the two contenders to be the next british prime minister clash in a head—to—head debate. brexit and the diplomatic row with the us were the hottest topics. anti—government protesters in hong kong threaten more mass rallies, saying they don't believe the controversial extradition bill is "dead." and this story is trending on bbc.com: it shows that on average, workers of chinese and indian heritage make more money than their white british counterparts.

now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. there are some humid experiences which most of us find very hard to get our heads around. my guest today experienced the unimaginable torment of more than four decades in solitary confinement in a tiny cell in one of america's most notorious prisons. a little bit wood fox was the victim of ingrained racism and brutality inside america's system of criminal justice. brutality inside america's system of criminaljustice. he is now a free man. but what does freedom really mean after everything he has been

through? a little bit wood fox, welcome to hardtalk. here you are, in london as a free man. but given everything you have been through, is it possible for you to ever feel truly free? yeah, i mean philosophically, mentally and emotionally i was free long before my physicalfreedom. and emotionally i was free long before my physical freedom. and so that was a part of my survival technique. it allowed me to survive being in solitary confinement for such a long period of time. i wonder in terms of, literally in terms of muscle memory, whether the way your body is, whether your muscles remember

for decades in shackles, whether you still have that feeling of being in an enclosed space, two x three metres or has that lift your body?” still have claustrophobic attacks occasionally. and i guess several times i wake up, because i am used to waking up and seeing bars and you wa ke to waking up and seeing bars and you wake up and you see a wall... for a brief moment i am disorientated. you had an awful long time to reflect on the course of your life and i want to ta ke the course of your life and i want to take you right back to near the beginning. growing up in louisiana asa beginning. growing up in louisiana as a young boy, you made choices and you made some very bad choices, i guess one could say now. looking back, why did you make those choices? i was a young

african—american kid growing up in the south of the united states. racism was latent, the opportunities from economic to political to social we re from economic to political to social were almost non—existent. and if you tonight access to society, if you are tonight opportunities, the instinct to survive is probably the strongest instinct we have. it was almost predestined that i would turn to petty crime to survive. i'd like to petty crime to survive. i'd like to read to you a little passage from your extraordinarily frank and honest book, solitary, where you talk about being a youth growing up. i robbed people, iscared talk about being a youth growing up. i robbed people, i scared them, threaten them, intimidated them. i stole from people who had almost nothing to they were my people,

black people. i broke into their homes and took their possessions. i was a chauvinist pig and i never thought about the pain i caused. yes. i made terrible choices. there are things that i did that i will never be able to forgive myself for. and i will spend the rest of my life trying to atone for those things. but i was not a criminal. i thought i had to do criminal things to survive. and later on in life, because of the influence ofjoining the lake panther party i began to understand how society functioned and understand how systemic application of racism, how that affected my life and as a member of the african—american community. affected my life and as a member of the african-american community. you talk about the black panthers and i guess it was inside the prison in

new york where you first really came face—to—face with black men who were committed members of the panther movement. where you already aware of them? were you already drawn to that ideology, a sort of extremely strong black power ideology or was it meeting these people that changed your head? there is a question as to whether the influence of the black panther party awaken something already in me or whether the influence of the black panther party raised my level of consciousness to where i began to understand the forces around me, i began to understand that there were certain policies from the government on down to white america that determined

pretty much the course of my life. the black panthers spoke a lot about justice and equality for black people in the united states after centuries of discrimination and slavery of course but post slavery the discrimination continued. there we re the discrimination continued. there were also some black panthers who we re were also some black panthers who were clearly explicitly committed to violence. were you part of the movement that believed that violence was justified or not? movement that believed that violence wasjustified or not? you know, like any organisation, the organisation has a goal, a perimeter in which they function. there will be people in the organisation who will not adhere to that. we had people like that in the party but overall... what about you ?

