tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News July 3, 2019 10:00am-11:01am BST
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hello it's wednesday, it's10:ooam, i'm riz lateef. a bbc investigation finds children using the popular video—sharing app tik tok are feeling exploited into sending money to their favourite stars in exchange for promises or attention. yo, if you drop another drama queen yeah, i'll speak to you on instagram for a week straight. a drama queen, promotion and my number to follow everything. thanks so much for the drama queen. one more and you get my number, 0k? "drama queens" are digital gifts which cost nearly £50 each — and some children end up spending hundreds of pounds. the dad of a 26 year—old british woman, killed fighting against is in syria has been to the country to meet the people she fought alongside.
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dirk campbell is here. he says the grief and pride, he feels about his daughter will never go away. commentator: steph houghton. .. saved! and england are out of the women's world cup — but what's the legacy of theircampaign? this park are full of people and everybody is ready for it and yay, lionesses we absolutely love you. this time battersea park, next time hyde park. yes, yes. we'll talk to these players from around the country about where the game goes now. hello, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11.00 this morning. thanks forjoining us. the video—sharing app tiktok was only launched in 2017 but by the following year, it was already the fourth most downloaded app. do your kids use it?
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and do they take part in so—called "gift—baiting" where fans send money to their favourite video—makers in the hope of a mention, or even getting their phone number? do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about. use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy for us to contact you and maybe want to take part in the programme, please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. first annita mcveigh has the news for us. good morning. police say the baby of a woman who was fatally stabbed in south london when she was eight months pregnant has died. kelly mary fauvrelle, who was 26, was killed at her home in thornton heath on saturday. paramedics couldn't save her but delivered her baby son. cctv footage released by police shows a man walking towards her home at around 3:15am in the morning and running back around ten minutes later. police say he must
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be traced urgently. and we'll be live with our correspondent in thornton heath, with the latest on the police investigation later this hour. the video sharing app tiktok has promised to make changes to its policies after a bbc investigation found children felt exploited into sending tiktok celebrities money. it's called ‘gift—baiting' and some fans are sending hundreds of pounds in exchange for promises or attention from their favourite stars. the government has been criticised for "unfairly raising families' hopes" over access to medicinal cannabis, despite approving it's use last year. a report by the health and social care committee found the drug isn't readily available despite being given the green light for prescription. the department of health says it will consider the report, and any further action it needs to take to improve the situation. 0besity now causes more cases of four common cancers than tobacco, according to a charity. cancer research uk says that bowel, kidney, ovarian and liver cancers are more likely to have been caused by being overweight than by smoking.
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but the charity's new billboard campaign highlighting the link has been accused of "fat—shaming" by social media users. borisjohnson has promised to review so called "sin taxes" on foods high in salt, fat and sugar to see if they unfairly penalise the lowest earners — if he becomes prime minister. the tory leadership contender wants to examine whether the levies are effective in helping people lead healthier lifestyles. 0pponentjeremy hunt said he would rather target manufacturers when it comes to less healthy products. england are out of the women's world cup, beaten 2—1 by the usa. their manager phil neville says england's players left "their hearts and souls on the pitch". the lionesses lost their third successive semifinal at a major football tournament. hundreds of thousands of people in south america witnessed a rare sight last night — a total eclipse of the sun. the moon's great shadow, or ‘umbra', plunged parts of chile into darkness for a few seconds, before passing over the andes and across to argentina.
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a solar eclipse occurs when the moon passes between the earth and the sun, blocking its light. south america is also expected to see the world's next total solar eclipse — which will take place on the 14th of december next year. and that is a summary of the main stories, back to you, riz. it's bigger than snapchat, twitter and linkedin. but if you're not a teenager, you may never have heard of tiktok. it's the fastest growing social media app in the world but has now promised to make changes to its policies after a bbc investigation found young people and children feeling exploited into sending popular creators money. the so called ‘gift—baiting' is happening during live broadcasts and some fans are sending hundreds of pounds in digital gifts in exchange for promises or attention from their favourite stars. in a moment we'll talk to clive efford, a labour mp who's part of a committee investigating social media platforms like tiktok, and liz fraser, a parenting
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author and broadcaster. but first, here's joe tidy. tiktok is huge. it's the fastest growing social media app in the world and it's easy to see why. the platform has probably one of the most creative communities. but there's another side to the app that's less well known and it's less creative and less fun. i love tea. this is live streaming where tiktokers with a thousand followers or more can broadcast directly to their fans and where many of them are asking for gifts with bizarre names. thank you for another concert, i'm very rich! the pandas. another concert! the smaller gifts only cost between 5p and a pound. it's the bigger ones the creators really want, worth £5 or ten. and then there's the big one. drama queen! 0hhh, the drama queen!
