conservative party members had a say in who was their leader. i think with membership which unfortunately continues to dwindle somewhat, it's probably worth looking again at how we view that and how that's open to new people and to a wider populace. because it could be a problem but then we have the converse issue when you allow more people to come in it's very open to manipulation which some would argue happen with kirk —— corbyn. if you give it to members of parliament they are at least democratically elected and they are representing conservative voters in their constituency you could argue. yes. i think the way the issue is just the fact that the bulk of the population is looking and scratching their heads on this and to be presented with a prime minister that they had no influence over. ultimately if they feel they are let down or if they feel the whole thing isa down or if they feel the whole thing is a stitch up, they will have the opportunity to reflect that next time around in the ballot box. so

the whole process feels wildly out of filter with democratic expectations and the tories will be punished for that. they was an ink —— interesting poll saying 46% of conservative party members would not mind having nigel farage as their leader, they are pretty steadfastly ha rd leader, they are pretty steadfastly hard line on brexit aren't they? a lot of them very happy not to have a deal if that's what it comes due. brexit is the overwhelming issue amongst membership at the moment. which is why in am anyways if you had a brexiteer and a remainder going to the party, it won't be that much of the choice because the overwhelming the party will focus on a brexiteer which is why in many ways if you add michael akbar as the two lea d e rs ways if you add michael akbar as the two leaders of the brexit campaign that's possibly a bit more of an interesting contest. one thing i wish though is that there is an assumption among the members i think that brexit means boris, that he is the most credible, he is the one who feels in his guts and in his bone marrow and let ensure we are out on the 31st. michael gove in that tv

debate the other day said that boris johnson had joined him. that's the point now though is if borisjohnson as he has starts to hedge and waiver and offer caveats and nuances around the 31st of october and then some of those party members who yes, have a great deal of affection for him but i think that is trumped by the obsession with getting out on the sist obsession with getting out on the 31st of october and they will be very angry if they think that he might let them down in that regard. cani might let them down in that regard. can i ask you about —— theresa may who do you think she is going to be voting for? she has consistently said i'm not telling anybody who she is looking for. would it be who if you look at the way in which the initial days after theresa may was voted into office plate out, she is somebody who bears a grudge. so there was bull george osborne booted

out the first five minutes, michael gove given short shrift as well. and i think that that i would speculate might well play a part. there really has been bad blood between her and michael gove over the years. it would be amazing for her to then go and vote for him. borisjohnson, i don't think he is flavour of the month. so do you thinkjeremy hunt? may be. they had that massive fallen out. but they reconciled recently. going back to the two spot ballot paper, lots of people suggesting theresa may might have spot her ballot paper! not her style. we will find out very soon. whoever it is, it will be an interesting contest in the next few weeks. although jeremy has pledged his mast to brexit and

has pledged his mast to brexit and has emphasised that, if there is a sense that he was not an original brexiteer, that matters, especially with theresa may. you are not a true believer? exactly. from that perspective, if it is to exit tos, michael gove, who as we all know, has voted brexit for a long longer than boris johnson, that has voted brexit for a long longer than borisjohnson, that could be more interesting. one thing i would say though. for us, this is exciting and nerve—racking. and i hope it is for people in the country as well. they are on the edge of their seats! i hope that what they think what confronts the two men who will go through... there could be a tie. here they come, let's listening. ——

listen in. ladies and gentlemen, first of all, i would like to thank my colleague officers and the staff of the house of commons and our security officers and our own staff who have given us such tremendous support and service over the past two years. so come on behalf of the 1922 committee, charles walker, and i. 1922 committee, charles walker, and i, as returning officers for the election of leader of the conservative and unionist party can out declare the results of the fifth ballot. the total number of votes cast in today's ballot was 313. the total number of ballot papers rejected was one. the total number of votes given to each candidate we re of votes given to each candidate were as follows. michael gove, 75.

