr gove in second position. yes, because michael gove was a big favourite coming into the leadership contest and hasn't had a very good contest, partly because of the revelations about him, but also the way he's dealt with it, losing a bit of confidence. i think there was a feeling, with the membership, that

because he is the only pure brexit candidate, in that sense, that he was the stop boris candidate, but he hasn't been in second place before, and now he is, and borisjohnson's team will be worried. he is the one they don't want. it looks to me from that result like, if they have been trying to do any sort of tactical voting, it hasn't happened, so it will be interesting this afternoon for the if it ends up with hunt in second place, ithink for the if it ends up with hunt in second place, i think it will be quite boring. don't say that, we got a month of it! the one thing tory members really don't want is personalised lieu on blue, and some people were worried last week when michael gove started personalising it in the q&a after his launch i don't think there will be much appetite for three weeks of that. but, if it is him, mr gove will be playing for position, probably knowing he can't beat mrjohnson

without a huge upset, so he won't wa nt to without a huge upset, so he won't want to make it too personal in a way that can surmount from being chancellor, home secretary or whatever, so it could be a muffled contest. people like me will do our best to make it bare—knuckle, but it could be muffled. ten or 12 minutes ago, when i told you sludge each feed was going to fall out, what bit of that didn't you understand? —— sajid javid. you are right to make that prediction. obviously, i'm disappointed, and slightly sad to see him out of the contest, but i am really proud of how he has conducted himself. the broad base of support has built, both in the parliamentary party and in the country, and the interest in his ideas. i think we will not all follow and join another caravan, people will break for different candidates, which will be quite interesting, but if you were going to ask me, do i regret backing

him, absolutely not. he is a first—class candidate with a big future in the party. i will ask your question, but it wasn't going to be that one, but now i've thought of it, it might be the let's refresh you on the result, for people who arejust coming in. borisjohnson now getting, what is it called, a majority? an outright majority. clearly going through, as has always been the case, to the party membership out in the country. then it goes down to two. the surprise there is i think we got the names wrong, we are now calling michael govejeremy wrong, we are now calling michael gove jeremy hunt, whereas wrong, we are now calling michael govejeremy hunt, whereas he is actually michael gove. we got the picture right but the name wrong. it's confusing, but that was the producer trying to catch me out, you know. but i know michael gove when i

see him. mr hunt now in third place. he's been in second for the race, but no on 59, with sajid javid down to 34. you've been working on the campaign. you are pretty close to him and you've helped him. do you have any indications where he himself will go with the three remaining candidates? no. wonga and what about his support? you all agreed that isn't a block of 34 that can be moved onto the hunt or the gove column or the johnson can be moved onto the hunt or the gove column or thejohnson column, but do you have any sense of how they may split? no, in all honesty, i have no idea because we haven't discussed it. we have been focused on trying to get through the rounds, to make the case, to be positive and keep all of us focused on that ultimate objective, to unite and

bind afairly ultimate objective, to unite and bind a fairly divided parliamentary party at the end of this process. this process, as long as it is, has to come to an end, and we haven't had that. that might be naive, but we haven't had it we can now go to the commons and penny morduant. welcome to the programme. a supporter ofjeremy hunt in this leadership race. you must be disappointed he has been relegated to third place. i saw that we had a couple of spoilt ballot papers, and i don't know which of my colleagues did that, but he's reached this stage, and i am glad he is still in the race, and i think it's incredibly important that we now focus on which to metric candidates will make the best final, and doesn't necessarily mean entertainment for journalists, doesn't necessarily mean entertainment forjournalists, but people that are actually going to focus on the issues, the policies and set out a vision and direction for the party, and i am supporting jeremy hunt because i think he is the guy to do that. why is there no

momentum behind his campaign? he's fallen back. why do you think that is? he's been steady and setting at a very clear vision, notjust on how he intends to get brexit done and done well for the country, but on a whole variety of other issues that the public really care about. i think we've seen a lot of tactical voting in previous rounds, but now, just as the first round was, now you are going to see people telling the truth in their votes, i think. you are going to be seeing people voting for the people they want to see in the final. that's what i hope is going to happen. and i think we should put the brexit remain debate behind us and pick the two candidates who are going to make the best prime ministers, and that's what should be doing. we should remember is not about us and our party but the next prime minister, too. hunt has had the tories must select a leader the eu will deal

with, implying, indicating, indeed, that the eu would not deal with borisjohnson. do you agree with that? well, i can't read the minds of european leaders, but what i do think is important is that we put someone think is important is that we put someone forward who is going to be able to get some movement on the deal. now, everyone has said that's impossible. i don't think it is impossible, from conversations i've had with european counterparts, people from the commission. i think whatjeremy brings to that he knows those people well. not out on this course of action without a sense of what is achievable, and that's why i'm backing his campaign. boris will have his own style, and he's been foreign secretary, too, so let's see, but my confidence is behind jeremy hunt. hi do you agree with your candidate, that brussels will not deal with boris johnson?”