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thank you for the drama queen! a drama queen is worth £49. when i first watched one of these tiktok live streams i saw a little girl and she gave three drama queens back to back to someone who kept asking for them. thank you so much, michaela, for the two drama queens. and she's going to get her name in my bio and she's going to get six reactions, she'll get, like, 18 reactions. michaela with the third drama queen! best part of 150 quid in about a minute. 150 quid seems a lot, but as i started looking into this and getting into the community a bit more, i noticed people were giving away way more than that. i think in the end it was about 400 by the time it was all said and done. this is stephanie. she's a mum from toronto in canada and her daughter is 11. and she was pretty shocked to find out that she'd spent $400 on gifting tiktokers. and then i said, "so you don't actually get anything for it?" and she said no. adults should know better. and even other teenagers that should know better that you don't ask essentially children for money.
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the big question of course is where is this money going? and i spoke to tiktok, i emailed them a few times and they didn't give me much to go on, really. they didn't tell me where the split was. theyjust gave me a generic statement and a link to their website. i've since found out from speaking to tiktokers and some agents as well that the split is 50% for tiktok and 50% for the creators. a lot of the fans that i've spoken to who have given money over to these tiktokers actually say they regret it. they're criticising the persuasive techniques, the constant repetition of, "send me this and i'll give you that." yo, if you drop me another drama queen, i'll speak to you on instagram for a week straight. a drama queen, i'll do that promotion, my number from follow everything. thank you so much for the drama queen. if you send one more, you get my number, 0k? i decided i wanted to know what it was like to gift. so i gave this guy nathan a drama queen. thank you so much for the drama queen. oh, my gosh. i just followed you. i'm going back to my room right now so that way,
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i'll be able to react to you. hey, hey, hey, hey! i look so out there right now. it didn't last very long. my 15 seconds of fame, or whatever it was. i'll be honest, though, it felt good. i quite enjoyed the idea of people seeing the videos that i've made, and he mentioned me, and he's got a big audience and that felt good. what was really interesting is how quickly that feeling went. despite saying that he'd get his whole audience to follow me, i only actually gained four followers. and i never got the video collaboration he promises his fans who give him drama queens. he didn't respond to our messages for this report and i'm not the only unhappy customer. so you sent two drama queens. that's a lot of money, isn't it? i spoke to a 12—year—old girl from the north west of england and we did a really long interview. she's since decided she doesn't want us to show the interview, which is fine, but she gave £100 to one of her favorite tiktokers who said that he would give her his mobile number but she's only had a couple of messages replied to and he's never answered her phone calls. # you like me a little bit?
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# no, i don't even like you a little bit! but now she really regrets it and she feels like she was pressured into it. i tried to get in touch with sebastian about this but he hasn't replied to our messages. but we have been to speak to two brothers who are really famous. i'm going to count to ten and you can send drama queens for a follow or a duet. one, two, three... they've got well over 2.5 million followers. they just want to connect with us so we just do our best. we dance for them. we were, like, makingjokes. they go live once a day and say they can earn as much as £400 each time. on our lives, most of our gifters are, like, 30 to 45 i would say. a lot of our gifters are 30—year—old women. so how do you feel that sometimes the people that are giving you gifts are very young? well, we don't like it when our gifters are young.
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so basically... we ask them if their parents know about it. but we can't stop them. we can't stop them. we are going on live not only for the money, we are going on the live to get more audience. thank you, moptop, for another. i'm very rich and fluffy llama... it's a view shared by another hugely popular tiktoker. rhea from south wales says she can earn as much as £1,000 during one live stream. i think it's definitely quite young, my audience. i think it's between probably, about ten to 14. would you like to see tiktok put in some more stringent rules on age limits? i think that would probably be beneficial, yeah, because it would give us peace of mind as creators as well. and it would make you feel ethical. because taking money from children is not a good way to earn a living, really. you know? two more, i'm very rich, fluffy llama, i will film a duet with you now. as well as fans buying gifts
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for creators, there's another group making money from tiktok users. after gifting as part of our research, i was approached repeatedly by an anonymous account. and that was when i got really strange. give me a drama queen and i'll give you 500 likes, 0k? this is the livestream that he's started and he had my profile up and he knew i was watching it, of course, and he started going through my videos. and then he would say, give me a drama queen and i'll give you 500 likes. and i kept asking why, and he just kept saying over and over again. the user says he's from india. and part of a team who use tiktok to supplement their income. the chinese company behind tiktok says it's sorry to hear about some of the experiences we documented. a spokesperson said they're making changes in light of our investigation and further strengthening the platform's policies and features. livestream tipping isn't new and it's far more accepted in china and the east. in the west, it's become more common, particularly in gaming communities. but as tiktok continues to grow,
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the business model is being questioned and tested at a scale not seen before. clive efford is a labour mp on the digital, culture, media and sport select committee, which yesterday heard how the uk information commissioner is investigating tiktok over whether it is breaching data protection laws. thank you very much for coming in. how concerned should we be by what we saw there? we should be very concerned because what goes on there a tt ra cts concerned because what goes on there attracts very young people. the idea this is people over the age of 30 going on this site is ridiculous. therefore there is bound to be some impressionable and young impressionable, vulnerable people who are going on that side who are open to being exploited and therefore, this is an example of