jeremy hunt, 77. borisjohnson, 160. jeremy hunt, 77. borisjohnson,160. we therefore declared thatjeremy huntand we therefore declared thatjeremy hunt and boris johnson we therefore declared thatjeremy hunt and borisjohnson are going forward to a vote of the qualifying membership of the conservative and unionist party. thank you very much. well, there you are! . announcing the result of that final ballot of mps, the fifth final ballot, those of the two names then that go forward to the wider conservative party membership, jeremy hunt, the foreign secretary, and boris johnson, borisjohnson foreign secretary, and boris johnson, boris johnson on 160. foreign secretary, and boris johnson, borisjohnson on 160. he has edged up his support with every round, and jeremy hunt, just two

votes a hea d round, and jeremy hunt, just two votes ahead of michael gove. if it had been michael gove, there were people worried that that would have been a revival of the so—called psychodrama between mr gove and mr johnson from three years ago, but that will not happen, it will be jeremy hunt who originally was a remainer, and borisjohnson, so prominent in the leave campaign. let's go back to my guests in the studio. what do you make of that? it will be quite a contest. it is a huge thing forjeremy hunt. are you surprised he made it?|j huge thing forjeremy hunt. are you surprised he made it? i have bragging rights around the table, i predicted that ten minutes ago! well, you weren't sure! it was very tight. a couple of days ago, i felt that he had stalled. he has shown that he had stalled. he has shown that he had stalled. he has shown that he has been solid, steely,

resilient, and this for him and borisjohnson is the biggest thing they will ever have encountered in their political life. the step up thatis their political life. the step up that is expected of them, a whole series of magnitudes, the pursuit, the scrutiny, the media circus, the harrying, the whole lot, and the expectation that they can come up with a vision for the country and a credible personality for leadership, it will be a massive step up. it has been so tight betweenjeremy hunt and michael gove, especially in the last couple of rounds. it really has. they have been neck and neck. the fact that jeremy has just edged it shows the breadth and quality of people in the party, and it will be really interesting. i think it is less likely that jeremy will win versus boris, but boris was was going to be the runaway favourite, but we have a huge contest coming up, we have 12 or 13 hustings to go

now, so there will be a massive amount of scrutiny on both people. in that television debate, the bbc one, jeremy hunt was viewed by quite a lot of observers of having done quite well, actually. but that have had any influence on the views of mps? there is a possibility, one should not discount the fact that there might be sour grapes and questions over who has voted and why over the next couple of hours. so we will wait and see, michael gove's tea m will wait and see, michael gove's team might point fingers. but let's assume 110w team might point fingers. but let's assume now we are going ahead in turning a page and there is a straight fight between the two of them. jeremy hunt's big advantage is that everybody has got an opinion about boris johnson and that everybody has got an opinion about borisjohnson and michael gove, but nobody has an opinion on jeremy hunt, nobody has made up their mind amongst the conservative members as well, extraordinary for someone members as well, extraordinary for someone who has been around for such a long time it still feels like an

unknown quantity. he has been in the cabinet continuously since 2010 will stop and yet his main recognition is very low. so he does have an opportunity to stab himself in this contest. we know the history of tory party leadership contests, sometimes the outside it as well. let's get reaction to that news breaking at westminster from our chief political correspondent. a huge gust went up it is people had that result, two votes in it, you could not make up. let's speak to iain duncan smith. he has got what he has wanted, hasn't he? i don't agree. i have worked withjeremy he? i don't agree. i have worked with jeremy hunt. he he? i don't agree. i have worked withjeremy hunt. he is a formidable politician, and i think it will be good and close race, but i hope it isa good and close race, but i hope it is a clean race, and i am pleased that boris has over 50% of the members of parliament, something that nobody believed he would do. he is now very much the man to say to the membership, mps want me, now you