your candidate, that brussels will not dealwith boris johnson? i think they have been quite disparaging, but actually my view is that we need to put forward the best person to get brexit not just to put forward the best person to get brexit notjust over the line but actually delivered well. but that's not my question, so let me try again, do you agree with your candidate that brussels will not deal with boris johnson? candidate that brussels will not deal with borisjohnson?” candidate that brussels will not dealwith boris johnson? i think we stand a better chance withjeremy hunt. i'm not going to be disparaging to other candidates, is not my style, but i think we need to give brussels the best person to deliver brexit, which i think is jeremy hunt. but, in a sense, your candidate, if he is right, is effectively giving brussels a veto over to our next prime minister is, by saying you must select a leader the eu will deal with, indicating they wouldn't deal with mrjohnson, and giving brussels a veto. whether we select, i think the party and the

nation will get behind that. brussels will have to deal with whoever we sent. what i think is critical is that we send them the best person, to get the best deal for britain, and that isjeremy hunt. those who want mrjohnson to be seriously challenged in the hustings want him, for his feet to be held to the fire, even if they believe he can't be beaten, they wa nt believe he can't be beaten, they want him to go through a tough contest, and they believe mr gove is much more the man to do that and your man. what do you say to that?” don't accept that. michael has very gifts, it is a great orator and tell great jokes gifts, it is a great orator and tell greatjokes and deliver good lines, but i think what we need, not that michael is not, but i thinkjeremy‘s strengths are his authenticity, his vision, his clarity, his empathy and compassion dealing with difficult issues, which he has done in previous briefs. i think that is the

material of a good prime minister, and that is what we are selecting, after all. it's not just and that is what we are selecting, after all. it's notjust the leader ofa after all. it's notjust the leader of a party but the prime minister in a few weeks. i am supporting him because of that, because i think he's the most credible candidate, the candidate with the most experience and the candidate most likely to get us out of this terrible situation that we as a party and a country are in, and get us what we need for a bright future. is do you get hopes, and let's assume, though it hasn't always happened, that those who voted this morning vote in the same numbers for mrjohnson, mr gove and mr hunt, leaving the 34 votes of sajid javid up leaving the 34 votes of sajid javid upforgrabs, do leaving the 34 votes of sajid javid up for grabs, do you have hopes, have you had indications that mr hunt can get enough of those to get him into second place?” hunt can get enough of those to get him into second place? i think he can get into the final. he's been the strongest performer in previous

rounds, and as you say it will come down to sajid ‘s votes, his supporter base. i think that will split a number of ways, and people will have been canvassing those individuals, but you can't tell until the votes are in, so for us in westminster it's going to be an exciting afternoon. i wish all the candidates well and i hope we can put through the two best people for a good contest and to make a good prime minister. will your message to conservative mps this afternoon be that a mrjohnson, mr gove final round risks ripping the party apart? is that a concern? i think one of the things we should be looking to secure the things we should be looking to secure throughout this contest is how to bring the party together. we are the governing party. we have to come together to do a good job for our constituents and the people across the country, so that should be at the forefront of our minds. i

think candidates will conduct themselves well. i think people were expecting a lot more fisticuffs throughout the contest than has actually happened. but we've got to carry on that spirit into the final round. that isjeremy hunt's style, andi round. that isjeremy hunt's style, and i hope that other candidates also do that. mr hunt voted for remain in the referendum. he's accepted the result since, i'm not calling that into doubt, but he did vote remain. what chance is there that somebody who voted for remain could win, with a party membership thanks brexit more important than the integrity of the uk? well, i don't think that is the case with jeremy hunt. what i do think is important, and in the last leadership contest i did support a brexiteer, not just leadership contest i did support a brexiteer, notjust because i thought that person should be capable of delivering brexit, but also because i thought they would be able to reach over to the other half

of the nation that voted remain, they wouldn't have to talk about a red, white and blue brexit, they'd be able to use softer language and reach out. i think we are past that now. the difference in politics isn't between those who voted to leave or voted to remain at those who accept the result of the referendum and those who don't. throughout my time in cabinet, jeremy hunt has been resolute.” understand that, but my point really was, is it not an uphill struggle for was, is it not an uphill struggle foer was, is it not an uphill struggle for mr hunt, should he get into the final two, to be dealing with a membership that has perhaps lost its marbles, that thinks brexit more important than the integrity of the uk? your party is called the conservative and unionist party! what is happening to your membership that brexit is more important than the uk? do you agree? no, i don't. my the uk? do you agree? no, i don't. my evidence, i did some live polling