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where we need to get ahead of some of these tech developers on the social media platforms that are there just to monetise children. do you think the legislation as it stands in the uk can really regulate again something like this? you couldn't say we could ever be in a position where we can control everything. but we need the powers ofan everything. but we need the powers of an enforcement agency that certainly has a hard stick to beat these individuals with. most of all, they can get access to the data and find out what is being collected these tech developers and what data they have on people and how they are using it, particularly young, vulnerable people. on that note, tiktok say they are cooperating. we had one in influencer saying they would like to see stricter age limits, is that realistic? it is
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difficult because the person is almost an ominous and they will be behind a screen. —— anonymous. they are not always over age because this app says it has a minimum age of 13. there is a lot of fun and creativity from young people that goes on this app. but at the same time, when you are talking about children who might be getting involved in gambling on some sites, when they are exposed to harm, when they are parting with money there has to be a tough form of verification. you mention children and many of the video makers in that film, including the brothers say they behave responsibly and ask the children whether they have their parents‘ commission and is there more of an onus on parents to control and check what their children are spending their money on? absolutely, parents are part of it but this particular app has no
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pa rental controls it but this particular app has no parental controls on it, which is extraordinary when you consider everything that has gone on on the internet, the predators who are looking to exploit vulnerable children, that you would allow, or you would even think it was a cce pta ble you would even think it was acceptable to set up an app targeted at children, that has no parental controls. that is extraordinary. some of the gifts we heard are up to £50, some very little and not high—value, as little five p. does it really require regulation? high—value, as little five p. does it really require regulation7m high—value, as little five p. does it really require regulation? if it stays at that level, that is fine, but what we have heard, you are a lwa ys but what we have heard, you are always trying to regulate for those people who are vulnerable. we have heard is some vulnerable individuals, now feel they have been duped into parting with money they shouldn't have parted with two associate with these influences on this platform and clearly, that sort
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of inducement when you are putting emotional pressure on young people, we have to be concerned about what is going on. interesting that we heard the reporter saying, he knows what he was doing and actually it felt good. you can see the challenge, not just for felt good. you can see the challenge, notjust for regulators but the challenge for parents? exactly, that there is the attraction. particularly for young people who feel they have been recognised because one of these influences has connected with them. it is there, the dangers lie with this site and what we need is to be sure we can protect the fun and creativity, but at the same time make it safe and that is a difficult and grey area. realistically, does that just sound like and grey area. realistically, does thatjust sound like platitudes because technology moves much faster than regulation ever will? absolutely but it is the data that
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is key and access to what data these people hold is absolutely key. it is the data that monetise people, it is personal data and how they collect it, if you are talking about virtual reality, they can read how your eyes move when you look at particular objects when playing again. how they collect the data are new, how they store it and how they use it is absolutely essential for the people, the guardians, the advertising standards, the information commissioner all have power to go in and investigate. when the company saysin and investigate. when the company says in this situation, the parent company say they acknowledge concerns of the parents and they apologise and say they are making changes, that is not enough for you? no it is not, i don't think self—regulation is going to cut it here and the government has to act. we will leave it there for now, thank you very much indeed.
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do get in touch if you have concerns over tiktok. still to come on the programme: i'll be speaking to the father of anna campbell, the first british woman to die fighting for kurdish forces against islamic state in syria. he's been back to the country to talk to the people she lived with and fought alongside. and why do some children end up with lives dominated by gangs and violence and prison and loss? we hear the deeply personal stories of two people growing up in london and how they became entangled in gang life. it was heartbreak last night for the lionesses. they crashed out of the women's football world cup losing 2—1 to the usa — but not without giving the the world's top—ranked team a serious challenge. england manager phil neville says
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his side gave a great performance. the players gave me everything. we said before the game we wanted to leave our hearts and souls on the pitch and they did, they gave everything. we have gone toe to toe with the greatest team in the world, they showed experience taking the ball into the corner and we went down to ten men. we probablyjust ran out of steam. in a moment we'll be talking to members of women's university football teams about this iconic tournament and what it means for the game. but first our reporter michael cowan was in london last night to watch the match with the parliamentary women's football team. we're here to watch the mighty lionesses. england versus the usa. and we're going to watch with the parliamentary women's football team for the night, to talk politics and penalties. go on, england! can you keep politics off the pitch? yeah. yes. yes, definitely.