that in the party but overall... what about you? me, personally, that in the party but overall... whatabout you? me, personally, no. my whatabout you? me, personally, no. my experience in the party was in prison. the only recognised lack panther party chapter in a prison. soa panther party chapter in a prison. so a lot of stuff that happened with the party in society, we were not exposed. i take your point because, really, your active involvement with the black panthers was all behind bars which takes us to angola. that no tory is prison in louisiana where you ended up in 1971 when you walked through the gate into thatjail and you did not leave it for more than four decades. before we get to solitary, talk me through your first impressions of what has long been regarded as the most brutal and

perhaps most racist prison in the united states of america. that pretty much sums it up. angola had been designated by various social organisations, including government organisations, including government organisations as being the bloodiest and most violent prison in the united states at that time. almost every day prisoners either by security or by prisoner on prisoner crime, someone security or by prisoner on prisoner crime, someone was security or by prisoner on prisoner crime, someone was stabbed or murdered so that was the type of environment that you were forced to survive in. and it was segregated. yes. and the staff, from the governor on down but pretty much all of the staff were white. yes. is a matter of fact, in angola itself you

had about 300 personnel in charge of about five or 6000 prisoners. what was unique about angola is that it was unique about angola is that it was a former slave plantation. was unique about angola is that it was a former slave plantationm had been a plantation throughout the course of the slave period. and you still have families who work there, they would go back generation after generation. and you, the black prisoners, were put to work in the fields. mostly. yes. there were a few janitorial fields. mostly. yes. there were a fewjanitorialjobs. most of the plum jobs went to the white prisoners. let's get to 1972. the murder of a young white prison guard. did you do it? no. there is such an abundance of physical evidence that clearly... you know,

really says i was not involved in this murder. physical evidence, they found a bloodied fingerprint. there was cloud on the door. they never pursued beyond blaming it on me and the other guys who were charged. they did not match any of the people who work crime scene. so it raises the obvious question, why were you targeted by the authorities? the prison staff, administrative and security, they were aware that harman andi security, they were aware that harman and i were members of the black panthers. harman wallace, your friend, a fellow black panther. and you were explicit in the prison. you organised other prisoners. you formed an antirape squad to try and control the sexual assault and abuse inside your wind of the prison. so you were not hiding your black

panther loyalty. no. and to be honest with lasted longer than we thought because there was an internal conflict in the department of corrections so mist miller was murdered in that environment. so you are convicted of a crime that you insist, always insisted you simply did not commit. but the fact is you will hold off to that special part of the prison for the solitary confinement prisoners. and life in a cell of two metres by three metres began. and i think everyone watching and listening to this will not be able to get their head around what you then experienced for 43 years and ten months. so try and capture it for me. well, it's kind of hard

to find words to imagine how horrible being confined to that cell is. the space itself is much smaller because you have metal beds attached to the wall that take up a great pa rt to the wall that take up a great part of the cell. a metal table and chairon part of the cell. a metal table and chair on the other wall and a toilet bowl, as in combination in back so you have a narrow path in which to manoeuvre up and you have a narrow path in which to manoeuvre up and down the cell. so although the sellers six feet wide and nine feet long, the actual space is much smaller. try to stand in your bedroom for 23 bedroom —— hours. go back draw a box, nine feet by six feet and staying there for 23 hours. multiply that 1 by six feet and staying there for 23 hours. multiply that1 million times. to add to that, you know

there was nothing you can do to change the situation. and add to that the attitude and behaviour of the guards who are responsible for you. that was a huge element in the, let's use the word, torture that was imposed upon you. now they refer to them as correction officers but at that time they were known as free men. and you add to that you had an inmate guard system and the skies we re inmate guard system and the skies were brutal. what you mean by brutal? they used physical violence against other prisoners. they beat them, they gassed them, they had the same power and authority as the freeman who work there. and they've