have to decide, if you don't want me, why? he has got a lot of support. people think he will win. some people have said to me of the last year what they feel about boris johnson, and you could broadcast it, now they're back again. this is people decide who would deliver what they want. the biggest issue is on brexit, they believe boris will deliver brexit, but the most important thing is the sense of an upbeat nature, optimism for britain, we have been talking ourselves down for too long, we need to lift ourselves and boris will do that. let's come back together again. with a real sense that britain can make it through brexit, at the other side and do really well. it optimism enough enough? optimism and decisions. boris and jeremy hunt have said that. myjeremy noel view is that we are getting on the 31st

of october. —— general view. is that we are getting on the 31st of october. -- generalview. thank you very much indeed. i will bring in our next guest now, who is not feeling great at the moment because he was team gove! i am disappointed. i thought michael fought back superbly from a tricky start to the campaign. i superbly from a tricky start to the campaign. lam very superbly from a tricky start to the campaign. i am very proud to have been part of a campaign which was cross—party campaign with brexiteer is, remain, i made the case that he was a fantastic candidate to support. what is the race lost, in your view now? i think michael... this is the adopted son of an aberdeen fisherman, he brought something very different with the triumph of ideas, policy and delivery, but there are other very good candidates in the race, and i hope both candidates do well, they are both conservatives and we will support them both. there have been

rumours about team johnson referring to fight someone like jeremy rumours about team johnson referring to fight someone likejeremy hunt because he seemed to be a remainer ina because he seemed to be a remainer in a brexit argument, do you think there has been any skulduggery? there are no accusations and recriminations. i believe very clearly that there is an opportunity to hold both candidates, and it doesn't matter which candidate you have in front of you, to account and what their policies are and how it is they will deliver these matters, that's what matters to you and i and the wider country, it is the policies going forward that count. have you spoken to michael gove? not yet, but i will have a word with him now. have you thought about who you might support? now is the time to have a large beer, recover after a long campaign, which the two candidates who got through, the best of luck, and we will see what happens on the campaign trail. some of your colleagues were worried about boris johnson michael gove

of your colleagues were worried about borisjohnson michael gove run off because they thought it would be too divisive because of their history, they fell out last time round, did that come into the thoughts of some of your colleagues? i don't know. i actually believe that you will not meet a more polite manner michael gove, he is the epitome of courtesy, and they could have had a perfectly reasonable robust debate, just as saw on channel 4 and other events. we could have done that quite happily. channel 4 and other events. we could have done that quite happilylj channel 4 and other events. we could have done that quite happily. i will let you go and have that beer with michael gove. disappointment therefrom michael gove's team, losing by just two votes. therefrom michael gove's team, losing byjust two votes. you talked about the gasps there. how much surprise has there been? just because it's so close, there was one spoilt ballot paper as well. these teams who are working working every single vote, they will be disappointed. guy was hoping, they

managed to get over the line, but people will tell you they will vote one way but they do not tell you what they end up doing, so it is incredibly difficult to predict what will happen. there was unease amongst conservatives that because of what happened before, maurice johnson, michael gove, on the same team. —— boris. michael gove said he did not think he could support boris johnson, then stood himself. people we re johnson, then stood himself. people were talking about psychodrama. behind the scenes, that was the pitch, that was what team hunt was saying, we can't have these two against each other, it will not be good for the unity of the party, i am looking around to see who else is here. we will try and bring in alistair burt to speak to us. we are live on the bbc. very pleased. the atmosphere in the room... when we had the result was very good. it is very close. jeremy hunt is on the

ballot paper. i am perfectly convinced that given time to the hustings process they will see the jeremy hunt we have seen over the years, diligent, capable, exciting ideas for britain, and very sure thatis ideas for britain, and very sure that is a good experienced negotiator he can get the breaks at the country needs. a lot of people are worried. they say it is continuity may. he was a remainer, same as her, but the grassroots will not vote for him, surely because of that? hold on. he is on the ballot paperand we are that? hold on. he is on the ballot paper and we are going forward. the grassroots will decide over the next few weeks. i am perfectly confident that when they get the opportunity to see him as they have done with these major roles he has played with these major roles he has played with the nhs, foreign affairs, the work he did with the olympics, this is a man who has achieved things. i have no doubt that the grassroots already know and like jeremy hunt. they respect him, they know what he has done, they will be interested that he is the one who is challenging