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so there are labour and tories, people that are not aligned. there's all different kinds of people who play who are involved in politics and the whole point of it is actually that we all work in the same sort of space and it's about coming together and just doing something else. women's football has captured people in a way that men's footballjust doesn't. you know, men chuck themselves around the pitch with wild dramatics a lot of the time, they're paid phenomenal amounts of money that nobody, you know, an average person can't relate to. a lot of the scotland and england women's team are going out and working full time jobs. they're going to training in the morning, training at night, playing at the weekends. they're everybody, you know, and everybody can engage with that and get behind it. and i think people that have... my girlfriend had never got involved with football before, never been interested. she watched the women's, scotland women's team, we went out to nice for the england scotland game and it's captured people's imagination. ijust think people
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are ready for it now. i think we've seen the growth of women's football little by little over the years and now we've reached a tipping point. i mean, this park is full of people, and everybody is ready for it. and, yay, lionesses! we absolutely love you. this time battersea park, next time hyde park. yes! cool! that is a manifesto, if ever i heard it. well we can speak now to erin pruett, club chairman of loughborough women's football team. and flo hansford and beth lowe from goldsmith univeristy‘s women's team. welcome to you all. as i said, the day after the night before, how are you feeling? heartbroken. completely heartbroken. we put up a fight, it was a great match. but very sad not to get to the final. do you take any heart from the fact they were beaten
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by the best team in the world, if there is a way to go out of the world cup, surely that is it? definitely, in the group stages there was a lot of talk about the disparities in women's football. but la st disparities in women's football. but last night's game we came so close to being top of the world so it shows we are bridging the gap. what about you guys? 10096. i think there will be a lot more hype next time, more people were going to the pub to watch it on tv. next time they may go and watch it. more live screens in parks in london around cities in the uk, it is going to grow from now oi'i. the uk, it is going to grow from now on. does it feel like a watershed moment, notjust in the sport but culturally when it comes to women's football? i think so, culturally when it comes to women's football? ithink so, it culturally when it comes to women's football? i think so, it really has changed. everyone is talking about it. it is being spoken about with respect. it has massively changed culturally. how have things changed
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from when you first started playing football to what you saw last night? massively. when i first started about 13 years ago it was a case of just try and make it in the local boy's team. now we are seeing girls and boys all over the world supporting the lionesses and we are seeing it at every level, people are wanting to invest in women's foot ball wanting to invest in women's football and they really believe in it. of course, it must have inspired other young girls and boys to take up other young girls and boys to take up the sport? i went nice. and the one thing we saw was different types of families, older men, olderwomen and everyone was hugging each other and everyone was hugging each other and having a good time. do you think it has changed the face of a football fan? yes, definitely. what is different about it is i would
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say, like you said about it being a more enjoyable environment when you go to women's football games. when you watch the lionesses, the crowd is so positive and it is an enjoyable experience for all families and all demographics of people. can i put this to you, we have some e—mails coming in and text m essa 9 es have some e—mails coming in and text messages and gary says, if the lionesses had one, there would be no argument about getting paid the same as male players because it would have proved they are just as skilled? i think equal pay, obviously men's football does bring in more revenue, but i think the important thing in terms of payment and quality is, compares to the last world cup and try to better ourselves for the next cup. it might not be about getting equal pay to the men, but time is in it by five, the men, but time is in it by five, the payment we got last year and then going on from that the
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following year. another one here, of course mentioning the penalty. that came after the disallowed goal. robert sane, why don't we stop kidding ourselves, why haven't we got anyone who can score a penalty? 0uch? got anyone who can score a penalty? ouch? in the grand scheme of things, the lionesses can score more penalties than the men. it was a split—second decision, penalties are difficult in a game and you never know where it is going to go. the game last night and in fact the whole women's world cup, this has been so much more hasn't it than what happened on the pitch? definitely. this world cup, everybody brought into the whole ethos of the lionesses and everybody knows their stories. a lot of that came from the announcements they did, they had different celebrities announcing he was in the squad. it was a massively larger audience reached and that is key to getting a wider audience and captivating
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everyone. can i ask you, what is the most challenging part of playing women's football, how often do you play a week for your university team? normally about three times a week we play. we are in two leagues, a london leak and a college league. what is the most challenging part? football in general? i don't know, it isa football in general? i don't know, it is a physical game. if you have a ha rd it is a physical game. if you have a hard game, you get knocked about a bit and you wake up next morning feeling sore, just like men's football. we train about three times a week and we have two games a week. 0ur a week and we have two games a week. our biggest struggle has been funding and this year we have been fortunate enough, we can offer a
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full—time head coach role. it has come this year because people are starting to want to invest in women's football and that has been the hardest part, getting that investment. it has all come because it is the world cup year. do you think it will continue? definitely, for us personally, it should do. it is about making the small steps at individual levels and then looking ata individual levels and then looking at a wider programme and thinking, we are making pique audiences on tv, universities are getting funding and it is all going upwards. let's end ona it is all going upwards. let's end on a much more positive note, phil neville was sort of saying, they left their hearts and souls on the pitch. but actually, they touched the hearts of a nation, is that how it felt? 10096. everyone who watched the lionesses game or tuned in on