never hesitated to use the power they had. ifi may never hesitated to use the power they had. if i may say so, if you has said since, you and herman, your friend who was locked up in solitary in the same place as you, me and herman, we did not put up with all the racist comments. if they talked trash to us, we talked trash back to them just as bad. iforced myself to learn how to not give into fear. i would not let fear rule me. as a result, you got the pain and the brutality even worse. we were seeing a lot. they cold us troublemakers and ringleaders. and had no idea of the political foundation or the philosophy, what motivated us to

fight against injustice and inhumanity. a horrible physical condition, the lack of clothing, lack of adequate food. if i asked you right now, looking back, what was the worst, the thing that really got closest to breaking you? that would be my mother ‘s death. 0ther than that, other than that, i never came close to being broken. when i lost my mom in 1994 to cancer there was a policy for going home for the funeral and in african—american families it is important to say that final goodbye. it usually occurs at the wake of the funeral. but because they had singled me out as a troublemaker, i was tonight that. so

i had to carry that burden for 20 odd years. fortunately before my mother passed away my life changed tremendously. a change from criminal to political and social activist had occurred and i was in the process of educating and re— educating myself to try and raise my level of conscience and so i was able to thank herfor the conscience and so i was able to thank her for the things that she values and what she tried to instill in me and to tell her she was my first hero. you did an awful lot of reading in prison and became something of a legal expert. you looked at so many legal books. you launched so many appeals and you did, actually, deliver change to the prison regime while you were there. and thanks also to people working outside on your behalf, various

appeals against the conviction and, finally, in 2016 you did not get the exoneration you are looking for but you got the offer of a plea deal. and alpha please. a plea does not admit guilt but it admits that the state has enough evidence to renew to trial. you had always said i will walk out of here when i am declared an innocent man sitting and you will not. were not. i still have problems with that. there are times when i feel very angry and there are times when i am disappointed that i took the plea deal because for my whole life i taught men to fight, to stand for what was right and, you know, i tried to do it by notjust words but example. so in the final analysis,

you know, i accepted a plea deal. and there were many factors involved but i think the one factor is a conversation i had with my brother. he said that he was visiting with my daughter and she broke down crying i asked what was wrong and she said i don't have a damp. so you have a damp and he has accomplished things in the prison system and she said no, i don't know what it is for him to hold me in this arms. and that was kind of the tipping point of the mental and emotional battle i was waiting with myself. and you do have

that now. you can hug your daughter and your grandchildren and your great greats. you can do all that. but you were released and now live asa but you were released and now live as a free man in a united states of america where there is still clear racial injustice at the heart of the criminal justice system. racial injustice at the heart of the criminaljustice system. one only has to look at the statistics on rates of incarceration, one only has to look at what happens to too many young black people, particularly young black people, particularly young black people, particularly young black men in their experiences with the police in different parts of your country. how does that make you feel after everything you have been through? when i was released from prison it took me about three weeks of being in society to realise there was change. so nothing had

changed? racism was still part of the very fibre of american society. and the brutality of racism had not changed in its application. it had just changed in... but i am mindful that you walked out in the year that barack 0bama that you walked out in the year that ba rack 0bama served that you walked out in the year that barack 0bama served his last year as president of the united states of america, the first black man to hold that position. can you tell me that nothing had changed in 44 years? technology. i was in prison when president 0bama was elected. my reality was that nothing had changed. this is one man, we have a culture of racism and bigotry and white supremacy that goes back to the founding of america. and one man cannot just change that the founding of america. and one man cannotjust change that in eight yea rs. cannotjust change that in eight years. is a long period of time. will it change? i wonder what you

say to your children and. you speak great—grandchildren as a man who all those years ago committed to the black panther movement to achieve what you regarded as justice for black people in america. how do you think your grandchildren and great—grandchildren should carry out that struggle? if you still see it asa that struggle? if you still see it as a struggle. i think it's a social struggle. as a matter of fact it is one of the personal motivators for me. i don't want my great grandkids 30 years from now to be sitting here being interviewed on a stage talking to people about racism and institutional racism and systemic application of racism. as martin luther king said, i would rather that to be a society that has evolved to the point where they are driven by content of character not