borisjohnson and he is the one who is challenging boris johnson and will give him he is the one who is challenging borisjohnson and will give him not only a good contest but has the ability to win and heal and bring the country together. does he have the country together. does he have the optimism? the country together. does he have the optimism ? everybody the country together. does he have the optimism? everybody talks about boris johnson's the optimism? everybody talks about borisjohnson's charisma, he can be optimistic about brexit, canjeremy hunt do that? he would not have started the campaign withjeremy hunt and got this far if he was not optimistic. he is optimistic and has always said that. when he tried to tackle patient safety in the nhs, when he went to stockholm to get the parties together the peace co nfe re nce parties together the peace conference in relation to yemen, jeremy is always optimistic. he started his own business and company when he could have done other things. that needs a degree of optimism which he recognises, and thatis optimism which he recognises, and that is why he wants to assist those who wants to be entrepreneurs, he wants to see business develop in the country. jeremy is a natural

optimist, andl country. jeremy is a natural optimist, and i think that spirit will carry him through. and give the country in the conservative party a good feel about somebody who could ta ke good feel about somebody who could take us forward. do you think grassroots members do have an open mind? there has been lots of polling on them and they seem to be in favour borisjohnson, on them and they seem to be in favour boris johnson, will on them and they seem to be in favour borisjohnson, will they come to this with an open mind? the conservative party has had a tradition of looking at leadership and being very open about it. when david davis and david cameron were involved, the conventional view would have been, david davis is ahead, he has established, then there was the challenge from david cameron to present things in a different way. i think conservative party members who are public spirited, that is why they belong to a political party, they recognise they are notjust a political party, they recognise they are not just voting for themselves, they have a responsibility to vote for people who do not have a vote this time. there will be a general election in due course. they will choose people who do not have a political party, people who have another political

party, for their children, grandchildren, parents. they will ta ke grandchildren, parents. they will take all that into account and look at both of these candidates freshen decide who is best for britain. i do not think they will be bound by what people are said in pozo in the past. when you look at jeremy that way, it is very exciting for britain and the conservative party, and we know we are carrying out a duty for others. and i think the conservative party will take that really seriously and choose a series individual for a greatjob. choose a series individual for a great job. whoever wins this is a massive challenge of bringing the party back together, there has not been much unity around here and your party for the last two or three yea rs. party for the last two or three years. how will they do that? we have got a remarkable ability to come together when the chips are down. as indicated a moment ago, if you press most of us here, we recognise that whatever may be the issues in the party, this is not a party thing, pure and simple, this is about the country. the country has made a momentous decision in

relation to brexit, it is divided 50-50 relation to brexit, it is divided 50—50 however you cut it. somehow, you have got to bring things together. we recognise we have a responsibility for the country as a whole. who is best to do that? i think that someone with the personality of jeremy hunt, think that someone with the personality ofjeremy hunt, someone with the ability to bring people together, someone who starts from a position not of being seen as a divisive character, i think that is probably the best way of going into it. let's see how it develops over the next four weeks. we will know a lot more about ourselves as a party, a bit more about the country, and more about jeremy hunt and a bit more about the country, and more aboutjeremy hunt and boris johnson in the next few weeks, and i am very confident that the jeremy hunti am very confident that the jeremy hunt i know will be preferred by our colleagues. if you worked for both of them in the foreign office, you are ina of them in the foreign office, you are in a unique position, how do they compare? the strengths and weaknesses on both sides. i am not being mealy—mouthed about it. i have got no personal animosity against