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the lionesses game or tuned in on the radio or spoken about it, it was a lot of passion and pride and it was just so lovely to watch women on the big screen and then having the big screen on bbc one and bbc two as well. brilliant. brilliant. where does the game go from here? we have the euro is coming up and then looking forward to the next world cup as well. like i said earlier, i was excited, not just seeing england, but the whole world and closing the gaps on how each country performed. the group games were just as exciting, just as the semi have been. thank you all, we wish you all well with your sporting endeavours. thank you forjoining us. lots of you getting in touch on e—mail about tiktok. claudia says, never mind where is the money going, where is it coming from? where is a 12—year—old getting hundreds of
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pounds, surely parents check their accou nts pounds, surely parents check their accounts regularly? someone on twitter says how our kids being conned, where do they get the money from? surely it is a parental responsibility to monitor them and teach them not to be so gullible? how in the world are kids paying for this? what are they doing with so much money? parents should be doing theirjob. callu m theirjob. callum on twitter, no idea what this tiktok is, but this is surely the pa rents‘ tiktok is, but this is surely the parents‘ responsibility. it is like those parents who complain when the kids have run up a bill on the xbox on any gain. keep your e—mails coming. two years ago, 26—year—old anna campbell left her home and her comfortable life in sussex and headed to northern syria to fight against islamic state. less than a year later, she was dead — becoming the first british woman to die fighting for the kurdish forces in northern syria. now her father dirk campbell has
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been to syria to talk to the people she lived with and fought alongside. his journey back there is featured in a bbc documentary this evening — anna: the woman who went to fight isis. in a moment we'll talk to dirk campbell but first here's a clip from the documentary. v0|ceover: when anna arrived in rojava, she was placed in a ypj commune to learn kurdish and begin hertraining. whilst there, she was filmed by a documentary maker. this is the first time this footage has been seen. i suppose... yeah, maybe i'll say a bit about why i decided to come here. i never thought that i could be someone who could participate in a revolution here. i want to know that it's real. as anarchists, were always told, "oh, you're just idealists," "that could never happen, that could never work." i feel like this is, this is really important and amazing and i'm going to learn a lot and i don't regret it for a second.
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and anna's father is here now. listening to that, she certainly sounded single—minded. tell our audience what kind of woman anna was. she was an exceptional person, very driven, very moral, for her, everything was aboutjustice or injustice, protecting the weak and vulnerable, since she was very small, and she was very bookish as a person, very literary. she was quite a romantic. she loved the idea of trying to help create a better world, and she put herself into that football tea m world, and she put herself into that football team that played so well last night, they were talking about leaving their heart and soul on the pitch. anna left her heart and soul
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in herfight pitch. anna left her heart and soul in her fight for justice. pitch. anna left her heart and soul in her fight forjustice. you came across her diary, you had not seen the last time that you went to syria, tell us about that. yes, all the fighters, particularly the foreign fighters, in... the fighters, particularly the foreignfighters, in... do the fighters, particularly the foreign fighters, in... do we know what rojava means? it is the federation of northern cantons, coming together to an autonomous government, after the syrian rebellion, it is kurdish led. so, all the fight against islamic state, daesh, as i prefer to call them, they don't like being called daesh soi they don't like being called daesh so i call them that! that was led by the forces in rojava, the people's protection units. so, the diary isa people's protection units. so, the diary is a day—to—day account of her thoughts and feelings and that
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activities, from about a month after she arrived, two very shortly before she arrived, two very shortly before she died. what did you discover about her life, and what she was thinking, you perhaps did not know? i know that you are clutching the diary there. i have it here. well, there are some interesting insights into her process psychologically. a lot of it, we would regard as... it is not anne frank, because she was not holed up in an attic, about to be carted off by the gestapo, but it is interesting in the sense that she was living a reality, which none of us was living a reality, which none of us really knew about. the fighters, when they are trained, they do not have any possessions, just the kalashnikov and a change of clothes. they are discouraged from having
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relationships, or other commitments, other than their commitment to fighting unit. i found other than their commitment to fighting unit. ifound out that she trained to hit a target and she was very good at it, and i found trained to hit a target and she was very good at it, and ifound out trained to hit a target and she was very good at it, and i found out her frustrations, her joys, very good at it, and i found out her frustrations, herjoys, the particular thing that interested me was when she is talking about death, and her approach to death. and the possibility that she might die. what sort of things was she saying? she was saying, when she thought about it, a physical heaviness came over her, that she would never again see the fields and woods of her youth, the fields and woods of her youth, the beech trees of her childhood. but that she hoped she would be like the committed fighters, for whom fear of death is just one more material attachment. they are very anti—materialistic, very
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anti—capitalist. and, she wanted to reach that state where it did not matter to her. would we be able to see a little bit of the diary? if thatis see a little bit of the diary? if that is ok. i won't be able to find that is ok. i won't be able to find that particular bit, but this is an example... she pasted... intricate, isn't it. she has not wasted one little bit of paper. no, and little drawings and things which she sticks in. tickets and receipts and things. that is very intimate, thank you. after reading it, do you now feel that there was probably nothing you could do to stop her going and fighting? well, i knew that before. it was in her nature to be intrepid, resolute, foolhardy, perhaps, very brave, but very determined. she
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would not take no for an answer. and we all tried in various ways to tell her about our worries, and the danger. do you feel you could have done more? one always has that guilt, i should done more? one always has that guilt, ishould have done more? one always has that guilt, i should have done more to restrain her, but what could i do, i could not take her passport, could not chain her to the railings. she was a grown woman, it was her choice. ijust was a grown woman, it was her choice. i just told was a grown woman, it was her choice. ijust told her, that i was afraid. when you were in syria we know that you spoke with a senior commander with the kurdish forces, who refers to her by her kurdish name, helen... helin qerecox, actually, that is how it is pronounced. it means birds nest.