the colour of their skin or their ethnicity or physical features. let me ask you this. a different sort of question but the same thing, are you proud of your country today? my country, yes. my government, no. and a last thought, and ifind this remarkable about you and the strength of your mind, you say that when you consider everything that had happened to you in your life, andi had happened to you in your life, and i mean everything, you say i would not change one thing. all they went through made me the man i am today. do you really mean that? that you would not, on reflection, take different decisions that would have avoided those 44 years in solitary confinement? no. no i would not change a thing. because for one thing, i'd didn't just

change a thing. because for one thing, i'd didn'tjust survive solitary confinement, i prospered as a human being to i develop personal values and a code of conduct. i self educated myself. all the things that society had denied me as a human being i was able to provide myself ina being i was able to provide myself in a hostile and isolating environment. so, noted i wouldn't change anything. as painful as it has been as brutal as it has been the beatings, the gassing is, forced to drink out of the toilet because they turn the water off... all the things i went through they helped build me and shape the man i am today and my mum used to always tell

me to always be proud of what you look at in the mirror. and so far i think the way i have conducted myself on the way i have transformed myself on the way i have transformed myself and the way i have evolved, i am proud of what looks back at me. albert woodfox, it has been a pleasure to talk to you. thank you for being on hardtalk. the forecast brings us mixed fare across the uk in the next few days. sunny spells for almost all areas andi sunny spells for almost all areas and i think, if anything, increasing

war. lookout for hefty showers as well especially across the northern half of the uk. low pressure is driving the weather here and we will swing in some fronts as well which means more organised bands of rain. for wimbledon, with high pressure sitting to the south of the uk we are clinging on to a fine picture for wednesday, perhaps a risk of a shower later in the afternoon. you can see some of those showers target little further south at times through the day but southern england and south wales, very likely to stick with a dry picture although heavy showers across eastern england cannot be ruled out through the afternoon. scotland gets the wettest of the weather first thing, brighter through the afternoon, thunderstorms likely in the north—east later and northern ireland these persistent rain arriving as we move into the latter pa rt rain arriving as we move into the latter part of the day. just light wind and that is a complication where you get heavy showers developing with nothing to dry them on so round for can mount up. clear evening into the south and east but

the showers pile into south wales rolling through northern ireland and head to scotland. 0vernight lows ta ke head to scotland. 0vernight lows take us into thursday 12—14just about covers it. for thursday daytime we are still under the influence of high—pressure are some of those more organised bands of showers and perhaps a greater risk of seeing some heavy showers across the eastern side of the uk on thursday particularly for eastern scotla nd thursday particularly for eastern scotland where signs are that there could be some intense understands. again to the far south, things are looking clearer with less and spells of sunshine. and then for the end of the week, things are starting to come down. a few showers possible for northern ireland, again the chance of heavy ones across eastern england, perhaps the easter scotland with a rumble of thunder. in the sunshine, temperatures start to lift, 23, 24. through the weekend that looks to be the case because

the reason things are coming down on friday is that high—pressure is beginning to build from the west spreading across the uk to take us through the weekend. i cannot promise you faultless blue skies but ican promise you faultless blue skies but i can promise you a much quieter couple of days with very, very few showers, perhaps a couple in the east on saturday and in the west on sunday. sunshine and temperatures into the mid—20s.

welcome to newsday. i'm kasia madera, in london. the headlines: the two contenders to be british prime minister face each other in a head—to—head debate, clashing over brexit and trump. protestors in hong kong threaten more mass rallies, saying a new concession on the extradition bill doesn't go far enough. i'm rico hizon, in singapore. also in the programme: no let up in the diplomatic row between the us and uk as donald trump calls the british ambassador to washington "a very stupid guy". welcome to the bbc. i am erica... and meet the robot who could be bringing you the news