boris. i have worked with them both. i like jeremy. boris. i have worked with them both. ilikejeremy. i boris. i have worked with them both. i like jeremy. i have worked with jeremy into department so i saw his work in two different places. boris johnson did not do me any harm in the foreign office. i worked with him on difficult middle east issues, i worked on those with jeremy as well, i like and respectjeremy, i chose him having worked with a numberof chose him having worked with a number of different ministers, and i'm very confident about the choice i have made, so no detriment to any other candidate, i don't do that sort of thing, but i have chosen jeremy for reasons which people around him would appreciate and i hope the country would appreciate. we are putting forward a good person with confidence. at the end of the day, that matters. thank you very much indeed for your reaction. a very happy team there. jeremy hunt going through to challenge boris johnson. we have got some reaction coming in from the various

contenders. let's bring you boris johnson... michael gove, actually. michael gove is saying, i am naturally disappointed but so proud of the campaign we ran, huge thanks to my brilliant campaign team, it has been an honour to set out a vision for the future of our great country. many congratulations to boris and jeremy! that is from michael gove, his first reaction, saying he is naturally disappointed, and boris johnson, saying he is naturally disappointed, and borisjohnson, who has triumphed there with 160 votes, pretty much double what the other two contenders got, has also been tweeting with his reaction, and he says, iam got, has also been tweeting with his reaction, and he says, i am deeply honoured to have secured more than 50% of the vote in the final ballot. thank you to everyone for your support. i look forward to getting out across the uk and to set up my plan to deliver brexit, unite our country, and create a brighter

future for all of us. that is boris johnson, he got 160 votes, jeremy hunt 77, michael gove just knocked out, he got two votes fewer than jeremy hunt. let's go back to my guests in the studio. interesting listening there to alistair burt, who worked with them both in the foreign office, describing jeremy hunt is diligent, capable, and a very different sort of personality from borisjohnson very different sort of personality from boris johnson in very different sort of personality from borisjohnson in terms of charisma and rhetoric and that kinda thing, will that make a difference this campaign? alistair burt was very measured, quite low—key. inside, he will be bubbling with excitement. he was clearly trying to keep the temperature down. his own words have been used against boris johnson, he has been caustic and

critical of borisjohnson johnson, he has been caustic and critical of boris johnson in johnson, he has been caustic and critical of borisjohnson in some of the language he used in the past. he was trying to do everything he could to avoid getting into that sort of slanging match. it was an admirable effort from alistair burt, i must say. speaking of people who have been caustic about boris johnson say. speaking of people who have been caustic about borisjohnson in the past, a lot of the conventional wisdom is that he was not liked by a lot of tory mps, and yet they voted for him all the way through this in very large numbers. there have been two parts of this. the first is a sense of boris's term, and the conservatives are in a tricky spot, then you call for boris because it isa then you call for boris because it is a last chance saloon. is there a herd mentality when they decide he is the man? the second part is, his campaign had been extremely effective at using the grassroots to put pressure on their mps to then vote for boris. there have been a numberof mps who vote for boris. there have been a number of mps who have received

letters from associations, calling on them to back boris. they felt the pressure as well. to an extent that is legitimate. they should be reflecting some of their views. the combination of those two things has been very powerful for boris. reaction from jeremy hunt as well. we can see a tweet from him in the last few seconds. jeremy hunt says, iam the last few seconds. jeremy hunt says, i am the underdog! but in politics, surprises happen as they did today. ido surprises happen as they did today. i do not doubt the responsibility on my shoulders to show my party how we deliver brexit and not an election, but also a turbo—charged economy and a country that walks tall in the world. jeremy hunt describing himself as the underdog. that is exactly what he is. don't brits love an underdog! michael gove would have equally been the underdog. an underdog! michael gove would have equally been the underdogm an underdog! michael gove would have equally been the underdog. it is a statement of fact. there are some endorsements up for grabs. michael gove did not say who he would vote