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that she would do that, yes. it was a powerful moment when i realised that they had tried to stop her going but she had insisted and she had eventually worn them down. on that note, that she insisted on going, you were concerned about a law passed earlier this year, anyone going to a designated zone, as the home office calls it, faces a possible ten year sentence unless they have a reasonable excuse to be there. you are concerned about that. its a bad law, it is indiscriminate. if you go to a a designated area, this is the counterterrorism and border security act, bought in by sajid javid, passed into law by parliament in february of this year, you could be going to fight for terrorism or against terrorism. you could be going as a journalist, you could be going as a journalist, you could be going on any other number
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of ways. but... you would have to prove that you were not there, fighting with terrorists. well, people have come back from fighting in northern syria, who have been fighting against terrorism, and they have been prosecuted. so, it seems to me, i think there are two possibilities, this is what i think. sajid javid is a muslim, he is super concerned about being seen as soft on islamic fundamentalism. the shamima begum case, part of that. so what he has done is brought in a mallet that hits everyone, good and bad. regardless of why they were there. the home office's view is that anyone fighting in terrorist areas or conflicts poses a threat to us areas or conflicts poses a threat to us all, and therefore, that is the reason for doing it, although, to be
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clear, syria is not a designated area. not yet. they would say there isa area. not yet. they would say there is a proper parliamentary process before any area is designated, and other countries have something similar, like australia, but that does not suffice in your view. no, because it is tarring everyone with the same brush. syria has not been officially designated as an area of conflict, which is governed by this law, but it will be. and, you have to look at what the uk government's concealed benefit is here, and it is clearly economic and political. turkey, which is bent on eradicating the kurdish in northern syria, because it regards them as an existential threat, is a huge market for british weapons. and they are also an ally of nato. i will read what the government has said in a moment but, before we leave you, can
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i ask, how do you remember your daughter every day? how do i remember her? i remember her as a woman of huge potential. she was willing to jump woman of huge potential. she was willing tojump in the deep end of life, wherever she found herself. and she was amassing a huge amount of experience and wisdom. and i was looking forward to meeting her and getting to know her as a mature, experienced, wiser woman, she had it in her to change the world, which, she has done, actually, by her death, it has had a ripple effect which has gone global stop she sounds like a remarkable woman. thank you very much indeed for joining woman. thank you very much indeed forjoining us and for sharing her diary. —— it has had a ripple effect which has gone global. she sounds like a remarkable woman, thank
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you very much forjoining us. ben wallace has told us, the government has consistently warned about travel to parts of the world where terrorist are active. the government has introduced a designated area fence which we will not hesitate to use, it will deter those who are considering travelling to places where terrorist are active and help us where terrorist are active and help us to deal with the challenges of prosecuting foreign fighters on their return to the uk. that comes from the security minister. next, knife crime in england and wales rose to record levels last year — but behind every shocking headline is the story of a young life that has gone badly wrong. —— next, knife crime in england and wales rose to record levels last year. but what is it that leads to children ending up
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with lives dominated by gangs, violence, prison and loss? we've spoken to two people — daniel and aliyah — who shared their deeply personal stories of growing up in london and how they became caught up in gang life. i saw things that people my age shouldn't see and i heard things that people my age shouldn't hear. by the time he turned around and saw me the knife was already out. i was going towards him, i was ready for it. i think i was holding on to my childhood as much as i could at ten years old but it was slowly slipping through my fingers. my childhood was kind of fueled by trauma, violence and abuse. i eventually got kicked out of school before i reached 13. forjust being an angry person. i was a looked after child and i was in care. i became an abuser, i became an abusive teenager, you know, because that was all i'd seen. with my dad, anything could lead to a beating. i very quickly became a bully. you want control, you want power, you want... you want kind of what's been taken away from you. from school to school was mainly units. i'd been to two mainstream schools, after that i was in units. what is a unit? a pupil referral unit, for kids that get kicked out of mainstream school. there was one behaviour mentor at my school, my secondary school,
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who i'll never forget. the support that they gave you was beyond what anyone could ask for. and she really did take the time to try and mentor me. the only thing is, i didn't recognize at the time. by then it was too far gone. i was taught the skills to kind of help guys and older men sell drugs. and then i eventually taught other girls the same skills. the person that i felt attracted to, she was heavily involved in gangs and the roads and stuff like that. and, you know, you want to captivate her, sort of thing. so you started to adopt certain mannerisms and personalities. so, you were 13, 14 years old. you were a child but you were also a drug dealer? yeah. were you in a gang? i had affiliations and
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connections to those gangs. but i never stood there and said, "yeah, i'm a part of this gang, this is who i am. i rep this area." never. i hate referring to groups of young people as gangs. but the reality of it is you are a gang. to the outside world, they're gang members, they're hoodrats, they're hoodlums, you know? to their close ones, like you said, they're friends, they're kids, they're children. if somebody just asked me at the age, because i looked young as well, you know, like, what i was doing, it maybe would have planted a seed. those right choices don't always come along so frequently. they're not always accessible. but the wrong one is always there, it always follows you. you can take that choice at any given moment. irememberseeing 20, 20—plus people kind of circling around the park, sort of thing. from that point then, you get that gut feeling. you know what's about to take place. hits me in the back of the head. next thing you know i'm out.