ofa my evidence, i did some live polling of a large chunk of our party a few weeks ago on these precise issues, and we are very much of the unionist party as well as conservatives, and we are looking at to strengthen the uk. but the yougov poll was clear that your mentorship was prepared to go for brexit even if it broke up the uk. i would take polls with a big pinch of salt. as somebody who's beenin big pinch of salt. as somebody who's been in the party for many years and talks to people across the country, from the four nations, i know that we in the conservative party believe in the union, we want to keep the union strong. that is why we have struggled so much to find a way through to deliver brexit. it was at the forefront of our minds in those deliberations as we worked out what to do. so i think the union is safe in our hands, but what we must do is find a way through this, and it is complex, and we need a serious candidate who is going to be able to

do that, and that is why i am supporting hunt, and i hope we have a final with him in it. we will let you go for the you have 34 sajid javid votes to try and rustle up before this afternoon, and we thank you for appearing with us. we are nowjoined by george eustice, supporter of michael gove, i think i'm right in saying that you must be happy that, for the first time, he is in second position. yes, a good result for us. we have slowly been closing the cap withjeremy hunt, and this is a big breakthrough,. do you think he will hold it?” and this is a big breakthrough,. do you think he will hold it? i think we will, and everybody will be working on sajid javid's supporters, we are well—placed, but it's not home and dry. is how solid do you believe the 61 votes to mr tim hi got in this round are? can he bank those, or are we in a fluid situation, where these votes could still move around in the next

ballot? i have seen the telegraph story suggesting that boris johnson might have been leading votes to jeremy hunt and so on. it looks like those tactics were exaggerated or not followed on, but for me, michael gove has been building in every round, so he is keeping that support. cue momentum is with him is mock absolutely. heather stuart in the guardian says... i think voting opens at 3pm. i guess she is talking aboutjeremy hunt. she gets that from a campaign source. she gets that from a campaign source. that is a campaign source of mr hunt. putting aside the world leader issue, which is interesting, the source is referring to the great

psychodrama that happened after the referendum, when it was widely thought mr gove knifed mrjohnson in the back. does that worry you? will that be good for the party? the back. does that worry you? will that be good for the partwm the back. does that worry you? will that be good for the party? it will come and i'll explain why that event would awesomely —— obviously caused tension between them at the time, but since then they worked in cabinet together, working together closely, and they put that event behind them at the time. i worked on the 2005 election, and there was quite a bit of tension at the end of the parliamentary rounds between david davis and david cameron, but when they went out on the hustings circuit around the country, debating, they came together and bonded and became closer at the end of it, and they were then, whoever won it, better placed to put the party back together. i think the same happened on this, that michael gove, borisjohnson, same happened on this, that michael

gove, boris johnson, on same happened on this, that michael gove, borisjohnson, on that hustings circuit, will be part of the healing process for the party. if it is a johnson temple in a run—off, will mr gove pull his punches? —— a johnson against gove run—off? will it get personal, which is what he seemed to imply the last time that they had a bust up, that mrjohnson is unfit to be prime minister? michael is one of the most polite people in politics. he has strong convictions and states them clearly, but he will play this well if he gets to the final. he doesn't wa nt to if he gets to the final. he doesn't want to annoy mrjohnson so much he doesn't get a job. i think the party should be given two committed brexiteers, two people who campaigned for brexit. i don't think it is enough to have somebody who says they will respect the result who voted remain. it didn't work with theresa may. asjohnson is a big figure and brings a lot of colour to politics, but doesn't

bring much on detail, but michael gove is a detail man and has a track record. he has a flourish as well. both have a flourish. and johnson has some details. of course, but one has some details. of course, but one has more than the other. let's stick with the prospect, not the likelihood of a johnson against gove run—off. likelihood of a johnson against gove run-off. i think the term healing process is wildly optimistic, and i think the sauce that heather was talking about, saying it would be a kind of gove againstjohnson psychodrama, is probably about right. we've seen michael gove have a few takes borisjohnson in the debate, and don't discount the egos of gove and hunt, if either gets into the final two. they will both be thinking, i can be prime