for, and there are few people who have fallen out of the race. but those two teams will focus on the next stage, but first things first, they like to get out of the blocks really strongly with a big backer in their pocket. laura, jeremy hunt says surprises happen, can you see any surprises happening now? is there any chance that the crown on boris johnson's there any chance that the crown on borisjohnson's had there any chance that the crown on boris johnson's had much there any chance that the crown on borisjohnson's had much sleep at this late stage? nothing in politics is inevitable, but i would be surprised. thank you so much for being with us. let's go back to our chief political correspondent. more reaction in the central lobby of the houses of parliament. everyone looking ahead to the beginning of another round of this contest, boris johnson againstjeremy hunt. the hustings which will take place in front of the conservative party members begin on saturday, and they will be televised, so a lot of

scrutiny over the next few weeks of both candidates. let's speak to robert buckland who has been supporting boris johnson. robert buckland who has been supporting borisjohnson. you did not want to happen up against michael gove, did you? the debate would have been lively if it had been michael. now members will have a chance to ask questions to scrutinise and to play their part in a very important selection process which i hope will be dealt with in a very mature, calm and sensible way as befits a process that is selecting the next prime minister. all the surveys and polls of the tory party members say this is an absolute shoe in for borisjohnson. is there any chance of a surprise? for they come to this with an open mind? anybody who takes our members for granted is very unwise, and boris will not be doing that, he will work very hard with his team to persuade members of his cases fee goes round the country. this is the

business entered the debate. it will be pretty gruelling. it is the sort of test he will welcome because at the end of it all he will be even more ready as i hope to take office with a strong team around him to lead us in the years ahead. with a strong team around him to lead us in the years aheadlj with a strong team around him to lead us in the years ahead. i was surprised that picking up the evening standard edited by one george osborne who is throwing his weight behind boris johnson, george osborne who is throwing his weight behind borisjohnson, he said, they were talking about the fa ct said, they were talking about the fact that when looking at the candidate most likely to bring back a revived brexit deal or maybe even the idea of a second referendum, a lot of people expect a lot of different things from boris johnson. the borisjohnson i know is a moderate, open minded one nation conservative. he took a different path from me on brexit, but the ss of borisjohnson says path from me on brexit, but the ss of boris johnson says unifi. path from me on brexit, but the ss of borisjohnson says unifi. —— essence. he wants to engage with the public. he wants to reach out from the tied walls of westminster and

make a direct case. that is what we need now. and that is why i am backing him. brexit will be tricky, he is talking about living with or without a deal on the 31st of 0ctober, you don't want to leave without a deal! i don't want chaos, neither does he, which is why he will work with his team to ensure that that does not happen. that is his policy. he is talking robustly, as he should, i have no problem with that, but as i have said, he is the best personnel to unite us and take the fight to jeremy corbyn and labour, to make the case that there isa labour, to make the case that there is a clear divide in our politics, a choice to be made, a choice between a one nation united tory party or what i worry about, the extreme nature of what we are facing from the labour party, which is a radical change from the days of tony blair and gordon brown. i will cruelly move you out of the way we bring someone else in. mel stride this

with me now. very disappointed. i backed michael gove. particularly as it was so close, but sometimes that's the way life is. but i pay tribute to michael. he fought a very upfront, clear, principled campaign, andl upfront, clear, principled campaign, and i think he did extremely well, particularly as he had a few bumps on the road along the way, from what i know of michael, back at the test tomorrow morning, he has a very importantjob tomorrow morning, he has a very important job in cabinet tomorrow morning, he has a very importantjob in cabinet which he is very passionate about and he will carry on working for the party in the country, as yours has done.|j have spoken to people from your team earlier. i felt that they felt optimistic. there has been talk of borisjohnson optimistic. there has been talk of boris johnson people optimistic. there has been talk of borisjohnson people voting for jeremy hunt in order to keep michael gove of the last two, has not been going on? i don't think that could happen

because i think if