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few minutes later i'm waking up. the other boys that were there said, "0h, check yourself, check yourself. you've been stabbed. " about five times, i think it was? three times in the leg. one in each cheek on my bum, yeah. when you're involved in that lifestyle, there's consequences. you know, you hear all the time, you either end up dead or you end up injail. i was 17. and that's when the police officer came and explained to me that he's arresting me for assisting a murder, the possession of ammunition and possession of class a drugs with intent to supply. and at that moment ijust felt that my life was finished. and then i was on bailfor a year. i made another bad decision. we got in the car. and we went, we landed in colchester. five police cars on us, just swarmed all around us. and then that's when i knew, 0k, yeah, i'm going to jail this time because i was still on bail. i ended upjust being convicted for possession with intent to supply class a. the sentence? four years in prison.
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i was so angry with the cards that i'd been dealt and the way the system had failed me. and then the same system punished me. from when i was sitting in the hospital bed, getting ready to go home, it's already in my head. i walked around that area for the next near enough two weeks with a huge kitchen knife on my sleeve. everyone started to become my enemy. i'm looking at people and just thinking, you know, "we re you involved ? " so, i'm in this park now and these kids are kind of walking in the distance and you're saying to yourself, "you're going to murder someone." i was kind ofjust in a rage, pulled the knife out and he's kind of like running backwards, you know. and by the end of it, i kind ofjust stood there and he's ran off. it's almost like, you'd have done this to an innocent kid. i could always make people laugh and whatever, but my intentions and what really
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what was going on underneath, it wasn't nice. it was abusive and it was... it was self—destructive. a lot of it was discovering who i was, who am i? every time i smash something, every time i destroyed the house, or i'd wreck my bedroom, it was a reflection of how i felt inside. i didn't like myself, i didn't love myself. i was suffering from ptsd but nobody didn't explain to me what that was and what that looked like. one of my biggest struggles growing up was getting to sleep. from a young age, of being eight years old, wishing that i'd die in the morning, that i'm just not going to wake up anymore. started smoking weed, like, a lot, a lot. i started having nightmares. this is when the ptsd started coming back. it was understanding that these traumas, these things, these situations, they're always gonna be a huge part of my life. learning to love myself and forgive myself for the things that i did to myself has been the hardest thing ever.
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even down to the people that pulled the knife out and stabbed me, they are victims in their own right. they need helpjust as much as i need help. and if i could help them... well, this is what i'm trying to do. we planted all these seeds of destruction. so we have to take responsibility for that. we have to let the young people know that we're sorry and that this is not... we didn't know no better. now we know better, let us teach you better. deeply personal stories, they are, of two londoners. —— there.
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0besity now causes more cases of four common cancers than tobacco, according to the uk's leading cancer charity. and obese people now outnumber smokers by two to one. cancer research uk has been accused of "fat shaming" for its new billboard campaign, showing giant cigarette packets displaying the warning "obesity is a cause of cancer too". although smoking is still the biggest cause of cancer, each year in britain, the charity says, excess weight causes about 1,900 more cases of bowel cancer than smoking 1,400 more cases of kidney cancer, 460 more cases of ovarian cancer and 180 more cases of liver cancer and the charity is calling for urgent government action to end what it describes as an ‘epidemic‘. i'm joined by alison cox, cancer research uk's director of cancer prevention. are you cringing, bit of an own
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goal? not at all, we have tested the campaign carefully and it is clear that this is a really good way of getting the message across, people are getting the message across, people a re really getting the message across, people are really aware of smoking being a cause of cancer, way over 80% unprompted say, yes, smoking: cancer. but only 15% were aware of the risk between obesity and cancer, it isa the risk between obesity and cancer, it is a really important message, as we are saying today, it is the second biggest preventable cause of cancer after smoking and there has been a big increase in the obesity rates, while there has been a decline in smoking rates over the last 30 years. people have not changed, the environment has changed and that is what we want to talk about. you want the government to ta ke about. you want the government to take stronger action on obesity, such as...? take stronger action on obesity, such as. . . ? the first call is for a ban onjunk such as. . . ? the first call is for a ban on junk food advertising in the evenings, during family viewing time, already banned on children's programming because we know of the impact it has but there is a big
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loophole which allows junk food like pizza and suites to be shown on family viewing time, commercial channels. things like britain's got talent, football programmes. this is where many children and many families are being exposed to that kind of advertising. will it fall on deaf ears? we know we are in the middle of a leadership election at the moment and the frontrunner, borisjohnson, has the moment and the frontrunner, boris johnson, has come the moment and the frontrunner, borisjohnson, has come out today saying, he will look at this syntax and review the taxes on tobacco, alcohol and sugar, it does not sit well, does it. —— "sin tax." alcohol and sugar, it does not sit well, does it. -- "sin tax." the government has made a commitment to halving child obesity before 2030 and they have been very positive about the moves that can be made, this is a big problem and we need to change things. you do not find that thinking a bit of a problem, he says there is no evidence to show that these things actually change behaviours, and really you should be getting out there and walking and