minister, this is my chance, so from my perspective the psychodrama of gove and johnson will be interesting, but not a healing process. there is a risk. it was a bit alarming last week to hear the don't pull outjibe bit alarming last week to hear the don't pull out jibe towards bit alarming last week to hear the don't pull outjibe towards boris johnson. he said afterwards that it wasn't intended how it might have sounded... it was clear, i was at the launch, he was asked a direct question shouldn't you pull out, he said absolutely not, and he reminded people borisjohnson pulled out of the contest in 2016. whoever gets through this, they have to avoid this getting too personal we believe in competition, we can't have a curtailed race, it has to be a proper contest, but it has to bring the best out of both sides. hi does it really have to be a month? it's been set. you have to give members a chance to scrutinise. last time, we

made a mess because theresa may wasn't tested, there was a wind operation to get her there, and it never actually went to the membership. do you think she would have been rumbled ? membership. do you think she would have been rumbled?” membership. do you think she would have been rumbled? i think so. the first time she was tested with the general election. some people still believe it is michael gove's fault it happened in the race, boris johnson blowing up in the race last time, and that is something he is struggling to shake off. but the postal ballot, the votes will start landing on the 7th ofjuly. went to the postal ballots go out? apparently they get sent on the 4th ofjuly. do you expect a lot of members, the moment they get the postal ballot will vote immediately? we've seen the poll lead boris johnson has had in the run—offs has been consistent. both alternative candidates scored about 26%, he

scored about 60%. some will probably wait, because there are hustings in some parts of the country, but a lot will do it like a so they could take place after a lot of members have voted. click country would it be a legitimate concern that many conservative mps worried by a johnson gove psychodrama will choose mr hunt? they believe that neither can beat mrjohnson, so choose mr hunt, who is less likely to cause fireworks and embarrassment in any debate. if that's the case they should site let's forget it and have a coronation like theresa may but they're wrong to think this will be our psychodrama, they put this behind them when they worked in cabinet to think this will be our psychodrama, they put this behind them when they worked in cabinet together and as with they could put the party back together. it's a huge

disadvantage for boris johnson, the party back together. it's a huge disadvantage for borisjohnson, we have to see the hustings play out because his tactic has been whenever he opens his mouth he says something stupid so let's keep them quiet and he will have to open his mouth a bit next month. but he will be doing it in front of that small section of the population that most adores him. people underestimate conservative members, they are quite capable of discerning people's qualities and they will be looking for someone who can be prime minister at a serious time for our country and navigate our way out of the eu. let me continue on my scene, kevin schofield, the editor of politics home, a source close tojeremy hunt, boris and michael are great

candidates but we have seen their personal psychodrama before. it's time to offer the country someone the eu will actually talk to. that is part of what i was asking penny more than about, this idea that mr hunt seems to be putting about, the idea that the eu will not talk to mr johnson, which seems to be the type of thing you say in campaigns that would imply that brussels have a deep veto. brussels will deal with whoever the british system produces but it's interesting this psychodrama is coming back. this will play out in the next couple of hours, mr hun's people will say to mrjavad's people, come and abide with us, you will get your hustings but it won't be a bloodbath and you risk that with mr gove. if we get

into this contest, borisjohnson has been hiding in his shell so far, what happens if he stumbles during the election, members could get cold feet, the only alternative they see isjeremy feet, the only alternative they see is jeremy hunt who feet, the only alternative they see isjeremy hunt who they feet, the only alternative they see is jeremy hunt who they see as feet, the only alternative they see isjeremy hunt who they see as a remainer. we know the membership once a true brexiteer and we must have an alternative brexiteer otherwise you will give them a dreadful choice of somebody they may get cold feet over or a remainer. do you believe this line coming out of jeremy hunt's camp will have traction among mps who have yet to choose between mr gove and mr hunt? it's targeted, they choose this for a reason, if you were voting for sajid javid, not necessarily all the way through but someone who has picked up in recent rounds, you might be more interested in what you see as a placid choice. this

question about true brexiteer is, it willjust go back to a choice of who you back in the referendum were borisjohnson against you back in the referendum were boris johnson against two people who continue to stay in the cabinet after chequers. i think this psychodrama line is interesting but there will be some people who decide they want a more placid and to the campaign to make sure the tory party each unified. there are also people who want to see boris johnson have a ha rd who want to see boris johnson have a hard time and they are not his supporters and i think they will go to go. this is not a time to be placid, we have a major problem to sort out. and in his heart of hearts, does michael gove seriously believe he can beat borisjohnson? yes and i believe that too.

we will leave it there. you can see more on this on the bbc news channel. you can follow the results of tonight's final ballot in this conservative leadership contest i will be on this week tonight with michael portillo, alanjohnson, wes streeting, richard madeley and henning wehn from 11:35pm. jo will be here tomorrow. goodbye.