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cycling, that is our potential prime minster‘s view. cycling, that is our potential prime minster's view. if i understand cycling, that is our potential prime minster's view. if! understand it, he wants to undertake a review of the evidence and we would welcome that, there is a great deal of evidence out there to support that. some people say the evidence is already there are. yes, and... why do you need a review? if it helps the resolve of the government and the resolve of the government and the treasury to get to grips and understand the impact that this could have, that is great, because we have lots of evidence about how tax and price has shifted tobacco consumption, really good evidence about price and alcohol consumption, and also evidence about what has happened with the sugary drinks industry tax, brought in in 2017. we have seen already that has been driving reformulation, companies, rather than pay tax, have taken sugar out of the drinks. before the tax came into false, over 90 million kilograms of sugar were taken out of the market. this is a really
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effective measure, and certainly we welcome a review of the evidence. effective measure, and certainly we welcome a review of the evidencem the meantime, what is the one message you have got to people who may be concerned by the stats we have seen today? obesity is a complicated issue, lots of things that cause obesity, what we want people to look at is the environment, this is not about individual blame, this is about blaming the environment we are in and what the government can do to shift that and help companies take a more responsible approach. may be we will talk again when we have a new prime minister and we will see what the government says then. for now, thank you very much forjoining us. lets see what the government has to say, in a statement the department of health has said, both smoking and obesity have devastating and preventable consequences for health, tough action from government has driven smoking rates down to an all—time low, and these figures make it clear that more than ever we must be ambitious in halving childhood obesity rates by 2030. boris
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johnson's comments, they said, "policies on obesity and public health have always been guided by evidence, and will continue to be in the future." the head of the civil aviation in kenyan has said they suspect the stowaway was an airport employee in nairobi, talking to the bbc exclusively, we were told that they are checking lists of airport employees to see if anyone is missing : i have not received fresh updates, i expect news today, as you know, this thing happened in the uk, the uk police and the other security forces are the ones dealing with it, but they will be sharing information as they receive it. many people asking, how could this happen? very good question, how is it that a person is able to go into the wheel well of an aeroplane, and therefore
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it isa well of an aeroplane, and therefore it is a bit ofa well of an aeroplane, and therefore it is a bit of a mystery. most likely had access to the airside. with the that security is, it is unlikely that an outsider would have been able to make his way through to the airside, been able to make his way through to the air side, the apron, and climb in. sol the air side, the apron, and climb in. so i am suspecting it is probably somebody who had access to the airsite, probably somebody who had access to the air site, but doing what, i'm not aware. this could very well be an airport employee? may maybe. this rarely happens, what is the protocol. how to make sure this does not happen in the first place? first of all there is security, all over the place, there are people who are watching the aircraft all the time. the pilots themselves, one of the crew, pilots, the first officer, they do a walk around the aeroplane,
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before the plane starts and goes, so when they are doing checks, even the pilots, they check every part of the aeroplane, including the undercarriage, the wheels, the tyre condition, the wheel well that is above them. they inspect everything. that was the head of the kenyan civil aviation talking to our reporter. that is it, from me. bbc newsroom live is coming up. whatever you are doing have a lovely day. lots of sunshine so far this morning across england and wales and is now seeing fairweather cumulus cloud building up in the sky, you can see from the satellite imagery, down towards the south—east, records of cloud developing, further north, more cloud across scotland, and in
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the far north of northern ireland, extra rain in the far north—west of scotland. elsewhere, sunny spells, pleasant and warm, and we have the sunshine, maximum temperature getting up to 18 to 20, maybe 23 degrees for england and wales, slightly fresher, cooler further north, 15 to 17 celsius. tonight, continuing with rain in the far north of scotland, elsewhere, clear spells, one or two mist patches developing into the early pa rt patches developing into the early part of thursday morning. temperatures down to seven to 12 degrees, quite a fresh start to thursday morning, more sunshine expected, warmer day, more cloud further north, still some rain across the far north—west of scotland, temperature 16 to 19 degrees.
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you're watching bbc newsroom live — it's11am and these are the main stories this morning: the baby son of a woman who was murdered in south london when she was eight months pregnant has died. police have released cctv footage of a man seen walking towards kelly fauvrelle's home before running away from the scene minutes later. 0besity causes more cases of bowel, kidney, ovarian and liver cancer than smoking, according to a leading charity. up to 40 migrants have been killed by an airstrike which hit a detention centre on the outskirts of tripoli, according to the un backed government in libya. video sharing app tik tok — promises to make changes to it's policies after a bbc investigation finds young people
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